Ep.53 | Building Connection Through “Anniversary Calls” with Tisha Deden – From 61% to 89% Retention

Yeah, you're on the front ends and you're having those conversations and really leading.

Yeah, I'm not the wizard. I'm from Kansas, but I'm not the wizard. I'm not going to stay behind the curtain, you know, and hide from it. And we don't, we don't always get it right. We don't always get it right. And there will always be people who are unhappy, but I'm trying to be honest about it. I'm trying to be transparent about it. You know, there are people who have come to me and said, I wasn't happy with this part of my job or with this compensation. And then I just say, okay, This is the information I have. This is what I'm working with. And they may not be happy with the answer, but at least you just address it, right? And so that's where I think these calls also help. It's like, I can't solve everything that people are coming to me with, but I can at least say, I heard you and I will look into the things that I think I can solve. And so I try to take the low-hanging fruit. You know, if someone's upset about missing a resource, just give them the resource.

Hi there, and welcome to The HR Podcast. This is Linda Misegaitis and Cindy Manuel, and we'll be your co-hosts.

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Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of the HerResources Podcast. I'm your co-host, Linda Messiganis, and I'm here in the studio with my— let me see, what's the word?

Oh no, what word are you going to use today? With my thoughtful—

I'm going to use thoughtful today. Oh yeah.

That's a good one.

Yeah, no, with my thoughtful co-host Cindy Manuel. And today, Cindy's actually going to kick off the show for us today. We are very excited to have our friend Tisha Deden back in the studio with us today. So Cindy, I'm going to hand it over to you to take it away.

Woo-hoo!

All right, well, welcome back to another episode of the HER Resources Podcast, where we dive into strategies, stories, and solutions that help leaders create thriving workplaces. I am your co-host, Cindy Manuel, and today we are so excited, as Linda said, to welcome our friend back, Tisha Deden.

Welcome back. Thank you.

Yes.

She's back.

She's here.

Jazz hands. All right. Well, in January, Tisha joined us to share how her organization, Transformed retention, moving from 61% to an incredible 89% through intentional leadership, a culture of learning, and by making employee happiness a true business priority. That was a really good, good episode.

It was a great episode.

Yeah. And if those numbers have climbed even higher since then, I cannot wait to hear the update. So today we're taking that conversation just a little bit deeper. Tisha is going to share her latest initiative, anniversary calls. We're going to talk about this, what inspired this approach, the process, how employees have responded, and the lessons learned so far. We're also going to explore how anniversary calls build on the foundation of employee happiness and engagement, and what practical steps you can take in our HR community if you would like to bring a similar program into your own organization. So whether you're an HR leader, a people manager, or simply somebody passionate about creating workplaces where people feel valued and heard, this episode is for you. It's going to give you tangible strategies and fresh inspiration. So before we jump in, I just want to give a little reminder about, about Tisha's background. So Tisha is a 25-year— I almost said 25-year-old.

She's just a 25-year-old.

She is a 25-year-old. Started when she was a baby. That's right. HR professional that has worked in all aspects of HR. I got to work with her years ago, and it was awesome. Her sweet spots are employee benefits and employee relations. "Everything you want is on the other side of hard" is Tisha's favorite quote. And aligns with her approach to all things HR. Tisha's direct approach to solving problems in collaboration has allowed her to gain respect and support as a leader. Tisha has been an integral part of the success of Globus Family of Brands operations for 20 years and currently holds the role of VP of Human Resources. Tisha Deden, welcome back to the HR Resource Podcast.

It's good to be back. The gang's back together. I mean, you guys were with me at the beginning of my career and taught me me so much. So, oh wow. My goodness.

You've come a long way, baby.

You were an easy student if we taught you anything, that's for sure. So, oh my goodness.

Yeah.

Well, so the last time we got to talk to you, you had shared how your team moved the needle from 61% to 89% retention by focusing on learning and leadership.

Mind-blowing, right? Really? Yeah. Yeah, it really is.

So what inspired anniversary calls, Tisha?

Yeah, so I will say you said in the intro, am I higher than that number? I am holding firm around the 80% to 90% on retention, which is pretty amazing.

Impressive, honestly. Seriously, to hold at that number, that's an impressive number to be holding at.

In the world we're living in, yes.

You have to be. Yeah, so we're super excited about that. But anniversary calls were born— kind of as part of my retention efforts, but we've kind of taken them a step further. But I just remember, and I'm sure you both have been there, exit interviews. Someone leaves the company, and I got the pleasure, because usually it's HR, it's like, oh, I've got to schedule John's exit interview. And after doing those for about 18 or 19 years, I decided the life was sucked out of me. And there was, you know, because some of them are really, really hard to hear. Yeah, they are. You're like, I don't think I work for the same company. And so, I just decided like this, this is counterproductive. Why am I waiting until John's out the door to find out what John loved about the company, what he didn't like about the company, and what we could do better? Because anything that I do now is not going to benefit John. It will benefit his peers, but it's not going to benefit John. So, I had heard about stay interviews and, you know, decided like, is that a better approach? And so, I approached my leadership team. And just said, is everyone okay with getting rid of exit interviews? And it was a resounding, let's get rid of it because it really was just upsetting the business, upsetting managers. They felt really deflated. Why weren't people coming to me?

So that's where the bad breakup, right?

It is a bad breakup.

Yeah.

It's like interviewing your boyfriend you broke up with.

