IBM Watson AI Lab presentation to Dutch doctors / Thomas Anglero ( 2 of 4)

Are you feeling okay? Right? That's typically what a doctor does, right? Can software do that? Can software touch you? How are you doing today? Are you okay? Software can't do that, right? So Watson has done all the analysis, right? All the analytics. Looking at all the data in the world, making a recommendation. But the GP, the human being, Right? How are you? I'm feeling whether or not he's tense, right? Don't you ever wonder why the doctor touches you a lot, other than if they're a pervert? Right? Right? Right? And now I'm afraid to touch her because she's gonna think I'm a pervert or something. Thank you. But then you don't need to be a doctor anymore. No, no. Of course you do.

Why?

Because you— Watson's making the recommendation, but now I'm back to touching you. You know, sometimes the doctor jokes around and goes, "So how's your husband doing?" Right? This thing of squeezing, like when I was in pre-med school, they said you should be touching people because my fingertips have sensors and things like that. And also, if she's sad, I could feel it. If she's happy and laughing or something, you You know when you fall in love with somebody, you just, you can feel them? And when you touch somebody, you squeeze somebody, you feel them inside you? Go on. Go Dutch! I'll go over here. America first, Netherlands second. No, no, no, no, no Trump stories. I always love talking about—

but why do you need— the question was, yeah, why do you need a doctor?

Thomas, do you know this book, The Patient Will See You Now? No, sir. Oh, it's from an American, Eric Topol, and he says that, you know, the GP is out in, in 10 years. We don't have GPs anymore because people do it themselves with the smartphones. With the help of Watson and they get scenario that it's— So that's a whole different discussion with 10 years from now.

Man staring at this.

That's Watson. I'll drive her. That's Watson.

Watson is coming.

I'm the only one here, so I don't know who he is. So today, As I was saying a moment ago, does everybody remember the first time they fell in love?

Yeah.

Everybody fell in love once? Not twice. Is this the moment to tell?

You gotta tell multiple things in one moment.

This is a trip none of you will ever forget. So that first moment that you fell in love and you felt that thing, that the knot, the the loss of breath and all that stuff. That connection that we have to one another, no computer will ever, ever have it, period. Okay? And that's why I was touching you and all that, because as you joked around and said, "Keep on," right? But that's part of the human experience, right? Does everybody like to get a hug? Do you mind if I hug you? Right? Isn't a hug a wonderful thing? Right?

Fantastic.

It is fantastic.

Right?

Oh, that connection we have. And then after the hug, now we're closer. Even though I'm not hugging you anymore, we still have this connection. That is why a GP, not because GPs will hug you, but that is the connection that the software doesn't have. Now, the thing about 10 years from now, for me, that's more on a bi— not bi— technical level. Going back to what his question was, and that is that If I'm monitoring all the different vitamin and minerals absorption rate from through his intestinal wall, if I'm monitoring his blood pressure, his red blood count, his white blood cell count, uh, his leukocytes and lymphocytes, everything, I'm monitoring everything on a millisecond level, then technically through all the information I can make a recommendation to him at the immediate moment that he needs something. But does that mean we don't need a doctor? That means technically I can keep you in perfect health, but there's something else to this. There's something more.

I have a feeling that the role of the doctor is going to change because it helps the patients to make the trip.

