Not getting a job? Ask yourself these five questions.

I don't know how I'm supposed to do a podcast today because my podcast studio partner is drawing attention to himself as usual. Pierre, the dachshund on the chair across from me, not paying attention to becoming you. But I'm glad you're here and I hope you do pay attention to becoming you. I'm Susie Welch. Today I kind of want to take a detour onto a kind of a cultural phenomenon. And you have already, you yourself have bumped into this cultural phenomenon if you have a friend or a relative who's over 50, or if you are over 50 yourself. And the name for this cultural phenomenon is ageism. Okay, that's a kind of a scary word, ageism. And it's just this sense that you can't find a place for yourself in this world or this economy because of your age. Even if you don't know or love somebody over 50 or if you're not over 50 yourself. I want to urge you to stick around for this podcast today. And not just because we are going to throw in pictures if you're watching this, of Pierre on his back acting very dachshund like, but because the ways to combat ageism, the ways to navigate it in this world, are actually super applicable for anybody who's trying to live an A or A plus life. I mean, I think that I, when I was preparing what I was going to say today about ageism, because I don't want to just leave you with the problem. I want to talk about solutions or, or strategies, really, I thought when I looked at the five questions I'm going to ask you to answer and answer in a certain way, I thought, I don't know, I would tell this to my 20 year old. I would tell this to my 30 year old. But the facts are not all of us can be 26 year old engineers looking for jobs. And most of us aren't. Aren't. Let's talk about ageism. All right, today. And let's talk about what we can and should do about it that actually applies to all of us so that we can have lives of meaning and purpose and growth. Because growth is the elixir of the gods. It's such a good thing to be growing. So let's listen to somebody who is actually one of my newsletter readers who, when I said I'm thinking about doing a podcast about ageism, wrote in because listen to what she has to say.

Hi, my name is Michelle Fleming and I'd love to share my story about ageism in the current job search market I've enjoyed success as an executive in a male dominated industry with the same reputable biotech company for over 17 years. With loyalty, leadership and a proven track record profitably partnering with global market leading blue chip clients in medical device manufacturing. I didn't dream it would take me this long to land a new role. 1,100 applications and many interviews later, most with men much younger than me whom I'd report to. I now believe ageism is real applications. Some flat out asking age or not allowing you to move forward online unless you note your college graduation date are time consuming and discouraging. Not to mention in person interview questions such as where do you see your role at this stage in your life? Or another gem, do you really need to work? My optimism is still there because I believe in my capabilities, I believe in myself, and I believe the right opportunity is out there. But with each rejection email, my optimism is fading day by day.

