Becoming You: Survivor’s Unit

Foreign.

Hi, everybody, it's Susie Welch. This is the becoming you podcast. I am a professor of management practice at NYU Stern School of Business in glorious New York City. Come and visit us sometime. And this podcast is about. Well, it's about becoming you, and it's about the way you do end up becoming you, which is a lifelong journey. So, ho. You're gonna have to be listening to this podcast for the whole rest of your life. Look, in this podcast, we're doing something new and very, very exciting, which is I'm having on as a guest one of my students, Michael Lopez, who actually went through the becoming you process. Say hi, Michael.

Hey, everyone.

Oh, there he is.

So glad to be here.

So exciting. All right, and along with talking to Michael about what it was like to go through the becoming you process, okay, we're gonna take some questions from the audience, people who have written into me. We're gonna do that and will finish up with rapid fire questions when my team tries to stump me and see if there's something that I can't answer. And you know what? Occasionally they do stump me, but I do my level best to come up with answers to their unbelievably obscure, left field wackadoodle questions. Like, you know, if I could remove one emotion from the world, which one would I remove? Which was jealousy, by the way. All right, but I. I don't want to waste another minute here. I want to talk to Michael. All right, so. So listen, before my class becoming you starts, I stalk my students on LinkedIn, and we actually make index cards for each student, because becoming you as a process, which is actually becoming you, just to refresh everyone's memory, becoming you is a process by which we try to answer the question, what should I do with my life? Right. It's the. It's a. It's a process by which we try to figure out who we are standing still. Right? Which was a great line that came from Sophia Borzalari. Sophia, say hello. Oh, there she is. One of my team members, who we are while we're standing still, so we can figure out which direction to start running in when we do run again, or to change directions if we are already running. And so I stalk my students like you, and I make up a little card on them. And I saw that you'd been in the hospitality industry. You're not the typical MBA profile. All right, so why don't you start off by kind of telling us two things. What you did before. No, three things. What you did before your mba. Why you went to go get your mba. Okay. And why you took becoming you.

Yeah. So before the program, it was eight years of this really amazing career in restaurants that, I mean, it started, I was in, you know, I was doing every. All these odd jobs, like internship here, internship there, and then somehow found myself working as a host at a front door. It was part time. It evolved, and then, you know, I mean, look, eight years later, I was a sommelier, Wine program at my fingertips. There was a. There was a moment that, you know, in 2020, the restaurant industry was decimated. I was laid off, along with thousands. And having always wanted to get my mba, I knew in undergrad, when I was finishing up, and I was like, I'm going to go into the restaurant industry. I'm going to grow, I'm going to build this career, I'm going to manage, and then eventually I'm going to go back to school. And then the pandemic hits, and I'm like, I'm going to do this now.

Okay.

There was something, you know, that just felt really exciting about, you know, being in an industry that had these, I mean, unprecedented challenges.

You loved being in the restaurant business, though, didn't you?

Oh, very much, Very much. It felt very natural. I remember, you know, the first restaurant I worked at just being, you know, it was almost uncanny how easy it was to connect with people. You love people in that space. I loved people. I loved being there. Whether it was as, you know, an employee and, you know, really a liaison for, Right, the chef and the whole staff there.

It's so natural to you. Like, I would love you to be at the door of a restaurant I was entering. I'd be like, ah, I. I'm home. I would feel so great. All right, so you went decide to go to business school, and the pandemic kind of was the moment of reckoning for everybody. And so you were going along in business school. What were you thinking while you were in business school about what you were going to do next?

It was. I. You know, I came into it while still working in a restaurant, and the progression was pretty crazy. I mean, during the program, I was working, pretty promoted, lost that job, got another one, was no longer working. I mean, it was quite a. It was a very momentous three years.

In addition, I'm sorry, I must interrupt you because Pierre would like to sit in your lap. Okay. I. I think he's gotten over it. All right. I'm sorry, Michael.

It's so funny because I have a. I have a cat, too. And so my Morning alarm is just getting licked in all the. The animal love. So I'm. I'm in my element.

