CFO Stories: David Richter (Simple CFO)

Hey, my friends, my name is Michael King and I'm super excited because today I'm bringing to you the first episode in a brand new series that I'm calling CFO Stories. In CFO Stories, we're going to drop these episodes about once a month, but I'm going to be interviewing other multiple 6 and 7 figure fractional CFO firm owners. My intention, my hope for this new series is to give you some other perspectives, some other ideas, some other ways that successful fractional CFOs success have built and scaled their firms. And so today I'm excited to kick off because I'm talking with my friend David Richter. David is the CEO of Simple cfo. David's got an amazing story because like me, David doesn't come from a finance or accounting background, yet he's built a multiple seven figure firm. He's built an amazing culture with an amazing team. He's got some very clear things that he does in his business better than anybody else I've ever talked to. In this episode, David lands what I would consider an absolute masterclass in how to market first fractional CFO firms. So if you're a fractional CFO and you want to know, like, what are some of the best in the industry doing from a lead generation, a business development perspective, then you are absolutely going to want to check this episode out. So without further ado, let's dive in and check out this interview with my friend, David Richter. David Richter, thank you so much for.

Being here, brother man. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, I'm excited to have you. Gosh, how long ago did we meet now? It's been, what, six, eight months ago or something.

Six or eight months? Yeah, months ago.

I remember we met here in Dallas and we sat down and we started sharing a little bit about our firms. And I don't know about you, but I heard your story and right away I was like, man, this. This guy's cut from the same cloth. I've got to be around this guy more. He's doing some amazing things in the last six to eight months have just proven that to be the case. So it's been a blessing to have you in my life.

Yeah, likewise too. It's. It was very fortuitous where we met because, like, I was at a Mastermind, and then I saw you were in Dallas at the same, you know, same area, and then to come over, you know, like within 15 minutes or 30 minutes, I was like, yes, this is great. So we could finally meet. And talk. But I think, yeah, we're definitely cut from the same cloth, have a lot of the same values. And I feel like when you're at our business side, like, those things are the things that we go to right away, because it's like, I don't want to spend an hour here and just shoot the breeze. I want to be like, okay, do we have that same wavelength with each other? So 100%.

I think the really interesting thing that our listeners and viewers are going to appreciate, David, is we run very different model firms. It's not like we have a cut and paste version of each other's firms. Our firm models are from our teams to how we pay people to the clients, and the methodologies are all very different. But there's a lot of similarities. It just kind of how we're built. So I'm excited to dive in today to talk and learn a little bit more about your firm and how you got started and the way that you've built your firm and the whole model behind it. So if you would just kind of start off like, what was your story? Like, how did you get into the fractional CFO business?

David? My background is actually real estate investing. And in that world, because I read rich dad, poor dad in college, and my thinking was never the same after that, and, you know, bought a few houses, started working with a real estate investing company that was doing some deals up in near outside of Chicago and northwest Indiana. And then from there it was scaling that business with them buying rental properties, like just getting into that world. But then from there, I eventually sat in a lot of the different seats. So it was very cool. It was cool seeing a small business, you know, grow into a bigger business, because at one point we, we got to like 30 deals a month, over 300 deals a year, you know, almost a deal a day in the real estate world of actually buying, selling, or renting or like doing a bunch of different exit strategies in the real estate world. But what was cool was I got to see all those different, you know, seats. But then one of them was finance. I like the, I like the numbers. I like that side of the business too, you know, and I had a pension for it. And that's where I sat in that seat with no prior experience. Like, I look like I should have gone to college for accounting, but I did not. I went for, you know, to be a teacher. But then I sat in that seat and I just asked the cpa, our CPA at that time, just a million questions. So learning how to Read the business books and, like, reading the story of the business. And once I figured it out, like, we were doing like 25 deals a month or whatever, but spending 26 worth. And it's like, oh, man, this sucks. Like, that's where I figured out, you know, that a lot of people are probably in this predicament. So I was going to mastermind events and, like, meetups for the real estate world, and I would go to places and people would be like, yeah, we're doing seven figures. But then they're crying at the bar later on, like, yeah, but we don't know where the money is. So I'm like, okay, this is a big epidemic. This is not just us in this situation, which through a series of circumstances, I moved across the country, I started helping another investor. Like, it was the same thing, same thing all over. Like, doesn't know where the money is, doesn't know what's going on. Books are a mess. I'm like, okay, this is just confirming, you know, like, I, yeah, this is an issue. So that's where I started my company. Just because I wanted to give clarity. I want to give clarity to these owners, like, where their money's going. Just simple things like make, spend, keep. Like, where is it coming from, where's it going? And are you keeping any of it? And I helped that first guy, and he was like, hey, this has been crazy, like, life changing. I didn't pay myself before, now I'm paying myself all this stuff. So then I started Simple CFO to literally, before it became what it is today, just to give my friends clarity in the real estate business. Because I knew, I knew that industry, but then I also knew, like, I could be dangerous enough to say, okay, here's where the money's going and, like, what's going to really turn the needle for you? That's also when I got introduced to the book Profit first by one of my mentors, which had a big impact on me as a good cash flow system, you know, for entrepreneurs, because it spoke to me as the entrepreneur. And I'm like, this would speak to other people and, like, I could explain this, I believe, pretty simply to others. So that was kind of how it got started, was it just came out of, like, seeing it over and over that so many people that I had worked with and the businesses I was a part of and the friends that I had were making money, but they felt broke. And I'm like, we can help. I can help with this and get them out of this situation.

So how long ago did you start, David?

I think well, as of August of 2023, it's been four years.

So four years into it. And what, what services do you offer today?

Today looks a little different than day one. So today we offer fractional CFO services. So we call it laying the financial foundation. So we don't offer bookkeeping or taxes. So maybe I'll start with what we don't offer. We don't even offer that. We only offer the part time CFO financial leadership to these small businesses. And what we're doing is we lay the financial foundation so we make sure, number one, they have a good bookkeeping system process in person. Is there a good way to get the numbers consistently so we're not in the dark? Then we implement the profit first cash flow system. So we have to make sure that they actually know where their money's going, that they're paying themselves. Really resonates with a lot of the owners we work with. And then we set up a dashboard for them. So that's like the first three things that we do with every client. But then it's recurring meetings really based around our model of the make, spend, keep. Like, are you making enough? No. Well, then we have to fix that. Are you spending it in the right place, getting a good return or are you keeping what you want to? Because hey, I don't want you doing all these deals or doing all these, you know, making all these sales. And at the end of the day you're like, this wasn't worth it. So that's the framework that we use. But we only offer the fractional CFO service.

One of the things you just said, David, was that what you do today is not what you did four years ago when you got started. So what's the difference between where you're at at today as far as services go and what those services were when you started?