Yes, yes, more a coach, huh? Maybe more a coach. It's going to change, and medical schools, well, they And then we have a big war coming, right? Because the medical schools are existing paradigm, back to that existing paradigm, right? But if the software is so informative, I can't say intelligent because it's so informative that it's able to tell me what I need all the time, then what do I need a doctor for? I do need help. I need help to understand. We all need a coach, a counselor. We all need a best friend when we have a challenge, a problem, somebody to talk to. So things will change, right? And one of the things I love doing in talking to CEOs when we get into this type of discussion is the relationships we have with one another is based on love. You know, I go into the spirituality discussion. The more tech I learn, the more spiritual I become. Because if the tech is making sure that everybody in this room is 100% healthy, then shouldn't we be loving each other more, using our free time and all our energy to love on each other more? Unless you're an evil son of a bitch and you're just thinking about how to kill the rest of the world, right? But the rest of us would be like, hey, I'm in perfect health, you're in perfect health, let's have fun. Let's look, you know, love each other and enjoy each other's company even more. You know, there's a dark side where people say, oh, you know, these computers and robots are going to destroy the world. I say, if you look at the picture, I say we all can go within 5 to 10 years, we all can be in perfect health all the time. Then damn, we should all be in a great mood and have a lot more fun. Right? The crops will be closer to 100% what we plant comes up. We'll be able to determine what is toxic or what's going to be toxic 3 years before it's toxic. We could create an incredible environment on the whole planet.

Will anybody ever die?

Ni go to Norway. And then you have the question of you have to define death and you have to define life. Somebody will shoot you, you will die. And you have to define consciousness. So we're working on the human brain on a chip. This is not Watson, this is IBM research. And what is consciousness? So if we could put all your memories into a computer chip, And we're able today to do cognitive thought, be able to connect different thoughts and for you to come to a conclusion. Is that you?

But is there in that a difference between a human and a robot?

What's the difference? If I have all your memories and I'm able to reproduce the way you come to conclusions, is that you? Or is that— are you more than that? Now we move to your moral, ethical— you guys are great with these questions because you guys grasped all the whole thing of where this thing's going, right? So where's the moral ethical question? What is consciousness, right? Why is it that when I look at her, I feel something special, and I look at him and I don't feel that? Yeah, we understand that.

Completely.

Are we gonna fight outside now? But my point is that it's not a physical thing, right? Even if I was blind and I was in this room and people would talk to me, I would feel different things for different people. So it's not a physical thing. We're all connected. What is that connection that we have? Why do I want to spend more time with the person? If I'm blind, why do I want to spend more time with the person over here than the person here? Not that I hate or like, it's just that something is happening. What is that? And then how do you put that in software? What is consciousness? What is existence? What is life? What is love? What is hate? Where does that even come from? Well, you talk about feelings and other kind of things, but maybe in the future we can not only create a chip for memories but also create a chip for feelings. Yeah. So we, with Watson, what we've done is We've put in hundreds of millions of different images of the human face. So Watson can determine whether or not you're happy or sad or depressed based on if you're happy, the cheeks go up, the skin goes this way. You're sad. So Watson can determine that. It's all based on historical records. But emotions, you know, I'm a man. I don't understand women emotions. I'm sorry, I never met a man who could understand women's emotions. I can't wait for some software to freaking help me out with that. Right? Every man knows that they got into trouble because they can't figure out what world they existed in. I don't know. I'll be the first person to buy the damn software to do this. But you guys connected the dots really quick. And it's not where we're going, we're actually there now.

Right?

So 6 months ago, Watson read 1 million pages every second. 6 months later, where we are today, it's 10 million every second. 6 months from now, I think we'll probably hit 100 million pages. I mean, but there's no limit. The technology is not going to stop. So again, it brings me back. To how much do we love each other. It really does come down to that. The tech won't stop. What kind of relationship do we have? What kind of life do we have, want to have with one another? We control the tech. What do we want the tech to do to help humanity? There'll be future. Watson will be for free on internet. We can log in like we choose Google to search. We choose Watson to make all kind of So that's today. And but Watson is a bunch of services, like Google's a search engine. Watson's sort of a search engine. But then you— with Watson, you put different pieces of Watson. I want the Watson that can see, I want the Watson that can hear, I want this, and I will put it all together and I'll make an app. That's what's happening today. So to answer your question, that's happening today. But IBM is only making the parts of Like the parts of a car. IBM makes the springs, it makes the shocks, it makes the tires, but it doesn't make the car. But we allow the rest of the world to make whatever car you want, but we're supplying all the different pieces. That's today, so that answer's already happening. And as we give new pieces of the car that have never been done before, then these really innovative people start creating really innovative solutions. You can have a virtual husband.