This is a crazy animal house right now. All right, so you were going along. It was crazy times. And you. And what did you think you were going to do? Like, did you get bit by the. This is where I'm going with it, my friends. Did you get bit by the consulting and banking bugs?

Oh, absolutely. Especially in the last year when I really opened myself up to thinking about what else could I do. Because, I mean, business school, I think, you know, for the three years I was in, I had always been, prior to then with restaurant people, bartenders, sommeliers, servers. People who were just very homogenous.

Right.

Is really where I was. And then now I'm. All of a sudden, I'm around people who are in finance and marketing and consulting and tech, getting a little bit of all of those roads.

Yeah, yeah. But also, you know, look, this is what happens for those people have not to been to business school recently. You know, 80% of business school students, not just at NYU, okay. But at almost every business school, go in there, go on a conveyor belt into banking and consulting. When I went to business school, I didn't even know what banking and consulting were. Okay. I had been a reporter. I had no idea what they did. Did you know what banking, bankers and consultants did?

I didn't know what a hedge fund was until maybe last year at least, what hedging, you know, and then, I mean, someone puts it together. And that's the beautiful thing. At nyu, we had great professors who I think almost hell, yeah.

Yeah.

I'm just. Yeah. I mean, like, especially corporate friend that was a client was like, oh my God, it's going to be so dry. And I actually learned so much. Even if I was able to say I don't want to go into finance, I don't know if I want to go into this big consulting that everyone is doing. I definitely considered it. And I was bitten by. Everyone's bitten by those things.

I mean, first it's two things. It's the expedients. They're there saying, come work for us. It's like, you know, they're the sirens calling you as you go down. Like the river sticks away, whatever it is, and they're calling you. And when they're calling you, they're shaking big bags of money at you.

Right.

And you'd have to be very stoic to not just glance in that direction and say, what's so bad about it? After All. I mean, maybe it's okay. And so I'm always really psyched about the students who end up in my class because they're the ones. I mean, because becoming you is an elective, and they end up there. And at least they've thought to themselves, question mark over my head. Is that all there is? Or. Look, I get a lot of students who come into becoming you as you know, who have. Have already have offers in hand and have said yes to banking consulting, and they still want to know who they are. So wait, let me just ask this last question. Why'd you take becoming you?

First and foremost? Friends. Friends were like, we have got to take this class.

There's a crazy professor, this professor, and.

You'Ve just got to get on her climb. And it was. It was like, okay, there's this mythical sort. It's like Scott Galloway is another person. Everyone's like, oh, you've got to take his.

So there's a little bit about the crazy professor and then what else?

But Bey, I think that when I thought about where I was at the end of the program, I think with so many more questions. Yeah, so many more, I was like, I have less of an idea as to where I'm going than when I started. And the redirection has been great.

This is the problem today in that, like, the more you learn, the more questions you have. And it's like, not a narrowing thing. It's like, wait. And it's like, I say this in class, and I'll say it again to you, is that it's like the cowbell syndrome. You can wanna be a country veterinarian giving vaccines to cows, and you can wanna ring the bell on the. On the NASDAQ when your company goes public. And you want both of those things at once because the more you learn, the more you think, gosh, both those paths seem really cool to me. And it's. It's crazy. You can just be lost.

And I thought the. Just the importance of. I mean, I went into the class knowing and having learned in the final weeks of the program, the final year, going to a recruitment conference where it's all about embracing who you are while at the same time trying to figure out, you know, your job and what you want to do right after the. The authenticity component was so important and so impactful back in October that there was, you know, once I knew what the class was, there was no way. I couldn't. I think you might remember, but I sent an email to academic advising.

Oh, that's right. You didn't get in on. Yeah, that's right. You didn't get into. On the lottery. But you, but you advocated. All right.

Had to pull that card.