Ah, painful. I mean, here's a person who's got 17 years with a proven track record at a great company, who's applied on 1100 times. I mean, good God, it sounds agonizing. And here's, here's what's amazing. There's two data points I want to run by you which kind of make this even more perplexing and amazing. Although I think I can explain it in a second. People over 50 are the largest demographic in the United States and it's, and it's growing. All right, guess how many people there are between ages of 50 and 70 in this country right now? All right, don't guess. All right, there's 97 million people between the ages of 50 and 70. And there's 330 million of us total in the United States. That's almost a third. You know the math, it's a little less than a third. That's a huge portion of the population is in this age group of 50 to 70. Okay, then here's another data point which just doesn't jibe, which is that many, many companies are complaining that they can't fill their jobs. The U.S. chamber of Commerce puts together this data point every single quarter. It's called the Worker Shortage Index, which says that for every 100 open jobs, how many people are applying or how many people could fill those jobs? And obviously you want the number to be large. For every hundred jobs you're trying to fill, you sort of would love to have 200 people looking. I mean, this is how companies think because they want to have optionality. They want to pick the best people but now we're getting data that in states like Georgia, that number for every hundred open jobs is 66. In Idaho, the estimate is 47. And the national average is. Overall, the national average is 92. So work companies are saying, we can't find workers. For every 100 open jobs, there's 92 people who are applying for them. And Meanwhile, you've got 97 million people between ages of 50 and 70, many of whom they are not even being taken seriously applying for jobs. So what could possibly explain this? I. I think only one thing could explain it, which is that the people who are between 50 and 70 are just not being taken seriously at all. They're not being considered, and they're being written out of that number. So when employers are looking at 100 people for 100 jobs, they're looking at the oldsters and they're saying, I'm not counting them. And what would account for that? What would account for that? The only thing that could account for it are assumptions about the people between 50 and 70 that they cannot do the work. And on the face of it, it can't be true. I mean, even we just heard from this listener who says, I have this proven track record, but it can't be true. But here's the second point, which is hating on this dynamic going on, this cultural phenomenon going on, hating on it is not going to change anything, okay? The employers are probably not going to change their assumptions right off the bat. And so you really have two choices. If you're a person who is looking for a job and can't find one, you, either because of your age or otherwise. And that is, either you become an entrepreneur and you create your own work, or you write the narrative of yourself. You tell a different story going into these interviews and on your resume, that so rattles the assumption of the people looking at you that you get noticed. And that's what we're going to talk about today. Now, by the way, becoming an entrepreneur is available to you if you have an idea, and only if you have an idea. I mean, sometimes people just love the idea of being an entrepreneur. And they say, I'm done with the job search. Screw it, it's too hard. I'm going to become an entrepreneur. And my question after that always is, do you have a really, really, really fantastic idea and the stamina of 40 workhorses? Because that's the truth of what it is to be an entrepreneur. You've got to outlast everybody. You've got to be able to shut down any Fears and anxiety that you would very normally have. When you look at your burn rate or cash flow every month. It's hard to be an entrepreneur. You have to take a lot or do you have the stomach for risk? But again, that idea part is huge. And you know what? That's a really small percentage of the, of the population. So what you're left with is this upending of the assumptions about you. And I want to ask you five questions to see where you are on them. Because if you're not answering them in a certain way, you have to rewrite your story so you can get in the door. And the minute you're in the door, you start telling a different story about who you are. Okay? I don't know any other way around it. I mean, we can't get all these hiring managers in a room and tell them to change their attitudes. We have to change their attitudes for them. I'm sorry, it's on us. That's a little tough love, but I want to focus on the love part of it. I love you and that's why I want, I want to change that. So let's talk about solutions here. I don't want to bring up a problem without solution. Let's go with the hard questions. And if you're driving a car right now, try to breathe through this. I mean, I think these are, these are, these questions are arresting. I mean them to be arresting because we're doing something big here, which is we are changing people's minds. And here's the number one question. How many friends do you have that are not your age?

Okay, how many friends do you have who are not your age? If you're between 50 and 70, how many, truly, and I'm not kidding around, how many friends do you have who are in their 20s and 30s? Because here's the thing that's going on. You have to be able to have what I would call irregular relationships, relationships with people who are not your age, with a great deal of comfort to get into these interviews and act naturally in a way where the people interviewing you are able to say, yeah, there'll be a cultural fit. They're older, but they'll be a cultural fit. They're looking for a kind of ease and naturalness around younger people. Most companies are going to be filled with 20 and 30 somethings. That's kind of the way it goes. And you have to look like you're going to be able to sincerely get along with them, talk with them, seem enjoyable to them. The only way you can do that is have practice at it. You can't expect that you're going to go into the job first day you're older, you've got the skills. Maybe you do have the skills. Employers are looking for skills plus cultural fit. That's what they're looking for. Employers are looking for skills. Once you've got that check, they're looking for cultural fit. This is where ageism comes in. And you think, yeah, yeah, I can get along with anybody. I can get along with anybody. But can you? Do you have friends outside of your comfort zone? And if you don't, they're picking up on it. I'm sorry, you probably hate me saying this. They're picking up on it. And you're saying, maybe to yourself, my grandkids are in their 20s and 30s. That's different. It's not the same. They're their grandchildren. You've known them since they were born. Do you actually have relationships with people who are like the people you're going to be working with? Gen zers, some millennials. Can you talk to them? Do you know how to talk to them? They have a totally different language. They care about totally different things. They have a total, totally different sense of humor. And if you have no practice with it, they're going to pick it up in the interview. And when we test for the ability to be a leader today with the career trades compass, which is one of the tools in the becoming you methodology, we test for your comfort with irregular relationships, and it comes up in all sorts of ways. But you can't think that the company is going to teach you how to do that when you get there. In the interview, you have to be able to talk with ease about how you've worked happily and copacetically with people who are much younger than you. I mean, they. This is so subtle. Cultural fit. They're picking up, like, I don't think they're going to fit in. They don't have to give any explanation when they leave the interview about why they think you don't have cultural fit. It's a vibe. And so my question for you, no matter what age you are, okay, late 30s, 40s, do you have friends who are outside of your comfort zone? And if you're in your 20s and 30s, I want to suggest the exact same thing to you, that you have friends with people up and down the ladder at your company. And frankly, I would suggest strongly people in different industries, because when industries go down or companies go down, they all go down together. So all data would show us that over the course of our life, we have a high point in our life. Where we have the most friends is in college. Okay? It makes it very easy in college. They're in your dorm, they're in your classes. And then as life goes on, we have fewer and fewer friends. The data would show there's a little bump up when you have kids because you become friends with their parents. You're an affinity group. But after your kids grow and they're out of the house, your parenting friends, your mommy friends, daddy friends, they decrease and our social groups get smaller and smaller. This is just culturally true anyway, but it's also just a phenomenon that always occurs. We just get these smaller, small, and then it's just us and our boo. And like two other couples that we know. And people who are younger are still with their college friends and their social friends. And. And when a company is interviewing you, they're looking to see your ease with people who are younger. And if you don't have it going in the door, they're going to pick up on it. And that's not good. So that's my question for you. And what's your answer? That's my question to you. Yay. Cheerful, aren't I? Let's move on to the second question I have for you on this front. Okay. How current are you? How current are you? And.