Yeah. Tell me you didn't like that thing because I have a philosophy that I tell all employees is I can't fix problems I don't know about. And so waiting to the exit interview is pulling out all these problems that perhaps you didn't know about. So that's how I implemented the anniversary call. And I'm still playing with the name. I wonder if they should be called retention calls. I'm not sure. But we started those, and HR owns them. It's something eventually I'd like to have my leadership team get involved with. But, you know, I have some opinions on that as well as will people be as open? So what we did is we, so I have a call center. I have 2 call centers in our company and what we had found with some of our data, because I know I told you guys data drives decisions. I'm a big data person. I know you both are as well. Our sticky point was 90 days. So we knew if we could get people to 90 days, there was a higher likelihood of them sticking. So we call it our sticky point.

I love that.

Yeah.

And so it's like, well, how do I help people get to that? So I had to go back to my onboarding again and say, what am I doing to help people get on board? So. What we do when we hire a new employee, everybody gets a welcome card. And so, whether the manager sends it or someone from my team sends it, when you accept the offer prior to your start date, you are going to have company logo card with the smiley face on it that says, "Welcome to the team." Because we think that that starts the relationship. We're now in a relationship, to your point, Linda, we're dating.

Yes, that's right. That's right. And I need to know that after our first date, when you made that job offer, that you're still interested, right? Because oftentimes you don't hear anything from the employer for— could be days, could be weeks, and you're like, do I still have the job? What's going on?

Did they forget about me? So, yeah, so we do that. I also encourage my leaders, you should send them an email, a text, or something just saying like, Linda, I'm really excited to have you join the team.

So, yeah, it makes you feel good.

It makes you feel good. It's a welcoming approach, and people tell me they save those cards, and they remember getting the cards. That's amazing. So we do that welcome card. They, of course, go through an orientation on their first day. And then at the 60-day mark, we used to do something at 30 days, but we thought, you're still trying to figure out people's names. So we start our kind of anniversary on 60 days. So at 60 days—

That's so smart.

Happy anniversary. You made it to 2 months. And so it's a call from HR. They're 10 or 15-minute calls. This does not take a lot of time. And I know for the two of you, it's important for you. It doesn't take any money.

Right? Yes, that's right. That is important.

I don't need a budget item for this. My team divides this. And so I'm just gonna look at my— the things that we ask is, have they had a one-on-one with their leader? Because in the first 60 days, I will hope that your leader has met with you. Rate the training that you've received thus far. What's your comfort with the role thus far? And is the job what you expected it to be? And this one, I think, is really important. Because how many times have we heard from people, I applied for this job, I got here, this is not what I thought I was going to be doing?

Oh, true.

I love that one the best, honestly.

Yeah, me too.

And then we do our happiness question. Sorry, go ahead.

Oh, no, I can wait. I can wait. OK, keep going.

So then the other one that we ask—

We're so impatient, Tisha, because we're so excited. We're like, oh, we have to talk about this.

Woke up. Yeah. And so then the other question is, what's your happiness rating on a scale of 1 to 5 today? How are you feeling? And we get really worried about a 1, 2, or 3. It's— we would like to be at 60 days. I think it's okay to be at a 3, but ideally at 60 days, if you're already at a 3, we've missed something. We've missed something.

So yeah, something has happened.

Something has happened. So we want a 4 or 5, and then we just ask them, are there any other comments? So that's the 60-day. So Cindy, you had a question.

I did. Thank you for coming back to me, Tisha. I appreciate that. You're such a good interviewer. Gosh, I have so many questions, honestly. So what if I am an employee, a new hire, newish hire, who says, you know, I'm at about a 3. Do you include me in the sort of what the path forward is to get to a 4 and a 5? Or how does that kind of work, Tisha?

Yeah, so it's a question that when my team asks that, it's like, OK, you're at a 3. Can you help us understand why you're at that point? Is there anything that we can do to help get you there? And my team is taking notes. We have a spreadsheet that we all can see. And so a lot of times they'll flag me or they'll follow up with the manager and say, you know, Cindy is at a 3, and she said the reason that she's at a 3 is because she She hasn't had a one-on-one, which is a problem, or she perhaps doesn't know how to find this tool that would make her job a little easier. So we try to give that feedback right away to leaders, and we also trend our data. So we're using some AI to just trend the data to see, OK, are we seeing some common themes? And I will tell you that 60-day, it's typically just a learning curve, and people are struggling with technology. So we give that feedback also to our technology team to say, hey, I keep seeing in the sales department, they're saying their CRM is doing this. Can we take a look at it?

Oh my gosh, it's just such a great process. And you're doing something with the data. There's nothing worse than ask me all these questions and I'm not going to do a ding-dang thing, as Linda would say, with it.

That's right.

You know? Yeah. Yeah.

You just let me just digest it all to you and then no one did anything with them. It's very deflating. And for us, it's the most important thing on feedback that you ask people for. You need to action it some way.

I so agree with that.

It's a gift.

Well, and the other thing I like is that what you said is that it's cross-functional as well, right? That it's not just all that information comes into HR, and then you sit on it, or maybe you have a conversation. It's you're reaching out to IT. How can IT improve? You're reaching out to the hiring manager, maybe if if benefits was involved or training was involved or whoever it is, you're reaching out to them. So then everybody gets better in the process, right? So that's what I really love about what you're doing there is it's not just about improving the employee's experience. It's really about improving everybody's experience in the long run.

