The Leader’s Playlist: Entrepreneur Susan Drumm on the Transformational Power of Music to Disrupt Patterns, Forge New Pathways, and Unlock Your Superpowers

Coming up on Wings of Inspired Business.

I'm not saying that you won't ever feel frustration or fear or doubt. Those are normal, healthy emotions and you would not be human if you didn't experience them. The key is, are you getting trapped by them? What I say is sort of a recurring playlist, like that recurring song that keeps getting stuck in your head that you're like, oh my God, if I hear that song one more time, I'm gonna go crazy. I've got lots of different ways of shifting patterns, but music has an impact on the brain such that you can both interrupt that old pattern. And all that is is a neural pathway that's been grooved in so many times, I call it like an eight lane highway to hell. And shift that by using music to develop new neural pathways that allow you to make change happen faster. Because of music's impact on the brain.

We all have a playlist running in the background of our minds as we travel along life's highways. Sort of an invisible GPS steering us and perhaps stalling us on our path to success. Leadership expert Susan Drum says music is one of the most effective ways to help us change course and get out of any ruts or cul de sacs that slow or prevent our success as effective leaders. Today we get practical with tips to grow our leadership and entrepreneurial skills. Whether attracting that perfect team, learning to trust your team, or stepping into your own personal empowerment. Hi, I'm Melinda Wittstock. Welcome to Wings of Inspired Business where we share the inspiring entrepreneurial journeys, epiphanies and practical advice from successful female founders. So you have everything you need at your fingertips to build the business and life of your dreams. I'm all about paying it forward as a five time serial entrepreneur. So this podcast is all about catalyzing an ecosystem where women entrepreneurs mentor, promote, buy from and invest in each other. Because together we're stronger and we all soar higher when we fly together, lifting as we climb. Today we meet an inspiring entrepreneur who is a renowned leadership coach. She works with billionaires, executive teams and founders across startups, private equity firms and large corporations like Oracle, Viacom, kpmg, AE Networks, Genentech and many others. Susan Drumm is the CEO and founder of Meritage Leadership and host of the podcast the Enlightened Executive. Today, Susan opens up about her own journey. Using music to let go of limiting beliefs and stepping into her superpowers to succeed in business and how her concept of a leader's playlist can interrupt old patterns, create new neural pathways, and shift our state of being. She also shares other tools in her toolkit, including the Enneagram and how it helps executives get clarity on these questions and shift to a higher level of performance. She'll share why this tool is far more powerful than traditional tools such as DISC or MBTI for leadership growth and how it's particularly impactful for you in unlocking team performance. Susan will be here in just a moment. First, I know you love podcasts as much as I do, so what if you had an app that magically connected you to the exact right listens around what interests in inspiring both you and your friends without having to lift a finger? Padopolo's AI powered recommendations and social clip sharing are just a few things that make it different from all the other podcast apps out there. So download padopolo now. It's free you in both app stores and if you have a podcast, get it featured on our home Discover screen for free and access time saving ways to grow your reach, engagement and revenue. That's Pedopolo. Struggling to retain or engage your people Feeling burned out? Maybe your team is overwhelmed by the pace of change, or you may feel you can't delegate or trust your team to deliver. Being a successful founder of a growing scalable business demands effective leadership skills. And all too often we're held back by subconscious blocks, sort of like an inner soundtrack that limits our success. Whether you're looking to uplevel your leadership breakthrough blocks in your business or simply harness the power of music in your life, you're going to love the actionable insights coming from leadership coach Susan Drummond. She's gonna help you build your leader's playlist. Leveraging music with I am statements to transform your emotional state to empowerment and practice getting into the right energetic feeling to realize your dreams. And if you've ever wondered why certain people get under your skin or certain situations trigger you, you'll also be learning about how applying the enneagram to leadership in business will help you get clarity on your own personal superpowers and and unlock team performance. So let's put on our wings with the inspiring Susan Drum and be sure to download the podcast app so we can keep the conversation going after the episode.

Susan, please welcome to Wings.

Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here with you.

You know, I want to jump right into this concept of the leaders playlist. I like the term a playlist because we have this, this playlist of all these thoughts going on, you know, in our minds and we don't even know sometimes what we actually believe, but it manifests in our lives. So when you're working with all these billionaire CEOs and these high performing leadership teams, what's the difference between them and their playlist and everybody else's playlist?

