ATA 24 Wilnona Marie and Jade Dee

Welcome to Author to Author. This is Author to Author. I'm Tim Trott. The author spotlight this time is on Atlanta writer Wilnona Marie. She started writing very young and has written quite a few books, many with one or more co-authors. In a moment, we'll meet Wilnona Marie and her writing partner, Jade Dee. Author to Author is a presentation of CyberChute Hosting, where you should host your author website. Like you, I'm an author. I started CyberShoot Website Hosting many years ago, so let me be blunt. Cheap hosting might look good until you start adding up the real cost— daily backups, the credibility of you@yourwebsite.com email, SSL security— and suddenly that deal isn't really a deal. CyberShoot Hosting offers you an honest author package for $10 a month. That's it. No but extra costs. Need help with WordPress? I wrote the book. No, really. Questions? You get answers from a human, not a robot. I'll help you build your author home at cybershoot.com. Let's create something together. I'll let you two introduce yourselves.

Well, I'm Winona Marie. I'm one half of the And I Thought Ladies, because we are now just about 2 people. I've been writing— I've been a published author since I was 10 years old.

Wow.

A few years in— amount of years in— Jade joined me. Jade, do you want to tell the audience about you, or—

Yeah, I'm Jade. I'm Winona's best friend. And let's see, Winona dragged me into writing Kicking and Screaming roughly 10 years ago. Yeah, when she decided she was going to write her last book. And here we are 10 years later.

Ooh, we actually got through that without hearing the interesting story.

Oh, the story is coming later, y'all. The story is coming later, but I thought I would keep it succinct right now.

That works for me. You've answered the question when you first got into writing, but what was the moment that you decided to actually take it to the mat and publish?

When I was 7, a teacher told me that I was an amazing writer. And before that, I had goals of being a neurosurgeon. Those goals were birthed at 5 years old. Came home, told my parents I was going to be a neurosurgeon. I was in love with anatomy and the brain. And then at 7, someone told me I was amazing at writing. And then that was it. I was like, I'm going to get published.

What was your first published book? And is it in— was it in one of the genres that you work in now, or was it something totally different?

Well, it was. You got a poem published, right? I got a poem published.

And Jade, what was your first one?

Oh, my first book was, uh, And I Thought Divorce Was Bad with Other Life Lessons, because Winona dragged me into it again kicking and screaming because she said she was gonna give up writing, you know, get a real job and be a career lady. And I said, well, just return to your roots, return to, to being a poet. And she was like, thanks, bestie, you want me to be broke? And I said, well, no, I want you to— and she's like, well, what would I even call this book? And I said, And I Thought Divorce Was Bad. Oh, guess what happened, y'all? It kickstarted her career, and 10 years later, I'm still telling the story. So be careful, y'all, of what you say with your best friends, because they might win forever.

Did Jane— do you publish on your own or just, just in combination with Winona?

Oh, just in combination with Winona, because again, she dragged me into this kicking and screaming.

Well, actually, the Famous House Cleaners Originally was Jade's first piece of fiction. And when we picked up a literary agent, the agent was interested in that being an actual full-fledged novel. So, Jade's first piece of literature got like that legit traditional credit of being one of— being a novel. And then we are in something like a 3-book deal.

Wow. So, how many books have you written so far, Winona?

Oh Lord, have mercy.

Well, the thing is that she's restarting some series. So she had some and then she went and took them down and kind of restarted. So like, if we add it all together, it's about 50 books, right? 50?

Good grief.

Yeah, something like that. So there's 20-some with, um, the ladies, the group ladies, and then there's just us. So altogether that's 20-some. And then of the series that I started writing when I was 12 that actually started making me money As an author, there was over 50-some of those stories, but none of them were really published. I think only about 3 of them were published.

Just offhand, I'm going to guess that it's Winona that starts the projects. Is that accurate? Or Jade, do you get involved in instigating at any point?

Well, I think it is Winona. She comes up with some points, but also we talk a lot. She's my best friend, right? And so I want to say that sometimes she'll have an idea and we'll work choppy back, but The Famous Housecleaners was actually my idea. And then the literary agent wanted it to be a mystery, and I said, well, then I'll make it a cozy mystery, which was completely out of all of our genres. And so, yeah, The Famous Housecleaners is like us. I think this is a me-led book.

