Meet & Greet with the Original Into the Woods' Rapunzel: Pamela Winslow Kashani

And welcome everybody to our meet and greet with Pamela Winslow Kashani. I would like to welcome her to the stage, please, to share stories and speak with a bunch of wonderful people. Enjoy.

Hello, hello everybody. Thank you so much for joining me today, and I should say congratulations on winning. You're all winners anyway because you love theater, and so I love to chat with people who love theater, and so we're going to have some fun today. First off, I want to tell you a little bit about myself, give you a little background, and I was once young, bright, and shining like all of you wonderful people and had a lot of hopes and dreams of becoming a performer. I started playing a little xylophone that my parents got me when I was 3 years old, and I— they discovered that I had an ability to pull melodies out of the air and play them pretty well. So they thought, we better get this girl a piano. So they got me a piano, and I started taking piano lessons when I was about 5. Then I added flute, and I added voice in when I joined my church choir when I was 8. So you can see there's a through line here of music. And then I went to a camp when I was 13 years old. I didn't quite know what kind of camp this was, but they told me to bring audition music, so I said, okay, I'll do that. And I went to the audition for the big show, and I really didn't know what I was doing, but I brought the only piece of sheet music I knew. And I ended up auditioning singing Mendelssohn's "O Rest in the Lord," and I got cast as cell block murderess number 2 in the show Chicago. This really happened. And at age 13, I was on stage for the first time, and I was in rehearsals for the first time, and I was creating a role and going into the imaginary world for the first time. and I fell in love with it. And after that summer, I came home and I told my parents, I know what I want to do in my life. I want to be a musical theater performer. I want to get to Broadway. And they were psyched. Then I went back to high school and I told my guidance counselor the same thing. And he said, oh, that's lovely, Pam. I was Pam at the time. Now I'm Pamela. He said, Pam, you're so good at math. So, he didn't want me to do this and nobody could really see it. I was a kind of a geeky kid, nerdy kid with a terrible perm. I know perms were big back then and it was a little bit of a horror show, my hair at least. So, it took me a while to grow into myself. But in spite of that, I was determined and I put in those 10,000 hours and I did it. I got myself onto a Broadway stage at age 21. I was at the first day of rehearsals with Bernadette Peters in the room. I could barely talk, literally barely talk to her, and ended up just having such an incredible ride doing Into the Woods as my very first Broadway show. And oh, there I am. Yes, wasn't I cute? Oh, it's so funny to see those old pictures. People don't change, but your essence is always there. It's fun to see. But Into the Woods changed my life. It really did launch me into the professional world in such a beautiful way. And I've never taken that for granted. I've always been grateful when I look back on that experience and what those genius people, Stephen Sondheim, James Lapine, gave me. In this show. And one thing that they did with Into the Woods that was so incredibly cool is that they filmed it. And as many of you may know, it became a DVD. And so I found that over the years— it's been over 30 years since Into the Woods opened on Broadway. It was 1987 when it opened on Broadway. There are so many people of all walks of life and all different ages that have seen the Into the Woods DVD, now stream. And they, they were affected by it. And so it's really cool how the show lives on. And it's funny that that film stage musical was a huge part of my early career. And now at this date in the present day, film stage musicals are still a huge part of my career. And so not to go through every step of my life between Into the Woods and now, but to tell you that I now am co-founder of Apples and Oranges Arts and Apples and Oranges Studios. And that's my cat in the background. That's Hakata, if you see her walking past. She's very, very cute, but not very smart. But we are doing more of these film stage musicals through Apples and Oranges. And one of them is called No One Called Ahead. And we are doing our premiere on Sunday. It's at 6:00 PM Eastern time and 3:00 PM Pacific time on Playbill. Interested, come and watch us and our film No One Called Ahead. And if you're an Instagram person, I am taking over the NOCA Instagram feed today if you're interested. It's something I've never done before, but I guess you can teach old dogs new tricks once in a while. And I would like to say that I'm happy to be here. And I want to now talk about you all. I want to find out where you're from. So if you want to, I'm going to just ask you to unmute yourself and tell me where you're from. Don't be shy. Megan, Susan, Brianna, Bree. Hey Megan. Hi, I'm from Jackson, Mississippi. Oh, great, great. You're staying safe down there, I hope.

Yes.

