Episode 1: “Mastering the Art of Communication”

What I'm hearing a lot lately is about practicing and practicing on video. Where the old school method was stand in front of a mirror and look at yourself and try to do what you're doing and analyze yourself at the same time.

Yet another good reason to keep phones out of schools. I was just watching Jonathan Haidt, the social psychologist on Bill Maher this week and he has a new book out recommending absolutely no, no cell phones for any kid below 16. Tell us about some of your less than huge success speaking situation.

I was doing stand up where just absolutely awful and I almost had my face rearranged.

But Jess, what do your family members tell other people about what you do for a living?

They think it's public speaking training. I guess those are three words.

In stand up comedy, quite often the audience is sitting there like make me laugh every two seconds or I'm going to be angry and throw things at you. We have a special guest for you today, ladies and gentlemen. He's one of the most renowned media trainers, communications consultants in the entire world. He has trained major political leaders, sports figures, figures well known in pop culture and celebrities around the globe. He's worked at abc, NBC, Fox. He has tremendous experience. He even once set the Guinness Book of Records for most talk show appearances in a 24 hour period in the history of the world. He is a consummate, consummate communicator and and coach. Our special guest today is Jess Todfeld. Jess, so good to see you. Thanks for being with us today.

It's great to be here and sharing today.

Yeah, Jess, this is our inaugural experience on Amazon Live. So happy to be a part of the Amazon family as an Amazon influencer. You've got a fantastic book that continues to make major sales and has fantastic reviews on Amazon. This is the book Media Secrets, A Media Training Crash Course, which is a fantastic book and it shares a lifetime of experiences, anecdotes, incredible stories about Jess's journey as one of the premier media trainers not just in the United States, but in the entire world. So Jess, there are a number of books about media training out there. What's the one thing that people tell you after reading your book? Wow, I thought I knew a lot about media training, but that one really brought in new insights that I had not seen before.

I mean, the one I'm hearing a lot lately is about practicing and practicing on video. Where the old school method was stand in front of a mirror and look at yourself and try to do what you're doing and analyze yourself at the same Time too, too much, Too much to do. But I have. I just had a client again yesterday say to me, past client, say, wow, really, the best way is to record yourself and then look at it and if you don't like it, do it again. How simple does that sound? And the fact that we all have a video recording device in our pockets and built into everything, that's the biggest Aha. That I see. And I'm talking right now not just about being on video or TV or social media, but giving any kind of presentation, anything that's important, talking to your boss about something really important. Why wouldn't you practice anything in life that's important? You. You would practice Now, Jess, these days.

There are sometimes people who are 22, finish college and say, I don't know, I think it would be fun to be a media consultant. Seems glamorous and they hold out their shingle. You actually worked in the media for decades at major TV news networks. What are the things you really learned behind the scenes in the green room and seeing celebrities who everyone thinks is supremely confident, but you can actually see them shaking before they went out on the air? Yeah.

Often I had celebrities who would start freaking out and saying, what are they going to ask me? And I'd say, well, we don't have a script of questions. I said, I did actually suggest questions about your new movie or whatever it is, but they're all basic. Who, what, when, where, why and how. Those are the most basic questions. But are they going to give me a hard time? Are they going to talk and bring this up? Oh, well, I mean, now you're asking me with one minute to go, and it. And it happens to be a news channel or news show at a number of places I worked, so they could. But it's not the. I'm just telling you, it's not the plan. And sometimes they'd say, I don't believe you. Oh, now what are we doing? Right? I mean, you can believe or not, but I don't know what to say. So. But people. People are people. They have insecurities, even if they're at a high, high level. Not you. It wasn't usually politicians who would do something like that, but they worry about the questions. And I know now, Jess, you have.

Had so many different experiences in different parts of the world training. Tell our audience about one of the worst media training experiences you ever had. Something where things went wrong or the person just didn't quite cope. I know I've had clients fall down on the floor going in the fetal position, crying. Tell us about some of your experiences conducting actual media trainings.

A few pop up in my head. I mean, I've been doing this for more than 20 years, and it would be the exception to the rule. But I'm going to start with the crying one because you brought it up. And there's two crying stories. One is I was trading a colleague, somebody that you and I both know, but somebody who was going to be doing a media training for the first time. And I explained a great way to really connect with people is to use examples of past people you might have worked with. And they said, but I have never worked with anybody. And they basically had worked with somebody one time. And he said, well, those are your stories about the one. Just don't say it was last week. And anyway, they were doing a decent job, but the person they were training just happened to be a woman in this case, was so worried and brought baggage from, say, childhood that the very first interview was too much, she started crying. So here this person brought someone to tears on the very first media training. You know, teaching someone to be in front of the camera. That's a rough media training. I mean, I, I, and then just had to, you know, really just kind of, you know, make things calm and try to build up their feeling of, it's okay. This is all practice and, and you should be able to try things out. It was probably 15 years before I hit somebody who cried. But I did have, I'm gonna bring that up, which is I had a husband and wife team. They had a book that they were promoting. They were going to be on, you know, on TV interviews. And again, it was something left over from childhood. And I have seen this even with some CEOs, where they were laughed at or there was some moment that just sticks in their head. And to be able to get over a moment like that, we have to talk about it, you know, so did I ever expect that I needed to somehow be a psychologist to help people be better on camera? Never expected that, but I have, over time, had to look into what to say and what to do and of course, be empathetic and compassionate. So in this situation, husband and wife team, I'm recording them, and the wife had had an experience where she froze as a child once. I only saw that on sitcoms. I saw that on the Brady Bunch where Cindy Brady, that's going back a little while, that reference. But Cindy Brady was stuck, and she was, you know, frozen in the camera. I had really never seen people do that in Real life. One time when I was a TV producer and we had a guest who was on to talk about ostrich meat and how it's the next big thing. And when the interviewer said, so what part of the ostrich is it from? She froze like this. Which also reminds me of Ralph Kramden, by the way. He froze on camera when he was on television. But anyway, this training, this woman remembered freezing as a kid. When she was up in front of the class, people laughed at her. And you know, goes back, it's. It's like those pieces of us, the fight and flight. Flight. Freeze. Fight or flight. So the freeze is one of those things. How do we deal with tough situations? So just to give people, you know, a sense of, you know, what happened next, we have to slow down and work through it. If you, all of you have ever had something like that, working with a coach is obviously going to get you past it faster. But we have to break apart. What. And I try to say this quickly so I could throw it back to tj, what caused it. And then we need to let go of an operating system that a six year old came up with. So if our body runs on, if our phone runs on an operating system that a six year old came up with, it's not the case. It's whatever. I updated recently that. But that would be a problem. But sometimes we're running on an operating system that a much younger person came up with. So we can break past that.

Jess, let's go back a little bit. How did you, how did you even get into this? Who were your role models as a child, growing up as a communicator?

Well, I know sometimes when we. People who end up doing something with public speaking, they look at Winston Churchill or politicians or presidents. I would watch comedians very closely. Jackie Gleason in the Honeymooners. Big, big influence. Just looking at timing or what made people laugh. You know, Robin Williams as a comedian, a very physical comedian. Abbott and Costello. So you might think, But Jess. So does that mean you teach people to go out and do pratfalls and use their, their face?

You can't do that anymore to family members.

Susquehanna, Ha. Costello reference. But I don't say that. But we can be expressive in a certain way and convey in a certain way and tap into people's emotions. So the thing that really I focused on as a kid were all of these comedians because it can get you to have an involuntary response. Now as an adult, I wish I also pair that with what can get people to the Opposite of laughing, which would be crying or an emotion. And I always joke with my kids when I give my mother a birthday card or a Mother's Day card, that I've done it right if she cries. So I really write something extra emotional. I go like that. She starts tearing. And I look at my two kids and I'm like, I did it. And they're like, oh my gosh, this is crazy. But that's another interesting technique. But yes, there was the comedians, those few people, I mean, Jerry Seinfeld at a certain point. But I wasn't as. I mean, I liked his sitcom. I didn't like a stand up as much as the sitcom. But looking at how people use their bodies or word choice to create an emotion in the people who are watching.

Do you remember your first speech that was to more than five students in your classroom?

