“I’m on My Way to Somewhere, I Swear”

Foreign.

Darn. I'm so happy you're here. It's Susie Welch. This is the Becoming you podcast. What is the Becoming you Podcast? Well, the Becoming youg podcast is the podcast in which we endeavor to help you answer the question, what should I do with my life? That's what I teach my class about at NYU Stern. In fact, I'm teaching right after I do this podcast. Although, truth be told, I'm not teaching Becoming you. I'm teaching my other class, which is called Developing Managerial Skills, which I really love as well. But that's not what this podcast is about. So it's about becoming you. And the way we do that at becoming you is in the methodology that I have created and that so many have now used. Much to my utter delight and honor, is we take a look at your values. We assess those. Those are very, very hard to determine. And then your aptitudes. Those are a little bit easier to determine, but it does take some testing and. And then your interests, which usually people know. Okay, Usually people know. So values is the hard stuff. And in fact, values are what we're gonna talk about today. Because I had an incredible experience last week, and I didn't know going into it be quite so meaning and moving, and I. Oh, my God, that noise you hear in the background is my dogs having a meaningful and moving experience. Cause it looks like Audrey, who's the black German shepherd and really the alpha of the pack, if you must know, right now, appears to be assaulting little Pierre, who's the dachshund. Yeah, she is. She's chasing him up the wall. It's dog ammonia here. And I was out dinner last night with friends, and one of them said to me, why don't you travel more, Susie? You know, you're not always teaching. Why don't you travel more? And I said, well, there's three little answers for that, sir. Audrey and Pierre. So, anyway, let us talk about what happened this week. You know, there is this bromide, which is that you can't go home again. And that's based on the title of the famous book, you Can't Go Home Again. Right. And in fact, many times that's quite, quite true in our lives, is that we've had an experience. The experience has been very formative. But then we move on, and we go on, and we become different people, and we have different experiences, and it's very, very hard to go back. And if you've ever gone to a high school reunion or if you've ever gone back to your old neighborhood, or if you've ever gone to see old friends and you've thought it's going to be a really wonderful time and it ends up being dreadful and awkward, then you know what is meant by that bromide. Hold steady for a moment as we remove the dogs from the recording studio. Okay, we're back. We've removed the dogs from the recording studio. And that's just about how professional we are at becoming you. We are interrupted by dogs. In a perfect world, I'd be able to bring my dogs to class with me, but we talk about pandemonium. Look, I am talking about values. In our last podcast, I spoke about how sometimes when we think about the people that we don't like at all, and in fact, I think I used the word hate. The people that we hate are sometimes data for us. They're not just feelings, they're data for us about our values. And this story is somewhat in the same vein. It's about going back to your past and confronting some stuff and actually confronting your mistakes or your discoveries, which mistakes usually produce to also mine for your values. So the story goes like this. I've said before on this podcast that I was for three or four and a half, almost four years, part of a startup called Quadio. It was a music tech startup. I was the last person in the entire world to ever be a part of a, of a music tech startup. But what happened was that my son Marcus and Jack's grandson Joe got together. They came up with an idea for a music streaming service for college artists. And the idea was kind of nifty and it took off really quickly. The idea would be that there would be this specialized music streaming service where if you were a college artist, you could put your music on it, you could find other college, college artists. And by artists I generally mean musicians. And you could find fans and there could be a competitive aspect to it. And I could sit here and talk for you, to you for a year about what we thought Quadio could do, as I did with investors. But it took off so quickly and started to do so well, so quickly that Jack and I became very concerned because Basically we had two little 24, 24 year old bear cubs who were running a company that had 55 employees. And so I was sent in while I was taking care of Jack when he was in hospice towards the end of his life to kind of run the place or to oversee the people who were running the place. And this ended up leading to sort of a year and a half to two years of me being right at the heart, the throbbing heart and center of Quadio. As we blew up in all the right ways, I mean, there was a brief and shining moment where we. I was turning away money because the indicators for the company were so exciting. And we had thousands and thousands of college artists were on the platform. And it was like, holy stuff. Am I coming up to bat and hitting a home run on my first time out as an entrepreneur? And I became a addicted to learning what entrepreneurs really did. I had written about entrepreneurs my whole career as a business journalist. I had opined on entrepreneurs my whole career as a business journalist. But I had never dipped my toe in that water. And a couple of things happened. And the number one thing that happened was I fell madly in love with the experience. If you have never been a part of starting a company, stop what you're doing right now and go do that, because it is exhilarating. It's exhilarating to the point of being nauseating. Okay? I mean, there was a lot of money involved. Some of it was mine, but most of it belonged to the friends and family that had invested in us. And I don't think I slept for two and a half years or so. And I was the chairman of the board, but I was really the shadow CEO. My son Marcus was the CEO, very reluctantly. Joe, my grandson, was the chief customer officer. And we were growing so fast that there were days where there would be new people in the office. I had no idea who they were. We had hired them because we were growing that quickly, and it was crazy exciting, and everything was just intensified. It was like you stepped into a Technicolor movie of. Of your life, except for all the colors were super saturated and the volume was very, very loud. And in fact, the volume was very loud because we were a music company, and if you walked into our offices at WeWork, your head would split in half with how loud the music was. We always had music going, music by our own artists, being college hours. And so I can't begin to describe how exciting this was. I want to say that I actually wasn't planning on saying this, but I'll go ahead and say it anyway, which is that at the same time that I was going to work, Jack was dying. And so I had this, like, dual life experience going on where I would be at home with him in hospice and taking care of him and facing the inevitable, which is about the darkest, saddest experience you can ever have in your life. I wish it for no one. And then I would go to work. And I would be with these young people who were at their peak aliveness, and we were doing stuff that was peak alive. And I mean, there were times in the day where I thought, I'm about to have a nervous breakdown. I can't carry this duality. But that happened. And I was surrounded by people who I loved just with every fiber of my being and who loved me back. And at one point, we were so desperate for employees, I hired three out of my four children. Okay, we had a lot of employees, but three out of my four kids were also working there. And it was wild and it was going all along. And our business model was based on two success factors. One was word of mouth, virality, and the other was live events on college campuses.