I'm so glad you got in because you were an incredible addition to the class and I love my students so much. And you were a wonderful member of the class. All right. In becoming you listeners. And we go through a process where we excavate values, we identify your aptitudes, your unique aptitudes, because you spend your whole life with people telling you what you're good at, it's very important to learn what you're actually good at. And same thing is true with values. You know, like we talked about in class, there's these four horsemen of values destruction. And they go, they go for you, they get in the way of you living by your values, like events and expedients and economics, security. And then we look at areas of interest. Now with you, your area of interest was pretty clear. I mean, to me, just having done this many, many times, I knew that you're a person who needed to be in a field that had some kind of hospitality to it. Whether it would be restaurants or hotels, it didn't really seem to matter. I mean, just looking at you from the outside, you had a natural love and an affinity for the hospitality industry. And so for when we got to that third sphere, when we're talking about all the different megatrends that are coming in, AI and quantum mechanics and all these other things, you weren't a student for whom this was like the screaming out, but you did do hard work around values and aptitude. So let's talk about that process, if you don't mind.

Absolutely.

So reflect on the values discovery process for us.

First of all, probably the deepest, I think that what we uncovered in values excavation was, it was the part where I was holding a mirror to my face and I was like, who is this person? It's you. And yet, like, I was seeing myself in a brand new light for the first time. When we did the exercise where we had a number of index cards that we had to. Oh, my God, it was brutal.

That's. I know, that's brutal. That's that. But friends, that's value solitaire, which is a game that I play with my students, which involves writing down, answering a bunch of prompts about what matters to you and people who matter to you, and then one by bit by bit, you start removing cards from the deck. I don't do this exercise. I don't do it in my book. And I don't do it on Instagram. I don't do it anywhere because I and Michael push back if you think I'm wrong. I feel like it needs to be facilitated because it's emotionally exhausting. It's emotionally daunting. People really lose it. People cry, people, it is hard. And so I actually keep that one very close. And it was invented by Alexis Kinney, who was a PhD student when she created it at James Madison University. I found it reading the clinical psychology literature. I've adapted it and I work with her, but all props to her, she's a genius. She uses it in her private practice now, and she uses it in clinical settings where people are overcoming addiction, largely. But in other settings, she has asked me, do you think we should put this out into the world? And, and tell me if I'm wrong. It needs to be facilitated, don't you think?

I think that the pressure of it, that it is, I think, kind of done. Almost blind.

Yeah.

Makes it so that you feel, you know, I mean, we only have a few minutes to decide what's really important.

That's right.

And making that, those decisions under press, I think that you then really clearly see, well, what is it that's really important to you?

It's a forcing exercise. That's right. Because you know what if we don't have a forcing exercise, we can go around saying everything's a little bit important to us or everything's a lot a bit important to us. And at a certain moment we have to make the trade offs. And that's what that exercise forces you to do. And there's actually people who have asked me many times to make a digital version of becoming you. And I resist it because a lot of this stuff is so difficult that to do it alone in a room doesn't make sense to me. I mean, I'm actually having, by the way, friends. I'm having a little three day version of becoming you coming up in New York for non NYU students by popular demand. And I will play that I will do. Play that game. Game. We will do that exercise. What did you discover in doing that exercise? What did you find out about yourself that you did not know? How old are you, by the way?

I am 29.

Okay.

So that last year before 30, I get to start saying that soon.

Get over it. Okay, get, get over it. Where's my little tiny violin? Okay.

I'm kind of excited.

Excited.

What did I learn in that one? And I think all the exercises that followed, I think uncovering your Values is one thing. I think the harder part is realizing where values I had were at odds with.

Yeah. So like give us an example.

So I think being very altruistically motivated and valuing, helping other people and then also being, and not valuing my own economic motivations as much. And that being very low right. In extracting my values made me realize that I was putting others first. Where I would have done so much better in life, in many situations had I been a little bit more self serving. And I was like, you know, I mean, I don't know. That goes to deeper questions and I think a deeper history of just come. I mean, I think being born, raised Catholic, I was always taught to forgive and to give a lot more of myself to others. And it's hard for me to say out loud, you know, I want to put myself first and that, you know, I started to see how that had been affecting me in the workplace where, you know, there was a, there was a key moment in time where I, again, I could have been more economically motivated because I do value balance. I value working four days a week, not five in this industry. And I took a promotion that was also effectively, you know, it was less money for the promotion with more benefits. And it just, it didn't align with my values. And I know it. At the same time, you got to.