It is a you-led book. I was going to say the most interesting part, I think, is This is the first time I've jumped into someone else's story, you know, having someone else jump into mine. Because normally I build a world and then I'll collaborate, or— Yeah, pretty much. Or I'll come up with the theme and then we'll all collaborate. But this is the first time where Jada come up with the voices, she had come up with the characters, she had come up with the ideas, and then she asked me to collaborate. I'm gonna not lie, it's a lot harder to do it that way for me than it is to be To have someone come into my world, wow, her world is different. Her comedy is different, her timing is different, it's all different.

But the best part is the mystery, and Willow's been writing mysteries since she was 12. And so the second book, All Bleached Up, I said, listen, I need more plot. This needs to be plot. And she was like, set me free, why don't you? Here we go. So yeah, the second book is a little bit of a ride. Like, I forget, and I start reading the top, I'm like, what happened? I'm like, of course you know what happened. You wrote the dang book. You know what happened.

I'm not going to lie. In All Bleached Up, I had so much fun. I enjoyed it. There are plot twists.

Oh my God, I love it. I mean, it's a slow read. It's a slow read, but as you can see from some of the reviews that we have on All Bleached Up, yeah, there's some stuff that happens in there.

You mentioned the word plot. Are you— you've heard the terms plotter and planner, I'm sure, which— or pantser. Which are you, plotter or pantser? Do you plan ahead, or you just dive in and see where it takes you?

So, for me, I have been a pantser almost all of my life. And yes, those 50-some books, those actually were all pantser books, but they all intertwine, and they all build off of each other, and they all had characters and plots that twist, that came back. So, I kept the whole world in my head. But I'm a little older now, because I'm not 12 anymore, so I have other things to do. So now I am a plotter.

Well, yeah, I think this is like the first book that we ever had to sit down. I actually, actually had to buy whiteboards, which is something that like we thought we were never gonna have to do. But yeah, we have whiteboards and characters' names and all kinds of stuff written down. But still, I feel like this story takes you where it takes you, right? So you'll be like, oh yeah, I'm just gonna follow this plot, and then the characters be like, nah, bro, we're not doing it.

How does— how long does it usually take you from first draft to, to a published book? Do you work on just one at a time? I imagine you can't really work on more than one at a time, but there's probably several projects at several stages along the way. But, you know, how long does the total process take? Is it— we're talking weeks, months, years? What?

So at least 6 weeks.

The Famous House Cleaners was rewritten and expanded to twice its size in 6 weeks. Edited and everything. The Famous House Cleaners 2 took 12 weeks. Famous House Cleaners 3 is halfway done. Um, so normally when I pick up a project, I just decide on the project and I spend the next somewhere between 13 hours to 6 to 8 weeks, and then I'm done.

Why did you choose to publish on Amazon and not one of the others, Barnes Noble or one of the others?

So they are available everywhere. We chose to— some of our books for Amazon because, I mean, let's be honest, it's easier. The Famous House Cleaners we published off of Draft2Digital, so it gave us a little bit more leeway into things. But Amazon is like an easier upload, right? Because Barnes Noble can be tricky. We do have a couple of books on Barnes Noble, like just supposed to be Barnes Noble, and it was a little trickier than Amazon. But so they're good, you know, the pros and cons to all of it, especially being an indie author and self-published. You, um, sometimes you have to just go with what—

Sometimes one calls for one or the other. I can see that. I can see the reason for that strategy. How do you approach marketing, and how do you advertise? Do you use social media? I'm guessing social media is a big part of what you do.

Yes, really social media, but also Winona does a really great job at PR, right? She pitches a lot of people, and we also have podcasts. Well, you want to talk about PR a little bit?