Yeah, and it also helps us know, did we miss something in the hiring process that, ooh, maybe at 60 days, we realize that this person probably is not the right fit. Not that I'm here to release people, but let's see if there's another role. If we're finding some of the things they're saying is not the right fit, or let's just end the relationship rather than investing any more time into this person. So that 60-day is really important because at 90 days, we don't have a conversation. At 90 days, you're sticky. So at 90 days, I'm sending you a card and say, congratulations, you made it through the first 90 days. And they get a survey link that just asks them some very similar dates. Questions about how's it been going, what's going well, what's not going well. And again, we trend that data. So, so now in your first 90 days, you've had, you've received a welcome card, you've had hopefully a one-on-one with your leader, maybe two. You had a call with HR, you've had another card that you received and a survey. And so then we give you the next 90 days to really, really settle in.

That's good. Yeah.

So, you're settling in because we don't want to over-fatigue you with questions and surveys. Survey fatigue is a real thing.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, that is true.

Yeah. And we do a pulse check every quarter as a company. So, you know, they will have already been able to give us some feedback then. So, then we'll talk to our new hires again at 180 days, 6 months.

Perfect.

Yeah. And so, at the 6-month, it's a call, another call with HR. We're asking them again, what is your comfort? With the role? Tell us your happiness. And we're hoping that we've seen that number either stay or improve. Would you recommend Glovis to a friend?

That's a really good question.

Because to us, it's so important at that point, is this person going to be a long-term employee? And long-term is hard to say, but are we going to make it to a year? And if they would recommend a friend there, then that gives us really good comfort in knowing that they'll stick around. And that's it. It's just those 3 questions at your 6-month, because now it's up to your manager to keep it going for the rest of the year. And then that's when we kick off your— the true anniversary call. Every anniversary, no matter if you're at 1 year or if you're at 40 years, I do have someone who's at 45 years.

Wow.

You will get a call from someone on the HR team the week of your anniversary to see how it's going. Wow.

That is fantastic. I really like so much of what you said here, Tisha. And what I'm curious, in that first 90 days, one of the things that I do wonder about for a new hire starting is the balance between— so I'm the hiring manager. I hired that person because I need them to start working. And so I'm anxious to get them in there moving. But then there is that onboarding process where they are trying to get— acclimated. And so how do you advise your hiring manager to kind of find the balance between allowing that employee— because I mean, I worry sometimes, like, I'm going to burn them out in the first 30 days if I come at them with all of the stuff that we have to do. But I'm anxiously sitting here like, oh my gosh, I need this person to start working. So how do you recommend you find that balance?

Yeah, that balance is hard. And so we try to, again, do it before the person's even here. So, as part of our onboarding and our intake process, so the— Linda, you come to me and say, I need an accounting associate. OK, I can help you hire that accounting associate. We're going to go through on the interview questions, that standard intake meeting. But then the last thing my team is going to advise you is, Linda, I think it's important that you start your training plan. Because then you've created this foundation of what are the key things that this new employee needs to know so that I don't overwhelm them. I'm a visual person. And so if I can see that I've built this training plan and I put 10 meetings on their first day, or they're going to have to meet all these people, it gives you that opportunity to say, what's really important in that first 2 weeks? So I build my training plans and I help managers build them on 2-week intervals. What's really important in that first 2 weeks? Now let's go to the next 2 weeks. Now we're at 30 days. Now we'll go to 45 days. And so building it out at that 2, in 2-week intervals, I think helps that landing be a little softer. But I also know sometimes people have to jump in, in the deep end of the pool on day 1. And so you just do your best.

Yeah.

Supporting them along the way, maybe giving them some floaties for their arms to kind of help them. Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. I like that, Sydney.

I know that Globus is very— I know that Globus is very intentional about training your leaders too and how to lead, right? So I think your leaders are probably steps ahead of most leaders. There's a lot that you guys do to support your leaders as well to be good leaders, which then in turn supports their teams. So—

[Speaker:ALISON_WOODRUFF] Yeah, and we ask our employees for feedback on that. So if you are with the company 2 years or longer, We ask you questions specifically about what training and learning you want, because we are now on a path to how are we wanting our employees to learn. So at that 1-year call, we do ask them, describe your leader in one word.

Nice.

Boy, has that been telling. Yeah. It's like, well, you asked. But again, it helps us know that.

Do you find the leader, like, do you say, define— is it your direct manager? Is it that next level? Is it the executive? Because sometimes I find that the feedback is that they're not happy with executive leadership, but they love their direct manager. So I'm curious, when you ask that question, are you specific about what leader you're asking them to grade, I guess, at that point?

Yes, we are very specific. We feel that the most important relationship they're going to have is their immediate leader. So it is your immediate leader. How would you describe them? And I'm looking at, you know, had someone described their leader as fantastic? You love that, you know? But when I see words like stoic or, you know, some nerve, it's like, ooh, that's a problem. Let's dig into that. We also asked them to describe their team at the 1-year anniversary. So in a word, how would you describe your team?

And what kind of words do they use?

Yeah, I'm curious, like what kind of words do you typically say?

So on that, describe your team. Yeah, see, I've got the data up here. We are seeing words, great, open, communicative. I like that. So, we're seeing some really positive words there because also the second to me most important relationship you're going to have is with your team, right? So, the leader. So, that's why we ask that. Then we want to make sure that you have a team, because I think the Gallup poll, one of the questions they ask on their surveys is, do you have a best friend at work? And so, there have just been studies that say if people have a friend or a close friend at work, there's more likelihood that they'll stay. So that's why we ask about the team.

