Goal Setting for Endurance Athletes: Try This Different Approach

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I'll see you there. All right. Welcome back to the Find Your Edge podcast and happy New Year. So in order to celebrate the new year, which is a great time when we come to goal setting, what are we gonna do for 2023? I have invited Coach Ryan to talk a little bit about his specific goal setting technique that seems to work really well. So we're gonna talk about that. And, but first of all, welcome to the show.

Hi, nice to see you.

Woo-hoo. All right. So we work with quite a few athletes, typically they're triathletes, but we also have some runners. We work with people who are trying to lose weight. We work with people who wanna do certain races or, you know, play with their grandkids or just like generally be healthier. So One of our steps in our processes with working with folks is, do we have these goals worked out appropriately? And one of the methods that we used to use was SMART goals, but you are an anti-SMART goal kind of guy.

I'm so anti-SMART goals.

Yes. And there's so many different like acronym things, but anyway, so if anybody is familiar, SMART goal is the Specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and time-sensitive goals. Why is that something that you don't like?

Well, I think it's a lot of reasons. And part of it is I sometimes I work my way back through like, like an employment type direction and how you spend a lot of time discussing vocabulary and getting into the nuances of the, of the language. And you really just end up saying the same thing over and over again, like specific and measurable, that those are the same thing. That's the same, it's the same question. And then attainable or achievable, realistic and timely, also the same thing. So I feel like it's really 2 questions instead of 5, and you can turn that into 5 meetings pretty quick and still not accomplish anything. But also they can be limiting. Like they can stifle a little bit of creativity, to take away the dreamworks. Basically, they are, don't think big. They are think small, reduce risk, and just do the mundane things until you get done at the end. And even worse, you might accomplish the goals and not know that your efforts is what caused them. So you can get outcomes without even being part of the equation.

So what I hear you saying is we need to do some level of big thinking. So in other words, challenge ourselves.

Challenge is like really, really important because you'll never reach a spot where you'll be creative or you'll reach or you'll do the hard things as opposed to just doing enough to get by.

Which leads us to That just made me think of the process. And we'll definitely have to talk about that too, as we aim for these various goals. But you have this strategy that you've kind of like taken from various pieces and cobbled together and made it this your own little fun little acronym. So tell us about that, how you came into it and why you think this is effective.

I went searching for alternatives to SMART goals. Cause I'm like, this can't be the only way to set a goal. Landed on an article and it sort of mapped out a little bit more gracefully or more intricate than I just did about what's wrong with SMART goals. You know, other people are more graceful with their vocabulary than I am, but there were several others. There was one called the DUMB goal, and it started with the word dream. There was another one that was PACT, B-A-C-T. And I liked that it had the word continuous in it. The one that I liked the most was called WOOP, W-O-O-P, wish, outcome, obstacle, and plan. And then there was HARD, and what was nice about that was the letter R, which was required or routine. And then GROW had vocabulary like obstacles, WILL, otherwise also known as motivation. So I was still looking for— and anytime we have a conversation with someone, we could always use one of those as, as a guideline or pick and choose from whatever you want to do. But it still didn't quite answer the question that I was looking for to be more like triathlon specific. And I landed on asking questions first and then trying to find a way to fit them into an acronym. Juggled them around a few times and ended up with the acronym END UP, E-N-D-U-P. That's it. End of podcast.

You're welcome, folks. Thanks for listening.

All right.

So basically we've— there are so many different acronyms and methods. You were sort of picking and choosing what were the things that were meaningful and stuck out to you. To make more, make this process more effective, challenging, but not too challenging, exciting, like with that whole dream process. So walk us through each acronym. What is E?

Yeah. And also to, to be valuing a little bit more of an emotional mindset, like the, the good feels. So, because not often do we run across an athlete. We do. And maybe those that we do, Chris doesn't assign to me the ones that want to qualify for a certain, you know, race in the future or meet a certain power goal on the bike and things like that. They're very specific, get a podium and things like that. So specific and measurable for, I want to feel good at the end of the day is not really, we're not going anywhere with that. So the E. Stands for itself, is to end up. So specifically when I'm working with an athlete and it's like that initial meeting, the intake, that's the question is where do you want to end up at this process? You've signed up for a race. You signed up to join a team. You signed up for coaching. Where do you want to end up at the end of this? Where do you see yourself? Quite often I get a response that sounds sort of like, I want to finish the race, number one. And, but when I get to the starting line, I want to feel very confident that I did all that I could do to prepare. I want to enjoy my time while I'm out there. If I'm going to be doing a half Ironman and it's going to take me 6 to 8 hours to do that, I would like to enjoy some of that time. And at the end, I would want to feel really accomplished, and I want to feel like I did something really special and that I'm really proud of myself, and now that maybe other people are really proud of me too.