Okay, so I accidentally fell into PR by mistake because one of our first co-authors said that, oh, there's no way we could ever have a national tour. So I learned how to do a pitch letter, which was a lot like a query letter. And then I found the email addresses for many, many, many, many producers and shows, and we did 125 interviews in the first 30 days. Um, that actually ended us up on, uh, London television. Well, it was for the whole UK, but we went— ended up on TV in London, and that became a US correspondent's job for the UK television show. So, um, yeah, PR has been a huge help. And then Jade does this really cool thing that I love because we were on tour 26 weeks out of the year for 5 years. So we were around the nation and then in different countries, mostly for press tours. And Jade figured out that if you go down to the bar or hang out at a restaurant, you can move books much faster.

So we do in-person sales a lot.

It was interesting when I talked about social media and immediately Will Nona's head goes like this. So I knew you guys team up and operate from different directions. What feedback from readers has surprised you most or stuck with you through the process?

Shall we tell the sad story?

Let's tell a happy story first and then a sad story. So the happy story is, um, we have flashed up If Only I Were Me, right? So that was— that's a memoir in verse, If Only I Were Me, because all of our fans were telling us, oh, you're so great, you know, we love your books, you all are such great people, and, and just like all these accolades and all this stuff. And we were not actually that fabulous, you know, like, uh, if only— So If Only I Were Me Was written for like us actually discovering that maybe we are these people that people think we are. Like we, we've earned these accolades. We've done the work. We've done this, and that is what has helped us. That helped us, I think, get rid of imposter syndrome. Although Nola doesn't normally have imposter syndrome. She just be like, "Yes, I was born to be amazing." But some of us, some of us, they were like, "Oh, I've been." I'm going to sit at home with my cat.

Well, I have to say, during the time of If Only I Were Me, I was having a little imposter syndrome, mostly because Jade kept getting recognized everywhere and I was not. People literally would like pass drinks across me and be like, where's Willona?

Oh, that was hilarious.

And while Jade signed autographs.

That was hilarious. And then I'd be like, she's right here. Oh, she looks different in person. I was like, I don't know how to feel about that.

Like, yeah, I'm, uh, I'm trying real hard not to be like, come on, y'all.

I think, I think that people think we're taller than we are, and we're really short people.

We are, we're very short. Um, he did ask about reader feedback.

Oh yeah.

I am gonna tell, well, one funny story and then one sad—

No, we already told the funny story. It's the sad story now. We told people we could tell another funny story to bring up Bring the mood up, right?

Yes.

So we— our first, like, book that was a hit, And I Thought Divorce Was Bad, uh, it was about emotional abuse. And sometimes we would do poetry readings and things, and people would come to us. Actually, no, this person came to us in a hotel, and she just wanted to let us know that she wished the book was around when her mom was alive because she probably might have still been alive day, um, she had seen her mother get beat to death. Yeah, by her significant other. And, um, she was just like, if she could just have maybe read some of the, the poetry, she might have been able to understand what kind of relationship she was in. We were— we have a happy—

That was like one of those saddest ones when she was talking about. She was like a child, and she can starkly remember the ambulance and the police coming and her mom being pulled out on a stretcher with a white sheet over her.

Wow.

And so she was very, very happy that we wrote— very happy that we addressed emotional abuse and what that can look like. Because it's something that people don't tell you about, or they just say, well, if he's not hitting you or your significant other isn't hitting you, then it's not. really a thing, but it is. And it normally starts with the— with emotional and then financial and then physical.

Um, on the other hand, we did have a person that read the books and she recognized she was in an abusive relationship and she left.

Yeah.

And now she's the head of a multi-million dollar corporation. She's like, I would have never found my own confidence and ability to do something like that If I hadn't read your books. Now the funny story. So recently someone read The Famous Housecleaners and they were just talking about how Big Bertha is truly a thing because they remember the Kirby vacuum.

You know that 1960s Kirby vacuum that your grandmama had and it was like the worst thing? Oh, and they said how spectacularly these girls cannot clean.

Yeah.

What has been your biggest challenge as a self-published author on Amazon?

I think it's what everybody deals with, right, is being seen, is getting your name out there, right? Because nobody knows who you are and to trust your book. Why should I? Actually, let's be honest.

Why should I care?

