Becoming You and…Becoming Me: The Untold Story, Until Now, Because, Well, Here It Is

Rich, what was it like while I was writing the book?

Extremely focused. You were in the zone. I mean, the thought was like a military process. Right on point.

Okay, that's Rich King, my trainer. He's tried to whip this old bag of bones into shape for about the past 25 years. He is one of the top, toughest people I've ever met. Let's just say if you saw him walking down the street, you would say, well, there's a bodybuilder, and if you needed somebody to lift a car off of your foot, like, you would call him. All right, he is a tough guy, but I love him because he's actually really kind. He's very Zen. He desires to calm the world the F down. And I know because over our 25 years together, he has seen me through so much. Last summer, he and I worked out a couple times a week while I was writing Becoming you. On sale today, my friends. On sale today. And so I asked him about it. Was I pleasant to work with in that period?

Yeah, of course. You're always pleasant.

Oh, come on now.

Hey, in and out. Boom, boom, boom.

Did I complain a lot?

No, your mind was very focused. No time to complain.

Okay, well, I'm glad you're still my friend.

Of course.

Well, that probably won't be the last laughter that we hear in this episode of Becoming youg. Because today, oh, publication day, we are talking about how Becoming youg actually came to be, which is quite a story of how it got birthed and how it went from a little tiny seed of an idea to a hard covered reality. And guess what? You won't be hearing it from me, or at least not from me alone. You're gonna hear it from people who know me really, really well. People know me best in the world and who had front row se.

Not just on a book coming to life, but on a person coming to life and a person who just happens to be named Suzy.

Hi and welcome. This is Suzy Welch, and this is Becoming you. The podcast where each week we endeavor to help you answer the question, what should I do with my life? Now, typically on this podcast, we look at one piece of the Becoming youg methodology, which is based on the premise that your purpose, your purpose lies at the intersection of your values, your aptitudes, and your economically viable interests. And as I said, most of the time, we are digging into how you figure those things out. Your values, your aptitudes, and your EVs, as we call them. But this week is different because I have to say, it Again, because Becoming you, the book is finally, finally out there in the world. I've been yammering about it for months, and people can actually read the whole thing for themselves, which is thrilling and scary. But right now I am feeling kind of great because it appears there are people who actually want to read the book, which. Thank you very much. If you are one of them. Thank you very much. Big hug. So as this day, this day of publication, which I keep on mentioning, was coming closer, I started to talk to the people in my life who watched the Birth and Creation of Becoming youg up close and personal about their memories of the process and. And with every conversation, I started to hear this Is the Truth, a narrative that I don't think I fully understood about this book. And it's big, actually, which is that Becoming you, a book which is about self discovery and reinvention. It means so much to me because I lived it first.

After Jack died, you kind of went into shock a little bit, actually a lot. And you really started to. In my opinion, you actually kind of looked to yourself and like, okay, after the grieving, which was a very long period, you thought about, what am I going to do with my life?

That's Sue Jacobson. She's been on this show before, I think twice or three times, because, well, we have known each other since we were teenagers, and somehow I keep finding reasons in the middle of every podcast to call her up and ask for her opinion on something. So sue and I, we first met when we were camp counselors on Cape Cod. We were teenagers, and I have to say, we've been laughing our faces off ever since. But the kids know I'm on the phone with her when they say, you're cackling. You must be on the phone with Sue. Anyway, sue was by my side the entire time my husband was dying, starting in 2019, when he really started to get sick. And she was there immediately, the day after he died in March 2020, which was right before COVID hit, because Jack was such.

He was your partner. And I think that for you, you just needed to stop and think about what mattered to you.

Of course, 2020 was a period where everyone went into the woods or to the mountains or wherever, but I went into the woods, honestly, never expecting to come out. I was so sad. I. I was lost, I think, you know, it's not like I wasn't prepared. I was prepared, but nothing prepares you. And I just kind of deep funk. And I thought I was just gonna stay in the woods forever.

He would always Say to me, sue, you know what, Jack? I want to do something that would make Jack proud of me. And I think that factored in and I think that whole excellence that you both had, that sort of winning piece was also a part of it. And so.

You didn't tell this story to me, but my sense was you did take some time to really think and reflect. And then of course, you being you, you came up with this unbelievable becoming you concept, which is life altering. But I wasn't surprised because it was like 10, 10, 10. It was like another amazing.

Stop talking about me.

What happened?

Do you remember the first time you heard me talk about becoming you?

