Widening the Talent Pool: A Surprising Solution to Hiring Woes (feat. Petra Schmidt)

Hi, I'm Susan Drumm. And welcome to the Enlightened Executive, where your personal evolution sparks your leadership evolution. Each episode we feature groundbreaking techniques and strategies to help you get the edge in personal and leadership effectiveness. Today we're talking with one powerful female leader walking the path of enlightened leadership. And I'm happy to introduce Petra Schmidt. Petra is a managing partner with Aon's Enterprise Client Group and leads the financial institutions practice for North America. She's lived and worked in Europe and has spearheaded assignments in Asia Pacific and Latin America. Welcome, Petra.

Thank you so much. Glad to be here today.

I'm really excited to dive in and hear more about your approach to leadership. Let's start right off the bat. I'd love to know what helped you the most in your journey to become a more conscious leader.

Well, and I love the fact that you use the word journey because it is just that. And I think knowing that you have a plan for a journey is great. But being open for possibilities and opportunities is an important part of a journey as well. When I look back on my career to date, I had certain ambitions and things that I wanted to do, and I feel like I've done that and more. But the path that I took, I would have never dreamed about. First of all, I didn't think I would start in insurance. Let's just start there, right? But this fantastic job came along, and I thought, this sounds terrific. It's a great organization. It's great people. I'm going to be developed in a great way. And I thought I would stay with that organization for a number of years, and they were terrific. But then I was approached by Hewitt Associates to do more of a global job. And I thought, great, I'm going to take this opportunity, by the way, despite the fact that my father said, how could you leave this other organization because they've been so good to you? Now, of course, he takes full credit for the fact that I made that job change. I've now been with this organization for 25 years. I wouldn't have told you that. I would have lived in London twice, moved now to my second time to New York City, lived in Philadelphia, lived in Chicago. It's been a wonderful experience. And I feel like I have worked for not just one organization, but I feel like I've worked for several because it's been kind of an acquisition and merger amalgamation over the years. And I think I've just been open to both holding up my hand or raising my hand and saying, I'd love to go do this, even though it's not available tomorrow, but please keep me in mind. And also being open when somebody knocked on my door and said, hey, we have this opportunity, would you be interested?

Yeah. It sounds like you both let them know you were open to change and embraced change when it was presented to you.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think keeping your eyes and ears open constantly around that and seeing how that does or maybe doesn't fit into your plan, and sometimes taking a risk and just being able to make a move to another country might be exactly the thing that you need to do in your career.

Where was a risk you took that really paid off like that?

Well, so I think the first time that I moved to London was exactly that. I was living in Chicago and I was absolutely loving my job. Things on the personal side were going incredibly well. And the gentleman I was working for called and said, we have a position in London that we'd like you to take. We'd like you to move there in two months. And, you know, we'd like you to stay for two years. And I just thought, not really a great time. You know, I really. Two months? You want me to move countries in two months?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

And you know, again, my father, who's a very wise man, said, try it. If in six months it doesn't work out, you can always come back. But you don't want to sit and ask, what if? What if I would have moved to London? And interestingly, Susan, the two years turned into four years, and then instead of moving back to Chicago, I moved to New York City. Right. So that was another risk. You know, again, I thought I was going to go back to the area that I was from and you could say, maybe more comfortable in. But I was thankfully intercepted by someone who said, you don't want to move to Chicago. You want to move to New York. You've never lived in New York. After living in London, you now need to move to New York. And so that was sort of the next risk was making a move.

So I know you've done a lot in women's leadership and promoting other women leaders. Can you share a bit about your philosophy there and what you've done which may bring inspiration for others?

Sure. I think it's important for everyone to support women in leadership. Not just women, but men. Everyone. Top leaders, quite frankly. Everyone. We started a women in leadership program at Hewitt many years ago. I want to say it was probably 20 years ago. Wow. At this point, yeah, we had quite a few senior female leaders in the firm at the Time. And I feel like I've been very fortunate to have good mentors and leaders throughout a good portion of my career. And I wanted to make sure that I got involved in a way to enable that for others so that that wasn't a unique experience, but that was the way it should be. And so we developed this program and we did a lot of mentoring, getting everyone in the firm involved, by the way, men and women doing a lot of the initial, you know, what's your brand? How do you communicate your brand to others? How do you develop a leadership journey? How do you take feedback? How do you give feedback? How do you look to really take that feedback into actions, around where you need to develop over time and where you want to develop. And be very clear about that. That program was then picked up by Aon. And I think we're doing some very interesting things now around particularly our apprentice program bringing in high school students. One of the things I know you were interested in talking about is talent and you know, the great resignation. And you know, I think it's important for organizations to kind of open the talent aperture and look more broadly at where talent can come from and how that can engage existing colleagues in an organization. So over five years ago in Chicago, and we had been doing some of this in London and other areas, we started looking at bringing in high school graduates, which wasn't something that we attributed.

