Athlete Race Story: 1st 100 Mile UltraRun (plus tips for newbies!) Ep 18

You know, one thing is don't get caught up on the mileage. You know, everybody's journey, whatever distance it is, is equally as difficult or meaningful to them as this was to me. So I encourage everyone to just have fun with it. You know, have fun with running. If you really enjoy it, you know, try to challenge yourself to go further, but never think about the mileage. Just think about, you know, the adventure that you're having. Doesn't matter how far it is.

Welcome to the Find Your Edge podcast. Get ready to dive into all things training, nutrition, recovery, and more. Whether you're a new or experienced endurance athlete, a weekend warrior, or someone who just wants to improve your health and fitness, this podcast is for you. I'm Kris Newport, founder, head coach, registered dietitian, exercise physiologist, and certified personal trainer with the Endurance Edge and the Fueling Edge. With more than 20 years experience in the fitness industry, 18 years in multi-sport, and over 10 years as a sports nutritionist. I'm speaking with athletes and experts about key actionable steps you can take to reach and sustain peak performance and health. Let's do it.

All right.

Welcome back to the Find Your Edge podcast. This is your host, Christina Fiumara Newport. And today I'm here with one of my athletes, Jay Dailey, who just finished the Mountains to Sea 100-miler, and I found your story absolutely fascinating and you are just incredibly humble. And so I wanted to share your story with the world, or at least with the podcast world. So thank you so much for joining us.

Well, yeah, thanks, Coach. Thanks for thinking of me. And yeah, it was a unique journey and maybe this will be good for others that are interested in taking on something like an ultra. So yeah.

Yeah. So tell us a little bit about your background, because you, you had like great notes to send me. Usually I'm sending people questions. You were like sending me all your stuff. So I love this. Like you, you do have a background in sport, but give us a little bit of, um, some highlights there.

Yeah, sure. I mean, it is a fairly humble background and probably some of the athletes that you work with. I didn't do any sports in college other than the intramurals. I was a high school athlete. But, um, you know, in terms of running and competing and things, you know, it really only fostered itself through the last few years where I, I was just picked up running for kind of a weight loss thing. And then in, um, 2005, 2015, I did a few, you know, 5Ks, 10Ks, you know, for the fun, and it helped keep you motivated through running. And then I had some friends that were runners and they said you should try some other stuff, so You know, in the background, I did some Spartan races and I did the trifecta, and that was cool. You know, that's the 3 races that they have in 1 year that you can compete. And then I moved on to the marathon scene. So I did a couple marathons in 2018 locally, uh, or the state of North Carolina with, um, the Tobacco Road, which actually is running tomorrow for those that are living in the area. Yeah, good luck everyone.

Yeah, yeah, right.

And then I did the Outer Banks one in 2018. And I realized Boston was going to be a difficult feat. I'm not that fast of a runner. And those times—

You definitely don't give yourself enough credit, by the way. So—

Well, fast in the sense of what I see those times, those folks churning out. So yeah, it's all in relative terms. But I've always loved running. And I had been doing it for the last 20 years, so I thought, Well, let me just go to the next stage and see what it's like to run past the marathon distance. And, um, in April of 2019, I did my first 50K on the MST. Um, that was the Blue Jay Point to the Falls Dam and back. And, um, I thought, yeah, that was probably the hardest thing I'd ever done, you know, with everything prior to that, including the marathons and the Spartan races. But I was hooked, you know. It was a new environment. It was a cool environment. The runners, it's a little bit different of a mentality. And, um, it— yeah, really that endurance is the, the challenge. So from there, 2020, we all know what happened in 2020. COVID hit, which I'm sure a lot of your athletes have experienced in terms of racing and training hurdles and trying to figure out how to stay motivated and stay fit for that next race. But, um, you know, I, I bare through it. And I, I did a 50-miler around my neighborhood that was kind of a virtual thing because my, my race had been canceled by COVID in the spring last year.

But I figured we started working together like barely on the cusp of pre-COVID.

Yep. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, and you, you had some encouraging thoughts there to, you know, keep the goals in place. For sure.

I'm glad I faked it well.

Yeah, no, no, it was. And, you know, and that is the key thing too. I mean, because I think races probably motivate most people, you know, they, they give that goal, you know, so you have something where you're just not— it's a little more structured and, you know, you have something to look forward to. And yep. And then, you know, did that 50-miler and then did another like endurance.

Let's just make sure that I repeat this. You did a 50-miler on your own.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I had some friends like this. This is not a typical situation. I mean, yes, it was COVID, but still, you were like, I'm doing it, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do it in my neighborhood. And you did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that one, it was interesting, you know, you kind of parked your mobile care unit into an elementary school parking lot near my house and, um, had, you know, all the aid station things that you would need right there. And And kind of just plotted out a few 15-miler out and backs with CamelBaks and all those things that you carry. And, and that race that, well, that, that virtual experience, I did have some friends that knew I was doing it, jumped in. And, um, about the mile 30 to about 45, I had a couple of friends that kind of came out and did the run with me. And then my wife ran with me the last 3 to 5 miles of that one. So that was pretty cool. Yeah. And then from there I did a cool one, which, um, if we touch base on later, but it was a 4x4x48. So if you're thinking about ultras, this is a kind of a neat one too that I did around my house. It's 4 miles every 4 hours for 48 hours. So you really get used to that kind of sleep deprivation and, and running and eating and hydrating. And then, yeah, before the, before the big one, before the 100 miler in November, Coach, you know, you helped me get through that 100K. So I kind of ticked off all these major running milestones through the marathons, the 50Ks, the 50-miler, the, the 100K. That was the wake-up call, the 100K, because I think, you know, we talked a lot after that one and before it. I think without your running, uh, support and the nutrition and the hydration testing that we had done and all that, the 100-miler would have been a lot harder of a thing to achieve.

And that you did that in, um, I think it was November, wasn't it?

Yeah. Yeah. November, another COVID cancellation.

