PaC’s for Internal Clients with George Sandmann

Hello and welcome to Mastermind Mastery, the podcast for professionals who want to create and run successful peer advisory councils, or as we call them, PACs for short, or they're also known as peer groups or business mastermind groups. I'm your host, Tina Corner Stolz, founder of Elixir Council, where I've been in the industry running groups since 2005 and now help those like you with education, certification, and support wanting to do the same. At one time, I ran 10 groups, nearly 100 members, and sold my groups For a Good Multiple and recently released my second book, Your Seat at the Table: How to Create and Run Your Own Peer Advisory Councils, published by Forbes, and grateful to you that it's an Amazon bestseller. I invite you to join each week where we share strategies and techniques to successfully launch and become a master of running your PACTs. You'll hear insights, perspectives, do's and don'ts, learn from my and my guests' mistakes, successes, and get the inside track to key takeaways. Each time we have guest, we'll be having a bit of fun.

So are you ready?

Let's get going and dive into today's episode. Hello everyone, it's Tina here. We have a special event coming up in November in St. Petersburg, Florida. It's the first ever national open conference for anyone wanting to run and already running peer groups or mastermind groups. Join us for 2 days, VIP reception with the keynote speakers, and a full day of upping your game and running groups with peers like you who are experienced or just want to get more knowledge before starting their journey and creating their first group. This conference is for you if: 1, you're already running groups and you want to be better, or you want to be the best. You want to learn from other experienced moderators and get inside tips to the latest meeting techniques. Or 2, if you're thinking about creating and running groups and want all the knowledge on how to do it right and learn from veterans, then this conference is for you. But time's running out. There's only a few VIP tickets available and the conference has limited capacity. So as soon as we hit it, we're going to have to close registration. So join us in downtown St. Pete, November 9th through the 11th. It's the best self-development gift you can give yourself. And don't you want to be the best at running groups? See you in November. And the song is— let everybody know who it is.

It's Eminence Front by The Who.

There you go. So now everybody knows.

Fantastic song and it goes on for quite a while.

It does.

So what's the story behind it? Why'd you pick this song? So tell us.

So, you know, if you think about that, that's actually our, that's Growth Drive's song. You know, if we, we have a theme song and we'll let, we are gonna, we have some work in progress that'll be loaded on the website and What I like about this song is if you think about starting a business, right? When you start a business, you're all alone. And let's think about the orchestration in the beginning of the song. You're starting all alone and it is very simple and you're moving along and you start adding people, you start building a team, you start gathering stakeholders, customers, and it starts building up and building up into a crescendo. And, and by the way, you know, if you listen to, to the way Pete plays the guitar, you know, he's doing things with the guitar just in the intro that most guitarists, well, frankly can't do at all and save for their, you know, for their big spot in the song. And then when you get into the words, you know, and so let's pause that idea. And when you get into the words, listen to the lyrics and think about the life experience of a CEO, of a typical business owner, and some of the things that they believe to be true and some of the ways in which our lives somehow They don't slip through our hands, but maybe we could be making more of them. And, and that song always, always just hit home for me.

And want to welcome George Sandman, um, to the show today. He is the founder and CEO of GrowthDrive. And what is GrowthDrive, George?

GrowthDrive is a technology-enabled system for growing profits and cash flow in middle market and pre-middle market businesses. And, uh, and it's a system that's deployed By business advisors.

Great. And so today we're specifically going to talk about kind of how you've incorporated the whole peer advisory council, as everybody knows we call them PACs, into your practice. And it really goes along the lines of kind of something that is taking a trend kind of under the radar a little bit is about doing these PACs, mastermind groups for clients, but how they increase engagements, retention, all kinds of benefits around it. So want to pick your brain today about your experience with it. How does it help with your, you know, building your, your business and with growth drive and how it's incorporated in your experience with it? All the above. So I'm going to turn it over. Like, how, how does this work?

Yeah, that's how you work.

How do you make it work?

So, Tina, thank you. You know, fantastic tee-up question. So if you're out there in the market, so I'm going to divide again, divide this into two groups. So we have CEOs out there. CEOs benefit deeply from participating in a peer advisory council. Right. The data is in, as I always say.

Right. The most traditional type group.

And, and very powerful. And when you and I met, I was struck by the power of your methodology. And I'm not blowing sunshine. I really— you, you are doing something different and better than anyone out in the market. And when I look at business advisors, business advisors, what kind of support do they get? So the support that we offer, I just use this as our, as our stalking horse. We offer basic support. I, I have a problem, I pick up the phone or I chat and, and get hold of, of the staff. Okay? That's one layer of support. The next layer of support is we have a community and it's a community that is online. It is a you know, I hate the word forum. It is an online community where you can ask questions, post articles, interact with your peers. There, there are no, no limits, no boundaries. Uh, it is really crowdsourced support. And then there's much more focused. Then there are, there are business advisor peer groups, peer councils, um, in which we use the Alex Council model. And those councils, imagine having a, uh, having, having a, a dream team, right? Sitting around the table. So, um, let's just imagine that I'm a fractional CFO and and I'm participating in a group and I'm, I'm working with a, with a, a client and I'm having X and Y problem. I can now sit down in a group. It is a standing group. We're all under NDA. We know each other, trust each other. We meet every month and frankly more than once a month because we're, we're interacting outside of the group. And we are able to, I'm able to ask an investment banker, a CPA, a, a wealth advisor, you know, I'm, I'm able to ask all of the professionals that would be serving a client, a representative client, how, what they would see in this challenge, this opportunity, this problem, this idea that I have. Very important, the concept of putting ideas on the table and being able to vet them with other senior professionals before you go and, you know, roll them out on the track. So, you know, and the people who are participating in our groups love them, absolutely love them. They use words like, I'm honored to describe their participation.

