The Power of Selfless Service (feat. Jonathan Keyser)

Hi, I'm Susan Drummond. Welcome to the enlightened Executive, where your personal evolution sparks your leadership evolution. Each episode we feature groundbreaking techniques and strategies to help you get the edge in personal and leadership effectiveness. And if you like our content and want to support our mission, please hit the subscribe button. It really makes a difference. Today we're highlighting one entrepreneur walking the path of conscious leadership and his commitment to selfless service, Jonathan Kaiser. Jonathan is the founder of Kaiser, one of the most innovative and trustworthy commercial real estate firms in the country. Jonathan focuses his efforts on changing the business world through selfless service and his efforts to manifest his content through thought leadership and the level of excellence he holds his team to. Jonathan was recently named top 50 most trustworthy companies by Silicon Valley Review. He's a Wall Street Journal number one best selling author for his book, you, you don't have to be Ruthless to Win, as well as a frequent keynote speaker. So welcome, Jonathan.

Thank you. Thank you. I always get a little bit sheepish when I hear all those kind accolades. Thank you.

Well, you and I have a wonderful connection given that you invited me to be part of an incredible little mastermind called Selfless Givers. And the whole focus of it is how can we support each other very exclusive little group. And I am grateful for that. So I would love to kick it off by asking you what helped you the most in walking the path to become a more conscious leader?

Sure. Well, first of all, I want to say I really appreciate your podcast and I think that everyone that I've listened to, I really think you do a good job of kind of pulling out the details that us as business leaders need to do to be more successful. So I appreciate your selfless efforts there. And you are a huge addition to Selfless Givers. So it goes both ways. We are very, very, very grateful to have you in the group. And you add a lot of value. So thank you for that. Well, you know, my story is unique. A lot of people say, why would a commercial real estate guy be talking about selfless service? That doesn't seem very rational or logical. So my quick story is I was actually raised a Christian missionary kid. I grew up in Papua New guinea, which, for those who don't know, is right by Australia. And I was taught by my parents to love and serve and to help others. And I thought that was the way to do business. And then when I got back from overseas, I realized that my parents were quite poor. And so in my mind, I decided, okay, my parents have it wrong. This idea of helping Other people is nonsense because we're sitting around, you know, huddled around the coffee table, praying for God to provide our mortgage payments. So I decided at a young age that I was going to be rich. And I got into commercial real estate because a friend of mine said I could get rich. And as I got in, I realized really quickly, wow, this is a cutthroat, take no prisoners, dog eat dog industry. And so I became that way because I thought that's what it took to be successful. I saw that was what I saw mirrored. And so I decided I was going to be that. But I was miserable. And as you can imagine, I was misaligned with my core values being raised differently. And then 20 years ago, I go to a conference and a speaker talks about this different philosophy, this philosophy of helping people and succeeding. And I decided to adopt that. And it was a long, hard road to reinvent myself. But on the other side, we've created one of the largest independent firms of our kind in the country. And it's all around this mission of demonstrating that even in arguably one of the most cutthroat industries in the world, you truly don't have to be ruthless. Like the name of my book, To Win. And the vision is that commercial real estate is not alone. There's a lot of organizations, a lot of industries that are by their very nature, inherently ruthless. And it's my deep, fundamental philosophy and belief that you truly don't have to do that. The vision for the firm is not only do we help thousands and thousands of companies with their real estate needs all around the world, but we're also helping to demonstrate that if we can do it in commercial real estate, and we could show that you truly can behave differently, act differently, create Win win win solutions, and really pay it forward in an industry as cutthroat as commercial real estate, you can do it in any industry. You know, the book wasn't written for commercial real estate people. The book was written for your audience. It was written for people like you and me that run companies, care, and that want to do it better, but may not have a pathway. I think part of the reason why people don't do it is they don't know how. And so giving a pretty clear roadmap for how we've done it. Not that it's the only way, because it certainly isn't, but providing our journey and how we've done it and how we've created an organizational culture that truly does live and breathe the culture of selfless service. For me, I just pinch Myself, because it's one of those things where you'd ask me when I was a kid if I'd be doing this. I've come full circle, you know, I've basically become my parents, but I'm doing it in business and helping as many people as possible. And. And we can't keep up. We get so much business, we can't keep up with the demand.

Well, I love the story and where you found your path, getting back to your roots and what really mattered. And see, your parents were right after all.

They were right.

So let's unpack that a little bit. So in what ways did you see ruthless behavior and how do you do it differently? Let's get real specific.