So on March 20th rolled around, and on March 1st, my husband passed away at 11 o' clock at night. And about two weeks later, the pandemic struck. And I thought, I have to kill our huge ad campaign because this pandemic thing is real and college campuses are going to close and a huge portion of our business model is going to die. And the kids said to me, you're having widow's fog. Go back to bed, Mom. You can't make these decisions. And I called every member of our board one by one, and every member of our board said, susie, you're doing the right thing. Shut the company down, or bring it down to almost nothing. And I did that. And we survived for about another year. It wasn't fun anymore, I'll tell you that. Because watching a company slowly die after watching the person you love slowly die, these are just not things you want to do in your life. But I slowly closed down the company. And then finally, in a very sad realization, I had to close the company. And I sold it. It was an honorable ending, but the company eventually went out of business after me selling it. But I. A few days ago now coming to the present. A few days ago, one of our beloved early supporters and artists came to play the Bowery Ballroom in New York City. His name is Vincent Lima. He's a singer songwriter. He went to Williams College, and he was holding a job on Wall street while he was recording music. And he was freaking great, okay? And he was one of Claudio's earliest artists, and we really promoted him. And I remember doing an interview with him in the middle of the pandemic about what his music meant. And he was like, very nice to an old lady asking him what his music meant. He was a terrific guy. And we shared one common experience, which is he had Lost someone very precious in his life recently as I had, and we talked about that. And so it was an amazing experience to get to know him. He is now blown up as a star and he came to New York to play in the Bowery Ballroom, which is a great venue. And a bunch of us Quadioers decided to go see him. And this was you can go home again or can't go home again kind of experience. So we decided to meet up at Spicy Moon and if you're a vegan or just like plant based food and you can stomach like a quadruple like chili level, mind blowing, fiery hot Szechuan food, I suggest Spicy Moon, but only if you want to have heartburn for three days. No, it's really delicious. It's just very, very hot food. So we went and met at Spicy Moon and there were five of us. Okay, There was me. There was my son Marcus, one of the founders, my grandson, step grandson Joe, another one of the founders. There was a woman named Miranda Martell, one of the most geniusy people in the whole world, who was our head of marketing. Um, and then there was Eva, my son's wife. She was not his wife while we were all at Quadio and she was very important in our UI ux. So we were sort of the. There was one person who we would have loved to have had there, but was not who's up in Maine now? Miles Spence. And we were. Five of us were really the core, the OGs, as we called ourselves, the squad who started this company and really had invested the most time and energy and love into it. And we got together, we had a few Spicy Moons. That's a. That's a very nice drink. Waiting to go see Vincent Lima. We were drinking and we were talking and we weren't drinking that much because we're a bunch of squares, as I've made clear on the show before. And I said, wait, wait, wait. Let's just talk about our biggest mistakes at Quadio. Let's just talk about them. Let's talk about what we learned. And at first everybody was like, why Susie? Why does everything have to turn into a class of becoming you? And I was like, come on, just go with me. And everybody was like, okay, fine. And we went around the table and we talked about what we had learned from this experience. And all I could hear was, well, first of all, I just heard love and my affection for these people is so amazing. But what I heard is people defining their values. So when you're in a startup, it is as Fiery and as chaotic and as crazy and as ambiguous and ambivalent and nutsy as you can imagine. And that is for people who have very high a value, a very high scope, okay? You want excitement, you want stimulation. And I've talked about scope on the, on the pod before as being a value that is a measure of how much excitement, stimulation you want in your life. And even at the expense of calm, serenity and peace. And we went around the table and three of us said, Claudio taught me that I can only ever work in a startup. I need excitement. I have a. I'm a huge scope person. My value is scope. And Marcus and Eva sat there and they were like, we hate scope. Quadio taught us we want no scope in our life. We want to have little, tiny, wonderfully scoped, contained, predictable lives. They now run a home goods store together in Brooklyn. Hey, here's a shameless plug for my son and daughter in law's home goods store. It's called Slope Home. Go get all your Christmas or holiday shopping there right now. It's Spectacular. It's on 7th Avenue in Brooklyn. You're welcome, kids. Anyway, it's a great store. But Marcus said to me, I walk in in the morning, I know what I'm doing all day, I know what time the store is closing. And I love that my life is bounded. I have four walls on my life. And Eva was like, we love that. And I thought, no judgment. It's as different for me as you could possibly be. Okay? I know I gave birth to him because I was in the room, but you cannot believe that. How different a value that is from my own. And in fact, one of the things I love about the lexicon about of becoming you is it depersonalizes values. That's his value. It's different than my value. It's a value called scope. And some of us have it high and some of us have it low. And I love him and I don't share that value. Joe and Miranda and I were saying, like, we're just stimulation junkies. We can't get enough. Put it directly into our veins, baby. And we are high scope, okay? And we just talked about our mistakes. And the minute we started talking about our mistakes at Claudio, we turned them into values and what they meant about our values. And so one thing that we all agreed on was that the one thing that Quadio showed us is how important belonging is to us. When you're in a startup, you have this sense of incredible belonging to an organization. You feel love for your co workers you feel like you're part of something bigger than you. You're part of a group community. And we all said the thing that Quadio gave us and it was a well run startup until. Until we died, was that this sense of belonging to something that was bigger than we were. And we all want that in our lives and not everyone is that way. And I would say I'm higher on that than any of the people who were at the dinner with me. But in a way, that was the culture that I imposed on Claudio, because I was kind of the author of the culture there as the chairman of the board. So once again, this was this experience of learning from our going home again and looking about what worked and what didn't work and where we succeeded and where we failed. And as being not feelings. Okay, and they are feelings. Okay, I give you that. But also just data for us to learn about what our values really are. Not turning away from very hard experiences and saying, I don't want to think about it, but looking at those hard experiences and saying, what do they teach me about who I was so that I can better become who I want to be? Okay, so the way the dinner ended was this. We finished dinner and we walked down to the Bowery Ballroom. It was around two, three blocks. And we went in to see Vincent Lima and the place was absolutely packed and people were screaming, we love you, Vincent. And we were like, yeah, yeah. He started on Quadio and we were like, he's come a long way. And he started to sing. He has a beautiful voice and his music's pretty sad. So just warning you, if you're looking him up on Spotify or Apple right now. And sort of halfway through his show, he started playing a song that we really all know incredibly well. It was our favorite song when he was a young artist. And it's called Somewhere. And the legal gods of the intranet, the vast intra web, will not allow us to play but two seconds of this. And I'm going to beseech you, Jorge, just to put this line in there. And the line is.