So it sounds like they've got like a, a bit of this like visualization, like where do you actually see yourself? Okay, so we've got end up. Anything else on that?

No, that's perfect.

Sweet.

All right, and then what do we have For the next piece, N stands for need. So what do you need to end up there? Usually the next question I ask is, okay, you signed up for the 70.3 in Virginia, Blue Ridge Ironman race. If you did that race tomorrow, would you have all those feelings, feel like you were prepared, feel like you had a good time, feel like you were accomplished and that you even finished? And the answer is no. No. So, okay, what do you need? What's missing for you to reach that goal? And what I'm looking for here are certain evidence of certain skills that they might be lacking or fitness levels. In some cases, it's knowledge, like, I don't even know what questions to ask or know what kind of gear to have, things like that. In other cases, it might be that they need the guidance and the coaching. And also a hot item would be the accountability, then the, which actually might show up a little bit later also, and the sense of belonging, that social aspect piece. So usually those are the themes. And if an athlete's kind of struggling to identify their needs, then I'll say, what, What skills are you missing? What do you even know what you don't know kind of thing. And that's usually what we're trying to do is fill those gaps. Also time, time can show up instead of showing up the end of a SMART goal and being timely, you know, I need time to get there. And it's going to be more than 3 weeks of training. It might be around 3 months of training or more.

Yeah. All right, cool. So we got a lot of pieces in there. And then what's next?

I think that with like one of my recent conversations, you know, going right back to that Virginia race. In fact, there's two that I've been talking to recently and the bike is their newest sort of lowest skill area where they feel like they have the most amount of risk or the most amount of opportunity to gain. So we know going in when we develop that plan. That we gotta work in that specific skillset and that specific endurance around biking because it's a difficult course and they said they wanted to have a good time.

Yeah, definitely. And sometimes it's difficult when you're just virtual with someone to like truly see, okay, what kind of bike skills are we looking at?

Mm-hmm.

So when we actually get physically outside with an athlete, that is a huge indicator, at least from my perspective, to see like, oh, okay, we need to work on shifting specifically, or cadence, or can you drink while you're on the bike?

Yeah, exactly. So exactly that. In fact, one of the, one of the clients is, you know, she joined us last summer and we literally taught her how to ride a bike, or she, I mean, hadn't rode a bike since being a child, but a road bike and clipped in is Another story. So we had to do a lot just to learn how to clip in and clip out. And then she was able to do enough to get through her first sprint, get through her first Olympic, and then sign up for a 70.3 this coming summer. But still, we talked about like, I don't even know, like, I don't think you can scratch your, an itchy spot on the side, you know, take your hands off the handlebars or, you know, If you're, when are you going to drink on the, drink on the ride? You know, she's still a type of person that would have to pull over and get something to drink, which is an option. You can do that. Take a break.

Sure.

Just, just knowing, like building that out.

Yeah, for sure. Like building that into the plan of like, okay, well, our estimation is it's going to take you this long and can we do it?

And we're going to have to stop and take this many breaks and And how many people say, like, we as coaches, we kind of giggle about this a lot. And a lot of people in triathlon, we giggle about how, you know, you pull up on somebody and you say, you know, you can, you can change your gears. You know, you can actually shift. And they're like, nope, not ready. They would rather just keep mashing their pedal instead of shifting that lever 3 times to get into easier gear. That's too hard.

