Every Successful Person Is A Complete Failure (First) with Karissa Bodnar

Foreign.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to becoming you with Susie Welch. But, oh, my God, not just Susie Welch this time, and not just Pierre. Okay. Although many of you are here for Pierre, much to my chagrin, as I found out out in the wild that people just are like, how's Pierre? All the time? But I have the best guest on today and somebody who I know incredibly well, Chris Abodner, who's a super superstar makeup entrepreneur and CEO. She runs. She founded and runs Thrive Cosmetics. Look, becoming you is the show about what you should do with your life and figuring out what you should do with your life. And I don't know any poster child better for answering that question than Krissa. And I love her and respect her and revere her and like her and all those other things. We were just downstairs talking before the show started, and she said, I want to tell our love story. Which I'm like, I'm all in. You got to tell that. And I'm going to chime in and talk over you, because that's what I do. But it's a great story of friendship and a great story of, dare I say it, mentorship, because you've been a mentor to me and maybe I have been one to you. And that's the beautiful thing about women in business and men in business as well, is that we watch each other and learn from each other, support each other and encourage each other, but also we think about how we should live and why we should live the way we do. And you are case in point. So without further ado, Krista, welcome to the Becoming youg podcast. I. I am ridiculously happy you're here.

I am so excited to be here. Susie, it was a decade ago that we met. Yeah, and nearly a decade ago. And you changed my life. You flew out to my one bedroom apartment in Seattle, Washington, in Lower Queen Anne. You were with me for multiple days, really telling the most beautiful, robust story of my business. And it aired on the Today Show. Kathy Lee and Hoda. At the time, it was Kathy Lee and Hoda. And you truly changed my life. Not just with that segment, because it aired the Monday before Thanksgiving and Black Friday. We did $40,000 in sales that day, which for us, just to set the stage, I was shipping the products out of my apartment, my one bedroom apartment, walking them up to USPS at the time. And you made us look like we were the biggest brand in the world. I remember you walked in. So just. And to take it back just a little bit.

The produce shoe Pak.

Yes.

The great Lana shoe.

Yes. Lana sent me a note and said, I have a really special person for you to meet. Her name is Susie Welch, and I think you're going to get along really well. And I remember we had a pre conversation. I asked you what you liked for food. You told me you were vegan. And we had this whole bonding around animals because we both love rescuing animals. And it was. And so I just. I'll never forget, when you walked in, I did your makeup before the segment. It was so, so fun. We went to Ronald McDonald's.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was. Which is one of our longtime giving partners. And after that, you really took me under your wing. When I used to come out to New York, I was living on an air mattress not too far from where we are today at my friend's house on the Upper east side. And you and Jack invited me over for Father's Day when I was here. I mean, you guys were. You guys were so sweet.

Well, we believed in you. And I want to just say the. For those of you who have been living in a cave for 10 years and not aware of what Thrive Cosmetics does. Thrive Cosmetics has an unbeliev underlying mission. It's different than other makeup companies. Why don't you explain how that is?

Yes. So from the very beginning, we donate every time somebody purchases. And we have donated over $150 million in both funds. We have scholarship funds. He's very excited about this.

I mean, right now, Pierre is about to have his body donated to science right now because of what's going on over there. All right, this is just the. The. I'm sorry, the nature of the beast here, but go on. All right, so every single time somebody makes a purchase of Thrive Cosme, you donate to a woman who's recovering from. Who's in cancer treatment or recovery. Correct.

When I met you, we had one cause, and that was cancer that has since grown to eight causes, which includes education, domestic violence. So when I talk about our scholarship funds, that's a huge pillar for us. Under resource Youth, veterans and their families. It's massive. We have over 600 charities that we've worked with since I started the business. And that really is a testament to our community of customers who nominate these nonprofits. And yes, we've donated a million mascara to Dress for Success. Literally over a million mascaras.

It's just crazy. And also, by the way, Thrive Cosmetics Mascara, second to none. Okay? Second to none.

It has won a Grammy, AKA and Allure Best of Beauty.