Man, I think the biggest thing for me is that I simplified what we were doing up front. Okay. When I first started, I didn't even know what a fractional CFO company was. I literally just wanted to give clarity to my friends of what I had done with some of the other businesses. So when I first started, it was diving into their books. It was just having conversations with them of like, here's where your money is, or like, hey, your books are a mess. Here's how I'm going to help your bookkeeper, or here's what I'm going to do and then going to be able to meet about the numbers, you know, and actually Go over them. So I didn't have a dashboard back then like we have today. Like there was not a set structure like there is today. It was more like, okay, I'm going in. What do they need? What can I do? Taking any type of client up front. You know, it was those types of things where when I was first starting the business, I didn't have all the frameworks and structures I had today. And that's where even today when I say the make, spend, keep framework, that was like year three that I came up with that, that wasn't even up front. And it's like. But that resonates with a lot of owners because they know those words. It's very simple for them. When I first figured that out, I ran it past my then five year old daughter. I'm like, do you know what these words mean? Make, spend, keep? She's like, yeah, I know what those words mean. And then she told me like her definite. I'm like, boom, there we go. Like, if I can make it that simple, then that's great. But up front it was more just take on a client. What's the issue? Let me get them some help. And it was just me running around like a chicken with my head cut off until there was like a lot of people coming in and I was just struggling with all the leads and stuff.

So I love the idea of make, make, spend or spend or what is it?

Make, make, spend and keep.

Make, spend and keep. I love the concept of it. One of the things that I get a lot of feedback on from, from people that I coach and teach. You know me, I'm a simplicity guy too. I like to joke around. I'm from la, Lower Alabama, so I have to keep things as simple as possible. But a lot of the pushback that I get, hey, if, if I make it that simple, then people are going to think that the work that we do isn't going to be that impactful or I'm worried that it'll make them feel dumb if I use words like make, spend and keep. Have you ever gotten pushback from, from the market on those kind of things? That it's too watered down?

No, we got to think about this too. If you're a fractional CFO, your level of competence is probably like 8 to 10 on the financial scale. Like from 0 to 10, you're like 8 to 10. Most people that you work with are probably 0 to 4. Like that's where their knowledge is. And honestly, if you're a fractional cfo, they've probably had a bookkeeper or CPA who has sounded smart in the past, and they have felt dumb. Like, they have felt dumb in those conversations where they don't understand what is being said. So they've had a bad taste in their mouth that's like, where now I make things as simple as possible because, like, we have to make sure that they understand what's going on and they feel like it's more of an owner to owner conversation than, you know, like, then this person that's way out there in outer space and doesn't understand, because when you confuse someone, you lose. And that goes for a simple conversation back and forth. And it's like, that's where we don't get that pushback. We usually see the light bulb come on of like, oh, this is how. If I make this much and I spend it here, this is how much I get to keep. Like, they can follow along. So if anything, it's tied us closer to the client than push them away at this point.

And just to give the audience an idea, you're not a small firm. You know, as fractional CFO firms go, you're definitely on the larger end. How large are we talking if, like, to whatever extent you feel comfortable sharing.

We'Ll end about 3 million in revenue in 2023, a little bit above that this year. But it's because we've def. It's because of how I think of how simple we've kept it. Like, because we attract a lot of good people who, like I said, our avatar at this point is people who make money but feel broke. So that attracts a certain type of person. Like, you actually have to be making money, but then you don't know what's going on. And those people, okay, here's my soapbox. Like, so many people are out there in the business world. You talk to them and if you hear the issues. Most people talk about marketing and sales that as their issues, like, they don't have enough leads. They don't. They can't convert whatever it might be, but they're hitting their pillow and losing sleep because of the money. But they don't talk about that and they're embarrassed. So it's like you have to keep it simple and you have to reach those people. So I feel like that's what's really helped us grow. But then also at the same time, why we keep it so simple is that. And yeah, I mean, we continue to grow. Like, I want to do about five next year at the minimum, because we're able to go out there. And I believe we've made a huge impact in this industry that we first started in. And now I want to just keep getting that message out there because so many people are like this, but they're not talking about it. That's why I love what you're doing, Michael, and I love this podcast and I love the different things because not a lot of people go down this path.

When I think about what I've learned from you, David, and what I've observed since we've known each other, I think that there's three things that you do better than almost anybody else I've talked to in the CFO world. One is the simplicity you've got that unlock. The next thing that you do really, really well is you have a very specific niche. And third, you are world class at bringing in leads. So what I'd like to talk about next, that's another common misconception, it's pushback. That I get a lot from firm owners is this idea that, oh my gosh, if I niche down, I'm not going to have the market, the total addressable market isn't going to be big enough and I'm going to end up being broke and poor because there's not enough business out there. So you've got a hyper specific niche and you're doing multiple seven figures.

How did you.

I mean, you explained earlier, like, your experience is in the real estate investing world. What has your experience been like? Around, like this scarcity mindset around niching. Can you talk to that?

I guess I've heard people talk about that, but I've never experienced it because I've been in a niche, you know, for so long that it's proven out to be like, yes, this is a great way to launch. This is a great way to get up and running and to really hone in. Because what you're doing is really giving yourself the chance to say, who is the person I'm serving? Is this a good community? Is this a good niche? Is this someone that congregates somewhere, Is this a niche that spends money? Is this a niche that also needs the help of a fractional cfo? So it's like if you answer those questions and all of them are yes, then it is a very good chance that you found a niche that will serve you and that will be able to actually go out there and not have you feel broke yourself as the fractional cfo. But then it's also, for us, like, it's helped us to, to be Able to create the tools, the resources. It's been able to go deeper with people in this space. So it's like that's how we've built the deep roots and how we've garnered a name and how we're getting out there is by serving this one niche. And have we served other businesses besides our niche? Yes, but that's only been after the few years that we, that we buckled down and went deep here. And now it's more like, okay, we can take these same concepts, but now we know who more of our avatar is. And I feel like you really need to know who you are serving. And that niche, you know, really helps you dig in and go deep. I've never experienced the lack of, of, you know, like, oh, there's not enough leads or there's not enough people. And I think it was a couple different reasons. I think number one, I really know the people that I'm serving. And that's where when people niche down, they, they do. I feel like once they go down that road, they do know those people, they do know how they think, they do know how they speak. And it, it's just a lot easier for them to be able to get in there and to be able to make an impact or to be able to speak or to be able to do the different things that help you bring leads in for the people that are really hurting. So I'm very much in the abundance factor and also for niching down to be like, okay, this is a neat if you can serve them. And there is a good base because I could not just serve one subset of the real estate market. Like I couldn't go to single to like midterm family rentals that are doing just the, you know, this one thing like that would have been blocking myself off a little bit too much. But these are the people that I do serve in the real estate space. We don't work as much with multifamily people. So we have niche down even from multifamily versus single family. We work with more single family investors, the more mom and pop and the people that are on their way to the, you know, seven, eight figure mark. You know, that's really the people that we're working with in there. But a lot of the multifamily people already have their own fracture, either full time or part time CFO on their team. So we took another niche inside of this niche. But it's like we even had that availability. So it's like, are there subsets that you can focus on inside of your niche as well too. That will also generate the best, you know, return for you as well too, that you know that if there's any division like that inside of the people.

That you're serving when you think about your niche, right? So, so we've got like single family real estate investors, right? Real estate investors that are investing in single family homes. Do you take is you're coming up with that avatar or ICA or niche, does it go beyond that? Are there any other characteristics that you consider beyond just the industry, like revenue or psychographics or demographics or any of those other things? Consideration points for simple cfo.