Yes, I agree. Which is interesting. And it. Everything has like a, such a fascinating journey. And that's what I love about this job is that like the client you just mentioned, she came in and was like, I don't even know how to ride a bike. Like, we're just, I think you just rode in the parking lot. Like the first time you worked with her, we didn't even get on the road, but somebody like that who obviously their, their goals are changing pretty quickly because their skillset is improving. But like you mentioned, you know, shifting, which Which again, we giggle a little bit, but yeah, I remember one instance when my first year's coaching, I remember pulling up next to somebody being like, okay, so we're going to shift. And she was like, she's like, oh, what would I say? I think she was in her big ring. And so this is when, so she had, she had two rings up front and she was in her big ring and she was mashing. I said, wait, please shift to your little ring. And she said, what's a ring? And I said, okay, this gives me some good information. We need to back it up a little bit. But then as you progress, and get more nitty-gritty into like, okay, now I want to reach, say, certain power goals. Or then you can get into knowing what gear you're in to be able to produce a certain power and cadence at the same time, which is like mind-blowing. Anyway, where were we? D, I think.

Sometimes I skip D and I go to the U, but the D is important because why is it important?

Because, well, what is it first? Why is it important?

You have to determine. What attitudes, behaviors, and mindsets are required to address your needs that you need to reach the goal at the end. So, you know, you're looking for things like, I'm going to be consistent, or I want to be enthusiastic, or I want to have a growth mindset, or I'm going to trust the process. These are kinds of phrases or trigger words that I, I'm looking for when I'm asking this question. And again, it's always going kind of going back through the acronym. So what kind of belief system do I need to have to get the skill sets that are needed to meet the goal at the end? I've learned that there's a secondary question that can be really helpful here. Instead of just saying, what attitudes and beliefs do you need? I've learned to ask, what are some attitudes, behaviors, and mindsets that you currently have, or that you used last year that you plan to continue doing? Because you're, you're a very successful person. You're a very successful athlete. You didn't just happenstance on that with bad behaviors. Sure, there might've been some things that you want to improve on, but we'll get there in a second. What things do you want to make sure that you take with you into this next season? And asking some athletes stuff like that, even around New Year's resolutions, is kind of fun because it's not all about change all the time. It's about being satisfied with what you've done and focusing on these were good things. And I want to continue to do that. And I'm going to continue to do them well. And then you say, well, what were some things that you tried that you had trouble maintaining? What were some things that you wish you had done? And what are some things that are missing from your, that belief system, your attitudes and behaviors that can help you? And then you kind of identify habits. You work habits there.

So in a way, you're kind of asking the athlete to high-five themselves. Like, hey, look at all the cool things that's gotten you to this point. What are you going to keep doing? And like, let's give a little virtual high five there.

Well, it's kind of a problem with growth mindset because we're always wanting to like do better and we want to always keep reaching. And sometimes you kind of feel like unsuccessful because you still feel like you're reaching, like instead of sort of plateauing for a minute and living where you are. And sort of like being proficient in the area of your development of where you're at instead of what's the next step, what's the next step, because eventually you're going to hit a spot where I guess ability beats potential and then you can kind of feel like, I just don't feel like I'm getting anywhere because when you really are, you're just always growing.

I think that's a testament to a lot of like things that are on social media. I mean, That's like Garmin's whole hashtag beat yesterday, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I just heard you griping about social media before we got on our meeting.

Oh yes. I am not. Yeah. Don't follow me on social media. I don't post anything. You can follow the Endurance Edge. We have a great, we have a great social media manager. She's awesome. But yeah, it's messages like that that I think people are like, oh, well, I didn't progress that quickly. Or, or again, I, it maybe it's something with mindset or not being able to actually see the improvements or, or somebody like us to point them out, like, hey, look, you're making progress here.

And like imposter syndrome.

Oh yeah.

Comparison syndrome. Everything's a syndrome, but yes, just like those are traps that actually get in your way, which move right into U, by the way, the letter U, not you, the person, the letter U. Oh, okay.

Let's talk about U, U the letter.

U, uncover the predicted barriers and challenges. One of the things that SMART goals definitely don't do is to consider any glitches, hardships, challenges, Um, or even because there will be—

let's just put that out there. Yeah, always there will be. Yeah.

And for this one is more like the predictable ones, you know, like you have to be flexible to deal with things that come up, things that derail your plan. But also there are some things that you can predict, like your calendar, your work-life balance and family balance, even financial things, your existing Medical conditions, you might have some barriers physically. That knee that always gets messed up because you injured it in high school or whatever can get sort of problematic. So these are the things that you're listing as like, I'm uncovering the barriers and challenges right now that I expect to get in the way, but I have these attitudes and behaviors to cope with them, which will support my ability to increase my skills and the things that I need to end up where I want to be.