Okay, I'm not going to sing it because I have the single worst voice ever known to humankind. As I've said before, I mean, I have sung in church and asked, have people turn around in church and ask me to stop singing. Okay? If that happens to you in church, you know how bad it is. And you know, when he was doing this, I thought, is my life a movie? Because that is the theme song for becoming you. I'm on my way somewhere I swear. And that actually, life is a journey. I know it's a cliche, but it's a cliche because it's true. And that is we are on a journey. And the point is to make the journey as beautiful and as meaningful and as detour free as you can make it. And this is from a person who's had many detours. Okay, I took my detours. So. So you do not have to. And the way to keep it as detour free as you can. And there will be detours. Why? Because hashtag life is to know your values and to live by your values as best you can. And to revisit the hard experiences like a gigantic failure, like I had with Quadio. I own it. I had to call each one of our investors and personally, all 12 of them, one by one, and say, I lost your money. Please don't hate me. I did everything I could do. And all but one of them was very nice. I mean, all but one of them was really nice and said, look, we believed in you. You did everything you could. I'd invest in you again. I'll live on that comment for the rest of my life. But one person was really bad. And you know what? I deserved it. I tried as hard as I could and I failed. And I own it, but I think I could run away from it and not mine it for what it tells me about how I wanna live. And I rather go home again and stare right into it. And I did it the other night and I wanted to tell you about it. And I really love you for listening to me talk about it. And you know, I love you very much, you. Even though I don't know you, I really do. And I love those of you who write me and DM me on Instagram and other ways. And I'm listening to you and I'm trying to answer you as much as I can. Thank you for reaching out to me so much. All right, that is the end of my long rant and rave. For those of you who are asking, Susie is still not back. I haven't given up on her, but I. You know who's around all the time is Emily the egret. And I think she might be a heron, so we may have to rename her Helen. Anyway, she's still around my friends. And I have been thinking about this metaphor about the swan that left me and just saying, maybe if she's gone, then maybe the old version of Susie is gone too. And that's something to come to terms with, but that's a topic for another show.