It's just unbelievable. It is. So I want to say, and if I didn't have fake eyelash extensions, I would wear it, because that's what you give up is that. But I remember before I did those. That is. It is fit, and everyone agrees it's the greatest.

What should the Suzy be when we. Because we name all our products after inspiring people, what product would you. Would you dream of that we should make?

Let's ask my team. What should the Susie. I know, Jorge, you probably have a strong opinion about this. What. What should the Suzy as a makeup product be? I'm a lipstick, a gloss. You know, long ago, like, when I was 14 years old, I saw Dolly Parton say, and Dolly Parton, my great hero, say, you always need to be wearing a little bit of gloss. And that was it. That's all I needed to hear. Okay. And I, like, literally will not leave the house without a gloss.

Okay. Do we have a tone we're looking for?

I'm always, like, kind of a nude lipstick, since you must know. Okay.

So, okay, I'm taking notes.

All right? But I want to point out one thing to our listeners, which is that you're an incredibly successful company, as you should be, because your products are so fantastic and your aim is so true. You know, you could have made, what do you think, Twice the money if you'd not been giving so much away. Sure. I love it. It's insane. Okay. When people.

I don't really care, though, if I'm being honest. You know, that's not what it's about.

That's right. Okay, so let us return to becoming you for a moment and talk about values. Because, look, the becoming you methodology is basically says that what you should be doing with your life, to be in your area of transcendence, which you most certainly are, in what we call your area of transcendence is at the intersection of your deeply held values, your extremely pronounced aptitudes, what you're good at, and your interests. Think about it. You're so, like. All right, let's just take the easy ones. First, your interest. You've always been interested in beauty and makeup. It's where you started. You're fascinated by it. It interests you on a scientific level. Like, you know, let the history show that when you first started making products, you were in your kitchen, right? With, like, products. Like a scientist mixing them up. Right? I mean, like, you were using a blender to make some of your first products, were you not? Yes. Okay. So you're fascinated by the chemistry of it and the transformation it has in people's lives. When they use it. And then in terms of aptitudes, you're just very good at all the things it takes to grow a makeup company. I mean, I've just known you for a long time, so I can say you're very creative, you're very innovative, you're very focused. You know how to build a great team around you. You're very inspiring. All things are, like, absolute 100% founder, transition to CEO type traits. But you're also good at makeup. You're just good at makeup. Like, you just know what looks good. I remember when you did my makeup 10 years ago, and I was just thinking, is there a way to adopt her? I mean, it was just like, you know, it was like a very beautiful. But let's talk about your values, because that's the part that drives this whole area of transcendence train for you. And it's like you just said this thing where you said, yeah, I could have made twice as much money, but that's not what it's all about. And people say that all the time, that it's really about giving back. But, man, if anybody's ever walked that talk, it's you. So talk about, like, where that comes from or, like, how you felt that impulse, because people have a lot of trouble getting in touch with their actual values. They do. Just take my word for it. You didn't, but people generally do. Even I have. So go ahead and talk about that.

You know, I think it's a. It really is a continuum, because with the success, I actually got a lot of imposter syndrome. I. I had a lot of really strong instincts in the beginning, as you saw. And. And I really appreciate you saying that. And I've actually had to come back to myself multiple times because I think it's really easy to get high on your own supply.

What was your imposter syndrome about?

I say this as a person who's never smoked weed, by the way.

Me neither. All right, so what I know my. To my kids. Everlasting sugar. And, like, would you get high with this, mom? I'm like, no. Why would I start now? I'm so. But I would say, what was the imposter syndrome about?

I think so. You know, I started the business, and for the first three years, I didn't even have enough money to pay myself, let alone another employee. And so I was doing everything myself. And I was 24 when I started, so I didn't have strong management skills or leadership skills beyond what was intuitively within me.

Right.

And what I Realized is that you have to play to your strengths as a leader. And so I started reading all these books and I started being a student of the game. And I really appreciate all of that. I joined CEO groups.

Yeah.

And that made me think that I needed to be a certain way in order to be a great leader for the company. Because I care so deeply.

Yeah.

About the team and the culture of the company. And I've made a lot of mistakes. And so I think I was so insular to the business. I was working 24 7.