This is not. Let me make no mistake, this is not curiosity. If you answered. I'm incredibly curious. I'm always reading. That's not what I'm talking about. Your currency is your currency. I've said this a million times. I'm like a broken record. And by this I mean how current you are about the world today is your worth to an organization. Your currency is your currency. And this is about. Do you know about market trends, industry trends, consumer trends, geopolitical trends? And you know what? If you're a person who's young, 20 and 30, this couldn't be more true for you. You've got a little wind at your back. But if you're over 40 or 50, your currency and your ability to prove it is gigantic. For instance, let's take AI and what's going on with AI and you think, okay, I'm just going to know as much as I need to know. You've got to be ahead of AI you gotta be doing everything you can to learn about the different applications, and you gotta be so ahead of it, but just about, say you're in medical devices, what's coming, what's going on in China, what's going on with the. With tariffs. You have to seem like your brain is so current and in a way, so young. Now this is again, this is not just the benefit of being young. Young people have some of this quite naturally, and they're sort of more in the mix than you would be. You have to prove your currency walking in the door. You have to show how ahead of trends you are, that what you're bringing to the table actually is your incredible wealth of knowledge. Not just about what's been.

But what's coming. What they're afraid of is that your wealth of knowledge about what. What's been. And you know what young people think about that? They think, shh, boring. You have to prove that your currency is forever forward thinking it's out ahead. And that's true of everybody. But the onus on is much higher on the oldsters. I mean, if they ask you, you know, tell me about yourself, and you start by talking about, well, I started. Da da da da. No, tell me about yourself. The first thing out of your mouth should be something like, well, I'm a student of our industry and one thing I know that's coming in the future is X. And here's how I fit into it. You just have to be so future focused in how you talk about yourself and what you see coming. How current are you? That's question number two. Here's question number three. I almost hate saying it. How much stamina do you have? Stamina is like the third rail. We test for stamina. You know what the first thing my Gen Z students say to me when I test for stamina? They say, isn't stamina a function of how much you like your job? Sometimes. Sometimes you have a lot more stamina when you like your job. But sometimes stamina is physiological. And what hiring managers are worried about is that you have 60% of the energy of a younger person. This is not always true. This is not always true. When I call My mother, who's 98 years old, I mean her stamina, you think I got it. And maybe you don't know me well enough to know if I've got it, but people who know me well think I am a machine. And my mother is like I call her, and she's mopping because she has nothing else to do. It's coming out of her. And she was just born that way. Let's just hear from one of our listeners who actually wrote into my ageism query. Here's what she had to say about stamina. Hello, this is Karen From South Africa. By no means do I think I'm old, But I suppose 62, 63 next week is definitely not considered young anymore. Yet I feel I still have so much to offer. Granted, I don't want to work at the pace or under the pressure that I did for many years, but I do want to work, to contribute, even if it's just at 60% of earlier. All right, all right. So this is a person who right out admits that she's 62 going on 63, and she would like to work at 60% of the stamina output. And what I think this means is when you go in for a job interview, you have to actually overcorrect. You have to literally talk about your stamina. You have to demonstrate it in your energy and your voice. You have to tell stories where your stamina is, like, fully on display. And again, the irony of this is there are plenty of people in the 20s and 30s who either don't have that much stamina or, because of their values, don't demonstrate that much stamina at the job because they. They find they don't have high work centrism or they don't have high achievement. And so they use their stamina for their personal pursuits. And again, we do not judge that in becoming universe, But I would say the assumption about you going in the door is that you don't have stamina. And so I think what you have to figure out is how much stamina do you have? And are you willing to fully deploy it so that you can overcome the assumptions about your stamina? Stamina really matters. And it's very. In no job interview will they ever ask you about your stamina. It's sort of like. I mean, it just feels like it's off. Off limits, right? It feels a little personal, and yet it is not. Being asked about it is always, always being assessed. It is. And so you have to make the case that you got it. If you want a job in a workplace where they're expecting it to be 100%, you've got to make that case out loud. You got to show it. You got to demonstrate it with your voice and your body language, and you got to tell stories that paint a picture of it. Maybe you're thinking, susie, I. I don't have that stamina. And. And I think I gotta put that back on you. Which is to say, then you're putting your setting yourself up to fail to go into a workplace where that stamina is expected of you. Is there a way around it? Is there A job. Can you work part time? Is that enough? Can you find a job that does not require stamina? I mean, it's hard. It's hard. It's harder. I should say so. That's the third question for you. Look, I want you to know something. I warned you this was not going to be a warm and fuzzy podcast. But I hope it's helpful. That's the goal, that it's helpful. All right, let's look at the fourth question.

