EP 54: How to Talk About Conflict Without Badmouthing Anyone

You don't need a villain in your conflict with a colleague example. This is about a disagreement or a conflict that could have happened to anyone on any day.

Before we get into today's episode, if you're prepping for your interview, make sure you're signed up to our free 5-day email crash course. It breaks down exactly what you need to do to stand out, and you can sign up via the link in the description. And the Academy waitlist is now open. If you want structured support for your consultant interview, join via the link in the description. In this episode, we're looking at how to describe a colleague conflict without sounding like you're badmouthing someone. We break down a golden example about a rota dispute, and we look at how to ask for reasonable adjustments in your interview. Welcome back to our next podcast episode. So, first up, we have a student question. This is a question that one of our Academy students have asked us. The question this week, you're going to like this one, is, how do I talk about a conflict with a colleague without sounding like I'm badmouthing them?

You're right, I do like this question, um, uh, and I think this is Kind of a reasonably common concern around describing this, this conflict one. Look, what we're looking for is an acknowledgement that you are a nice normal human who can have, you know, a professional conflict with a colleague, you know, a disagreement in management or whatever it is, and that you can resolve it in a professional way. Um, and I think that people get themselves in a pickle about this because they, because they don't, because they kind of say, but I'm not somebody who has a conflict. I, I don't really, I don't have arguments with people. And we don't, we don't need you to have been, you know, throwing stuff across the room at people. Um, it just could be something, you know, like I was trying to make a referral to somebody and they point-blank refused. They got really angry about it and they started shouting at me about it. And what we want you to be able to do here is just acknowledge, actually, in the NHS, we're all under 10 tonnes of pressure every day. Conflicts arise because of that pressure, because of workload, because people are stressed. And actually, what I can do as a colleague is to de-escalate that in the moment in a way that keeps patient safety at the centre of what we're doing. and maintains my professional working relationship with those around me. That's all you need to do.

And to be clear, we definitely don't want an example where you've thrown things across the room.

Not good. We do not.

Yeah, so it's not about the, like, talking down the other person. It's actually about understanding where the other person's coming from and why they might be behaving in a, in a way that's inappropriate.

I think the other thing that people often do with this is a particular pitfall that people, people get caught out by is they, they end up justifying why they were saying what they were saying. And, you know, and, and they kind of feel that at the end of the example they have to sort of prove that they were right, you know. So actually, we, you know, we, we did get the CT, um, done in the end, and the child did have appendicitis.

Yeah.

Um, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether you were right or wrong for this answer. In fact, it's probably better if you don't mention it. The point is, can you de-escalate conflict, um, in the moment without calling somebody else? And, and that's the other pitfall, potentially. So I called my consultant and got them to speak to their consultant, uh, and they actually did agree that the CT was necessary.

Yeah.

No.

No. Yeah, you need to be able to resolve it. And also, you're going for a senior role, so calling your boss to get their boss to— is just undermines all of that. So it's something that you, you didn't— you were able to resolve between the two of you is what you're looking for. You are the boss. Yeah, you're the boss. Uh, so it's not that you were pretending that you don't ask for help or you don't know how to ask for help, but this is a specific question about your conflict resolution skills. And if you're having to ask someone else to sort it out, it's not your conflict resolution skills, it's theirs.

Mhm.

Okay, and this ties in with the golden example that we've got this week. So this is, uh, an example that one of our students has given us. So this is a time you had to conflict with a colleague, and it says, while running the reg rota, a colleague kept contacting me on my personal phone, not rather than using the rota email. They were asking for more leave than they were entitled to. I double-checked the BMA guidance. I met with them to explain both the communication boundary and the leave decision and signposted the relevant guidance. They disagreed with the leave allowance but agreed to stop contacting me personally. When the quit request continued, I escalated to the college tutor, operations, and HR rather than continuing to negotiate it myself. What do you think about this?

Okay, so bearing in mind everything that we just said about the conflicts with a colleague example and what we want it to be, this is kind of not it, is it? Um, so there's a few red flags in here for me. One, you've needed to get other people involved.

Everyone. You've got everyone involved.

Everyone, the most senior people.

In all paths.

