Two Triathletes Try SwimRun (and why you should too!) Ep 22

Yes, it's something that, you know, you'll see a lot of people kind of warn about, you know, saying, hey, if you're about to do your first triathlon, you should be aware that you might feel a little dizzy when you get out of the swim. That's not something I'd ever actually experienced in a triathlon. I don't know if it was something about how cold the water was or what it was, but there was no way that either of us were going to pass a field sobriety test.

Welcome to the Find Your Edge podcast. Get ready to dive into all things training, nutrition, recovery, and more. Whether you're a new or experienced endurance athlete, a weekend warrior, or someone who just wants to improve your health and fitness, this podcast is for you. I'm Kris Newport, founder, head coach, registered dietitian, exercise physiologist, and certified personal trainer with the Endurance Edge and the Fueling Edge. With more than 20 years experience in the fitness industry, 18 years in multi-sport, and over 10 years as a sports nutritionist, I'm speaking with athletes and experts about about key actionable steps you can take to reach and sustain peak performance and health. Let's do it. Welcome back to the Find Your Edge podcast. I am your host, Kristen Newport, and I am here today to talk to one of our athletes and weird myself too, because we just did a really cool race and I thought everybody needed to know about it. So Josh, you started it. You started this whole process.

Oh, it really started years ago, but, uh, you weren't involved. I read about it. I read about swimrun in triathlete a couple of years ago. And then when I saw one in North Carolina, I just said, you know, why not give it a try? So I started asking around who would be interested in doing it.

And this was, I think it was November, wasn't it? 2020.

Sometime around then. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, and I remember you putting that out there on Facebook and I was like, um, me? So the dream team was born. Do you know the background on SwimRun?

4 drunk Swedes came up with it at a bar one night.

So I feel like we fit that profile really well or not at all, but that's okay. So had you been thinking about this for a while or was it just that you saw a race come up and were thinking about it?

Well, like I said, when I first read about it a couple of years ago, I was kind of intrigued, but never really didn't put too much thought into it until I saw a race local. I was like, okay, maybe this is a real possibility.

Yeah. And you have to have a partner.

Yes. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Swimrun is entirely a partner event. Yeah.

So, uh, sorry, all you triathletes or people who like to do individual visual sports, you have to have somebody with you to do this, which I feel like it makes it more fun, but I also have a background in team sports. So tell us about Josh, tell us about your background in endurance sports.

I've been competing in triathlons for about 15 years now or so. I did a couple of running events before then quickly realized I really can't run very well at all. Maybe I can take the edge off of that if I throw swimming and biking in on the mix. And that seemed to help. So I've been stuck with that for a good long while. I took a couple of years off in the middle, but, uh, otherwise pretty consistent. I think I've done 8 iron distance races now and like a total of 60 or 70 triathlons all in.

So definitely an experienced multi-sport athlete. How do you feel like you would have done had you not done any multi-sport events? Coming into swimrun?

I would have been terrified and not actually attempted it. No, um, like, I, I remember my very first triathlon. It was down not too far from Pinehurst. It was a sprint distance event, doesn't exist anymore, but it only had a 600-yard swim. But I— it was the first open water swim I ever did. I didn't train for it at all, and I just remember looking at the course thinking This looks huge. I don't know how I'm going to get through this whole thing. People around me hearing me say this were kind of laughing.

It's like, it's 600 yards, but that's a big deal to a new athlete who's never done open water swimming. I felt the same way when I did my first race in open water, I was similarly terrified.

Oh, did you actually train in open water beforehand?

That's a good question. Cause it was also a long time ago, possibly because we did, um, I did my first race. With team and training. So their big thing was like group triathlon training. We definitely trained in the pool.

Right.

But I remember us doing a quote unquote training race for our actual race. So we did White Lake as a training race leading up to also a race that doesn't exist anymore out in Charlotte. So, but that was, that was a big deal. So What were the distances of this particular swim-run for comparison of your sprint 600 yards that terrified you?

There were 8 run segments, 7 swim segments. All in, it was about 2.7 miles of swimming and right around 10 miles of running. The individual segments were as short as about 50 meters. Like the last swim segment, I think we probably could have walked if we wanted to. And there were some similarly short run segments with one long run segment in the middle of about 5 miles.

And that was the short course.

Yeah, that was a short course race. There was a long course, uh, out there as well.