So it kind of sounds like you're visualizing what you want, then identifying what you need, but also like visualizing, okay, well, almost like a worst-case scenario. Here are all the things that can happen. And are you creating like potential solutions, or is this just like, no, we're just laying out what could happen, right?

Yeah, I think more like that, laying out what could happen and knowing that you have the wherewithal to manage it. You know, you expected this to happen. You even identified it on your calendar saying you're going to be going on a wedding trip for 3 or 4 days. So that's sort of predictable, but nitty-gritty Like you can predict things that might revolve around like your emotional wellbeing as well. If you have certain patterns with your mental health or ways that you respond to stress, or an understanding that when your work life has projects like around the quarterly due dates and things of that nature, that, you know, that you might struggle with your nutrition or, you know, might miss a few workouts because responsibilities are pulling you in a different direction and stressing you out, stuff like that. It's about being realistic and understanding yourself.

Yeah. That's, um, I mean, shameless plug. I feel like for a coach, because especially the athletes who I've coached for years, you know, I think sometimes we're, and maybe not sometimes we're taught as coaches, like, this is how you get an athlete from point A to point B. Like you've got X number of weeks. You build them up in this specific way and then they do the race and the end. Well, that rarely happens. You know, we either have several races or we have, like you had mentioned, like, okay, well, I'm going to a wedding, or I had an athlete this weekend who just tripped and fell on the trail and she injured her shoulder. And that might be a 2-week wait. That might be a 4-week wait to like get things better. So just navigating the different barriers, the different things that go on with life, but still keeping it like, okay, I I still know that this is my goal, but what can we get accomplished and what different ways can we accomplish it? You know, like, okay, well, we're not going to be in the pool because you injured your shoulder. That's fine. Don't worry about it. Let's keep focusing on this, this, and this. And I think sometimes when people are navigating that process on their own, it's overwhelming. And then either they quit or—

well, they might decide it's just not worth it, you know?

Oh yes. Yeah.

Or they don't know how to get back to where they left off, or they feel like they've lost everything that they've worked for. Now I'm not the nutrition guy, but I do know that I'll just make it about myself. If I try to, try to not drink beer for, I don't know, however long I feel like that. And then I have one, well then I might as well have whatever else is in the fridge and keep going, you know?

Yeah. Um, or, you know, you said you're the anti-Dry January. I'm actually anti-giving things up completely, but yeah, I like to set positive goals.

Not that— and actually, I didn't even get to that when we said at the onset, like, some rules. Like, when you're setting a goal, it has to be positive in nature, as opposed to I want to stop doing something, or I want to not feel bad, and things like that. You got to phrase things in a positive way.

Well, a lot of that is like a positive mindset and like actual brain and body physical response. Like you're not going to get this lovely dopamine hit from being like, I'm going to stop doing X. You're like, okay, we want to sort of reshape that a little bit. So yeah. All right. I think we missed one. Did we miss P? I think we missed P.

We just didn't get there yet. We didn't miss it.

Oh, okay. You know, you and I, we'd like to go on our little tangents.

Well, it's easy. Can either be for plan or for perform. The P, the coach will do the planning. The athlete will do the performing and we'll check in on the process. If you don't have a coach and you've got to do your own plan and your own performing. So it really just is about sort of writing it down, mapping it out. Designing things out, you can incorporate different things like timeliness or block scheduling and things of that nature. And once you have the big picture plan, so you've got, where do I want to end up? What do I have? What needs am I missing in skills that I must gain? You have determined your attitudes and behaviors, you've uncovered your predictable challenges, and you started the plan. The whole picture. You can then use the similar process to create weekly or daily healthy habits. So in my work life, outside of Endurance Edge, sometimes I do One Minute Manager, which I don't know if you know what that is, but basically it just means before you do anything, before you check your email, before you check your voicemail, before you get into stuff, you just spend a few minutes to think about your day and what is it that you want to accomplish. In this format, you can do that. At the end of the day, where do I want to end up? How will I know that I've had a productive day? And it can even be a feelings question. I got to the end of the day and I felt good about it. And I didn't leave anything out there unfinished. And if I did, I left it unfinished for a reason because it wasn't urgent or something. So you can do your end-up process daily and figure out what it is that you need to accomplish a good day. Choose or determine your attitude that you, that you want to have at work. Uncover the barriers. You've got 3 meetings on a schedule, a 2-hour workout, kid pickups, dinner to plan for. Those are your predictable challenges for the day. And you would still like to feel good at the end of it. And then you perform, you just, you do your day. So that's why I like the end-up goal process because I find it to be flexible. I think it works to highlight the feels of things, making sure that you feel good about yourself and that you feel good about your day and the process, because maybe you have a happier day. Maybe you have more successful day. Maybe you were more present and alive and engaging with your kids or your dogs or whatever.

