What Happens When You Mail 1,000 Offers? (Live Data Breakdown)

1.

I once dined on steak with a candle's soft glow, but the bill left my savings despairingly low. Now wisdom has taught me, so simple, so grand, Eat baloney, buy land. Oh, eat baloney, buy land. Trade the fork for the deed in your hand. Skip the filling, let the sandwiches stand. Your fortune will grow when you buy your own land. Fellas. We are live, and tonight's gonna be different. No tactics, no spreadsheets, no county reviews. Tonight you're gonna get the real stories behind the guys you see here every week, because people see land investors on the other side of success, but they rarely hear about the fear, the doubt, the ugly first deals, the late nights, the spouses asking questions. The moments where quitting honestly sounded reasonable. So tonight I'm putting the 3 Nightcap guys— dude buddy Scott Bossman, the Zen Master Mike Zano, and John Eat Is Enough Handsome Rob— on the hot seat. The stories behind the stories, the moments that changed everything, and what this business actually gave them besides money. Let's crack a nightcap. Ah, cheers.

Cheers.

Did you notice that we all already got a shout out from Don Thrasher? The universal shout out.

Who got it already?

All of us. Wow.

That's like, that's like a group hug, right?

It is. He doesn't play favorites, that guy.

He doesn't play favorites. I love it. Group hug to Don Thrasher.

Bring it in.

All right, you guys, we got a lot of questions to go through. So I'm gonna start with John, my brother. What did your average Tuesday look like before land?

Man, my average Tuesday. So at that point, my oldest was 1 and a half, or maybe 1. He was young, he was little. And I would get up in the morning, he was usually asleep, and then I would drive to the office and I would work for— I mean, it was just kind of a standard workday. And then I would come home, have dinner with the family, and then he would go to bed after that. And so I'd get about 30 minutes a day with him. And so, and didn't like that. And so, you know, Val and I, we got our evenings together and our mornings together and stuff. And ultimately, for us, we just hit a point where, you know, just didn't like that. Just wanted more time with my, with my kids. I wanted to give myself to them. And so that was kind of the motivator for us getting into real estate investing in general, right? And so the goal was, was to create some level of time freedom. So did I answer the question?

You answered the question. I'm, I'm gonna ask a different question to the Zen master, Mike Zaino. Breathe in the mailing, breathe out the marketing.

Warming up to that question, but now I got another one.

All right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, we could talk about your average Tuesday, but I, I want to know, what were you stressed out about back then before you started land investing? Oh, what stressed you out?

Just paying the bills. Um, just, you know, I was going into debt. I'd gone through a divorce. I was working at the fire department. Um, and, you know, I just, just trying to pay the bills, just trying to, you know, I had this great idea that I would put everything on a card and, and then I would pay the card off at the end of the month each month. That was a great idea. And then you realize how much you spend, or you didn't realize, but then you realize real quick, and then it just keeps compounding and compounding, and the balance keeps growing, and it's just, uh, a bit frightening. So then I'm trying, you know, so yeah, that, that's, uh, does that answer it? Yeah, I think that's, uh, yeah, I don't want to go back there. That's kind of dark, Mark. Thanks, uh, taking me right—

No, no, I, I mean, I just had a flashback on the nightcap.

Wow.

Can I ask a follow-up question? What scared you the most about making a change?

I just didn't know if I could actually be successful. I think I talked about this sometimes with people that success sometimes, Mark, it just seemed like it was for the other people. It really did. And I was always kind of embarrassed to say that. But I think I've learned by talking to so many people over the years now that that's kind of common, right? They feel like it's It's for somebody else. So yeah, I mean, even though I, you know, my best friend Jeff was one of your very first students and I knew he was succeeding, but still, you know, maybe he just had the knack. Maybe he had something special. I knew that the model was all, but could I make it work? It's scary, right? It is.

No, I totally get it. Yeah. And I think at some point everybody feels this sort of imposter syndrome. No matter where you are in life.

Yeah, for sure.

But, uh, dude, buddy, good question for you.

Uh-oh.

Uh, did you know something needed to change before you got into land investing, or did life force the change?

I knew for, uh, years prior to starting this that something needed to change. I just didn't know how to do it. Didn't know what the heck to do. Didn't know how to do it, but I knew something needed to change because, like, I was in pain. I, I was in the rat race. I was, I was, you know, commuting to and from work and working 10-hour days and didn't have time with my family, didn't have time with my boys, and didn't have time for myself. Man, I mean, I was the lowest person on the totem pole, right? I couldn't take care of myself. So, and, and yeah, you know, like Mike, you wouldn't think that as a physical therapist, things would be paycheck to paycheck, but they kind of were with a big family. And it was stressful, stressful waiting on the payday every 2 weeks and then seeing the money just fly away so quick. So I knew something needed to change. for a long time prior to doing this. And I took a few steps here and there, like I did a couple side hustles, but they weren't scalable. So like, I like to do, I'm a very intermediate woodworker. So like I would spend a few hours doing these woodworking projects and then I would sell them on Etsy, right? Just to like make some more dollars to help the family. And come to find out, you know, that's just not scalable. So like, what can I do to buy my time back? And that's when I really started getting into the whole Robert Kiyosaki world and different entrepreneurship books and that type of thing. I thought about, you know, growing my own physical therapy business. I thought about doing that at a time. Before the forefront of telehealth, I had this whole business plan about how I was going to be a telehealth PT. And that just never came to fruition. So, uh, I knew something needed to change. I just didn't know how it was going to happen. And I think when you showed up in my life, Mark, there was just kind of— it just kind of fell into place. Like, you know what, I think this is it. Like, I can do this on my laptop. I can do it early in the morning. I can do it late at night. And it doesn't cannibalize um, my time as much as some of these other things. So that's what I'm going to do.

