Unlocking Business Success Through Peer Group Working with Des McCabe

Hello and welcome to Mastermind Mastery, the podcast for professionals who want to create and run successful peer advisory councils, or as we call them, PACs for short, or they're also known as peer groups or business mastermind groups. I'm your host, Tina Corner Stolz, founder of Elix Council, where I've been in the industry running groups since 2005 and now help those like you with education, certification, and support wanting to do the same. At one time, I ran 10 groups, nearly 100 members, and sold my groups For a Good Multiple and recently released my second book, Your Seat at the Table: How to Create and Run Your Own Peer Advisory Councils, published by Forbes, and grateful to you that it's an Amazon bestseller. I invite you to join each week where we share strategies and techniques to successfully launch and become a master of running your PACTs. You'll hear insights, perspectives, do's and don'ts, learn from my and my guests' mistakes, successes, and get the inside track to key takeaways. Each time we have guest, we'll be having a bit of fun. So are you ready? Let's get going and dive into today's episode.

So hello everyone, this is Tina Corner, your host for Mastermind Mastery. And today we have Des McCabe with us. And before we get started, Des, you just had me play We Can Work It Out by Clive Williams. So why is that an important song to you?

Oh, Tina, it's wonderful to be here. Thank you so much for the invite. And I met Clive about 4 or 5 years ago. He came along to one of the programs that we were running, and it was about how do you develop your future, your career, your business, all of that in one thing. And most of those courses tend to focus on your key skill and how you develop it. But what Clive did is he got to work with the rest of the group in a peer group working type arrangement, and he suddenly said, well, what are you guys doing? and he found out about the program we were working, which was called Work It Out. So he combined his musical talent with our program and he wrote us a theme song for our program called Work It Out.

No way.

Yeah.

That's a great story. So we're gonna make sure we include the link to that song in the show notes so everybody can listen to the whole thing. 'Cause the words are kind of amazing. I'm like, huh? Yeah.

And it's, again, it's, it's on my website, desmccabe.com, if anybody wants to listen to it. But it was a really, it, I chose it because it encapsulated this idea of peer group working where somebody takes the initiative, works with their colleagues in a collaborative way, and creates something that people just couldn't expect.

Yes. Well, what a great song. And that, that happened. So definitely meaningful for you. And as we get started, so today's episode is really going to talk about unlocking business success through peer group working. And Des and I have known each other for years. Des is based out of the UK. and I've known him from the standpoint of him being a licensing expert. And Deb, Des has written like multiple books. We'll kind of talk a little bit about that. But today's kind of, um, episode based on peer group working, you know, is, is kind of a concept out there I'm sure a lot of our audience hasn't heard about. So I'm excited to talk about this today with you because let's first just start with what is peer group working. What does that mean?

Well, you're absolutely right. Right. I'm conscious this is a short podcast, right? But I think peer group working is probably the most least understood and most underutilized management and personal development skill that businesses have. So that's the first thing to say. It's already— we already have it. It's just that we don't use it. And I think part of the two ways of trying to describe what it is, is the first thing, it's an individual-led process. So it's not something where the management team say, let's set up a peer group to look at such and such. Right? So that's the first thing. It's an individual-led process where somebody says, like Clive with the song, why don't we write a song? Right? Somebody says in your business, why don't we do such and such? That's where peer group working comes from. It comes from that individual spark of creativity and innovation. And the second key thing about it is it's about personal relationships. So it starts with a personal piece. And I know that you are fabulous with this on your peer group and your management peer group. Teams and your mastermind groups where you do the individual piece right at the start where people touch base on a key point. And years ago, when I grew up in Ireland, we would go to a management meeting for whatever it was for an hour, and the first 10 minutes would be saying hello. The next 20 minutes would be having a cup of coffee with scones and butter and cream and jam. And then by the time you had 15 minutes left, You actually had built the right level of relationship and positivity to deal with whatever it was. And I think we've missed that in business. I think we, we tend to be much more task-oriented rather than personal development-led. We don't get all of those additional values from the relationship.

No. And being now remote so much has changed that, right? Can't really do that. And stuff.

And your other point then about why do we need it? That's why we need it. Because we're so remote usually, we focus on tasks. And because we're focused on tasks, we tend to work within our departments or our area of responsibility. But if we were linking up with people and developing ideas, building relationships first, then that opens up the fact that Clive can play the guitar, he can construct a song, he can add the music. To it. We've got a new product coming out of nowhere. So there's a great freedom, flexibility. It unleashes tremendous creativity, innovation if you can get everybody in the same hymn sheet, so to speak, right?

Right. So we're talking mostly so inside an organization, right? Yep. Right now. Yep. And how would, how would somebody go about making something like this happen?