Two big things. It is revenue. So, okay, maybe I'll say three. Three big things. One is definitely the revenue. They have to be doing something. But that's where we say we work with people who make money but feel broke. So they can't be on their first deal, you know, or haven't done their first deal. They need to be making something. So that's where we really start with. But then another big thing is like, are they the type of person that we want to work with? Are they not a pain in the butt, you know, like, are they actually a good, a good person? Like, we have core values in our business and I want as much as those core values that we hold ourselves to that the clients mirror. I don't want someone to be a jerk and we're working with them or I don't want them to, you know, always be blaming someone else. Like, because extreme ownership is one of our core values. So it's like I want to work with the people that resemble us as well too. So for us, it's a revenue number. Like we don't want to work with a lot of people that are under 300,000, you know, 250,000 or below in revenue. But then from there our sweet spot is there to about the 3 to 5 million range. So we don't even go much above that, you know, for who we work with at this point. And that served this market very well because there's a ton of business owners in that range. But then also a lot of them don't have the resources for a full time cfo. And they've had bad interactions because they've gone the cheap route with bookkeepers and CPAs. And they've also, you know, like never had a financial leader. But they want that and they crave that because they want whatever they set out for their business, travel or financial freedom, whatever that means to them. And it's like we're giving them that ray of hope. So that's why this, you know, this niche specifically and those variables that we're looking for, because I want to help the people that are really struggling. But there's just a few tweaks that we can make of the business or just giving them that clarity and so many things can turn around. So those are the type of people we're looking for. And as far as like demographics, those things, that doesn't really matter because we've worked with 20 year olds that were very emotionally intelligent and like very cognizant of like that they needed this. But then we, you know, then we're working with people of all ages throughout, you know, the spectrum that are just like, I've been in real estate 30 years and I've never felt like I've made any money. I'm like just bleeding for them. I wish we could have worked with you 30 years ago, you know, type thing because now they're just like in that constant rat race themselves. So. So that's where the dividing factor is for our avatar.

Awesome. I want to circle back to the core values thing in just a minute, but I'm worried I'll get, I'll lose my train of thought because I really want to hit these three things that you do out. So we've got the simplicity, the niching, and then the marketing, the lead generation. You're so good at that I would assume that the niching has helped with it. But help me think through or talk through your marketing strategy. How do you get enough leads in the door to go to $3 million to have a conversation about going to $5 million just a year later? How do you do it?

David, first I want to say there's no magic bullet. You need to become a student of marketing. If you're the owner, that is the lifeblood of your business. That is why most people talk about marketing and sales as their number one thing. Because it's the number one thing they usually don't either know about or they try and just pay someone else to learn and like implement, but they have no idea what to hold them to. And that's where I've read a lot of the people that teach about that. Dan Kennedy, like, if you're a fan of his or not, he has a lot of great books. The no BS line of series. It's very no bs like here's the core principles of direct marketing, of how you reach out to people and then you get them to respond, whether that be print, mail, Online of webinar. Like, whatever it might be, it doesn't matter. It's just teaching the principles of speaking and respond and getting someone to actually raise their hand and say, yes, I would like that. So that's where I read a lot of his books. A lot of Russell Brunson, a lot of Alex Hormozi. You know, like just people that know marketing at a deep core level. So that's where I start. But then from there, what I've actually done the biggest thing, and I know you talk about this, Michael, but being able to speak to your people, that is one of the biggest things. And I am an introvert at heart. When people see me and like I come out of my shell like, you know, like in the public settings, they're like, no way. But then when you get me to a dinner, I'm usually the quietest one there. Or like, I'm the quiet one. Like, if I'm not up on stage, you'll find me either in the back of the room or in the hallway. That is not my forte. Here's the other thing too. With marketing and sales, I'm gonna take it back even to those core values. If you have a mission and a vision and a big enough why, you'll figure these things out too. Like, I would not push myself to become the marketer and the person that can actually create sales if I didn't have a big why behind it. Like, our 10 year vision is to give a million dollars from simple CFO and like two different causes and charities. And like, that is why I keep growing. It is not to line David's pockets. Like, I could have stopped a little while ago and it would have been fine, you know, like with the recurring that we have coming in and everything. But like, I have to keep up leveling myself to be a master marketer and to become this person because of the big why. So there's, there's the real. Like, if there was a secret, that's the real secret. But besides that, you can learn marketing and sales from a lot of these great marketers. And then you honestly, like, you're following Michael, Listen to what he says. I do exactly what he says. I go out there and speak to my niche as much as humanly possible. I don't care if it's online or in person. We do the affiliate thing where it's like, are there people in this niche who like what we do? Who can, who have our core avatar and how can I get in close with them? Let's do a Webinar, maybe have them on my podcast, like have some exchange of value for them where it's tipped heavily towards them first. So that way they know that you're real, that you maybe even services for them, like having them at a reduce and you just, you go overboard with that and then they unlock so many people that are in your industry or whatever that you're going after. So that's another one. Another one too we've started recently is Facebook. Like, I was never an ads person and I would never recommend it. I did not start that until like year three and a half. But I had assets at that point. I had videos, I had speaking engagements, I had created a book. You know, there were other assets where the Facebook ads could point there. But Facebook ads to me and the online advertising or YouTube or anything literally is, if it doesn't have to involve me, like if someone else can either create the video or it's just a meme or it's just whatever it is that we're sending people to to be able to go down our funnel that extracts the real value of like now it's more of a business. I don't have to be speaking like this. I haven't spoke for I think three weeks, which is like I'm getting speaker eyes here because it's like I. Oh, man. I haven't spoke for a while. But our calendar has been crazy filled because of the assets we've generated to be able to get leads in from paid advertising. If you're listening to this and you're just starting out, please, for the love of God, do not go to an agency and blow a bunch of money on paid ads. Get some assets under you. When I say assets, marketing assets. Get some videos of you doing something. Maybe go out and speak. Have someone record that. Invest in a videographer for whenever you speak. So that way you have content. It's like, do those types of things like this today. I'm going to tell you right now, okay, I'm with Michael. I'm on this podcast. He's going to send me, he's going to send me the recording. We're going to chop it up. This is content. Be thinking about that stuff whenever you're in front of someone else, whether it's speaking online, speaking to people. It's like you're all, you're creating those assets right there and you can multipurpose it, you know, like for other things. So it's like, it's such a benefit to do that. But I will say the big thing Is having that big why? For creating the fire inside of you to continue to want to be a marketer. Because if you don't have that big why, why would you read Dan Kennedy? Why would you become. You're a cfo. Okay, I get it. We love the numbers, we love the details. Why would you want to become a marketer or a salesperson or at least understand that? And it's like that's where you have to take a deep look inside yourself to say, okay, why am I doing this? Why? What does this mean? And because you're going down this road. You believed in yourself enough at one time to go down this road and to be able to say, hey, I'm going to take on my first client. You have to believe in yourself again if you want to grow to say, I'm worth investing in and I'll take the risk on myself to get to the next level. So there's some head garbage that you're going to have to work through as well too. I went through it when I was small. Like, am I going to be able to do this? Oh my gosh, I still go through this today. Like, do I really want to get to 5 or 10 million? You know, I do. I want to break the eight figure mark, but that's when I have that ten year goal staring me in the face. And like, we're on track. We track that number quarterly. You know, it's like we make sure that we're actually doing what we say@simple CFO. And that's what drives the things like, okay, I have to become good at marketing and sales and I have to go out there and speak and I have to go out there and provide that value. So those are a couple of the things that we're doing now. You know, to bring in leads. And speaking is by far gonna generate the best leads for you, the warmest leads, the ones that understand what you're doing, understand the benefits, because you've already had their attention. You've already had their attention that they've given to you, that you've been able to speak. They see you as that expert. So that's where I would start and I would do anything possible. When I first started, oh my gosh, like, I was speaking at places, I flew to a place where they said, this is going to be great. We'll have a lot of people turn out. Like 10 people showed up and the moderator wasn't there. Like, I was speaking so much that it was like I didn't care. I was practicing number One. And number two, it was like, if I can get this message out, I know it's going to return and just going to help me become better now. That was a season of my life. I am very picky now with where I go and I ask a lot better questions. I'm in a much better positioning play at this point, too. So that's where you have to say, okay, I might have to go to the meetup that only has five to 10 people there. But if they give you your attention and they actually gain something from it and they talk to other people, there's so much benefit from that. And the practice that you get of talking and speaking in front of people and doing that over and over again. I have literally done the same presentation now for the last probably two and a half years, but it's just been tweaked because now I understand more and more and more of how do I make this as simple as possible, where they actually resonate with it and it actually gets people to raise their hand. Another thing too. Always have a call to action. Always, always, always, always, always, always. There's going to be a call to action on this podcast. Like, Michael had me put that together before. Like, we are always, him and I are always about this. So if you go out and speak, point them somewhere. I set up, especially if you can do this as you get bigger. This is great. Set up a site. If you go out there and speak for someone, set up a site that has your picture and their picture on it. And then just like, here's a free thing, like whatever that lead magnet is, like, here's the five best ways to keep more money in your business or whatever. Like, you can help them and really give them great value. And then on that form there. And here's a link to my calendar page if you'd like to book a call because you don't want to do it yourself. You know, it's like always having those call to actions no matter what. And those aren't hard sells. When I tell people that when I go out to speak, like, do you mind if at the end I give something away and if they're inclined to, they can book a call with us. And so many times people are like, yeah, that's totally fine. I want you to tell what you're doing. And then, you know, if they say that, then, you know, you can talk about what you do as well. And it's like, it's just that better inroad without it just being like, hey, can I sell my services at the end. And, you know, it's more like, can I give this away? And if they're inclined, can they book a call? And if you've worked it out with the person that's actually there and like if, or whatever, there might be an affiliate or something. Like if, especially if that person's a client and they are coming to have you speak, it's like making sure that they're taken care of, too, and that they know that you're going to take care of the people that come in the door. So it's like just giving them all of that. But always have that call to action. I don't care how unpracticed or unseasoned you are at speaking, always have a call to action. You'll be surprised. People will raise their hand, especially if there's a great thing at the end that you're actually giving them to that will, that will help them no matter where they are on their journey. So be thinking about that. Keep things simple. Speaking is the number one. And then always have a call to action. Wow.