Excellent, excellent. Where else? Hi. Yes. Hi, I'm Megan Barton and I'm from Los Angeles, California. Hey Megan, you're not too far from me. I'm in Irvine right now, a little south of you. Thank you for joining us.

Hi, I'm Kiana. I live in Florida.

Hey Kiana, what, what town in Florida are you in?

Port St. Lucie.

Where is that?

It's, it's a really small town. It's like, if you know where Orlando is, it's 2 hours down.

I actually spend a lot of time in Orlando, so I know Orlando well, but I'll have to check out Port St. Lucie one of these days.

It's a small town.

Very cool. Hi, I'm from New Orleans. Oh nice, I love New Orleans, absolutely love it. My cat is chiming in. She wants to tell you that she's from Irvine. Come here, cat. Come here. Oh! Meow! This is Hakata. She likes to be pet. Oh, she's beautiful.

Hi, I'm Gwen. Bree, I'm actually from Baton Rouge, so I'm in Baton Rouge right now.

Oh, very cool, very cool. I've never been there, but I've always wanted to go there. Very nice. I bet it's warm down in the South right now. Yeah, yeah.

Hi, my name is Gabriella Collins, and I'm from Fort Smith, Arkansas.

Hey, Gabriella, nice to meet you virtually. Excellent, excellent. Well, I want to open it up to all you lovely people. If you have some questions for me, I'd love to tell you some stories about Into the Woods or any kind of questions you might have. I have a question. Yeah, yeah, two at once, two at once. Megan. Megan, you had your hand up? Yeah. I would like to ask, what was it like working with such an incredible composer and musician with Stephen Sondheim? Yeah, yeah, Stephen Sondheim. Mind-blowing to have the opportunity to work with one of my idols. I had loved Sondheim. I'd studied musical theater in college, and even before that, I was fascinated by Sondheim. I knew Pacific Overtures front to back and A Little Night Music and all of those wonderful shows, and was able to have seen Sunday in the Park with George before I did Into the Woods the year before. So loving Sondheim, and it was thrilling. He's such a genius. He's also really nice. Excuse me, Hakata. Okay, she's gonna go. Perfect. She's gonna settle in. He loves crossword puzzles. He's a very logical kind of guy, but also super, super creative. So it's fun to be around people like that. He's very witty. He loves to laugh. And when I auditioned, the final audition, I was doing the sides for Rapunzel, and I heard this noise out in the audience, and I didn't quite know what it was, and I didn't want to be distracted, so I just sort of did my thing and stopped. And when I stopped, I realized when I squinted, it was Stephen Sondheim cracking up. He was just laughing off, like, out of his chair laughing. So I thought, oh, that's a good sign. But he's, uh, he's got a great sense of humor, and he's always very, very supportive of actors. He really likes working with actors, and he takes their— he treats everyone with, with equal intelligence. He's always looking for the next lyric or the next better version of a song, and he, he will take the actor's input into consideration. So he's, he's a wonderful guy, and it was a pleasure to do it. Oh, and I will tell you another thing. Musically, when I came into rehearsals for Into the Woods, it was August of '87. The score was written an octave lower for Rapunzel than it is now. And Paul Gemignani, who had been auditioning me, kind of whispered in my ear when we were running through a little section of the show, and he said, next time we do that, can you try it an octave higher? And I said, okay, sure. And I did, and it stuck. So that's why Rapunzel's ah is so high. It's just because Paul knew I had that high register, and he wanted to use that for Rapunzel, and it just sort of became what it was. Great, thank you so much. Of course, of course. More questions?

Um, do you have like a favorite moment in a rehearsal or like a performance that was just funny and stuck out throughout the years?