I remember an early speech that I did not prepare for. I was running for. It wasn't class president. Apparently if I do this, I get a thumbs up on the screen. I was running for president of just my fifth grade class, just the 30 kids, not, not the whole fifth grade group. And I did not prepare. I figured I'd wing it. I don't know why. I just couldn't bring myself to write anything down. And the kid who went up before me, they all had good points. And I was thinking, those are great points. But I had no game plan of where to go. And one kid went up and said I have great muscles. And then he used his hand to push up muscles to see how it would get up. And I was thinking, okay, well that's, that part's ridiculous. But then I went up and I.

Said, really did get a laugh when.

He did that got a huge laugh. And I think it even pushed him closer to being one of the top couple people. Maybe there were five of us. But I went up saying, well, I pretty much agree with Megan and John. Amy had some good points and I reiterated what they said, but I did not stand out in any way. So I got one of the lowest amounts of votes that you can get because I had nothing to say. But it was a good eye opener for me that you can't just go out. You winging it is not a strategy because it has very shaky results. You go out there and you're saying, I don't know what I'm going to say. And I wasn't embarrassed for some reason. So I mean, I guess that's helpful if you're going to be in front of people in the future. I mean, I was, you know, dust myself off and I was fine and. But it helped me in the future whether I was running for a position and I did get certain positions. And it's not like the next day.

People were pointing at you in the hallway and laughing. Nothing really bad happened from it. Correct?

Yeah. Although. Right, they didn't. But it was pre social media. Can you imagine kids nowadays? I mean, if they're recording and then you say, like, this is the moment where Jess ate it. Wow, this is terrible. I mean, we see the politicians who have that one moment. And I think it was Howard Dean, who was running for president in the primaries here in the US I know that Amazon goes elsewhere. And he. They called it the Dean scream. And he was kind of excited, like almost. He got into professional wrestler mode, I think. But he said, we're gonna take Wisconsin and then we're gonna take Michigan and we're gonna take this one. And he got higher and higher until he went. And if that were just in a rally, you just say, okay, great. Pulled out and just put on television. He seemed unhinged because he was screaming and yelling. Yeah, he was at a rally, but it ended his run. So it's interesting to watch. Anyway, so we're talking about kids. I'm lucky that I did not have social media to destroy my whole childhood. If they had taken a piece of, who knows, you know, what I had said, or if I were the kid who was pushing my muscle up as my only platform.

That is a good. Yet another good reason to keep phones out of schools. I was just watching Jonathan Haidt, the social psychologist on Bill Maher this week, and he has a new book out recommending absolutely no, no cell phones for any kid below 16. And no cell phones in schools would solve the problem like that. Just tell us about one of the most effective speeches you've ever given. Everyone's had good days, bad days, things you think are going well and it doesn't. But tell us about one of the best speeches you ever gave, what you think worked, and what kind of response you got from people afterwards.

Well, the word effective is what I should really zoom in on because what. When you first said, hey, we should talk about one of your best speeches. Well, my head went to. I was in a room of maybe 2500 people, 3000 people. It was in Aruba. Group reached out and said, we want you to speak on communication styles and what people can do better and actually how they can even get some media attention. And great. I have plenty of content for that and I can make it fun and interactive. And it was. I was focusing on making it fun and interactive. And as people, as speakers or performers, we can dial up the fun part or the content, and obviously we should have a nice mix of both and be going back and forth. But everybody really was into it and they were laughing at the right moments, so they were nodding at the right moments. And. But that went well for me, noticing that the audience was engaged and focused. But you asked the question of what was most effective. And a lot of times the smaller groups of five people are under. When I've said, try this one thing. You want to be a better speaker, you need to practice coming up with these points. Tell a story. It doesn't have to be the perfect story. I want you to have a point and we're going to record it. I just happen to have one of my fancy video cameras right next to me over here. And I said, we're going to record it, we're going to play it back. And watching them get better and better, which I've had many times. But having them say, okay, now I get it. I'm seeing myself do it, I should do that. Beyond here, when you use the word effective, I know it's effective because people, months later, when we've interacted or years later have said, I still do that. That's how I judge if it's effective or not. If what I shared was actually implemented, did they act on what it is that I said? Most people, when they speak, the group forgets what they said. Think about somebody, all of you people who listening today, anybody who you thought, whether it was a politician or your boss or the head of a company that you worked for, you know, we're interesting. But what do you really remember afterwards? And I mean a day later or five years later? A lot of times, not much. So I know for me, it's a huge success. If somebody says, and this is a conversation I had with a past client the other day, where they said, hey, I still record myself. Hey, I remember this thing you said, and I do it. That is, is how I, I figure out if something is effective. And for everybody else, think about how what people remember, are you memorable or are you just a data dumper?

Do you have any, do you have any speech that really stands out that you remember years, decades later? I mean, I, I do remember. I believe it was 1968 or 60 snow would have been 1967. Mr. Rogers came to my school, my elementary school, my kindergarten. And I remember being in such Awe, I remember when I was getting my Eagle scout in the 70s and the mayor came and his name was John Belk and he, he started his presentation by saying, you know, I love it when my constituents come up and call me an sob I said, oh, that's so nice of you. That stands for sweet old Belk. And it was a. Got a little chuckle. Is not the funniest joke in the world. But for some reason that sticks in my memory now, you know, 45 years later. Are there any speakers that you remember decades later in a similar way?

Yeah, and it would be Tony Robbins. I had been in this field as a communication professional for 10, 15 years and I went to a Tony Robbins event. I figured people always bring him up, I need to go and see him do his thing in person. I had seen clips, he was an infomercials from Grow. So that made him, you know, not as cool in some way. But what I was amazed by was something that he teaches which is using every modality and tapping into every type of emotion and feeling and captivating people through sight and touch and feel and smell. So when you say smell as a speaker. Well, I mean as, as far as touch. I mean he lowered the lights. Now this seems like an HR issue, but we. I remember. Well, I was about to say he.

Had everyone next to you, he used.

To see like, well, that actually feels kind of nice, but I'm sure some people probably didn't want to be touched. But he also turned the lights down and kind of made it a dance party. And he used sound and so nobody can really see in the dark. So you're like, I'll move around. I can dance however I want. Nobody can really see me and use sound and use certain songs that really pumped people up. And everybody who's watching right now has had been driving in the car, had music that's the soundtrack of your life that pumps you up and puts you in a different state. So I was amazed to see a speaker who was demonstrating for three days, three, four days, however long it was, how to put people in a different state. He was teaching how to do it for everybody. But using all of these techniques and it made me realize I could use music, I could use lighting, I could use all of the different methods of getting people to feel something. So. And do I do it as much? I mean not, not quite on the level that, that he does. I don't think I've turned the lights down all the way, but I have had it where people come in and there's Fun music playing depending on the right group. And then people say, oh, this is going to be fun. This is going to be great. They're already kind of excited in the day instead of coming in and there's nothing. And then I okay, let's start. It's a lecture, which is not how I would do it anyway, so that was the most exciting one for me. Who, I'm curious, T.J. walker, who you think influenced you? Who you think was one of the, I mean you mentioned, I guess you mentioned the mayor, that stands out. But someone who influenced you as a speaker.

So the mayor was somebody just, I remember a joke. He wasn't really known as a compelling speaker. Yeah, I had a junior high school principal who went on every single day and ended with a little motivational saying, remember shoot for the stars, you at least hit the moon. So he was someone who kind of inspired me. As I got, I got more interested in speaking. For me it was more media personalities and I was more interested in politicians. So I was very much inspired by William F. Buckley. I was not a conservative, but he was someone who had his own show, Firing Line and giving speeches and books and magazines. Very much a part of American intellectual life from really the 1950s till he passed away about a decade ago. So I was fascinated by political commentators and talk show hosts, including some of the all time greats like Paul Harvey, who had a career that was 60 years long until he passed away, I guess about 15 years ago now. Jess, you are a certified professional speaker. You speak on stages around the globe. You've had successes. But if you're like most people and like me, you've had some failures too. Can you think of that particular speech that didn't go well? I've been practically booed off stages at one point. And are there any types of speaking situations? And you've been brave enough, unlike me, to do real stand up comedy in front of audiences. So we'd love to hear about that particular aspect of communication. Are there any other cases where you're like less than completely proud of presentations? And I know, and I don't say this very often, but in 1980 I was a timeshare salesman. So I was one of these guys on the phone doing the huckstering for timeshares, which was a type of speaking presentation. Tell us about some of your less than huge success speaking situations.