Yeah. But kudos for sticking with it. So would you say leading up to it, do you think that you're like 4x4x48 was really crucial in preparation or what, what do you think was, or do you think it was just kind of of the, the journeys, just sort of going through all of that whole process of doing marathons and Spartans and then leading up to that 100?

Yeah, I, all of it had a piece, you know, that was really integrated into the thought process. The Spartan was one, you know, with that, you know, it's, it's an obstacle course type racing. So you did have to do some strength training. There wasn't a lot of running, but it was interval. And then when I was looking back at the, after the 100, You know, that was a lot of you ran in between the obstacles or you walked and you're on the rugged type terrain and it's totally different. I enjoyed it for that time that I did it, but, um, I wasn't, I wasn't really, you know, kind of, I liked the outdoor Spartan, the obstacles. Let's just say I did a lot of burpee penalties for those, uh, that know Spartan races. But yeah, then the marathons, you know, those were, that really introduced me into like what a real training plan was going to look like. I tried to create one on my own. You know, and, um, I think that's probably why I got hung up on I wasn't going to make Boston. I think if I had more coaching there, like you said, that probably wasn't an achievable goal and maybe it still is. And then the other, the other ones like the, the MST 50K, that was of course, you know, trail running and just that, that long-term on the trail. And then the 4x4x48 was that, that was a great piece of, I had to run it during the nighttime. And, you know, experience a little bit more of that fatigue and that weird nutrition and eating kind of on off schedules and, um, trying not to cramp up and hydrate correctly. So I think each one of those things kind of had a piece of education with it.

Very cool. So now we get to race day because your race story is fabulous. And, and I will, I do want to touch on first that The fact that your wife ran those last couple of miles of your sort of training race COVID kind of situation, how integral do you feel like support is for doing something like this?

Yeah, it's, um, it should not be overlooked. I don't even know if I'm going to say it with enough emphasis that not even just it's this moral piece that kind of pulls you along because you do kind of find your mind drifting into places that can talk you out of things. They can talk you into walking more where you probably physically can be running. They give you the distraction, the conversation, the camaraderie, you know, that, um, the familiarity of someone like your wife or a close running friend or partner that maybe has done some training with you, knows what you can't see, you know, so they might see that you have something left in the tank, or they might need to tell you when to slow down and, you know, you're going too fast or, you know, all those types of things that you really don't pay attention to while you're running, or you forget about because you're all you're trying to do is put one foot in front of the other at certain points. So it's anybody that's doing it should try to recruit friends or someone that you may find that's doing the race or reach out because there's, they have a lot of training runs for these races with the community that's going to be running them. And you might make some contacts there and join up with them even during their race. So yeah, all of that is hugely important.

And that's also not to say— so you have a family. What did your kids think of this?

I guess they've just kind of gotten used to it. But the extended family that I have, you know, too, with my dad and my mom and my sisters, when they— when I talked about the 100, they I don't know, maybe they didn't believe I was going to do it, but they— my dad still, he was, he was, he is a Marine, and he thought, he's like, I never can't conceive like what you just did because, you know, we've— I never had to do anything, something like that. So some of those little things, they really put in perspective about what it actually takes to do the 100-miler. I think because I ran so much since before my kids were born, it's kind of become second nature. So The distances, they, I don't even think they bat an eye anymore. They just kind of think I'm a little crazy or a little off and that's just who I am.

It's the runner thing, right?

Yeah.

Okay, cool. So let's get to race day because you just have such a great race story. So where do you want to start? Do you want to start? Before the beginning or at the start? I'll let you lead on that.

Well, the, the, the very beginning, you know, when we met and we talked about the 100 miler, the one key thing I should say is that we did the VO2 test and the hydration and the metabolic testing and the fueling. That to me was the missing piece of the puzzle. So I needed to figure out where those training zones were, correct heart rate. Is probably a big thing. And Coach, you might talk about that is how much calories you're burning. And I didn't— this was my lack of education. Even in all those years of running, I kind of knew it, but you didn't know it until somebody could actually explain what those numbers meant and what your body was doing when you're getting all that data. And like we had talked when we first met, I'm an efficient sweater. So I—

I like how you— that was very diplomatic of you.

Yeah. Let's just say, like, um, you know, in the summer, you know, June, July, August, September, you know, after about an hour of running, my, my shoes start to squish. So what you taught me in terms of how important it was to hydrate, not even while you're running, is just be conscious all the time, was very important. And, um, so that, that's kind of a, a thing of a big piece of the puzzle though, that dialing in that kind of training, the, the the months ahead of the 100 miler. I feel like I'm still doing it, but that was a huge part ahead to race day. So if anybody's considering, you know, getting into something like this, I would highly recommend a test like that or getting on that, into that, um, journey of figuring out what those, your different thresholds are and, and where you, your sweat rates are and your, your fueling, because that's almost as important as the mileage and the hours you're going to be on your feet.

Yeah. And from my perspective, I think the most useful part of that was slowing you down.

Yeah.

I mean, like, so Jay is being very modest right now. He is a very fast athlete and you have a lot, you have a lot of potential in this sport, which I'm super excited about for you, but yeah, it was, it's it's kind of hard to slow yourself down a little bit.

No, you're spot on. And I still have a problem with it in the— even in the training runs, because like you said, you know, the marathoners and the Spartan races, they were all for speed, or, you know, trying to— and this is a whole different beast where, yeah, there's people that are running these. Of course, if you, if you look up ultras, and there are some super athletes out there that churn out some times that are almost mind-boggling. But, um, I'm sure even them, that, you know, they train at a slower pace than they hit those races on. And that is an extremely hard thing to, like, pull back the reins and be disciplined on your time. And because sometimes you just want to let your body go and, you know, you feel great, but you kind of forget, I got, you know, 20, 30 hours of this to do. So you really have to be management of your, of your time and your, your effort. So it's, it's a whole, it's a cool thing. It's like solving a puzzle as you run.

Yeah. I like that. I like that. Yeah. Okay. So are we at the starting line?

Yeah.

Tell us about that.

Yeah. So, uh, the start of the race was at, let's see, it was 5:00 AM, I think 5 or 6:00 AM.

I didn't sleep well.

