Educational Roots: The Impact of Learning on Peer Group Moderation with Amy Scharff

Hello and welcome to Mastermind Mastery, the podcast for professionals who want to create and run successful peer advisory councils, or as we call them, PACs for short, or they're also known as peer groups or business mastermind groups. I'm your host, Tina Corner Stolz, founder of Elixir Council, where I've been in the industry running groups since 2005 and now help those like you with education, certification, and support wanting to do the same. At one time, I ran 10 groups, nearly 100 members, and sold my groups For a Good Multiple and recently released my second book, Your Seat at the Table: How to Create and Run Your Own Peer Advisory Councils, published by Forbes, and grateful to you that it's an Amazon bestseller. I invite you to join each week where we share strategies and techniques to successfully launch and become a master of running your PACTs. You'll hear insights, perspectives, do's and don'ts, learn from my and my guests' mistakes, successes, and get the inside track to key takeaways. Each time we have guest, we'll be having a bit of fun. So are you ready? Let's get going and dive into today's episode.

Well, hello listeners, and welcome everyone to another episode of Mastermind Mastery. I'm your host, Tina Corner Stolz, and we have a guest today, and it's actually a very special guest. So this is the daughter of my mentor. So I like to welcome Amy Scharf, and Amy is the daughter of Arthur which, and if any of you have read my book, you know that Arthur was a big inspiration and a mentor in my life. And so we'll try not to get sniffly here, right? But Amy and I were just talking and that we're going to do a whole episode devoted to all of his words of wisdom about moderating. Today we're going to talk about, I think, a very unique topic. So first, Amy, welcome to the show.

Thank you, Tina.

Yeah, happy to be here. Yeah, of course. And Amy is based in St. Louis and has been running groups since 2015. So Amy, will you tell our audience the type of groups that you run today?

Sure. Currently I run executive peer groups, and two of them are C-suite and VP executives mostly. A few presidents here and there and a couple of director levels, but for the most part, just the C-suite and VP level. And one of them is presidents and CEOs.

Excellent.

Yes.

And I know you've kind of been in the concept a little bit earlier than 2015. And this is a little bit of what we're going to talk about today. So the episode today is based on really how education formal education and how it can impact how you moderate groups. And Amy's going to really share some of her insights and how that had impacted her journey as to running groups today. And I know from those of you listening, you're going to walk away with some aha moments. You don't have to have gone and gotten a graduate degree and a doctorate, et cetera, like that to have this episode resonate with you. So, Amy, how did this kind of all start prior to 2015 when you were doing groups back in the early '90s or something that were sort of similar and kind of your path to where you are today?

Well, so just as a precursor to this, my father was one of the early gurus of group dynamics through another organization. So I sort of learned at his knee about this process. And in my 20s, in my early 20s, I was running leadership groups for teens from around the world with this structure in mind. I mean, with the structure that my father had taught me very early. And then I ran an executive peer group for a family business forum through Southern Illinois University. And I brought this structure of running peer groups into my classrooms when I became a teacher mid-career. So I've done, I've done a bunch of stuff that led up to this as my career. Um, but I, um, I didn't think originally that I was going to go into this as a career. So I just used it, you know, as a tool.

I don't know that any of us actually think that this is what we're going to do. And then you just, you end up doing it, right? So tell us about how it is that you went to grad school, et cetera, and and start making some connections for us about the learnings there in education and how it relates to peer groups.

Gotcha. I was in business and marketing for 17 or 18 years, and I was the marketing director at the time of an arts organization in town here. And one of my favorite parts of the job was walking around to the classrooms and taking pictures for the publicity and their program guides. And when my father sold my grandfather's business, which was no longer my grandfather's, I realized, oh, that's not going to be my career anymore. So I thought, okay, here I am getting marketing experience for my family business, and then the family business wasn't there. What do I really want to do? And so with 17 or 18 years of business experience behind me, I realized I wanted to be a teacher. I— my most inspired moments in my job as marketing director were when I was in those classrooms watching learning taking place and watching the, the instructors kind of give enough information and enough guidance to the students adult and children students, I mean, all ages at this place, that the students got inspired to take on that passion that the instructor had, and then they would create their own version of that art. And it was, I mean, it was a place that had all sorts of different kinds of arts classes. It was from culinary to ballet. I mean, it was everything, theater, circus arts. It was fun. But I was the— I was the, um, picture taker. Um, I was a photographer for, okay. And that's how I got into it.