Well, I am going to bring up a time that I was doing stand up where was just absolutely awful and I almost had my face rearranged. But as I lead into that I'm going to first tell you a non comedy story or that was stand up one where I was giving a presentation that I had given many times before. It was called Speak to Close. It's basically where presentation skills meet sales. So it's. How do you speak in a way that is compelling and can get people to take action? And in this situation, it's a buying action. So I was speaking to the New Jersey, Northern New Jersey group of Ashley Furniture employees. Ashley Furniture makes basic furniture you'd get in your home. Beds, desks, dressers. And these were people who just work in their office, work there either selling, but many of them just work behind the register. Customer service representatives, they're called. And they do this, this little retreat once a year. And in between the speakers they win prizes. Hey, you're going to get a Tempur Pedic pillow. Yeah. And they were, these people were so lit up about the prizes. Very excited, like they're going to lose their mind. They're on a game show. But then the speakers came on and they were like, when is this, when are these people going to be done? I want to win prizes. So you saw people kind of lean back into, into their seat. And I only just walked up there. They're kind of like, how long is this going to be? An hour. That's how long it's going to be. So. But I didn't say that. I mean, I went into my thing. So I have a, a presentation that works. Most places people laugh. In certain spots people say, I aha. In certain spots people interact and do an exercise. This group wanted no part of it. I'm bringing this story also up because, you know, some people say like, oh, well, that thing didn't work. You have to sometimes test on multiple audiences to really figure out what worked, what didn't. Even having a video, not just of you, but where you can see some of the audience. Are they being fidgety in certain spots where you think it's working and they're checking their phone, you need to see those things. So anyway, this audience did not want me there. They, well, they didn't want anybody there, I think. And I was pulling out all the stops and I said, here comes an exercise. You're going to pair up people like anytime they get to talk to their colleagues. So it was an opportunity. I said, tell the other, the other person about your weekend. That's all I'm going to say. Talk about your weekend. And it's an exercise designed for people to realize that they are natural and born storytellers, they don't get up and say, I got up and I took my toothbrush out and I went this way and that way, and then I put one on my face. I went to the next room and I took a bowl and I took a spoon. They don't do that data dump. They tell a story about their weekend. Oh, you're not going to believe what happened. Oh, man. I met up my cousin and my cousin's so crazy and this happened. So they tell stories. Anyway, I said, let's pair up. And they just kind of sat there staring at me. I said, no, no, turn toward your. Turn toward it. You guys get to talk about your weekend. Yeah, I don't feel like it. And, and I say, well, you know, indulge me here, try this thing out. And I know I had another exercise. You jump up and you hold your hands up in the hero pose. You'll feel better. And it's based on some study that you and I know about that Amy Cuddy did a TED Talk on. Anyway, they want no part of it. The person, the organizer who paid me to be there at the end said, thank you. I appreciate you being here. I apologize the audience. I mean, this is one occasion they were apologizing for the audience. I know they were just not that into it today. So you know what I learn? Sometimes it really is the audience in comedy. You're told that you really shouldn't blame the audience. And I've been brought up that way. And if we have time, tj, I'll tell you the comedy story. When my face was.

I do want to talk about comedy because I view stand up comedy is really the highest level of public speaking. Because when most situ. The average business person speaks for 10 minutes. And if you get one tiny laugh and you don't bore the audience to death, they love you. They think, my God, that was the best speaker we've seen all day or all week. In stand up comedy, quite often the audience is sitting there, like, make me laugh every two seconds or I'm going to be angry and throw things at you. So I view it as really the highest form. It's frankly one of my areas of failure. I think I've tried to speak in so many different ways. I've failed at stand up comedy. I did take a stand up comedy class about 25 years ago and never even got to the point where I thought or felt this is even mildly plausible for an open mic. So I, I bow down to people like you who've taken the Leap and actually performed in front of people. Tell us more about what's unique with respect to speaking in a stand up comedy situation and what you learned from your time doing that.

Yeah, I learned a lot. And for everyone out there who gives a normal speech or you speak in a conference room to your colleagues, you don't have to be funny. When it comes to professional speaking, they say, well, being funny is very helpful if you want to be paid more. Meaning that you're not only connecting with people intellectually, but you're making it fun and exciting and you're actually moving them in some way to laugh or cry and it'd be helpful. That's why I said the crying part is the part that I have not done so much or on purpose. As I told that story earlier. You don't want people to cry, not on purpose. But the thing that's unique I. One thing I want to bring up along these lines is Judd and your own story. Judd Apatow, the producer, the writer producer, a director of the 40 Year Old Virgin Knocked up a lot of other movies. This is 40. He had said when he, he heard when he was doing Stand up, someone came up to him and said, just so you know, at least the first two years you do this, it's not going to be good. It's going to be bumpy all over the place. You don't even have your voice yet. And I wish someone had told me and I had done it on and off over maybe three and a half years. And I had a day job, I was a TV producer, so I had to stay out really late. It was hard for me. I had a one year old baby at home and I wanted to be present in his life and trying to juggle it. I would perform maybe once a week. And then I had somebody say, you need to be doing this five or six times a week. Holy cow, how would I ever do that? And that was, you know, the beginning of me doing it less. But as far as, you know, what's unique and what can people learn? I think getting up over and over, being willing to be vulnerable and be not good in front of people and how do you save it? I always tell people when we're doing training for presentation skills or public speaking or media skills, that when something doesn't go right, this is your opportunity to shine. Something goes wrong, everyone wants to see what will you do. So comedy is something's going wrong. I don't know every 20 seconds. I mean, if you're brand new. Meaning I said the Thing, it didn't work. How do I play it off? So, you know, I said who? You asked me who early speakers are, who I wanted to emulate or watch closely. I really watched also late night talk show hosts Johnny Carson and, and David Letterman and any of the other ones that were peppered in there, those being the two biggest ones. When I was a kid, Johnny Carson, a joke didn't go well and he kind of go on his toes and kind of like. Oh yeah, like fall, like stumble over, like. Well, the audience not liking that one. Which is what sometimes even funnier than the joke. Him look, you know, looking to the side, you know, like, oh my. The, you know, is this thing on, you know, watching how somebody deals with those situations. We can all take something from that, which is, how do, you know, improvise. Now, everybody else does not have to be funny every, you know, joke after joke after joke every few seconds. But it's nice when there's some moments of levity. I just say this for people who are speaking at, at work, you know, if it's a jokey joke, you know, I'm going to tell a joke. Three guys walk into a bar. Don't do it. Don't, don't do it. If there's a moment for levity, it's nice. But if in doubt, leave it out. If you're thinking, do this, get me fired. Should I not talk about the, the shapely figure of Jennifer in, you know, hr? Yeah, don't do it. Keep that to yourself. Let's not even bring this up. And I've seen people do that. Like, I probably shouldn't say this, but yeah, I'm gonna agree. You probably should.

That's usually not a good way of starting off. Right.

Like this is going to be a problem, compelling for everyone else. And they're like, can you believe that Bob just said that? But yeah, so, but as far as to tie bow on some of this stuff, stand up. You're being as vulnerable as possible. And you don't know if certain jokes work until you're out in front of people. And for the rest of us, if you're just giving a basic presentation, you follow some of the formula that we teach, which is story point or message? Story point, story point. And then have an introduction and have a close. That's a great formula for success. And, and most of the time, even if you're not, I mean, we're used to hearing people who are boring if it's not the most exciting thing. But they got, the audience got what they wanted. Then you're the sweet spot. Okay, fine. Can it be better? Of course. But boy, stand up. I mean, I had Joe, I sometimes to sell a joke, it was the physical. So you can tell a joke that maybe wasn't as funny, but you can say. And then I said, what? What? So it's your reaction to something and people might laugh at that. So there are ways of using that physicality, which I still use just in basic stories, you know. So I tell a story about a time where some. I'm in the middle of just doing my thing. It was actually in a dive bar. Everyone's talking over it. Nobody wanted me there. They said, everyone, everyone stop talking now you're gonna laugh. Oh, then great. And. But this guy stands up and he was all grungy looking and a green woolen hat pulled down and wrinkled lines in his face with dirt and lines and a mustache like a caterpillar. And I could. And he just stood up and he looked at me and I'm like, what? Because there were people were sitting in seats. And he looked me in the eye and he said shoulder rants. And I said, should have what? And he said, shitter ants. Which I should point out means nothing in any language. It doesn't mean anything. I don't have a comeback for shitter ants. I've been practicing all my, you know, I like your face. Haha. I'm going to tell you why. So I'm looking at this guy and the lines in his face, dirt. And I could see the way he was holding his Heineken. It wasn't down here, it was a little bit back. Maybe that's the launch code for I'm going to send this to your face. So I just said, yeah, thanks for playing. Which is not funny. But he sat down. Maybe it was the code. I. So he sat down and I'm like, this is not. None of this makes sense. And then I lost the few people who were sitting down in seats right in front of the stage. It was a total mess. That would be my worst disaster story. Which would happen to be stand up.