Well, we all do it automatically ourselves. It's an innate process. We tend to say to somebody right at the start of most conversations, how are you? And then we stop, right? So the first thing is there has to be a clear permission from the organization written into its values and behaviors that says we're a people organization. And that means that we talk about the things that matter to those people. How are the kids? What's happening with the mortgage? What's happening with your bills? Did you get the grass cut? Right? Whatever it happens to be, because that takes us into that personal conversation and level of understanding. So that's the very first thing the organization has to do. And what we've created at the moment, we've sanitized our business world over the last 20 years. We've, so that it's almost transactional. We turn up, we do our tasks, and we go home. And we've lost this huge amount of value that sits within each person that lies undiscovered and untapped and underutilized. So first of all, the organization has to make it clear that this is what we're about. We want to get the best out of you, not just the piece that we're hiring you for to do your job. Yeah, you could be a phenomenal whatever else that we don't know about.

Right. And so it's also allowing time, right? And that it's okay to have time to get to know each other, right?

Well, let's go, let's go back to the Irish meeting because you still get more done, but you're not spending all your time doing it. And you will know the phrase, time expands to fill the, or work expands to fill the time available. So if we have an hour Zoom, we use the hour.

Right.

Right. But if we spent the first 10 or 15 minutes checking in, building relationships, we would get far more done in the last 45 minutes because we would complete the task we'd set out to initially and we would get on to some more really juicy creative stuff.

Because everyone is now in a better mindset place, right?

Yeah. And we've discovered something new. We've discovered that they are good at something. We find out they have a particular need of something. We know we've got some ideas for websites they should link into. Yeah. Or there's a business opportunity we've spotted. We know it's not in our department, but it might be relevant to you. Now, those things are normally outside of the normal task-oriented meeting.

Right.

So this does not take more time. This is a more efficient use of time.

Yes.

Well, one of the things that I'll be talking about in an episode is FORD, F-O-R-D. And that is how you talk about someone's family, what they do, their recreation, and their dreams. And, but the point is, is that what I heard, you know, too earlier for you is how you ask, how are you doing? And one, it has to come across as sincere, right? Number two is it doesn't end there. So I ask how you're doing, but I should be listening for your answer and then build upon it.

Right?

Absolutely. So, and in fact, you go further than that. Because the way that that could be interpreted is that we've got a meeting to do, but we stick this bit on at the front, right, to show that we care. But it's not like that. This is actually a different way of working. This is actually turning it inside out and saying, okay, let's get, let's build a relationship, let's find out what What's happening? And then together, now let's get on to this piece. So it's not an artificial 4 or 5 minutes at the start. It's a complete mind shift or value shift.

Yeah. So how do you think organizations should do that? Like, how do you get people to do this inside an organization, you think?

Well, first of all, people need to understand that they have permission.

So, right, it goes back to you saying the organization has to say we're a people organization, right?

And this is the way that we work. We're interested in people. We want to find out more. We haven't just hired you to do the job. We've hired every part of you because we want you to develop. We want you to be fulfilled. We want you to be excited. We want you to create new opportunities with us, etc. So that comes into your induction. Right? So you start with induction, then you start with your normal management processes. So this process gets built into your meetings, it gets built into your work agendas, right? This now becomes your EDI, equality, diversity, inclusion strategy. Many managers I meet still think that diversity is about the number of Black people that you have in your organization. Diversity is about the way that we utilize the skills, abilities, talents, experience, knowledge, and contacts that people have. Now, how do we find all that out? That's the mechanics of inclusion. And so many organizations get lost in, you know, training on diversity or training and inclusion. That's not how you build an inclusive organization. The way you build an inclusive organization is asking people, how are you?

And so, you know, I think about this and that, um, One thing that pops out to me listening to you is vulnerability. Meaning, you know, if I'm here and we're having this conversation and I'm learning more about you, et cetera, I would think one of the benefits is vulnerability. Meaning out of this, I'm going to feel more comfortable maybe stating my opinion or my perspective on something because I now feel like I might be in a more safer space just because I might feel like I know you better or you know me better, et cetera. Is that an outcome? That happens.

Yes. And the better word for that is trust.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. So organizations, businesses are looking to build trust. So many businesses have a toxic culture, and you hear it all the time with the way people behave, et cetera. So this is the way you've described it is a level of vulnerability. But the other side of that is trust. It's about relying on people in a lovely way without feeling like you're being exploited or opening up too much or feeling you're giving something away. All of those things eventually disappear because other people work with you as opposed to separately from you, and you're not exposed in that way.

Right. Right. So are there other benefits like we haven't talked about? So there's like it saves time, it's more efficient, increases trust. You know, you find out different capabilities, right, that somebody might have. It creates sometimes new thought process, right, of bringing out. And so is there anything else that it does?

Yeah. Yeah. The, the two big benefits are firstly around businesses and then secondly around the individuals.

Mm-hmm.

So for businesses, often businesses don't know how to deal with things. Number one, it could be a challenge, it could be an opportunity, or it could be something they don't even know that they need to deal with. Now, there will be people in the organization who have ideas about those challenges, who have ideas about those opportunities, and who can see things that are going wrong or are about to go wrong. Now, at the moment, we've excluded all of that potential from seeping up and having an impact. Peer group working creates a positive way for that to happen because then people can say, I've had this thought, who should I talk to? I've had this idea, who do you think it would be a good person to meet with? So it gets people to move out of their tasks, their jobs. It gets them to move out of their department in a much more constructive and planned way. For the individual, huge benefits around and a sense of worth, a sense of being valued and very fast career development because suddenly now they can create something and make an impact. So there's— it's a win-win for everybody.

