In this interview segment, playwright Kellen Blair and writer/producer Joe Kinosian candidly discuss the steep difficulties of launching a career in theatre after college. Blair describes the work as "really, really taxing," emphasizing that talent alone isn’t enough; ambition and an unwillingness to compromise are required, yet the path feels like a rough, almost impossible choice. Kinosian expands on systemic barriers, notably the classic agent‑show catch‑22 where one cannot secure an agent without a show and cannot get a show without an agent. He highlights the survival challenge of maintaining day jobs that allow flexibility while pursuing artistic opportunities. The conversation turns to the gritty reality of grassroots promotion: Kinosian recounts standing in Times Square handing out half‑price Broadway flyers, simultaneously jotting down lyrics for the musical "Murder for Two" on his iPhone between flyer drops. Blair notes that this hustle directly fed into the show's lyrics, illustrating how the creative process can be interwoven with the hustle of promotion. Overall, the segment paints a vivid picture of the relentless hustle, financial strain, and creative improvisation required to break into stage writing.
Chapters
This is hard, you know. It's fun, it's inspiring, but it's really hard.
Well, it sounds like Joe's got something to say.
No, it's, it's like, it's so rough, and as rough as you think it's gonna be coming out of school, you end up wishing it was that easy. It's like, yeah, it's really, really, really taxing, and you have to really want it. And I mean, that's I think that's what it comes down to is, you know, when I graduated college, I was in school with some of the most talented people I'd ever worked with. And to this day, I still think of them as some of the most talented. But it's like, there's that talent portion and then there's that sort of like ambition and unwillingness to part with anything or compromise and do anything else. And it is a stupid and rough choice to go into this industry, but that is kind of what it takes is like, well, I just can't do anything else.
Yeah, it is stupid. And there are moments when it seems like, you know, it's just a catch-22. There are moments when it seems like there is literally no way to actually break into this industry. You know, there's like the classic like agent catch-22 where, you know, you can't get an agent unless you're in, you know, in a show and you can't get a show unless you get an agent. Sometimes it feels that way as a writer as well. You know, getting people to actually look at your work and take it seriously. Well, they're only going to take it seriously if you've actually had some work that someone took seriously. And it's very challenging sometimes to get that first big break. I'd say for me the biggest challenge is just needing to survive while also trying to pursue your life as an artist. And, you know, most of us have to have day jobs. You know, most of us have to be doing something to actually pay the rent that month. And yet if you want to be an artist, you also kind of have to find a day job that allows you to be a little bit flexible for when that, you know, wonderful opportunity does pop up.
Yeah, but those kind of jobs are not—
well, that's it. So then, well compensated, oftentimes what you're left with is, you know, standing out in the middle of winter in Times Square passing out, you know, flyers to Broadway shows. And I mean, most of Murder for Two, at least the lyrics, were written in between saying half-price tickets to a Broadway show, handing someone a flyer, and then taking 5 minutes and like mumbling to myself like the lyric to one of the songs, and then half-price tickets to a Broadway show, and then another 5 minutes of like mumbling the next lyric of a song, and you're recording it quickly into my iPhone, and then continuing to like walk around and interact with people.
And that explains why so many of the lyrics on Mirror for Two are half-price tickets.
Yeah, exactly. That puts a lot into perspective. Um, and you know, a lot of days when it was You know, literally there were, there was no reason for me to be out there. There was a foot of snow. No one was walking through Times Square. I was shouting to myself because no one in their right mind would be in Times Square on that day. And yet everybody wants to come up to you and take that flyer. Don't they? Of course. Exactly. Yeah. No, there was a day, um, I think it was St. Patrick's Day is the worst day to be a flyer passer outer because everyone's drunk by 8 in the morning. And two kids tried to set me on fire that day and then later came back and I apologize. He was very I'm very sorry. Later came back and shot at me with a BB gun, and I was like, I could be like a doctor right now, you know, but we had to write Murder for Two.