Know what your values are. I mean, it's like, okay, the thing about it is we kind of live by habit or we live by instinct or we live by like, okay, you know, I also was born to a family where a Catholic grandmother was there. And we used to say martyrs rule from the grave because just the martyrdom was a great family trait. And you give and you give and you give. And then you wonder, why does this hurt so much? Well, because you got another value you're actually not living by. And so you had to, you got to have a reckoning where you see where the trade offs are, are. And then, then when somebody asks you to do something, you go through your mind, you know, does this line up with my values instead of just having that gut habitual response to it. So where'd you come out with the values?

I, I've set a goal to say no more. I mean, in the, in, you know, thinking about just, I think needing to be more self serving in a productive way. Some of the values I think have helped me, you know, in the interview process, thinking about also just like, I think what I bring to an organization or a company being very low in regulatory speaks to the fact that I just love being creative. And although I respect rules and those.

Who need to talk. Okay, let's talk. Let's talk about this. Okay, so we. You are actually segueing beautifully into aptitudes. In aptitudes, we find out a lot about our personalities. We do a lot of testing for this. I talk a lot about in my book, which is coming in May, by the way. And you and I have one very, very shared trait we both spiked on it, which is that we think rules are for other people. And I mean, if I say I see a rule, I want to rewrite the rule. I mean, it's crazy, okay? It's like, if I hear how something is done, I say, is there another way to do it? It's in me and it's in you, right? And this, in some ways, makes you incredibly valuable to organizations. But if you're in a bureaucracy, you are debt, okay? You are you. They bureaucracies don't like this. My problems with Harvard a lot when I was working there, because I was constantly coming up with new ways to do things that were not inside the rules. Okay, so when you found that about yourself. We found that out in the. In one of the tests that we did. When you found it out, did you have this moment of like, oh, my God, I am so seen.

It made me, like, think back to bosses who had let me live outside the box. And I was like, well, I'm really, really grateful for those environments where now I understand that I need an environment wherein I can say, okay, like, if we are to get this done in any way, some rules are going to have to be broken. And this is just my, you know, mo. And there were places I worked where there was a way that was. I mean, where was.

Where it was respected and desired and appreciated, and it wasn't seen as a threat. Friends, friends, friends, friends, listening. Okay, listen. This is why we do the work of becoming you. Because when we come to understand ourselves, then we have a language to say to a boss, Let me tell this thing. Let me tell you this thing about me. I am. I'm all about the organization, but I'm all about creatively getting to the organization's goals. Is that good with you? Is that cool with you? That I'm not being naughty, I'm not being adversarial, I'm not being rogue. I am being creative. And this is. This is my superpower. Does it belong at this organization or not? I mean, and it helps you when you're looking at organizations that you're going to join. Like, yeah, I like that boss. And I love their product. But man, I am going to be so at odds with the aptitudes that they want and the values that they have. Because there's, look, there's blending between aptitudes and values. Because the thing is, when you really like something, like you and I are both like this highly creative with the rules types, it ends up becoming a value because you're so good at it and you sort of like come to defend it. So yeah. What else did you find out about yourself on the aptitudes front?

Found out. I mean the. I think also there was another motivator. I think on that same test, the aesthetic motivator off the charts is very, very high for me. And I think it comes from the art background. But also that that motivator was tricky because it was about balance and harmony. And it was, it told me something that I kind of, I guess knew innately. But I was like, oh, wow. I think it said that this kind of a person.

Is easily swayed or rather they can see multiple sides to the story, any story. And they want as much harmony and peace among all of the players. Which, you know, I think to speak very lightly, it's geopolitically just a very hard time. And I find myself very much again trying to establish harmony, harmony and find common ground for, you know, all people and everyone in any situation. And that applies to me in so many different rooms.

And look, it's so important. Like, so this, this value, I happen to call it beholderism. There's, it can be called aesthetic value. And this is about how you value harmony in your physical environment, in your emotional environment, and actually even like in your personal environment. Like how you look, okay, like I will not leave the house looking assertive. This is of high beholderism. And you know, you can sort of take it as well. Isn't this very self centered? But in fact it's a real trait, it's a real value. Things have kind of got to look right and they got to feel right. I need my wah, I need my feng shui and so forth. And this is a real value. The trees in this case are as important as the forest, which is this kind of self knowledge is critical in understanding what your career path should look as.