I love it. Okay, so I'm going back to you now. So we're gonna round robin it. So, okay, everybody, next question. Um, what was the hardest thing to explain to Erin, your wife, family, friends? I know you have a very scholastic, uh, you know, family. Where if you don't have a PhD, they kind of don't even talk to you at like family reunions. Oh, you only have your master's? Well, you'll get there, son.

You're only a— you're only a judge on the Nebraska State Supreme Court. I mean, you know, yeah.

So it's very academic family.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was—

I'm gonna do this side business.

Yeah, no, it was interesting. Uh, well, Erin was the most supportive. She's like, okay, I like the sound of that. And, uh, so, so she was on my side from, from the first night I came home. I remember standing in the kitchen telling her, I think I found what we're gonna do. And she listened and took it in. She's like, interesting. And she was questioning, but she was open to it. And then when, as As the months progressed and I got a little bit further and further into land investing and I told my folks about it, I mean, they're, yeah, they're like all speechless. Like they don't know, they didn't know what the heck to think. Like, you know, Scott, you're just like, you know, you're a healthcare guy and like you don't have any ounce of business in you. So like, what are you doing? I think they were nervous for me. I think they thought I was getting into some scam. I think they thought I was getting into some MLM ploy or something like that, and they were concerned about my, uh, my financial well-being and whether or not I was putting my family at risk. So the first number of years— and I still joke to people today, my, my mom is still nervous that I quit my job 6 years ago— um, that, uh, it just, it has taken a long time to just kind of show those people, hey, this is, this is fruitful and it's supporting my family. And, uh, and now they understand it and they, they support it. But it's definitely something that's a little nerve-wracking when you're first starting this, if you, uh, you know, because it's just not, it's not a normal thing, land investing.

Yeah, yeah. I'm looking at some of the comments here. Uh, Brad Kelly's like, that's my family. He's, he's, he's your cousin from another mother. Yeah. Um, so Zen Master.

Yes.

Did you ever feel like you thought people would think you're crazy? Especially coming from your background? Like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this land investing thing.

Oh, yeah. I did not talk about it. I didn't even I didn't know how to present it to people, and I was just worried that they were gonna just, you know, come from the generation prior to ours, you know, just very traditional— go to college, get out, get a job. Um, just not a lot of, I would say, entrepreneurial type, um, adventuresome type people, right? And, uh, so yeah, I, I think that I was worried people would think this is like, like Scott said, some sort of Internet scam. I mean, I had, I mean, I had the advantage of someone that I knew that had done this, but was doing this, but still, to my family, they didn't know anything. And yeah, it was very nerve-wracking to sort of talk about something, particularly when you don't know, again, that am I going to succeed? Am I going to do well? And then you want to, you're afraid if you put yourself out there and things don't go well, well, you just expose yourself, right? And And so I think that's another human thing as well. Um, you know, there was a shift at some point. I always talk about this, Mark, where I don't know when, a few years in, where it's like, man, just hit me that I am a land investor, you know? And then I had full confidence to talk about it. And then it was kind of funny, at that point I didn't want to talk about it because I just felt bad telling people all the money I'm making, you know? It's kind of changed for another reason. At first I didn't want to talk about it because I thought they'd think I was crazy. Then I stopped making a lot of money. And I'll tell you, people really don't want to hear about all the money you're making, right? That's just not a cool topic to bring up. But hey guys, I made another deal today. Like, it's just, you know, not my personality anyways. But I think that's what I love about this community too, is that, you know, and particularly you, Mark, on the calls we have, you always— let's celebrate some wins. And it felt good to be able to talk about it. But yeah, so crazy at first. I didn't tell anybody. But then I stopped making money and I'm like, well, I really can't tell anybody now because that's gonna sound like I'm gloating.

Yeah, you know, it's funny because like we don't really talk about the money piece of it, and I think it's because, uh, you know, I write about this in Dirt Rich, just what I experienced, that the more money I made, it really didn't make me any happier, right? And so it's like and no one even cares, right? I think people care like, oh, are these guys successful? They making money? Like, I think they care enough about like, are you guys doing well enough? But like, my favorite John Burnett story isn't about how much money he made. He's like, I'm spending 75% more time with my kids, right, than I did before land investing. And I think ultimately the money isn't what we care about. It's like, oh yeah, I'm making $50,000 a month. and passive income. It's, no, no, I'm doing exactly what I want to do in my life. I'm spending time with my family, spending time with my friends. I'm spending even more time, uh, you know, giving back to my community. I'm spending even more time, uh, traveling. And, and, you know, that I think is, is what we all want, is that sort of that lazy morning of having coffee with our spouse and not having to be somewhere at a certain time. And and that freedom and that lack of stress. Like, no one's really impressed with like how much money any of us make at all. I mean, but if you're coming in new, you want to know, well, are these guys successful? But other than like that, they— are they free?

Good point, Mark. I feel like the more you talk about that, I realize that, you know, the people that I look up to, I don't know how much money they make and I don't really care. I just know they have a lifestyle that I think is pretty awesome, right? And so it's the way that they carry themselves, the way that they engage with their family and their loved ones, the way they're present for everybody, right? It's so funny, you're right, it doesn't really have a number attached to it. I mean, we all have numbers we have to make in our life, but I don't think it's actually that crazy. I think you've talked about there's a number that beyond that it's really just not necessary, right? There's a certain number that brings comfort, and like you talk about your fixed expenses being covered by your passive income. Once you hit that point, it's like, I don't know, it's like not even about the money. You're right, it's really interesting. It is about the money, of course the money is a— but still, we don't— it's about the way people interact and carry themselves that really shines. I think that's really interesting, and I think it's a great point.

