Alex Hackel - From Being Picked Last To 2x X Games Medalist

Hey Archie, guess what?

What?

I interviewed Alex Hackl this week on the podcast. He is a 2-time X Games medalist. He made the US ski team when he was 17 years old. He got 2nd place in the Corbetts Couloir Kings and Queens where they have to jump off this massive like lip into a deadly chute that sort of— I would be scared to just drop into. They're throwing tricks into it. Uh, he started his own YouTube channel which has gone wild. He has started a ski company. He's produced 5 full-length ski movies. The guy is an absolute goer, as we say in Australia. Anyway, I wanted to chat to him because I think he's inspirational. You think he's pretty cool?

Yeah.

Yeah, Archie wants to meet him. So I wanted to dig into like what drives this guy to achieve so many like fantastic things, these goals he's set himself, because it didn't start out That way, which you'll find out. So let's get into the podcast right now. So Alex, you are pretty successful in, I would say, many different ways. Business-wise, you've been a professional athlete, you've started a YouTube channel. Things you take on, you seem to be very successful at. But before we go there, can you take us back to Sunday River when you were a kid? Because there's a story in there that perhaps Helps us understand your, your mindset.

Definitely. So I remember when I was a kid, I, you know, desperately want to be a good skier. So I did what pretty much any kid would do, which would be to like sign up for the weekend ski program. And, you know, get in the age group and, you know, try and work my way up the ranks and get coached and all that stuff. And I remember this morning, I was like 12 years old. And it was like the first day of the weekend ski program. And I was like, just so, so, so, so stoked. And one of the things is like when you turn 12, you got to go into like the older kid group. So then you got to ski terrain parks and you got to like do all the stuff that I really wanted to do. The year before I had to do like a combination of everything training, like moguls. And like we only got to spend maybe like a quarter of our time in the terrain park. So this is like the year I was waiting for. And like also you get to see all your friends who are like the same age as you. So we do our like morning warmups and they're calling the groups. And this is like the moment I've been waiting for. I'm like, okay, I'm about to get called. We're gonna go with the big kids. This is finally it. And then I watch, it's like my friend gets called, Connor gets called, Nick gets called. They all go to the big kid group. And then basically it was like Alex, and then it was like, uh, to the left, which was like the small kid group. And it was like a group of like kids who were like from the ages of like 8 to 11. And I was like so hurt. I was like, what the heck? Like, What can't they see? Like, what am I doing wrong? Like, I'm the same age as these kids. Like, I'm a decent enough skier in my head, and like, this is all I want to do. And why can't they see the passion in me? And I grew up with something called idiopathic short stature. So I had like a deficiency in growth hormone. So I looked tiny. So I had this really small packaging. And I'm like, do they just think because I look like a 9-year-old that I should ski with the 9-year-olds? And it was really tough. And I was like holding back tears. because it was so embarrassing. And it was, I felt really like judged and everything. And I, you know, I psyched it up and then I ended up quitting the ski program because I was like, all right, like this is not going towards the direction that I want. And I would just like show up to the park and I would just talk with anybody who would teach me a trick. And they basically ended up teaching me because I felt that like support. And then I started learning like really quick. And I realized that skiing didn't have to be this thing where like somebody said like you're ready or you're not ready. And then when I asked like my dad a little bit later, he basically said like, yeah, like I talked with like your coaches. Like we'd have like parent, you know, teacher like evaluations. And basically like the coach said like, hey, look at like, if Alex enjoys skiing, great. But like he has no chance of being a professional skier. So that was just kind of like the attitude at the weekend program. I kind of just got judged by the package that I was and they maybe didn't see what I could be. And then I basically had to learn to take things into my own initiative and basically to believe in myself and to find the support that I wanted.

Yeah.

But I don't blame like the coach at all. Like, you have so many kids and whatnot, and it's hard to give each one personal attention. But that kind of, I think, is like a good summary of, I guess, how I got into skiing and sort of like the passion it gave me and the DIY work ethic that it taught me.

So some people would give up with that, maybe find another sport. You didn't. Uh, do you think there's anything in you Or anything in just people in general that helps us not give up there? Because maybe someone's listening and they've, they're like, yep, that's happened to me. And they stopped pursuing their dream. What's, what made you keep going?