I'm glad you didn't get your face punched in. So that is very good news. Now, Jess, you mentioned a moment ago, while you were doing stand up at night, you were also a producer at major TV networks during the day. You've worked at a lot of the major TV networks in New York City. So you've been on the receiving end of people pitching you saying, please, you got to have my client on your morning show or Please, you got to book me to talk about my book. Tell us what lessons you learn that people really need to know if they're trying to pitch themselves to get on a major traditional media outlet or these days on a major, incredibly popular podcast like a Tim Ferriss podcast. What sort of pitches work, don't work? And what are some of the best pitches you ever received? Where you knew, I only have a choice, I have to put them on. And what are some of the worst pitches you ever received?

Yeah, the phrase is where's the wow? Where is the wow? So if somebody says, we have a new book about gardening. There you go. Right. Okay. What about gardening? Well, it's just how you get into gardening as a pastime, and it's nice. That's not enough. But now somebody had said, you can make your. You can morph different types of foods and create foods that don't exist yet. Okay, that's different. Or how you can completely change how you feel every day and have the most energy that you've ever had because you're going to create your own food in your backyard. Well, that's interesting. Or how to lose weight. Only eating fast food, that would be the opposite of gardening. Wow, that's crazy. As opposed, as opposed to fast food is bad for you. So it's. Where is the wow? That's what would help. And then there's a part two to that, which is, what will you say if we interview you? Will you say more than 10 seconds worth of wow? Why? Do we have more of it? So if. So if somebody sent something to me, most of the time when someone's pitching themselves, they did not get to the wow. I had to look through and find something interesting. But I'll tell you a pitch that worked really well for me is somebody, you want to know some of the best pitches? Somebody had said, jess, we have a brand new personal taser that people can get and feel comfortable. And you, you shoot it at somebody who's gonna, who might attack you, and you're tasing them. You know, it's not a buzzer. It's, you know, something shoots out. And I said, wow, this is interesting. Have there ever been ones before? Yeah, but this is really small. And I said, well, here comes the wow. Can we tase someone live in our show?

Yeah.

And they said, hold on one second. They covered the phone. Jess, my business partner is willing to get tased. Just that story was worth telling on the air. And we told it. I said, you have to say that on the air because they said, and there it is. Look at Bob standing over there in the background. And he was standing all nervous. And we're like, how do you feel, Bob? I feel like I was forced into this. I mean, we believe in our product, but I just know this is going to be a rough day ahead because you sweat profusely for the next 24, 48 hours, and, you know, it's not good to get taste. So they said, all right, here it goes. And the guy fell over. And it was funny to everybody who was not him. Oh, it was great tv. So it was also very visual and. And surprising. That's what makes a great guest visual surprise. It's surprising interesting stories that we haven't heard. And obviously that's to mean something to the audience. He would be. That would be one of the best that we had on. We also had this is best and worst at the same time. We worked in live television. We had a guy who had a gadget. I once worked on a gadget show and. And it was basically a big fan that he could put on his back with a parachute and he'd run. He was in our parking lot. We were in a TV channel in New Jersey. It was an NBC cable channel. And he'd run and he'd go, and then he'd jump into the air and fly. And more often, more recently, we've seen some of these things, but we had never seen something like this in 1994. And so he jumped into. Before the show, our executive producer said, I don't really. I'm putting this at the end of the show. I don't really think this works. And I said, I know it works. We were talking about it, and he showed me. You didn't have YouTube, but images anyway, before the show, the guy's up over our building. It was crazy. We're like, this is great. Let's tease it the whole show. And he's going to do it at the end. So at the end of the show, we said, we have 90 seconds left. Let's see this amazing thing we've talked about. It won't start. Just hold on a second. If you've ever tried to start a lawnmower or something, I mean, this should really work. I got it going. All right, but now we have 40 seconds left. And he goes to run. And let's go to the parachute and get stuck on a dumpster. Oh, I just have to. I didn't expect it would get stuck here. And then we get back to. Ran out of time. And. And that was It. So we're all sitting in the control room saying, this is insane. So it was. It didn't work. And then obviously got it working right afterwards. We showed the video the next day. But also, funny when something. I mean, again, to everyone but this one guy who was propping up his business like everyone should buy one of these. Funny to everyone who's not him. But those live TV moments when something's unexpected, even the wow is something that's a little unexpected.

So, Jess, you've worked at major networks. You've been in the green room. You've seen thousands and thousands of celebrities. And quite often there's the perception that a lot of celebrities, they get well known, and all they have to do is show up and everyone's bowing down to them. But, you know, some of them are really good at the craft of being a great guest for talk shows. I mean, Tony Randall was famous for that. I know you've seen a lot of people face to face, and right there, you've seen how they prepare. Think about it. Robin Williams famously would, you know, rehearse bits for weeks before going on a show. Who have you seen in person? Whether it's Richard Simmons or someone else who became dominant in pop culture because of their ability to communicate effectively as a guest on talk shows.

Well, it's funny that you said Richard Simmons like I was sending it to you through telepathy, because he was, as you're saying, I was running through my head all the different people that we had over the years. And I have even notes on some of this stuff, so I don't forget. But Richard Simmons is somebody who is big and over the top, like a Robin Williams. And people who haven't seen him, you know, ever, people a little bit younger than us. And that's his whole thing, his brand. So you'd expect in the green room, the waiting area, that, okay, well, he's gonna dial it down and just, you know, oh, hey, nice to meet all of you, and, you know, have a serious conversation. Meaning that he has different. You would think he has different levels, but he knew the second he showed up that he had to jump into that Persona. So there are no cameras in the green room. He's jumping on couches. He's. He's holding donuts over his eyes, and he's doing things, and they're like, you know, save it for when you go out there later if you don't have to. You know, you don't get to be out there for 45 minutes. Just chill. It's okay, you don't have to perform for me. You know, I booked you on the show. I'll let you relax. And it was interesting to see that he got into character so much sooner. It's not something I recommend for people to. Because most people will burn out. They'll be exhausted 45 minutes later and not be able to go out and play it off. And he was unbelievably compelling. And then we. He did his interview. And it's funny, in the interview, I have seen him get serious and talk about weight loss. I mean, that was his topic about weight loss and. And where people's heads are. Then he went outside, he was throwing donuts. He was making a whole thing about, you know, this is what you serve your people. I'm here to talk about healthy eating and you have these terrible donuts and throwing them around. So. So that was always really compelling. But there are people. And just to pick someone who's a non celebrity who really used storytelling to talk about, actually a book. So right after September 11, there were a lot of compelling stories. So this guy wrote a book called God Winks. And it was about, like, those moments where you feel like maybe someone's looking out for me. And he had nine, 11 stories about, you know, the type of person who were on their way to the Twin Towers and they went, ah, they were going to take their family up in the Twin Towers to look out at the observatory and said, I forgot something back in the hotel. And the rest of the family said, come on, we're halfway there. No, no, I need to get back. I forgot my sunglasses. I'm going to be upset all day if I don't like, all right, fine. And then they lived and they felt like, who was looking after us? How did this happen? And this guy told story after story after story about moments that people had, you know, where they didn't get on a plane or something happened in their. The whole trajectory of their life was changed. And, wow, what a good storyteller. And I think it was because it was a life or death moment. How often do we find ourselves in a moment where we say that one choice could have ended my whole life?

I mean, you know, people relate to that. Everyone likes to think, oh, that could have been me. I mean, like a lot of people, when I saw the Baltimore Bridge go down, I'm thinking, well, I've driven over that. I could have been on that. It is human nature to selfishly think that that could be me. Just big question here. How do you convince clients who are convinced they're not good storytellers, that they can in fact tell stories.