I like that.

We also ask them to describe their role in a word. And this is never one word. They always give us more.

Yeah, it's like, I don't know if I can describe my role in a word.

But, you know, again, we see a lot of positive words. But in that first year, I will say a lot of times we do see words like overwhelming, because depending on the level of the role, it's, boy, it was just a lot to learn. So sometimes that one we do see it leans more towards negative. We do ask them also, describe your past year in a word.

Oh, I love these.

And we did one word because it's just easier to trend the data. You can really identify.

That's a good point. Word bubbles. Yeah.

Yeah. So that helps us. And then we ask one change that you would make in the role or something you would love to stay the same.

Oh, I like that too. Those are great questions.

We try. We try. These are awesome. And then again, give us your happiness score. So everyone's at— we're going I'm going to be asking your happiness at all points because then I can go back and look at previous years and say, oh, Cindy was at her 1-year, Cindy was a 4. At her 2-year anniversary, she's now a 3. And oh my, at her 3-year anniversary, she's a 2. What happened?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What happened? And then we just ask them, is there anything that HR can help them with? And that one has been really telling. That's the one that has been the most rewarding. Because even though they gave us a 5, they'll suddenly say, I'm really struggling in this area. And it's like, ooh, do I need to tweak my questions to pull that out? So this is really just a way to pull out information. And so you've made it through a year, Linda and Cindy. So now you're at your 2+ year. And we change the questions. Our goal is to change the questions every year so that we're not asking you the same thing. So our questions—

I really like that too, Tisha, because I don't want to answer the same question because my My feelings have changed since you asked me those for— you're 10 years. Yeah, what kind? Yeah, exactly. So I really like that. That's a great idea. Yeah.

And so we, um, the question you will always be asked is your happiness, because we feel like that's a really quick way to determine it. But for our questions this year, um, in 2025, for my 2+ year folks was, what has kept you here all these years? So why do you stay?

I like that.

Because we want to keep doing— it's kind of like a start, stop, continue, right?

Yes.

We want to keep doing those things. One thing you look forward to each year.

I like that.

What's your top work-related challenge this past year?

OK.

The happiness score. And then, how can we help you? And it's— we try to make them really simple, really simple.

Yeah.

That I also like. Because sometimes you take those surveys, and one, I know that sometimes surveys are done in a way to like so that you can't trick the system. And so it'll ask you the same 3 different ways, different ways. Yeah, it drives you crazy. And it's like, we're, we're smart enough to know what it's doing, but we play along. And then at the end, they have like 2 or 3 open-ended questions for you. But by that time, one, I'm tired of the survey. I just want to get it over with. And so unless I'm truly vested, I'm not going to provide any more feedback at that point. I'm done with the survey.

Yeah, because they're just fatiguing, right? And so we have selected our 2026 questions. So I'd love to share those with you because it gets to what, Cindy, you talked about continuous learning and education. So 2+ years starting in 2026 is, do you feel that you are growing and improving in your current role? Love that. If, if not, what do you feel is keeping you from growth? So that way I'll be very curious to see how people come up with that one. Do you feel encouraged? Do you feel encouraged to pursue learning and development opportunities? If not, if not, what's preventing that? What skills or knowledge would you like to develop further? And then we ask their happiness score.

You know what I like about what you just did too there, Tisha, is it's not just tell, like, it's not an open venting session, right? It's a, you know, it almost insinuates I have to take some accountability for my own learning as well. For my own happiness as well. It's, again, a relationship. It goes both ways. You're going to support me every step of the way, but I have to meet you halfway or more because it's my profession, it's my professional career. So I need to take that ownership.

And that's hard. I don't know if you guys have talked to a lot of leaders about this, but getting people to understand that growth is an inside job.

I love that.

Me as your leader, I can only do so much. So, Linda, if I come to you and say, I want to grow, and you say, well, what does that mean? I'm like, well, I don't know. What do you want me to do?

It's like, well, then you're not going to own it. And so what?

Yeah, right. That is so true. I had an experience similar to that where I had someone who they wanted to— they kept saying, well, what's next? What's next? And my question back was, what do you want to be next? Like I can't tell you because the job that you have right now, that's the job we need you to be doing in that job. So if there's something else that you're interested in or pursuing, you have to tell me like where do you want— because I can't all of a sudden magically make that job a different job because if I didn't need that job, then I would get rid of that and I'd find a different job, right? But it's like I actually need that position. And so I love what you said there because we do find that so often is what are you doing as an individual to come forward and say, because yeah, there's only so much as a leader you can do to guide them along their way. You'll help them. And that's what I'd always say, right? Anything you need, anything you want, you just have to tell me, and then let's put together a development plan for you. But I can't do it for you. Like, I can't write the development plan for you. You have to tell me what it is that's important to you. Otherwise, I might take you down a path that you're totally not interested in either, right?

Yeah, and I love what you said there. We just launched— we are launching, actually, personal, professional development plans to the employee base here in the next few weeks. And how we are training our managers is this is not for you, Mr. or Mrs. Manager, to create. You need to give this to your employee, or really, quite frankly, employee, if you want one, it's up to you to take the initiative, complete it, and then bring it to your next one-on-one. And I don't know how it will be received because we still struggle that people think it's their manager's job to help them grow. If you tell me you want to be a senior in your role, if I have a need for that, I will help you get there. But I need you to tell me that so that I know what—

yes, communicate.