To high school graduates.

High school graduates, exactly.

What an opportunity for them.

That's incredible. And you know, it's almost one of those things that looking back on it now, we wonder why didn't we do that earlier, really? And one of the key things that we did, Susan, was it was existing jobs in the firm. We did not create special jobs. We just really took a look at jobs, whether it was in internal functions or within the business, to look at the skills and competencies needed and those that could be developed. And so in Chicago, we worked with Harold Washington University to actually create a curriculum. So it's a two year associate's degree. And they would come to work for Ann three to four days a week, go to school one to two days a week. And after two years and successful performance metrics, you would be offered a full time role. And so you are a high school graduate, your associate's degree is paid for, you're earning a salary, benefits. And not only did this attract diverse talent, you know, obviously a lot of female talent, but we made sure that we had mentors from within the business assigned to each of these apprentices. And I will Tell you, the performance has been terrific. The retention has been incredibly high. It's been a very rewarding experience for the mentors of the apprentices. And this year we expanded that program to seven other cities across the U.S.

Oh, my God, that's an extraordinary program.

Yeah. And so we're looking to have 10,000 apprentices over the course of the next 10 years.

That's amazing. So I imagine some people would be saying, well, what could a high school graduate really do? How did you figure that out? I mean, did you take parts of a current job and kind of parse it out?

Yeah, you just really break down that job and you look at what are truly the skills and competencies required, what are the tools, resources, processes that are involved in that job. For many entry level jobs, you're doing a lot of on the job training for that individual. And so if you really look at, you know, whether it's in IT, finance, hr, marketing, within our commercial risk brokerage area, I think we broke it down to about 23 different jobs across the organization where we could take an apprentice.

That's amazing. And I like that you called it an apprentice program and tied it with a university because that's also unique in the program.

So they're one of these community colleges in each of the cities that we've expanded into. And there's also, I mean, obviously it's been a bit more challenging with COVID but we do, we do look. And in Chicago, for example, I think there are now over 30 companies. So we've expanded this program in partnership with other organizations, organizations to now have, I think it may even be close to 40 companies who participate in the apprentice program. And so there's networking opportunities, development, soft skills training. It's really become quite a program. And by the way, we take now pride of, you know, ownership here, authorship, if, you know, we have an apprentice playbook, we are happy to share that with people. We hope they will take it and improve upon what we and others have done. And we just think it's a really interesting way to start to develop talent at a very young age and open yourself up to pools of talent that you may not have previously considered, which I think, particularly in this day and age, we all as employers need to look at.

Yeah, I think what you've just described is the exact example of enlightened leadership and why I wanted you to come on this show. Because for one, not taking credit, want to make sure, get this out, this is good for us as a society. You know, at the end of the day, and grooming the next generation of leaders and getting them early. And at the same time, also amazing shift in perspective of what's possible that if you think you can't hire a high school graduate, you can. Maybe that's not true for every single organization or type of company, but maybe just push the envelope on your beliefs on where, where your talent comes from and what, what could, what could be, what are your talent retention rates like within that program? How is it benefiting you in the long term?

I mean, I will tell you, our retention rates are well above 90% at this point.

So 90% who go through apprenticeship actually take a full time job.

With Aon, I would say it's even higher. I'm looking at multi year retention. So once they've gone through the program and they have taken a role and are continuing on with Aon, it's been very humbling to be a part of. And I will also say it's been very engaging for our colleagues that we do this and that they have the opportunity to get involved in what they learn from our process.

Yes. I have to believe it's also training your leaders to be better managers because they're working with this young talent. They've got to really hone how they delegate, how they give feedback, all of those really important pieces to leadership with this group and be crystal clear.

Yeah, exactly. And I think there's perhaps a different level of patience, a different level of training development. But I think we also have a lot to learn from these young people. And now I feel like I'm making myself sound old, but truly. So for example, the technology skills that they have coming into these roles is absolutely tremendous. The experiences, because many of these apprentices, while they are high school graduates, may have worked for a couple of years before they join us. And it could be in hospitality. We've had those who have, you know, worked in fast food or, you know, other industries. So they, they have had some work experience. They haven't had it in this setting. So there is a level of maturity that I think they come into, certainly a level of appreciation and enthusiasm and ambition, which is, it's quite frankly, energizing.