Let's talk about where this self knowledge is leading you right now with your career path. Because when you did your area of transcendence analysis, what did you put at the center of that circle? And at the center of the circle is the overlap of Your values, your aptitudes and your areas of interest. When we created that together and you told the narrative, the 40 year narrative of your life is just what we do in the last day of class. What was your story and what did you. Where did you land?

I landed on at the center was I want to be the leader of an LGBTQ + ERG at a company. Ideally that would be in wine or spirits at, you know, an LVMH or something of the sort. Because that's, you know, just this life of envision. But I think you remember the tagline. It was. But I could also do this at consumer Health group or another firm that is completely, completely unrelated to what the past has brought because I think you also remember from that exorcist. My life was very episodic. I think each point in time was so disconnected from the other because there are so many different lives I thought I could live. But at the 1, I think the area of transcendence was this place where I could be of service to my community members in the workplace in a way that, that just needs to be there no matter what I'm doing.

I think you're defining value as non sibi, which is helping others. And I think that this is drives you, you. And I think that it's contained now by your understanding of your values around enoughism, money and about achievement, which is right. You know, you have a high need for achievement. What was your Enneagram, by the way?

It was type 2 helper, helper, helper, helper all the way. And it was by a large margin. I think enthusiasts came next. Which on the Enneagram, I think I.

By the way, Enneagram, is this a tool that we use? It's 14 online. Go take it right now. It will teach you so much about yourself. I was a doubter on the Enneagram when I first started teaching it. I mean, the first year I taught it, I told my students, this counts 5%. That's a boy now. I love it so much. I'm almost like a junkie about it. I'm like, I've joined the Enneagram cult. And hey, if you've got, if you're a person who's got 60 hours to kill, just take your Enneagram and then go, go to YouTube and type it in. There's a rabbit hole with no end. I mean, I've spent a lot of time in that rabbit hole. But you were so the helper. It goes to this value. We spoke about, about non sibi about this it's almost an compulsion to help others. Okay.

Yeah.

It's in some people and it's not in others. Okay. And then you marry that with the enthusiast, which is just sort of wanting to try new things. Right?

Yeah. And that was second for me. And I don't know that anyone. I think some people in the class thought that you are one and only one type. And I was like, I'm a little bit of both of them generally.

I mean, the real Enneagram diehards say you're one and stop and get over yourself, you're one. But I've definitely seen students present saying, I feel both of these. So I. I'm going to take the fifth on this one. I. Because the people who say you're one and only one are very smart.

Yeah. I think it's where they are in relation to one another. I think, as with every exercise, it's not just about, you know, the individual parameters or any motivator or aptitude you're being rated on, but kind of how, again, they come together in this mosaic. The Enneagram. I mean, the enthusiast. I see for myself as someone who loves learning and immersing myself in, you know, all a new topic, like when there's something new, whether it's a new wine region as a sommelier or give.

Us a wine recommendation.

Since we got you here, it is summertime. I. I hate to say it, but I love all day and you know.

I want to tell you something. What's wrong with them? I mean, gets all this hate. Last night, two days ago, I went out with my daughter. I had a glass of sparkling. I was like, what is wrong with me? I should be drinking sparkling rose, like three times a day. Okay. Then I'd be like, okay. Then there would be something wrong with me. But okay. So Rose, what else? Like what? No, what kind of rose?

So I would say with Rose, you've got to be open minded and you've got to drink something outside of Provence, like leave the whispering angel at home. It's delicious. You can put ice cubes in it. I've done it as well. But I see everybody in this room.

Smiling so knowingly for a reason.

It is absolutely delicious. And I think that rose, like, can sometimes it can be that and it should be that, but there are other. I mean, you're Italian and some of my favorite roses are from Italy. There's one cheddar swallow. I'll leave that one for the group.

I want to just say that when did becoming you become a wine podcast? I don't know, but I'm digging it. Okay. Yeah.