And now we are going to move into the next section of our show. Friends, we have an unbelievable gift for you this week, and that is that we have an interview with the world famous Claudio Fernandez Arose, who's a dear and close friend of mine. I've known him for 20 something years. In fact, what we're going to talk about is our friendship. He's one of the leading management consultants in the world. He happens to be staying at my house with his absolutely magnificent and brilliant wife Maria this week because he's speaking in my class. And so since he's speaking in my class, he's from Argentina, and I force him to fly from Argentina to speak in my class. And because he's speaking my class, we're also going to force him to be on the podcast. All right, thank you very much. And you know, Claudio, you're coming to talk to my class about one of the most important aspects of business, which is hiring and how you hire. Right. Which is your area of expertise. You wrote a brilliant book called Hiring Without Firing and Making all the Right People Decisions or not. Right. What's the other book called?

It's not the how or the what, but the who.

Look them up and we'll put pictures of this in my Instagram and so forth. If you're interested in how to hire better and just and make great people decisions, Claudia is your person. But guess what? We're not going to talk about that at all because I need you to save those brilliant ideas for my class tonight on management. And I want to talk to you about something else. Claudio. I hate hate. I know you're a person who doesn't use the word hate because you're a person who's just completely made of love. But I want. I hate networking, okay? And I talk to my listeners about networking being a very dumb way to build a career and that building friendship is the way to do it. And I want to just talk about how you and I met and how that we became friends. And so why don't you tell your version of the events about how you and I met? I do believe it was 1998.

Yes, it was 1998.

Okay.

Do you really want me to tell about it?

Yeah, I do.

I will. All right. So once I was walking along the Charles river with a mutual friend. Dan Goldman.

Yes, the great Dan Goldman. Great social scientist. Go ahead.

Yeah. And. And he said to me, claudio, I mean, I was working for Econsindo. He's a management consulting headhunting executive Search firm. And he said, you know, that's a great firm. It's great what you do. But I see you a completely different Persona. I know that you have an amazing experience hiring great people all over the world. You have a deep knowledge of research. You have a passion for leadership. And I can imagine that you could do much good just promoting great leadership, teaching, writing about leadership. And he said to me, to do that, you need three Cs. You need capability, you have it. You need connectivity. You can use the network of Egon Center. You need credibility. You won't have it as long as people perceive you as a partner of an executive search firm. So to build your credibility, you should start publishing in some reputable place. I'll introduce you to my editor at Harvard Business Review. You had edited for him. I think that a great article, what Makes a Leader. So that's how we met. So I went to visit Susie. I think it was 50 Harvard Way. You were in that place.

Yes.