So what I do is I, in a sneaky way, I get them to tell stories. So one of the exercises I brought up to you was I say, I want you to turn to your partner, pair people up. If we have a group class, one of our public workshops that we do every month, and I say, I want you to tell think way back to the weekend. Because now we're like, we're recording this on a Tuesday and people you know, oh, we're into the week already, think way back. And I want you to share whatever it was that happened on the weekend. I'm not going to give you anything more than that. And go. And inevitably people say, well, my cousin came into town and I hate my cousin. And I like, I had to host it. He wants to stay at my house for one day. And then he said, I need to stay for a week. And they make some mess. So anyway, the craziest thing happened. He shows up with, you know, his snake collection or whatever, you know, something like that. You're like, what? And the snake got out. So inevitably they tell a story. And that's a big exercise that I do. I also do one where I get them to sell something and what they're selling, I put an image on the screen of one of those big Hummers, the big, you know, gas guzzling vehicles and, and people launch. People have the skills in them. They are natural born storytellers. Everyone who is listening right now, if we went to dinner, what would that dinner be like? It would be back and forth of, you know, how are things? Oh, they're good. You're not going to believe, oh, this thing that happened. And it's just story after story after story. That's the whole dinner. Watch closely when that happens. Think about it and notice it. Even next time when you meet up for somebody for a meal, you're not trying, you're not saying what would be some good stories to talk about. It just naturally happens. So if that naturally happens, then it would be unnatural if you give a speech or a presentation or a media interview and you did not have a story to tell. And usually it's because you're nervous or you're in a situation that you're not normally in. Stories are sweet spot. Stories are how we communicate. Stories are the currency of life. My financial clients like it when I say that.

Jess, you mentioned successful pitches, people who are great on TV and the great visual and all of that. That's wonderful. Let's go the other side. We live in a culture that says, if at first you don't succeed, try, try, try again. I'm sure you've had certain publicists, certain authors think, well, if I just keep asking him every day for six months, he'll be so enamored with my persistence, he'll let me on his show in front of millions of views. Tell us about some of those situations and why that might not be the best strategy.

Oh, I didn't know you were going to say not the best strategy. I mean. Well, I think the flaw in that strategy, because I'll tell you time when it worked. But the flaw in that strategy is it someone was going to try the same thing over and over and over and over. Isn't that the. What is it we try to say?

The fake. The fake Einstein quote, which Einstein never said. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Exactly. So that would be the problem with try, try again. If you're trying the exact same way, trying in a different way is called practice. And practice makes perfect. We're never perfect. We're human beings. But it will get you to somewhere else that's just a little bit different. So time that somebody was pitching me as a TV producer that worked, they wanted to get out there. And same if you're pitching a podcast or you're pitching your boss on getting a raise, you know, you're perfecting what it is that works. So anyway, this person reached out to me and said, I wrote a book about ghost writing. I'll write books for people, and I write a book on how you can find a ghostwriter. So I said, well, that's interesting to me because I would like to write a book someday and have now obviously written books as well as Media Secret that you see over there. I said, but I don't see. I think our audience on a morning news show would be interested in this, because I don't see where most of them may not want to write something or have another person write it for them. It just doesn't make sense. So they said, can I pitch you again at some point? Sure, I said politely. And so the guy reached out a few weeks later and gave a pitch, but with a slightly different angle. No, I don't. Again, this is not going to work for us. Can I reach out one day if I have a better angle? Sure. So he did. Over and over and over with terrible angles over the next nine months. And then one day, and this is the in the year 2000, we had a presidential election and we had. We were in the primary season, and there were all of these different Republican candidates, all these different Democrat candidates. And he had said, guess what? You're not going to believe this. Almost every single one of them have a book. And I said, okay, I mean, I believe it, but sure. And he said, but here's what you don't hear anybody saying. I can tell you who wrote their book and whose was ghostwritten. And guess what? Only one or two of the people actually wrote their own book. I said, that is interesting that these people are running for president and they're touting a book that's. This is what I feel about America. And they didn't even write it. So I turned, I said, hold on a second. And then I turned to my executive producer and explained the, the pitch and my executive producer. And don't forget this person been pitching me for six months. The executive producer said, okay, tomorrow at 6:45am you know what they're. They, they got through. So the reason was they were able to keep adjusting. Adjusting. It would be nice if it were shorter than nine months until they had. They figured out the what's in it for me, the what's in it for the audience. Now, it wasn't pitching a book about ghostwriting. It was about a topic, about something in the news that we talk about. There was no news hook. So you have to. Yeah, so those are two examples, I mean, of, you know, what works and what doesn't work. They really found something that mattered to me and to my audience.

But, Jess, what do your family members tell other people about what you do for a living? Because, as I mentioned, some of my family members say, oh, we don't know what TJ does. We think he just BSes all day long. How do they describe what you do?

They think it's public speaking training. I guess those are three words, you know, even if it has to do with the media, you know, getting people to be in front of the media in some way. So that would be my immediate family. But I noticed that as soon as we extend out to my father, who's now in his 80s, but he, he has always said, how's your good luck with your speech tomorrow? And I say, it's not a speech, it's a whole day. I'm going to spend eight hours with a group and they're going to work on these skills. And he would just say, huh. So there's some sort of block that family members have. I'm not giving a speech for eight hours, but he would always call it a speech. And I think that a lot of clients I work with who have jobs that are very nuanced, maybe they do something with numbers and data that it's hard to explain to family. And maybe the way around that would be the smallest number of words they can think. So for somebody like me, you can think of a teacher. Okay, teachers teach something. Well, I teach people who are professionals either public speaking skills, and then maybe they have to try to know what that means. And of course, speaking on camera or in what media means nowadays, which is a lot different than when you and I first started. But, yeah, I find that it's common across the board. I'll bring it up and usually get a laugh when I'm in front of people saying, you know, good luck. Your family trying to articulate what it is that all of you do, and they're like, I don't really know. And it's tj so you don't feel bad. Paul Reiser, who's a comedian and an actor, he. He. He had a child right when his TV series Mad about yout was ending. And so the kid always grew up watching his parent, always checking the voicemail to. To see what, you know, gig might be coming in. So the kid described his father as. My dad checks voicemail for a living. That's what my dad does. He checks voicemail. Okay, well, great. Meanwhile, he'd been a producer behind the scenes, you know, during those years and all that.

If your dad's Paul Reiser, you probably think your dad spends his day opening checks with lots of money in it, too.

Money just spills everywhere.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's interesting just to tell the.

Secret to how can you become more convincing when you're talking to people? What statements can you use to really convince people to do things you want them to do? What are your secrets there?

So I'm going to change the word from convinced to persuasion. We're trying to persuade people in a certain way. We think by speaking to their logical mind. That neocortex, you know, this makes logical sense, that that should be enough. But we need to take a step back, which some people call it The. The caveman brain or the crocodile brain, you know, that oldest part, which is in charge of, you know, fight or flight or it were the. It's also in charge of. Is this important for my survival and maybe even my business survival, my work survival. That part of the brain is the gatekeeper. You got to get past that to Convince people even just to pay attention. So step one might be to say, if I'm just talking about public speaking skills, and I already did it, as you and I have been talking on some of these streams where I had said, look, it's not just giving a speech if you're speaking in a conference room to some of your colleagues or on Zoom if you're trying to get. If you're at a performance review and you want a raise. Now, that connects with. And I'm watching some of the comments come in here, so people please ask your questions. But if that is something that those people would experience, and most of the people who are listening probably would be in a situation where they need to make something happen. So if that's the case, I've gotten past the gatekeeper where they're saying, oh, I should pay attention, maybe this is important. But what most people do is the opposite of that. And this is why you can't convince people. You open up by saying, okay, I'm going to tell you everything. I'm going to tell you. That's the old Dale Carnegie model of tell them what you're going to tell them and then tell them, and then tell them what you told them. And my problem with that in 2024 is people are like, get to the point. So they said, well, today, here's the whole outline. Here's where the restrooms are. Here's a little housekeeping about my style. Now let me tell you a little bit about my bio. Yeah, I don't care about you. You and your bio yet. Right? Everyone's taking a nap. They don't realize why it's important. But if I said, you will 100% double your income if you pay attention to what I'm saying right now. Imagine how your life would change if you had twice as much money. And you may say, I don't need any more, but would it allow you to be a philanthropist? Would it allow you to help put a family member through college or help them make payments on their house? And this is doing something. I'm just making this up right now, but this is doing something that won't add that much more work to your day. You could do it if you're a retiree. Okay, get ready. Here it is. Now people are paying attention. Like, all right, you got my attention. So that would be the number one people need to do. Aran, is you need. If you want to convince people, you have to connect to their. Why? Why is this important?