Yeah, it's funny, like, it's— I mean, ultimately it's all about time. Like, I remember, like, when I semi-retired, I was not wealthy. Like, I wasn't making like gobs and gobs of money, but that point at which your income exceeds your fixed expenses, right? And so I didn't have this lavish lifestyle, but I had so much time, you know, and it's, it's such a big asset. And it was— I remember like one of the things back when, uh, back when you were doing the podcast, Mark, and, and doing the tip of the week, one of the things that was Um, was a really, uh, I don't know, it made an impact on me. It was one of the tips of the week was how to save money on airfare. And I was like, these guys are like living a normal lifestyle. They're not talking about their private jets or their pools or anything like that. It's, uh, the goal is just time. It's having that— it's reaching that point where your income exceeds your expenses. And you can focus on what you want to focus on.

Yeah, no, 100%. So, so, John, getting back to that, um, what was harder mentally for you than you expected when you were getting into land investing?

I think, like, for me, every individual step was like a hurdle that I had to get over. Like, I was just thinking about this the other day. I remember sending out my first mailers and standing by the post office box with a stack of mail in my hand and then dropping it into the slot, shutting it. And I'm like, all right, bear out, right? And it's— and feeling that pit in my gut, right? Like when you're taking that initial step. And then each individual step after that, like you doing it for the first time, I think was the hardest thing.

Right?

Somebody gets your mail and they— like, we got a counteroffer to one of our letters, and Val and I had been waiting for the mail to hit. Other people that had started flight school around the same time, their mail had hit. And so we're like, did we do something wrong? Did our mail not go through? And then we got a counteroffer back. And we were so excited, we almost had an aneurysm, right? Like, we were just, this is crazy. We like reached out to our coach. We need to talk to you right now. It's a matter of life and death. We just got a counteroffer. And he hopped on the phone with us and looked at the property and he's like, yeah, I wouldn't do this deal. It's not that great. You just wait. There's better ones coming. And then we did. And then they came, right? But then Same thing. Like, there's, there's those other hurdles, right? Like, all of a sudden I have to get on the phone with the seller and talk to them about their property. And that's, that's hard. And then you do it and it's not as hard as you anticipated and it gets easier and easier. And then you're posting ads for your properties. So each individual step was a hurdle to get through. And then as I did that, it then became that much easier the next time and the next time and the next time. next time. So for me, it was the first time of everything was the hardest thing.

Well, so back to you, John, and then we'll go back around. Yeah. When did land investing, you know, first feel real? Was it the first deal? Was it the 10th deal? Like, when, when did you and Val be like, hey, I think I'm gonna quit my job.

I think like, so we had a point, um, I think there were, there were probably multiple points where it felt more and more real. Um, one point was we were living in Jackson Hole at the time, uh, in Wyoming. And for those of you who don't know Jackson Hole, it's very expensive. Like our first last deposit at the place where we were living there that we were renting was more than a full year of rent plus deposit at the place we'd moved away from in Idaho. So it was like, it was very high expenses. I was making more than twice as much as I had at the software company I had left when we moved, but I was saving less. And so we had this point where we were just looking at the numbers and we were like, what are we doing? My family's in Idaho. We love Idaho. Why don't we just move, lower our expenses, and let's just make a go of this. And so that was, uh, we made that decision and, and that was definitely a like, we're going all in moment where it was very, very real. Um, I think that the doing a deal, right, actually buying a property and then selling that same property, when you see that click, you're like, okay, I can do this. That was very, that was a moment for us. And then the other was just seeing other people, um, accept the fact that this works, I think, was, was a big one. You, you get past that incredulity when, when people see you having success.

I love it. All right, Zen Master, describe your first deal like it was yesterday.

Oh, so I had, uh, bought a property, a small property, it was in Nevada. And I found someone on Craigslist to go put a, um, a sign on it. Uh, you know, it was, you know, these properties are all rural, but it wasn't too far away. I thought maybe a sign might help. And so the person called me up and said, uh, hey, listen, there's a woman out here, said she lives nearby and she wants to know how much you're selling the property for. And I think I had paid maybe $800, maybe $1,000, something like that. And I Had at this point not even thought about what I would even price it. I don't even know what it was worth. Like, I just— I mean, I knew, of course, kind of, but I hadn't put up— I was just like, hey, let's just— I was just fumbling through the steps here. And so I said, hey, uh, I don't know, tell her like $3,000. And, and it came back, yeah, she'll take it. And I was like, what? Okay, great. Got on information and she bought that property from me and I made a crazy return. It was just like It was just surreal, you know. Um, and I'm wondering like how much I really could have got for that property, but it doesn't matter. It was a great return. I took $1,000 and basically tripled it. And like, where else could I do that? They took $2,000 as the profit, right? So like how many overtime shifts that would have been? That would have been several 24-hour overtime shifts, 24 hours away from my family. several times to recoup that type of take-home capital. And I had just done that in like not with nothing. It was crazy. It was amazing. It was— I tell people this business is addictive, right? You know, if you like to scratch tickets, well, you're gonna love this. The odds are way better.

Yeah, yeah, it's so true. It's so true, dude. Buddy, did you believe this was repeatable? Like, everybody, you know, is like, oh yeah, I can do a deal. But when did you believe this was actually repeatable?

I hoped it would be repeatable. Um, you know, I think that, um, you know, Mike's right, like the first deal, it's just, it's just great to get that done and like see that you can do it. And, um, you know, I had a similar deal, I turned $700 into $2,800. And You know, to bring in $2,000 as a physical therapist, that's a lot of work, whereas this was a couple hours of work. And I'll never forget, Mark, I posted that win in the Facebook group and you put in the chat, it's time to rinse and repeat. Well, I'm— and I'm like, I was kind of hurt a little bit. I'm like, what, there's no celebration? Like, you're not going to celebrate my win here, Mark Podolsky? You're just going to tell me to rinse and repeat? But I love that you tell everyone that.

That's so me, by the way.

I think that was my dad. Not good enough, do it again.