He understands our feelings.

Should I touch that? You've learned too, right? You had a question? Yes, we're talking about medical, really physical medical advice, but also psychiatric. Well, thank you. Psychiatry and secular understand that, of course, it could be— it could— you talk to a computer and then have answers that make you think, make you maybe heal yourself. I think you could talk about mental health, because we are beginning— we're beginning a health project in mental health with Watson here in Norway, and we're working on that project with the head director of the the biggest department of mental health in Norway for a few months now. And I went into that project with a lot of energy. Any work in mental health? Yeah. Yeah. Do you guys— I went into that project with enthusiasm like I do with all my projects. And then I found out how bad mental health is. And not that I lost my enthusiasm, but like, reality check. Holy shit, how bad this thing is. So mental health, the cost of mental health in Norway is so large that if you take all the other costs of cancer, heart, all the other departments in all the other hospitals combined, it's still less than the cost of mental health in Norway. Mental health is the beast that nobody talks about, at least in the healthcare system What time is it? It's almost 3 o'clock. Okay. The guests that I've invited, some guests from Cisco. You guys know the IT company called Cisco? They have a Dutch project using that special board there. And I thought it would be nice for you guys to see what's actually the technology being used back at your house. So they're just going to wait down the hall until we're all done talking. Is that okay? I'm sorry, somebody asked me a great question before I left.

Mental health.

Mental health. The beast.

The beast.

Next question. So, sorry for going way out with mental health, it's just, it's depressing, and that's not a pun. So I call mental health the part of the healthcare that has the worst marketing because absolutely nobody talks about it and it needs to be talked about. What we have found, at least I can only talk about Norway, but it's probably true of other countries, you guys tell me. In Norway, each, if one of each one of you are doctors who treat in the treatment of mental health, when you treat a patient for depression, you treat me for depression, you would treat me one way, you would treat me another way, you would treat me another way. In Norway we found that none of the doctors are talking. The doctors are, have so many patients they have no time to reflect to reflect and to look back on the treatment of whether or not it's working. And sometimes we have patients who are being treated by multiple doctors, being medicated by multiple doctors, nobody's talking and I'm just taking all this medication. And the question of whether or not the results are working or not, as, because the doctors are caught up in paperwork and they have no time to do proper analytical follow-up, looking over the last 5 years, I've done the following, whether or not this is working, they don't do it. And then you have the guidelines. The hospital says that every doctor must follow guidelines, but you know you're gonna do whatever you wanna do, you're gonna do whatever you wanna do. Welcome to mental health. That's why nobody talks about it. There's no, what we found in Norway is there's some statistical studies that said this works and that works, but when you look at the numbers, the study doesn't make any sense, you can see that some of the things. It is such a dark place. And it has gotten not enough attention and has not been professionalized. It's like stepping back in the dark. So here in Norway, they approached me and said, we would like to use Watson to start looking at all this data and let's get some good results. So we're just in the first days of this discussion. So sorry about my body language, but it breaks my heart. To know that we have, in Oslo alone, we have 17 hospitals dedicated solely to mental health, just in Oslo. It's, it's, and but nobody wants, no one talks about it. It's the biggest health cost, it's just mental health. Cancer gets a lot of, you know, publicity. Mental health is— And then another story I got from the director, she's, she's so It's so dark. Sorry. I'll use a different one. She says there's a panel in which if someone is suffering from mental health, we sit in a panel like this and we have to make a decision whether or not that person is going to get treatment. And the percentage of people we actually approve is very small compared to people who don't get treated by the government. And we don't even know what happens to them. Mental health is— Yeah, I'm very happy to be in that project, but it is a wake-up call to being a human being on this planet. Because the statistics of people with mental health is growing, and the number of young people between 14 and 18, she told me, is growing really fast. And because they're medicating these kids and they don't look at whether or not it's work— it works, they're medicating more and more kids every single week, but they don't know it's work— it's working. Mental health is a bit of a mess. And I think probably every country is probably in this situation, but nobody wants to talk about mental health. I don't understand. Maybe I'm putting my foot in something. But I'm quite upset. So we're going to begin to use Watson to try to look at what's been done and what should be done. Wish us luck.