That I love a soapbox. That was like one of the best soapboxes I've heard in a long time, David. There's so much to unpack there. Yeah, the thing that really resonated with me that you said in, in that entire soapbox and gosh, I don't care if you're a fractional CFO or just an entrepreneur in general, you have to become a lifelong learner. Like, that's really the only way to continue in business. And I would say 99% of us in this industry need to become lifelong learners of sales and marketing. And you hit on some of the some of my personal favorites. Dan Kennedy, Russell Brunson, Alex Hermosi. And I'm going to include a bunch of links to some of my favorite books in the description for this episode. Then you get into like, Brendan Burchell is another mentor of mine that's been really, really influential in helping me understand how to market. And just to give a very real example, we've been in business seven and a half years now. And do you know what I did Monday while my wife and Jesse were out doing shopping? I was rereading one of Russell Brunson's books and taking notes on it last week, the entire week on the way to work and the way home from work. I'm listening to an audiobook from the VP of sales at HubSpot, which is a software company, on how they sold their software services. And I'm like, how can I think differently about how I sell my CFO services based on what a multibillion dollar software company is doing? It's because I've dedicated myself to learning how to sell and how to market. And so I would just encourage you, if you're listening to this, quit worrying about how to make better spreadsheets and better KPIs. Quit trying to spend your time learning more financial wizardry. Like David said, you're probably already an 8 or a 10. It's diminishing returns at this point. Find those things that people around you are talking about you, those resources, those people, those thought leaders in the sales and marketing world, and start listening to what they're teaching and start applying those lessons. The other thing that you said, David, that I want to make sure that doesn't get glossed over. Like, number one, you said, hey, get on stage, get on camera. Whether it's a virtual event or a real event, that's definitely the best way to get more leads. But you're also running ads. And I think the important thing to point out to people is you said, like, one key thing that you have as an asset, and that's a library of things to pull from.

Yeah.

And I'm like, I'm a guy that spent 100 grand, gosh, two or three years ago now on ads.

Yeah.

I was like, I'm gonna get, you know, upgrade my website, and I'm gonna do ads, and we're gonna put all this money into it. What I was lacking was that asset library. And I think the big thing is, like, I would say, and I'll tell you my opinion, and this is from a guy that doesn't do this. So I'm interested to hear your opinion as someone that's living it. I wouldn't run ads again without a book. I think the book gives you the credibility you need. And there's enough perceived value in a book that people will click through the ad and that those. Those click throughs will convert at a high enough rate that the ads make sense. What are your thoughts on that?