I do, yes. You know why? Because I asked you for advice about me and about how to apply it to me. We immediately launched it. Which is. Does not sound like I'm being a very good friend to you, but I actually, when you say stuff, I do kind of listen. And so, yeah, I actually specifically remember when you said it to me and I specifically said, okay, how can I use this?

Did I explain the methodology to you.

In your own way?

That was long before or it was a while before I started teaching it, right?

Yes.

And then I went to teach it. What did you think about me going to teach it?

I thought it was brilliant.

It is very hard sometimes to talk to sue about some things because then she breaks into this Susie cheerleader mode. And it's very annoying, you know, but it's also marvelous because that's what our best friend's for. But to love each other so like that. I love her that way. I'm her biggest cheerleader, but basically to pick up her story without the annoying commentary. In 2021, I took my self discovery and career planning methodology to NYU Stern, the business school. And I asked the dean if they might want a course on this methodology. So here's my daughter Sophia. She's 34 and a casting director. She has seen me write every book. Winning with Jack and the real life MBA again with Jack and 10, 10, 10 decision making met, which I wrote about on my own. Although Jack was in the next room reading and opining on every freaking word. And I mean, thank God he was. You know, she's seen everything. And because she's very laser like about people, she has a lot of opinions. Do you remember how I came up with Becoming youg as an idea or how I got to nyu? Do you remember anything about that?

My memory of it is that you were coming up with a lot of things about how people should find their way and career Stuff. And I think that. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is not whether or not you use this, but I feel like there was a moment where you were like, how is there not that class?

Yeah.

How are people not talking to people about this specific thing? And, you know, people in business school, but in people in general.

Yeah. I mean, I remember looking at the NYU curriculum and not being able to find the class right. Like, how could this not be taught? Right. All right. Then I started teaching memories. Just so much work.

I mean, you're building something from the ground up that does not exist. That is all your ideas and a lot of trial and error and testing things out and creating basically, like an entire way of thinking, way of life.

It was.

It's fun. And you were really excited about it, and you were really creating something, and you were incredibly busy.

And then.

I have not seen you for the past five years.

Yeah, she hasn't seen me in five years. Give me a break. She sees me every day because I feel. Feed her. And we get our nails done together and talk 400 times a day. And if we're not in the same room with each other, we're texting. So I. Give me a break. But I mean, kids, I have to tell you, though, she's not wrong directionally. All right. I started teaching becoming you as a class. And I'm not going to lie, it was the first semester I realized, oh, wow, I'm not kidding. I was. People really seem to need this methodology. Is. Is this real?

How could this be happening? I mean, even the dean called me and he was like, something's going on. And I said, something is going on. People, they need this. And look, I think this was as the world was coming out of COVID and a lot of people felt a sense of confusion. It was a cultural zeitgeist kind of thing. And the pandemic had raised a lot of questions. It did not answer about where we work, why we work, how we work. And I had this way. I. I had this step by step process, this excavation process that could help you answer those questions. My timing was immaculate. As the phrase goes. It was immaculate timing for people who are coming out of COVID But I have to tell you something. The timing was immaculate for me, too, because I was having those questions layered with other questions. And I. I needed answers, too. So NYU Stern said okay to the class, which actually meant I had to go and create the class as a concept and a method that I could teach. I mean, at that point, honestly, it was so much in my head, right? And I set myself up in a room with whiteboards. If anybody's ever watched Homely. And I was like, Carrie. Everything was connected with string and pictures. And I was possessed. I did this on Nantucket in the room where I wrote Winning with Jack. And the room was completely transformed into sort of the becoming. You have headquarters. And I just did mad research, and I started writing the curriculum. I mean, people cannot just pluck their values out of the air or their aptitudes or their interests. You have to facilitate that. How was I going to do that? And that required me to read every academic text I could get my hands on on how to do it, every methodology that existed. I was reading and digging and creating exercises that I thought were the right for the classroom for people in their 20twenties and 30s that I was going to be teaching.

You create things in an interesting way to me. I've watched how you do it. You have to physically kind of go through it and then redo it.