Can I ask another question?

Please.

You're here near by the Consulate General of cancer center in Oslo. And how is Watson used in this cancer center? Is it one by one, each cancer patient?

It's not used.

It's not used at all?

Not used at all. But that's why, that's why I established this room here, is because of what we were joking about, the ego of the doctors, right? So when I, when I started, took over Watson, I said, listen, for us to actually We have to go to the doctors. We can't invite the doctors to our offices. We have to go to them. So here we are. You guys are the first people ever to be in this room, right? This is ground zero for Watson, but not just Watson Health. This is ground zero for every Watson for every industry. It doesn't matter. And now that we're here, we have lunch with the researchers and doctors downstairs. So now they get a little bit more comfortable with Watson. So this is why I did it. If I really want to help save lives, I have to eat where you eat, I have to be where you are.

Right? Yeah, but the possibilities that Watson is offering is being used already in cancer research, only not here in Oslo.

And nowhere in Norway. Like every country, it's extremely difficult to get these doctors to even give you time.

Here in Oslo?

Norway. Norway. Egos, paradigm, we do things this way, no software is as smart as I am, or do you know who I am? I get all this stuff.

Could you then tell in line what's— Leanne asked what Watson has been doing with all their research, cancer research in our country?

Sure. So we have Watson from Oncology in 19 countries around the world. We have it in over 14 hospitals in the United States, and what it does is those breast, lung, colorectal cancer, and it does exactly what I've been saying. We have Watson for clinical trials. In clinical trials, one of the challenges are when you have a patient and you have— you don't know what else to do to help them, you say, well, maybe we could find a clinical The amount of weeks of work it takes for a nurse or a doctor to find an appropriate clinical trial for you, poor guy's getting hammered, right? So each one of you are unique, each one of you have a unique blood type and all this stuff. Well, to match a person, many of you guys know this, you're in the healthcare industry, to match him in a clinical trial, everything has to be exactly right, all the prerequisites. That takes a hell of a lot of work. Just to look at one clinical trial, okay, there's 50 prerequisites. Okay, let me look at his file. Maybe— nope, but I spent 20 minutes doing that one. Okay, let me try to find— so Watson does all that research in a matter of minutes. And it is connected to all the databases in the world of all the clinical trials. It knows who you are and is able to do that comparison to whatever thousands of clinical trials around the world in a couple of minutes and give— and say, here you go. Here's one, here's two, here's three. So we have Watson for clinical trials. We have Watson for oncology. We have Watson for genomics. In the area of genomics, when you map somebody's DNA, what we're not interested is in the whole mapping of DNA. We're only interested in your mutation file. So, you know, when you map somebody's DNA, it's a gigantic file. But then every one of us have mutations. All of us, right? If you have a mutation— pick on you again— if she has a mutation on her cute nose, and she has a mutation on her thumb, what does that mean? It can mean nothing, or it can mean maybe she has— she's sick. But most of us has thousands of mutations, so this thousands of mutations are unique to her, but what is that unique 1,000 combination, or 10,000 combination, what is the end result? What does that mean? It's too much for human beings to calculate, but Watson can. So we have Watson for genomics where we take— we map your DNA, but we want only your mutation file. We send it to Watson, and in under 10 minutes Watson says, "This is what it found. This is based on the research.

This is what you have." Or maybe Watson says, "I don't know what you have because we have never done any research with your combination of mutations." But isn't that the real issue with Watson, that it's so beyond human imagination that you can be a doctor or a nurse, whatever, that you can't really accept what he or she— I don't know what's in his ego— is telling you.

That's where we are today. Yeah, it's, it's, you know, the older the doctor I talk to, the more they're stuck there. I spent 30 years doing what I've been doing. I know what I know. You cannot change the way I think. I am the director of this, this, this. I'm on an international board. I am blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I don't even mean that. I don't even mean the ego.