I'd be careful with the limiting belief of just having a book because some of our ads are literally memes from movies that take them to a page that just says what, you know, like, we're not marketing. Like you think a typical financial person would. That's the other thing, too, is having that library, but then not thinking about how you would explain fractional CFO services to someone. It's coming from where they are. They're on Facebook for goodness sake. Like, they're not looking for, usually on Facebook for someone to help them with their financial needs. It's usually let me laugh and like just zone out. And if you can make them laugh and be there, maybe you can capture their attention, go to the page and be like, huh? Yeah, like, okay, maybe I do need help with this. And then you go down and you have a video. The book is a huge benefit because they could buy that, they can read it. But some of our stuff doesn't even lead to the book. Or they don't even know, like they'll get on the call sometime. They have no idea that, oh, he wrote a book or this or like, we'll send them the book. Like that's it is a good follow up. Like, hey, maybe we'll send you the book out to you, you know, so you can start reading it and whatever. So it is definitely a huge, huge asset in the business, especially for the niche that we have. But if you're running to cold traffic on Facebook, you have to know how to run the traffic, you know, and like, who the eyeballs are that are there. But if you run it to your own niche and you have a book for them, I will say the book is probably going to help you perform way better. Especially if it gets around in those circles. Because if it gets around those circles and they see that book there, they're like, oh, I connect that to where I heard it from over here. Boom. So I will say if you're running the ads to your own niche. Yes. If you're running to cold traffic, you should be as dumb as possible. Like on there, like as like memes and funny stuff and like that make it make sense. Like, you know, I think one of ours was like a sinking ship, you know, and it was like, that's what your finances feel like. It was something like that, you know, and it's like everything's fine, you know, and someone bailing it out. It's like those types of things that people get and they're like, oh, what is this about? Then they go down the funnel and that's where it's attracted, it's attracted good people. Because then our follow up pages, here's what we do, we can even do if they'll sit for the 45 minute VSL, the video sales letter. Like, we know that we probably got a really good lead here. But I will say a book is huge. I think for cold traffic you're looking more for the funny, the eye capturing stuff where on the warm traffic like, they might already know. You put the book front and center for sure. And then let me say one thing while you were talking, I thought of this is if you're going to spend any money on marketing, the first person I would spend money on is someone who really knows marketing, who could teach you, who could teach you. And almost like a fractional cmo, if anything, you might need a fractional cmo, but they understand the marketing strategies of what assets do you have right now? What do we need to create what. What speaking engagements have you gone to? What is the best thing that's brought in leads right now? That was one of the things that helped me, was hiring a guy that knew marketing and sales at one point. And he was like, what's working for you? Speaking. He's like, how do we get you to do more of that this year? He's like, we can focus next year on, like, getting you out of that so you're not traveling as much. But this year, how do we lean into that? Get some more marketing assets and like, if that's what's really working, how do we lean into that, you know, to get you more leads in the door? So it's also, if you're gonna spend any money on marketing, don't even spend it on marketing spending on learning whether it's a book like we've suggested here, or a course or even better, someone who's a few steps ahead of where you are, like, join Michael's group, you know, so that way you can get this knowledge from people who are several steps ahead of you. And listen to Michael and like, listen to these people that know what they're talking about. So that way they can help you get to where you want to be. And what are those next couple steps? So, good grief. I don't want people to end up like you did, Michael, with a hundred K out the door. It's like, I'm glad you tell that story and you're open with that because it's like, I don't want you to go down that road. There's no reason to lose that much money in this. You know that I want you to use that money for your business and for yourself. Or like, for 100k to a fractional CMO would probably be, you know, like, game over. Like, you'd be able to scale to whatever you wanted if you had that type of person on, you know, on call. So that's where it's just, if you're going to spend any money that might be a good first hire and in.

The fractional space, we just hired one. Both of my businesses have a fractional cmo.

That's so cool. That's where it's like, you get to pick their brain. And if they've been where you are, it's like, okay, what do I do here? What do I lean into? That's awesome. It's just. Yeah, I love that. I love hearing that.

Let's think about timelines. So let's say that, like, somebody listening to this is Brandy new. They're a fractional cfo. They've. They just got started. They're. They're not even maybe at 50,000 a year yet. Walk us through, like, how you would approach marketing and the marketing strategies you'd be using from, like, getting started to, let's say, 100,000, 100,000 to 500,000, 500,000 to seven figures. Like, when would you start with the speaking? When would you start thinking about maybe doing ads? When would you think about the cmo? Kind of walk through the stages that you would think of that would be appropriate for different strategies and tactics up front.

Do anything organic that you're not spending money on, you know, like paid ads. So that could be speaking. So it's going. I would go first to the people who know you, who already trust you. Do you have a good network? That's where for me, picking the niche I was in and that I was a part of. I had good contacts in the real estate space. So I called some of my friends and said, hey, you're having a. You're having an event. Can I come to the event? Would you be okay if I spoke on this topic? And my friends were like, yes, we'd love that. We'd love to support you. So it's like, start with your warm audience. That's already your circle, like, in your circle, because that's how it's going to get up and running as fast. I think I had, like, four. Four clients within the first couple months just from my immediate network, from going and doing that and, like, just getting out there and speaking. I think that was from, like, two speaking engagements. And one of them paid in full. No, two of them paid in full for a year. Because back then I did that. I was like, yeah, this is nuts. So then I just use that money to go out there and, you know, go out and advertise more for what I wanted. So. But that's the first thing what I'm.

Hearing you say, David, is you just have to ask.

Ask, ask first. That's the first thing to do.

People aren't gonna normally just flock to you, especially when you don't have a name yet. They're not gonna come to you and ask. I just had, I think like in the last year, the first time someone came to me and said, hey, would you come talk? You know, it's been in the last 12 to 18 months, in the early days, you got to go out there and just ask for it. And what I've found, David, is most people are really eager to get people like fractional CFOs in front of their audience because they need to hear it. It's in a lot of cases it's self serving for them because they're like, hey, if my audience is broke, they can't spend no money on my thing, you know, and so they, they want you to, to serve them.