Have you actually articulated what you can do that younger people cannot do? I mean.

This is your strength. There's stuff that you really bring to the table. You don't have to say, I'm just as good as younger people and stuff. You're actually better at some stuff than younger people. You're better at it. I can think of three things you're better at right off the top of my head. And my question for you is, do you know them? Have you articulated them? Do you talk about them? So here are the three things right off the top that you can do better than younger people. You can recognize patterns and gut, which you use a lot at work. Gut decision making is pattern recognition. I've seen this before, that before, this before, and the next dot is this. Have you actually said I've seen a lot? And so therefore, I'm very good at making yes or no decisions very quickly based on a large data pool. I have very good pattern recognition. That's the benefit. Not that I have a lot of experience, but that my tons of experience make me very fast at making decisions. I'm better at making decisions because I have so much data. That's how you have to frame it. You're better at making decisions because you have so much data. How I like that framing. Here's the other thing. You can do better than any young person. You can navigate a crisis because you have been through so many. If you've been around in the workplace, you've seen hard times, you've seen companies spin out, you've seen lawsuits, you've seen a lot of stuff. I mean, for many young people, the only crisis they've been through is the pandemic. And the pandemic stunk. But for people my age, we saw the crash in 87. We've seen. I mean, I could go on and on a lot of stuff. And so instead of saying, I've been through a lot, the way you frame it up is, you know, I went through the pandemic like everyone else and experienced that crisis, but I probably have 12 crises under my belt, which makes me. I will be ready for you when the next crisis comes. With my wealth of experience about crisis management. Okay, do you say it? You know it, you know it's true. Now here's the last one.