And also, if you could be more specific what, what specifically were you glad to hear about? We would love to know more about that. Jess, is there any piece of advice you give your clients that really strikes them as contrarian or even shocking? People come to me all the time and say, well, T.J. i'm afraid of public speaking. And they expect me to be very comforting and say, oh, that's okay, Meditate, drink green tea. And I say, guess what? You should be fearful of public speaking. Chances are you're going to be horrible and bore people to death. Now, I lead them on a way to solve that problem. So I don't seem quite as harsh. But is there any piece of advice that you give to people that strikes a lot of people as contrarian or even confusing initially?

I wouldn't say confusing initially. I know a funny one that you tell people and tell clients, which is you say you should cheat and you kind of pause for the effect and a what cheat? Well, cheat ethically, that you should have a bullet pointed list of what you want to do and that's how you have your notes. So I don't use the word cheat, but it is funny because it evokes that emotion. Like I shouldn't cheat. I lose my job and it's the wrong thing to do. And you know, cheating on any level is terrible. So I don't use that word. But I do say to people, and this is a way to get them comfortable and practicing and making mistakes. I'll say today, when we're doing a training, public speaking training, media training how to be in the media in some way, I'll say, today is the day not to be perfect. Today is the day to mess up, try things. You want to mess up with me, you don't want to do it out in front of the rest of the world. In fact, it would be fine and be a good thing if you do something wrong here because you probably won't do it ever again. Like, oh, I didn't know that we're before when I didn't say things like that, people would mess up and they'd be beating themselves up for the rest of the day and they'll say, no, great for you. Good for you to do that. Now let's practice one more time on video. And now let's see whether you're telling a story or giving a media interview, I'm going to hit you with some of those same types of questions or situations. Now let's see how you do because you know what to do. They'll say, that's right, I do know what to do. But in my early days, they would just, you know, I would grill them and I would say, okay, you can practice. We're gonna do it again. But they would still just be so stuck worrying about it. So that's usually a surprise when that people, you know, kids know they play video games and they know they have to fail over and over and over and over to be great. But for some reason we grew up or people who, you know, there were video games when I grew up, but maybe not as much as. As time on it as my kids. And we are tougher on ourselves if we make a mistake. So it's that mess up over and over and over. And that does surprise people. And when they're open to doing ends up going their way.

You know, the power of making mistakes. I have some level of success. People have noticed and say, congratulations, but so much of it is just because I'm willing to make more mistakes than other people. We've made mistakes going live today in this sort of first version of our podcast and doing a lot of things they don't always work out. But that is ultimately the only way to learn. It's quite often the really the fastest way to learn and experiment.

And by the way, you know, you talk about practicing, they. They say to become great at something, you need 10,000 hours like flight training to really be great at something. And actually Tim Ferriss, you brought him up earlier, says we don't quite need that much just to get pretty good at something. But something that you've been doing with these live streams is broadcasting three hours a day. And you said you're going to do it and not be perfect in front of people for some of it because you want to get great at it. What can you learn every single day if you did something for three hours a day? And I'm sure every day you keep learning something different, something.

Good point. And I'm sure you've heard the old Tony Robbins anecdote where people say, how'd you get to be a good speaker? And he says, you know, very simple. I was doing a speech at breakfast, a speech at lunch, a speech at dinner, seven days a week. So in the end of a week, I did more speeches than my competitors were doing in two months because they were happy doing one speech a week. So he was able to get so far ahead of the. And build those reps, because I do. We can debate some of the substance of Anthony Robbins for the most part. I think he gives out good ideas, but you could quibble with anyone. But I don't think there's really any debate that he is a true master of controlling and commanding the audience. And when it comes to speaking in front of large audiences, he is an extraordinary master. It does lead me to my next question with you though is other than Anthony Robbins, who do you really respect as a communicator? That's who's well known in the world. People always ask me who my favorite speaker. I don't really have a favorite, but I would certainly say, you know, Oprah Winfrey is still no doubt a world class communicator. Who do you respect?

I tend not to pick politicians. I mean, I'm going to tell you who it is in a second. And I probably don't have a main favorite or certainly somebody who's. They do tend to be comedians, but I'm going to pick a non comedian. But the reason why I don't pick politicians and a lot of people do, is I know that there's an agenda behind it, that they're trying to do something to connect with heart and mind so that they can move people in a certain way and to vote in a certain way. So I tend to and I think some can do a really nice job at it. I also know that they have speechwriters, the rest of us don't have speechwriters who can do that. So I probably switch over to say Simon Sinek, who has a very popular TED Talk about Find the why. And I've listened to some of his other stuff. I'm curious how some of these people are in their personal life. Meaning that he's compelling and really commands the audience and takes you on a journey and makes some points and weaves you in and out and think that he's an interesting speaker that way. But he's also brought in that something that he's had trouble dating. I'm curious if in his personal life he tries to pontificate and then, and then it doesn't work with that audience, with the other person says I'd like to talk a little bit too. And maybe that's an occupational hazard for people who speak a lot. But I've always, I mean, I mean if I were to say for real, it would be comedians who can, when you see some of them who can also talk about something serious as well. And they're playing both ends of the spectrum. So for me, that one step even further, that involuntary action for getting someone to laugh and that involuntary action to get someone to cry. And I mean, what's coming into My mind is probably Rob Williams, who, if, if you've heard Robin Williams in a, in a talk show type interview or somebody in interview, you've seen him very, very calm, talking about something serious and maybe even just about like homelessness.

He was a big proponent of helping the homeless.

Yeah, usually, I guess we're supposed to.

Say, I'm not quite sure.

Right, right. And I, and I, I wish he had talked more about his own issues of depression or anxiety. So. But it's in. So somebody who can, who can do that, who can make us feel something. And Aruna was asking earlier about convincing. I mean, they're, they're using all of the various techniques or most of them to get to take us somewhere, you know, somebody. So how do we do that? I mean, so when someone talks about their own vulnerability or tells a story about somebody, if we're talking about homelessness, something that we put, we automatically put ourselves in that position of thinking, what would it be like if I lost everything? And then I was stuck and I was sitting there and I. How, how would I figure something out? Could I ask somebody for help? Or what if I couldn't ask somebody some? But, so, yeah, I, so I would say the real answer would be Robin Williams. What. What do you think? For you, who are your top people or person that you think is an amazing speaker?

I mean, Oprah is definitely one. When you, you know, she was given, I don't know if it was the Cecil B. DeMille Award a few years ago and gave such a. A compelling speech. So compelling people were saying she should run for president. I actually do like politicians, and the problem for me is not that they have an agenda. I want a politician to have an agenda of making the world better and following through on it. The problem for me is if I say it, then someone thinks I'm endorsing their policies, and if they don't like that person's policies, they then think I'm making a political statement and hate me and all that sort of thing. So a bunch of politicians, I would tell you, I like a lot as communicators, but it muddies up the water in our current highly politicized times. Jess, let's shift gears to a particular type of speaking that makes people very uncomfortable, which is pitching, pitching themselves, talking about themselves, whether it's in a job interview, if they have their own business, pitching their wares, so to speak. I want to give you an opportunity to pitch your website, pitch your services, pitch your training, and then step back and tell us why you're saying some of these things. So you know, we were on Amazon live earlier where Amazon only wanted us to pitch stuff on Amazon. But let's now talk about your other services and your websites.

Yeah, okay. So if I were to make a pitch to people, I would say the people who are tuning in today are probably professionals, meaning you do something. Some people might be retirees or in between jobs, but wherever you are in that spectrum, you probably need to make something happen to progress in your job, in your career, in your business. And the secret would be how you connect with people, if you're connecting with them emotionally, if you're making something happen. And good news is there's a template for making that happen. And that's what I teach in any speaking situation, whether it's speaking on Zoom or in a conference room or if you're going to give a podcast interview. All of these, especially when they are important or when you want to make something happen, has a template for you moving forward in your life. That's what I teach now. I teach it in a few different ways. You can join a group workshop. We could do a one on one. There are lots of ways. We, we have online courses, but what I usually do is talk to somebody. We have lots of people come through and maybe they just buy one of the online courses. But if somebody has a real need something coming up, they tend to take a step forward and say, okay, I want to ask you a few questions. And guess what, I want to ask them a few questions too and find out what are they trying to create as a result of a presentation or a media interview. It's not just about not looking like a fool in the moment. That's what people tend to say. I just don't want to look stupid. It's not just that. It's what, what is over that hill? What's the reward? And guess what? Climbing that hill isn't as hard as you think. So I'll take a step back for a second and I didn't actually give a plug. I guess I should say let's do that.

