Lessons in Resilience & Joy with Moshe Gersht

Foreign Hi, I'm Susan Drumm and welcome to the Enlightened Executive, where your personal evolution sparks your leadership evolution. Each episode we feature groundbreaking techniques and strategies to help you get the edge in personal and leadership effectiveness. This episode is brought to you by Meritage Leadership. At Meritage, we strengthen leaders and empower teams to achieve high performance. Go to meritageleadership.com to learn more. Are you curious about your own development path to enlightened leadership? Take our free 5 minute quiz@susandrum.com to discover your superpower and the roadblocks that could get in your way of effective leadership. Today we're focusing on spirituality and the path to joy. And I am pleased to introduce my guest, Moshe Gerst. Moshe is a spiritual teacher, a Wall Street Journal best selling author of the book it's all the Same to Me. He's devoted his life to seamlessly bridging the worlds of the Torah tradition, mystical wisdom, and the true nature of the human spirit. His popular TEDx talk has reached over 1 million views and has become the catalyst for his most recent book, the three how intention, joy and certainty will supercharge your life. Moshe's life mission is to assist the awakening of the world to a higher consciousness. And he lives in Israel with his wife and children. So welcome Moshe.

Thank you so much, Susan. Such a pleasure to be here.

Well, I'm thrilled you're here and thank you for joining us from Israel. We were just checking in to see how you were doing over there and I know these are very uncertain times.

Yeah, you know, this is. We live in a world where things are in constant flux and today's no different. So we try to stay rooted and centered despite the chaos and the noise on the outside.

Yes, yes. And that is the only thing we ultimately have control over is how do we want to respond in any given situation and also what do we need to do to find inner peace in a world of turmoil. So tell me a little bit about your TEDx talk. I watched it and the title is Two Conditions to Unconditional Happiness. Tell me a bit about, in your own words, what those two conditions are.

Thank you for the question. To oversimplify, which is, I think really important in a world where there's so much information and we're constantly being bombarded with another idea and another idea. Well, let's start with the answer. The answer is unconditional happiness. That was what the goal of these two conditions were. And how you get there is by one reconnecting to the truth of who you are and Two, opening up to the truth of what life is. Or in other words, if you can reconnect with your innate goodness. Because we have so many thoughts that block us from what we're already good at or already great at, and then do the same thing with the world that we live in, instead of focusing on all the things that are going wrong, but to realize the goodness of the world, the opportunity that this world presents us. So the goodness of self and the goodness of the world, and drop all the judgments that keep us from it. All you're left with is the sense of reality that's right in front of you, which is beautiful and good. And you can measure that by the level of joy that you experience, meaning.

How well you're doing at those two conditions.

Right? Meaning if you're not feeling good in this moment, you can actually check in right now and say, well, what's really bothering me? Is it something about myself or is it something about my life? Meaning, am I not good right now or is my life not good right now? And sometimes it's both. But if you're not. If you're not feeling good in this moment, if you're not at peace with your reality right now, it's only one. There's only two things in this world. There's how you see yourself and how you see everything else.

Great. So let's take each of those for a moment. Let's say someone wakes up and it's the first condition that's the issue. They're not liking themselves. Where do they go from there?

I mean, if they can identify that right away, that's already a great start. I think most people are going through life and they're not even awake yet to the notion of what's actually bothering them, what's behind the behind. Right? So we're usually frustrated with something that's either going on at work or something in our relationships, something in our health, something in our bank account. There are things that are going on in the world that make us feel not good enough, either within ourselves or our life. But let's say you do get to the point where you realize it's because I'm not seeing myself as good enough in one of these areas. So first and foremost, just having that awareness is you're halfway there. For, for those who have any mindfulness practice, if you've spent any time trying to cultivate the witnessing process of self where you can see those thoughts, that creates a barrier, right? There's now a dissociation. You're not so identified with that part of you, and that creates some space. But the part that comes afterwards is then not judging yourself for feeling that way. And that's really where I think a lot of us take a left turn into this kind of spiral down of. Because I'm not good enough at this. And then I think about the fact that now I always do this. I always beat up on myself. I'm never getting to the other side. And then it's like when you start off the day and you stub your toe and the day continues to flow with. Then you spill your coffee and then you're late, or then your jacket gets caught in the door and we build this momentum. So the greatest thing a person can do is recognize that and flip the script right in the beginning. Changing the narrative of recognizing that's okay. I do have those thoughts because I'm a normal human being who has judgmental thoughts. But that's not who I am because I'm okay.