So I entered into your room, I don't know whether you remember this. And I said, you know, Dan Goldman is sending me here because he thinks that I can write an article you published 10 years ago, an article by Peter Druckert. It was titled Making People Decisions. And I said, that is dated. It can be deeper. I can help you with that. I have a unique combination of experience, knowledge of research and passion. And you said to me, well, I know it's a very important topic, but organizations know how to do it. So this meeting is over. And you kicked me out of your office. I don't know whether you would remember that. And I started saying, this is a very important topic. Organizations are lousy. And you said to me, claudio, I'm sorry, organizations know how to make. So this meeting is over. And I was trying to survive in any way I could and trying to stand strong. And then I said, it's not like that. What about here? And then you started complaining, well, here it's quite a disaster the way they make people decisions. So I said, well, if here you know where you have the best knowledge in the world about business, it's a disaster. What about the rest of your life? And you started back and said, you know, well, I think this is probably a topic. Let me ask you one last question. And you ask me, are you a good writer? And I remember that I said to you, not only I'm not a good writer, I'm not even a writer. I've never published anything. But I can imagine that, you know, you would be a great editor. And that's when I survived. And you said to me, this is exactly what I wanted to hear because I find all these people so arrogant. And, and that's how we started. And it was spectacular. And it was 26 years ago. And I'm delighted that 26 years afterwards we are having this conversation today.

I'm struggling here because did I really, like, end the meeting like that?

Well, the meeting ended extremely well. And I was delighted.

I know, but I tried to kick you. I was just a, I mean, I, I must have been. And also, like, this is, I, I don't know if you ever crossed paths with Andy Wozentchuk, my first boss at Bain. And he comes and speaks to my class and he says, you didn't manage Susie. You survived her friends, I want you to know I've improved a lot. I've improved a lot. And I am, I am living proof that you can make yourself a better person. Okay. I think if I had to reconstruct this a little bit, I thought, oh, my God, here's another fat headed consultant coming to sell me something that they want to sell. And I, what I didn't realize about you, which I now realize, of course, is that you're the most incredibly brilliant and sincere seer, caring manager and that actually you didn't want to deal in platitudes and you did. And I was sick of it at that point, running the Harvard Business Review. I was sick of consultants trying to make their careers on the back of the Harvard Business Review. And in fact, we went on to work together on, on more than one article. And to really, and, and, and to see you really become the most credible.

But I don't know whether you remember this.

Oh, I'm scared now, Claudia. Wasn't your time.

You can edit this out. But shortly after that, so it was spectacular. I wrote an article. I wrote a miserable draft and you turned it back to me. And it was extraordinary. And that was hiding without fighting. 7.

That was a good.

That was a good seven years in a row. It was a bestseller for Prince and so on. But then shortly after that, you contacted me and said, you know, here they are looking for a new editor. Remember Nan Stone had left at hbr?

Yes.

And I would love your form because I see your profession is to do the search. And I remember telling you, I don't know whether you remember this, Susie.

I don't.

But I said, no, I am not going to do this search because I can imagine that you would be an outstanding candidate for that role and it wouldn't look good if our firm does the search. And before publishing that article, you become the editor of hbr. But it was a whole relationship full of integrity, both ways.

Right? Thank you.

And you kept me honest. You improved my writing in a spectacular way. You really pushed me. I. And you know, and I go back to Dan Goldman's. Remember these three C's. Capability, credibility, and connectivity. And I believe that these three C's are important for success, but they are not enough for living a happy life of excellence, impact and purpose. And I think that there are three more Cs that need to be around us. And one is precisely this great companions. And this is not networking. It's not reaching hundreds of thousands of people. It's just a handful of people who can illuminate you, can guide you, can keep you honest. And I am delighted that this is the type of relationship that will ever.

Companions. Okay, what's the other two Cs?

So the other two Cs are contemplation. We need to really stop to, you know, to look deep into our values.

This is like becoming you. Becoming you is the contemplation part. Yeah.

To understand what is really important for us, what we want to leave after we leave this world. And the final C at the top of it, it's compassion. But it's not just compassion about others. It starts with self. Compassion.

This is a hard, hard topic. Stop. Because we talked about it at dinner last night. We went to Aunt Denucci and you talked about compassion, being compassionate for oneself.

Exactly. It took me, Susie, more than 50 years to realize that in this commandment of loving your neighbor as you love yourself, the love yourself is not a benchmark. It's part of the mandate. And it's actually the first part. If you are not able to love yourself, you'll never be able to love your neighbor. And so I'm super bad at this.

I'm not good at this. Yeah, I'm not. I'm really. I think I'm quite good at loving other people. I mean, I love you and I love your wife so much. And I love your children, your grandchildren. I mean, I'm. I think I'm pretty good at loving other people. I think that part about loving yourself is hard. Does anybody else feel that? Let's ask the team. Jorge. Easy or hard loving yourself? Challenging. Challenging. Elisa. Challenging. And Tanya. I think it's easy. Okay. Just have to, like, look at yourself like you would look at any other person. Oh, my God. Tanya for the win.