Yeah.

Never getting out. Pretty much over since the business really took off.

Right.

Right. At the end of the day, 2016. And so it caused me to have a lower self esteem which then negative. Negatively impacted the team. Right. And so through that journey, though, I wouldn't trade it for the world because through that journey I've been able to become myself again.

Right.

And really lean into who I am. People want to work for somebody if they want to work with me.

Yeah.

They're not going to get the best strategic planning CEO in the world.

Right.

But I actually feel like I am the best CEO. I deeply believe that I am the best CEO for Thrive Cosmetics as well as bigger than beauty Skincare, now our second brand.

Yeah.

Because I know the boiling point for the company. Yeah. You guys seen? I am. Brian Chesky says this. I think he says you're the. You're the maternal parent.

Right.

For the company.

You know your customer so well. On some level. I want to just unpick a few things that you said. Number one, I think it's important for listeners to understand that you did not come from a big business family where you were like looking at your mom and dad running businesses. My memory is your dad was a principal of a school. Yeah.

He was a school administrator. He started as an elementary school teacher and worked his way up. And you know, my dad grew up on food stamps. His. His mother immigrated here from Germany and he created an amazing life for me. I grew up on a farm.

Right.

My mom was. Is incredible. And they really reinforced acts of service as a core value for us. When I was a kid, I was cleaning churches and.

Yeah.

You know, performing music at those churches and feeding people in soup kitchens. That was what.

But it felt good to you. It must have because that's.

Yeah.

When people ask me. So in the becoming you lexicon, we call this impulse to give back. We call it non sibi, not for yourself. Okay. And when people say, how do I know how much non sibi I have? I say it's really simple. Does it feel good to give back? Does it feel good? Like, sometimes you do it because you have to, but for some people, it just feeds them, and it must have just fed you because you were starting this company with nothing. I remember on the set of the Today show saying to you, like, how much money do you have in the bank? As you were beginning, you were like, at this moment, zero. I mean, you had nothing, okay? But you had belief in the product. But this belief that this would really work with no guile, with no gaming, the system, that if you sold a product and gave away a product at the same time, it was all going to work out. It must have felt good to you, I think, or you just. And I think if somebody had said to you at that point, and I don't think I did, but if somebody said you at that point, what if that giving one away doesn't work anymore? You would have said, well, then the company doesn't work the way I want it to work. Right? This was so fundamental to the way you started the company. You've never veered from it, right?

No, never. In fact, it's grown. That's why we. We. We donate monetary donations as well. And so, I mean, we. We do both. We call it responsive giving, and it's really whatever the charity needs. And we partner in a really bespoke, customized way with all of these nonprofits. We have a team dedicated to it. And we always say, everybody at Thrive Cosmetics is on the giving team because everybody, we, our employees, dedicate at least 10% of their time to the philanthropic aspect of the business. And, and in the same token, we can't just be giving away. We have to be creating excellent products. We always say.

I was just going to say, looking into your face is quite difficult because it's so beautiful. But I would say that your makeup is so good. I'm sorry to be obsessing on this, but the thing about it is you've got these very kind of what might be called noble aspirations, but for you, it was just good business and it just all worked as a piece, right?

It's my motivation. It's why I do what I do. I. I would have quit. I mean, I didn't have sales. Besides the fabulous Today show piece and, And a few other moments, there were days where I, for those first three years that I didn't have sales, I would have quit if I hadn't donated. I actually donated a thousand pairs of lashes and a thousand adhesive. Like when you met galen at Ronald McDonald. I remember she was one of those first people.

Yeah.

And she's still. She's now a namesake for us. She is somebody who still still integral to really inspiring me.

Yeah.

So to me, I can't put a price on how much that has inspired me and really healed me in ways I didn't even know I needed.

Wow.

So for me, the cause has really changed my life more than I could. I mean, that's why I don't love focusing on the numbers, because one of my favorite quotes is by Ralph Waldo Emerson, which is to know that one life is breathed easier because you have lived is to have succeeded.