Yeah, exactly. It's just that also it's an ongoing kind of conflict, rumbling disagreement, and ideally what we want from this is a conflict that sort of blew up in the moment, you de-escalated it, and we all moved on. I also just think it doesn't make you sound like an easy colleague to work with. You've had this ongoing dispute with a colleague about rota management and you couldn't sort it out yourself, and so you had to get all these external people involved, it just says that you're not—

Yeah.

Kind of collegiate to me. And I just— I'd— even if this colleague was completely unreasonable and they were an absolute nightmare to you, I just think there's a high risk that you will come across as somebody who's difficult to work with, and I just don't think that's the look you're going for.

No. And remember, this is why we've got the rules that we give people when they're choosing a good conflict with a colleague example, which is conflict with someone who's, uh, also a doctor of the same, uh, grade as you but a different specialty, where, where they're annoyed with you rather than you being annoyed with them about something that's not your fault. And this probably breaches almost all of them, I think. Well, it's a conflict. Sounds like it's a conflict with a doctor who is the same grade, but it's within their team. So one of the reasons that we say it should be within another team is for the reasons you were mentioning, which is you don't want them to be thinking, are you really tricky to get along with in the team? Because you're basically having a quite significant— well, very significant disagreement that's hard to escalate up to formal channels with someone who you work closely with. So, it definitely raises questions. So, it's better to pick a conflict with someone on another team. You want them to be annoyed with you. And in this case, that's not what's happened. I know loosely they're annoyed because the rota's not working out, but actually you're annoyed with them because you think they're behaving inappropriately and they're asking for too much stuff in the rota. So, you being annoyed with them, the focus then becomes, it's about you and how irritated you are and what you do when you're annoyed. But actually, it should be about conflict resolution. And so in this case, you're not showing your conflict resolution skills at all, because all you've done is contacted everyone you can think of to escalate and make this person's life very challenging. And also the team, it'd be very challenging to work in a team where this is happening. So you're showcasing things about yourself that you don't need to or want to show in a substantive interview.

Yeah, I think don't go there. It's also, it's a relatively sort of long story.

Because you need a lot of detail.

Yeah, I just, I think we're saying no.

We're definitely saying no. But also, this is why you need to think and like run through these in advance, because, you know, this person will be able to choose another conflict example, and that's fine. But if you don't think about it, and this is the first, because this would be one that comes to your mind in the moment because it was so I mean, it would've been stressful for everyone. And so, these kind of things are the things that come to you in the minute. And if you— yeah, you can end up sharing stuff in your interview that, in retrospect, wasn't ideal.

People often say, but I just haven't got another example. And I say, it can't be true.

It's not true.

You work with hundreds of other people. Conflict is entirely normal. Just dig deeper, think longer, because there will be something else that you could use that won't show you in a bad light.

Yeah, because equally, this is an example that shows you in a not great light, but equally saying, I just don't have conflict with anyone and I don't have an example, it doesn't really show you in a great light either. It may be true that you struggle with conflict or you don't have a lot of conflict, but to say that you've never had a conflict that you could share, it shows a lack of insight, I think, and real reflection. So yeah, we always push people to say, like, come on, you have one. You've been in medicine for 10, 15 years, you have a conflict. Uh, you might not be thinking— the thing is, when people are trying to think of them, they might be trying to think of this sort of thing where it's like some big conflict, but actually you want the more relatable everyday conflict. So just think of the regular stuff that happens all the time, and that's, that's more likely to be a good example to use. Let's go on to our interview question. So this is a question that someone got asked in a recent interview. This question is, how would you handle a disagreement between 2 members of your team? Do you think you like this question? How do you feel about it?

Yeah, I think it doesn't come up that regularly in this kind of format because it often comes up as the, you know, conflict with a colleague example. But this is asking you to be an external person and And show how you would de-escalate it. So actually, going back to the previous example, if you were the person who managed to de-escalate that conflict between the 2 people who were having the rotor nightmare, that could be good. Now you've got something to talk about. That, you know, that would be great as long as you did it appropriately and they didn't come to blows. So, so again, you know, it's what, it's what we're talking about. There's, there's a hypothetical element to this as well, so you can give a broad approach to your management of this. If you've got an example that you can share where you've done this, absolutely share it in a brief way and then sort of build on that and talk about how you would escalate as appropriate. So you might, you know, you might sort of start small, you know, try to understand people's perspectives, get them together, have a chat about it, maybe have a chat separately, you know, whatever it is. see if I can settle things down, you know, mediation, what, you know, whatever it is. But then recognise that if things don't settle or there's, yeah, you know, poor behaviour from one or both colleagues, that you therefore need to escalate and what the steps of that escalation looks like. And that's the bit that allows you to sort of demonstrate that bigger picture, senior level thinking.