Wine edition. It's this east eastern Abruzzo is the region. It's grape. Oh, my God. I think it's a Montepulciano, the grape. And it pours so deep red that I could trick you into thinking it's a red, but it's a rose.

I hope everybody, we'll put this in the show now.

It's like a fuchsia color, and it's just, just, it's so refreshing, so fun. It's good with food. Like if you're at the chop house or you're, you know, on the pet. It's just an interesting Roseanne. It's a different one. I say just try them from places outside of France. France has good, great roses. But you got to be, I mean, you've got to, as with this class, you've got to, you know, open your mind to what could be.

What could be. I love it. That's a great. That's a great segue back because I was getting worried. Now, let's say, let's get one last question with you because then I want you to stay and help me answer some of the questions from the audience. Of all the things you learned about yourself in the becoming you process, what surprised you the most?

How important I think family is? Family came up quite a bit. And it was not just who family is because I obviously have my, you know, my mom, dad, my seven younger brothers and sisters. I mean, a huge family being the oldest, but also what, you know, I think chosen family is and how important people are. I mean, people, you know, say all the time. But the best part of the MBA program and I think the class was the people who made it. And so I learned the most. And what surprised me, that always surprised me in business school was how much I had in common with people who at the surface level on the resume looks different. So different.

Hey, so what is the thing about family you remember from class? What I say is that everyone says family is a value, but what's really important for you and for everybody who's listening is that you have to have a reckoning with yourself about how much family really is important to you. And it's okay if it's not. I mean, I have no judgment. Okay. Unless you're hurting somebody and, you know, family, you can come from a very dysfunctional family background and say, I've said family is important, but I want to move away from that value because all it does is hurt me. Or you can Be like you and say, look, you know what I have realized, like my family, I'm not going to ever put them second because this keeps coming up in all the exercises. So family is like every other value, including money, which is the most important thing is we get straight with ourselves about what its level, what its intensity is in our life. That's a whole part of the process. I'm so glad you're here. I could talk to you 24 hours a day.

Write me all the time on my social media. Thank you for doing that. If you're somebody who's done it and I endeavor to answer their questions. We've got a few minutes left. Let's have one question from the audience and we'll see what Michael has to say about it as well. Go ahead. This question is actually really relevant to the conversation right now. The question is, how can values and aptitudes be used to bring your best self to areas outside of work? So my immediate reaction to this is they can't not do that because values and aptitudes are in you. Okay? And you've got certain values and you've got certain aptitudes, and you're going to bring them to everything. If you're a volunteer, you're going to bring them there. And the great thing about knowing your values and aptitudes, the greatest thing is the authenticity of them. Right? I mean, isn't that what you get from me? It's like this is, you said this great line, which is, this was a great self portrait of you, and that once you have your self portrait, you bring it everywhere. I mean, I'm on boards, and sometimes I'm on corporate boards. And I am trying to be a different version of Susie because Susie is not your typical corporate board member. And then I think they know who I am. They put me on this board for who I am. I mean, what do you think, Michael? Like, do you. You bring your true self everywhere?

Absolutely. And there's this saying, I think in many restaurants and managers have said before, you've got to check who you are at the door. And in many ways, you know, I can't disagree with that more because you are exactly. You bring your values, your aptitudes to work. I mean, boundaries are important. I think that knowing and having a greater understanding of what I value helps me determine, you know, the time I'm spending at work. And, you know, what can I, you know, get from my job and what can't I, you know, I'm not in a place where I can, you know, Create. I don't. When I work, I can't really create art. And so knowing that I have this creative output and I value aesthetics, I value nice things, I have to, outside of work, you know, you know, apply myself creatively in different ways, whether that's painting at home or, you know, finding other ways to.