I have a question for you. Because we can start to not be breathing our own smoking, our own supply. Is that what it is here? I want to talk about your other values besides getting back. Like, what else do you. I mean achievement, which is a core personal value in the becoming U lexicon. I mean, some people have more of it, some have less of it. I mean, how much did you want to be a CEO? Also, like, how much did you want to achieve? How much did you want to. Because, look, without a doubt you've got very high levels of non civvie, which is giving back, and I think extremely high levels of what we call radius, which is if your life was a bomb and it was dropped on the earth, how big a footprint would it leave? Right. And I think you want that. I mean, if you didn't have it and you were still doing good, you'd be happy. But you must have on some level desired it. But what about achievement? Is that a value of yours of being kind of known for being great at something? Yes.

And that is something that has been really. That helped me develop self esteem when I was in high school.

Yeah.

My first product that I ever made was when I was 16. My first ever commercial product. And so for me, it's a slippery slope, Susie.

Yeah.

Because I can get obsessive about that. And then my. I used to say my. My self esteem is driven based on revenue and ebitda. That's not how.

But you don't. You know why? No. You know why? I'm gonna just push back and say, you know why it's pushed by. By those. Because those are validation. And what you seek is validation, safety. Right, exactly.

It makes sure that my people are paid.

That's right. But I think you value money in as much as it makes your people comfortable and have financial security. I don't think it's for you knowing.

You take care of my parents. If I can. Yeah. No. Take care of my grandpa. That. No. To me, that's what it's about.

Yeah.

Beyond that, I really don't care. And I feel really privileged that I know that.

Yeah. Right.

I would say other values that I have are community. I. Something that I deeply need in my life are friends.

Friends.

Yeah. I always say my greatest leadership advice now.

Yeah.

Is have friends.

Yeah.

That are not in your business.

I have to tell you, I gave the graduation speech at NYU Business School this year, and I got up there and I said, please don't network. Networking is a waste of your time. Just make friends. Make friends. And I think that's what happened to us. I like when we got out there, we just assumed we were going to be friends, and we just liked each other a lot. And then here's the trick. You have to stay friends. I mean, staying friends and becoming. Being a friend. I actually wanted to. Very much wanted to teach a class called Becoming Friends. So I teach Becoming you. I want to come and I. Yeah. I wanted to teach a class about how to be. And I actually did the whole proposal for it, and I got the approval of my department and then. And I actually got two research fellows on this idea of becoming friends. How do we do that? How do we teach people to be friends? Because that's probably one of the greatest gifts we could give people getting out of school, you know, along with teaching them how to make decisions, how to be a good friend, and then somehow becoming you as a. Just a concept and a methodology itself took off and becoming. But I will come back to it because I do think, like. For, like, you, I have. I don't call this so much community as I call it belonging, that you want to belong to something that's bigger than you. And it's sometimes family gives that to us, but sometimes it doesn't, because for many people, family is very fraught. I remember how freeing it was one day when I was in church years and years ago when it was Father's Day, and the pastor said, I want to acknowledge that there are people in this room for whom Father's Day is a very painful event. And I thought, thank God we can say that out loud, that family is not always, you know, brings us. Does not always bring us joy and happiness. For some people, it's a. You know, family is a traumatizing or difficult thing. But friends, which we can let go of when they start, like family, we cannot ever let go of. But like friends, who we can let go of if it's not serving our heart anymore are so valuable. And to have. Like, I have this theory around friends, which I bet you share, which is that every friend is a tile in the mosaic of your life, and not any tile alone is the whole picture, but you have this beautiful, beautiful mosaic. These are the dogs trying to get in because they want to be friends with us. And I think that it's. That you're one of my tiles, and you're a big tile. But I would say that you know this collection of friends, and that is good leadership advice to your team. And I bet. Let me ask. Maybe I'm wrong. Is your leadership team and the people who work at your company, are they friends with each other?

I believe so, yes. And the. I think the key is, as a CEO, letting that happen and still being a part of building the culture and building the community and also really keeping your boundaries.

Yeah.

Because to me, I mean, there was a point where, when we were first coming up as a business, where I was Airbnb with our team, and that is not a good boundary when you're running a company of. Of. Of this size. This now. Of this size.

Right, right.