In some cases there is no difference. Depends on what's in their way. Right. So we all are, we all are working and growing to the next level. So I think one of the things that, let's just say for me as an entrepreneur that has not been on my playlist that's helped me get those types of clients is just a belief that we're all equal in some way and growing. So I've had many of them say to me, you know, you treat me like a peer. And I'm like, that's because you are. And so many other people, because of their exceptional stature in life, don't treat them that way. When we talk about playlist, just to take a step back, I use the term both literally and figuratively because the book is about how you can actually use music to shift your state of being in order to be a more high performing leader. And. But the thing to know about some of these uber successful entrepreneurs is they're still getting stuck by things and moving through them too. It's not like they're like, yay, I'm done. And it's all like, check the box. Like, we're always, we're always climbing that mountain to the next one. So if you can embrace that as the joy of it and recognize that, you know, when you hit whatever it is that you think is the milestone and you think like, everything will be hunky dory, then it will be. I mean, it can be, but you'll always be looking to climb the next one. And that's what I noticed that a lot of these very, very successful entrepreneurs do.

Right. I, I think this is really important to say there, there's no destination. Like, you arrive at this place, this, this thing that you've been dreaming of and you, you assume that everything will be perfect, you know, the angels will sing and, and all of that. And there are so many people who reach their milestones but then kind of feel empty or they, or like you say, on to the next thing or they've been, they're stopped at a ceiling of their own construction which they can't get past. So like traps, it could manifest. There's a whole bunch of different things, but suffice to say it's about, you're essentially saying it's about the journey. It's not about the destination.

It is and just recognizing it is that journey. But that you can influence that journey tremendously by really understanding the mindset that's driving you and understanding a core motivation, understanding your blind spots in a better way. All of those things will provide for your growth. But it's about the energy with which you approach those. If you approach them with a more joyful energy, a more excited, curious, game on type of feel, your that journey is going to be a much more pleasant one than if you're experiencing it with like frustration and, and doubt and, you know, fear, then you might still be on a journey, but it's still definitely not going to you. You're not going to feel any different once you get there. You'll still have all those things. Yeah.

Because some people can start on this journey and I, I speak as a, you know, five time serial entrepreneur where there are moments on the path where everything's great and everybody starts a business with this excitement and joy and doing the thing they want to do and it's all great. And then you encounter all sorts of things, often things beyond your control. And you can be dragged down kind of like under the sort of like the rip current of those things, triggering unresolved issues like where you allow yourself to get frustrated or, you know, or it starts to. Something goes wrong and it sparks a doubt. So if you're in that place which a lot of entrepreneurs ride this roller coaster almost every hour of every day, how do you get out of that? How do you get out of that kind of doom spiral?

Right.

Which I think entrepreneurs can fall into.

Yeah. I think you highlighted an important point here because I'm not saying that you won't ever feel frustration or fear or doubt. Those are normal, healthy emotions and you would not be human if you didn't experience them. The key is, are you getting trapped by them? What I say is sort of a recurring playlist, like that recurring song that keeps getting stuck in your head that you're like, oh my God, if I hear that song one more time, I'm gonna go crazy. I've got lots of different ways of shifting patterns, but one that the book particularly talks about is how music has an impact on the brain such that you can both interrupt that old pattern. And all that is is a neural pathway that's been grooved in so many times. I call it like an eight lane highway to hell. And shift that by using music to develop new neural pathways that allow you to make change happen faster. Because of music's impact on the brain.

So tell me more about that. What type of music? How do you find your soundtrack?

It really depends on you as the individual and how the music impacts you. First, I tell people to look at where is someplace that you do feel like you're bumping your head up against a ceiling or someplace you're getting triggered in your life. And if you write that down, like, what is it that's triggering you? Or where is it that you're feeling stuck?

And then I want you to sort.