Exactly. So, so I get the first one done and Mark's like, okay, time to rinse and repeat. I'm like, okay, well, I guess I gotta repeat it. And, um, and I did repeat it a number of times, but I, but I think, um, there's repeating deals and then there's, there's the whole notion of scaling, I think. And I think Where it really, where it really rang true with me that this is something I could grow into something very substantial was at about my 2-year anniversary, my passive income surpassed my physical therapist salary. And I kind of woke up that day and thought, this, you know, this isn't just a side hustle. Like, I can grow this to a point where I can quit my job. And I can have more control over my time and be in control of my fate. Um, so I think the wins kind of stack as you go, and the longer you're in this, the more— I think the more powerful it becomes. That's why I always encourage people, like, you have to stick with it. Like, if you feel like you're not doing the best in month 1, 2, 3, or 4, You need to stick with it because the wins are going to become more impactful as you go, and the, the power of the business kind of accelerates as you go.

Yeah, we'll talk a lot about that, uh, in the next few days at boot camp, which I'm super excited for. The, the compounding effect of just these daily land investing habits, and they become transformative. All right. Let's, let's go back to you, Scott. Okay, this is the part nobody talks about, but we're gonna talk about it.

Okay.

We're gonna get real now.

Okay.

All right. John, get ready. Mike, get ready. This is the part.

This is great.

Let's start with them. Did you ever want to quit?

Ooh, that's a good question. Um, I don't think I ever wanted to quit. I think there were times when I was like, I don't know if this is sustainable, because I let the bank account just drain to zero in the land bank, right? So I think there were some ways I needed to figure out how to make this sustainable. But I don't think I ever wanted to quit because when I first committed, I'm kind of one of those people who, if I commit to something, I'm going to see it through. So I saw it through my first deal, and that gave me all the confidence I needed to know that I could continue doing deals. So I honestly don't know if I ever felt that way. And I still don't, right? Like, that's, you know, We talk about all— we still all get shiny object syndrome. And, and I still don't wanna quit doing what I'm doing because I can't prove to myself that the numbers are better somewhere else.

So—

I concur.

Sorry for the long-winded answer. But bottom line is, no, I never wanted to quit. I never felt like I had to.

No, no, put, put in the chat if this is valuable, by the way.

I think that was authentic, Scott. I concur.

I want to take the pulse of the audience here. But, uh, all right, Zen Master. All right, what did you screw up early?

Well, all right, a few things actually, but one of them was that I would freak out. I freaked out multiple times and sold my note portfolio. Just because I wanted cash. Yeah, I did. It was just like, you know, I, I just, uh, I wholesaled them and, and just because I guess I was just scarcity mindset a little bit. Um, but I definitely had a few times where I'd build up to a certain passive income and I'd kind of freak out. I think, I know I need cash, I need cash, and I'd sell the whole thing. And so I had to keep, you know, building it back up again. Then I would reach this freakout moment. Similar to that, I would find— I did a lot of wholesale. I would buy properties and then I would advertise it for a little bit and say, I'm going to wholesale it. And as soon as I'd wholesale it, inevitably the next day all kinds of people wanted to buy it from me retail. You know, it's just every time it happened like that, you know. And so we finally, you know, after this repetitive process, come to the realization that you say, Mark, is that all properties do sell. Um, all properties do sell. So I think that's, you know, I've had shiny object syndrome through this. I've bought, you know, different things. I bought bigger deals. I've made money on them. Some money's held out there for a long time. I think you've been talking a little bit about this recently, about you can go broke waiting for a payday on these bigger deals. And I felt like that for a while, but, but it's always kind of confirmed over and over again that these small deals is where the power is. It's like you just If you buy something at 25 cents on the dollar, 30 cents, 35 cents, 40 cents, I don't care. You buy something that cheap and you, you've already got instant equity. And you know, it's a tiny bit of money in terms of what you typically put out for other types of investing, and you can recoup it so quickly with a nice little owner financing deal. Uh, it's just, I keep— I'm so happy that I stayed. I'm happy that I stay connected to all of you, the community, because I think that's what locks you down when you start to drift away into the ether. It's like, wait, no. And you hear people's successes and it locks you back in and brings you back down. So I screwed up a lot of things, honestly. But I mean, I, I not just— I mean, I made money every time, you know, but in the big picture it was kind of— I guess I probably— first time really talking about it, Mark, I felt kind of embarrassing like that. Here I am selling my portfolio again. So I was like, what am I doing? I'm going back to zero again with my passive income. Yeah, I put a whole bunch of money in the bank, but I did that several times just out of fear or maybe old sort of scarcity mindset. So if I'm being honest, uh, I would say that.

Yeah, I mean, speaking of the community, like now for me it's, it's a, it's sort of this alarm bell when I'm stressed out about anything business-wise or even personally, but especially, you know, there's something you know, with the business, right? And it's just a reminder. It's like this, like when I feel it, I'm like, oh, I gotta call one of you guys and talk it through. Because I always love this quote, uh, you know, you can't read the label when you're inside the jar. But you guys can read the label. And so I could just explain the situation. And you're not like you care, but you're not emotionally attached, right? And you could just very calmly say, well, would you think of this? You think of that? Think of that? Like, oh, no, because I'm stressed. And I'm not thinking right. You know, I'm offline. And then to get, you know, back online, it's so simple just to pick up the phone to someone in the community who's You know, been there, done that. It's amazing. You know, Mark, I love being that for our clients too.

Yeah, I still— I've got like, somewhere on my computer, I've got some saved boxes that you sent me years ago. At moments where I was like really worried about something, I'm like, Mark, I don't know what to do. I don't know. And then you just like had the calmest, most relatable and helpful answer. And I was like, I'm going to save this and I'm going to listen to this again and again.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, but you guys are like that for everyone else in the community as well. It's, it's great. So, all right, John, was there ever a— well, yeah, let's just do this. What was your worst deal? Your worst deal?

My worst deal. I would say that— so there's one, one property I bought where due diligence, I had a VA that missed back taxes on that was on the property. And so property had $1,400 in back taxes. And I'd spent $1,250 on the property. And so what I should have done is I should have just paid the back taxes, and I probably would have sold that property for about $7,000, uh, today if it were to sell. And so, but I just let it go back to the county. So, but so that's the one that, that's the one that comes most immediately to mind. I did buy a property once that had a person on it. That was exciting.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Yeah.