I have a lot of cool memories of the show, but I'll share with you one that always sticks in my mind. It was a matinee day and it was time to do the scene "Stay with Me," which is obviously a very dramatic scene, and it's between my mom, Bernadette Peters, and me, and I'm terrified and she's conflicted and ultimately terrifying, but then is comforting at the end. And so we're revved up, we're ready to go, the music goes, I do my offstage scream and then she drags me by the hair, and she normally pulls me all the way from upstage right to all the way down to the front lip of the center stage, and then we do the scene from there in this spotlight. And so I screamed, she dragged me by the hair, and she bumped into a tree panel. So the way that the set was were these metal rod panels made to look like trees, and they were set on a computer on tracks. And they shifted every scene to make the woods look a little bit different. So apparently they got stuck. And so we were about, I don't know, 10 feet in and we were stuck. We couldn't get onto the stage. So she dragged me again. I screamed again. We went another 10 feet and we were still stuck. Then she dragged me again. I screamed again. And we were 3/4 of the way through. And then we looked at each other. We went, this is ridiculous. And then we just— she dragged me off stage and we— the curtain came down and she just doubled over in laughter, as did I. And they had to reset the trees and it took about 10 or 15 minutes. And then we went around, we went through the Passover, we went back and we reset and we did the scene again. Little things like that. Sometimes when the mistakes happen, it's the most fun. And my tower had a lot of problems during previews, my beautiful tower. It was meant to be a 2-story tower that they were going to lift up from the bottom of the stage, but when they were doing the plans for the theater, they realized that there was a river under 8th Avenue under the theater and they could not dig 2 stories down. So they instead made this telescoping tower that lived in the basement. So the crew guys would put me in the thing and then they would close the door then and it would go up. And as it would go up from the basement, it would twirl into place and then it would telescope and then you'd see the window facing forward with me in it and my hair down the, down the side. So sometimes it would just twirl and then not go up. And then sometimes it would go up and it wouldn't twirl. And sometimes it would twirl, then creak, and then get stuck, and then became Rapunzel's Leaning Tower of Pisa. And then we had to take the curtain down and reset it. They had to take me out through the little window with a ladder. And then take it down in the basement, I would go back down in the basement and they would try it all over again. So it was definitely trial and error to get that beautiful tower to work. But after previews, I think it was pretty smooth after about the first month or two. But that, that did tickle me as well. Any questions about the character or the show?

We have one from Gabriella.

Gabriella, hello!

Hi, okay, so I was in Into the Woods when I was younger and I played Little Red and it was impossible to like learn just like the structure of the show and like the song, how like difficult Sondheim is to learn. So like what was the like rehearsal process like with him being in the room?

Oh, it was fun. I'm such a music nerd. I love reading music and all the accidentals and the weird intervals just made me so excited. So I had a blast, but it was definitely— you were expected to get it right. And I know that he does not like it when you sing it wrong or you're just, you know, you're a half tone off. Uh, it's very specific music, and you're right, I don't think a lot of people really understand how difficult that music is to learn. Once you learn it, you can pretty much, you can be free with it. But yeah, you're right. It's tough, but he's also, as I said, he's such a nice man. He wouldn't berate you in front of a group or anything. There was never the feeling like you were gonna be shamed by anybody. We were all in it together and we were all working to get it right. And we all did. It took us a while to get the, the Into the Woods verses and all of the, especially in the finale, getting it sounding exactly right and, you know, getting our pitches quite matched together. But we, it was a delightful process. Thank you. Of course, of course.

Diana.

Hi, so my My sophomore year of high school, I did Into the Woods, and I was one of the evil stepsisters, Lucinda. And one of our, one of my friends was Rapunzel, and she always had a hard time doing the awws. I just wanted to know how you could do that just almost every night, just keep singing it.

Yeah, oh, good question, good question. It's funny, I don't really know. A lot of people ask me that question, and a lot of people ask me the same about the screaming and how I could scream and how I could sing high and do both of those things at the same time. And honestly, the only thing that I can say was my friend and is still my friend is my diaphragm is my support system. And it's just the same as healthy speaking and healthy singing and also not overdoing it. So when you're doing 50, 60 screams a week, little ones and big ones, but 8 shows a week and 7 screams, so a lot of screaming and a lot of high singing. Then when you're off stage, you don't go to bars or restaurants and scream really loudly, you know, over a meal because you can't be heard for 2 hours. You just have to rest your voice and get into that discipline of the, the somebody who's using their voice as an instrument, uh, on a, on a weekly and a daily basis. And it's— you all know that discipline. It's, it's just making sure that you do a proper warm-up and, you know, all the boring stuff. But all that boring stuff really does sustain you for a long run and a long career.

Thank you.

You bet.

Megan Fuller.

Hi, um, I'm aspiring actress, but I was wondering, like, what did you do to prepare for your role as Rapunzel acting-wise?