Little bomb throwing going on here. Here's what you can do as an older person that the younger people that you're up against at for these jobs don't want to do. And that is older people are much more inclined and have much higher level of comfort with postponing joy. We are used to postponing joy because culturally, when we were coming up and along, that's what you did. You worked really hard for 40 years and then you went and got your joy. And the pandemic kind of turned that on its head. The pandemic said to the whole world, wait, wait a minute. Why would we postpone joy? It could all the bottom could fall out tomorrow. That was the great reset. That's one of the great resets of the pandemic is like, wait a minute. Even if you work really, really hard, the bottom can just fall out. And a whole generation is saying, I don't like that bargain. But for those of us who are between 50 and 70, we are enculturated to work very, very hard for a later payoff. This is like liquid gold to employers. If you know how to say it. If you know how to say it, which is like. And the way you could actually say it is it's in your values. Like, I have a value of achievement, I have a value of work centrism. Those values have paid off for me in the past and I'm going to apply them right here at this company. You can use that language because I can tell you right now, we have all the data to prove it, that for younger generations, achievement and work centrism are very low values. They're number 11 for achievement and number 9 for work centrism. If you're between 50 and 70, the data would show us that those are much higher values for you. And imagine if you went into workplace and said, I may be old, but I've got the values you want. I've got the values of work centrism and achievement. Because I know you got to work hard to play hard later. I mean, I'm telling you, employers will tell you they miss that they wish their younger employees had it. You already have it. Are you saying so are you making that case for yourself? Here's the case you can make. I have so much data to make really fast decisions. I'VE navigated crises. I'll be better at it than everyone else, and I'm willing to postpone joy and fun to get the work done. Oh, my God. What a reframing of who you are. It's cringy to say it, but if you don't say it, you're not making your case. Everything about getting a job is cringe. It's such a humiliation machinery, isn't it? I get it. And maybe you're thinking she's asking me to humiliate myself more. But if you want the job, you got to say what's good about you. And I want to reiterate that these three things, if they're true about you, you can make this case at any age. All right, if you happen to be a person who's younger, who's okay with postponing eudaimonia and self flourishing, you should say it in a job interview. I mean, if you're in that 2% of Gen Z that has achievement and work centrism in your top values, oh my God, say it. They're looking for you. Okay, last question, last question. And this question came to me because I got somebody wrote me and I thought it was a very interesting point. And my question is, do you actually have a narrative of your values and your aptitudes and what you want to do with your life, or are you just putting yourself into the pool without a clear narrative? Listen to this. Listen to this email from somebody who read my newsletter. So I think people in their 40s and 50s aren't landing jobs because they don't quite know what they want anymore. They're ready for some sort of change, but fearful of addressing the fact that perhaps what they once loved and thrived in no longer may excite them. So they think that maybe changing the company or the job might be the thing. But in reality, what they really need to do is explore a bit more of the type of work that lights them up at this particular juncture of their life. Oh my God. I think this is actually very, very, very accurate. Is that you're 40 or you're 50, a little older, the work is not exciting you, you've been laid off and you think, I'm going to change the company. I'm going to tell the same story. I'm going to go do it at another company. I'm going to do only at another company. But in fact, it's a much bigger crossroads that you're at. What you used to do doesn't excite you. It's coming across and what else they're picking up on is you are lukewarm on some level about this work. You've lost faith in it and it doesn't interest you. And then you go out and you try to make the case you've done it before, you should do it again. And isn't it funny how all roads lead back to becoming you? Because this is actually. I don't care if you use becoming you or use any other methodology you want. I think if you're in that 50 to 70 age frame and you're not landing a job, it may be that what is being picked up off of you is that you don't really know and you don't really believe in what you're selling yourself for. And you need to do the hard, incredibly rewarding, but hard work of identifying your actual values, your actual aptitudes, and your actual areas of economically viable interest. Look, you can just do it listening to me. Figure out your values, figure out your aptitudes, and figure out your economically viable interests. You can. You can get the book, you can go online. You can. Again, I'm not trying to tell you to do the becoming you method, but I kind of am. But that's why. Look, this is why we're doing the podcast, but I think you need to come up with a narrative of what your purpose really is. Have you done that work? Because you could be looking for the exact wrong job, and that is part of what they may be picking up off of you. And you know what? You don't have to be between ages of 50 and 70 for that to be true. And you're not finding a job. Is it because you're looking for the wrong one? Is it because you're looking for the wrong one because you don't really know what it is you were born to do? I think that when you are looking for a job and you do know you were born to do it, that comes across. It does. And so the opposite is true as well. And so I think, look, I'm going to leave you with that. That you really should be doing that work. First, you've got to get existential before you get tactical. You have to get existential. What was I born to do? What is the work I can do? What's at the intersection of my values and my aptitudes and my interests? What's there? Then go get it. You have to be existential before you get tactical. I know it's urgent and you need work, and it's like, I don't have time to get existential. You waste time if you don't get existential. I am filled with happiness today, aren't I? But I feel this for you. I don't want you to be out there looking and losing hope. I want you to be optimistic and I want you to have a future that is so, so exquisitely alive for you. So, anyway, look, I want to leave you with this. It's actually my favorite quote. I have so many favorite quotes. But in the top five of my favorite quotes, I want to leave you with it because it is so apt for this whole podcast today. And it's my friend, it's my girl, Emily Dickinson. And she. It was actually from a letter, not a poem. And she wrote, we grow not older with the years, but newer every day. And I think it's true. I think we grow. I mean, I think one of the great beautiful, exquisite ironies of life is that we're growing older, but we could be growing newer at the same time. And you have to show the world that you're growing newer. If you're not showing the world you're growing newer, they're going to put you in that bucket of too old. Only you can redefine that. And you can redefine that at any age I want you to. And so keep on coming back and we'll keep on talking about that. But until then, I hope this was really. I hope this was food for thought for you. If you got any thoughts or ideas about it, me. Hello@suzie welch.com and until we meet again, I love you and I'll see you next week.

And this show is produced by the amazing and fabulous Mikey Robley, Eliza Zinn, Issa Lampson and Hallie Reiner. And if you liked what you heard, and I'm on my knees praying that you did, follow me, Uzi Welch, across all my platforms, Everywhere, Instagram and LinkedIn and even TikTok. Although somehow TikTok doesn't seem to work for me. And don't forget to leave a rating and a review below because a lot of people have. And I love you, you people who have. It's not all my children, because there's just too many of them. I will see you next time. And until then, keep becoming you, Sam.