Sue, that is Barb Pritchett. When my. When my husband Jack was in hospice at home at the end of his life. One night we were holding hands and we were talking. I was telling him about the day, and I said to him, okay, that's great, honey, that's great, but I have to go make dinner. I'll be right back. And he just looked me right in the eye and he said, susie, I don't have enough time for you to keep making dinner. And here's the thing. He loved my cooking. I had made three meals a day for him every single day for the previous 20 years. He used to boast how he got breakfast in bed every day. He did. It was love, right? And he loved my cooking. I want to tell you, nothing fancy, Lots of butter and salt for my Irish guy. But when the end was near, he said, basically, I don't want you out of the room for the hour or whatever it takes to cook, and so please hire someone to cook for us so that you can stay here by my side. And I said, okay. And the next day, I found Barb. She's a longtime professional chef, and when Jack died, Barb thought that was it for her. I think she actually submitted her resignation. She said, it was an honor to be with you. It was six months or whatever. She really took care of us, but I had really grown to love her. And you've just quietly stepped in and kept everything going. And I said, you're not going anywhere. You know, Barbara and I are going to grow old and tie together. She's with me till the end. And there's really nothing, nothing at all in this house and in my life that she does not see you.

I've watched you climb for this, reinvent yourself, and it was huge for you. You had a lot that you were coming out of.

I had to figure out who I was going to be without Jack.

You chose to immerse yourself in academia and reinvent your book and write a new book and a new thought process to help other people.

That's what I say about that. It all sounds very deliberate now, you know, but at the time, to be real, it was so chaotic. It was chaotic in my head, in my chest. I mean, I was doing this crazy new thing. I mean, I remember one day walking onto campus at nyu, and I remember actually thinking to myself, what in the world made you think you could do any of this, Susie? What are you thinking? And I was so unsure at first about what I was doing and how I was doing it. I mean, I had. I'd been a broadcast journalist, okay? And after every single class, I literally, as required homework, would survey the students, and I would say, is this working? Does this help? How's this hitting you? And they were so good to me. There were 80 of them, and they diligently. Well, kind of because they had to, but they wrote back. And I was so lucky with these sort of early students of becoming you. They were so supportive and they were so encouraging. And as they were learning from me, I was. I was learning from them. And one of the things I was learning was that I wasn't wrong. No one really knows their values, and no one really knows their aptitudes very well. And no one realizes or not enough people realize how big the world is in terms of opportunities. These were all things that I believed going in. And they were telling me, yap, yap, yap, and filling in the gaps for me. So in this period, hearing from my students, this is when I started doing even more research and reading. This is when I decided I needed to get my PhD and I started to research like crazy. I discovered the great Bible body of brilliant research that exists on identity formation and values formation. And I just started to educate myself more and more. And I went to my boss at nyu, who was Stephen Blader. He was the head of the Management and Organizations department, brilliant, brilliant scholar of negotiations. And I said to him, I got to get my PhD because I can make this material so much better if I create a new language of values, which is what I'm Hearing. And I don't want to start from scratch. And I need to get my PhD so I can become as much of an academic expert about this as possible. His eyes. You know that phrase, somebody's eyes look like saucers? And you think, oh, that's just a phrase. His eyes look like saucer. He actually said to me, you don't have to do this. You don't have to. We all believe this class is important, and the students are rapturous. He said, you don't need to prove anything, Susie. We know this class is the right class. And I said, I have to do it. I, I want to do this right, because I think this is something. And I, I. You know what? I think I needed to learn. I needed to learn what I was talking about. And so I started writing my thesis at the University of Bristol in England about a new language of values. And I'm not exactly sure when. I mean, I was kind of thinking about it 24 7. I. I loved it so much. I loved my students. I didn't. I was doing so many office hours in that time. I went to that same professor, Steve Blader, and I said, how many do you do a week? And he said, oh, like two. But at that point, I didn't realize I was, like, doing 25 office hours a week. I was new, okay. And I thought, wow, okay. I'm learning a lot. A lot of this is coming together. And I think I felt happy. Kind of like, whoa. I had been in a long, dark funk, remember, as my husband was dying, then he died, and then afterwards. And I thought, wait, what's this I'm feeling? What's this I'm feeling? I'm feeling alive and hoping. And I think I might be in my area of transcendence. This is exactly what we are going for in becoming you. At the intersection of your values and your aptitudes and your interest lies your area of transcendence. And I realized, holy cannoli, I'm in mine. I'm living my purpose. My purpose is to help other people find their purpose. And it was all going super well, and I was seeing a future for me unfold. And it looked really great because I was a professor. I mean, I remember one time I was in class and I was sort of putting my books away, and a student came up to me and she said, professor, is there homework on blah, blah, blah. And I was like, hell, yes, Professor. You know, that's going to be me. That's the new Susie. That's where Susie landed after Jack Died. I didn't know where she was going to land. And she's going to be a professor of this thing about values and this methodology called Becoming you. And for many people, that would have been plenty. A professorship at a prestigious school. And I was spending time. I was getting to know my colleagues, and I loved them. They were really smart and interesting, and I was working with my students, who I loved, and helping them get to their area of transcendence. And that was a lot. And you know what? It should have been enough. I thought it might be. I was fighting for that to be enough, actually, until one day I took what turned out to be a very fateful walk in the woods with my daughter Eve. I'm going to tell you about it after the break. This is becoming you.