Yeah.

I need to know what types of training you need. Where do you think your skill gaps are? What do you enjoy doing? What don't you enjoy doing? But that has been probably our biggest hurdle with the feedback that we're getting and the people who say that they want to grow is they just— like, I'm reading one now. They said, I just want a promotion. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that information. Right. Right.

That is very true.

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One of our HR business partners said something to me that really resonated a while ago is she said, Linda, I understand you might want to promote this person, but is that what the business needs right now? And I was like, wow.

Always a balance.

Through that lens, right? Again, so yeah, I could promote this person, but why am I promoting them? Is it because the business needs it or is it because I'm just trying to promote that person? Maybe that's that's not the right thing in that moment. And so then it is hard. I will say it is challenging sometimes to then figure out what am I supposed to do with that information I got from HR, right? Because I want to keep that person and keep them incentivized. But it did make a lot of sense to say, why does the business need that right now? Do they need that senior-level role if you're going to promote that person? My question to you, though, and I'm curious your thoughts on this, What I maybe should have challenged back is then what's the succession plan for employees to provide them that? Because if you're telling me, does the business not need that? But I'm telling you, we've got to create some type of a growth path or we'll end up losing this superstar employee. So I'm curious both of your thoughts on that since you both— this is really your world around that sort of stuff. So I'm curious your thoughts around that.

Cindy, do you want to go first or do you want me to jump in?

I think you should go first.

So, succession planning. I'm glad you brought that up because I think that that was something we haven't done well, but it's something we are continuing to work on. But I agree with you, Linda. I have people who I can't afford to lose, right? I can't afford to lose you, but I also— the business doesn't need a senior or a level 2 in your role. So, I think it gets back to communication of saying, you know what, Cindy, I do value you as an employee. I'd love to give you some special projects when those come up. And you should know that you are on my succession plan. So, when the time is right, I will start bringing you in. And so, that's how I've tried to address it is just disclose to this person. I just had this happen actually a few weeks ago, and I went ahead and told the manager, I said, you should go ahead and disclose to this person that they are on the succession plan. I can't promise it will save them, but at least tell them that we have a plan. It's just, we can't implement it yet.

Yeah.

But we can do maybe baby steps around it. And usually it's around projects now.

Yes.

Is that invisible promotions? Because now you want me to do more work without—

right.

Yeah.

So, right. Yeah. That's true.

Yeah.

I call them invisible promotions. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

But Cindy, your thoughts?

That's actually what I was thinking as well, Tisha, is are there, you know, because you know who your hypos, your high performers are, right? And so you want to give them opportunities to shine, give them opportunities to be viewed maybe even across the organization as, you know what, Tisha was a part of this project, we really needed it. She stepped into that role while keeping her day job, so to speak, and did a fantastic job. I was just on a project project with an organization. We just wrapped up actually on Friday, and we were talking about one of their people who just really rose to the occasion. And the sponsor said, we're going to find a new opportunity for this person because she clearly has leadership skills. She clearly has great project management skills. So all of those things, it is an opportunity. And I agree with you, Tisha Deden, be honest with people. I like that. Don't string them along.

Yeah.

Those communications, be curious, ask them what they're looking for, communicate with them every step of the way, and make sure that also checking in with them, pulse checking with them, how is it going? I know this is a lot. How are you doing? What can I do to support you as their manager and as their leader?

And it gets back to data. We all, the 3 of us are data people.

Yeah.

It also gets, is it worth the risk of losing this person? So knowing what is my cost of replacement or cost of hire, you know, this person's been here 5 years. They make X amount of money. Right now, I'm not ready for a senior, but it's going to cost me double the price to hire someone if they resign. So maybe spending that extra 5 or 7% to give them that promotion in the long run is going to be better for the company. So, that's something we've tried to do as well. It's like, what's the risk of losing this person? And what will it cost us? Because quite frankly, right now in this economy, every person that you leave is probably going to cost you 10 to 15% more, or that you lose will cost you 10 to 15% more. So, we have to hold on to every person that we can, because most companies' budgets— you're at a large company, Linda, I'm sure your budget budget still can't afford 10% to 15% every time someone leaves. Absolutely not. No. Yeah.

So true. That is so true.

That's such a something that I think is really important for HR business partners to have with their leaders across the organization is, you know, what is the cost of someone leaving? And, you know, there's the dollar cost, the monetary cost. There's also the culture cost. Cost, you know? That's true. Because, you know, back to what you were saying earlier, Tisha, you know, you want them to become a part of that relationship, grow the relationship. You've got somebody there 45 years. You've got people who've been there for a number of years. I'm sure every step of the spectrum, but people want to go to an organization where they feel valued and, you know, where there's a good culture. People start to leave And you're going to have people scratching their heads wondering why and what's going on and what am I not seeing.

Yeah, and the institutional knowledge of people walking out the door. So, and that was really one of the reasons, all those things that we just talked about is why we think our anniversary calls are really important and necessary. And I'm going to keep them because it helps me identify hopefully issues before someone gets to the point of of, I've been unhappy for 3 years. No one's asked me about it. So now it's just time for me to leave. We have, I think we have saved people. Do I have specifics on that? No, but we've identified, you know, I'll use an example, compensation. You know, we had a lot of compensation comments in 2024. And so, it was like, okay, we've got to look at this particular job's range, you know, am I pricing it right? And so, I brought in a consultant. And while we didn't change the compensation for a lot of the people who were complaining, we did have some people, but I was at least able then to go back and say, we heard you.