Yeah. And that, that was one of the intro pieces for sure. Like I was, So amped up. You know, some of the friends that knew you were doing it were texting you the night before, like encouraging you. And then I think at like 10:00 at night, it hit me like, this is happening. Like, and not that I was psyching myself out, but I was getting so amped to like toe the line and get going that I could not fall asleep. I went to bed at like a little before 10 and I stared at the clock until I think like 2:45. And I had to get up at 4, like a little, little after 4. And, um, yeah, that was frustrating. I, I think I ran through the course in my brain for those, you know, hours laying in bed thinking of, you know, all the things that I packed, you know, going through my kits, my prep, like how the pace was going to work, what, where my markers were going to be, you know, all the goals that I had in mind. And it So yeah, no, that was, uh, that was the start of that journey. Um, so really in reality, you know, I probably didn't, I only had 2 hours of sleep for the, probably the like 50-hour time stretch from, you know, the night prior to the race all the way to post-race. So yeah, but you know, I'm sure it'll get better. I think it was just the unknown of the first one.

Yeah. And, uh, you know, if timing is going to work out at all, the night before is okay. Yeah, you, you've been sleeping okay for the, for the days leading up to it, if I remember right. So yeah.

Right. And, and it was funny when we was hitting the race and, you know, um, I asked some people too that you met along the way and I said, you know, did you sleep good that night before? And they're like, I never sleep good before these. So there was some kind of like, okay, I'm not abnormal. Yeah. This is a thing. Yeah. And others had to drive in further for the race too. So they had a little bit of other logistical things to work out too.

But, um, yeah, I feel like that has— that was definitely a pro for you is that you were able to train on the course.

Yeah, uh, definitely. You're right. And, and, um, I probably, you know, maybe that's an advantage or disadvantage. You know, I'm gonna do others that'll be further away, but yeah, this being literally in the backyard, uh, the MST is only you know, a 10-minute ride from my house and there's multiple places to jump on it too, that I did have the ability throughout the training, you know, on our long runs that you scheduled for me, that I, I could just jump on and learn different parts of the terrain and, and kind of feel out what the course and the elevation were going to feel like, um, throughout the race. So yeah, I guess that's a good advantage to have, but I, for my first one, I'll take it.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. So we didn't sleep well the night before, and then you get to the race start.

Yeah, it was, it was good, a cold morning. So the temps were in the, I think the mid upper 30s, which is perfect for racing and the temps throughout the day. I think it got its warmest in the mid 60s for a handful of hours, but yeah, this toeing the line. Um, there weren't many racers. For the 100-miler. They had the 50K portion and the 50-mile portion. So I think in total there might have been around 50 total-ish, but about only half of us were doing the 100-miler. And, um, yeah, I'm new to this sport, so I didn't really know many of the people there, and I didn't really get to do the training runs that they had prescribed because my kids are playing soccer. So, you know, the runs just never really worked out for me to meet up with people. But I quickly did, you know, get to meet some folks at the starting line. And, and one of the funny, not funny, I ended up meeting these folks later in the first Out and Back was, um, you know, driving into the course, you know, it's dark and you think, I just don't want to hit a deer. Yeah. That's, you know, the deer is running across the road. And I had just come up before I got to the Rolling View Campground where the start race was, there was a tow truck. And I thought, oh man, I hope that's not a bunch of runners that are trying to get there. There was no other car. So I was glad there was— it didn't appear to be an accident, but I kind of plowed through and got to the, you know, the start area. And some— I overheard one of the racers say that they, they hit a deer and they had just gotten pulled out of the ditch. And I was like, oh, I saw— I, I had seen you. And I, I was like, I'm glad you're okay. And, you know, I said, it's probably inappropriate, but maybe it'll break the ice. I was like, the first thing I thought of was the scene from Tommy Boy where they hit the deer and they put deer in the car and they cracked up because they thought they were actually joking about the same thing when it had happened. So, um, but yeah, small world though. I ended up meeting them, um, in the first out and back of the race. And, uh, yeah, that, that's kind of part of that first part of that journey.

Yeah. Cool. So how did the first half of the race go, or how do you want to divide it?

I should say.

Yeah, we definitely want to get into the nighttime stuff. Yeah, that's, that's, that's pretty juicy.

So yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah, well, the first out and back is, um, we can do that pretty quickly. It was— so for this particular race, you know, I, and if others have done ultras, they can be all different kinds of formats. The goal of this one was to basically to run most of the coastline of Falls Lake. So, um, to do the mileage, they started at Rolling View and you went kind of northeast, um, out kind of near Redwood and all that. And so the out and back, I think total was like 28 to 29 miles, um, and that was the first portion, we'll call it that first instance. And it was good. I mean, you started off in the dark, so you're, you know, you're running with lights probably, I think, daybreak, because the time clock just had gone back the week before. So you got a little bit of the earlier daylight with that. I think daybreak came around 7-ish, so you had about 2 hours of running at night. The cool thing with this one was, you know, there's a clump of people, of course, in the beginning. So you were running with a lot of folks in small groups, um, just kind of navigating that portion of the trail. And it started— for me, the, the race started to spread itself out around 8, 9 miles, um, after that. And that's about when daybreak hit. So you could kind of tell everybody started to feel their own pace and kind of do their thing when, when light started to come. And, um, I did— I joined up from with some folks from the Medman area of North Carolina, and they had run a whole bunch of ultras. And, um, I got to talking to them, and, uh, you know, I had a— it was a good time, but it ended up being that these were the same folks that almost hit that, or hit that deer in the morning. And so there's this kind of small circle of a world. So I ended up running with them from about, uh, 9, 10 miles all the way through that first checkpoint, coming back at like mile 28, 29. And it could have been a blessing in disguise. So that part of the race, it was pretty muddy, um, from mile 9 to about mile maybe 17-ish, um, or 19, about 10 miles. It was fairly muddy. And I don't know if anyone remembers, we had a really wet February, and, um, it only rained a little bit right before this race, but, um, the lake was super full and it flooded the course for a lot of the time. So it made training on the course difficult, but the Army Corps of Engineers was releasing crazy amounts of water off of the— and it was fixing the course and drying it out. So we were pretty good, but there were some residuals. So that kind of wore your legs out, my legs out a little bit. And I, um, I hung with the two folks I met. I learned a lot about their experiences in ultras. They gave me some great tips about what I was going to experience later in the race and, you know, not to ignore nutrition and, you know, lots of cool tips. And, um, you know, it was a really nice camaraderie there for, you know, a good couple hours. And, uh, you know, that was nothing like learning as you go, right? Yeah.