Yes. Continually going back to. That's just a thought pattern that I've adopted right now. That's all it is. And it's not actually the truth of who you are. Who you are is so much bigger, so much grander than this one thought that you've latched onto and maybe are playing, as I say, in a playlist over and over. And it's just a pattern that you've developed over. Over time. Or maybe it's new. It could be either one. But it doesn't have to stick with you if. Unless you keep feeding it more energy or unless you really give it the power to believe that it's true.

Yeah. And, you know, we. The actions that we take as a result of those thoughts, that's really where it gets us to. To. It forces us into this awakening. As somebody who, you know, I spent seven years before I got into the philosophy and spiritual understanding. I spent seven years as the lead singer of a rock band. Like, that was my life. Singer, songwriter, signed to a record label, radio, mtv. That. That space. And I don't know how often I speak about it, but there was a time towards the end, as things were kind of like getting bigger, where I had this, like, really deep. You call it perfectionism. Like really just the need and the desire to want to be perceived and seen a certain way that I was not just good enough, but I wanted to be great and I wanted to be on stage and I wanted people to see me for the rock star that I wanted to be, whatever that was. And sometimes it would be a little bit of nerves. And then sometimes it would be like some heavier stage fright. And then there was a certain point where I started getting anxious before I would get on stage. And that led often to drinking before going on stage because I didn't want to have those feelings. And so it took a while before you realized that the patterns in your life, your behaviors, are connected to the emotions which were connected to the thoughts, which were connected to a belief at the very fundamental level, which was, am I okay or not? Am I good or not? Like, that's. That's the fundamental piece. And we all do this in our lives. We all have these patterns where it's really not the thing on the outside and it's not even the feeling and it's not even the thought. It's some fundamental belief that we're still living with that perpetuates the whole cycle.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And in the work and what we do in leadership development is how people uncover these patterns. Right. That this pattern is all stemming from a root belief. And it's usually based on an I am statement. I am not good enough. I am, you know, not safe. I am treated unfairly, whatever that may be. That root belief causes a whole slew of behaviors further downstream that you may not even recognize. But if you can pause and really kind of keep digging into what is really driving this to begin with, and good for you for having that awareness that what's causing the drinking, and let me work my way backwards to see what's. What's really going on. And then I also heard in that. Looking for the outside world to show you if you're okay. Right? Because that's why you wanted to have greatness. Because if they validate that, then. Then my. My fear is unfounded. I am truly great. But in doing that, you give your power away.

That's exactly right. And in some way, that really led to the dis. The dissolving of the band. Kind of the ending of that dream came when somebody asked me how long I wanted to play music for, and I said something to the effect of, I guess we'll play until we're successful, and then I want to settle down. I always pictured myself as like a family man. And they said, when's that? I said, when's what? They said, when. Success. And at the time, I told him to grab another drink because he was ruining my buzz. And I was having. I was having a good. It was a good party. It was a record party. But I thought about that a lot afterwards, which was, well, when is that? When is success. And I think that we're all driven by this idea of success, and we have different definitions of what that might mean, but it's always this thing in the future that we're trying to move towards. And as I sat and I spent the next couple months meditating on this, researching the idea behind what that would mean to me, part of my conclusion was you could be successful at what you do and still fail at life. You know, the. The things that we do are. Are potent and powerful and good, and it's a wonderful part of this human experience. But who you are and how you experience what you're doing first and foremost is that's actually the life you're living. And more than that, those who experience life at that higher frequency, they tend to produce more, better, deeper, quality work. So everything was really an inside job, and that's really what sent the shift in this new direction.