I think that tacked on like an extra mile swim and like maybe 4 or 5 miles of running. Does that sound right?

Something like that. Yeah. Like it's the same course up until near the end of the long run. Where we turned and went into the water and they kept running for another couple of miles and had a couple other swim segments to get back where it rejoined before the last long swim segment. And that one swim segment was about a mile long.

Yeah.

And I know you did not really enjoy that one.

I have no idea what you're talking about. No, we definitely have to touch on that last little swim section. That's, that was the closest I got to like wanting to punch you in the face. The rest of the time it was totally fine, but we'll get to that. So stay tuned. So there were two segments and this was at the end of April in 2021. So just FYI for all of you. Um, so tell us what the weather conditions were, Josh, on race morning.

On race morning, you know, getting ready, it was, uh, it was perfectly fine if you were going to go out for a run.

Yeah.

It was nice and cool, not too cold. You know, the wetsuits kept us warm. So it really wasn't too cold for running.

I think it was 46 at the start, if I remember right.

Yeah. Something in that range. And the air temperature really didn't get much higher than that all day. It was cloudy and kind of rainy. The rain didn't get too hard, although some of the long course athletes did get some pretty heavy rain, but we never really got it too bad. Either that or it hit while we were swimming and we didn't notice. One of the two.

Yeah.

But yeah, then they announced the water temperature. They did a couple of readings. It ranged from 58 to 62.

It what? Which for all of you out there who know or may not know water temperature, it's cold.

So it's a good 20 to 8 to 16 degrees below the threshold at which USAT will let you wear a wetsuit.

Yes. And a typical pool, if it's, if it's managed and generally indoors, is somewhere around 80 to 82. So just for some comparison's sake. Okay. So the water was a little chilly. The air was chilly. In preparation for the race, we did, we, there was some gear stuff. So let's talk about that. You made a good list beforehand, but one thing that's not on here. Oh yeah, no, it is. Talk about your sunglasses first.

I wear prescription glasses. I do not have contacts. I don't have LASIK or anything else. And my vision is. Pretty awful. About a year ago, I switched to prescription goggles and they have helped my open water swimming tremendously. But you can see, I managed to get by without them for 14 years.

Not too bad.

But, uh, going into swimrun, this added a new complication because I needed to have both my goggles and, uh, some form of prescription eyewear that I could wear during running. My first My first thought was I might be able to just wear my prescription goggles all the way through. So I did a test run with that and it took about a quarter mile for them to just completely fog up and be unusable while running. So that plan didn't last long. So I started looking into trying to figure out how I can carry a pair of glasses with me while swimming. And I'd also have to carry my goggles while running, but that's a much easier problem. Eventually I settled on Drilling a couple holes in the arms of my sunglasses, attaching an old goggle strap, and essentially turning them into a pair of goggles. And so at the many transitions, I would just have to switch. So I'd have either the goggles or sunglasses around my neck and the other ones would be up on top of my head. And I just have to keep switching back and forth, except for some of the, one of the really short runs, I just left the goggles on for that one.

So all of you triathletes out there. And also my husband was confused about this. So there is no transition area, just to be very clear on that. You, what you start wearing from the, like what you are in from the start, you have to take with you the entire time. It's all has to be on your person. So I remember like the day before the race and my husband and I took the kids and the dogs and we went camping. And I remember him being like, well, why don't you just leave your sunglasses in transition? I was like, have you been paying attention at all? Cause you rigged up my sunglasses too, to be able to do the same thing, but it just ended up being overcast that day. So I opted to not have them. So you had something around your neck the whole time. Did that bother you?

Not at all. I barely even noticed it. I had done a practice swim with the sunglasses around my neck just to make sure that everything would be okay. And, and that was so I. You know, there is the classic rule of nothing new on race day, which we kind of followed, but didn't quite completely. Um, and that led to its own issues, but I knew the glasses were going to be an issue and I had absolutely had to test those out.

Yeah. All right. So we got the sunglasses slash glasses issue. Let's do wetsuits. So that is a requirement for the races. You actually bought like a whole new wetsuit.

Yeah. So I now have 3 wetsuits. I have 2 triathlon wetsuits and then I have the swimrun-specific wetsuit. So unlike a triathlon wetsuit, it's got multiple pockets. It's got loops to attach a tether, which obviously we're going to have to get to the tether. The legs are short and it has full sleeves, but it is specifically a swimrun-designed wetsuit.