This is a great point. Yeah, this is a great point because if you are not able to bring your values and aptitudes to work, I'm sorry, that's too bad. But then make sure that they are fully flexing at home or someplace else. Although I would prefer all of you to have a life where your values and aptitudes are spread over every piece of your life. And sometimes that's a journey to get to. All right, thank you, whoever wrote that. Appreciate. By the way, I got a. I have. One of my Followers is a PhD student in England, I believe, and, and she does work on why and how we make decisions and how hard it is to change our minds. And I asked her to look at her research the other day and I read it this morning because I wake up at 5 o' clock and I go, okay, nobody's around for me to talk to. So I read this research at 5 in this morning. It's so good, I'm going to assign it in my, in my managerial class. And this is the beauty of social media, if you ever get mad of it. I would never know about this research if I hadn't had. So this is a tangent of absolutely no origin except for. Except for I just remembered it. And I am so grateful for people who write in, like this book. Person who wrote in this question. Okay, that was my point. Let's see if they can stump us. Michael, let's have one or two questions where you try to stump, stump me and then we'll try to stump. Michael, what do we got? When you think of the one that got away, what do you think of? When you think of the one that got away, what do you think of?

Oh, God, I know so much. All right, we can think. We can think. All right. Do you have one?

I have maybe too many. I think. I think I love it.

Go ahead, spill the tea.

I don't know. I. I think about. This is going to be crazy. I think about. There's two that come to mind. I think about one that happened in October. I went to Rhomba and Procter and Gamble, I think had invited me to go and I was just like, I don't want to. I don't know if I want to work there. And like, you know, I just had, like that. I just, I had that doubt and I didn't go to the Internet. You know, I enjoyed other things about Rumba and other.

What is Rumba?

Rumba is reaching out. Mba. So it's one of, I think many. There are many conferences that happen for. For MBAs.

Yes.

Recruiting.

Okay.

Very. I think heavily for the full timers. As a part timer, you're sort of floating around, but they. A lot of companies, Deloitte, all the consulting firms, big ones. They all.

So it's a big recruiting thing. Okay. And you didn't go.

I did go.

And then. But you didn't go get interviewed at P and G. No.

Even though they said, we think that you should come to our booth and do that. And I was like, why didn't I do that?

Why didn't you do it?

I don't know why I didn't do it.

But you know what? I'm not sure.

I think I would have.

I think it's in Cincinnati. I'm not seeing it.

I don't know that I would have. You know, I'm such a New Yorker. I don't know that I would have been happy working for any of those brands, I think now.

But they would have loved you and needed you. It might have been an interesting muscle for you to develop.

I wish I had done the interview. I wish I had taken that. Because what I learned from the class was that there isn't any opportunity I ever want to pass up as, you know, not being a possibility. I think I, you know, learned to be very industry agnostic in, you know, the current moment I'm at, in my career, such knowing what I value, the other one that got away. And really, this is the one that I is not saying no. When I was offered the promotion, you know, I was making good money. I was working a better, more flexible schedule. It was more aligned with where I was at the time. And the real one that, you know, I think always gets away from me is the opportunity to say no, because.

I want to say, oh, that's such a good line.

I want it to happen.

I mean, sometimes, right? Sometimes where the mistake is not saying no.

When your boss comes to you and says, like, you know, we need you. Like, I put my notice in and. And they were like, oh, we don't want you to leave. Like, we'd like to promote you. I could have, you know, very easily said, thank you so much for that consideration. I, you know, just. I. This position does not value it. Doesn't line up with what I.

You hadn't taken becoming you yet.

I hadn't taken.

Okay? I know what got away from me. When I was at HBS, they recruited me to get my PhD to stay two more years, finish up and get my PhD. And I said no, because why? Money. I went to go get the money at Bain. I needed money, okay? We were desperate. And now here I am at 64 getting my PhD. Good freaking Lord. I mean, it is so much harder now. Why didn't I just stay and do it? And I remember the professor who was recruiting me just sitting on the stairs. We were sitting on the stairs at hbs, and him shaking his head, saying, you're going to be an academic someday, Susie. Why don't you just do it now? They knew me better than I knew myself. Dumb. Okay, well, I. So that one got away. And that's a great question. And I think we're. We're out of time, my friends. And please come back next week to becoming you. I love that you're here, and we're very, very excited about all of you being here and our beautiful numbers of listeners. It's very exciting. And so stay with us and thanks for joining us on Becoming you. Michael Lopez, I am so happy that you came when we asked, and thank you for being here and talking about becoming you with us. And I'll see everybody next week. Susie Welch. Bye. Bye. Love you so much. Okay.