And would you prefer people go to results first training just toddfeld.com where do you want people to go? And as we're editing this podcast together and putting show notes, what's the website you want people to go to?

So let's have them go to mediatrainingworldwide.com where you there are two buttons on there and one of them says, hey, we have all these online courses and all different ways that can help you in life. Personal development or speaking or being on a panel or a zoom job interview, you name it, or one of our various in person programs, you know, live group or one on one. Or any of those people can go. It's easy to remember media training worldwide. There are a bunch of different ways, too many ways.

That's great in full disclosure and that's, that's me as well. But yes, you have your own entities and people often reach out to you for keynote speaking and specialized services workshops on pitching the media. The best place to reach you for that is.

Yeah, best place would be results first training dot com. And there's also all different types of training. Sometimes it's me, sometimes I have one of our partners who might do a very specific type of sales training or soft skills or, or you name it. And people should, I mean we're talking, we're going to peel back the curtain and talk about what makes a great pitch in a moment. But people should go over to one of Those websites, results first results plural first training.com and check out how it can help you. And by the way, T.J. that was one of the techniques which is you must tell people what to do. And while I don't usually bring up politicians, there's a great story. George W. Bush and I have stories from people on both sides of the aisle and independence and other stuff. But he had said when he lost when he was running for governor of Texas and then he later won, he asked somebody, why didn't you vote for me? And the person said, well, you didn't ask. And it was a huge eye opener for him that in asking for the person's vote and think about it, if you ever asked somebody to help you, people who are tuning in today and said, hey listen, I'm asking for your help, can you come over and help me move a couch on Saturday? They might say like, okay, but you need to ask. You can't allude to the fact that you have this very heavy couch that needs to get out of your house. Gee, I wonder what I'm going to do, you know, I mean, you need to ask. There's a power of asking. It's the, it's called the call to action. When it, when you're giving a speech.

Or a very mine. I don't know if my friends are doing better these days or my reputation for physical laziness precedes me, but no one's asked me to help them move.

In a long time and thankfully nobody's asked me to move or pick them up at the airport. But I would do that. I actually have picked up family members at the airport at 5:30am yeah. Which I've said maybe I should just send an Uber for them, but maybe that would be instead in some way. But they. At least they asked. And you feel some. Some level of connection or obligation or especially, you know, they asked me personally. And guess what? You might get a no. That's part of it, too. But it's. What's one ingredient in pitching?

Jess, I want to close by giving you an opportunity to give one last pitch to members of our audience who are holding themselves back. They're thinking, I should be giving this speech, I should be giving this presentation. I should try to do a TedX. I should start a YouTube channel. There's an infinite number of opportunities in the modern world to speak out and reach people, and yet most people hold it in. How do you encourage them to use their voice, to use this powerful instrument to speak out?

Coaching is accessible. It's accessible to you. Oh, I could never hire a coach or something. Maybe it's too expensive. There are all different levels. You could actually have somebody who is guiding you and showing you what to do. If you wanted to be great at anything in life or move forward in something where maybe you're not as accountable when you're only accountable to yourself, you would get a coach. If you really. If you want to lose a lot of weight, you get a fitness coach. If you wanted to be the best, you know, sports, basketball player, you know, basketball player, golfer or whatever, you would get someone to give you strategy. And there are all levels of that, too. It could be one lesson, it could be a thousand lessons. So for people who say, oh, I really like to do this thing, the biggest hurdle is yourself. It's the biggest hurdle. And TJ And I have talked for years about, if someone reaches out to us and said, I have a fear of speaking, the chances of us chatting with them about it, we'll say, okay, well, why. Why don't we just do a call? You'll tell me about what you want to accomplish. I told you, I have a fear of speaking. I could never get on the phone because I have a fear of speaking. Okay. I mean, they don't say that, but that's how it plays out. So it's a group that's hard to connect with and help when somebody is sharing that with you. So the biggest obstacle is you, yourself, everybody. And the biggest solution is, is working with a coach. So, yes, results. First, training. You go over there, you can Click and inquire and find out. But decide if you really want something, you want to change something, whether it's a speaking opportunity or you want to be an author or you want to be on television or any of these things, if you really want to make it happen, there are people who can push you in the right way and get you there faster instead of the long, long, slow road where you might not take action.

Jess Todfeld, media trainer extraordinaire, author of Media Secrets. Thank you for being our guest today.

Thanks for having me.

So let's step back for a minute. And how do you think that interview could have been more helpful to you in your business? Give some feedback and are there any particular questions you really wish I'd asked?

Well, if we were to say, and the goal wasn't necessarily for people who are tuning in, the goal wasn't, how can it be as helpful as it can be? For Jess, it was, can we talk about something interesting? And actually, it's kind of like a Venn diagram. If you really want to be great. Where it's the, what does the audience want? What is the media outlet? That would be tj in this case want, and what is the person being interviewed want? And the intersection is the perfect spot. But if we were, if the goal was, how can we just help Jess? Well, then that would be. I would be teasing people for some thing that they could show up at, maybe a webinar, maybe a special private session where people can sign up. And I would be the whole time giving little nuggets, but holding back a little bit and giving, giving where you go, oh, that's pretty good. All holding back. That would be a good formula for what would serve me really, really well. We weren't trying for that. It was very nice that TJ brought up the Media Secrets book that people can go and check out and find out about. So that's always nice. And, but that, that, that would be a way. If I was completely selfish in what I, what I wanted. Of course, again, I say selfish. I mean, the sweet spot is that people are learning something. The worst way to do it would be you. TJ would say, what could one people do one thing better if they want to be more persuasive and get a raise? And I'm like, ha, you got to read the book. Yeah, that would be terrible. There's no. You need.

That never works very well. There's got to be. You know, there's an old expression. I think Zig Ziglar said it. The more you give the more you get. So many people, yeah. That we've known from the speakers industry from a long time ago used to have the attitude of, oh, I'm not going to do a book or go online because then people won't pay me for my in person stuff. And the most successful people put it out there. And the more that comes back and it's whether it's Jerry Seinfeld speaking for free on the Tonight show before he got his own sitcom, or Paul McCartney to this day performing on major shows, getting, you know, nominal fees because he wants more attention. Give me some feedback. What could I have done better to make this interview better for everyone, for the audience, for you and for me trying to build a podcast brand.

So, so now I'm going to put my old TV producer cap on and think about, you know, what would make it. One thing I learned along the way, and also I've done some hosting and, and learned this as well, is it always seems like it's moving really fast for the people involved in the interview. But when you're on the receiving end and you're just kind of, I don't know, playing it on your phone or you're getting ready. I listen to podcasts sometimes when I'm getting ready, you know, I get distracted by something else and a few minutes have gone by I haven't heard a thing they've said unless something is so, so compelling. So I would load up even more questions. Kind of a speed round. I mean, the best way for a pre interview is to know some of the stories beforehand, but it's time consuming so it's kind of hard to do that. You're doing a longer form thing so people can go longer with the stories. But one thing I did when we first started was I went on my computer to AI. I happened to go to Perplexity AI, which is, it's like ChatGPT, but it's got a few other features. It tells you where it's finding information. And I wrote in there. I'm the author of Media Secrets and I'm about to be interviewed. What should I talk about for 2024? So I said for 2024. So for TJ as the interviewer, it what I find with what I think is interesting about AI and Gary Vaynerchuk brings this up a lot is he said people use it to get answers to things, but you need to train yourself on having it be a co pilot in your life to figure out how AI thinks and how you can think together. So I've Been trying to practice doing more of that. So I asked it in here. We were. We ended up jumping into the interview and I only started looking at it just a little while ago. So it says here, yes, media secrets talk about the media landscape for 2024, the continued evolution of social media platforms and strategies. So, yeah, they are evolving. A lot is changing even in the last year, especially with AI as the, the adoption and TikTok being a prime, prime video being a prime way of delivering information. And we're doing it today. But even that short form, we're doing longer form. It says here the rise of new media formats and how tv, print, radio are continuing to converge with digital online media. I mean, I know I would talk about how if people really want to get a message out a new way is to be the media. That's what's happening today. Right now we're doing it. We're being that we didn't have to ask a gatekeeper. TJ went and connected this to seven different platforms and somebody might write to us from Discord or TikTok or Amazon and say, oh, I like this thing you said. And things like that happen to happen. I'll say, last one or two, since it gave a little list here. But I would do that, tj, I would go to AI because it's your own blind spot of, you know, I think TJ and I like to think, well, I have my human brain that I, you know, worked on over years. I should be able to be smart enough to come up with questions. I think that's a first step to say, here's what I think I'd like to know and what I think the audience might like to know. But here another one is about building a strong personal brand or the evolving role of data and analytics media strategy. I don't know if that's too, that seems like too.