Of reflect, where else in your life have you felt that, like, from the past, have you felt the same thing? And sort of start to notice the themes. What I often find is some of these things go all the way back to childhood, right? They're sort of like, this thing always sort of gets under my skin. Well, again, that's what we say. That's the pattern. And so if you're saying, like, I'm clear that this is the pattern and I want to be shifting it, what can I do to interrupt it? Because sometimes you're just, like, speeding along this highway before you even know it, right? You're just triggered before you even know it. And you can use music to interrupt that. So you can find a song that best represents that energetic signature to you. Like, if the signature is, you know, anger, you can find music that best represents that to you that would interrupt it. And the second that, that's just to, like, kind of get off the old trigger, to get on to a new pathway. You want to determine what's. What is the new. What do you want to be feeling instead? Like, instead of the anger, I want to feel empowered or I want to feel clear. And then you want to look for what is music that actually gives you that emotional state, that feeling, because it's practicing being in the energetic feeling that will best bring on the right circumstances for you to continue to experience that. So you've got to practice being in that energetic space. And music is the fastest way to do that.

Right? So he want to feel like you say, you want to feel empowered. Pick a song that makes you feel empowered and listen to it a lot. Is it that simple?

It's partly that it's determining what's the new message. And I used IM statements, so getting really clear. I had had an old playlist called I Am Treated Unfairly. And there will be plenty of options in my past where, particularly in some of my personal life, where, like, any objective person would be like, yeah, that was.

Yeah, you.

So you. But you can't be stuck in that place. And I knew it wasn't serving me as a coach. And so part of that then was, what is the new place I want to be? And I was like, no matter what life throws at me, I'm empowered. So I created a playlist of at least ten songs of music that had me feel in that empowered state. And. And there's usually an anchor song because you want to be. Have access to that anchor song whenever you need it. And for me, it was Bruno Mars 24 Karat Magic. And anytime I would find myself going down that loop, either resentment or feeling excluded by something, I'd be like, nope. Like, I'm thinking of a 24 karat magic, and I'm there. But I also practice that in the morning. Like, I'd put that music on, I'd go out in nature and go hiking to that playlist, and I continue to update that playlist so that I'm practicing that state of being. And what I found was I could let go of this old pathway, this old way of being much faster through the use of music to help me build something that I didn't quite. You know, change is hard, and so a lot of times we're just trying to do it, and we're like, oh, I just got to remember this. Well, I can tell you, with all the research that I included in here around music's ability to light up all four regions of the brain, you might as well use it to superpower what you're trying to do and the changes you're trying to make.

You know, this is really interesting with music because obviously, music really resonates with us on an emotional level. And, you know, for all the people that do vision boards or mind movies or all these sorts of things that you can do, they're. They're all great, but they don't necessarily. Like, looking at a picture or drawing a picture doesn't necessarily get you into that right emotional state. You could still find yourself trapped in the. In the thinking and in the analytics, but not really shifting the underlying piece of it. It's not really the right understanding, because the vision board only gets you so far.

I mean, there are lots of modalities, and if the vision board gets you. Gets you some of that and gets you in that state of being, great. But I will tell you, music has a powerful ability to essentially shift our state. You think about how they use it for Alzheimer's patients who are unresponsive. They're literally slumped over on the chair, not having any communication. They put on their Favorite music. And all of a sudden, these new neural pathways, well, the dormant neural pathways fire up again, and there's a measurable increase in eye contact, in smiling, and in communication. And this can be seen on an mri, where now parts of the brain that were dormant are lighting up again. Well, if music can do that for Alzheimer's patients, think about what it could do for us if we start to learn to harness it in the right way. And look, fundamentally, we know this a little bit because it's why we work out to music. We use it to shift our state to be in a higher energetic state. But what I'm suggesting is we can use music to interrupt old patterns that don't serve us as entrepreneurs and create new patterns that will serve us much better in our leadership. And I know this is true because I've done it for myself and I've done it for my clients and by being able to tap into that power of music. Because music is vibration and emotions are vibration.

I love that. I've never heard anyone articulate it in that way, but I realize at different times of my life if I've been sad or frustrated or whatever, that the music has always helped. I feel like I've almost done that intuitively without actually understanding. Understanding what you've articulated just now.

Yeah, I mean, we can use music sometimes. You know, when you're going through a breakup, sometimes listening to the breakup song just helps you process that, and you need to do that, which is why I say, you know, if you're feeling angry, I'm not suggesting you just ignore it and put on a happy tune, because feeling angry is very important. It lets you know that a boundary's been crossed. Right. And so that I might need to take action based on that. So I'm not suggesting. Don't feel some of these negative emotions. It's more about when you're stuck in the loop of them. Like, I kind of got stuck in this loop and I kept, you know, I. I'm as. The song's on repeat already, and I'm like, I don't want to be in this place anymore. That's when it can be incredibly powerful. But it also can be powerful if you first need to experience the motion. Right. I need to process it grow. Great. Use music to do that, but don't get stuck there. Use music to help you move on.