Well, I mean, if you just look at the industry as a whole, and I'll just talk about mine, because it's the one I know the best. But I know there's a lot that are very parallel or similar. If you look at the behavior, it's driven by self interest. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'm actually an Ayn Rand fan. It's not about, you know, elimination of self interest, but what it is is it's self interest above win, win, wins. And I think that's what you see. So everything from when I was engaged in my cutthroat behavior, it'd be everything from trying to overhear conversations to hear what prospective clients they were talking to so I could go try to call them first and get the business. There's this one story where a lady that I brought to work for me, her son got hit by a car and she had a meeting and so she had to run to the hospital. And so she asked her partner to go to the meeting for her so she could go take care of her son. And her partner went to the meeting and pitched the client on replacing her with him, saying that he'd be a better fit for running the account so he could get a much larger portion of the commission. So it's that internal kind of culture of just like everybody's scratching, clawing, and fighting, and there's no rules, there's no referee. It's just whoever gets the deal and whoever gets it across the goal line wins. And then on the client facing side, you know, here's a story. I had a client named Judy, and she was a really fast growing technology company that was adding 10 to 20 employees per month. And she needed space, she needed more space. So she hired me to help her find space. And the thing that, you know, if you work with Technology companies is. Flexibility is everything. You don't know what you're going to look like tomorrow. So you need to build as flexible of a real estate environment as possible. Well, I talked her into a 10 year lease in the most expensive building I could find because I knew the commission back to me would be the highest. And then a couple years later she called me and said, why did you get me into this lease? And now I'm stuck with eight years left. It doesn't work for me. Like why didn't you represent me effectively? So that's the kind of thing that day in and day out is commonplace in our industry. And again, I think it's somewhat short sighted Susan, because definitely you gotta play.

For the long game.

She'll never refer business to me again, she'll never work with me again, you.

Know, and you certainly won't get any referrals from her.

None. None whatsoever. So I think that, I just think there's a real opportunity for the world to realize that it's not about giving everything away. This isn't a Mother Teresa approach. I mean if you look at the name of my book, it's, you don't have to be ruthless to win. So what I'm trying to do for people is tie selflessness, helping other people selflessly with winning, with success. I believe that selflessness is the most self interested or the most selfish strategy in the world. But I just think that people haven't like even to hear that sounds weird. Like what do you mean selflessness is selfish? I just think that a long term game plan of doing everything in your power to help as many people as you can in front of you. You can't out give the universe and over time it comes back and that's what we're experiencing. Just business dumping on us from all corners just because we spent so much time trying to help people. So I don't have to sell, Susan. I spent zero time selling and I spend that same amount of time trying to help people. And then those people become advocates for our firm and for our cause. And so they become like our salespeople out in the world looking for things for us and sending it our way. And so it just creates this amazing cycle of win, win, win, people helping people. And it's a blessing. It's a blessing to be a part of it. Yeah.

I want to hear a bit more about what that looks like within your culture and how you've built that culture. But another thing I want to say is it's interesting that I think coming into the business world. You had this idea like, this is how the game is played. And I think sometimes some leaders still get stuck in that is how we need to play the game. If I'm going to be successful, I need to show up like this. And what I love what you're doing is showing a different way, a different model, and in fact, a better way and a better model. So tell me a little bit about how this shows up in your culture. What does it mean to operate from selfless service for your firm?

Yeah, it's a great question and there's a lot of ways I could answer it, so I'll try a couple. And it's probably the most commonly asked question is what does this actually look like? Because it's all sounds good and fluffy, but how does it show up? I think the first piece that's critical, Susan, is the intentionality around declaring who you are and what you stand for. When we started the firm, I still remember I had the email drafted to send to the web developer to say, go live with our new website. And we had filled it with testimonials and the people that were starting it with me and why we wanted to do this and all of this kind of big, heady, do good in the world stuff. And I thought, you know, I better read this whole website one more time just before I go live. And as I read it, I thought, man, we are going to be the laughing stock of our industry. Here we are talking about love and serve and all this stuff, and screw it, this is who we are. Send. And the fact that we were so willing to boldly put it out there, I think is part of the answer to your question. It's people that aren't looking for that. If they show up at our website, that's what they're going to get. And so if that's not what they're looking for, it acts like, yeah, exactly.

I can't imagine why you wouldn't be looking for that, but I get it.

You'd be surprised. I mean, so it acts like a magnetic force. It repels the ones naturally that aren't wired that way, and it attracts the people that are. So that's kind of the first is be willing to be bold and put it out there. And that's what we done. And we've taken that culture. We have 15 core operating principles that we dive through in the book. It's what I built the firm around. It's when I was in my epiphany moment creating this sort of idyllic sense of what a commercial real estate firm could be. Around this model, I started writing down all the things I wished were true. That became our 15 core operating principles. And that is how we manage. That's how we hire, that's how we fire, that's how we service clients. So that's the second piece is having a very defined, actionable set of principles. The short answer to your question is whether it's internal or whether it's external. You know, like whether it's Kaiser people with each other or whether it's Kaiser people with the community or clients. Every touch point, not that we're perfect, we're not, but every touch point is designed to be how much value can we push across the table? How much can we serve? And out of that, the answers arrive.