And then, so here you are, you're, let's, let's start like here you are in 2015 and '16 and '17 and you're running groups. So what happened when the light bulb went off about what you've learned in education and how that started to apply in actually moderating?

It happened— sorry, it happened a lot longer ago than when I was running my executive peer groups. Because what I did with my master's in teaching was I took it to the classroom first. And in the classroom, I used the moderator training that my father had trained me into in the classroom. So I didn't even think about applying it to my own executive peer groups because I didn't have any yet. But I was applying it to the classroom. I applied it to executives before that. I applied it to these teenagers in Switzerland at this leadership camp a long time before that. So once I was running these peer groups for my dad's company, flashing forward past my teaching career, then I started to realize, okay, these executives who are really smart and really experts in their fields, they're very much like my students. They're very much like they're here to learn. Right. That's why they get into those groups. And so just recognizing in the first place that as a moderator, I'm there for the same reason that I went back to school to become a teacher is really a helpful paradigm for me.

It is.

Recognizing that I'm The way that I was a teacher is the same way that I'm a moderator, which is I want to give you enough structure and enough safety to sort of fill your brain with what you need to learn and grow.

Excellent analogy. So we go back, and when you're in the classroom and you're starting to utilize some of these techniques your dad had taught you and you saw, Can you give an example? Because I'm trying to visualize I'm in a classroom of teenagers or et cetera. So what kind of are you doing that you're starting to utilize some of, some of those techniques? Just an example so the audience can kind of get a visual and a picture.

Yeah, here's a, here's a good example. Um, so one of the things that I learned when I was in grad school is how crucial modeling is in education. And you hear the word modeling, you think role model, right? And it's the same idea. Whether or not I'm aware of how people are looking at me, the truth is that they're getting something from the messages I send unconsciously or consciously, but maybe not verbally. So I'm modeling for others as they observe me, inadvertently or not. So if I'm deliberate about that modeling, then I can give them more. I can give my students or my members more by being deliberate about how I model. So for example, the structure that I use to moderate my groups is very, as you know, very strong and flexible. It's a very—

And I bet everybody right now is going, what? How can that both be the case? But they can coexist.

Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, imagine a building that is earthquake-proof, right? It's got to be really strong and really flexible. So that's what the structure that I learned from an early age is. It's a great solid structure that is customizable in the moment, which is again, how I ran my classrooms as well. Yeah. What I've noticed is that when I say what I'm doing to my groups, especially to the new members, I'll say, here's what I'm doing and here's why I'm doing it. And even for the former members who've been there for 7, 8, 9 years, whatever, a lot of them recognize it in a new way. For that moment. And they'll take it back to their meetings at work, or they'll take it back to their dinners at home with their teenagers or their grown kids or whatever, their spouses. So just that modeling, when I'm deliberate about saying, okay, here's what I'm doing and why I'm doing it, whether or not they're really consciously tuned into it, which usually they are because they're pretty present in those meetings, They will pick and choose what they like of it and what they can use in their outside-the-room lives. Absolutely.

They take it into their own environment. I want to just emphasize something that I think a lot of new moderators don't understand initially, which is something you said a little bit ago about your modeling, and that it's beyond verbal. It is the seeing you. It's your nonverbal, noncommunicative clues and how important that is when you're moderating that it's both. Because you can't sit there like a bump on a log and not have communication in other formats. Because you're actually communicating, but it's usually negative if you're not conscious of the signals you're sending. Right. And it's— and to actually be intentional on the signals you're sending as well. And I also want to underscore the other thing you just said. We, as I see new people coming into the industry and as they start and whether they take over a group that somebody has been running before or it's brand new, The explaining of the why, like, this is why we do this. This is why I do this. So people can understand there's intention and there's also this method to running a meeting. And so I'm so glad you brought those two points up because they're just nuances that really, really matter. Right?

Yeah. And I probably do them in my sleep now. I'm sure I wake up from dreams having moderated lots of dreams. But yeah, those are really important to think through when I'm planning. I mean, going back to my curriculum planning when I was a teacher, it's the same idea. Like, I'm going to plan for how I deliver the content And sometimes the content isn't even— usually, actually, the content isn't even mine. Content is whatever the group brings in. Right.