Wings of Inspired Business is brought to you by the new podcast Zero Limits Business Growth Secrets. Join me together with Steve Little, serial entrepreneur investor and mergers and acquisitions maestro, as we explore the little known 24 value drivers that spell the difference between having a. A $5 million business, a $50 million business, even a $500 million business. That's Zero Limits Business Growth Secrets. Produced by Pedopolo Brand Studio at zerolimitsradio.com that's zerolimitsradio.come 0 spelt out z-e r o limitsradio.com and available wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Susan Drum, leadership coach and CEO of Meritage Leadership.

You know, that's so interesting to me, Susan, because I think sometimes people sort of paint over the cracks, if you know what I mean. Like they'll or bury an emotion or deny it or some people call it sort of toxic positivity where you say, hey, I have a positive mindset and I'm just gonna be happy all the time, that kind of willful thing, and then deny the underlying feeling, which never gets you to the point of resolving it. So at a certain point you have to feel those feelings to be able to let them flow through you and out of you. So music can be used not only to lean into that and figure out what's actually really bothering you, but then literally change the tune on that. So it's, it's sort of both, right?

Yeah, it is, it is, absolutely. How do you understand what is the old playlist? I'm looking for something that's more recurring theme in your life. Right. That's what I help, I think. You know, I do believe everyone has a superpower. And what I, what people have said about mine is pattern recognition. I can see the patterns that are holding people back and help that illuminate what they are and shift them. And so that pattern, I'm using music to get clear on what that pattern is, that it's not just what's happening in the moment, but it has its roots far back. And that, that pattern is the ceiling that's holding you back from being the true effective entrepreneur that you need to be. But the, the good news is when we discover the pattern, we can disrupt it. And music is one of those disruptors. I have other things as well, but music is definitely one of those great powerful tools for disruption.

Well, one thing on the music, I want to give you a concrete example because I know so many women, female technology entrepreneurs, you know, that have a company that's VC worthy, meaning it could be a billion dollar enterprise, still get less than 2% of the funding, a number that hasn't moved in like 30 years. Okay, so there's a lot of frustration around that. A lot of great companies are kind of starved of capital, and it's affecting, like, a lot of women. And so obviously there's frustration around that. You know, it makes it a little bit harder to do the type of startups that, like, change behavior. You know, all of that, it is frustrating, and it's like, oh, my God, like, will someone see me? And what I'm doing and all that. So with your clients, particularly female entrepreneurs caught in that funding trap, I mean, what literally is the playlist for that? What could be. What is the money mindset issue, maybe, or whatever that's. That's potentially holding us back there when we're up against a structural paradigm.

Yeah, I'll share. I just did a podcast with Colonel Martha McSally, who was the first fighter pilot allowed to fly. And I think about her journey where when she. She decided she wanted to be a fighter pilot, it was literally against the law for women to fly. And that didn't stop her. She said, I'm gonna do. Took her 10 years, and eventually they changed the law. But it was an unbelievable, unwavering belief that a she could do it. And, like, that's stupid. Why couldn't women fly? Like. Like, I'm just gonna keep standing in the vision that one day I will be able to fly a fighter pilot. And she did it. So how was she able to do that? You think about the fact that, again, it was sort of the belief that what's happening. So you got the rejection now, but that doesn't mean that that's your future. And if you continue to just stand in the vision of what you know is possible and be committed to that vision, it will help shift out of the frustration, or you might want to process the frustration. Okay, so this didn't work now, but it's the. I think as entrepreneurs, you know, what do they say? Entrepreneurs, like, you have to be partly crazy because you have to have such strong belief in yourself and in your vision and in your product or service. That's what's required to break through. And so these are just little tests that are. That are actually there to say, how much do you believe in that? And everyone has the entrepreneurial story of, like, yeah, everybody thought it was crazy. Nobody thought this could be done. And look what I did. And my view is this is of your soul's journey to really believe in yourself, even when it feels like no one else is.