Yes, absolutely. And certainly I've seen leaders that have the outward trappings of success, but do not ultimately feel success as a human being inside. And it's, let me just get a little bit more. Let me. Let me achieve that next promotion. Let me just be. Move from, you know, CFO to CEO, and then. And then things will get better. And, you know, ultimately, not a game of accumulation in wealth, but also in accolades in recognition, because there will never be enough if you feel there's a lack.

You know, at some point along the way, I came to the. To the notion that to the ego I am, that I have meaning I am in as much as I have something, whatever, achievements, accolades, everything you said. But to the soul or to the higher self, it's. I have in that I am right. The more I am, the more I'm connected to the root of my being, which is really just the state of letting go of all the judgments and expectations that we have. I was recently with Gary Vaynerchuk in New York for his podcast, and then we did a conference. I was at the conference that he put on in la, and one of the things that I was thinking a lot about was what has been really helpful for me in whatever little bits of successes that I've been able to taste along the way. And one of them is realizing that my. My mother really, both my parents, but my mother really instilled in me this idea that, you know, have no expectations and live in. In deep gratitude. Like if you. If you can mitigate your expectation and raise your level of gratitude. And it wasn't something. I mean, it was spoken, but it was almost an unspoken. This is just how we're living our life in our home. It's. It's been so helpful because what that sets up for. It's what it's done for me and what I see it do for others is it sets up this idea that you can't lose. And I think that we're. We're in this battle with life sometimes where we feel like it's a win lose. Like, sometimes I'm winning and sometimes I'm losing. But when you recognize that you can't lose, I mean, first of all, we won the cosmic lottery. The fact that we're sitting here, right, like you. You made it, and here we are, and. And you made it on a rock that's floating through space, that happens to have gravity, that happens to have an atmosphere. And there's all these great things. There's good food and there's good people, and there's these beautiful sights, and there's. Just everything works. Like, the fact is, your body functions. Functions. Like, look around like, we're in the middle of nowhere in space, and here we are having this incredible human experience, which is unbelievable. Whether you're a spiritual person or not, this thing's amazing. And so. So, like, the starting point is you won. And everything else is an illusion of the mind. So, like, we try to develop that, and we're. I guess we're not at the end of human history yet. So there's a lot more for us to do as a collective, but as an individual, we can lean into that and every. It's either working for you on the surface or it's an opportunity to grow inside.

Absolutely, absolutely. So let's get to that second piece, which is the second condition and what you believe about the universe. And where do people go awry there?

Well, I can certainly speak for myself and from probably the majority of the clients that I meet with, there is this feeling that when we go awry, when we take the circumstances of our life or the situation of our life as an indication that things are bad, we have now judged the situation as bad. It doesn't mean that things aren't challenging, aren't tough. And some things are. You know, some things are bad. Those things do happen, but not in the holistic or even in. In the broad, expansive sense of the world. Meaning everything is moving towards something. It's our judgment and our labeling on reality that actually makes us experience reality the way that it is correct. People think that certainty means certain that things will turn out a certain way, which is not what Certainty means at all. I don't mean that it's nice. That's more like conviction to me. If you have conviction that something will work out a certain way, that's a beautiful trait to have, but it doesn't always turn out that way. When I say certainty or the belief in the universe that things are good, what I mean to say is an openness to anything that happens as being part of a progressive evolution for yourself and for the world, meaning things are moving in the right direction. And all you need is an open heart and an open mind to look for the opportunities that are laden within. To see how this might be a reminder for something in my own life of how I can grow and be better. To see how something might be leading myself or my company or my family or the world in a direction that was new, that I might not have taken otherwise. It's our labeling of it that kind of cuts off the potential energy flow that this might have led to. So keeping an open mind is really right there at the, at the source of being able to walk through life. And it's more like. It's less walking, it's more like surfing. Like, I don't know if you surf or snowboard. Like for me, I grew up in la, so, you know, surfing in the morning and it was snowboarding in the afternoon.