Yes, exactly.

But I do plan the delivery system.

So let's build on this. When you look back, what do you think has been the biggest influence that education has made on you in running groups? So we've heard kind of the reverse. You know, how it happened when you were working with the teenagers, et cetera. And so now, as you flip it, you know, what has, has been evident to you that you've noticed?

Um, we might not have time for everything, right? Um, so the, the aspect of curriculum design that I learned in grad school was incredibly helpful in creating more solid peer groups for executives. But I'm not going to get into curriculum design in this podcast, I don't think, right?

I mean, well, and it's interesting because I think nobody would have made that connection because I think some people think the agenda is the agenda is the agenda and whatever, what they might be thinking. So that could be great for another podcast. But maybe just high level, what does that mean though when you think about the curriculum and how it really helped you with the meeting?

Well, so one of the things that I— that was sort of educationally beaten into my head when I was in grad school about curriculum design, which was totally appropriate, um, there for the beating, um, was that you kind of begin with the end in mind. Thank you, Stephen Cousin. Um, you know, you you think about what are the goals that I want the students to walk away with. And that's, that's in line with my father's version of take-home value, right? You, you use the same thing. What can you, what can my leadership council groups walk away with after the meeting that they can use or that they can think about more and grow from? Um, so just that, that one aspect of curriculum design where I think ahead What do I want them to take away? And then on the fly too, in this flexible, strong structure of running the meetings, if I hear something content-wise that I realize everybody tunes into and, you know, sometimes somebody will say one sentence and everybody will take their pens and write it down, you know, I recognize those signals as, okay, this one has extra value maybe, or this one isn't just folded into the bigger picture. This is something that they're going to want to take home with them. How can I facilitate the best version of this for them? So I'm doing this on the fly as well. And that is my curriculum design backbone here. So that's one thing. Another thing from grad school is, well, and from just learning to be a teacher in general, I mean, you know, I was working with teenagers, so you've got to make the content as relevant as possible or else you're going to lose them.

Yeah.

And, um, man, we, we saw that, um, during the pandemic with online school. I mean, it has to be really something that they're already focused on in order to get their attention and keep it and keep it. Yes. And thank goodness that is not how my executives are. They are much more able to concentrate than teenagers. But making the content relevant to them is really important. So when I go and study a topic that has come up maybe over and over in some meetings or even just once that I didn't know about that I want to go study so that I learn about it, that kind of bringing what's relevant into the room as I'm moderating is straight out of school to become a teacher, same kind of stuff. And it's right. I mean, I think a lot of moderators that are listening probably know that already, right? I mean, everybody's talking about AI, for example. That's going to be a hot topic right now. And I bring in people that want to talk about this stuff and educate my members, perhaps. But even more than that, on sort of a microscopic level, I'm keeping my feelers out for what they're talking about so that what I facilitate and bring into the room is relevant and timely.

Right. Relevant and timely. And relevant for the majority of them in the room versus like one member versus everybody else, et cetera. Because that's always a challenge. You want something relevant for everyone, right?

Yes. And that brings me to another piece of another answer to your question of how becoming a teacher has informed my moderating. And that is that regardless of how personal or how universal one of the topics is. As a teacher, I was always looking for the common thread between my students in order to make the content of the class more relevant to them, like I was saying. And so I'm listening in my meetings that I moderate with my executives. I'm listening for their threads where I can take something that's very personal that's being said about a business or whatever and tie it into the universal. And that too, it makes all the content more relevant. Right.

And I also— Oh, go ahead. No, say what you're going to say and then I'll I'm just going to say it makes all of us feel a little less alone.

If I reveal something personal, whether it's about my business or about some other aspect of my life, and then everybody can find a way to relate to it, it makes us all more bonded.