Oh, I love that question. Um, it's, it's interesting because it's a, it's a fantastical role. It's a, it's an archetype, right? So what I tried to do was find the parts of me that felt like she did. So Rapunzel is the archetypical maiden in distress who is being repressed, that she wants to break free, she wants to have autonomy of her own life, and she's being overprotected and almost imprisoned by her mother, who means well but can't quite love unconditionally. And so I felt those same feelings as a young person going through school and having to fit into certain parameters of what people expected of me. So I felt like I kind of related to her on a visceral level. I wanted to go see the world. And in fact, I did leave the show to go see the world. Because even though I had realized my dream of being on Broadway, after having done the show for 14 months, it was still running. I felt like it was no longer becoming fresh and new artistically for me. So for me, I felt artistically shackled by actually staying in the show and left to the shock of all of the other actors in the show, many of them who were older and had thought, my gosh, when you get a Broadway show, It's such a rare thing, don't ever leave it. And it's so interesting how that, that all played out for me because I guess I followed my gut to leave the show and then 4 weeks later I ended up coming back into the show as Cinderella. So that was a crazy kind of stroke of luck that had I not left, I wouldn't have had that opportunity to, to play Cinderella. But that's a long-winded answer of telling you how I felt I wanted to see the world, and I used all of myself in that, in that embodying this, what I wanted to be, a flesh and blood person, not a caricature.

Thank you.

You bet.

Leilani Santiago.

Hi.

Yes, I'm Leilani. And my question is, do you have a set pre-show routine or any like warm-ups or traditions that you always do? And do you have any tips for what an actress or actor should do before a show?

Oh, I love that question. And I think that it's a big— whatever feels right to you, just make sure that you have something that you do that takes you from your regular state into your imaginary state, in your creative mode where you're embodying somebody else. And that can manifest in so many different ways. Obviously, the physical stuff, like you want to be physically ready. So if that means that you have a yoga practice or you have a meditation practice or you like to run or you like to get on an indoor bike or whatever you do that kind of gets you into your body, that's always a good thing. I like to get in some sort of physical activity before I go on stage, and if I haven't done anything during the day, I'll to do stretching, meditation, something that just gets my body moving a little bit. And even if you feel a little sluggish before you go on, like you're tired, you had a big long day and you still have to do a show at night, I'll like jog in place to get my energy up a little bit, then like let my energy hang for a bit. But it's mostly that mental focus that you're looking for. So it's the right before where you, need to get yourself into the moment before you're on stage so that it's not a shock that all of a sudden you become the character the minute you walk on stage, you should try to just relive in your mind what those 20 seconds before you walk on the stage are for that person. And I, I like to just try to make the shift a little bit before. And if you're in a long-running show, then it's really something that you're used to doing, so you just You just get there, you go there. You get very quiet if it's a scene that's very intimate, or you get, you feel that agitation, or you, like if the scene before Stay With Me, like I could think of the moment before where she dragged me down the stairs of that tower, you know, and I was terrified and just sort of feeling that feeling before I take a step on the stage. Um, but does that answer your question?

Yes, thank you.

Okay, you're very welcome.

Tatum Hopkins.

Hi, um, when you started on Broadway as Rapunzel, did you imagine that you would go on to be a producer and innovator like creating Theater Accelerator? And also, how do you know, uh, to recognize opportunities when they're presented to you? And also, how do you know when to open those doors?

Wow, you are profoundly wise to ask such a question. How did I know that— did I know that I was going to get here? No, I didn't know where I was going, but it's not a surprise to me that I'm doing what I'm doing. It's all related to passion. It's all related to forward energy, that of doing things that you love. And also, theater is such a wonderful medium. It brings people together, it brings joy, it inspires, it makes people think, it, it galvanizes us as a society. I mean, it's really a powerful, powerful medium that we have and that we are— I'm so proud to be a part of. But there's so many ways that you can be involved in theater, and I'm sure for a lot of you there's a lot of you will become performers, a lot of you will become Broadway performers or performers regionally, or, and now things are opening up with so much film and stage film musicals that we're doing. There's, there's the possibilities are getting larger and larger all the time as a performer. But at the same time, we, what we teach in Theater Accelerator is something I try to live, and that is to be the captain I'm captain of my own creativity. And in using technology, we can get our message out there in so many ways now. So there's no barrier to entry for you to perform for an audience on YouTube or work with a group of people that you love, even on Zoom, rehearsing on Zoom, which is what we do all the time now, now that we're in COVID restrictions, We're not stopping. We're in rehearsals, we're writing, or I'm writing music. There's so much that can be done, but it all stems back to that same passion and love for this art form and for expression, which— the thread is the same whether you're producing a Broadway show like An American in Paris or Memphis or all these shows that we have done, or it is performing on stage and embodying a role. It's all sort of this from the same faucet.