To convince people, but to get that visibility, we do a lot of interviews, but also we do a lot of in-person events. We do craft shows, we do things to get us out in different places so people can start to have a little bit of brand recognition. So what we're aiming to be is the RC of cola, not Coke or cola, but RC.

Do you, do you, uh, do personal appearances at bookstores? Do you find it easy to get bookstores to feature you, or you do other events? How, what, what What, what's your mode?

Well, we do a lot of other events. I actually love festivals, y'all, because I like, I like music. Um, I like, I like music, and they serve really good drinks there. So I do a lot of vending tents there, like a lot of vendor interactions. I, I like to go to like the car shows. Actually, let me, let me just be honest. I, I like, I like to go to like the The beer and bourbon shows, that's where I get my tables a lot. And barbecue places. Like, if there's gonna be a barbecue show, I'm trying to absolutely have a spot there as a vendor to get my books out in the world, because I'm trying to eat barbecue and drink a beer.

So it kind of works well for us because on brand, we do have a cocktail recipe poetry book. So instead of having chapters, we have cocktail recipes. And so it works well for us to be at the bourbon— the barbecue, bourbon, and beer festivals, or the tequila and taco festivals because we have, you know, recipes for all of them. And that is one of the great things about having a very odd backlist, because we can be at many places.

And it's really cool because we did meet— like, you meet different people, different vendors, different people that are set up there. It was really cool because we got to sit next to, uh, we sat up next to a person that made homemade Carp Refresh. And let me explain, y'all, and And the Famous House Cleaners, these girls find, find Carpet Fresh and they like to put down 2 boxes per room. And so it's really fun, but it's so crafty. She, she's actually working with us to get our, get our own line of Carpet Fresh because we thought it would just be hilarious. The, the Famous House Cleaners Carpet Fresh, because they use so much Carpet Fresh in these books. Yeah, so much.

One time they used 6 boxes in one bedroom. And then, um, then they thought it would freshen the air, so they threw it up in the air.

And then they, they put it in the toilet. Like, it's just— they have obsession with Carpet Fresh.

So yeah, a famous house cleaner, Carpet Fresh, is on its way. That I love.

And we would have never got that if we hadn't set up at some random festival.

So the other thing that I, I thoroughly enjoy is, uh, going to the Frankfurt Book Fair and the London Book Fair.

Yeah, that's so fun. Because that's amazing.

And the people you meet, the people you meet are just insane. And then actually, that's how we landed our literary agent in the first place.

Absolutely.

You've been around the barn a few times. What is one mistake that you see a lot of independent authors make that from your experience you would advise?

I wrote it and so they will come. I built it and they will come. Who coming? Can they see?

Can you see?

Can they even see you behind, behind all these big buildings? You got like a little small shop. Who coming? You gotta put up a sign or something. Sorry.

That's the expression I've heard is your book is done, now you've reached the halfway point, now the real work begins. That, that's what a lot of authors don't, don't actually find until they hit that, hit that roadblock.

Yes, and that is that one mistake. Like, you didn't tell people that it was coming. Yeah, you have to. You have— you own a business. Like, yes, writing books is fun, but you want a writing career, and career indicates what? Money, right? Because you don't have a career and don't make money— like, no one views that as a career. So, well, maybe they do if you're a philanthropist, that's different. But normally a writing career, so you're— that's a business. You own a small business now. Congratulations. So now you have to tell people about it. You should have been telling people about it like, I don't know, a month before it came out because you want people to show up. Hey, like, hey, my grand opening of my book. My book drops on Wednesday or whatever. Please let them know so your friends can support you. Other people can support you. They can tell people. Word of mouth is great, y'all. But if you don't open your mouth to say words, there's no word of mouth.

I find that a lot of people always say my book is for everyone in all genres, which is probably true. It probably is for everyone.

Yeah, everybody's into the barbecue, bacon, and poetry. Yeah, that's one genre.

Hey, I am with that. I love that genre. I'm not gonna lie. That would be the best, right? I feel like I should just be like, yes, I, I can have a sandwich in one hand and, and the bourbon in the other hand and then be like, oh wait, I have a, I have a book. Just, just grab, just grab one of them cards out my pocket. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yep, yep.