Yeah. Well, and I can see too where this is when we think about the traditional model of running a mastermind group and a peer group, a lot of times as the moderator of that meeting, you may feel kind of beholden to the agenda. Okay, so the agenda being we're supposed to start here, do this next, do that next, do this next, and we have to end here. And there is an important piece too that I'm hearing that this applies, that just allow for, right, these conversations to have and the importance of having them to build trust in the group. It's another tactic. Another way to do that because there's all kinds of methods that everybody has to do that. But those casual conversations and allowing those to happen and also kind of setting up the environment to happen is obviously important. And what comes to mind too in listening to you is how it can train those owners or whoever are the members in the group to take that back to their organizations to do the same.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I, and I just love what you do with your mastermind groups, particularly within organizations, because not only are you showing and teaching people how to work in a collaborative way, but you're actually, actually saying to them, as you rightly point out, here's a core skill that you can now take and use to encourage and empower people in your organization. So your mastermind groups are not just a group for people to help themselves. You're actually training them in the skill. Now, how do they take that skill back and use it? That's really what the huge potential is in all of this.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's just another learning. So it's, it's, I'm gonna call this to our audience. It's in many ways kind of sort of advanced technique here. It to get you thinking that as you're working with those, in your group how you can expand their thinking about taking this into the organization. So, you know, Des, as we kind of get to the end here to wrap up, what would you, for our listeners— because a lot of times when you hear a new concept, you need to hear it a few times for it to resonate. And I put this in that category. So for the audience, how would you wrap up kind of some of the key takeaways from our discussion today?

I think every business has a real fabulous opportunity to get greater value, greater innovation, greater collaboration out of all of their staff. And they can increase motivation by developing a much more cohesive, well-understood process of peer group working. What that means is you build it into your values and behaviors. You say we're a people business, we put people first. But what that means is that we We build relationships. We encourage people to build relationships because we want to find out about each other. A, because we care, because if we work better together, we'll help each other and we'll all succeed. But secondly, because we want to find out those skills and abilities and talents that you have and enable you to use those for the opportunities that are coming, et cetera, et cetera. The key thing here to remember is AI is doing 90% now of what we used to do. The key added value that companies are going to get is through relationship working. Peer group working cannot be done through AI. You and I will only come up with a new idea, Tina, when we talk like this.

Right.

When I find out that you're going to do something with LX Council and I say, here's a great new licensing idea, and suddenly something happens. So if you really want to be ahead of the game on AI, stop looking at prompts that other people have created. And start getting your own teams to say, what about this? Could we do this? Should we have a look at this?

Great.

That's the big thing.

Perfect. And I think you have a guide, right? Yeah, I've got to tell everybody about the guide and we're going to put how you get this guide in the show notes. So I think everybody's going to want to do this. So what's the guide?

Yep. Well, out of today, I'll pull together some notes. I'll do a little summary for people. Yeah, it'll be short, sharp, but it'll just answer all the questions that you've asked me. Without the Irish accent, and then they'll be able to download that on my website. And again, if they have any queries, just come back to me at any stage. I'm more than happy to help.

Awesome. Well, I know you will definitely come back because there's lots of other thought-provoking ideas that you have that I want to make sure the audience gets to hear, that our listeners. So as we always end the episode, what is the one piece of wisdom, right, insight you would give to the audience about the whole peer group concept that you would love to share?

You just landed this on me. So what I would say is start right now to have real conversations with people.

Yes.

Don't start and say, did you get the task done? Don't start By saying, where are the numbers? Start by saying, I'd love to have a chat with you, find out, or let's meet for a cup of coffee, or let's spend the first 5 minutes just catching up with where your career's at, or whatever.

Yes, absolutely. Well, that, that takes into so many, um, so many avenues. So great advice and appreciate again, Des, you being here. And, um, people can find you obviously LinkedIn, right? Is there any other way that would be good if they wanted to connect you?

Yeah, desmccabe.com.

Okay, well, that's easy. I think we all wish we had that, our name.com. So thanks again, Des, and thanks everyone for listening to today's episode.

Hey, moderators of groups, thank you so much for listening to today's podcast. To get access to today's show notes and exclusive content and resources, visit tinacornerstolz.com/podcast. Or LXcounsel.com, where you can also become part of an exclusive online community, attend our academy, or get free resources, templates, checklists, and more. And you can even contact me there as well. So if this episode resonated with you and you know someone who can also benefit from listening, please share with them by taking a screenshot and even posting on your social media. I also love reviews and appreciate hearing from each of you, those actually doing this wonderful work. Please tune in next week for another episode of Mastermind Mastery. And I'll close by sharing something my mentor did after every learning moment. He shared a shiny pebble from his pocket with anyone he passed knowledge to and asked them to forward that pebble, knowledge, on. So now I encourage you to go pass on a pebble, the takeaways you learned today, to either your existing groups or fellow peers. Now go make it a great one.