Yes. We did our research.

Yep.

Yes.

You know, we heard you say that you didn't have quite the right compensation. So, I had your manager redo the job description. Boy, was that eye-opening, by the way.

Oh my goodness. Yes.

You know, when people are telling you, I'm not doing the job I expected, and I'm like, well, let me look at the job description. And then the manager adds all these things. It's like, whoa.

Yes, I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to ask you that, Tisha. Yeah, I was going to ask you, what do you do when somebody puts, the job was not what I thought it was going to be? What process do you guys go through?

So I typically, in that case, especially if I see it's trending for many people in that department, I don't normally do one-offs unless they're very specific. But I will send the job description to both that employee, and I say, take a look at your job description for me. It shouldn't be a secret. Um, we keep it in their files. So I send them their job description and then I also send it to the manager and say, hey, I've got Linda looking at her job description because she says she's not doing the job she was hired for. Um, please take a look at this, but I'll also share with you what things Linda comes back with. And it has been very eye-opening. I've had some cases where it's exactly right. That's what you want. But I have had some cases where it's like, when did we change this person's job I need to reprice this job. We need to maybe retitle this job. So that has been— we have had that happen a few times.

Now, I have a question for you as well, because this comes up too, is around the whole job description. Because to me, there's job descriptions that are written that are what the manager actually wants you to do. And then there are classifications that have been designed. So maybe I have— professional levels and there's P1, 2, 3, 4. And in those classifications, there are criteria around that. How do you discern the difference between classification, a job description, and how that kind of ties back into compensation? Because I think sometimes that's also what gets in, in all of that, right? Is because if I look at my job description, I'm like, well, I'm doing all of these things. But if you look at the job classification, the classification is a certain level. And so, yeah, none of it makes any sense then at that point. So how do you look at all of that and reconcile those pieces, or what's best practices around that?

Yeah, so I will say compensation is the hardest thing that I would want to be in compensation, that I think I do in my role, because I think people think that we pull a number out of the sky and it's like, well, she looks like she's worth this, he looks like he's— it's not, you know, it's—

that's right.

I like to say compensation is a little bit math, a little bit science, and a lot of magic. So, so to your point, I try to take the job description. I do use a tool. I don't know if you guys are okay with me saying what tool I use. I find it to be helpful, but I use PayFactors. And so, I'm able to take my job description, take a look at that. I try to find my benchmark and look at those classifications, Linda. And determine, are there things that are in my job description that are missing on that classification and vice versa? So we do kind of a blend. So I will tell you that sometimes a person— titles are what's hard, and especially if you do—

titles are really hard.

Sexy titles in your organization, I would advise you not to do that.

Don't do that.

Yes, very misleading. You won't find benchmarks. But we do have some people that are director level roles, but then when I look at their, the classification for that benchmark, it's like, they're really a manager.

Yeah.

Because they're working at this level or vice versa. Right.

Yeah.

I try to do a blend, but it really is, that's where I, this year, I opened up compensation because it's such a taboo topic. So I met with some managers, I met with some directors, but I just opened the books and I showed everyone the process. And then I said, okay, is this really the job your person's doing? And if you tell me that they meet this classification, then we are going to have to increase their pay to this level. So I try to keep it an open communication and be very transparent about it.

That's what I love about what you guys do, honestly, Tisha, is everything that you've described to us between the first time we interviewed you back in January and today, there's such a high level of transparency, which then gives you— Right. And then that inspires trust, which also then inspires buy-in, which then inspires me to have a sense of ownership into the process and into making sure that everything is supportive of the business and of the employees and everything in between.

And it creates a culture of belonging. That retention rate makes sense when we hear everything that Tisha shares with us because why wouldn't you want to work for Globus? I want to go work for Globus now. I'm hiring. You know, it's like, I think that that is really important. And what I love about everything that I've heard you say too, Tisha, is it's not that all of the burden sits on human resources. You're leading, you're guiding, you're leading your leadership and your organization. But then it's in their hands. Like, it's a group thing. This isn't an HR thing. This is a group thing. Group thing. But HR is leading this effort, and that's what I love. Like, it's not, um, you're not—

conversation—

you're out. Yeah, you're on the front ends and you're having those conversations and really leading.

Yeah, I'm not the wizard. I'm from Kansas, but I'm not the wizard. I'm not going to stay behind the curtain, you know, and hide from it. And we don't— we don't always get it right. We don't always get it right, and there will always be people that you're unhappy about that. But I'm trying to be honest about it. I'm trying to be Transparent about it. There are people who have come to me and said, I wasn't happy with this part of my job or with this compensation. And then I just say, OK, this is the information I have. This is what I'm working with. And they may not be happy with the answer, but at least you just address it, right? And so that's where I think these calls also help. It's like, I can't solve everything that people are coming to me with. But I can at least say, I heard you, and I will look into the thing. That I think I can solve. And so, I try to take the low-hanging fruit. You know, if someone's upset about missing a resource, just give them the resource, right? Get them the resource if they need it. Compensation's a little harder. So, maybe that one we need to put on the back burner and tell them we'll look into it. So, that's where it has been really helpful for us is just we take the low-hanging fruit and we just try to avoid losing our really hypos. As you said, Cindy, I try to avoid losing those people.

Yeah.