Literally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And like you said, I kind of did it solo, but I also kind of adopted some crews that didn't know that I was adopted.

You're definitely going to have to touch on the whole pacer thing.

Yeah. Yep. So, um, but that was the big chunk of that experience. I mean, with that, that first out and back, I, when I got back to the, to the checkpoint to do the second out and back to Falls Dam, I was a little bit down on myself. I knew I was kind of behind where I thought I could have been. I was probably an hour off of my pace. I thought that I would have been in there around 11 o'clock, and it was almost right at noon exactly. So I was like, okay, well, you know, this is just kind of what it's going to be. I started to trek out with those same folks, but they had maybe saw something in me that I didn't see in me. And they, you know, they said, you know, you, you look like you got more in you. You, you don't stay behind and go enjoy your race and, and do your thing. And I remember, Coach, you even told me that in, in the training, um, when we were talking about the prep, it's easy to kind of fall in line and you have to run your own race. And I think they even said it to me, like, don't run our race, you got to go run yours. Because they kind of knew that I had a little bit more to give. So I graciously thanked them for all their tips. And yeah, from mile 29, you know, then this is the next part of the journey. So, um, yeah, if you— unless you have some questions We can definitely jump into, you know, 12:00 PM forward.

Oh yeah. Yeah. There's some good, some good stuff coming.

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so 12, so now you're talking about pace. So, you know, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking I'm an hour off of where I want to be. Part of me thinks I feel pretty good, you know, no blisters. There's no big pain. There's no chafing. Hydration feels good. I got like the peanut butter and jelly in me. I got some pickle juice in me. Um, some Gatorade. I'm like fueled up at hour 12, like mile 29, 30, ready to go. And, um, you know, I guess that's like you said, there's a racer in me. I thought, okay, well, let's not put the foot on the gas, but I picked it up a little bit and I hit mile 50. Uh, so now I'm solo, so I should probably premise that. So from, for now, uh, from 29 to mile 73, I'm pretty much on my own, um, solo. So no crew. All I have is the aid stations and what I'm carrying. And, um, I'll meet my wife a little bit on the way. So just to kind of—

I think you should touch on that. Like, was this race— were you able to have a pacer? And at what point were you able to have a pacer and why did you not get a racer?

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, yeah, that's okay.

Uh, I'm not giving you a hard time. People just sometimes, I think you were just at least in my mind, and you can correct me if I'm right, wrong, you were just like, well, I feel bad for asking somebody when people would just like bend over backwards to help you out. Hopefully you at least know that now.

I do. And, uh, that was the wake-up call for post, you know, even the, the remarks I got later, you know, were pretty emotional because you're like, man, you know, I didn't— I should have not been so humble or think that I was putting them out when they probably really could have probably pulled me through some of the times that we said at night that we'll get into that, you know, spoil, you know, um, keep you involved, engaged in this podcast. You know, the nighttime does get to be fun and unusual. But, um, yeah, the pacers were allowed after that first out-and-back. So at mile 29, pacers were allowed the rest of the way. And because of COVID they wanted you to keep kind of at the aid station stops and They only wanted one person in there, which I could lean in on. So they, they had some other folks there and I think it was great. I mean, people were really understanding of, you know, the, you know, maintaining the race rules and all that, you know, just for people's safety. But yeah, so, um, my whole part, you know, I, I never feel like I want to put someone out. So I didn't want to say, you know, oh, please, can you help me do it and all that. And I really should have, because there was a lot of volunteering, you know, people knowing that they offered, and I kind of just blew them off and said, no, no, no, I'll be good. And I appreciate it, but, you know, don't, don't worry, I know you're busy, you got kids, you got a family, you know, and I don't know what, what, where I'm going to be at what point in this course. So I, I, yeah, and we'll talk a little bit more about that. But, um, but yeah, so mile 29, 30 to 73, I was pretty much out there on my own, you know, in, in relative terms. And, um, you know, it's kind of a Zen thing too. You know, you, you kind of get lost out there, but I, I put my head down and I, I churned it out. And, um, I hit 50 miles in 12 hours, which I made up of— that was my, that was my other goal, is that, that was something in the back of my mind said I could do 100 miles in 24 hours and That reality hit me in the face a little bit later after mile 50, just as, as certain things start to happen that are out of your control. Yeah. So I, I was just over the 12-hour mark at mile 50 and, you know, feeling pretty good, but I also realized that 24 hours is probably not going to— it was not going to be a repeat effort to do that twice. So I started to pull back a little bit from there. Yeah. So then, uh, I get the 100K, that mark, I don't know, maintaining, I think I was hovering probably average around 12 to 13 minute mile pace, you know, for the, for the duration there. Uh, it was a little slower in that first part, but probably got that average back into that area. And, um, about right around mile, uh, the 100K areas, I think around when I met my wife. She had met me at Blue Jay Point. So I think that's around where we were. It might've been a little bit before the 100K mark, but that was good. Um, and that's kind of the first place where I realized, man, I wish I had a crew and I wish I had a pacer because when I saw her, that was a big, like, emotional boost, you know, just to see someone that tell you you're almost there and you're, you're doing great, you know, and all that. So that was tough, but to leave behind that. So that was, that was a difficult thing.

You did 40 miles. You did more than a marathon pretty much by yourself.