Hello, Surprise. It's me, Suzy, back with you, talking about how Becoming youg became a book. Now we come to the plot twist. Teaching Becoming youg at NYU Stern was this amazing experience. Experience, as I said. And I was loving it. But I. I kept on hearing from my students that they wanted to share Becoming you with their friends and family. Like, they would say, is there a place where all of this is together and I can go home and do it with my family over Thanksgiving? Or whatever. I was hearing that constantly, and I was like, no, sorry, you know, just here. And then they would say, professor Welch, is there going to be a book? And I would say, no. But it wasn't just my students. It was everybody who was kind of hearing about becoming you. I mean, even Hallie, who had started working with me as Becoming youg had become a course. Even she, seeing how happy I was as a professor, even she started talking about it.

I would say the early adoptions of could this be a book? We knew with after the first semester of teaching, and I think even sooner than that, because we were really watching it open people's eyes and hear what it meant to them. And I remember joking around saying, like.

I think this is a book.

And she just gave me this blank look that I'd never seen before because I've never been with her when she read a book. And she said, oh, yes, I know. And that was it. And we kind of just put it to bed. And then, of course, life goes on its way, and the class became bigger and everybody wanted it. And I then said to Susie, this needs to be a book. And she once again said, yes, I know, with this very blank look. I think it was a little bit of fear because only she knew what it took to write that Book. And I'm sure everybody on the podcast will hear a lot from people in her life of what it was like for her writing the book.

Now, about the same time my old friend Hals Heimbeck started coming around, I have had an incredibly long friendship with Hollis. She's one of the great editors and publishers of all time. We met in 1995, and we stayed really close friends. She was the first vegan that I'd ever met. We were both runners. But she also is just smart and funny and a terrific friend in every possible way and actually also, like myself, a widow. And we stayed in incredibly close touch. And every once in a while, while we were on the phone, she would say, well, when's the book coming, by the way? Hollis, I should note here, is the publisher of HarperCollins. Business, okay? And she started saying, you know, Susie, I think this should be a book. And I was like, you know, Hollis, no, I love you, but no, no, no. A thousand times, no. I don't want to write a book. I can't write another book. I don't have the bandwidth to write a book. No one reads books anymore. I had every single reason why I should not write a book. Mainly, I just felt like books are hard, and I knew how hard it was to write a book. And I was making that case because I was walking in the woods with Eve one day, and she was asking me what was going on. I said, I can't stop people coming at me about this book thing. Eve. Now, a word about Eve before you hear from her. Eve's an artist. She's a ceramicist. She's magnificent. She's a very serene person. She hates chaos. She's, you know, she's just not crazy about capitalism. Let's just say she has an awful lot of tattoos. And, you know, she often gently berates me for working so hard. But she's a beautiful person. It doesn't feel like berating. She's a very magical person. She has this gorgeous aura around her. Frankly, I'm not really sure how we're related. Anyway, I was telling her about all the pressure I was getting to write the book because I thought she was going to sympathize with me. I thought she was going to say, don't let anyone tell you what to do, Mom. If you don't want to write the book, you should not write the book. That's what I thought she was going to say. But that. That did not happen.

You were kind of toggling back and forth a little bit, and I just felt like you had to do it because I saw you developing something so unique and so needed that the world needs. And I want your name to be on that and for you to really own that. And I think you needed to create a book to put that all into print and into the world as your own. And so I felt that you needed to have that. Your own.

I remember actually physically feeling stunned when you said that.

I just want you to get the recognition that you deserve. I wanted your name to be on and associated with that because it's your ideas.

Okay. So it's just the credit that you deserve. It stunned me when you said that. But the other. Because usually you're like, you know, peace, love, and granola kind of stuff. And I think the other reason why it stunned me was that we have often had conversations around this concept of eudaimonia, of just pleasure. And you. You have said to me, you know, mom, I just don't think people put on ear to suffer, unlike you. And so what you were saying is, go ahead, do this hard work thing. Go ahead and.