Oh my goodness, that's another thing people like always forget is that there are street teams in warm markets. Like expanding your warm market, your warm market is so much bigger than you think it is. Oh my word, it's huge. But we do a course on that.

What is your secret?

Oh, so the warm market— like, this is one of the things that we say to people. You go to your local grocery store, you probably see that person in the cashier. You've seen them for years, right? Years and years and years. And you know them, you're like, hey, how you doing, blah blah blah. And have you told that person you wrote a book? Because that person kind of already knows you. They've seen you for years or months or whatever, right? And they're like, oh. And so one time I actually went to the store, I told the person behind the bakery, yes, y'all, I love, I love baked goods. Uh, and so I have been going there. I was just talking to them, you know, being friendly. And then I said, oh yeah, I wrote a book and it's out. And they said, well, what book? I said, you know what, I'll bring you back a signed copy. I brought it back, the lady whacked one signed copy.

Oh my God.

And literally we sold like 20 books because everybody in the store was— she like was passing it around to everyone in the store and everyone was trying to save their spot in the book. And they were like, never mind, I'm just buying my own. So that is a warm market that maybe you haven't thought about. Or if that person that from the post office just keeps dropping off those, those big old boxes full of books, have you let them know what it is? Have you tried to give them a book? One market.

Oh my goodness. And then there's also the fact that, um, you can expand your brand. You are not just books. There are so many other things that you can do. Like, you can turn your entire brand into a lifestyle. Some days I get up and decide to dress head to toe in my own clothing line based off my books and pull my clothing line luggage— like, and pull the luggage based off my books. Like, just because You're, you're a brand now. You, you can do things, so many other things than just write books. Absolutely.

We've gotten a glimpse into what strategies work for you. Which, which marketing strategies have you tried and, and wound up abandoning? What didn't work?

Social media. I know, well, we're not really big on We don't put out a lot of ads.

No.

We do put out some ads, but we don't do a lot of paid ads. Sometimes that works for a lot of people that we know though, so we're not knocking it. We're not saying it doesn't work. It just doesn't work for us, but it does work for other people. And I have had— I've seen the success stories, and I've seen— I've taken classes on it. It just doesn't work for us. I guess it just doesn't roll with how we present, but That's one of the things that we, we do ads, but very rarely. Like, we pay for ads very rarely. Like, we'll boost a post or something every once in a while, but not, not like consistently like a lot of people do.

Um, I think one of the things that I found did not work well for me was social media, because I got a lot of clicks but not a lot of buys. But then someone told us about that early on in our career. They were like, yeah, social media is But sometimes it turns into divides. I'm delving into the TikTok realm. I shouldn't say delving into— I'm learning more about TikTok Live and stuff like that and TikTok Shop. We'll be delving into that soon. But for right now, I'm just kind of like studying and getting ourselves ready to delve into there. There was something else I was going to say, but my brain has lost all thought. So we're good. Yeah.

I've noticed that you talked about a podcast, but when I went to follow the link, it's actually It's actually on Facebook, so you're not totally opposed to social media. You're actually using it for your podcast.

No, no, we're not. We're not totally opposed to social media. What we're saying is in a way of transferring to sales, right? Like, interviews are great and we put them up and then all the authors get sales and people get sales, which we're very excited about. For us, just posting like, hey, we have a book, and doesn't normally work for us. But we— podcasting and other things like that. But I've There's actually people that post and boost their post and they get so many, so many sales. So we might just be doing it wrong. Y'all may not have taken the right class yet.

So true. Um, so our, our podcast, our main podcast, um, we do video as well, so that goes onto Facebook and YouTube. And then we have 4 podcasts. So there's, uh, the Anti-Thought There's Meet Hollywood Mondays, Writers Class, and The Ladies' Tale. And The Ladies' Tale one is an interesting one, but now it's more interviews than it was, uh, because it was a radio show of a script that we wrote and it was proof of concept for Hollywood. And then we were like, ooh, we need to do research. So we started interviewing people in Hollywood.

Yeah, that was really fun.

That's fun.

That's really fun.