It's not just— just the— no, my intellect is so superior that I'm on the board of everything. My intellect is correct. That computer's intellect is not. That computer has to think like me. I don't have to think like it. That's what I get hit with. And what I try to explain is that computers connect different dots and that it sees things different than us and we have to open up. No, you know who I am. The doctors come from the monastery. They have been trained in the monastery so that they always say the same thing as the doctors we've been talking to. And you're looking for which we are teaching you there. You know who we don't have trouble with? The young doctors at university. They all grew up with the gigantic iPad and all that. So when they hear about Watson, they're like a 3-minute discussion. After 3 minutes, they go, "Stop, I want an app." And they go, "My future has to be based on the best version of me and me together." together, now we can do medicine. They get it completely. The other ones, not ego, but you know how smart I am. That's not an ego statement, that's just saying the whole world must change their guidelines based on this brain. Is it integrated in the education? Look, yes, damn, you guys are good. So we have Watson for Education. We started up 1 year ago and I think we did it in a very cute way. We partnered with Sesame Street. You guys have Sesame Street in there? What's Sesame Street in Dutch?

Sesamstraat.

Same like Norwegian, Sesamstraat. So we partnered with Sesame Street because Sesame Street has 50 years of how to educate children. They really have figured it out, no matter what language. All of us, we're Did all you guys grow up— everybody remember?

Yeah.

I think it's really cool. So we took the knowledge they had of 50 years of educating kids, we put it into Watson, and now what we provide is we can go into a school district, and if I'm a teacher— can I have the iPad, please? So Watson for Education is the following. Watson for Education provides a personalized education for every individual student. So if all of you were students, when you were in school, what was your favorite class? Math, science? Science. Science. You love science. What was your favorite class? History. History. Yours?

Math.

Math. Okay. Science, history, math, right? What drives him is science. Anything science-related. Star Trek? No? Yeah. I'm not going to guess history. I don't know. Napoleon. Napoleon. And she's into quadratic equations.

Right?

But each one of these areas are unique to them. That's what drives them. Anything in that area. Anything in that area. Anything in that area. Especially when you're 10 years old. Right? Or you're a teenager like the kids we saw downstairs. So what Watson has done is Watson has looked at the entire curriculum. Watson has understood the area of understanding children and Watson provides the teacher in the iPad a recommendation saying, okay, for him this was driving, so based on the curriculum that she wants to or he wants to go through today, emphasis this on his individual experience and this is what he's going to work on. So Watson provides a personalized education for every single person in the classroom. At the end of the day everybody gets the same education, but it's more personalized and it's more towards the area that stimulates you. For the teacher, the teacher is monitoring the class, you know, today he's upset and maybe he had a fight with his papa or mama last night. So you were right here, you know, um, you know, upset today, his mama didn't give him lunch money, I don't know, And then that is immediately sent to the next teacher. So then when, okay, goodbye class, the class goes to the next room, the teacher has the information saying, okay, this is what's going on with this student. You know how when the kids come in, the teacher goes, why is this kid crying today? Or why is this kid upset or not paying attention? With Watson, the information passes immediately to all the other teachers. So now I say, okay, I know you're into Star Trek, but I also know you're upset. So I'm going to treat you a little bit different. You know? You okay? Yeah? Yeah. Let's watch some Netflix. Let's watch some Spock stuff. There's a drone over there. There's a who?

Oh, drone, yeah.

Uh-oh. Oh, somebody's drone looked at us.

Somebody's drone.

Somebody's drone. Welcome to the Washington Innovation Lab. We're being monitored by drones now. So much for privacy. I can always drop these damn things in.

We're not interesting enough.

This tribe is checking what we do. That's kind of useful. 10 years from now, 20 years from now, we are all depending on Watson. Not Watson, software.

Software.

What happens if it crashes? What happens if? If it crashes.

Questions?

There's so many ways to answer that, right? Um, well, I'll answer that in two ways. All software has backups, so if that one crashes, something else comes up. But let's say we get hit with, um, electromagnetic wave or something. That takes out all electronic parts, then we're back to being us. Until we can reboot. I mean, that's just a simple answer, right?