Tell us about this person.

I found the— I found the person later. So they were— they were alive. So it was a living person.

But it's good.

It had a squatter on it. And so basically, We're getting this squatter off the property. That, that story is still in process.

Oh, that's happening.

It's an ongoing—

we can do weekly updates on John's person. So, wow.

But I—

those, those types of things are very, very rare. Like, my general theory is that, like, about 1 in 100 deals you get a squatter, you know, or something like that. And so, and in my experience, anytime I've had to deal with something like that, it was stressful the first time. And then actually dealing with it and getting on the other side of the issue was not nearly as challenging or as stressful as I originally anticipated. So.

Amazing.

Amazing.

All right. I'm gonna ask you 5 questions now. Each of you, the 5 same questions.

Okay.

Okay. Because we're gonna get a lot of insight. What does freedom actually look like today?

So for me, I would say that freedom largely centers around time with my family.

So what moments with your family stand out?

Yeah, so for me, like, so I get up early. And I, uh, I come here, so I get up at 4:30 and I come here to my office and sit down and read my Bible and hang out and pray. And then I go home and I make breakfast for my family, and then I sit down with them and hang out. And then, um, I drive my kids to school, although today is the last day of school, so I don't do that anymore. But I drive my kids to school Every morning. We've had people, we've had people actually offer to carpool our kids, and we said no because I like driving my kids to school in the morning and having time with them. And then after that, I come home and I have coffee with my wife, and then I go to work, and I often will come home. And have lunch with my family. I'll go back to work, I'll come home, and I'll have dinner with my family. And we'll hang out and we'll read and we'll talk. And then evenings, I, I don't work, except for Tuesday nights when I hang out with—

We appreciate it. This isn't work.

This is fun. So But yeah, so for me, that's largely what it comes down to. Like, I, you know, I've talked about this, like, I like, I like being busy, you know, but I, I want to be busy on my own terms and in my own schedule, like, on my own schedule, right? And so, yeah, so.

Yeah, what's different about your stress levels now?

I mean, they're Lower. They're low. Okay.

How low can you go?

I—

it's funny because like, I mean, coming back to the idea of like what we talked about earlier, like each time the first time I did something, there would be that pit in my gut and that little bit of stress. And it's funny because like I've been— besides this, like I've been on the podcast a couple times, Mark. Like early on in Land of Besting, it was me and Val, you know, talking about our journey. And then we were on again more recently. And it's funny for me watching that initial episode because I feel like I can hardly even recognize myself. Like I've grown a ton doing this, you know, and that's been, that's been great.

That's, that's amazing. What's something— I think we all know the answer to this, but I'm gonna ask anyways. What's something money can't buy That land investing gave you?

Time. That's an easy one. Okay.

What's your favorite ordinary moment now that used to be impossible?

I would say, um, I mean, I think my favorite moment is, uh, I love doing coffee time with my, with my wife every day. Like, that's great. And then, and then also the time that I have here in the morning every day is, is wonderful. And I don't know, all of the moments are so great. They're all my favorite. I like them all.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's like that, uh, Mike, you might remember this, that, that Zen parable, uh, where the, the Zen master's in the, the butcher's market. He asked the butcher Uh, you know, what's the best cut of meat? And the butcher says, all my meat are the best cuts of meat. At that point, he becomes enlightened because you realize all the moments are the best moments, right? Um, okay, Mike, what does freedom actually look like today for you?

First of all, it's so tough to follow John.

He's— I know, right?

Thanks.

I know.

Ah, what is— what is it now? What is freedom?

What does freedom actually look like today for you?

Freedom is really, well, probably similar to what John said, but just to be present, particularly present with family members when they're having difficult times, because that's when they really require your presence. You know, my parents are getting older, and to be able to be close to them and support them and guide them, I can't think of a more priceless thing in the world, you know, to be able to give back to them. My kids are growing. You know, I— it's kind of rewarding. And it's awesome to realize that they need you probably more in their 20s than even when they were younger, right? And so as they go through their challenges, I am present, I am aware, like I am here for whatever. It doesn't matter what time of day or night, I can be wherever and whenever they need. So to me, that's freedom. That's, that's, that is just something that has come as a result of this that is literally priceless. I can't— and it really shines through in life's most difficult moments. If my daughter's bringing one of my grandkids to the hospital or something happened, I can be instantly there. Wherever I need to be, I can be there. And that's just priceless.

I love it.

What, what moments with family stand out now to you?

With family, what moments stand out? Well, probably, you know, mostly just, you know, every night just having that, you know, I love to, like John said, I like to be busy. But on my terms, I find that I'm engaging, you know, so just because you develop time freedom doesn't mean all of a sudden everything comes to a freeze or a standstill. I'm constantly trying to become a better version of myself, and I'm trying to develop myself and build. If I have one business on autopilot, you know, I'll build another land business. I don't know. I want to do something. I want to stay active. But at night, I like to shut it off, and I like to be able to have that, you know, time with Laura. And just whether we watch a show or each read a book, whatever it might be, and just spend that time together, that, that's, that's a great— just going to a local bistro, a local restaurant, and just, you know, hey, it's 7:30. Let's just go here and have, you know, sit at the bar, have a glass of wine and a little appetizer. You know, it's just priceless. That's awesome.

I love it.

I love it.

What's different about your stress levels now? Oh, it's—

I think I'm starting to just really embraced the idea of just like this slow, sort of confident approach to life where— so the stress levels are very, very low, uh, because it's just like, it's not like challenges aren't going to come, but I'm going to meet them with sort of a very— because that I don't have to deal with typical pressures that people do. I mean, 54, 55 this month, Mark, we're both— I think you, I think you—

Yeah.