Jess, you gave the anecdote of the politician who lost and the voter said, well, you never asked my, you never asked for my vote. You need to ask for things. So I'm asking you, what do I need to do with this interview? What sort of polishing packaging do I need to do to make you not as a favor to me, but to actually really want to promote it to your whole social network, your Facebook audience, your Twitter feed. So that this is more of a win win because you have interviews and we've all done interviews before with, okay, that was fine. I'm, you know, I didn't mind doing it, but we don't really think of it as Anything special that we're going to go out of our way of promoting or putting on our bio page, putting in our. Our digital press press packet. What needs to happen to this interview to make it really shine as potentially the best interview ever that showcases your talents that you would want to put out? If you know, the Daily show said to you we're interested in you send us like your two or three best clips. What needs to happen to this to get it elevated so that you're promoting.

It and great question. As you'll be interviewing even more people and you want them to promote it and feel good about it. I noticed the average person who does an interview or podcast, let's say when they're done, the way they analyze it is how it felt, not how it actually is. So they'll say, I don't know if I'm going to share that with anybody because I did terribly. That's the way most people think. You and I are not in the majority. We're on camera a lot and we probably think we're better than we are. I guess. I don't know.

I'm on the other end of things thinking once again.

Right. And we need to analyze. I think the best is you have somebody else on your team selecting those best pieces. The highlight that show the guest really saying something interesting, getting fired up, but doing it in a 40 to 45 second ish clip. I guess, you know, shorter or longer. That is kind of a tease. When I think about what I see on social media, when somebody starts to bring something up, where you go, that's o. That's so compelling. And then it just ends, ah, now what? Where do I get more. So I guess short little clips that stop short of saying everything and saying, hey, you got to go over here and listen to the rest of the podcast. I think that would make both parties want to get people to. Yeah. To, to share it. So. And ideally, as I say that if you have your guests think about to maybe make a list of their most surprising, you know, shocking things they can say, even if it's, you know, not shocking to them. But that would be, that would be good, you know, really push people to say those. Yeah, those clips would be the best.

Anything else you really wish I'd asked you today that we didn't do in our formal interview?

Well, I guess if we're talking about the book Media Secrets, it would be the, the changing landscape of media. You and I got into media training. You know, for me it was maybe 25 years ago and for You. It was earlier than that.

1884, my first media training. So four years.

It was. Yeah, it was 1984. And think about how much the world has changed since 1984 and certainly since. Since, you know, 2000. I mean, 1984 is like if we were, you know, in the 80s and we were talking about the 30s, you know, you know, hey, hi, everybody. Good to see you. You know, I'm imagining, you know, they're.

I have a coon skin cap on right now, right.

And. And throwing the pages on, off to the side, you know, when they're doing a talkie on the radio or whatever it is, they. So a lot has changed, even in the last. Well, you know, social media went mobile in 2007 when the iPhone came out. And all of a sudden we're looking and addicted. And that, I think, was a big change. And AI is changing things, so probably more about what's to come. What do people need to know about the future? And one thing I would say is this is a skill that people didn't know they need to have. People knew they. That it's nice to have a public speaking skill. Although some people try to get around it by saying, well, I'm not really a public speaker, so I'm just gonna, you know, sit in the shadows or I'll just. Or I'll open up by being like, I'm not a good public speaker. And here's what I'm gonna say. But we need to have media skills because we're going to be on camera in some way. And I'll. I'll show you the. The worst version of this angle. If I did the whole interview like this, the whole day, or. And then also look to the side and talk to them while I'm looking at the screen of myself. It's a terrible interview. If I did that for our audio.

Podcast listeners just stood up and showed the camera pointing up his nose into the side where he was looking off and it looked awful.

Yeah. If I had no lighting and I have other lights I didn't shut off over here, then I get the raccoon eyes. As. As my wife points out, you know. Oh, you had raccoon eyes during that interview. Oh, thanks. But all of these things are important if we want to be taken seriously and we want to make something happen.

So my first question for you is, what needs to happen in this interview for you to feel like this was a true benefit to you, worth your time? And potentially this interview is one you would have on your media page, your bio page for the next five years because you feel like it showcases your unique talents, skills more than anything else.

I guess it would be us talking about the pain that people have in 2024 when it comes to presentations or media and how the two are mixed together. But the biggest pains so they know next step to take. And the next step could be go get the book. And I might actually say to them if they sign up for the bonus, which they get the book, they go over to the bonus site, I'll give them a 2024 update. Something I'm going to you mentioned the book.

We are going to be talking about this. It's Media Secrets, a media training crash course. What else will make this interview a win for you beyond your typical podcast appearance? Because you do national tv, you do podcast all the time interviews. What else needs to happen in this interview really worthwhile?

We're talking about the book. Of course we can measure book sales. I mean the best outcome is that somebody goes to one of our sites and signs up for a conversation or wants to take part in training. So what is it that I do and what do I sell as training for media or speaking presentation skills? So that would be the perfect outcome. But how do we take one step back? It would be for people to realize how this can be life changing for them in their job and the rest of their life. So for us to really focus on how can change their life, it's not. I don't even use the word tips. I say strategies because tips are throwaways. Oh, this would be nice to do. A strategy is something that can really change the course of where somebody is. So, so that's my take. That would be the outcome that somebody takes a step, connects with me in some way. They don't necessarily have to get the book, but if they sign up in one of the various spots to be able to take a next step.

Okay, so one of the things that is a pet peeve of mine and I'm certainly not going to do it. I sure, I'm sure you've seen so many podcasters have a guest on they say so tell your tell our audience about yourself.

I hate that.

It seems incredibly lazy.

Lazy.

So our special guest today is Jess Toddfeld. He is an internationally renowned communications expert. He has trained CEOs, top tech leaders, professional athletes, beauty queens around the globe for decades. And he does this based on real world experience. He's worked at NBC, abc, box, multiple networks as a high level producer. He's been there in the green room moments before some of the top celebrities in the world are about to go on air and he's seen them nervous and he's given them coaching. He is a Guinness Book record holder. He's appeared on more talk shows in a 24 hour period than anyone in the world. He has written numerous books. His latest book is Media Secrets. We're so happy to have with us Jess Todfeld. How would you really like to be interviewed? What would you like spotlighted more? And what do you think is going to whet the appetite the most of an audience on a podcast? And this is likely to be the first interview ever on the audio version of this podcast. What is going to whet the appetite of people who have some interest in communication skills but have frankly never heard of you or me? Let me hear your version of how if you were interviewing you, you would introduce yourself.

I'd probably start with what is different in 2024? What do people need to know? So it's, you know, playing on the fomo, the fear of missing out, that, oh, if I don't know this, I'm going to fall behind in my career or my life in some way. We've spent the last few years since COVID started being on camera every single day. You and I are doing it at this exact moment. People go on zoom every day. What do people need to know? Whether they're planning on giving a big speech or.

And I apologize for interrupting, Jess, that's interesting substance. I just want to know if people say, who the heck is Jess Toddfeld? Why would I possibly want to listen? I just want to know credentials, background, your past. So we even have an interest in knowing your theories about the present and the future. Can you tell me, you know, pulling anything I said, but also what you would like to see.

I mean, if you wanted to pull something exciting like that, I mean, talking about politicians who go on the air, I know you and I are probably, probably keeping it down the middle. Although I'm not against if you want to bring up politics and what certain people are doing right or wrong. But we can talk about people in the news who are doing something who are out there. Is it something that people can emulate or not? There's some people in the news who are in a category of one and some that the rest of us could emulate. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of edgier if there's something out of the news, you know, what do we make of something? Those are YouTube videos I was just watching getting ready today, brushing my teeth and getting dressed, listening to people talking about public figures. So that might be a good place to go. And then, of course, how does that analysis affect people who are listening in?