Yeah. And, you know, you didn't realize you were doing it until later. So that's the thing. When you look back and you're like, man, that was probably not a great idea. I mean, not that others haven't. Yeah, not that others haven't done it. You know, I know that there's a lot of folks that do these solo and have to because, you know, they travel out of state or, you know, or many hours to go do this and they can't bring people with them. So, you know, I know it's not uncommon to do these things by yourself, but I think a lot of them, if they had the preference, would love to have a running buddy, um, or pacer with them, uh, also, at least, at least for portions of it, if not, you know, of course, uh, the majority. But, uh, yeah, and that's— so at— when I left her, this is where the logistics and like constantly thinking your way through what was going to be left, because there— when I left my— I called her my Sherpa. She's probably not gonna appreciate that if she listens to this, but, um, yeah, uh, I told her that's a compliment.

Yeah, you know, at least in my mind it's a compliment.

Yeah, you can't climb Everest without one. No, right? So no. Yeah, so no, she, you know, she left and, um, or I left and, and I said, yeah, I, I really need to— I really want to get to the next checkpoint because a lot of my lighting and my, like, gear, the big gear stop was. So I had this thing, I was like, all right, I gotta try to get there. And I, I didn't. I was slowing down. So I got dark. I had lights still on me, so I had, I had packed lights as, you know, emergency backups in case, you know, this has happened. So I wasn't completely running in the dark. But when I left her, my— I could tell, like, things physically were starting to break down. So, you know, around that 100K mark which is, you know, that 63-mile-ish area. My ankles were starting to feel a little swollen. Well, I didn't realize they were feeling that— that was what it was, but I was like, yeah, my shoes are getting tight, you know. So, um, and my knees were starting to kind of creep up and, you know, hips. So things were starting to do their work. And, and kind of going back real quick, you know, for everyone thinking, you know, when I did my 100K, you know, that was most— that was all on the road. And road running, of course, is a lot different, as everyone can imagine or would logically understand, is a lot, you know, the trails are a lot harder impact. So mileage-wise, you know, I had been there before, you know, but this, you know, with the, the terrain being different and you kind of tweaking your ankle a little bit as you go, or you stumble, all takes a toll. And so even though the distance had been achieved before, it wasn't like this for me, at least. So I think that was all the reflection of just the pounding and the, you know, that up and down terrain and the elevation gain that you're getting and the elevation loss that you're getting too. And just starting to work every bit of your core muscle and your stabilizers and everything that you— is trying to keep you upright is, you know, fired up. Um, and it's been, you know, that is around the 12-hour mark, probably, you know, in that area, or, you know, actually it's probably 14-ish hours at the 100K. So, um, yeah, you're, you're feeling it at that point. And, um, yeah, so this is where the fun part gets.

So now it's dark, right?

Yeah, now it's dark. So I navigated up to the next checkpoint, which was the backdrop with, uh, with some lights, and it was dusk, so it wasn't completely dark yet. And, um, so the unique thing about the course was that you hit this checkpoint and then you had to go another like 2.5 miles past that. And then there was a turnaround and you kind of came back through that same checkpoint. And so it was the return of that checkpoint where it's, it's pretty much, you know, flat out dark now and, you know, the headlights and there's not many runners anymore. So as you can imagine, there was only 24 or 25 of us and we've all kind of spread ourselves out. So the fast runners are kind of gone. And I think I'm in the middle of the pack looking back, uh, around like the 100K, I was in the 7th place mark. And, um, so there's not many people around. I ran into a few, and, um, but, you know, it was dark and it was hard to tell who was coming and who was going at that point. But, uh, so I hit— I— so now I hit the checkpoint coming back, and this is where one of the big mistakes was made before I'm heading back to Rolling View. So this was, you know, I did the turnaround and came back through, and I, um, I was, I was pretty warm, you know. I was running, um, the temperatures were probably at that point getting— they're probably in the maybe the 50s at that point. And, you know, because I had been running most of the time, or, you know, run-walking, um, I wasn't feeling cold. So I, I didn't think I would need to put layers on. And this is again going back to where a crew would have told you it's going to be cold soon and you should probably put that hat on that you put in your bag and the long sleeve shirts. And that was the number one mistake that, if anything, you know, I packed it for a reason, right? It was there, it was known. Um, I knew that the temperatures are going to go back in the 30s, and you know, I should have known better too with the breeze coming off the lake, it was going to be cooler. And, um, yeah, when you start walking, you're not generating much heat anymore. So that was, uh, that was something that haunted me for a while. But on that portion though, of leaving, I had run into another runner and she ended up being the second place female on the, in the race, uh, which is pretty awesome. And, um, I, I kind of said, I was starting to struggle physically too, and I wasn't really sure how much more I was actually going to be able to run in the dark. Let alone by myself. Um, just physically, my stabilizer muscles were pretty shot, my hip flexors were— it was going to be tough. I kind of just— I think it's hard because you swallow some major pride in saying, well, now I just want to finish, and you're not going to finish like you had hoped for. And it wasn't like a lack of training or anything like that. I think I just wasn't really my body didn't know what it was going to feel, you know, after 70 miles of, of trail running.

Pounding.