You see? You see? Because that's You. You are listening to someone. You're originally from India, aren't you? Yeah, well, you know, I always say that people from India have been blessed with this extraordinary blend of a brilliant Anglo Saxon mind and a warm Latin heart. And it's somehow the Latins had to.

Come into this quality. Okay. Yeah, I know. I think it's beautiful. And that's an interesting.

Let me add that it would be Frankenstein if it were the other way around. Or like a Latin American mind and an Anglo Saxon heart, if you can find one. Right.

The show's about to be canceled. Everything we've just said is going to end up as it's being canceled. Okay. I love those three Cs. Let's just go over them one more time. It is companions, and I. And I'm going to just.

Yeah, so, I mean, the inner part is like a virtuous circle. Most people believe that to be successful, you need to follow a sequence, linear sequence, where you first learn, then you earn, and finally you return. That doesn't work.

Right.

So it is like, you know, a constant virtuous circle of capability, connectivity, and creativity. But you can still be a psychopath with all those resources for you to really live really a happy life of excellence, impact, and purpose, those three Cs needs to be inserted in this golden triangle with three other Cs. Great companions, great contemplation, Constant contemplation, and great compassion. That should start with self compassion, and then it will extend into compassion for everyone else around us.

Friends, you've just gotten more wisdom in 10 minutes than you're ever gonna get in your holding dang life. So you can thank me later. I think that is our time. Claudio, you're the greatest. That's Claudio Fernandez Arose. You can go to his website or read his books. Also, and thank you so much for stopping in and. And thank you for talking to my class and also then being dragged into your talk on my podcast.

We've had our brains filled today, but I actually. We're gonna skip questions from the community this time because I want to just talk about a quote that I read today that I love so much. I'm just fixated on it. And I read this quote today because I am coming up with archetypes for one of my digital tools, which I keep on talking to you about. And I thought maybe I'd use a mountaineering type metaphor, which I decided against. But I was looking into mountaineering and I was looking at it, and I came upon the golden rule of mountaineering. Does anybody Offhand, know the golden rule of mountaineering? I didn't think so. So let's move right onto it. The golden rule of mountaineering is this. It's always farther than it looks, it's always taller than it looks, and it's always harder than it looks. I love this because this is the story of life. This is the story of making sense of life. This is the story of getting what we want and mainly getting to be who we want to be and living this life of transcendence and fulfillment. We want it to be easy. It should be easy. That's not the way the world is set up, and it's not the way we're wired. It's. And when we think about it, that goal we have, that yearning we have, that desire we have, it is always farther than it looks. It is always taller than it looks, and it is always harder than it looks. And the only thing we can do about that is be at peace with it and to be prepared for it and to actually enjoy the journey there, to process the journey there as a journey, as a learning experience, as a very rich and deep experience that we can't get to where we want to go without it. There are no shortcuts. There are no hacks. And so I. I love that quote. I'm going to keep on ruminating on it and figure out. I think it's got to go on a slide. I got to start sharing in class. What do you think about that quote?

I love that quote. I love that quote.

All right, well, here's to you Mountaineers who came up with it. All right, before we go, I have been told by the powers that be, the people who control me in my life, the people who, like, beat me daily and tell me things I have to do, yes, that's you, Eliza. I've been instructed. I've been instructed that I have to ask you something. I hate asking you for something. Okay, I'm just so happy you're here and listening to me, but I have to ask you or something. Could you please leave a review of this podcast? Only if you like it. If you don't like it, please just go away and have some ice cream and get over yourself. But I would say that if you do like the podcast, no matter what service you're on, if you're on Apple or Spotify or wherever you leave reviews, please review this podcast and even, like, sort of leave a starred review. Five stars is just fine. And then a word review is even better. And I've been asked to ask you to do that. I actually have some reviews. I have, like, a couple, a couple dozen reviews already. Thank you, people who left those reviews. I love you very, very, very much. They were not all left by my mother. My mother's unaware of the fact that I have a podcast. She's 95 years old and she's kicking and she's down there, but she's in Florida, but she has no idea I've got one, but. So it's not her friends, it's you. But if you have not left a review, please do that. And that's it for this week. Thank you for joining us so much on becoming you. I'm so glad you came. Listen to the podcast. We'll be back again next week. And until then, my heart is with you. Bye.