Yeah, I imagine it is. And how rewarding for everyone in part of the organization and it's such a success, so. Well, first of all, congratulations for thinking outside the box and doing something pretty incredible.

First of all, I cannot take credit for this program. I've been a part of, of the team and you know, as I think our CEO references many times we have a philosophy called and United, which is always about us as a team working collaboratively to serve our clients, our colleagues and our communities. And it really has taken a village to do that together. It's been. I think it's something that we are. We have a lot of things to be proud of, but this is something that we're incredibly proud of.

Yeah, really influences your culture, it sounds like. Tell me other ways in which you are handling the great resignation and talent retention besides looking broadly about where your talent comes from. If you have sort of advice or strategies. I know it's top of mind for people right now. What would you share?

Yeah, and you know, listen, this is certainly a very interesting labor market that we are in. And you alluded earlier, Susan, about this sort of helps develop your managers. And at the end of the day it is always the manager, employee relationship. There is the employee to organization relationship, the employee to the team, but then the employee to the manager. And I think you need to look at all three of those. The employee to the organization. You have culture, you have programs. Those are all obviously critically important. And I think, you know, when I look across our client base, everyone is looking at those. And you know, as the overused saying is, Covid is an accelerator. I think it truly has been an accelerator around whether it's program changes, whether it's around workplace flexibility and whether it's remote work, hybrid work, what have you. That's certainly something important and I think that is something important to look at. There is the employee to the team and we've obviously lost some of the face to face and so trying to replicate that. And clearly there was a period of time in the fall. I know we brought people into the office or gave them the option to come into the office. They weren't mandated. But certainly we tried to get people together and it was just wonderful to see people, I like to call it, in full body mode versus within the box we're doing now, which again, I'm so thankful that we have this technology. So we've really had to look at how we connect people to one another.

Couldn't agree more. In fact, that's lately doing a keynote just on this topic, which is how do you build connectivity and loyalty in your workforce? And you've hit it on the head with. It's about you and the relationship with the manager and. And also the relationship for the employee to the team, to the community that they're in. And you know, I think that leaders have sensed that and they've tried to do. I call it the sort of Virtual pizza, happy hour. And while that's good, it doesn't necessarily get to the level of connectivity that you're really missing from being together. And so you have to put extra effort in. And that's where we develop, you know, programs to help people understand each other's leadership styles. Be a little bit more vulnerable, kind of a little bit more of the team building type work that is done even in a virtual setting in a way that has people feel connected and they do, and it is possible. But just like you saying before, you've got to think outside the box and not just think like the happy hour is going to do it over.

Zoom. Yeah, well, and I think you mentioned something, this whole notion of being vulnerable, and I think what I have learned as a leader is I don't have all the answers and I never will. I should be expected to. And engaging your team or engaging your colleague is so important and is incredibly important. Now, what do you all think we can be doing better, differently, Whether it's on a project, whether it's in how we work together, I try and do this all the time, hey, what do you guys think we can be doing better or differently or what do you think we can stop doing? That just really isn't adding any value. And I think just being humble enough to really make people feel that that is a sincere question to them and their feedback and ideas are going to be heard and taken on board. And while everything may not be done, maybe it's something you talk about as a team or you talk about it in your regular one to one.

Yeah. It spurs something else. You know, even the idea will come back around nine months later and say, you know what, when we talked about this, we didn't have a solution for it then, but here's a way we could address it. I've seen that happen too.

Yeah.

And so tell me about your third category, which is the team leader and the employee one to one relationship. What are you doing there to help build some greater connectivity?

Well, I think it's creating that connectivity more often because when you were in the office setting, you just saw people more often and you had these spontaneous sessions, I would call them, you might say, hey, do you want to grab a coffee? Do you want to grab lunch? It's not something that was scheduled in your calendar. Now I feel like we've become incredibly structured and you have to be thoughtful around spending time with people because it's not going to be just by seeing them in the office. Although I hope we get back to that. So I've really tried to do more interactions that are shorter and in some cases with, you know, sort of during the height of, you know, the initial lockdown, I was touching base with people almost daily. And part of it was professional and part of it was just to say, how are you doing? Do you have what you need? Is there anything else that, you know, I can be helpful with? And some of it may devolve literally into, have you seen a good show on Netflix?