Yeah, yeah, that pounding. And I, I guess you just don't know until you get there, right? And, and I think that's— I'm sure that this is a journey for those that are listening that have done ultras. This probably sounds maybe hopefully familiar, uh, to you all, that, yeah, I mean, every foot forward was going to be a new experience from there on out. And, um, you know, that, that education is just something that I'm going to continue to learn from. And, and like you and I will kind of put into the training plans to try to, you know, see where we can, you know, get you those extra 30 miles later, which is, it's a lot to say out loud, but, um, but yeah, so I, I met this other fantastic runner, uh, woman. It was her first ultra as well, the 100 miler at that. I said, hey, you know, why don't we— do you mind if I just share some lighting and, you know, some camaraderie? I think I just, you know, at that point I was thinking I just need to— I'm going to need to walk a little bit and just kind of figure out my legs and kind of get everything under, you know, situated and figured out. And she was— she graciously like allowed me to join her for a while. She had a pacer and a crew, a legit one. Yeah. And, um, you know, that, um, so this last 30 miles was I tell you what, that this is probably what it's all about in terms of endurance running and, and, um, what ultras are about in the journey that, you know, that 100 miles. I, I, we always say that that miles is— it sounds like a lot. It really is the journey. It's not necessarily— it's just this, uh, thing that you go on and you just want to kind of prove to yourself that you have it in you and, you know, So it was, it was really cool. She, um, she had her son with her that did it, and he— we had some similarities. It was funny, you're trading stories, and, um, he is in college and he just became an EMT. And I was like, man, I was, I was an EMT, I volunteered as a firefighter. And we, we shared some stories, and I— it was awesome to hear some of his. And it was just great to see, you know, a youth kind of involved and thinking of that as maybe a potential career. Her husband was running with us, so her son and husband would split. So one would kind of drive their mobile unit, you know, to the checkpoint, and then they would swap out, and then the other one would drive up. And they had it perfect. It was, it was really cool. And I was like, man, I, you know, it's thinking and watching them, I was like, this is what I should have asked for, you know. And, and, but it was really an experience, and, and they were, they were super nice to, you know, allow me to become part of their family for, you know, 10 hours of, of this race. And and just kind of share their company. And, um, you know, her husband, I got to know what he was about. He's, he's a Navy captain and he's in charge of taking care of the submariners. You know, they, they're from Virginia, so that was just an amazing story. And, and she was also a nurse and, um, they had a huge family and they had a soccer family, so it was, it was really cool, you know. So we're, we're getting on it and she had fallen just before I had linked up with her, and she was a little hesitant on, you know, would she be able to kind of sustain this, this race too without getting hurt the rest of the way. And then we kind of had this agreement. I said, well, you know, I'll, I'll jog with you. You have your son and your husband, and, you know, we'll kind of, you know, we'll just look out for each other. But I said, you know, if you feel it, like, take off and go, you know, if you, if you want to go. And she said the same to me. If I felt physically like I was ready to take off to do so. And it was funny, we kind of hour by hour would kind of have that conversation, and we both just didn't— we, we wanted to enjoy the experience without like having a major injury occur. So we kind of made this, you know, mutual agreement that, you know, we would kind of hang out with for this the rest of the way. And it was a blessing in disguise to say that I— it would have been really hard to be solo out there at night and not talking yourself out of, you know, staying in the race, you know. And so that they were like, you know, the perfect— it was just, it was like meant to be, yeah. So it was pretty cool. Let's see what else happened. Uh, lighting, lighting was good. I mean, my headlamp burned out about an hour before daybreak. So advice to everyone else, um, I had other lights too. Headlamps are pretty important. That's another piece of equipment for the next one. I'll probably upgrade and get like a better battery life. I thought it was going to be pretty good, but you know, you, you have to factor in potentially 8 to 10 hours of needing that. So I, I kind of ruled out— I forgot the first 2 hours I had used it in the beginning, and I failed to get that recharged appropriately. But you know, it was— I had plenty of other lights, but a good headlamp, uh, is very wise to have, especially on the trails and trying to, to stay with the blazes and, and, you know, keeping your sights on, you know, navigating that correctly. Yeah, that was a big one. Now, nutrition, I guess. I don't know if you want to get into that first.

Well, of course.

Yeah.

So all the chocolate-covered raisins, Jay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, well, as you can imagine, so this is my naivety, or naive. I'm being naive about You know, nutrition and being cold. So I know Coach will probably chime in here. Um, shivering and trying to stay warm, I probably burned a lot more calories and energy. Yeah, trying to do that. And, um, I got really hungry, you know, those last 10 hours, you know, that last, uh, 30 hours, 30 miles of, of this race. It was kind of— it was funny but not funny because you hit these checkpoints and they have some food And you start eating things that you just didn't have in your carbs. Like, I remember jonesing for— they had somebody at one of the aid stations had these chocolate-covered marshmallows. Like, I don't know, they were the best. I can't find them. I've been searching the internet for—

it was magic marshmallows.

Yeah, I swear. Yeah. I'm curious if they even existed now. Yeah, I might have been on some weird— in some weird place. But, uh, they were amazing. Like, I, I even— it was funny because I, when I first ate them, I said, oh, are these going to be here when I come back? You know, because you get the loop back. And he said— I said, oh great. And they were. And I was like, hey, do you mind if I like take 3 of these? So I don't even know how many calories they were, but simple joys when you're out there for that long. Yeah. But, um, that was probably like those and Fig Newtons, you know. I, I felt it was funny because I was hoarding. Like, I was like, well, I'll just— I stuffed my pack with all these things and But, um, but I was, I was super hungry. Like, it was kind of amazing how much hungrier I was. And, you know, maybe it was just body being off-kilter, you know, like you're also not used to being up this long. So I think your body is just trying to find maybe as much energy as it can to just stay awake and sustain, you know. And, um, yeah, looking for any kind of carbs or sugar it can get. And, you know, ramen noodles were amazing. You know, that, that hot, warm thing in your belly. You know, they had some boiled potatoes and quesadillas. So those are the big items. But yeah, I was pretty shocked. And, you know, again, that's a learning curve, you know, is how cold I got. That was— that could have been dangerous too, you know, if I were by myself. That, that could have been potentially a bad thing. And the last thing about that, you know, the folks, the lady and the husband and their son that I was running with, they even knew it. And, you know, they saw it in me. And I kind of refused because multiple times they had said, you know, we have a spare blanket in the car. You know, it's a soccer blanket we just keep there in case. And I was like, no, you know, you knew me. You're like, no, I'm okay. Like, it'll be all right. And finally they're like, look, take the blanket. Yeah. And they— and I like I look like, um, you know, hilarious. I had it like covered over my head and like tucked under my chin. Yeah. And I, and I just kind of trudged along with it. And, um, I kept that, you know, for, you know, a good 3, 4 hours. And it probably saved me a lot because just having that over your head and it was amazing how much warmth you got right back. So again, they were frustrating that I was ignorant and, um, I, I didn't pay attention, uh, that— but that's part of the, you know, the learning process. Yeah, you just don't know. Yeah. So that was pretty, pretty awesome though. And I'm glad that I made some friends along the way. And, you know, the cool thing is I've linked up with them through social media and, you know, yeah, following them and encouraging them on their next trail races and let them know where I was thinking about running next to see if they would be there. But also, you know, sharing stories and yeah. So the, it is a great community and, and, you know, now, now I feel like I've met some folks along the way and yeah, it's been pretty awesome.