We've got a list of some of your contacts, uh, as a super on, on the screen right now. And I'm leaving it up long enough for people to take it down because some of them are A little complex. You are on TikTok and it's @andithoughtladies@tiktok.com. I've got that on the screen. So you've also got— I've got the others that you sent me. So I'll leave those up there for a little while for people to see. Did you want to talk about some of the books? For example—

Okay. The Famous House Cleaners, the one that we've been alluding to this whole time. So The Famous House Cleaners was actually a brainchild of mine. Features Violet and Pete Peterson. Uh, they are sisters and they write an app, and then through a bank error, the bank loses all their money. Their $7.2 million, all the money that's not tied up. Let's just say it like that. They have other money, but it's tied up right now. So they lose all their money and they have to start cleaning houses to try to make payroll and pay bills and things like that. But they happen to be famous because they're women in tech, and they wrote an app called Life Poker that has really taken off. And so people know their faces, and then they have to clean houses and try to keep it a secret from everybody because, what, you're in tech but you clean houses?

I thought you were rich.

And then there's a murder that happens, and who else to blame but the house cleaners, right?

You had a follow-up to that called All Cleaned Up, which seems, seems like a natural, but I wouldn't have thought of it after that start.

So yeah, so all bleached up. These ladies are at— during their cleaning journey, they discover bleach, which is very bad for them because they really cannot clean, y'all. I'm telling you now, they can't. And it's hilarious, and I love writing. I like— that's the thing I look forward to, is making them clean so horribly that no one should pay them. But it's great because they're paying me, so they do. So— I'm sorry, it's just so funny. So But they're— they're— these ladies are still in a lot of trouble. Their house cleaner is still missing. Their personal house cleaner is still missing. Some more bodies drop, and people are— and they're trying to build a story for the paparazzi because they do have a hater that's always just trying to find anything that's wrong with them.

The most thing I like about the show, the story All Bleached Up, was first of all, I got to write and expand the universe.

Yes. Um, and she got to put in more plot, y'all. So yes. I mean, it's not a fast-paced book, but get ready, y'all, because at the end y'all are gonna—

At the end, it's kind of shocking. I think everyone who's read it's been like, oh my God, why?

And then they'd be like, why?

Why would you do this?

And what does the book say?

Exactly. So, um, the other thing is that I— this is a Misfit Guide. So we have different types of series, and the Misfit Guides are loosely based on our lives, and the Famous House Cleaners It's based on our life because we were on a reality TV show and, um, there was a bank error and we lost all our money and we still had to like fly to Spain and Greece and stuff. And, uh, so we had to clean houses to keep the money in the bank.

So this is really great because that's how we know how to make them spectacularly horrible cleaners.

Because we were good at cleaning.

We argued.

You touched on memoir there. You actually, you've got a wide variety of subjects and genres, even poetry and whatnot. But speaking of poetry, how do you do a memoir in verse? I have a hard time figuring that one out.

See, If Only I Were Me, well, it was, as I said before, that book is talking about, well, dealing with Imposter syndrome. That's us dealing with our imposter syndrome. And so we were just writing If Only I Were Me, and then we recognized it was like a memoir, us coming to terms with, uh, people actually want to hear what we're talking about. They— we have fans, they enjoy our podcast, they do all of these things, and how to live up to those expectations and to see that how far you've come, right? Because a lot of times when you're like in a business or you're doing stuff, you can only see where you need to be and you don't stop to recognize how far you've come. And so that book is basically us recognizing how far we've come, even though we wanted to expand and have all these other things that we wanted to do. It was like, wow, let me stop and appreciate. And I think in the beginning of that book, we have like a little dedication to all our fans that saw who we are and waited patiently until we caught up.

It actually goes by the title. So the first section is If, and that talks about all our doubts, and then Only, and then you keep on going. Like, I would identify. So like, a lot of times our books are like, And I Thought Being Grown Up Was Easy, and I Thought Divorce Was Bad, and I Thought I Did My Journey Alone. They all have different ways of telling it. One's a biscuit recipe, one's life lessons, One is a story that tells the story of the poetry. And so, like, by the end, you've read a story and you've read the poetry. So this one was different because we were like, let's talk about us. So we talked about us.