So I think that in doing that, there's an important teaching of your staff around equipping them for moments of truth or trade offs. Because it's the gray line, it's the fine line that sometimes, and I think this is even where a lot of firms get caught integrity wise and don't show up well, is those gray lines, they start to make exceptions and they go down that sort of slippery slope. Do you have an example that where perhaps someone sort of made in your firm the wrong decision and you had to correct for that in terms of your philosophy?

My favorite person is me. So easy to pick on other people, right? So my favorite person is me. But so I'll give my example in a second. But first let me just tell a story. One of the things that I think is so critical is as part of our culture is this idea of never punishing mistakes. It is inherently embedded in what we do. There are always going to be mistakes. The question is, how do you handle those mistakes? And you have people that are empowered to be bold. I believe that bold, fearless, massive action is precisely where value is created. Well, if you have afraid people, they're not going to take that action. And the reason they're afraid is because they're afraid of being punished. And so it all goes back to safety and it all goes back to both psychologically and just for their employment. So for us, when somebody makes a mistake now, when I'm not talking about perpetual, this is the 47th time, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about genuine, authentic mistakes. It's like, high five. Did you learn your lesson? Go fix it. Next, right? No punishment, no diminishment of their role in the company or on an account that's very unique for Our industry. But I will tell you that the way that it shows up the most is I, as the leader, have to be real and authentic about my own shortcomings, around my own mistakes. Because what most leaders do is they try to cover them up, they try to justify them, and nobody believes it anyways. But they're not willing to speak up because they're afraid of being punished. So you have this culture where these leaders talk about how great their culture is and how there's all this stuff, but the reality is they don't live it. So the hardest part for me is I fall short every single day. Like our. Our principles are designed to be aspirational. They're not designed for perfection. I would fail miserably, and I don't try to.

What's one of those principles? Can you give me an example when you're talking about them?

Sure. So, like, in our principles, they all sort of tie together, right? So I've referenced a few of them, right? We don't punish mistakes. That's principle number three. That's critical for us. We're a family. That's principle 11. We're 100% coachable. That's principle 12. So I'll talk about that one. Principle 12 is 100% coachable. Well, guess who has to be the most coachable? Me. Right? So at the end of every meeting, I'll say, okay, now, open forum. Where are we screwing up? Where are we not helping you? Where am I dropping the ball? Where do you need more from me? Where am I not being my word? Principle 8 is being our word, right? So if you just think about that from a way that you operate, it's almost normal to say, I'll call you tomorrow. And you know, you're never going to get a call tomorrow. So for us, it's like being our word. So there'll be some times when I'm running so fast that I miss things, right? I'll be like, oh, crap, I committed.

That to be your word. But then you. The job, and I think you're only as strong as your word. I mean, that is your. Your sole power lies in your word. And for those that don't realize the power of their promises and intentions and think that that doesn't impact trustworthiness. Yeah, I love it. I love that.

And if you don't address it, you've lost trust. So I love to address it. I'll be like, hey, last week I told Matt that I was going to get him something by three, and then I forgot all about it. Sorry, Matt, that's not our principles. I'm working on doing better. Right. When the leader says stuff like that, like, I have one guy that says to me all the time, he goes, the reason I'm a Kaiser is because every time you screw up, you actually like telling us about it. You actually go above and beyond to tell us how bad you screwed up. Because I've never had a leader in my entire life do it. So again, that's not kudos to me. It's just the willingness to be vulnerable and authentic. That's what people crave. And so when they see their leaders do things, then, as you know, you teach this all the time. When people see their leaders do certain actions that are consistent with what they tell others to do, that's what creates trust. That's what creates alignment. That's what creates this desire to go all in and put all their best energies into something. And if they don't, it might look like that on the surface, but you're only getting a fraction of your people's best.

Yeah. You know, I think about what is required to have that level of vulnerability for a leader, and a lot of it is not being so committed to egoic needs of, you know, being right or being in control. If those are driving you, then ultimately you are going to show up as a different leader.

Yes.

And I think what you're really saying is you've got to be committed to a bigger mission, a mission outside yourself. And that's your mission is about giving. So I love your. It's just a very simple, clear philosophy. Even your principles, you know, are very simple. They're not. It's not complex on that piece. How do you deal with feedback in your company?