I. I don't. I don't regret it. And. But I guess what I'm saying is I. I think because I was in my 20s, I was. I was young, I would befriend employees in a way that was not healthy because I was responsible for their livelihood, and that's on me.

Right.

And so now, I mean, I remember one time I was at all hands, and I said, your manager is not your friend.

Right.

And. And people were really, like, struck by that. But let me tell you why.

Right.

Let me tell you what they like a mother.

Right.

I love you.

Right.

I love you so unconditionally, and I believe in you so much, and I do not expect you to love me back.

Right.

I'm not. I'm not looking for love in all the wrong places anymore. But there was a point where I was. And so I love that our team members are friends. Nothing makes me happier. But I do try to have a really strong boundary with them because I've made those mistakes, and it's just not fair to them.

Yeah. I have to tell you a story that you'll relate to. One time, I had a management expert to my class. I teach a class called Managerial Skills. And she and I were talking. We're both old hands at this. And I said offhandedly, I said to her, because, you know, at the end of the day, Emily, management is an act of Love. And she said, yeah, it really is. Blah, blah, blah. We kept on talking and then we looked up at the audience, the class at the same time, and they were literally in a complete state of shock. And they're all the hands shot up and they were like, management is not an act of love. You have to have boundaries. And she and I were both like, absolutely. But if you're a good manager, you must love your people.

Just like they can feel it.

But it doesn't mean the parenting analogy is not a bad one. It doesn't mean that you can't say you're really screwing up here and you're letting the team down and you're letting me down because of these pre discussed topics around performance and values. Right. It's not like I'm coming out of the blue. We're running a business here. We have to stay alive for all of us. But you have to. If you're a manager, a leader, and you don't have some kind of profound love for your team and desire to see them succeed, just get out, get out of it.

And I meet CEOs all the time and I'm like, oh, you're a CEO, you must love people. And they like grimace.

Yes. Well.

And these are people running massive companies. Oh, okay. Well, okay. Yeah. You know that. That's your journey, not mine.

Yeah.

But I think I want to come back to what you were saying because I remember reading Winning after you and Jack sent it to me.

Yeah.

And one of our values, one of our core values at the company is candor is kind.

Yeah.

And Brene Brown. Yeah. Brene Brown says that, you know, clear is kind, unclear is unkind.

Right.

And so if you aren't giving them the target. And I can always do a better job at this.

Yeah.

But that's why people need their KPIs. That's why they need their goals, they need deadlines and people. And just like that, that parenting analogy is like, they're going to be upset with you.

Right. They are. But a hard truth is always better than a soft lie, people. I mean, like, we get ourselves. It's like a Jane Austen novel. Like when I read Jane Aust and everybody was loving it, loving it. And I was like, why don't these people just say the truth to each other? This book would be four pages long. I mean, it's. And that's the way, you know, like, you've got to have this sort of candid clarity with your, with your team. I mean, I think that's why you've been such a success. There's. In this incredible success story. Has there ever been a moment where you thought, I failed or I've screwed up terribly, or there's. Has there ever been, like, a moment where you thought, it's not going straight to the sky?

Oh, of course. I mean, every once a month, you know, I mean. I mean. I mean, how much time do you have? I mean. Yeah. I mean, if I. I mean, when I. The first three years were the hardest.

Yeah.

And I. What I say to myself now is that I've eaten glass for the last 11 years so much that now it tastes like a slushy. And so for me, it is. But no, in a really beautiful way. Pink has the song, Beautiful trauma.

Yeah.

That's how I feel about my journey with Thrive Cosmetics. It. I have failed so many times and I keep getting back up.

Yeah.

And because of that, those failures, I mean, I remember when I got my first cease and desist letter when I was still in my apartment and I thought the business was going to. What was it for? It was. It was for. We were using a tagline that was owned by somebody else. And so then we changed it and we were fine.

Yeah. Right.

You know what I mean? But I didn't even know what a cease and desist was. I have a PhD in what not to do. Right.

Right.

So I've learned through my mistakes and I have. I have thought that I am a failure so much.

Right.

That now I'm able to look back and say, oh, no, that was just leading you. It was leading you to the next.