Tell me about Foreign Coffee. That, that title just, just gets me. I, I, all the others, I kind of figure out what's going on. Foreign Coffee throws me. What, what is that about? Tell me.

Oh, it's my turn!

I'm so excited though, because I did come up with that title.

Yeah, you did.

I did.

So, uh, this was— this was first a creative writing degree story.

Uh, I didn't—

yeah, secondly, um, it's about a widow that runs away to Greece to find love with her sister. With her sister to find love again.

Well, not find love again, she just runs away to get away from stuff, but then she finds love by accident.

And yeah, that one had a little bit of a me story in it because I did run away to Greece, and it was really fun.

I mean, so it's just this lady, she's discovering who she is after the death of her husband, and at the end, I think that it's a really— it's a satisfying story, I think.

Because you wrote the last sentence.

I did, and it was her first—

it was her first time that she ventured into actual prose.

Yeah, and it was the best. I wrote the last sentence. Everyone always talks about that last sentence, so I'm here for it. Yes.

One of my questions was, do real-life experiences find their way into your fiction? I think we answered that.

Yes. Yes, it does. It does. I mean, because— I mean, what is it, like a— that's like a sign, a little post. They're everywhere right now. They're like, I'm a writer, so Warning, this can— anything said can be used. And that's, I think, is the best way because you base it a little bit on reality. But some of it is not our story. Some of it are stories that we know or people that we've met along the way or people we've met in bars. Like, these are the— I think that brings that connectivity, that human touch to it, and not just You know, out of this world. I don't know what you're talking about. So I think that, that, that's what fiction really is, is one of those things that has a little bit of real life in it, and that's what helps us connect to the books.

So I think my favorite thing is that the Misfit Guide mystery— the Misfit Guides, if you see anything that says Misfit Guide, it's based on our life, right?

You mentioned that you have representation, or, or, um, the literary agent.

Yes, we, we have a Literary agent is working very hard.

How did that come about? Did the agent find you or you found the agent? I mean, a lot of independent authors, and I speak as one like that, ain't got no representation and no hopes of it are likely. So tell us, how did you stumble into that?

So we went to Frankfurt, Germany, which is the biggest book fair in the world. The Buchmesse is the biggest book fair in the world, and this is actually where we met our literary agent. And no, she was not our literary agent at first. So we went back, we've been going for years now, and eventually she said, you know what, you ladies have expanded your catalog, you show up at the bougie meets, you work really hard, I've been observing you for these years, and yeah, I definitely want you on my roster. Maybe you don't have the sales that we want, like the— well, we don't have like, you know, like the online sales or whatever that they wanted, but we do a lot of in-person sales. And she was like, but I know how hard you ladies work, and I've seen you guys, you ladies work a crowd, be there, show up, consistency. So yeah, I'm gonna represent you. So a lot of times, that's why we encourage people to— yeah, it might be a lot of money, but I'm saying get a booth with friends, do what you can, and try to go to one of these larger book fairs, which is like the Buchmesse Frankfurt or London. And yeah, I know it takes an investment, but I don't think we would have got a literary agent any other way.

These people that you meet are at the top of their game, so you are going to hang out with the best of the best and the cream of the crop of the publishing world. That includes the traditional publishing world around the world. That's 100 and some countries, and you're going to meet like the CEOs and people like them, and sometimes even foreign officials in government, you will meet them at like the Blooshmies or the London Book Festival. And this is your opportunity to have a chit-chat. I mean, when's the next time you're going to run into the CEO of Penguin Random House?

Or something like that.

In a hallway?

Because we did that. Yeah. And so the thing is that, that it's a significant investment, which we understand, but if you try to plan it a year out, you'll probably be able to save all the money that you need to and get there. And I mean, if you're already going, you might as well have a good time. Oh, I got a couple more days. Hang out, go to Paris, do something fun.

Thank you very much, the two of you, for being with us on Author to Author. Thank you for being here. Please share this video with your friends on social media. Be sure to click the like and subscribe buttons and click the bell so you'll know when to join us for the next chapter of Author to Author.