One, we try to be real time. Two, we try to be authentic feedback. For me, you know, we talk about coachability. I believe in having a coach. Right. I have a coach. And for me, the reason I have a coach is because I want someone who is willing to grab me, shake me, and help me see something I can't see. So if they are giving me feedback on something I already know, while that is useful, it's not nearly as useful as something that's a blind spot. And so if I have people that are empowered and willing to step into my blind spots and help me see them in a gracious way that I can actually hear it, that's invaluable to me. That's the only way we as humans grow. And so when you have an open culture, yeah, sometimes you get feedback that's Just people projecting their own whatever. But if even 1%, if 99% of the. Oh, by the way, you know how feedback shows up criticism. So most people take criticism and then they just have this bulletproof panel that they put up in front and doesn't get through and they're just firing around the side. For me, it's like, if even 1% of that feedback is true, I want to learn from it. I want to get better at it.

You know, get curious about it. So what does that mean? I might disagree with it, but they're seeing something. Let me get curious about it. I always like to say it's just data. Do you want to shut down to data or do you want to let it in and like, look at it? It doesn't mean, again, if it's 1% versus 99, you can make the determination. But if you don't explore what that 1% is, there's some huge, costly things that could create trouble for you down the road.

Well, I think that's why people like you are so valuable in working with executives. Because so many times executives create this little bubble around themselves of, yes, people that are afraid to say the truth and don't be authentic and don't do what needs to be done. And as a result, it creates a real challenge for the organization. And the leaders don't realize that they're the problem. They're busy blaming their organization and they're the problem. So for me, Kaiser is about a constant upwardly trajectory of self realization and awareness, which the only way you come up with new self realization awareness is through that icky feeling in your stomach where you go, ooh, yeah, that feedback hits home. It hurts because it's true. And then what do I got to do to work on that? And again, that's a mindset more than anything else. That's not a tactic. It's got to come from a deep down desire to really get better. And so when you do that as a leader and then when you have these authentic conversations with your team, there's less defensiveness because they know that if the situation was reversed, I'd be sitting there going, oh, interesting. Tell me more. How can I improve?

Yeah, exactly. Well, what would be one thing? Let's say our listeners are intrigued by this and would like more of this in their own companies. What's one thing that they could do tomorrow that would help instill this type of selfless culture?

Yeah, I love that question. I mean, there's a million things. But my simple challenge is everyone has the Opportunity in every single interaction to do this instantly. This isn't something you have to go take a course. This is not that. This is every interaction you have an opportunity. If you screwed up the one before, who cares? Do it the next time. And that is when you approach a conversation like, I'm not advocating that people should, you know, throw away their business model, go stand on a street corner and just start helping people. Although that's a pretty good idea actually. You might actually get a lot of press around that. But my mindset is you're already going to have your meetings, you're already going to have your interactions, you're already going to have your conversations. In those conversations, instead of thinking, what do I need to get out of this? Try to focus on how you can help that other person. And my belief is there's the power of three. So when you talk about the power of three, it's like you help somebody in one way that's selfless. They go, wow, that was really nice. Help somebody in two ways. And they go, wow, that person's really mean. Help them in three ways. You've just created something, a special rare air space that most people never experience. And when you have that with another individual, it's truly extraordinary. Imagine if you extrapolated that out across all of your interactions. I am not saying I do it perfectly because I certainly don't. But imagine how many years I have spent doing this, practicing this, refining this, trying to figure out everywhere I go, how do I help people? Instead of leaving a trail of burnt bridges behind me, I am building these relationships that are special, where I have done things for people that they appreciate and then voila, when things arise that they think I should benefit from, they're quick to do it because they have a different relationship with me. So if you're in business, if you own your own business or you're a leader in a business or you want to be a leader in your business. To me the key is look for every way in any interaction and remember the power of three. And try to find three ways that are not self serving, that are not. Well, I'm going to frame it like it's for you, Susan, but it's really for me. Right, right. Find three ways to help that person. Yeah, exactly.

Well, I could talk to you for hours and I just want to say Jonathan has one of the biggest hearts. I love what you're about. You're perfect for this show. So glad you came on. How can people learn more and ways to connect with you?

Kaiser.com, k E Y S e r not like the hospital Kyser K e y s e r.com and you can get to us through there. But you know, if we can help in any way, whether it's from a commercial real estate standpoint, whether you're looking to get better plugged in, you know, we love to be Some people call me the free community concierge. While that could be considered disparaging, I embrace it and I think it's absolutely true. So we're always here to help and love partnering with good leaders and helping them achieve their objectives. So if I can help in any way, everybody can let me know. Kaiser.com awesome.

Thank you.

Thanks, Susan.

And if you like this episode, you're not going to want to miss my interview with Brittany Hodak, who's an expert at creating loyal super fans, super employees within your company. Let's lead the way. Hope you enjoyed today's episode, and I'd like to point you to the next important step. Hit the subscribe button to get notified when we release new content. I'll see you on the next episode of the Enlightened Executive.

Sam.