Right.

So now when something happens, I'm like, okay, well, life is happening for me.

Yeah, Right. Exactly. And you just gotta power through it. I mean, I think that your first big failure and then you get onto the other side of it. It was like, huh, not as bad as I thought it was gonna be. And it sure takes you down. But then you can be such a good companion to people going through failure and just saying, this is gonna. This is going to pass. And you're gonna be so much better because of it. I'm glad to know that you are. You keep on getting through them. Take you down a little bit less than they used to. Right. Like when.

Totally.

Right. Yeah.

And you just need a good playlist. You need some Beyonce.

Yeah.

Some Jay Z and some, like, some rap music.

I know.

You know, you know, breakup music is really good for business because you're like, you can. You can get through it. You can cry.

What's your go to song?

I mean, I love Beautiful Trauma. Yeah. I. I love that there's this Jay Z song where he talks about. He says it's called Diamonds from Sierra Leone. And he talks about how difficult takes the day, impossible takes a week. I do this in my sleep. I can sell kilos of coke. I'm guessing I can sell CDs. I'm not a businessman. I business man. And so what I love about Jay Z for people is that he's teaching. I mean, I love his song God did as well, because I think he's, he's. And he's. He's saying like, we're the corner boys with the corner office.

Yeah.

And. And I think that what I love about his message is he's really subliminally giving people this business advice that's really power.

So do you value. There's a controversial core value. Controversial. I love controversial. Okay, so let me ask you this. Do you value fun?

Yes.

Do you?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes. I need fun in my life. And I didn't know that I was not fun for the last decade.

Yes.

Now I'm really fun.

Okay, tell me about it. Because I do not value fun. I've been accused of not valuing fun.

You are fun.

Really?

Yeah.

I'm sort of my own party.

We're going to a concert together.

Are we really?

We're going dancing together. I was just dancing in Central Park.

Oh.

With my love, Agape Stasinapoulos. Who? You need to know.

Okay.

She's amazing. I'm gonna see her after this.

Okay.

And we were walking through the park and we just danced. I don't even know what kind of dance it was, but we got.

Yeah, that's the thing about New York City. You can be walking around, there'll be a dance. So I did go to Heidi Klum's Halloween party and we'll go to it again this year. Oh my God. This is like the greatest achievement in my life that I wrangle invitation to that. And while I was at it, I was standing on a banquette with my good friend Peter Esterstone. Peter, are you listening? Anyway, we were standing on Bankheads. We were dressed as Daenerys and Jon Snow from Game of Thrones. And in one of the great moments, I'm obsessed with Game of Thrones and.

I wish I could have done that. Glam. Sorry.

No, it was not glam. To see a 64 year old woman with brown hair dressed as Daenerys is not a good look. But we worked hard on it. And he does not watch Game of Thrones. So we were gonna go to this party together and I said to him, you're gonna go as Jon Snow. And he said he was the one person on the face of the universe who said, who's that? And so we got him gussied up and we went and there was a banquette and Peter, who cut his teeth at Studio 54 and is incredibly cool. And I can't say he's cooler than me because virtually everyone is. And so. But he's an unbelievably cool person. And we stood on a banquette and we danced all night and I thought, well, this is what fun feels like. I could definitely do with more of this. And it was great. And I plan to do it again sometime. But I am probably the only person at that party who got up the next morning at 9am, taught a three hour class, left NYU campus, went directly to the university club and delivered a speech. And I think this definitely gets in the way of my fun quotient. But I'm glad to hear you say that. You didn't have fun for 10 years and then found fun because this is a value that I, when I do my values bridge, which is a tool that's coming out soon. As I keep on promising everybody and I say where I am with fun, it's like kind of at a 3, but I would definitely like it to be at the top number or six at least. I definitely think it's a value to.

What are we going to do?

The list is long.

Should we take a dance lesson together? I'm starting dance lessons at my house.

What kind of dancing? What kind of dancing?

2000S music videos. So we're, we're learning like Britney Spears, I'm a slave for you, NSync. Bye, bye, bye.