Awesome, thank you.

Of course.

Brianna, Bri Gutierrez.

Um, I just wanted to ask, um, what is some advice that you would want to give, um, to a past self but also to future generations who do want to pursue a career in acting and musical theater?

Oh yeah, I can look back on my old self and I would say what I didn't know then was that I was enough. I was always trying to prove that I was gonna be acceptable or gonna be good enough And I would say to that young self, you are enough. Doesn't mean that you don't stop learning or you don't stop trying to improve what you can do, but where you are right now is enough. And I would say that to future generations also. I think that they're going to blow us away in the ways that they become creative. There are so many cool things happening now, even though COVID has been really hard on the world and a lot of people are suffering. There is a silver lining here in that we are finding ways to be creative in this crisis where we can't go to theaters and we can't go and sit shoulder to shoulder and we can't actually act in a scene with somebody on stage safely yet. But there are so many other ways that we can be creative and people are doing it. And it's really fun and refreshing and inspiring for me to know that it's Creativity never stops. It's always there. And that's another thing I would say is that trust your own creativity. Trust that it'll always be there. And if you don't feel it right now or today, or you're having an off day and nothing's coming and you're trying to write something and it's not working, that's all part of the process. And you will get that spark and you will be inspired. And you will get that role when it— when you need the role to come and fulfill what you need to do it will come to you and you will do it and you will grow. So I guess having faith in the universe also, that your creativity will see you through and that you are enough.

We have a question here in the chat from Mary saying, I'm hoping to direct Into the Woods in March 2021 if we are in person. What advice would you give to high school students auditioning?

Yeah, I would say look for the reality, look for the relatability of the characters. And instead of going for a big, broad, archetypical performance, the beauty of Into the Woods is the realism. The kids, the kids are frustrated with how the adults are treating them. Jack's mother and Jack bicker and banter in a way that feels quite real. And the terror that Rapunzel feels is also overprotective parents and the things that they do really for themselves, not for their children. This truly happens. So looking for those real moments in life, even though it's a fantasy, even though it's a fairy tale, I would say also don't go for the laughs. If you're somebody that enjoys doing comedy, great. If you have comic timing, great. but do play it straight and see how the laughs come. They'll come. You'll earn them more.

You know, the show is much different. I was just finishing up my undergrad in theater in '87, and I sided with Little Red. I sided with Jack. But when you become a parent and you're listening to that song, you know, children will listen or children won't listen. It's heartbreaking.

It absolutely is. It is heartbreaking, and it's a cautionary tale to everyone, but especially parents, that you have to live— you have to set examples for your children. You can't— they're going to pick up everything.

Oh, and they do.

They do. They pick up everything, and you can't you can't try to shoehorn them into what you want them to be, but yet at the same time you have to be there for them when they need it. And that's a very difficult line for some people. Some people can't let their kids go. And I have a 17-year-old son now, and when, when boys and girls or young men and young women are 17, they are transitioning into adulthood. And giving my son autonomy is the best gift I can give him. And sometimes I stumble at that. Sometimes I want to control what he's doing in a way that that was maybe— that was probably the way it was working 3 years ago and what he needed 3 years ago, but it's not what he needs now. So children will listen, and we need to listen to them in order to give them the respective of being a full human, even though they're young. Absolutely.

I find that in directing as well.

Oh, I absolutely agree with that. Yeah, and that's— I was sort of alluding to that about Sondheim and his respect for actors. He doesn't look down on anyone in the process. Everyone, the stagehands, the people that are cleaning the theater between the shows, everybody matters in putting a show together, and nobody's higher than anybody else. It— and some people might be having higher billing, but it doesn't matter. You're all there to create something together.

Thank you.

Of course. I think we have time maybe for one more question.