It also shows you're listening, right? And you're making the effort at a whole nother level to weave that in for everybody versus what I call kind of a— it's easier to do at a high level, but to weave it, like you said, very specifically to each one, like how you see it helping each one while it could be different on the same kind of topic, just shows genuine interest and care and relationship with your with your members as well. Absolutely. Yeah. So it's a great point. So as we kind of come kind of full circle here and to wrap up, because we could talk a lot, a lot, and I think there's lots of good topics in here for having you back, and we definitely want to do that. As you think about our listeners and what kind of piece of advice would you love to give them about moderating, kind of what you've learned in regards to your teaching and how that carries in, and how can they do something similar to up their game in moderating? Because these are really, in many ways, some of it people could think, well, they're kind of standard skill sets. But I don't think so. I think these are advanced skill sets in moderating. And so what would you like to impart on our audience today, Amy?

Is this that— what are your last words of wisdom that you— because I prepared for this.

Excellent. OK. You're on.

Yeah, one of my favorite things to point out to friends, members, anyone in the world actually, is that strength and vulnerability are not opposites in any way. And this sort of goes back to that, the strong and flexible structure. It's the same kind of thing. Strength and vulnerability go together. They go hand in hand. And it takes strength to be truly vulnerable. It takes vulnerability to be truly strong. So here's my pebble. I have a pebble sitting here on my desk from my father. Oh, yeah.

Excellent.

If you're running peer groups and even if you are in them, I would encourage you to show your vulnerability and welcome others' vulnerability by not judging them for what they may reveal. And it'll make the group stronger, and it will make everyone in it stronger as well.

Excellent. So for our audience, if you're not familiar with the pebble, um, I, I talk about this in my book, that if anybody's ever interested, I am willing to send you a pebble. But Amy, why don't you do the honors of explaining the pebble?

So my father, um, Well, the original version of the pebble was a gem. You know when you're at a cocktail party and you wanna, you're having a great conversation and you grab a cocktail napkin and you write something down on it because it was such a good line or it was such a good idea. Just had this thing pop into your head. And you'd go home, he would go home with these gems in his pocket, but they were all on cocktail napkins. So he decided to, he decided to hold pebbles in his pockets. He would go to the museum shops and buy buckets full from them, and he would walk around every day with pebbles in his pockets in case somebody gave him a really good idea or in case he gave somebody else a really good idea. Usually, I think he would give the pebble to them if they gave him a good gem, a good idea. And it doesn't have to be something verbatim out of somebody else's mouth. In fact, usually it's something that somebody says that he then synthesizes into his experience and makes it into his own. He's inspired by what somebody else says.

Right.

And then he comes up with this good idea. So he would hand a pebble to just about anybody who influenced him in any sort of positive way, which was just about everybody. So a lot of people know about my dad's pebbles. And the reason that he changed it from gems to pebbles at some point was that he was studying Taoism for the sake of moderating. And he loves the idea that he loved, I should say, he's not with us any longer, but he loved the idea that a journey of a single step, I mean, a journey of 1,000 miles begins with a single step. And what we do with these pebbles is we pave our leadership paths. And we learn and grow one pebble at a time. Yeah.

Well said. What a great way to wrap up this episode. So, so many lessons for all of you out there. I encourage you to listen again so you don't miss one. Um, and Amy, if someone wants to reach out to you, how can they best get a hold of you?

Well, my website has a, um, a contact form, and my website is leadershipcouncilstl.com. So it's leadership and C-O-U-N-C-I-L, STL as in St. Louis,.com. Excellent. Yeah, and you can also reach me at the, the email info@ Same, same domain.

Excellent. Amy, thank you. Always a pleasure. So good to see you. Happy New Year. Yeah, and thanks for another episode. And all of you listeners out there, we appreciate the time you've spent with us. And until next week, go make it happen.

Hey, moderators of groups, thank you so much for listening to today's podcast. To get access To today's show notes and exclusive content and resources, visit TinaCornerStolz.com/podcast or LXcounsel.com, where you can also become part of an exclusive online community, attend our academy, or get free resources, templates, checklists, and more. And you can even contact me there as well. So if this episode resonated with you and you know know someone who can also benefit from listening, please share with them by taking a screenshot and even posting on your social media. I also love reviews and appreciate hearing from each of you, those actually doing this wonderful work. Please tune in next week for another episode of Mastermind Mastery. And I'll close by sharing something my mentor did after every learning moment. He shared a shiny pebble from his pocket with anyone he passed knowledge to and asked them to forward that pebble knowledge on. So now I encourage you to go pass on a pebble, the takeaways you learned today, to either your existing groups or fellow peers. Now go make it a great one.