That's yes, that is so true. And I 100% resonate with that. You always have what's in it for them. Just keep that as your motto. You'll do great asking questions. If you're always thinking like, how can I make this a benefit for this person as well? And usually that's a very good play as a fractional cfo because it's like I can talk about something and make it sexier than most other people have. Like any bookkeepers or, or you know, CPAs in the past who probably bored your audience to tears, like I'm going to talk about how they can keep more money, you know, or something like that. So that way it's a benefit to the, to that person as we go up the scale if you start to make some money. So maybe that will get you to the six figure mark in your firm is just going out there and asking to speak. And then because you're a fractional CFO firm, you can charge, you should be charging thousands of dollars a month. I would have an upfront investment. When I first started, I didn't even have an upfront investment. Now our upfront investment is 7,500 to get in the door, like just to work with us, you know, at simple CFO as a client. So it's like now we have that. So it's like in. Oh man, there's just so many things on this journey I wish I would have known at the beginning. So that's where, when you first get started, charge what you are worth. And you're worth a lot more than you think because you've got that knowledge. But then number two, ask those questions, get out there. Then from there, once you start Making some money. One of the biggest things that I've always had a part of my marketing strategy is going to where my people congregate. Where are they? Is that a mastermind event where people pay big dollars to be a part of this group? Well, then they probably have big dollars that are being wasted that I could help, you know, and I could help them and begin in front of them. If you get a part of a mastermind group, what's great there is too. Not only are they your core audience, you can ask to speak at the mastermind. If you get in front of them, that is like, you know, like shooting fish in a barrel as. As a very. As a crude example there. But it's like that's where they're really. They already, you know, that they have money to spend. You know that they want to improve as business owners. They don't want it to just be stagnant of where they are. Like, if you're in a part of a mastermind group, you want to grow. So it's like getting around those people. That would be another. Once you spent money, if you're going to. The first money I would spend besides, like, someone that's going to help me go down this road would be to be to join a mastermind. I would even pay to be a part of the group and provide that knowledge and say, here's what I'm in here for. And, like, let the owner know. Get. Get very close to whoever owns the mastermind too and say, what can I do to serve you? Do you need any help? Like, I will do this for free. Like, and you say, oh, free, but I know my worth and all that. There's some people that it is more beneficial for you to work for free with than it is to have them pay. So that way they can get you in front of other people. But that's a whole nother thing that we could go down a rabbit hole. But I would say masterminds and getting a part of that group, trying to speak there, but getting close to the owner of the mastermind as well, too, and providing as much value as humanly possible in that group. If someone ever asks a question about finances, like if they get you in part of the Facebook group, answer the question. Become the expert in that group. Serve them and become that expert. So that way, in their eyes, they view you as. They not only help me at times that I need it, but then they're also the expert. Like, this is good advice. I understand they're able to help me where I am at this point. So then you become, then it's better positioning. So that way people might actually come to you in that mastermind because now they understand you've helped some other people in there. And then people talk, especially in these niches and these niches that we're in and a part of. If you're a part of a niche, they're going to talk. That is what business owners do. So if you do really good with them, that's when your name might get spread around. We had a client sign up last Friday. They came from a mastermind group I'm a part of. And they said, we've heard you've helped these other people. We'd like to work with you because of this. And it was like, it was like a 20 minute call. Usually our calls are 45 minutes to an hour on discovery and sales calls. And this one was like 20 minutes because they were already pre sold because of the other people in that mastermind. And they were able to articulate, here's what we need help with. Just like this other person that came to you, it's like, well, they pretty much presented themselves on a silver platter. And it's like if you can get a part of these mastermind groups, you'll get more leads like that that are ready to go. Because if you play the Facebook game and you go the paid ads route, you're going to have cold leads and leads that take follow up. And they don't know you from Adam. They don't know what you're all about. They don't know who you are. They don't know your positioning in the marketplace yet. Even if you have a book. Like that's where they don't connect the dots because they have no dots to connect yet from your past. They're coming from wherever they are, from Timbuktu and like, okay, why should I work with you versus usually in a mastermind, it's like, why should we work with you as a client? You know, like that's where they're more proving themselves. So that would be. Honestly for me, that took me to the million dollar mark was speaking engagements plus masterminds. That got me to seven figures. I believe you don't have to spend a dime on any paid advertising except for mastermind fees or maybe a marketing expert to help you get to the seven figure level. That's just my belief, but that's what happened for me when I would spend money on advertising is when you have assets like we've talked about here, those marketing Assets. So whenever that is. So if you come into the game and you already were a master marketer, you're probably going to have some assets there. Maybe you can pump it in there right away. First. I would have the assets. But if you are come from a fractional CFO background and you're like, I'm just learning the marketing and sales, I would not think about it until you hit at least seven figures. If you could get in there and become the expert and get that, that you've got already in your niche, a little bit of that, that pull in that position, because then you can use that in your advertising too. Some of our advertisements are from our clients that, you know, speak to our core audience, you know, and they know what we're going after and they want to, you know, help them. So that's where you don't have as much of that either. When you're small, you don't have client testimonials, reviews that are helping you get those assets out there. So I would not run advertising at least until you hit seven figures. For us, it was year three and a half, and we were at like the $2 million mark, and I had the book at that point and more marketing assets. And I hired a Facebook wizard who knew what the heck he was doing and actually has driven leads. And we hold him accountable. But I know how to hold him accountable because we have a whole structure for that too. So it's like there's so many things that need to be. So here we go. You need to be seven figures and you need to have an operating system in your business, like EOS or scaling up. Like, you have to be able to hold the different departments accountable. So that way, if you bring on a marketing expert to run the Facebook ads, you know, I need this many leads or I need this many deals closed from this certain marketing channel, or I'm going to cut it off, you know, like that's where you're going to. And then you get to hold them accountable just by saying, okay, did you hit those? No. Why? Okay, let's put it on the issues list. Okay. Is it a real issue? Is it a U issue or is it a. Is it a process issue or is it Facebook shut us down, like, you know, or whatever it might be. So that's where it's. You need a framework like that too. And I'm very. A very big proponent on having a structure like that before you run the Facebook gamut or paid ads gamut.

Couldn't have worded it better. Yeah, you know, at least a million. I would say let it carry you to two. You know, you could get to two, especially if you're pricing your services, you know, on par with market, you could get to two and then you start burning out on speaking and you're ready for a break. Then maybe start with the paid ads. One thing that I've noticed is absent from, from what you've talked about is what role does either SEO or organic social play not just go back to the earlier days, you know, did SEO play a role in your growth, you know, in years, let's say 1, 2 and 3. And what about organic social media?

SEO never really played much in my business up to this point. So that's one of the things that I'm sure we'll focus on. And we have good SEO at this point because of how many backlinks we have and stuff like to us from a lot of these different affiliates. But then I will say, I think for a year I did the Russell Brunson challenge and like did a live video. I think every day I would just open up my phone at least Monday through Friday and just give some financial wisdom and knowledge, like. And that for me was not to attract leads. It was more just to get me comfortable with the camera and to be cons. It was reps, exactly. It was reps and it was consistency. But I actually got leads from it too. Like they would then see me speak at a place, they'd watch my live videos, book a call and they knew how I thought. So it's like having those assets are great now because we're bigger. I'm actually next month going out and recording like for a whole day. A lot of the assets to be able to have to be able to put into social media and that type of stuff. But it's now it's a part of the bigger play when you're smaller. It's more to get the reps in and to see if it's resonating is what you're saying. Resonating. Out of those 200 plus videos I did that year, live videos, not all of them were great. You should go on my Facebook feed. They're still there. Like I, I kept them, you know, they, it says like delete after 30 days or keep them. I kept most of them. So you can see baby David as a baby business owner, you know, going on there and just say talking about whatever. Some of them got a lot of likes and my, ooh, maybe I should focus on this more. So it also gave me good Insight to what resonated when I actually did those and like, what times did people do this or just different things. It just gave me better insight to what my people were thinking. These people that were making money but feeling broke, how do they actually think that? Also, the reps helped me get to simpler wording too. Because I was talking about it so much. I'm like, if this isn't resonating, I gotta make it simpler. Then how do I make this simpler? Like, it forced me to ask better questions as a business owner too. So yes, I would say that would be. And as an added bonus, to give yourself more marketing assets just because it helps you get in front of the camera more and maybe some of those really resonate and you could put it in front of people at some place too, or whatever. Or maybe a mastermind owner sees that video that you do one day and it's like, holy crud. Like, I need this person in my life. Like, our people are just all over the place, scale, scale, scale. But no, you know, they don't keep any of it. So that's where I would say it can play a big part in your business as well too.

It sounds like David and I don't want to put words in your mouth. The social media thing though, is a longer game. It's to build the reps, it's to build some authority. Eventually, you know, the people that see you on stage will see you on social media. Would you expect if somebody's like, I don't want to get on stage, I just want to do social media, are they going to grow their firm to multiple six figures, seven figures in any kind of time doing that, or is it too much of a long tail game?

Like you just said, there's the key and of the question, it's. I believe they could. It just depends on how long it takes them too. Because if you do the reps and you get really good at it and then you see what resonates, you could potentially boost one of those posts that you do that gets a lot of likes and see if people come through the door, you could be testing. That's what I didn't do. I should have done that during those. But I didn't have the skill set of the Facebook ads or that person on the team like I have now. But if you have those skills, because there's a couple people in our space that I that are doing this and I believe they're going down a good path. But I. It wasn't the good path for me. For Me, it was the speaking, the masterminds. But some people, I believe even in our space, in the fractional CFO space, that could get on there, do videos consistently get the feedback, could probably send some of those videos out as, like here, here's a snippet of what I talk about. Would this be interesting for me to speak to your audience? Like, like if you do that type of thing, it can open the doors to other opportunities too. So I think you could get there. It depends on how, what your skill level is, what core principles you're actually hitting in the marketplace, if you're going to, if you have the skills to boost a post. But if you're playing the long game and you have no, if you come from square zero, I believe it's going to take you probably three, four times as long as it did for me to get to the seven figure mark. Just going after the warmer leads and actually being going to where my people were congregating. So that's where I would say if you come from and you're just like, I have no idea what he's even talking about with all these paid ads, then please, for the love of God, get either a mentor or go to a mastermind or some type of group that has the people that you want to speak to because that'll be much better for you to be able to mingle with warmer leads.