I got to move to LA immediately. Team, we're going to LA. I mean, like, wait, how are. Can we just get into the details with my girlfriends? So you were getting a group of girlfriends?

Yep.

And then you've hired like a dance instructor to come to your house and teach you how to dance.

Music video choreographer.

This is the benefit of living in la. I mean, I'm taught if I tried to find this person in New York.

I said, no, we can find. I did a jam session on Broadway. No, we're, we're doing this, Susie, we're doing this.

Okay, bye everybody. Because I'm going to have fun with Krista for the next five years. That is a notion. Like there is a dance studio in downtown New York where it's A guy, and he just basically has a bunch of like middle aged women who are dancing like that with him. And I've literally, like, looked up the address. Let's go. But the cringe factor for my children on everything I do is we don't do it.

We don't record. Record it. This is for fun. This. I mean, we could record it for ourselves just so we can go back and laugh. But. But this is. I don't have a dancing background. I got cut from the cheerleading squad.

The nerds like me were not even trying out for the cheerleading squad. But this is blowing my mind, this notion that you could actually put fun into your life. Please send help. I mean, I just really. I want to do this. I think it sounds fun. And I actually really love to dance. And one of the kids's highest cringe experiences of their life is there was a great cheerleading movie. I think it was called Bring it On.

Yep.

Okay. And when we would play it over and over again as kids are. Want to watch movies over and over again, I would get up and do the cheers and the kids would. They would avert their eyes. I mean, it was sad.

Well, we need. We need to take that for that fun from a 3 to a 4 to a 5. I can be your surrogate child.

Okay. Okay.

And I will gladly do it. We will dance together.

We're going to do that. All right. I don't know how we got here. How do we get here? Jorge, how are we doing on time on this becoming episode?

I need you to know.

Yes.

I actually got an HR complaint a couple of years ago for my dancing at all hands. Because it was too.

I'm just gonna say it sexual like, it was like.

Yeah. And I. What did somebody complain to hr?

And it was one of the greatest. I went to. I went. I went to our leadership team and I said, I want you to know that this is one of the best days of my life later. Because I. I am alive. I feel I am alive. And. And I will. I will own it. I will own that I'm a terrible dancer.

And.

And I am also having so much more fun than you.

I want to say that I am heartbroken. Heartbroken that somebody complained to HR about your dancing. I mean, that is a very sad.

They're no longer with the company. And it's not because of that. I think they just. I think they just didn't. They didn't have the level of.

They have so much cringe that they had to go to HR and just say, I'm Cringing out and, and they just didn't want you to dance anymore. They were just jealous of how much fun you were having with your life. All right? But you live through it and you, and you breathe through it and you're still dancing, which I really, really love. And out. And you know, I talk on the show all the time about my secret mentor. Crushes people who I'm like crushing on from afar who are really mentors to me. And sometimes I know them and sometimes I don't. But this story right now explains why you are still my mentor. And actually, again, my friends, this notion that a mentor is some like white haired guy at your company who's sort of sitting in the boardroom and is going to take you up on his stallion and gallop you off to your beautiful career is the stupidest notion in the world. Because what you should be doing is looking around you to all the people you know and saying, this is a part. Well, I love all parts of your life, but this is a part of someone's life and behavior that I want to emulate. And your. I am going to, I'm going to follow in your fun footsteps. I don't know how this podcast ended.

You're a mentor to me too. And I, I call it mutual mentorship.

Right?

To me, some of my mentors are 14. Ava from Ava's Pet palace, you know, started when she was 14 years old, started a pet food company. Someone like you who meets me so early on in my journey. I didn't, candidly, did not know who Jack Welch was when I met you.

And, and, and you were 23 year old woman from Seattle who was starting a makeup company and not, you know, following the My uncle worked for.

Gee, I'm just saying, like I, we developed a really pure relationship that had nothing to do with what I mean, you were already doing so much for me by putting me on the Today show. So to me, I just, I really want to stress what a mentor you've been to me, what an inspiration.