That's impressive.

Yeah. And absolutely. And they're professionally led. And I would like to distinguish that from, from a, a professional chapter. Let's say you're in an exit planning chapter. Great. That's really a fancy referral network, right? And, and they're, they're, they're, they're good, right? But they're not what I just described. And I'd like to distinguish it very carefully from a study group. What does a study group do? Well, they sit down and we get together and we look at a given topic and we study that topic. And the study group is very powerful. It's a good thing, but it is not. Again, if you think about those two, imagine participating in them. There is a very, very different experience and a level of loyalty. You know, referrals happen inside a peer advisory council, but it is a, it is a fantastic experience.

You know, something you said just a second, I want to kind of go back, is that because you, you, if, if those of you are actually watching the show versus listening anyway, if you were just listening, George kind of pointed to his head and it's like his mind. And one of the concepts in regards to the peer group concept and how you're doing it is the difference of a study group is it's really, it's really the master who has the expertise and the knowledge is imparting it into the group. Versus this is truly sharing of experiences and perspectives and insights, which is the difference. And so why did you decide to incorporate kind of the peer group concept into your business practice?

You know, I respond to, to, to now what's. So, you know, very briefly, we, we have a software tool. The software tool has a couple of levels. So people would complete the first level and they say, okay, George, I completed level 1. Now what? Well, we needed training and support for that. I've completed Level 2. Now what? Well, we developed training and support, and Humanity's getting high marks for that. The Peer Advisory Council, I was getting— people were meeting. We had a couple of annual live get-togethers, but there was a big hole, and that hole was the requests for support all around that, that notion that I just described. And, and we do, you know, business advisor peer groups for generalists, which are, which are fantastic. And we also do them for specialists. And if you'd like, I'd be happy to describe why that is. And we also help people deliver them for their CEO clients. So, you know, there's a lot there.

Right. So how do you think that, you know, you think about doing these groups and you have your clients in there and you also work with your clients in different, not just them being in a group, right, through, through your product, your service offering, et cetera. So what have you found and are finding as the benefits of your clients coming together?

There, there are so many. What I, maybe the best way to describe it is to describe, you know, the, the types of issues on which they work. So they work together on issues and in a very focused way. When you get to know someone and when you get to understand their business, their business model and their go-to-market, then you're able to offer much better advice and much more thoughtful advice. And that's the power of the LX Council model, right? You know how much I'm deeply committed to facilitation. We just finished our facilitation course called the Fearless Business Advisor. You know, facilitated conversations are much better than ad hoc conversations. You have somebody sitting and making sure that the right questions are asked. And when the right questions are asked, the right problem is solved. The right idea is, is hunted down. You know, we're doing the right— we're laser focusing our advice as a group. And my gosh, you know, you think about having 10 people in a room, each of whom has about 30— we tend to attract senior pros. So let's just say 30 years of experience. You have 300 years of experience sitting at the table. It is incredibly powerful and, and it is all focused. If you wanna be selfish, it is all focused on you and your problem. Okay? So do you have 270 years sitting at augmenting your 30? Yeah. It, Tina, I hope that answered the question.

It does. It does. Because part of why you've incorporated, right, the concept in is just an added level of service and connection, right? Yes. You're also building a community.

Yes.

And so this is kind of a piece that connects all the dots together, right? So not only You know, for you, like some of the benefits are, you know, if you think about for you, but let's say other organizations that might do something similar and start doing PACs with their, their clients, etc., or even prospects could be in there, right? You could, you might not have a formal engagement. So what it does help with all those things like, right, engagement and retention. So can you expand on that a little bit?

Absolutely. So, you know, actually our most active, our most active members are in peer groups. And I don't know, I believe it's, it's, we know where the cart and the horse are in that, you know, people come in there that when you're at a, when you're a very committed professional and you want to be at the top of your game, you want to have your spear as sharp as you want, as it can be. You want to be getting the best advice possible. You want to be on the cutting edge of ideas. Those women and men tend to participate in the peer groups. And, and it's transformative. It is absolutely transformative. When we sit and watch people build effective marketing programs with advice from their peers, we had one of our members put on the table as a COP, a COP as a challenge, opportunity, problem, or idea. It gets processed in the meeting, a new business model. And the discussion around whether or not the business model was a good idea and it was a great idea and whether it would be viable in the market. And we all, I participate in this particular group, we all came to the conclusion that it was. And here's a benefit, everyone sitting around the table has now gone back to their business advisory business, right? And they're saying, huh, that is a great idea. Maybe I should, maybe I should be thinking about deploying it in whole or in part. Now you're not gonna get that. You, you will get that maybe by osmosis in a less formal setting. But for the, for the, you know, let's face it, the ROI from participating in the group is, is off the charts, absolutely off the charts. And, you know, I've been doing this a very long time. The ROI that I get from participating in the group is unparalleled. I could not get this experience anywhere else.

