Ryan Lee fought his unfair dismissal alone through three courts over six years and won at the Court of Appeal. He was fired via WhatsApp in 2019, rejected settlement offers, and learned that documentation, patience, and refusing to sign anything you don't fully understand matter most when you can't afford a lawyer.
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Welcome to Author to Author. This is Author to Author, and I'm Tim Trott. In this chapter, I'll be speaking with Ryan Lee, and the book is Winning Without a Lawyer: How I Fought My Unfair Dismissal for 6 Years and Won. The genre is legal thriller, made famous by books like Resumed Innocent by Scott Turow or Blockbusters by John Grisham. Ryan Lee appears in silhouette by his request and uses his pen name. He assures me he is not under witness protection. As with most interviews on this podcast, I selected this author after reading the book. It is a true legal thriller, not a boring recitation of legal terms and strategies. In a moment, you'll see what I mean. Author to Author is presented by Cybershoot Hosting, the right place for your author website.
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Tell me what inspired you to write the book.
I wrote the book because I couldn't find one like it when I needed it most. After I was fired via WhatsApp at 8:46 PM, no warning, no reason, no lawyer, I felt completely alone. I had no guide, no map, no one to tell me what to expect. I wanted to create the resource I wish I had, a short, honest memoir about what it actually feels like to navigate the system alone. It's not a legal guide. It's just a real story from someone who lived it.
What happened that led you to your 6-year legal battle?
I was a high performer, a top salesperson. I asked questions. I held people accountable. I was fired via WhatsApp. At 8:46 PM in July 2019. And I was offered 3 mutual separation agreements. I refused to sign all of them. I took my case to the Industrial Court and I lost there. Then I took the case to the High Court and I lost again. Finally, I appealed alone to the Court of Appeal. No lawyer, no union, just me and my paper trail. After 6 years, I won unanimously. The book tells that story.
What was your biggest challenge you faced while representing yourself in court?
The biggest challenge was learning the rules while everyone else already knew them. I had to teach myself procedural law, filing deadlines, courtroom etiquette, Things lawyers spent years studying. I made mistakes, a lot of them. I had documents rejected, but I kept going. The hardest part wasn't the law itself, it was the loneliness of standing in the courtroom without anyone beside you.
Did you ever consider giving up? If so, what kept you going?
Well, more times than I can count. After losing twice, It would have been easier to just walk away. But I kept thinking, if I give up, their version of events becomes the official record. That I left voluntarily. That I agreed to the separation. But I couldn't live with that, so I kept going. One document, one refusal, one day at a time. The paper trail was my own way of saying, this is what really happened.
What surprised you most about the legal system as a self-represented litigant?
Well, I was surprised by how much the system assumes you already know the rules. There's no one to guide you. The deadlines are absolute. Procedures are unforgiving. But I also learned that the system can be navigated if you are patient, precise, and willing to document everything. The biggest surprise? The courts aren't infallible. Their decisions can be wrong, and most of the time they are wrong. And sometimes the only person who can correct them is you.
Were there any key moments when you realized you might actually win?
Yes, during the appeal hearing when the judges started asking questions that went straight to the heart of the matter. They didn't just accept the lower court's findings. They examined the timeline, the offers, and also the refusals. They asked, "On what legal basis does the court say you accepted the mutual separation when you refused and didn't sign on all three occasions?" Now, that question told me they were listening. It was the moment I felt the tide turn and I really had a chance to win.
What lessons from your experience do you hope that readers will take away from reading your book?
3 things. First, never sign anything you don't fully understand. Second, document everything, even the conversations that seem minor. Third, the system is slow, but it can be navigated if you're patient and prepared. The book isn't a legal guide. It's, it's just a reminder that individuals can survive complex systems if they are willing to keep showing up.
How did this journey change you personally and professionally?
Professionally, it cost me years of career momentum, but personally, it gave me something I didn't have before— certainty. I now know that I can survive things I never thought I could. I now know that I can stand alone and still win. The journey stripped away a lot of illusions. About loyalty, about fairness, about systems. But you also gave me a story I'm proud to tell.
What advice would you give to someone facing an unfair situation who can't afford legal representation?
Start documenting right now before you even think about lawyers or courts. Save screenshots, date everything, write down conversations. The paper trail is your voice when no one else is speaking. Speaking for you. And remember, you don't have to be perfect, you just have to be prepared. Don't let them rush you into signing anything. Take your time, ask questions, protect yourself because no one else will.
After publishing this book, what message would you like most readers to remember?
That it's possible, not guaranteed, but possible to survive even when the system is stacked against you. You don't need to be a lawyer. You don't need to be fearless. You just need to be willing to keep going one step at a time. The book is my way of saying, "I did it." And if you are in the middle of something similar, you can too.
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