So that's—

and sometimes it's the little things that matter because if you're really happy in your job, unless you're making, you know, a pauper's wages, if you're happy in your role and it's just some things that you need, sometimes compensation becomes the topic, but it's really not what's driving it. It's not really that it's— because we all know if you give someone more money and they're still— and they're not happy in their role, that money is only going to make them happy the first time they get it. And then that's it, right? I mean, then they're over it. The high is over and now we're back to being unhappy. So if you can kind of get to the root of what it is, is it really compensation or is there something else that's driving that? And then to your point, Tisha, if you can hit the low-hanging fruit, those little things, like if the problem is that I don't have the technology I need to do my job effectively and I can provide that to you, why the heck wouldn't I provide it to you then? Or if I need some training and I'm not getting that training and it's making it difficult for me to do my job, give me the training. I mean, because then I'm going to be be happy, and I'm also going to feel like you're vested in my long-term success.

So, yeah, yeah, I love what you said. Uh, I wish you would, um, just frame that. If compensation come— it's usually not about compensation. It's normally never— to your point, unless you are living off of pennies, it is usually never the issue. And I just had that conversation last week with someone. I said, this person has complained about compensation since the day they were hired, and they knew the compensation.

Right.

That's it. You know, I was hired in that. Yeah. That's it.

So that means it's bigger than that, or they truly just are maybe in a financial situation that we can never— Right.

And that can also be sometimes too, right? And that's, again, getting to the root of what the problem is. And that's having those conversations to understand because sometimes, exactly to your point, there's a personal issue that's happening, and that's what's driving that compensation conversation. It's not really that they think they should be making a lot more money. It's just maybe they're in a situation that requires them to have more money.

So, yeah.

So, Tisha, you've spoken a lot about the process. You've talked about the question. I mean, you've given us so much gold here. I'm hoping that our HR community has like rewatched this one a couple of times because there's some really good stuff. Yeah.

Go back and listen to.

But how have you found overall that the employees employees have reacted to this approach?

They have been really positive. I periodically will jump in and do them as well. But from my team, it's— I hear often that people are saying, thank you for reaching out. Asking.

Yeah.

Thank you for asking. Because so often HR in particular is— we're held on this pedestal and that you only come see me when there's a problem.

Yeah.

Right. So, we need to change that narrative. That's one of those social norms that I wish we could change. You know, I really dislike if I walk into a room and people say, oh my goodness, there's HR. So that was another selfish reason as to why I want my team to do this, because it just changes the narrative. But we get so many thank yous of, I really appreciate you asking, or today was really a tough day. Or, you know, we've also uncovered people that are ill and they need to find out information about leave, but they didn't know. I mean, so it is just uncovering so many things, but our employees, I would say, are appreciative. Of the calls. Even the long-term people who are always going to be maybe your grumpy people and give you the same answer every time, I know that they also enjoy it because if you miss it, they will point it out.

You betcha. Yes, I love that.

Yeah.

No, you know what else I really like here too, Cindy and Tisha, is our Logan, our producer, he had told me, he said we had gotten some reach-outs from people questioning, like, you know, not all of us have the advantage of having good HR. And so, I hope that for our HR community out there and our listeners is that Tisha is an example of what HR really is. And it always makes me sad when I hear that people have had such a negative experience with HR or that HR has a negative connotation because in most of those cases, it's a stereotype around HR. It's not really a true indicator of how good or bad their HR department is. It may be a leadership or it may be a person, but it's not indicative of HR. And I think that HR has gotten a bad rap over the years. And so I hope to everybody listening out there, this is HR. What Tisha is doing, her leadership, the role that she plays in her organization and with her employees and her— and her— everyone who works at Globus, this is what HR is. So I really appreciate you sharing with the community the way that you have.

Thank you. And I think all of the folks that you've had on your podcast have represented that we are more than that scary little office in the corner that used to be called personnel that you would go to, you know, and we're not perfect, but, you know, our goal is to ensure that people can grow and be fulfilled in their roles, but also we'll be there for you during the tough times. And yes, there are going to be tough conversations, but we're agents for change. And that's the most important thing I think I like to tell people. I always tell people, I don't hire HR people. People who tell me the reason they're in HR is because they love people, because people will disappoint you, right?

Yeah.

And, oh yeah.

But I, but I think if we come at it in a way that I'm in HR because I want to be an agent for change, and most of the time that change is always positive, but sometimes there will be negative parts of that change. But if you want to be a part of that process and to help people move forward and be fulfilled, then I do think HR are, um, is the right place for you. But we are totally approachable. Uh, we want to hear you're good. Oftentimes I tell people, don't just call me with the bad. Call and tell me about your vacation, or yeah, you just made that great sale. I want to hear that too. Um, and so that's where the anniversary calls has, you know, helped maybe stroke me and my team's ego a little bit as well. And I could not do these— this program without my team. I have an incredible team who it's not always easy to schedule all of these 15-minute calls, but they do it with such poise and grace, and the employee base really appreciates it. So kudos to my team for taking this on.

Absolutely.

Love that. That is so cool. Thank you. Is there any— just to sort of kind of close this out, there's so much good stuff here. Again, I just think people will need to watch this one a couple of times because it's so good. And maybe go back to the January episode as as well. If we could maybe link that one here too, I think—

Oh, great idea. We'll make that recommendation to our producers, Cindy, to tie these things back together to say, "This is the one.

Now listen to this one." Any sort of final advice that you would leave us with today, Tisha, and for our HR community?