Did you mention the zipper in the front?

Oh yes. Uh, the zippers in the front, unlike the triathlon wetsuits with zippers in the back, because It can get warm while running in it. So people will frequently unzip it and then rezip it throughout the race. And we did a test run in the wetsuit, uh, out at Umstead Park and got a few strange looks from that one, but you know, that's their problem.

I will have to say, I left you in the dust on that one. We were both going to test out our wetsuits running and I showed up without it and you were wearing yours. But you know, it's all right. You were hot that day though.

Yeah, it was probably about 70 degrees that day. And so that was very warm running in that thing in our test run during the race. It was fine since it was so much cooler.

Yeah. So I ran in my— I have a shorty for triathlon, which I got sick of legs and having to rip those things off. So I just use that. Now I definitely could have used sleeves because I was cold. So it was a sleeveless shorty and I could have used sleeves. It would have been nice to have a pocket. You were kind of my race buddy and my Sherpa because you carried my sleeve of race nutrition, which I had to remind you of after you got home. Hey, don't forget to take those out. They might get kind of, kind of gross. So I definitely, we are going to actually do this again. I'm definitely going to invest in some sleeves. Okay. So wetsuits. What else? I know you mentioned paddles and buoys. I decided I did not want paddles or buoys. Tell them about your paddles.

We had done, uh, one test swim where I was wearing my shoes and that creates a lot of drag, both just from having your legs lower and just the drag on the shoes themselves. So I thought, uh, having the paddles would be helpful just to kind of overcome all that drag. Especially considering that we had decided that I would be leading the entire swim, so I wasn't going to get much of a draft effect on that.

We'll get to that here in a minute.

I've never really enjoyed swimming with the pull buoy. So a lot of the competitors that we saw, they had pull buoys rigged up with cords so that they would just remain tied to their leg the entire time and they didn't have to worry about actually holding it. But I didn't want to try that, so I just went with the paddles. Then it did get cumbersome having them on the run segments, particularly when we were like clamoring out of the water and some muddy areas and trying to not lose them. They got pretty coated in mud by the end of it. So I think I'm going to leave the paddles at home for the next one.

And then shoes. Let's talk about that because It's really weird to swim in your shoes.

Yes, it is.

Just a touch of drag, but you had a unique shoe situation. So I just ended up, uh, I was going to try to do more of a minimalist shoe. Uh, so it would be a little bit easier to swim in, but I just got, I just got so used to running and I've got a pair of Ultras. And I love them. So I just said, you know what, I'm going for it. So I had a pair of socks and my Altra shoes on. You, on the other hand, got specific swimrun shoes and neglected to wear socks.

I was wearing socks. I just was not wearing tall enough socks.

Oh, tall enough socks.

Okay.

So, and you're, it's 4 weeks after race day.

Tomorrow will be 4 weeks. Yeah.

And you're still paying for that injury. So tell us about that.

Yes. So bought the swimrun-specific wetsuit and also bought the swimrun-specific shoes because I'm kind of a gear collector. So these shoes have a built-in neoprene gaiter, and I had done several test runs in the shoes out at Omstead. And one was, I think the longest one was 8 miles. And while I did have issues with them being minimalist shoes and just having a very stiff upper, I didn't have any problems with the gaiter. So I just kind of ignored that, but I never actually ran in them with them wet. So that was a big part of the don't try anything new on race day. You really need to do race day simulation with your gear. It's not enough to actually, to just use the gear. You really need to, um, get a proper simulation. So early in the race, it was fine. Everything was good. Towards the end of the long run in the middle, you know, my right ankle starts hurting. After we get out of the water the last time, we've got 3 more miles of running. My right ankle is hurting a lot and my left ankle starts hurting a little bit. It didn't get as bad. So we're approaching the finish line. We see another team in front of us. You're pushing, saying, oh, come on, let's catch them. And I'm just, I was not having it, which was the exact opposite of some of the earlier runs where I was pushing the pace and I was like, come on, it's a race. Let's go. Um, but we do need to talk more about pacing later. But after the race, I, you know, I looked down to see just how badly I had been chafing.

You didn't complain. I don't remember you complaining about Anything hurting until that very last little segment.