Uh, I think it sounds crazy, but I didn't really have a plan B. Like I was doing terrible in school. Uh, I was tiny, so I wasn't good at any of the other American sports and I generally loved skiing. So it was one of those things where it was like, I just had such a big passion for it that I was able to like sustain the setbacks. So I think it's like in other parts of my life, like I'm not going to sit here and like preach that I can just overcome anything because I think you have to have like a passion for it. But I think if you truly know you're destined for something, or if you truly feel like this is like for you, and if you get a setback, then I think that you can draw in sort of like all that Like sort of passion you have and all that desire you have to achieve something. And you can think to yourself, okay, like this door is not opening, but like, let me look over here. And I think that if you have like a passion to keep standing, you know, like stand and fight, get knocked down, stand up and fight, get knocked down, stand up and fight. And so I think it was like, it's a little bit like a Rocky movie sometimes, which is like, it's not about how many times you get knocked down. All that matters is you get up one more than when you get knocked back down. So I think that that's kind of like my attitude. It's like, I'm passionate about something, I'm going to be very persistent about it. And if I'm very persistent about it, I'm going to be able to stick with it through the ups and the downs. And then I just try and remind myself when it's down that it'll get up again. And when it's up, unfortunately, the down will come as well.

Okay. So you got rejected, but I don't think you learned all your really good tricks from just hanging out with people in the park. There was Something— did you go find some help elsewhere? Was there anything that gave you a bit of a boost?

Yeah, so I, I— this is, this is correct. So basically, I, you know, the weekend program wasn't for me. Then I would go in the park and I met some amazing people. Like, one of them, his name is Curtis, and he was like the best skier, uh, park skier at the mountain. And he was like 5, 6 years older than me, and, uh, he just took me under his wing and he started just showing me like how to do the tricks and just sort of like what Park skiing lifestyle is about, what newschoolers.com is, what things are cool, what things aren't cool, and just sort of like, I guess, like introduced me to like freeskiing culture. And then I was just like, I was so hooked. Like it was like the second that I figured out I was semi-decent at it, I was just like, because if I loved it when I thought I sucked, when I figured out, hey, but I'm not that bad, I was like, I'm all in. So then I would like, basically it was like everything for me. I would just show up like, you know, like every weekend I'd show up like First chair, I would stay last chair. I would hike rails after 4 PM when the chairs closed, and I sort of got really into it. And then I really wanted to see, like, can I take this to the next level? Because this is like the only thing that I cared about at the time. So then I started asking my parents, like, oh, can I— like, what is there, like a ski academy? Like, you know, like I'd heard of these high schools where you get to like ski like every day. So then I was able to basically convince my parents to send me to Windells Academy. Which is like a ski academy in Mount Hood, Oregon. And it's like an amazing place because you have this year-round glacier, the Mount Hood Glacier. And so my premise was just like, okay, how many days can I get? So like, if I went to a ski academy on the East Coast of America, you know, I would get the same amount of days. But if I do it in Mount Hood, Oregon, I can ski all summer, I can ski all fall, and that I'm just gonna get like 40% more days so that I'm going to get 40% more opportunity to get better. So I kind of show up out there and I have the scrappy attitude. And I also have like the resentment towards coaches and authority figures. Like I'm a, I'm a big anti-establishment guy, not anymore per se, but back then, because like that was the only like introduction to like, basically I was dyslexic in school. So I had a hard time sometimes and teachers had a hard time relating to me. And then I, know, show up to ski academy, or like my first like coaching and skiing, and they basically tell me I'm not good enough, go ski with kids 3 years younger than you. And then basically I show up there and I have that same resentment. But luckily I was able to, uh, have like the best coach I could ask for. His name's Mike Hanley, and, uh, he's like an absolute godsend. I thought he was crazy. I hated him for the first 6 months. But I, uh, got sat down, uh, by a girl named Maggie, and we were at a Like a training camp in Colorado, like in December, and she just sits everybody down and she's like, "Look it, like I know you think Mike is crazy, and I know he has a different way of going about things, but like look in the mirror and ask yourself, like why are you here? And like why did you come to like be at Windells? And like if you came here because you want to progress, you want to be the best skier possible, like you have to listen to Mike." And she's like, "I thought he was crazy. I listened to him. He taught me." 5 tricks in one day, the next day taught me 5 tricks. Like, this guy knows.

Why is he crazy? What, what, like, give an example.

I wouldn't— I don't know, it's not like he's crazy. It's just like, you're a 15-year-old and he's like the ski coach and he's also the headmaster. He's a huge history nerd. He grew up in SoCal, so he goes around in board shorts. Like, he basically— it's not that he's actually crazy, it's just you're a rebellious teenager And he's an authority figure, so it's not like he's necessarily crazy in his antics.