So other than the, um, what sounds like having a crew and or pacers to tell you to put your shirt on, it was cold. Is there anything else you think you would have done differently?

Oh man, that's a, it's a great one. You know, I think not so much. I mean, those are the two biggest items. You know, elevation is something that maybe is something that in our training, which, you know, spoiler alert, you're already helping me with now with the next, the next go, is, um, it's really hard to do if you don't live in the mountains, uh, or, you know, where depending on where you want to do your ultra races is, um is really taking a look, a hard look at the course that you're going to pick or, or the terrain you're going to run. And, and it's hard to mimic what you're going to be up against, but trying to find a way to get creative with simulating what tired legs are going to feel like, and to the point where you're not going to get injured. Of course, you don't want to run with swollen ankles and knees, but I think that would be another takeaway is I think we did an amazing job prepping for this, but I also asked a lot of you, Coach, to kind of get me ready for it because, you know, it was less than 16 weeks that we had to really focus on the 100 miler, you know, after I found the MST-100 to sign up for. I think it will— I signed up for it in a little bit in December, which wasn't too far after the 100K, um, because, you know, there was so many uncertainties then too. Yeah, you're right.

I mean, we're like The vaccine had just come out and we didn't know whether races were going to go off or not, but ultras are luckily one of those that are— you could generally be pretty well socially distanced.

Yeah.

As you described for 40 miles of your journey.

Yeah, I know it was, I was super happy that they were able to get this race on. Yeah. It was really frustrating for a lot of people, a lot of you know, a lot of athletes and, you know, people who love these environments, not necessarily even maybe for the competition, but just the camaraderie or that training goal, you know, that you, you look forward to that, to that t-shirt and to that moment where, you know, you—

dude, your buckle, that thing was legit. I'm gonna have to be— I'm gonna have to get another picture of it and make sure that I post it. That thing was amazing.

Yeah. So yeah, that's a great piece, you know. Um, so all those out there, I mean, if you're not familiar with ultras, you know, the cool medal is a belt buckle, which, you know, I've always kind of giggled at, but it is, um, that's cool. Yeah, that's a piece of hardware that is really, yeah, something else. It felt really awesome to have that in my hands at the end. It's just, it's unique. Yeah, it's, um, it's just a great reminder of something that, you know, geez, when I started running in 2001, you know, 100 miler was never there, you know, it was never a thought. So this was just a kind of a cool thing. And, you know, the nice thing is no matter, you know, people who run, my sister runs like just a 5K and all that, you know, they're amazed. And I thought, you know, one thing is don't get caught up on the mileage. You know, everybody's journey, whatever distance it is, is equally as difficult or meaningful to them as this was to me. So I encourage everyone to just have fun with it, you know, have fun with running. If you really enjoy it, you know, try to challenge yourself to go further, but never think about the mileage. Just think about, you know, the adventure that you're having. Doesn't matter how far it is. And, you know, that it sounds kind of hokey and corny, but that's really what I feel like it's all about. And, and, you know, most of the running community, you know, is like that too. So that's a big piece of advice I hope for everyone is don't think You have to run more than a marathon to have fun, just enjoy it.

So you're jumping ahead of me.

Yeah. Yeah.

Cause we have to do our 2 to 3 tips before we get there. What was the, what was the weirdest thing that happened to you either in training or on race day, or maybe even the silliest other than the marshmallows? That was pretty awesome.

Yeah. Oh man. Silliest. Well, So you put me out there on some night runs before this, and, um, and I kind of— well, I hope nobody from like, uh, Olmsted Parks and Rec is listening.

I, I know it's happening.

Yeah. So I, I saw— yeah, but, um, one of the— one of those runs, you're— so your senses are really like heightened when you're out there by yourself, you know, whether you're on a road or in the woods. Man, there was something that felt in the, in one of the creeks out by the Ebenezer Church Road area of Homestead in the dark. I think I might have ran my fastest mile ever, um, to back to my car. I, you know, I, I'm sure it was nothing, but the sound of whatever fell in that creek did not seem like normal. I don't know what it was, but that, that was one of the funnier, I, like, by myself moments that I've had. I mean, there's other ones where You know, during the training runs, people would see, you know, you— I did a 5-hour run and they're like, what do you— and I was like, yeah, that was a training run. You know, so some of those are kind of those quirky things. They're, you know, you know, they're funny. But I think that incident in the— in Olmsted was funny to me because when I got back to my car, I almost kind of laughed, but I look— I had to look back at my splits and I was like, yep, that was pretty fast mile.

Yeah. Adrenaline is a beautiful thing.

Yeah, it was wild, but Yeah, I think those— I'm sure people had those things where animals have come up on them. Yeah. Other night runs where you're running with your lights, there's some deer on the trails and you kind of peek your head up and you just see these eyeballs looking at you. That was pretty wild and crazy and funny, but those are some of the great moments though, that honestly, I guess I really love about trails. There's a— you are out there by yourself, even on trail runs, but some of the things that you just come up on are really special and You have to even stop sometimes and try to take a picture or just stop and, you know, not worry about your pace. Just take a, you know, hawks or eagles to deer to just different things. It's just, it's a really cool thing. And I think along the journey that those are some of the really great moments that I like, just kind of being out there and just seeing some things. Yeah. That you don't see when you're running on the road and getting passed by cars.

You mentioned your headlamps. What were your most essential, like the piece or pieces of gear that you absolutely would not do without?

Yeah. CamelBak, of course, you know, that became my buddy. I mean, you know, the, the Nuun tablets, uh, that you recommended the— so Nuun tablets, if anyone doesn't know, it's like a, like an electrolyte supplement that you can throw in your water and, uh, helps with that, that like salt balance. And, you know, we had talked about that, that sweat test, you know, So for me, hydration was key. So keeping those with me, that was a, that's probably my number one buddy piece of equipment, of course. And that's, that's probably an easy one.