Well, even during, even then I was just complaining about visibility. I didn't actually mention my ankles to you till after the race. And I saw just how much they were bleeding. Uh, so my left ankle is mostly healed and right ankle is still pretty badly torn up. Yeah. And it didn't help that I fell yesterday when running in Olmsted again, you know, just add some more cuts and bruises to everything.

Yeah, that's how we roll. I did. I know a lot of people were mentioning to me who had never done this sport before. They're like, you ran in your wetsuit? Like, yes. They're like, oh, that must be terrible chafing. I did not experience anything like that. Of course, I definitely had my neck all lubed up and my shoulders all lubed up, but it sounds like most of your issues were in your shoes too. Did you have any issues with your wetsuit?

No, uh, not during the race. I did during the training run, um, in that Like all the wetsuits I had worn before, I had chafing on the back of my neck has always been an issue for me. But I found out that chafing on the front of my neck was also an issue in this wetsuit. So I just made sure before the race to make sure I lubricated my entire neck, but I didn't have any issues with the wetsuit anywhere else besides that.

Yeah. So we can check that box, thankfully. All right. So let's Talk about pacing. Seeing that I coach you, I also know what your paces are, which is one of the reasons why I also knew that if I volunteered for the race, I wouldn't have an issue keeping up or vice versa. Although training for a pool swim during COVID has been challenging because you can generally only get like a 30 or 45 minute slot to try to train for a 2.7 mile swim. Is interesting. And then of course it's cold in April and March, but we did get in the open water beforehand. So yeah, we definitely need to talk about our swim simulation in the open water with, because we're also wearing a tether. You cannot be in this particular race. It was no more than 10 meters apart.

Right. We chose to wear a 10-foot tether while swimming and for the really short runs, we took it off for the longer run segments.

So yeah. What, what do you want to say about pacing?

Well, I was just going to talk about, you know, level of effort and kind of going after the pace. So because this was such a new event for both of us, like we really had to hold back and, you know, make sure that we would be able to comfortably finish. Like at the end, when we were, you know, a mile or two away, you were trying to push the pace, but up until then we were really very cautious with our pacing as compared to, say, White Lake, which I did the following weekend, where it's a very known quantity and I was able to— I knew exactly what pace I needed to hit from the starting gun all the way to the end. And that was a much higher level of effort because it was a known quantity, whereas this was just— Yeah, we had to be very conservative. For the next one, we'll probably be able to be a bit more aggressive in our pacing.

Although the, the next race is going to be interesting from more of like a terrain perspective and a little less swimming, which I'm not particularly sad about, but—

Well, in a sense, it's a lot less swimming because while it's, it's about 2 miles of swimming total, the biggest swim segment is downstream in a river. So it's really going to be more like. A mile of swimming.

Amen. Maybe this time I'll— oh, I was going to say maybe this time I'll swim next to you. No, that, that was, that was a horrible mistake. So let's go there. We tested our open water swimming. And when we first put the tether on, I tried swimming next to you. And that was very terrible because I didn't really think that the tether being like side to side, like, well, you can't stroke. On one arm. So that took me a little bit of getting used to, and then I just ended up falling right behind you, which ended up working great. I tell you what, drafting, A, and B, having this little green line to follow is pretty awesome. So you— we decided then, and you were very diplomatic in the way that you told me that I should be in the back. We decided then that I was going to draft for all the swims. And I feel like that worked out fine. So you, you had the job of, uh, sighting, of figuring out which way we were going.

So, well, our test swim wasn't really a fair test because that was your test swim wearing shoes. Whereas I had worn my shoes the previous week and wasn't interested in doing that again. So I, I did have a significant advantage so that there was a lot more pulling and dragging, uh, during our test swim than there was during the race. Like the tension on the, on the tether was a lot less during the race than it was in our test swim.

Yeah. So I pulled out some miracles in those couple of weeks to be able to prepare for that. But from a tethering perspective, that was also an opportunity to, cause I don't have any hooks on my wetsuit and you do. So we had to wear like a belt and we had some issues with that, like getting overly loose, or like, where does it sit? Where I was going to maybe like sew one into my wetsuit. But anyway, we settled on that. And the very first time we got in the water, because the first run was like a little bit less than a mile.

About that. Yeah.

And then we went to get in the water. So we had to get all, you know, prepped, ready to go. I can tell you what my first sense of hitting the water was, but what was your first? Thought when you got in the water? And no F-bombs.