Yeah.

Um, I think it's, it's, it's okay stuff you can build on here. You can probably show a bit of reflection. Yeah.

Um, I think it is quite a hard question, and yeah, obviously it has, it has come up before, but it's definitely not a common question to come up because probably people aren't really going to be in the situation where they're mediating significant disagreements at that stage in their career, which is why I'm not sure Why you would really pick this as a substantive consultant interview question. That's why you having a conflict with a colleague is a much more appropriate question. This would be more suitable for a senior management role type thing rather than your first substantive job, but could come up.

Yeah. I'm wondering whether it's a little bit of a red flag.

That's true.

Are they constantly arguing with each other?

That is true.

Yeah, I don't know whether Whether there's some politics around this. Because sometimes when these kind of slightly wacky questions come up or slightly less common questions come up, it's because it directly relates to something that's going on internally.

Yes. We love spotting these, don't we, when students tell us their interview question? It's like, what would you do if one of your colleagues turned up drunk to work type thing? And you're like, what? Why? Why are we being asked this in an interview? What's going on here? Yeah, it's where—

yeah, all that old chestnut. How would you address issues of culture within the team?

How would you— what would you do if someone— you watch someone bullying a junior? Yeah, so there's always— yeah, there's an element where there's a specific question towards the end of the interview that sounds a bit odd, where you think, is this sort of a chief exec mandated question in every substantive interview in the Trust? which can happen if there's been a significant event, you may know, like, if you do good pre-interview prep, you may know the context of this, and that will be helpful because you can prep for a question around it and be sensitive to it. But otherwise, you just need to answer it in the moment. But yes, you're right, this may be something that's gone on in this team. Okay, and then we've got our tip and trick of the week. So, this week's tip And trick is around asking for reasonable adjustments for the interview. And this is a conversation we have quite regularly with our students as well. People are unsure about whether to ask and when to ask for reasonable adjustments.

Yeah, I think this is coming up more, and I think that interview panels are getting better at making reasonable adjustments for people who need them. And recognising that it's actually a thing rather than just expecting everyone, regardless of their needs, to just follow the same process. So this is a way, hopefully, of making interviews a bit fairer.

Yeah.

Um, so I guess I'm just sort of thinking through some particular, um, examples. So often it might be something around, um, communication needs, for example. So, um, let's say people with dyslexia or, you know, processing issues, sometimes they've asked for questions to be given to them in a written format as well as verbally. Um, and, you know, candidates have had, you know, each question just passed to them on a piece of paper so that they can take time to consider that. And sometimes people have had additional time for their interview, you know, specifically allocated for them if they've got particular communication needs. For example, we've had a few students who've got significant stammers, and they've asked for a bit longer, and that's really worked well for them, and it's just given them enough time to feel that they're under a bit less pressure, and they've actually been able to afford. Perform really well under those circumstances.

And there's no issue around asking for this. You'd be asking the HR contact, who's the person who's told you that you've been shortlisted. And I think the main thing when you're asking for reasonable adjustments is to think about what would help you. So you're not just asking for anything and everything, but you want to ask for something that's going to make a difference to you. And then it is worth— it's definitely worthwhile to do it. It will not be counted against you. I think there's a real worry that it's going to be seen in a particular way. Um, but plenty of people do it. It's totally fine. It will help you. That's what it's there for. So I would definitely do it, um, if there's a reason that you need them.

And I think be, be specific. Don't just tell them, I've got a problem with X, um, and therefore I need reasonable adjustments. Tell them what reasonable adjustments you're Asking for, and, and just have a little think, like, you know, are these reasonable adjustments? Could, could they actually make these adjustments, um, as within the context of the interview? Um, and would it actually help you? So just make sure that you're going to get what you need out of it as well. Um, because if they make adjustments and then actually it doesn't really mean that you can perform better, there's, there's no point. So, so just think about what would be a meaningful change.

Agreed. Okay, so we've covered some good stuff today. I think we will wrap up there. So thank you very much, and I will see you next time.