Okay, okay, okay. Now we're gonna stop this part of the conversation. All right, so. All right. So I love you in so many ways. But as for the folks who are listening to this podcast because they are curious about how does one get to their area of transcendence? There are times where you can get into it very young and it doesn't have to be a brutal journey like you knew kind of in your bones very early on. This is what, these are my deeply held values. This is what I'm good At I'm just going to keep on doing it and I'm going to keep doing it better and better. And there was early love of your makeup and it's gotten better and better as it goes along. And as I mentioned earlier, I'm wearing it right at this very moment. I wear that. That I love the Blush bar. The Blush sticks.

Yes. Triple Threat colors.

Yes.

Maybe we need a Suzy Triple Threat colors. Okay, we'll.

Okay, we'll work on this one. And. And your interests were in beauty and in well being and you have put your life there. And I mean, I guess I wondered what's next? I mean, like, what people would work their whole lives to get to where you are at. Are you 34, 35.

I'm 35.

Okay. What. What's the next. What's the next chapter?

You know, for me, I'm really excited about continuing to build a personal life. So it's. For me, I'm really open to wherever that takes me. Whether that does bring children into my life someday. I would also adopt. I love. We work with a lot of foster kids and I. Every time I go to something related to the foster community, I'm like, okay, you're all coming with me. Yeah, I love animals. As you know. I'm a huge animal rescuer and I have amazing friends and I want to continue to have adventure and fun and all doing that while I'm running the company successfully. To me, that. That is really a life well lived and that's thriving to me is really a robust experience of a collection of experiences that I just, I'm so. I. I want to keep living life. I want to keep giving. I want to. I mean, I'm so excited about where the business is headed. Continuing to grow, continuing to build there. We're only sold in the US and Canada right now.

Oh, my God.

We have massive opportunity. We're sold. Sold exclusively on thrivecosmetics.com yeah, we have major opportunity at retail, which we're really excited about, as well as international expansion.

So, I mean, world domination is in your future products.

My products.

I know. If you could make. If you could make a wave of magic wand and wake.

What?

Make one more product, what would it be?

I need two.

Okay. What?

I want to cure stretch marks and I want to cure gray hair. And I'm not saying that gray hair isn't great. I love gray hair. But I want these things.

Please do these things.

Yes. So those are the two things I'm.

Begging you to do.

I was in the lab. I'm going back to the lab tomorrow. Yeah.

You cure gray hair.

Well, there's the melanocytes. I mean, we could have a whole podcast on that. Yeah. So that.

So you'll put, like, a whole industry out of business, by the way. But you would start a whole new one. Yeah, that would be amazing. I mean, that would be like. That's Nobel Prize, a kind of territory.

Would you nominate me if I did that?

Yes. I would be out in the street with a big, like, you know, sandwich board saying, you know, but so would. So would millions of other women who are. Who are just, you know, it's interesting. My sister's letting herself go gray. Hi, Della, you listening? And. And I'm so in awe of her because it's a very bold step when you're a woman of a certain age to say, I'm not doing it anymore. I'm not going to the salon every. Yeah. Is it beautiful? Okay, I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet.

It's beautiful to be gray. My mother is gray. One of our lipsticks for our empowerment collection. Her name is literally going great shull. I love that story of empowerment. To me, beauty is empowerment.

Let's talk about this in 30 years when you start going gray.

I already have some gray hairs.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've been building a company, Susie. I mean, but I don't dye my hair. It's still virgin. I just pull them out, which is so what you're not supposed to do.

You're not supposed to do that at all. Hold on to those hairs. Okay. All right. You're the greatest. I hope that you have loved every minute of this listeners as much as I have. I can't get enough of you. And as soon as we are done with this podcast, this very special edition of becoming you I and the and we stop rolling. I'm actually going to start to hear hit Krista up to come speak to my class at NYU Stern. Oh, my gosh. Yes. You've got to do that. And because you have so much to teach, that. Yes, October, we're doing it. You have so much to teach the world, and the world has so much to learn from you, and you just got to keep being you and I listeners. You know, I love you very much. And I love you, Chris, and I'm so glad we made this happen. Stay tuned for next week or go back into my back catalog and listen to the other episodes of Becoming you. Hit the like button and keep following us and thank you so much. I'll see you next week.