Yeah, 100%. It's like you're literally taking on something really huge. Right. So yes. How do you meet that moment? And maybe, you know, beyond music, I know you use lots of other tools and modalities as well. I want to get into the Enneagram and some of the other things that you do to women in particular, step into that kind of power.

So that I think, getting really clear on the qualities that they bring, really knowing that about yourself. So what are your superpowers? And this is where we do lead into the Enneagram, because the Enneagram really shows you where you have superpowers and where you have blind spots and what your path of growth is. But let's start with, like, what is that superpower? And so what the I am statement, when I. I created that playlist that I mentioned, it was, I am empowered. And I know that's a quality I bring. I bring empowerment to myself. I bring empowerment to other people. That is who I am. Who I am is not a role. Who I am is empowered. And so getting really clear on what are those, you know, core things that really describe you and your qualities, who you're here to be. Going back to that and reminding yourself of that will help you get through those pieces. Like, yeah, this is who I am, and therefore, I'm going to continue to take action from this state of being.

Right. Yeah. Take action from there. Not from a place of powerlessness or fear or scarcity or, you know, all the things.

Yes.

Because you won't. You know what they say, what you fear, you create. So. Because you're focusing on what you don't want.

Oh, it's so true. And I don't know what it is.

About the human condition, because you can.

Even know that, like, I mean, you know, you're talking to somebody on this podcast, has been on a spiritual journey for 15 years, and I know this, and I still get trapped in it. Right.

I know. Yes. Oh, my God. You know.

Come on.

Yes. Yes. Totally. Totally. And it's like, okay, keep going back to what's the vision of what you want to create? What's the. And why do you want it? What. What is it about that that is inspiring to you? What's the difference you want to make in the world? There's. You know, I have a. I also have an acting background. And there was what. There's always this phrase, when in doubt, focus out, which is like, don't get. You know, focus out on the vision, the difference you want to make with what you're trying to do, and let that fuel you, because people can get on board with that vision. They can't really get on board with, like, your insecurities.

Timing is often important in entrepreneurship, but when you articulate a vision with a story that really, people want to be part of that. It's one of the reasons why Martin Luther King's I have a dream speech, for instance, like, everybody could, like, understand and that could resonate because you. You have your vision. And so staying in that tends to attract, like, the people that you want to attract, whether it's a team member or client or whatever, they want to work with you because they are bought into this vision that's bigger than themselves, bigger than you. It's like you're an instrument to help make that vision possible. And it's so. It's so hard, though, for a lot of entrepreneurs. You can really get trapped in the minutiae of the day. You know, all the things you've got to do, all the stuff coming at you from left field, right field, everywhere, you know.

Yeah, so.

So getting a discipline around it. So on that point, when you're working with your clients, how do you help them with kind of routines that help them, I guess, stay consistent? Because you can have a practice, but if you're not consistently in it, it's maybe not going to work well, one.

I mean, I think writing down, what is your vision? What are you here to do? What's your big game? Writing that down, Put it on a sticky note and put it right on your computer. Here's what I'm here to do today, right? So, you know, my mission is to help leaders feel free and empowered so that they can create change that benefits humanity. That is ingrained in me. It's. I remember it every day because it's written right here in front of me, and I. It helps me make decisions. Is this something that's doing that? Which space am I in right now? Am I going to listen to that voice or different voice? And then I also have them, like, what is music? Start your day with music that has you. Like, when I think about that mission and that calling, that is the epitome. Like, it is about empowerment. So what songs remind me of this feeling of empowerment. And I put myself into that energetic.

State in the middle of the day.

I might, you know, I'm eating some lunch. I'm going to take a break. I'm going to step away. I'm going to reset using music as well.

That's so good. So back to the Enneagram for a moment. Why is the Enneagram different from any of the other? There's so many tests, you know, you can take now to figure out, oh, yes, and such. Right.

I'm very passionate about this question.

Yes.