Yeah, yeah.

And. And you learn to, you know, you connect with the mountain or you connect with the waves in a way. And it's not linear like this. It's a, it's a flow. And you're flowing and you're curving in and out. And that's how we're, we're, we're moving through life in this flow. And it doesn't all feel good, but the perspective is one that everything can help lead me, my family, my company, the world in a direction if I keep my mind open.

I love that mindset. In fact, would you share that powerful story that you told in the TEDx talk about how you ended up with a record manager?

Yeah, actually, that. It is a great story. We were down to our last, I think we had for the band. We had $400 left in the bank. And I was in a coffee shop one day and a guy came over and he, I guess he knew us from somewhere. Somebody connected us. And he sat down and said, hi, my name is so. And so this was about a month before the Grammys. And he said, I can get you a gig playing an after party for the Grammys. And when you're 18 and you're excited, and you'll take anything. And we said, great. What do we have to do? He said, it'll cost you 400 dol. Uh. And I probably should have known at that moment that it was a scam, because anybody who's in a coffee shop telling you he's going to get you a Grammy after party for $400 is probably just taking your money. But we were desperate and excited. We paid him, and we got a phone call a week later saying, here's the address. It's in Beverly Hills. Like, it's going to be amazing. All these record executives are going to be there. It's going to be the talk of the town. We're excited, we're practicing. Everything's going great. And we. We drive to the address, and it wasn't in Beverly Hills. It was in Beverly Wood, which is adjacent. Okay, it wasn't too far away, but it was a nice, humble little home. And we knock on the door and we were. We're all holding our equipment, and it is this guy sitting in his boxers on the couch watching the Grammys. And at this moment, my band members look like they want to kill me because I'm the one who pushed for it. I'm like, no, we got to trust this guy. Have a feeling about him. I have a feeling about this event. This feeling is not working out.

Yeah.

And I said, no, let's just give it a shot. And somebody walks us into the back, through the house, and they said, you can set up your gear here. And there was this garage, and we set up our stuff, and they look like they want to kill me. This was not good. And maybe five or six more people showed up to this party, which wasn't a party. It was a group of people drinking some beers on the couch, watching the Grammys. We were about to leave, and at some point, the door opens up, and I see these three individuals walk in. Two men and a young woman. And they were all wearing these Grammy passes like they were at the Grammys. And I guess they had also gotten duped into coming to this Grammy after party. And I walk over and introduce myself, and they didn't seem all that interested, but they were. They were the president and CEO of a record label. And one of the artists on the label who had come to hang out and do some networking, they were sitting down waiting for somebody to play. We were waiting for people to show up. Nobody else was coming. So somebody said, why don't you just play some songs? And we. We ended up playing a track for them. They seemed interested. They were like, do you have any more like that? So we played another song. They said, do you have any more like that? We said, well, yeah, we've got tons of songs like this. So he gave me his card and he said, look, my name is Vincent Petetti. I'm the CEO of Shelter from the Storm Records. We'd love to have a proper showcase with you in a real venue. Maybe we can set that up for you next week. Which we did. And right after that venue, they were like, we want to give you a contract. Do you guys want to go to Japan? And this was it all. It all came from this place of. It looked really bad and we could have left at any moment. And it re. And if. If we didn't stick around to that, like, very, very end bit where they were about to leave, my band members wanted to go. That. That record contract never happens, right?

Yeah.