Right, yeah. You know, building that caring connection with people, you know, building that deep, caring connection to show you care about this person as a human being. They're not just a worker to you.

Well, exactly. And also just saying, you know, listen, you put in some extra time. I just did this with someone yesterday. I said, listen, you put in some extra time the other day because we happened to get a request, you know, late in the day or time, he's a couple of time zones behind us. And I said, do you mind at least getting started? And then, you know, London will pick it up in the morning. So I said to him, you know what, it's a beautiful day. Make sure you get outside, go for a hike, go do whatever. Just take the time off this afternoon. We don't have anything pressing right now. If anything comes up, I'll text you. Just that flexibility. And I think part of it is also just acknowledgement when people do put in extra effort. I always think recognition is so easy to do. It's the old adage of thank you or I recognize that you put in additional effort. Giving someone recognition in front of their peers or with a leader, it's just something so easy to do and sometimes we just forget to do it. I try to be very cognizant of that. Again, it needs to be sincere. It needs to be genuine.

Yeah. Do you have any structures for remembering that? Because I know some leaders, like I know I should do that. I just forget. I get caught up in xyz. How do you remember to do that?

Post it note.

The post it note.

I know, I'm like, is that like a bad old fashioned thing? No, I'm a huge fan of the post it note. Yeah.

Tell me, if you were to give some advice, like one thing that you think leaders who are up and coming and trying to be more conscious leaders, what advice would you give them? What's one thing that they could do tomorrow that would drastically up level their leadership performance?

I think there is nothing that replaces preparation. That is, I think, something that I have learned. Again, we're all Incredibly busy time is so valuable. We just talked about. Our days are so structured. You go back to back to back. But again, whether it's a short term, if you're having a meeting tomorrow, and that could be an internal meeting, an external meeting, it might be the biggest pitch of your life. It might be something incredibly small. But I think what I have learned is take the time to prepare, especially if it is going to be that big client pitch. What are the questions you don't want to get asked? What might be some of the deficiencies that you know could get highlighted? Again, those may be asked in a question, or you may be compared to a competitor, something like that. Or it could be around that client's organization and what's happening there. Take the time to prepare. And I find if I can rehearse something with someone, with a colleague, and they can help me think through either the overall presentation or how to answer a question in a better fashion, I just find that that is really, really helpful. Or it may be that interview that you're going on tomorrow or your next leadership position, whether that's within your organization or externally, just really take the time to think through that and don't be afraid to ask for help. And you're not going to be judged. I find if you do that, you will come out of that feeling more comfortable and more confident for whatever that scenario is that you're going into. And I recognize you can't do that with every single session that you might do. But prioritize, decide which ones you do want to spend that time preparing, and I promise you it will pay off.

Yes. The power of the role play, I think is incredibly important and maybe not used enough. Sometimes used. You know, we certainly use it in leadership development workshops, but you can do that outside of those types of structured programs. And even just hearing yourself say it.

Yes.

Out loud, it builds confidence. There might be things that you see that you want to tweak and you will be much better going into it the next time. So particularly the things that you need to be prepared for. I have a leader who has said this very similar thing, and what helped him was to outline what needs preparation the most this week. Like, if I had to pick three things I really need to prepare for, because I think sometimes you can feel overwhelmed, like I have to prepare for everything.

Right.

But pick the three things that need your extra attention and what are some ways or what could potentially keep you up at night. And I love your. Your idea of who can support you in that, who can practice with and be your role model buddy to go through it.

Absolutely. And that's another thing. Look ahead. You know, sometimes we get caught up in the okay, what's on my schedule today versus if you do take the time, maybe it's, you know, Sunday night, maybe it's Monday morning to say what is coming up this week. And that also gives you a level of comfort and confidence around, you know, the items in your week that you know are going to be important and that you are preparing for them. Yes. Yes.

Well, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing a bit about your journey, your wisdom, what you've learned, and particularly that program that you mentioned that I think is quite outside the box.

Thank you. It was such a pleasure, Susan.

And if you like this episode, you're not going to want to miss my interview with Gaurav Bhatnagar, who is helping leaders transform their organizations to create breakthroughs in employee well being. Let's lead the way. Hope you enjoyed today's episode. And I'd like to point you to the next important step. Hit the subscribe button to get notified when we release new content. See you on the next episode of the Enlightened Executive.