We have two more. Why don't we take one from Sonia Sanchez and then Heather Wilson, you'll be next.

Okay.

So in 6th grade, I was actually Rapunzel. And I have— my question is, have you actually, like, seen other people play as Rapunzel, either, like, on stage or in the movie? And, like, what have they done that has got you thinking, like, wow, I'd never, like, really thought of that?

That's a wonderful question. I have seen many other people play Rapunzel, and not one performance has been the same. And I love that. I love that people interpret it in their own way. Some people play her much more like a waif that's helpless. Some people play her as somebody who's frustrated. Some people play her just wacky. And there's so many ways that you can, can do it. I had one of my friend's daughters played Rapunzel, which was super cool to see her. Play it because she's somebody that I know and really, really care about. And she was absolutely marvelous. And I actually know the woman who played Rapunzel in the film, and she's also quite marvelous. But I would say that I don't know what I would do differently about my performance having watched them. I think it's fine that their performance is different than the performance that I did back then. I think that probably if I did it again, I would have maybe a different take on it. I might be influenced by what's happening today and what those archetypes, what the shifts are right now. It might take on a different tone, but I think they're all valid. I think there's lots of ways you can go, which is one of the beauties of having these iconic fairy tale characters to play.

Thank you.

Heather.

Welcome.

Thank you.

Hi. Hey, Heather.

So my question is more about, like, you had this process with Into the Woods as creating a new work, and now you're working on other new works. How does that differ from working with an existing script?

It differs from an existing script in that you have this beautiful possibility in front of you that nobody has touched this yet. And so the end result is only going to be from your imagination, which can be terrifying, but to me it's exhilarating. I love doing new stuff and I love figuring stuff out. So I think that when you have a new script, you can delve into it and you can look at it from a lot of different perspectives. You can look at it from a dramaturgical perspective, and you can sort of see what your character's function is. Say you're a principal role that's supporting the lead character. What does the lead character need from you? And why are you there? And then when those moments come where that thing happens, you know that you really need to land those moments because those are the most important moments for the story. So looking at, like, taking steps back and then looking at it from the macro is really helpful. And then once you sort of have a game plan for that, then you can go and do that, that work that you would do with, with any script, with a script that you've already— that's— you've seen a million times, or that you've watched the DVD of, and now you're interpreting it. Some people like to watch the performances of other actors before they dive into a role, and some people don't. I actually do like to watch if it's something that is that is available for me to see, that is existing. I like to watch it only because I know that other people in the audience watching me will probably have seen it or possibly could have seen it. So they might have a certain perspective on what that character is. So I want to understand what their understanding might be before I dive in. And it's also for me a sounding board, just like the last question we were talking about where asking about seeing other people play Rapunzel and how I felt about that. It's cool to watch somebody else do it, and then you get— it sort of stimulates your mind of, well, I would— that would work really great for me, that would work really great in what my feeling of the character is, and that not so much. I think I wouldn't go in that direction as much. But so you kind of have a little palette that you're forming as you're watching somebody else. The, the worst thing to do would be to imitate somebody else because it never works unless you're doing a parody, and that's a whole different thing. But if you're trying to create a character and you do watch somebody else's performance, you can watch it, but watch it from a distance and take some notes, and then let it go, and then, then I would, I would dive in. But I mean, that's just how I do it, and people have— there's so many different ways you can do it.

All right, well, that about wraps it up for our time for questions.

Well, thank you for your wonderful questions, and again, congratulations. It's so lovely that you've come in and, and spent a little time with me. I'm always inspired to talk to people that love the performing arts as much as I do, and especially people that are young and full of hope and are moving through. And so I wish all of you an amazing journey in being creative. And if you have any questions for me, you can, you can contact me. I am taking over Instagram today for No One Called Ahead, so you can go visit me there if you like. But otherwise, you can find me on Instagram, or you can find me on my website, Pamela Winslow Kashani, or you can get in touch with Apples and Oranges, and I'd be happy to continue the conversation. So again, thank you for joining, and yay to creative people. We keep, we keep the love in the world going. And on behalf of Hakata and myself, Have a great rest of your day.

Thank you so much.

Thank you everybody for joining us today, and you can see Pamela on the Playbill premiere on Sunday of No One Called Ahead. Have a great rest of your day.

Thank you. Bye. Bye.