And that was not something you did your marathons with.

Right, right, right. So yeah, like training and getting used to wearing that pack and all that, you know, and carrying the water and just getting used to drinking that much that often, you know, that's a whole other piece of the training. Yeah. That you've had, you had to remind me a lot on is techniques of, you know, taking gulps or using your, your, your watch, you know, when you get buzzed, you know, to, as it also as a reminder to, hey, take a drink, you know, when that, when your split, your buzzer goes off or your mileage marker goes off on your, on your wrist. So yeah, to me, uh, finding a good CamelBak or a good vest for these kinds of races, uh, that, that's a key piece. And, and the one I ran with in this race was not the one I ran with when I did my, um, my 100K, you know, I had to get used to that. Not a big deal with equipment, but you know, yeah, you do. You don't want to run in the new race with new stuff. So by far, and then yeah, of course, like you mentioned, second and, and just as important is, um, lighting. Yeah, uh, I had some good lighting. The lighting I had was when I was doing the nighttime trails. I didn't go on the single track too much, So I didn't really realize how much lighting you would need, you know, because I was running more of the bike and bridle type trails that are wider and you, you know, you have better visibility and, you know, you have that same on the road. So my lighting, I was used to that kind of visibility.

Yeah.

That's where I learned a little bit better of a, like a little higher lumens or a little bit better of a reach for your lighting on your headlamp or any other lamp is. Is really key when you're kind of on a singletrack and not that it didn't, it wasn't a detriment, but that is another key piece of equipment I would, um, you know, recommend folks think about and test out. Yeah.

All right. So I know you already kind of mentioned your, uh, you know, not getting caught up with the mileage. Is there maybe one or two other tidbits to leave people with on if they were to get started or even in your journey, what would you want to leave them with?

Yeah. So the, yeah, the distance, um, some things to think about is when you're plotting out that course, uh, one thing is, and in your training, and this is something I had learned a little bit too late in the training, is you would read it and you'd see advice on some Facebook groups or forums that you would read. A lot of people would say walk the uphills. Yeah, listen to that. Save your legs. And of course, you know which hills you can walk up. But interval training is pretty much what endurance training is. And when you think about interval training, think about running intervals for 24 to 30 hours and having the mental fortitude that when you stop to walk, or the mental strength to say, start running again, because you can easily zone out because you're exhausted or, you know, you just don't want to at that moment. But what I would do is, you know, if I did walk a hill, I would pick a spot, you know, maybe 50 or 100 yards in front of me or feet, whatever it would be, a landmark or a tree or a root and say, okay, when I hit that root, I'm going to start running again. So you kind of do, you could walk in, you could walk it as slow as you wanted to get to that root. But but that you, you had to tell yourself, got to keep it going because you, you know, A, if you slow down too much, you're going to get tight and you're going to start to feel the pain set in. But you just, that's another, just another piece. But also too, in that larger part where I was mentioning, like, if you can scope out the course or if you can mimic what you're going to be up against, um, I think I mentioned this to you, coach, you know, kind of towards the end when we were looking at the, at the course and where the aid stations were, this is a good way to do it. Is to mentally chew that course up in your brain is that, like, the mileage— don't get stuck on the mileage. You can think about when's the next aid station going to come and think about that as the segment of the race you want to achieve. Yeah, within that segment, get creative and create your own goal and say, okay, well, this segment, I'm going to slow this down and I might back my pace off a little bit until I get to this aid station, kind of recover. And then that next segment will be the next piece of the race that you— and that's kind of like what it is. It's almost, you know, like, uh, I don't know, I'm a 1980s, '90s kid, you know, with Pac-Man, you kind of take that little pellet and you chew that thing up as you, as you manipulate that course. And yeah, I think that helps because you're out there a while and you kind of, you don't want to get stuck on, shoot, I'm only at mile 30. I have 70 more of these to go. Because if you start thinking it like that, it's— you're gonna go down a dark rabbit hole where you just have to think, I only have 3 more miles till the next aid station, or my next pacer is going to be meeting me at this crossroad. I can't wait to see them. You know, like, so all those things that I'm telling you all now, I, I learned as I went. And, and those are, those are some kind of things that I, I didn't know until I'd done it. But I hope that you all— that'll be a little bit of a those that listen might be a cool way for you to tackle something like this, or maybe taking a shot at doing a trail race or an ultra, or hey, shoot, it would even work in any kind of race. You know, think about those different ways to set small goals in the big picture.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Very— I think that's a great way to end things. What I heard was just keep putting one foot in front of the other. And really focusing on the good things.

Yeah. Yeah. And, and yeah, when you hit your limits, don't be afraid to ask people, you know, whether it is a, you know, a coach that can help you or a friend or someone like, yeah, definitely. Yeah. Reach out and get advice and test the advice, you know, that, yeah, it's, it's, it was fun. It was, it's a blast. And yeah, I really look forward to the next challenge and, you know, seeing what, what I learn and can put to that next one. So it's going to be fun.

So really briefly, what's your next race? You got to tell me.

Yeah. So, uh, I'm going to do a 50K, as funny air quotes, a training race in, uh, the Sandhills area on Labor Day weekend. But the next kind of big one is going to be Hanging Rock to Pilot Mountain, uh, on October 2nd. So anyone's listening, you know, sign up. I'd love to see you out there. So this one, it's a shorter race, it's 50 miles, but the elevation is the same I experienced in the 100-mile for the MST. So I'm gonna get almost like twice the punch in half the distance. So yeah, it's gonna be— so that kind of elevation. Yeah, yeah. So that, that'll be the big one. So, um, but then, then 2022, yeah, I definitely look forward to hitting that next belt buckle on that 100-miler again. So that'll be Awesome.

Jay, thank you so much for sharing your journey, for sharing your experience. I just, I hope you guys enjoyed it as much as I did because I just, I could sit here and, you know, it's, it's like Papa Bear reading me a book.

Well, no, thank you very much for the opportunity to talk to everyone and good luck to everyone out there. And, um, yeah, I hope to see you all along the way. Awesome. Thank you.