I spoke to a Mastermind yesterday afternoon, David, and it was a business owner that I met at A Mastermind four years ago. She became a client during the Mastermind. I got up and talked for two minutes. We had to do a two minute intro. I cranked through the critical four in the two minute intro. The critical four is my thing that I preach to everybody, right? Like, let's keep it simple. And she became a client. And that was January, it'll be four years ago now that she became a client. And from her we have done, I would say probably 3 to $400,000 in business just from her. And then the referrals that she's made. Our two largest clients, multiple eight figure clients. One came from the Mastermind and the other one was a referral from them. And we've had multiple other, you know, like high seven figure clients. But the mastermind that I've made, I don't, gosh, if you told me it was a half a million bucks lifetime, I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah, I paid 40 grand to be in that Mastermind. And I'm like, yeah, show, show me a Facebook ads package. That's Going to give you a 10x proas, you know, right. Because I go in with this hardest service, this heart of a teacher. I just want to help people. That attracts them. And then they say, well, hey, how can I get more of that every month? How can I get more of your brain? But I think, David, like the big thing that I want to highlight for people is, look, if you think that you're going to just post Instagram stories or stuff on Facebook and you're going to get clients in 30, 60, 90 days a year, two years, you might get a couple. But it's a long, long road. And I'm like, you can go get on stage for 30 minutes and get to just two even.

I spoke last month.

You don't even have to be that good to get two.

I spoke last month, I got three right from there, you know, and it was a quick 30 minute thing and that was like in a room full, you know, of like, you know, the core clients of what I needed there. And then we had like four follow up calls from there and like three of them move forward. So it's like you never know. Speaking is such the gateway to bigger things for you. I want you to get out there, get out of your comfort zone. That's where coming from an introvert who never like you, he told me in high school I'd be speaking on stage. I'd probably be hiding under the rock right now, you know, like from back then. But it's like just go out there and then always have that call to action. If you're going to speak, two more.

Questions and then we'll wrap up for today. But I think this is so important for people to hear, David. One is earlier you talked about your core values and I'd like to hear what are the core values that you have@simple CFO. And I'd like to ask you just a couple questions about them after you share them.

So always do what we say. Service above self. Extreme ownership and extreme openness. We have a couple other ones too, but I want you to come. I'm going to give you something at the end and then we can tell you more about those. But those are the four ones that honestly. Oh my gosh. That we. You cannot be a CFO on our team unless you have those. Especially my favorite ones are the extreme ones. Extreme ownership and extreme openness. Have you ever worked in a company where there was not open and honest communication and it feels like politicking all the time? If you've ever been a part of that that's what I want the opposite of our company to be. That's why I could tell you the stories of leaders opening up and we've had good conflict in our calls and in our meetings. But that's where our core values are. Not only make up who we are, it helps us determine who we let in. Whether it's a client, whether it's a CFO on the team. It's our guiding principles for who we are as a company. Because I want to be able to be work with the like minded people. It makes for a fun work environment, a great culture and like I don't want to work with deadbeats. Whether it's a client or a CFO or people that are jerks or mean or are, you know, political and just are in it for the power. I want people that actually the service above self. I want them to serve. I want them to say, okay, how can I help this person and be authentically me and doing it and helping them get to where they want to be. We also have our core purpose too is to help create freedom for our people and our clients. So it's like I want, if you're the right person and you come onto the team, I want us to be aggressively helping you live the life you want to live. Like I don't want if you are a parent and you have young kids or you know, kids still at home, like that needs to work into your life. Like can we give you the flexibility to be a parent? Like because most people don't have that flexibility at a typical job. So it's like can we help you create that freedom? Because if we can, you're going to turn around service and help that person that's a client create their freedom. Because you know, things they don't. A lot of people say, well I don't like that want to be CFOs, I don't know the real estate industry or like your niche. And I tell them you're a 10 on like the financial scale, you have something they don't. You just giving them that clarity creates freedom in their life because they've never had the clarity to make a good job decision in their business. And like that's where I really want to help our people and I want our people to help the clients create that freedom in their lives. And it is very symbiotic there. And it's wonderful because then we have the right people on the team, which is what the core values, you know, guide towards. And then we're helping them with the actual like something that can be life changing on both sides.

And I love how crystal clear you are on the core values. You're like laser focused, you know, there's no ambiguity there. I'm wondering like, if somebody's listening to this and they're like, gosh, I recognize I need to have that kind of clarity around my core values, but I don't know where to start. What words of advice would you give them?

Okay, where to start? Let me go back to the beginning. When I read the book Traction, that really helped, you know, that gave a set of guidelines for me of how do you create a core value? What is a core value? How do you select them? For me, that was the beginning of like, okay, this makes sense, like, why do I need these? It answers all the ancillary questions of why does David have this? Because if you like the results I've gotten, you know, of like in the business and I actually have a life. I'm not this $3 million business owner who doesn't like, yesterday, pick my daughter up from school at like 3 o', clock, took her to dance. You know, like, I can have a life too and still run this because of things like Traction. The book Traction, which outlines the EOS system, entrepreneurial operating system, which just gives. How do you set up core values? What is the purpose and how do you find that? That's where I was introduced to the 10 year goal of like, oh, I like that. And this is what really resonates with me. I want to give, I want to give back. I don't want this to just be the David Show. I want this to be we're using the resources that we're getting to give back to the things that we care about as a team together. And that's where I would say, start with a book like that and then you can go up from there. Hiring an implementer to implement an EOS type system. I will say from day one, it was me and a virtual assistant, which we, we could probably do another episode because of just how I started, because I didn't even start it by myself. I had a virtual assistant. Like, I bet on myself and I bet on this guy that I absolutely love, but he was going to be the admin to my, you know, to my Chaos. And we were running level tens. Like that's a, in the EOS terminology, that's a weekly meeting where you just work on the business. And it was me and him, me and my virtual assistant. And we were doing that every single week. I've done that meeting every week. I'm literally late for mine right now. You know, like, we have our level 10. That's happening, but my leaders are going to take care of it. My COO runs the level 10. I let him know I might go over here. He was good with that. I'm just going to show up for probably issues time, and we're going to solve issues together if I need to be involved. But that's where it grows into that. You could have you by yourself or one other person on the team or a virtual assistant or an admin, but I would take the time to do at least one hour a week where you just work on the business, have some thinking time with your business. Read the book Traction. That's where I started. That's where I also saw it then implemented in other businesses that I was a part of. Like, and I liked it and I liked what the framework stood for. And then when I started this business, I'm like, yup, EOS day one. I don't care how small we are, we're going to be doing some of these things and then grow into the rest. That's when I read Traction as a new business owner for here. I'm like, I'm not going to implement all this. Like, there's no way I can have department meetings and level 10s and the same page meeting. It's like, no, I'm going to start with what makes sense for me and this one other person to do or like me by myself. What should I be thinking about? So start with a book like Traction. It'll give you a framework. But then keep it simple. Michael and I have said this so many times, keep it simple, like for your clients, but for yourself, too. Don't overthink it like we all do in the financial space. So it's going to be very hard. So maybe we need some psychology or some coaching there on the mindset, because you do. You got to be able to just say, what pieces of this do I really need to write this second? And what can I put on the shelf for a later date? You know, so that's what we did. And a later date came and we started adding more pieces in. But start with a book, start with a good framework, and then just pick the pieces that you need right now.