And how many times do we walk away from something and we never know the potential that might have been on the other side had we stuck around five more minutes or one more day, whatever it is, just to see maybe there is a little bit of light there. And by. Maybe that doesn't end up happening. Maybe in this there's a different version of that story where we don't sign a record deal. But in the perspective, I feel good in the whole process. And so you both get the opportunity to feel good in your life and to go for the things you're excited about and be passionate about and not be bothered by life when life seems to go the other way.

Now, how would one contrast that, the hanging in the resilience with when, you know, it's actually time to say goodbye or cut bait or listen to the other side of the coin that says the best thing could be to leave.

So there's a great line in the Talmud that says the immature destroy when they build and the mature build when they destroy. Right? Meaning those that have a narrow or small mindset, they stay in something destructive because they say, I've already been in this for five years, so how could I walk away? So I want to stay in. But there's a mature perspective where we go through life and we say, okay, there's a time where this ends. And I did stick it out, I did stick around, I did wait and I looked. And I've learned a lot of lessons. It could be, for me, the easiest. I can only speak from my own experience, which is the times that's always resonated the deepest is when I trust myself. There's like an intuitive knowing at some point when something's over, when it's finished, and you know, when you're pushing beyond when it's over. If you're. If you're even a little bit sensitive, if you're a little bit open to the fact that, you know. I can't tell you how many people I sit with who are either in relationships or businesses, and they tell me, I really knew last year. I really knew six months ago. Yeah, I really knew. And they know the point when they knew, right?

Yes. Yes.

And it's. It's not trusting ourselves when we already know what the answer is. And there's a time to walk away from things the same way that I walked away from the band. The same way that, you know, we. We've all walked away from things in our life.

Yes, yes. But again, it goes back to trusting that inner knowing and getting quiet in order to get that clarity versus looking for the outside world to give you that clarity.

Yeah, it's all inside. The whole world's an inside job. Yes. Yes.

Well, tell me a little bit about the book, because now you move to three conditions of life. What is the. Are these different conditions than the first two or how do you describe the third?

So thank you for the question. The three conditions are really the fullness of the TED talk, meaning the TED talk was the two conditions to unconditional happiness. Which is the third condition? Is. Is this joy what we're called?

Yeah.

What are the conditions for? They're what we're calling a supercharged life. That's that. What is a supercharged life? And the subtitle of the book is Intention, Joy, and Certainty. I was looking for words that captured the whole condition in singular words that I can just point to. So simply intention, I don't mean like. Like your motivation for something. I mean more like your sole intention for life. Like, what am I doing here? Who. Who am I in this human experience? And the way that we tap into the world of intention is, again, by recognizing our innate goodness and our power in this world. What are we here to do? Contribute. Create in this life? And do I know that regardless of my doing, my being is always pur. Good. The second condition is certainty. Certainty is, like I mentioned before, it's more like not certain of a particular outcome, but certain of a particular process, that things are always potentially working out, that things are always moving in a good direction. And I can make lemon out of lemonades. I can turn. I have the power to look at life and not have Life, tell me what's happening. And to judge things as being good or bad, lowercase, but that everything's capital G good. Because there's a. There's an underlying guidance and direction to life, if you're open to it, if you can. If you can continue looking. I was once walking with my daughter and I found some money on the floor and I picked up the money and my daughter is really big on saving right now. Anyway, I picked up the, the money and she said, oh man, how did you see that? I walked right past it and I said to her something to the effect of, you know, in life, it's not that some people are lucky, it's that some people looking and we have this perspective that those are the lucky ones. Right. When, when we live in a world where life is doing it to me, like I'm. I'm getting done by life, so we don't really exist. But if you stay open, that's when you realize that you might be getting done by life, but it's happening for you, not to you. Right. It's. It's all in a deeper alignment. So that's certainty.

Yeah. One thing I just want to say that I love, you know, that mindset that everything is working out for me. I. I created a playlist just of music that had me be in that resonance. Right. That, that emotional vibration of everything is always working out for me. And there are great, great songs that help me get to that, that space. So I just want to encourage listeners to leverage music in this way to be able to put you and practicing the belief set that you need to be in. And this is the mental one around certainty. I like how you call it certainty because it's not expecting that I'm going to control life and that way I get certainty. It's the certainty that the universe is conspiring on your behalf, even when it can feel like it's not.