You, you get there a little before me. Uh, it's still a pretty young age, and I go places— I'll tell you when I feel grateful. I brought my dad to the doctor's office the other day, and then the ladies behind the counter, beautiful women in their 60s, and they're like, oh— he's like, how long are you gonna work? Oh, another 5 years. These people are working to these— to the twilight years of their life. And I'm not saying anything bad. I mean, that's just— that's what they do, and that's working for them, but What gratefulness I feel. Here I am, I'm like, I'm 54 and I'm with my dad, and I'm like, I'm already retired. And like, it's just so grateful. It's no— there is no hubris there. There's no cockiness. Little, little, uh, word Scrabble for Scott. He loves the hubris. He could play that in Scrabble.

But I'm not—

I don't mean it in any way, Mark, other than I can't tell you— I always tell people the one word I have for this business is I'm grateful. Just grateful.

I love it.

I love it.

What's something money can't buy that land investing gave you?

Well, yeah, I mean, like John said, time, but I think it also, it brought purpose. It brought purpose. It's the fact that I built something, you know, I think I told you, Mark, I have told you, back in my 20s, Zig Ziglar, Wayne Dyer, the beginning of Tony Robbins, man, I listened to mall, and I was super charged up, but I had nothing to do with it. I tried selling Kirby's cars, like, what am I gonna do with all this? So then I became a firefighter, which is great, but then to have to go through adversity and reinvent myself in my 40s, and then be able to, to, to all of a sudden take all this stuff and apply it in a real, in a real business venture, and to become Uh, you know, have this be like a conduit for that. It's just amazing. I'm so— it's, it's brought to me— I'm proud. I really am proud of myself, you know, to be honest, you know. And I say that in a very humble way. I'm, I'm proud of what I've been able to do because, as I tell people a lot of times, life's— you're going right, right, right, right, and sometimes you got to go left. And man, you can't turn left on your own. You need a community, you need people, you need people. Everybody's going to be tugging on that steering wheel. Because you're going to go a different direction now. Um, but when you make that turn, wow, you know. So I'm proud of myself. I really am, humbly saying that.

I love it. I love it. What's your favorite ordinary moment now that used to be impossible?

I don't set the alarm clock. I wake up when I wake up, and I spend about a half hour doing deep breathing. Shoutouts to Breath by Sandy. Ever follow him, Mark?

Oh yeah, I've been doing Breath by Sandy for a long time. That's so funny.

That guy, I should be a subscriber to his Patreon. I think I will now. But anyway, every morning it's a new one, and I just lay there for a half hour. You know, Laura's used to it by now. The dogs hop on top of me and just kind of stare at me. But I wake up when I wake up, and I do my deep breathing, and then I get up and do some light yoga stretching and have a coffee and read some books. And it's just like, there's no way that was possible Up, you know, years of this.

It's—

no, it's impossible. Like, this is— this is a— that moment is, uh, is just very precious to me.

Yeah, I love it.

I love it. All right, dude buddy. Okay, what does freedom actually look like today for you?

Yeah, I think, you know, it's very similar to, to what Mike and John Have talked about, I think, um, just the fact I don't have to be anywhere but, um, but home or anywhere where I'm needed, maybe by my family. Um, I used to hate the mornings. The mornings were really tough. They were very stressful to try to get 4 boys out the door and get to work on time and all that. And there were multiple different schools involved in that type of thing. John Burnett was definitely a better dad, get her to school dad than I was. Because it was, it was stressful to get all these kids ready and out the door. So I just love my mornings now. Like I can just, you know, roll out of bed and I'm not hurried to take a shower and hurried to make my coffee and hurried to do everything. I can put my ball cap on and go sit out on the deck and Get some sunlight on my face for 10 minutes and kind of do a morning little meditation or prayers or that type of thing on my back deck while the birds are singing. That's kind of the morning routine now, which I love. And then just, you know, being in control of my day and having the option to, to go where I need to go if, if my family needs me. So that's freedom for me, I think.

Amazing. What moments with family stand out?

Yeah, I mean, I think, like Mike said, you know, there have been times here in the last few years that have been, that have been tough because my family have maybe had some health issues. And I've been able to— and my son had health issues. I've been able to, you know, put some things on hold in my land business and spend time with those people and help them to the best of my ability without feeling the stress of, you know, a boss breathing down my neck, right? Or paperwork piling up on my desk, or being responsible for 50 different patients, that type of thing. So—

Amazing. What's different about your stress levels now?

Yeah, I mean, I'm much less stressed, stressed, much less stressed than I used to be, for sure. You know, I think that just, just the fact that I feel financially secure and I have the time with my family that I've always yearned for and The fact that this is a laptop business and I can— wherever my laptop is, I can do it. I can go on vacation for 10 days and check in for an hour a day and my team's still doing deals. Um, yeah, all that stuff.

I love it. What's something money can't buy that land investing gave you?

I mean, you guys, look at this. Yeah. But seriously, so—

If you gave me money, I would have been your friend.

Okay.

Uh, I mean, so John alluded to this earlier, but— and we've talked about this many times in the past— uh, in this community, you, you make, you make real friends, right? And you make, you make real connections that, uh— and, and I'm convinced that I am a better person because of All of the people I've met in this community and because of all the people that I surround myself with. And though it's virtually 99% of the time, I still consider the fact that I'm surrounding myself with you guys. And I've grown as a person and I've grown as an entrepreneur. And there's just been a lot of personal growth and development. So, that is what land investing has given me that I don't think you can necessarily buy. I mean, best, best friends.

Right. There you go.

Hey, cheers. Thank you. There we go.

What's your favorite ordinary moment now that used to be impossible?

Yeah, I don't know. I think just okay. How about just reading during the day? Like, I can pick up a book in the middle of the day and read 10 or 20 pages, or if I'm engaged, even more. And I never used to be able to do that, and I like to read. So that's probably just a little moment of freedom that, that I really enjoy about my day. Yeah. Or how about the 10, the 10-minute catnap? I love the 10-minute catnap. Love those too.