I love it. All right, last question. If you were going to start over from scratch today, part A of this is, what role would you hire for first?

I started this over again today. I really like how I started. I had an admin Honestly, like, he's still with me today. I've worked with this guy for coming on nine years. Absolutely love him to death. But, like, I knew I needed that. I was too scatterbrained. I would have lost my shirt if I didn't have someone just keeping me on track of. Here's the admin stuff. Here, let me send out that agreement. Or here, let me process that payment. Or, like, just someone to be there. That was more of a personal assistant to start, but now he's the head of our admin department, the virtual assistant, John Cruz. That's my guy. He lives in the Philippines. I'm going to get him over here. He finally got his visa, I think, like this. He's going to be at our next annual meeting. Like, he runs our admin department. He's got people under him. He is a leader on the team now. But back then it was me and him just like babies. Baby business owner for me, and then for him, admin and just helping with that sanity. So that. That's what I would hire again. Because he. He was helping with the bookkeeping stuff like that, where I could focus on getting clients in and really doing the things that I needed to do. And at that point, I was doing fulfillment. He could not do fulfillment. So he was basically doing everything else besides those big things.

Would you stick with the same. The same niche, David?

Oh, yeah. Oh, like for me, yes, 100%. For two reasons. From my personal experience. I had experience with the niche and I had contacts in the niche. You know, I had a network and friends. That's where I tell people that I'd been building this business even beforehand. And I didn't know it because I was just creating contacts and networking and going to these different events, and my mind was being open. So it's like, if you can think about that, if you have a background in a certain industry, you may have been building your business without knowing it. Can this be that turning point? Just listening to this podcast of like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. Let me go reach out to those people. Maybe from this podcast you'll get your first client. Or maybe it'll be another client that brings in, you know, that you're able to help and that you're able to increase your revenue. Just go out there, find what you're able to, who you're able to serve, and if you have a background, that's a great place to start in a specific industry.

I think I know the answer to this last part. Where would you find your first five clients?

Oh, My first five clients, well, I could tell you where I found them from. Like, I remember back then, I went to my friends in this network and said, do you know anyone who needs this help? I got my first client from that because they recommended someone to me and I closed them on the call. Even when I was a baby closer back then and had no idea what I was doing then I went to speak at an event. So I would go to an event and I would try and speak. Whether it's virtual or in person, both of them are beneficial. And people say, well, isn't in person better than virtual and all that at this point? To me, no. As long as I can get the call to action at the end and I can tell them what it is and serve them from the stage and give them actual value, that's what I would do. That's where I got my next four clients was from those speaking engagements. So I would go to your network. That's how I get my first client is who do I know right now? And do you know anyone that needs this type of help? Number two, I would say, okay. If not, do you know of anyone in this industry that has a platform where they might have something where I could contribute and really help their audience with the message that I have to give? That would be the first thing. And that honestly right there should get you your first five clients. If you want to step it up and you have money, maybe you have money, maybe you came from another industry and you have money to invest. The first investment I would make would either be the marketing mentor, if you need that, or a mastermind. So if you're going to put that money in first and you're like, well, I have some money to invest in marketing for the business. Join a mastermind group. You'll get five clients probably within the first 90 days. You know, like, if you could just join that group and contribute to that group and serve that group and bring value to them, whether it's speaking or just posting or just helping people answer questions that they might have in the.

Group, I love it. David, man, thank you so much for being here. This turned into a masterclass. I love it. If there's somebody that's listening to this and the idea of joining the simple CFO team resonates with them. And they're like, gosh, I've been looking for a team like that where I can go and serve people like that. I know a little bit about the real estate investment world. Or maybe they want to learn more. How could they reach out to you and find out about joining your team.

Sure. So I run an outsourced fractional CFO firm, which means that you could come be a part of this team, but still have your own company. Like, we just bring clients to you. Basically we're the marketing sales engineers for you. But then we give you frameworks, resources, that type of thing. You could take as little or as many clients as you want. That's where we are now at this stage because we've grown so big now we can really, you know, focus on what do you need at this point as a cfo. So if you want to become a part of that or even just see if it's worth it, go to simple cfo.com join and it's got it. There's my call to action. See, just take this, what I'm doing right here. If you're a fractional cfo, this is what you should do. If you're going out and speaking, having something like that. I set up a website and it's right there, it's very simple, tells what you're going to get from us and then has a simple form at the bottom. You fill that out and then we get on a call together and it's like, here we go. Here's what we're all about. So that's where even take my landing page that you look at and say, how can I do this the next time I speak? Because that's all I did. Simple cfo.com join. Look at that, get the benefit from it. But then if you also want to just become a part of the Simple CFO network, fill out the info at the bottom and then we'll get on a call together.

I love it. We'll drop that the link in the description below. So if you didn't catch that, we'll share it with you. David, thank you so much for being here. This was awesome. I appreciate you, brother man, I appreciate.

You and the community that you serve of people like this. I believe we are the future of small business to be able to help them reach new heights and stop going out of business, stop running out of money. So I am super excited that what you've created here. I respect you greatly. Thank you for having me on this and thank you for serving your community too because like, man, I wish I would have had Michael from day one because it sounds impressive. I get it, like growing and scaling the company and like, I get that we got there in four years and like with where we are, great. That wasn't all me that was a lot of other people. If I would have had Michael in my life, I probably could have done it within a year. I probably could have. Because of the knowledge you're sharing, because you make it simple on the CFO side, and I love that. I tell my team that all the time, like, I do. I push anyone that's a part of Simple C of, like, you should sign up for Michael stuff because you make it so simple. So I also want to say thank you to you because I believe you're creating an army of people that can go out there and serve this small business industry and make a huge impact and really change those SBA numbers. You know, like the 90% that go out of business within 10 years. And the number one reason is, like, they run out of cash. Like, we can make a huge dent in that. And I believe you're the start of a huge wave that's coming. Wow.

Thank you. That means the world to me. I appreciate it, man.

Sure. Yeah.

I'm blushing. For those of you that are listening on the podcast, it made me blush a little bit.

So, yeah, this was my time. I needed to tell Michael that no better time to say that on air, like, when we're actually live, because I do. This is what I believe and where we are and how you're serving the community. So thank you again.

All right, thank you, brother. I'll see you next month.

Yep. Thanks.

All right, my friend, that's it for this week. If you found this episode helpful, I want to make sure you go ahead and subscribe to the CFO Report, because every single month, we're going to continue this series where I'm going, interviewing other fractional CFO firm owners that are sharing some really candid behind the scenes on how they started their firms. In the meantime, I cannot wait to see you back here next week. I will see you then, my friends.