Because I have worked with, I feel like all of them at this point, after doing this work for 20 years. And why I am passionate about the Enneagram is because it's a systems model for growth. So so many other ones are looking at behavior, whereas the Enneagram looks at motivation. It's why you do what you do, not what you do. That's the first layer of difference. But a deeper layer of difference is it is a model for self development and growth. When I can work with you, and I understand your Enneagram type, I know where you need to grow and what you need to do, but I also know where your blind spot is. And I know who can best support you in your blind spot. So what it is, is a systems model. It's sort of where do you fit within the system? Because, you know, as human beings, I think we think we're chameleons and can see 360 degrees, but we can't. We have a central vision and peripheral vision. And where I point my focus of attention, which is what I'm motivated by, that's what I see. And that becomes my superpower. But there's something behind my head I can't see, and that's my blind spot. Someone else in the model of the Enneagram is looking in that direction. And so they're your best friend in terms of growth and in terms of a partnership or how you want to work together. But you can easily have a lot of conflict with that person. Because if I'm looking this direction, one direction, I'm saying, no, it's green, it's green, it's green. And you're looking the exact opposite of me and saying, no, it's blue. Right. We can easily have teams that fall into some destructive conflict that doesn't benefit. But using the Enneagram, I can now really understand why certain people trigger me, why they get under my skin, and how they're actually my best friend in terms of growth. Helps you build the empathy. It helps you then understand how to leverage them better on your team and really understand. Like, the best teams that I've worked with are cognitively diverse teams. Essentially what this is promoting is cognitive diversity. But yet those very diverse teams can have the most conflict. So how do we work with it productively? So. So I found the Enneagram incredibly powerful in a team setting. And that's essentially what I do, is Use the Enneagram to help people build high performance teams, but also to really customize a direction of growth for themselves. Like I've got models on delegation and how to coach others and how to give feedback, but I have it by type so that you're getting a very customized like based on. If I'm a certain Enneagram type, what do I need to remember about giving feedback? What's my growth path and what's my strong suit in giving feedback? And that's what the, the Enneagram really allows you to have a very customized map of growth for yourself.

A hundred percent. Yeah. I remember I did an Enneagram years ago and I read it, but I didn't really know how to implement what I learned from it. It was a little bit confusing to me. Do you need somebody such as yourself to really be able to interpret it and figure out like your plan for you around that Enneagram?

Yes, you can put it in the show notes because I wanted to offer for your listeners a discount to it is program we have called Enneagram Applied. And with Enneagram Applied you not only get a much richer understanding of your Enneagram type, but you will understand what is your growth path and you will create a development plan as a result of that for yourself for the next six months to a year coming out of that program. And so if you just put in the code in of my last name drum D R U M M. So it's like the instrument with two M's, you'll get 20% off that and that program will help you start to apply it and then we have much more in terms of the application. But it'll give you the so what? Because all of these other tools like you know, I think of Myers Briggs. So I'm an entj. Okay, great. What do I do with that? And, and, and, and what's the so what? And, and then how do I relate to you? That's an insp. Like what do I do with that? That's where we've taken the application and supercharged it for you in order to know exactly how can I grow.

So I want to make sure that people know Susan, how to find you and work with you and a little bit more about who you work with. I mean I know you're working with all these billionaires and like executive teams, but you also help entrepreneurs as well.

Yes, yes. Well, you can find me@susandrumm.com and invite you. Of course there's a, there's a free quiz on there. It's very simple. Seven questions of what's your path to enlightened leadership? And it'll start to give you a little window into those superpowers and the potential roadblocks that could get in your way. And I've got a podcast as well called the Enlightened Executive. And there we talk about music, we talk about the Enneagram, but a whole slew of other things that can help you along the journey.

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Susan, for putting on your wings and flying with us. There's so many. I'm going to go build my playlist now. I mean, I think this is great. I'm like literally going to follow your advice.

I love it.

Susan Drum is the CEO and founder of Meritage Leadership, working with founders and billionaires alike for from startups to large corporations and private equity. Check out our podcast the Enlightened Executive on Padopolo. Also follow Wings of Inspired Business there, create and share your favorite moments with our viral episode clip feature and join us in the episode comment section. That way we can take the conversation further with your questions and comments. That's it for today's episode. Thanks for listening. Head on over to wingspodcast.com and subscribe to the show. When you subscribe, you'll instantly get my special gift, the Wings Success Formula. Women, Innovating, Networking, Growing, Scaling is the Wings of Inspired Business formula for daily success in your business and your life. Miss a Wings episode? We've got hundreds in the vault, all with actionable advice and epiphanies. Check them all out@melindawitstock.com or wingspodcast.com youm can also catch me on LinkedIn or at Instagram. Linda Ann Wittstock.

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