I love it. Are you doing the Navy SEAL catnap where you, you lay down on the floor and you put your legs up? On like the couch.

Oh, wow.

No, but I mean, about elevating your knees. Try it.

Yeah, try the 90-90. The 90-90 position is good for your back too.

Yeah, there you go. There it is.

We've just—

I've been doing it.

That's our thing. So you drink the coffee, take the nap.

Yeah, yeah, they're great. I'm gonna do that with the baby seal thing all at once.

Oh, I like it. While in a bright room.

All right, well, we've got 9 minutes. Should we answer some questions? Or should we do a rapid fire round? I have a rapid fire round.

So put—

if you have a question or put a comment, rapid fire.

I don't think there's a ton of questions in the chat. They're more like comments. Yeah, well, you know, I don't know if we're— I don't know what this— I'm not the tech guy, but this is— this is the YouTube chat. I don't know if there's any questions.

By the way, can I tell you guys a quick story about what I did last week?

Yes, please.

I did the 5-day sardine fast.

Oh yeah, how was that?

Oh yeah, I gotta tell you, I won't do it again. But I think the health benefits are real. Like, by day 3, I was really mentally clear. But by day 4, like, I was choking them down. I could not face more sardines. And then by day 5, I just wanted— like, I had no appetite by day 4 or 5 at all. Day 3, maybe had a little bit. But like, to face the sardine was so hard. And now even Even thinking about it, I get nauseous.

Can you eat as many as you want? Is there no reason?

No, no, you have— I'd have 3 tins a day. Because like, that's, you know, like 60 grams of protein.

And crackers or anything?

No, no, it's just— no, you go into ketosis. It's just sardines. I can put mustard on it.

Well, you—

how does your—

oh, mustard.

Thinking, Mark, was it clear-headed thinking?

I was so— oh my gosh, it was like I mean, the colors were so bright. Like, I was so clear-headed.

It's like that.

Like a retreat or something, like some kind of an event, a sardine retreat.

Yeah, yeah. But I will not be doing it again.

You should do that while you're in the darkroom.

Well, like, you know, my deep sleep was amazing. I slept great. My buddy did it with me. He's like, I haven't had 6 hours of, of, of Uninterrupted sleep in like 12 years.

Wow.

He's like, and I got it. But he and I both agreed.

Could you conceivably do the same thing with like haddock? Or does it have to be sardines?

It had to be sardines.

What about Cheetos?

Cheeto diet.

The Cheeto—

could we— should we all do a Cheeto fast for 5 days? I have a feeling the health benefits are not gonna be the same.

I mean, pick something a little bit more palpable, like bananas. Let's do a banana fast. Or let's do a—

I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what gets you 90% there from what I've been reading. Of all the health benefits is an egg fast. Oh, sardines. It's the 7 days of darkness. Yeah. Okay.

You will levitate in the darkness if you do that.

Yeah, exactly.

Oh man.

So, all right, should we do the rapid fire?

Yeah, everybody wants that.

Let's do it.

All right, we'll go. All right, um, Scott Bossman, most underrated skill?

Ah, underrated skill. Uh, oh man, I don't know. I can sing, I guess.

Zen Master, most underrated skill you have?

Underrated skill I have? Oh, I can, uh, I can tell stories for days and days and days without interruption.

That is underrated. John, what's a great skill?

I would say— I was telling Isaac Burke this, who's watching right now, by the way. So my most underrated skill is that I'm okay at a lot of things.

Superhero, the average man. I love it.

I love it. Um, all right, John, back to you. Biggest misconception about land investing?

Um, You have to work in your backyard. I don't know if that's the biggest one, but that's one that a lot of people think. Oh, okay, good.

Zen Master, biggest misconception about land investing?

You need money. You need money.

Dude Buddy, biggest misconception about land investing?

Um, That, that $1,000 deals won't get you there.

Okay.

Oh, wow.

I like that one.

Ding!

That was number one.

All right. This is a tough one. We'll start with DudeBuddy because I just love when Mike just lights up when he doesn't have to have the toughest question to start.

I'd like to get prepped.

Right?

What keeps most people stuck?

Um, their fears, uncertainties, and doubts. I stole that from Zano.

We took like 3.

The FUDs, the FUDs, man.

He's going with fears. Mike says uncertainty. I say doubt.

No, that's not how it works.

All right. Do you— does anybody have anything different they want to say? Well, most people stuck.

It's— that is it. I mean, come on, it's the fears, uncertainties, and doubts. Um, and by the way, shout out to Mark. That's why I think the number one reason you should read Dirt Rich is— is not— yes, it's 2018, yes, things have changed, but the mindset— Mark, you had fears, you had uncertainties, and you had doubts, and they're in the book, and you overcome them, and you're human like the rest of us. So that's the number one reason to read that book and to reread it.

Thank you.

I have one more thing to add to fears, uncertainties, and doubts, which would be that, um, like, and I— it's something I say a lot— is just persistence, right? So if you go to the gym, right, it's, it's easy for that first week, and then when something happens, and then like you get sick, right, or you could have a bag of Cheetos for lunch maybe, and you hit that point and you're like, I just I don't really feel like it, right? And you have to keep going. And so it's one of the things we talk about a lot is you need to— you need a big reason why, right? You know, if your doctor tells you you're gonna die in a year unless you start exercising every day, it's gonna mean a lot more to you, right?

Yeah.

And for us, coming into the land investing business and having a strong reason to make this work, uh, gave us that persistence. Hello, dog.

Hi, dog. Where's the cat? I didn't even—

this is Cooper.

Cooper.

Cooper the land dog.

Oh, nice.

I thought you said pooper.

I was like, all right, I'm gonna tee this up for Mike because I think I know the answer. What matters more, mindset or strategy?