I'm still on the line of thinking that Jan started, or at least that's what it means to me.

Watson?

Machine is just processing data. So based on this data, this artificial intelligence or neural network thinking, it's making conclusions. But it will only make conclusions based on the data you put into it. It's mad. But do we ever try to— so with the the medical experiments, we put in data all the time on this disease and this treatment and this outcome. Do we put in data also this disease, no treatment, what outcome? Do we put that in there too? For example, prostate cancer is an example where often it could be good to do nothing. Is that being tried as well?

That's back to you, sir. So, existing medical treatments for prostate cancer is based on the PSA test, and the existing thought process is to usually to remove the prostate, if in doubt take it out, right? But then the other way, what you're saying is look at it from a more particular point of view. Where we are today with the technology is more in line with the existing thinking, but they— at the same time, there's an opportunity for what he was touching on, which is people like you and me, or developers or people inquisitive can create a Watson that thinks out of this paradigm. So the answer is, no, I don't know anybody doing it, but it can technically be done, no problem. Absolutely. But right now, from a corporate point of view, we over here.

Yeah, yeah. Can Watson also be manipulated?

That's back to his statement. So yes, back now, I'll answer your moral question. I wasn't trying to avoid it. We human beings, the same way as Papa, right? When your kid went to you like this, the answer you gave about what had happened that day, right? Whatever you answered is based on your vision of the world and your individual biases. We're all biased because we're human, right? So therefore, the people who train Watson put their biases into Watson as well. We've seen this over and over again.

It's not only the people, but also the kind of data you put in it. That can be a choice as well.

Well, let me give— maybe this answer helps you, this information helps you. When you're choosing multiple sources of data, when you choose that data, so I would go, okay, this database, great database, I love it to death. This database I found on the internet, I've never seen this before, it could be anybody, that quality of data I'm gonna put it over here. So Watson, don't trust it, I give it a 2 out of 10. This is a 9 out of 10. So every source of data that you tell Watson to look at and to take in, you make a judgment on whether or not Watson's really trusted or partially trusted or a little bit trusted. That's how we do it today. So every source of data, the person training Watson, the papa, decides whether or not that's good or bad.

Got it?

So I always, when people ask me these questions, I always go back to think of the child in kindergarten and you as the papa or the mama. That's how we do it with Watson, that whole training process type thing. Got it? Does that answer your question? Kind of? The other way around. I think medicine is still a prehistoric— I don't want to say it— in the beginning stage. I mean, we know a lot about physical phases and physical developments, but the influence of environment, of mental state on sickness, on development of sicknesses, we know nothing about it. And the possibility of big data opens a bit of a glance toward a new future. So I think it's the only way to go out through. We are finally today, we have computers that can take all that extra data, environment, everything like that, phases of the moon. Is the phase of the moon relevant to when people get sick? Who could do that type of study? You can now. So we're now at that point where we can do that evaluation and actually look at real, the full picture of healthcare versus allowing these people who have very narrow worlds making all these decisions. We have software now that can do that. So yeah, we're leaving the medieval days of— if you want to look at it like that— monasteries, right? So we're as advanced as we think we are, we're actually just, just crawling, trying to stand up, really. Because we all know we're connected, as we were talking about today. We all know what's happening in the environment. We all, you know, what is this carpet? This is a brand new carpet. You know there's something's coming up in the air that we don't know, but you know there's something coming up. Any more questions? These are great questions. I could keep going. We also have guests who want to talk to you and show you a demo or something, but I could keep going. Is there anything else, or— there's a lot. Do you guys want to take a 5-minute break? Let's take a 5-minute break and then we'll come back. Yeah, I'll show you guys the bathroom. Yes, it's off the hall to the left.

Alcohol to the left.

Good afternoon.

Hello. Hi.

Go ahead and I'll take the things down. I can actually take that down if you want me to. I can ask them to take it down. Thank you.