Yeah, I think that's a great last piece of that puzzle. And, uh, this also reminds me of like, okay, well, how many things did you put on your checklist? And you tied it back nicely with like, well, what are your barriers? Okay, you have to do this, this, and this, and then the day is up. So, which in my mind is don't try to do too many things at once. So in other words, you know, like if an athlete comes to us and they're like, well, I want to run faster and I want to increase my power and I want to do my first 70.3, and then maybe I also want to do an Ironman. It's like, okay, hang on. We got a lot going on there. Let's rewind a little bit and let's take it one step at a time.

And simplify it and chunk it out, break it into manageable parts.

Yeah.

Keep it simple, silly. Who said that the other day? Someone said, keep it simple, silly. Oh no. Or sweetie or something. That's what it was. It was sweetie. Coach Christie said sweetie. And I was like, oh, every time she calls me sweetie, I know she really means stupid. Yeah.

Ah, dang. All right. So I know you've kind of done this already, but like quick summary, let's start with your method of why you think this is important and then just walk us through those steps one more time.

I think it's important because this is just one of the many directions to go when it comes to setting a goal. Doesn't matter if you have a vision board or a specific SMART goal that's on a rubric. With achievable outcomes and things of that nature, or one of these other— what was one of those other ones? A DUMB goal, a WOOP goal, PACT goal. So there's a good, you know, few handfuls out there that can be guidance for you, and they can be a process for you to sort of find a way to feel successful, to feel like you are achieving something, and know that what you're doing day to day has a connection to what you want to achieve at the end. But just to hit it one more time, like you asked, the end up is— the E is for where do you want to end up at the end of this thing that you signed up for, or at this— the end of this goal. And is the needs— what's missing? What do you need to make sure that you achieve that goal? The D is to determine your attitudes, your mindsets, and your behaviors. Maybe habits fit in there. And U is to uncover the predicted challenges and barriers. And P is to perform, move forward, act as if, and just move on like you got everything you need and just keep pushing on it. And then enjoy your race. You set a goal and work with your coach beforehand with a race plan to say, you know, here's moments where you might feel tired. Make sure you look around and take in the scenery. Make sure you recognize that when you feel a little bit of exhaustion, also engage in the confidence that you have that you've done what you need to do to prepare for that moment and understand that your experience with having nutrition out there on the bike ride or out on the run can change how you feel in about 5 minutes. So anybody can do anything hard for 5 minutes and then, you know, your nutrition's kicked back in and you feel a little bit more energized.

So.

It gains confidence, it gains good feelings, and at the end of the day, you are proud of what you've done and you can brag to other people if you want to, and other people will be proud of your accomplishments too. End of podcast. I really want this podcast to end.

Ryan, I'm so proud of you.

I'm still so nervous.

Well, Ryan, we appreciate you coming on and, uh, you covered your nervousness. Well, are you sure that was a glass of water or was that a beer?

It's clear.

I'm just kidding. So I think it would be really cool if we had this in sort of like a PDF form and maybe people can download and if they want to sort of play with it on their own, I find the power in doing this with some somebody else who is especially well-versed, like a counselor or a psychologist or somebody who's particularly well-versed in motivational interviewing to be able to like extract more information from you with the right questions. But that doesn't mean that you can't do it on your own. Would you agree?

Absolutely.

Cool. All right, Coach Ryan, nice job. So proud of you.

It's getting—

and everybody out there, have an awesome 2023, and we will catch you next time.

Bye.

Thanks for listening to the Find Your Edge podcast. If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so you never miss an episode. And if you're interested in learning more about our endurance coaching, sports and wellness nutrition, metabolic and sweat testing, triathlon training team, or our triathlon training library, Be sure to check us out at theenduranceedge.com and don't forget to follow us on social media at The Endurance Edge. Thanks again. And we'll catch you next time.