Definitely mindset. In fact, if anybody here needs a boost of mindset, listen to the— I always advise people, The Strangest Secret by Earl Nightingale. It's a 30-minute video on YouTube. Every year I listen to it, sometimes every day for like a month or two at the beginning of the year, because it's 30 minutes and it resets you and it lets you know that anything is possible. Like, you literally have more control over your life than you imagine. Just, you know, take control of it. So mindset wins every day.

All right, John, last question. What would your old self think seeing your life today?

I think that he would be surprised.

Oh, okay. What would he be surprised about?

I think that, I don't know, like, it's so easy to look at the future and just think, I could never, I could never have that, right? And I think about that. I mean, Land business aside, just my wife and my kids, like, that's something I never would have dreamed of, of just being as absolutely wonderful as it is, right? And so, um, but with, with my land investing business, the idea of having time freedom and flexibility is not something that was really fathomable. To me before this. And even jumping into this, I didn't know of anybody that had time freedom like this, that could just take a day off whenever they want, spend time on what they want to do. And so the idea of me pursuing this, you know, there's a part of you that doesn't really believe it's possible. And it was, right? Great.

Well, I love it. Well, we're at time. If you guys want to learn more about how to become like these 3 Jamooks, go to thelandgeek.com/training and schedule a call and see if land investing is going to be a good fit for you, because we are the only, uh, the only people out there that are really going to train you step by step on how to solve not just your money problems but also your time problems and create a passive income, create this river of nickels so that you can work when you want, where you want, with whom you want, and have total freedom. So, and which is what we, you know, we want for all of you. We want to give back. And, um, yeah.

Let's say 2 things at the end here, Mark.

Yeah.

Number one, Wes Mantooth, just stay the course. He was asking us, he's just finishing flight school, he's got 4 properties. That itself, in itself, is a huge victory. Yes, you haven't made a sale yet, but if you stay the course, they are around the corner. And hopefully you come to boot camp because you'll get so much out of that. And secondly, Scott does woodworking, and after all these years, I've never received a piece of woodwork ever. A special gift for his best friend.

Shouldn't you be whittling something for us?

Whittle for me. You're right, Mark. I want to put it away. Yeah, something special.

Yeah, it's crazy. All these years, like, I never knew this about him.

Yeah, my first side hustle, I made these really cool marble runs for my kids, and then, uh, and then I made more marble runs for other people and sold them, and it would take like 10 hours per marble run. And while it was fulfilling, it just, uh, yes, it was a time suck. So, Mike, I'll, uh, make your grandkids a marble run. How's that?

All right, all right.

Can you make my grandkids a marble run? You have—

I will. By the time I get done with the second one, you'll have grandkids.

So yeah.

Also, oh, I was gonna say Brad Kelly is gonna be near me, it sounds Like in August. So hit me up, Brad.

Cheetos on John.

We'll go on the Cheeto diet.

Baked potatoes.

We're gonna have it all.

I love it.

Wes, to your question, or maybe you're saying because what realistic, realistic expectations for success? Realistic is you're going to succeed. Stay the course. You absolutely will sell those properties. Maybe you put that after I, I, uh, so anyway, I'm just joking.

Yeah, they all sell. You're a baby in this business. You're just a baby. 4 months. Oh my gosh.

I love you all. Thank you all for coming. You know, it really, uh, makes it more fun to have interaction. You know, we do this just as a value add, truly. It's like, you know, I often tell people on a podcast— I'm not podcast famous— we have a small community of like-minded people that we just like to Just help out and inspire. And, um, I think we, uh, like you said, if these Jamooks can do it, anybody can do it.

Anybody can do it.

That's the quote of the night, by the way. It's like, it's getting re— look at it, it's getting a lot of traction in the comments. Jamooks, Jamooks, Jamooks, Jamooks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, lots of comments.

I was talking to somebody, uh, I was talking to somebody yesterday and he was like, do you listen to any real estate podcasts? I was like, not really right now. I was like, oh wait, I have one.

Yeah. I'm on one. Yeah, I— yeah, The Art of Passive Income podcast.

And I was over with a friend, so I was like, I gotta go home, I gotta get on the podcast. Yeah, this podcast thing I gotta do.

But okay, so dude, buddy, speaking of relasting before we go.

Yeah.

So I get up early, and I like to drink my water out in the outside, reset my circadian rhythm. But now I like— I read every morning like some, you know, now I'm trying to read more fiction. So I'm taking on Infinite Jest and it's over 1,000 pages. So I figure if I just read 10 pages every morning, 100 days, I'll get through this thing.

Infinite Jest.

And yes, is this another, um, uh, what's the guy? I just finished that long name book, you guys, and it was incredible.

Uh, Shatterhand?

Shantaram.

Another Shantaram type thing.

It's, it's more— yeah, it's, it's philosophical like Shantaram, but it's very lyrical. It's very, uh, it's very academic. It's very dude buddy.

What's the name again?

Infinite Jest. Like, I'm reading it with chat. I'm like, what does this mean? What is he saying here? Like, it's a hard read.

I, I think, you know, I think you get a good point there, Mark. You know, fiction with its sort of emotional content can convey principles so much better and so much more fun to learn from. So, um, Shantaram was, uh, unbelievable. Uh, there's a sequel. I just didn't quite—

How was the sequel?

Yeah, the sequel is amazing.

I didn't— all right, the Apple show goes way too fast. What a letdown, you know. Um, A great actor, I know.

But yeah, it's the best audiobook of all time. Shantaram.

What do you call it, John?

The sequel?

What sequel of Shantaramaram?

Shantaramaram.

It's something mountain. Lin Baba.

I just went around. Everybody was Lin Baba. After I was done, I was running.

Lin Baba.

Lin Baba. She's like, stop. I'm like, I can't.

Sounds so good. Oh my gosh. All right. Well, thanks everybody. See everyone next week.

See you later.

Cheers.

Oh, here, let me stop the show. Hold on.