Yeah, so you had said it, Cindy, that feedback is a gift. And so I think if you want to know how you're doing, you can't be afraid to ask that And some gifts we have to return, which is okay. But most of the time, you're going to get nuggets of information from doing some type of process with your employees, why they are your employees. I feel really strongly waiting until someone is leaving the business is too late. So, do what you can. We need to get away from reactive HR and go to more of a proactive HR. And so, that's what I think doing some type of stay conversation or anniversary conversation will help you is it helps us become more proactive practitioners.

I love that. And even just all the data, like you were saying too, Tisha, to be able to just kind of trend it and over the years kind of look at different things. I mean, look at what it's done for your organization going from 61% retention to 89% and maintaining 89% is incredible in the world that we're living in right now. So kudos on that.

Thank you. Yeah, and if you're going to ask the data, you better act on it. People will stop giving it to you if you don't do some type of follow-up to say, I heard you. Here's what I can do. Here's what I can't do. But you have to act on the data if you're going to ask for it.

I agree with you, Tisha. Data tells a powerful story if you're willing to read it, right? I mean, and if you can really take a look at it and you can see— I remember when we worked at the city, Cindy, we had a department that— I think 50% of the employees were on some type of a leave of absence. And so, you would expect, well, you'd see a high overtime rate because, well, half the workforce isn't working. What's the other half doing? And we didn't see any of that sort of stuff. So, really being able to trend that and look in and find out what's going on in that workforce because there's so much that you can tell. And that's the thing is I think exactly what you're talking about there, Tisha, is data can tell a story if you're willing to read it. And then, And then what are you going to do about it once you've read the story?

So yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. How can people get in touch with you, Tisha?

You can find me on LinkedIn under Tisha Deden. And we can certainly connect that way. And I'm happy to share with anyone kind of the templates that I have for our anniversary calls, for our quarterly pulse checks, anything I can do to help other people kind of get in this proactive approach.

I think it's so much better and it makes perfect sense. So thank you for sharing everything that you've shared with us today, Tisha. We really appreciate it.

Absolutely. No, definitely. We're going to have to have Tisha back again in another 9 months or so to hear what new amazing things she's doing, right? Because we've seen such incredible growth since January with new ideas and everything else. And so we'll have to have Tisha back to talk more and to share with our listeners all of this amazing, amazing advice.

Anytime, anytime. And I want to shout out both of you. What you're doing is really tremendous and great for the community. So thank you.

Thank you, Tisha.

Yeah, we're proud of it for sure. Well, given— Go ahead.

Wrap up.

You started, you should wrap up.

Okay. Well, I do have some news to share with our community. So speaking of this podcast, which has been one of the, like, such a highlight in my career, it was what, a year and a half ago, Linda, that you came to me and and said, hey, I'm going to start a podcast, and I was wondering if you might like to co-host it with me. And my first question to you was, who is our audience? And our audience was going to be HR.

Well, first she said yes, then she said, who is our audience? I just want to be clear. That is true.

That is true.

Yes, and who is our audience? And our audience is human resources and leaders. And then, of course, with my HR background, and Tisha was a big part of that as well, so this is awesome. I get to talk about this with you on here with us as well, Tisha. I have decided at the end of September that I am going to sort of wrap up my co-hosting duties here at the HER Resources Podcast, but I will continue to be a huge fan. I will continue to listen to all of the episodes and get all the goodness that Linda and I make. But yeah, it's just, it's time, I think, for me to— the business has sort of stabilized and is continuing to grow, and I'm really excited about that. And I've got some personal things that I'm excited about, and sometimes you have to sort sort of step away from some things to make room for other things. And so I'm very excited, a little sad. It's, you know, kind of a double-edged sword, but I feel very proud of what we have done here, Linda and Logan. You know, we've grown to almost 500 in our community now. And I think this is over 50 episodes now as well. And I mean, when we Yeah. When we originally started talking about this, I was like, well, let's just do one season. And we did one season and then we did two and we've—

Cindy should know me better than that though, Tisha. I mean, I don't ever do anything just one. So I'm so proud to have had her on this journey with us for sure on all of this. So yeah, no, it's been an incredible— and we're not going anywhere. The HER Resources Podcast is still here. We're still going to be serving the community. And like I said, Cindy is still a part of this family and we will always, um, she will always be back. Um, I said, I can't think of a better change guru than, than Cindy. And so she'll always be there and we'll continue to reach the community. And, um, I'm so happy that you've, uh, that you've been here with me along this journey. Yeah.

Congratulations. The best pursuit you can ever take is pursuing yourself.

So, ah, I like that.

What a nice way to go. That is good.

I love you guys. You're awesome. You're both awesome.

Yeah.

Yes. Well, to all of our listeners out there, thank you for listening to us today. If you like the episode as much as we do, please like, subscribe, share. I think this is definitely one to keep in your back pocket to go back and listen to. Great, great advice from Tisha. So super happy that she was back. We'll have her back again to talk to all of our HR community out there. And to everyone, thanks and have a blessed day. Have a day.

Thanks so much for joining us for this episode of the HR Her Resources podcast. We're so happy to have you with us on this journey. Music and production by Logan Mesegades of LJM Productions. We'd also like to thank our intern Lauren Vaness for creating our logo and supporting our social media postings. If you'd like to connect with Logan or Lauren, you can find their information in the show notes. If you found value in our discussion and think someone else might as well, please follow, subscribe to our LinkedIn, and share with a friend. Until our next episode, please take care and continue to support one another.