That's right. That's exactly right. It's. It's always that way. That is the certainty. It never stopped being on your side. There's another line in the Talmud that speaks to me deeply where it says every person has to be able to say the following thing to themselves. That the world was created for me, not in a. In an ego sense, but in a way that recognizes that the whole world is there and you're at the center. You're the hero of your story and the main character that things are showing up for you. You get to co. Create your life. You're. You are the writer of the script.

Yes, yes. Now tell us about the third.

And so the third is this space, what, what we're calling unconditional happiness. But in the book I'm calling it joy. And the reason I love the word joy because I think it points to something more than just the, the happiness we gain from something happening. Sounds like something outside of me. This happened and now I'm happy. I achieved this and now I'm happy. Whereas joy is something more essential, internal, innate to who we are when we're not caught up really. The word I feel most connected to around joy is love. It's like a love for life, a love for self, a love for all that is. And it is beautiful and it's deep and it's, it's almost transcendent. It's beyond emotion. It's just joy and it's infectious. And people, when you come in contact with someone who has that, you're lifted up. And when you have that, you lift people up, you are an energy magnet. And so we look to that as a measuring stick. Like, it's like a barometer. Like, do I feel this in my life right now? It doesn't have to be in this moment, but if I looked at my last week, how much joy am I experiencing? If I looked at the last month, how much joy is in my life? The reason why it's important and why it's a supercharged is because if you are feeling that, you might notice that the rest of your life is also going well. It's not just that you feel good, it's that your, your lens on life is aligned. It's, you're in tune, Things are, are very clear. And you can see in the book the three conditions I talk about. How if, if you can get to this place where you're seeing yourself and life in an open, non judgmental, enlightened way and you're experiencing that joy inside. Imagine that as a tree. Every tree has branches. Branches as an acronym. B, R, A, N, C, H. Those are the things that are the outgrowths of living. With this kind of tree of life perspective. It's going to impact your behaviors. You're going to see it showing up in your relationships. All the things that you attract into your life. It negates your sense of ego. You become a channel for insight and creativity and you become a beacon of health and healing for yourself and others. Everything is, that's what I mean by supercharged. Everything is elevated in that space. And it wasn't anything you did. It was by merely accepting who you are, you're. It's. It's more of the being than on the human side of self. And when you get to that place, your life is alive. You are awake to the truth of who you are and what life is. And you become a conduit and a channel for everything to move positively in your life.

Yes, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing this. What's one thing that leaders could do tomorrow that would help open up the pathways for the supercharged life that you.

Have described, if you don't already have a meditation practice? I think the one thing that I have done with every client I've ever met with is find a way to help get them a meditation practice that works for them. There's so many different versions of meditation, many different modalities. A lot of times people try one and it doesn't fit. Try another. Keep trying. Find a place where you can get some space. If you get a little space, you get a little perspective. When you get a little perspective, you get a little bit more peace in life, in your life. When you have have that, things start moving in a beautiful direction.

Fantastic. I love it. Where can people learn more about you and your work?

I think everything is right there on the site. Moshe gersh.com but pretty active on socials. Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter. We're in all the socials, all of them with the same handle at Moshe Gersht. And all the books are on Amazon.

Well, thank you so much, Moshe. Really excited to have you here today. What a wonderful conversation to have with you. And if you like this episode, you're not going to want to miss my interview with Rachel Druckenmiller, who teaches us how to unleash confidence, courage and passion. So we are more engaged and fulfilled at life and work. Let's all lead the way. Hope you enjoyed today's episode and I'd like to point you to the next important step. Hit the subscribe button to get notified when we release new content. I'll see you on the next episode of the Enlightened Executive.

That.