Yeah, but I think for you, pleasure comes from fulfillment, and that is hard work. Your ideas. And so I think that those two things go hand in hand for you.

Do you remember my reaction at all, or do you remember anything about that day beyond the conversation?

You were pretty quickly like, yeah, you're right.

I think you.

I think you felt the truth in it.

I did. I was like, oh, she's right. That's what I actually thought. I thought, oh, you're like.

But you weren't, like, jazzed about it. You were like, okay, because I think you. Nobody knows more than you. The work that it goes into writing a book.

I actually. I was kind of sick to my stomach because I knew you were right, and I knew what it meant. Yeah. It's like finding out when you're pregnant is like. You're so overjoyed, and then you have to push the phone out. And then I was like, you know, okay.

He had to do it.

Yep. Yeah. Ugh. So the next day, I called Hollis, and there was some lawyers involved, but we made a deal very quickly. And a few weeks later, I sat down on my computer and I started writing.

I mean, Susie was practically chained to that desk for nine months. It was scary for a while, but, you know, she really. Every ounce of her is in that book. And so I think that story is just a fun. It wasn't fun. While we were going through it, you.

Stayed at your desk from in the morning till Late at night. And I would just bring food, I would bring snacks, I would bring water.

Right. As if you were in a cage.

Anytime with you while you're riding is like being with someone who's really wrestling with something.

She sat down. She was very much in the flow state.

That's Eliza from my team. And she definitely had a front row seat on all of this.

And Pierre, you know, ran into the room. She's like, oh, no. Like, ran to go get him because he started barking.

And.

And it was as if, you know, it was like she didn't even know we were in the room. She didn't even hear the barking. She didn't even see us walk in or out. She was so hearing the words and getting them down on the page. So Flo's state is definitely very real when she talks about it.

That was fun. Okay, okay, okay, okay. Maybe I was a little intense, all right? But it was all so personal. I mean, I was intense because every single, single word of it was, like, not just coming out of my brain, it was coming out of my soul. I mean, the other books that I wrote, they were me and Jack. I mean, and even the one 10, 10, 10 that was by me, Jack was very involved in every sort of aspect of it. But this one Becoming you, this was all me.

Not.

And not just the methodology, but living the experience of the methodology. The truth is, as I was doing it with my students and doing all of my research, I actually, for the first time in my life, discovered and nailed down and understood and reckoned with my values with the Becoming youg Methodology. And I, for the first time, identified and cogently understood my aptitudes doing Becoming you with my students. And I discovered my interest, my economically viable interest. While I was doing Becoming you, I mean, I. Full stop, I discovered my purpose. And my purpose, as I said.

Was to help other people discover their purpose. To help you discover your purpose. Which meant I had to write the book. I had to share it. I could just couldn't do it in one classroom at nyu, no matter how many classes I taught at nyu, it wasn't. It wasn't a way to share it with everybody. And so I wasn't writing a book. I was like, you know, I was, like, on a freaking mission from God. And it really felt that way. Anyway, after a few months of me being in the zone, to put it mildly, and not hearing the dogs bark, the book was finished. I mean, it was finished for me, the writing part. And I don't want to nerd out here. But after you actually technically finish writing a book, then the editing starts and that's a whole other mountain to climb. But the moment when you know you're done, the editor says, it's done, stop fussing. And you push a button, okay? And it's done for you in a way.

Here's the truth, though. This is the truth. You don't really feel a book is done until it's out there. Until it's out there in the world and people start reading it, which is today. Today.

That's when the book really starts.

I hope it starts for you now. I do. It's awkward to say what I'm about to. It's awkward. It feels weird what I'm about to say. But you know, here's the thing. I really love the book. I do. I battle tested it. It's real. It's my story.

Someday I might even read it again. I asked Sophia, my daughter, who you heard from earlier, if she would actually read the book. And here's what she said.

Yes, I'll read Becoming you. But like I say to everyone about your books, that's the Pee Wee Herman thing of. I don't have to read it, Dotty. I lived it.

I don't know that line. Well, you know, I lived it too. And now maybe, hopefully, it's your turn to live it.

Becoming you is produced by Jessie Baker and Eric Newsome of Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Muskaan Nagpal and Kristen Muller, with help from Elisa Zinn, Hallie Reiner, Maddy Paul and Tanya Jogi. I'm your host, Susie Welch, and this is Becoming you.