You know, let's build on that as we get close to wrapping up. I know, which is you do participate in the group.

Yes.

And so how does that work when you're in it and then some of your clients or prospects are also in it? And how, you know, what do you see as the benefit? Is there any, you know, sticky point by you also participating at all? So what's, what's been the experience? What are your— what's your thought process by that?

Sure. So I decided to— I asked if they would, you know, I asked for permission. This is their group, right?

Very important to do that.

This is their group. So I asked for permission. You know, I may run the company, but I asked for permission and they were, they were thrilled to have me join. I bring a very different perspective to the table. I bring the perspective of a guy who has been an entrepreneur. So I've been their client for 30 years. I have advised thousands, a little over 1,000 advisors on thousands and thousands of cases. So I bring that perspective to the table. And, you know, and that's, that's all for the good. I may not be, I may not be bringing specific client case and my specific client cases, but there's, I bring a very, very unique perspective to my group. And selfishly, I get so much from them that then allows us to be better for our entire community. And so that's my two favorite meetings of the month. Yeah.

Well, to your point, though, you're getting real-life feedback from them.

Yes.

Provide a better level of service to them, right?

Yes.

It's kind of like the inside scoop of your— from your clients.

And could I build on that for a sec, Tina? Because when we help people do groups, put together a peer advisory council, now they can, they can come to you or they can come to me, two different business models, but it's the same experience for the customers. The— if you think as a business advisor about the power of having a group of CEOs and a number of our members have gone out and have become your customers, you know, we kind of— they could become your customers or they work out a— we have a business relationship. And you think about their— you talked about sticky clients. You talked about expanding your reach and relevance. You want to be relevant with your client. In these groups, things get discussed that would never get discussed, would rarely get discussed in another setting, and probably would only be discussed with spouses and closest friends. And that's the level of That's the level of engagement and vulnerability. People routinely share things that are, it's not squishy, but things that impact. We're animals that have an entire life, right? And they routinely bring the rest, you know, and now the rest of the story, they routinely bring that into their business questions. And it is. So if you wanna be incredibly relevant to your clients and build cohesion and build loyalty, you ought to be considering putting on, not considering, just stop thinking and do, right? This is a very, very powerful tool. Yeah, it's the best.

Yeah.

Well, thank you for sharing all that. Kind of the concept today is to open up everybody's minds out there about, you know, whether no matter what type of business you're in is to consider how you rope this in as a service offering, right?

Sure.

To everything else that you do, particularly whether you're an actual company like a CPA firm, right? A law firm or whatever, or a business consultant as well. Either way, you know, it works. But how it can add another layer of just benefit to running your own business with absolutely what you get. So any parting food for thought one thing that you want to make sure the audience has as a takeaway, um, as we wrap up?

I, you know, I would say you owe it to yourself to invest time in looking at this tool, very, very powerful tool, as one of the services you can offer in your practice. And you also owe it to yourself to consider Imagine what it would be like to have the breadth and, and, and diversity, professional diversity of opinion at your disposal, not just once a month, but you can pick up the phone at your disposal whenever you need it. And what that would do for your practice. And if you think you can get it anywhere else, great. But I would ask you to at least you owe it to yourself to invest the time to check this out in detail. Do the research.

Great. So, George, if somebody wants to contact you, how do they do that?

I'm easy. I have a very unique last name. It is Sandman. S-A-N-D-M-A-N-N. You can Google George Sandman, and my email is also very simple. It is George at growth— It's here on my shirt. Growth-Drive.com. George@Growth-Drive.com. That's also our website. I'd love to have a conversation.

Awesome. George, thank you for sharing your wisdom of doing groups within your community and appreciate it. And as always, thanks for being here.

Thank you very much, Tina. I'm glad we met and thanks for inviting me on.

Of course. All right, everybody have a great day.

Hey, moderators of groups, thank you so much for listening to today's podcast. To get access to today's show notes and exclusive content and resources, visit TinaCornerStolz.com/podcast or LXcouncil.com, where you can also become part of an exclusive online community attend our Academy, or get free resources, templates, checklists, and more. And you can even contact me there as well. So if this episode resonated with you and you know someone who can also benefit from listening, please share with them by taking a screenshot and even posting on your social media. I also love reviews and appreciate hearing from each of you, those actually doing this wonderful work. Please tune in next week for another episode of Mastermind Mastery. And I'll close by sharing something my mentor did after every learning moment. He shared a shiny pebble from his pocket with anyone he passed knowledge to and asked them to forward that pebble—knowledge—on. So now I encourage you to go pass on a pebble, the takeaways you learned today. To either your existing groups or fellow peers. Now, go make it a great one.