I thought it was a little chilly, and I'm not being diplomatic in my language. I honestly didn't think it was as terrible as you seem to think it was. I—

my face hit the water and I was like, oh my word, it's so cold. So I had a lot of mantras in my head about Feeling hot, hot, hot. I had all kinds of stuff going in my head to try to convince myself like, it is not cold. It is not cold. But then we finished that. So that was a relatively long segment.

I think that was about 1,000 meters.

Okay. Yeah.

For the first swim.

Yeah. And then, um, something happened when we got out of the water. Do you want to describe that?

Yes. It's something that, you know, you'll see a lot of people kind of warn about, you know, saying, hey, if you're about to do your first triathlon, you you should be aware that you might feel a little dizzy when you get out of the swim. That's not something I'd ever actually experienced in a triathlon, but I don't know if it was something about how cold the water was or what it was, but there was no way that either of us were going to pass a field sobriety test when we got out of the water. We, we could barely stand up for what, 3, 4 minutes?

Yeah, it was pretty bizarre. Just like literally like side to side, like, oh my gosh, I cannot stand up straight. I'm not sure how we're going to continue moving, but there was an aid station right there.

Right.

I think it helped to get a little bit of sports drink in us and then it wore off relatively quickly, but it was definitely a couple of minutes of being like out of sorts. That was bananas. So speaking of, uh, sports drinks, nutrition.

Yes. Yeah. Unlike a triathlon where you can bring your own, all your own nutrition, you really are completely dependent on the race organizers for all your nutrition. Cause you can't bring anything to drink unless you're carrying a water bottle through the swims. And that would just be crazy. We did carry a little bit of food, but not much. It's just because of the race logistics. And because there's no transition areas, you have to do with whatever they're giving you. Mostly worked out.

Yeah, I think so. Plus it also was in our benefit because it was colder and, you know, not having to deal with some of the heat and excess sweating. And, but yeah, luckily they had things that were tolerable, certainly on my end. So I feel like that mostly worked out. So having considered all of that experience, obviously we're going to do it again, but other than the shoes, And for me, the wetsuit, anything you would have done differently?

Not really. I did mention that, you know, for the next one, I'm not bringing the paddles, but I think I still would have kept the paddles for this race just because of the format and the distances. Whereas it'll— the paddles will be more of a hindrance on the next one because there's so much more running and less swimming and rock climbing, which will be a new adventure for both of us.

Yes, I am very excited about that, but no shocker there. To tie it up, I think we do need to make our way back to when I nearly punched you in the face. And that was after that very last swim segment. And I was so cold, like my fingers were blue until we got to the 5-mile run segment. It was probably not until halfway or even 3/4 of the way till I could like feel the ends of my fingertips again. And my toes were pretty much numb the entire time. But by that last swim segment, I was like shivering. And I remember you were like, hang on, I got to stop. And I was like, oh my God, if we don't move, I might die. Yeah.

I'm very sorry about that. I wrapped the tether around me, uh, and hooked it up as quickly as I could and started running. And then I realized I had hooked in the wrong spot and it was about to fall down and wrap around my ankles. I had to redo it and it was like, and I could see how miserable you were. And I was just rushing through that. You survived.

That was like the only time we had spectators too.

Right.

Oh, look, all these people to see me being like, why aren't we moving?

You didn't have to have any of your toes amputated after the race. So I consider this a success.

I totally agree. I totally agree. Um, I think my husband was shocked. He was like, you have like the tightest, like the smallest tolerance for cold. And I'm pretty impressed with myself actually. I will have to say so to the point where we signed up for the next race, like within a week.

Oh, it was 2 days later. Cause, uh, for the next race, we actually have to apply, you know, prove that we know what we're doing. They're not letting just anyone sign up. So it was. Yeah. The next day we had a group swim with some of your other clients. And then I think it was, yeah. So it was the next day that I put in the application and then like 2 days later we got approved and signed up.

So we're doing all this madness again. Any recommendations or any suggestions you would have for anybody who's thinking about doing this sport, whether they're a multi-sport athlete or not? Because I know I certainly would encourage anybody to try a multi-sport first before doing this, but I thought it was an adventure.

Race simulation for all of your gear, every little bit of it. That's my biggest piece of advice.

All right. Awesome. Well, thank you everybody for listening. Josh, thanks for joining us.

Thank you.

We will catch you on the next episode of the Find Your Edge podcast.