Different. He wasn't fitting that new school's baggy pants part, like that sort of—

No, no, he didn't look the part, and he wasn't like, uh, you know, he wasn't like in the hip culture, but he had an insane knowledge of skiing. And like, I mean, he's of course in the culture, like he's— yeah. like coached some of the best skiers for a very long time. So he's in the culture, but he's just not like what you would think, like as me, like a Henrik Harlå loving 14-year-old who showed up in Melon, Oregon. That was not my thing. But she basically says, give him a chance. Give him a chance. And I gave him a chance. And then yeah, he taught me like 5 tricks in one day. And then like the next day, he like taught me 5 more tricks. And I just realized like, okay, if I listen to him, We're gonna get— we're gonna go places. And I want to go places, I can't do it alone. And my favorite story with him, and what a great example of how powerful coaching can be and how powerful an instructor can be, is he had so much belief in me. And he always believed that I could do the trick before I could do the trick. And when I was 17, I did the world's second triple cork 1080. And Like two months before that, he told my dad like, "Yeah, Alex is gonna do a triple cork ten in like a couple months," and I had no idea he told my dad this. And then I did it, and then I called my dad. I said, "Dad, I did it!" And he's like, "Oh yeah, the triple cork ten? Mike told me you were gonna do that a couple months ago." And like if I would have heard Mike tell my dad like a couple months ago, like, "Oh, Alex is gonna do a triple cork ten," I'd be like, "You're out of your mind. Like I'm not ready. Like da da da." But he could see like my progression and he's like, okay, like he might not be ready now, but like he will be ready. So like, that was like the polar opposite. 'Cause one coach basically like thought that I, you know, wasn't gonna be talented and basically pushed me aside. And then the other coach like believed I was more talented than what I personally believed in. And then that showed me like, wow, when you have these people on your team who are like pulling you forward, like that is like, It's, it's just exponential.

Wow. Yeah. Wow. Okay. So is there any things like the way you then approached getting better, like beyond that? So it's a newer, harder tricks. Like, I guess I'm trying to, if I want to learn some, some new tricks, Alex, terrain park style, like I'm getting older, but I really would like to prove that I'm not, and I'm— and I could maybe spin a 7. I've spun a 5, never spun a 7. Like, what advice from Mike and what you've learned would you say to me about trying to achieve that goal?

That's tough. That's tough because I haven't seen any of like the preparations. But first, it would be like, you can 100% do it because you're like an amazing skier, and I definitely think you have like everything it takes to do the 720. So I would say first, like, I would just say a belief that you got it. Uh, but I haven't really seen like your 5s and your 7s and whatnot. But I think if it were to be like, if I had to like guess, it would be like to be patient on your takeoff because like you're gonna think, oh, I'm gonna spin more. That means I have to like really crank more.

Yeah.

But in theory, uh, if you think about like, if you can do a 360 on flat ground, and then if you think about the jump, you'll probably be 7ing, you're gonna have like 10 times more airtime than what your 360 on flat ground.

Okay.

So it's one of those things where it's like, basically probably be strong and patient on the takeoff and then like, uh, like get the good set, get in the air, start spinning. And then depending on what kind of 7 rotation, like maybe like a spot, like if you're gonna do like a, let's just say like a cork 7, you'd wanna be kind of like spotting at 360, like looking at the horizon, like kind of like a little upside down. And then you're gonna watch your feet like follow back through. But I think that's all like, uh, probably— I, I don't know, it's all hypothetical. But in general, it would just be believe in yourself, have confidence, don't overcook the takeoff, be patient, and like let it come to you. Yeah.

Okay. So then I'm interested, like when you— so say we're about to go, like we're standing at a jump, you're gonna go hit it. And you're gonna throw, uh, a cork 10 or something. What do you actually— what are like the simple cues you now, through all the practice, think about? Like, you know, like you mentioned the horizon thing. When I do my technical skiing, I have these things that I think about, like where my feet are going at a certain point, where my hand is relative to stuff. Do you have similar stuff? Like, is it— Relative position to the environment, to like your hand, to your foot? Like, how do you simplify it? So it's like cork 10, off I go.

Uh, I think it's, I think it's, uh, it's hard. And I think it's, if I had to put a metric to it, and I could be like totally wrong, but I think to some degree when I'm like getting in ready on the takeoff or whatever, and this is gonna make me sound old, but like I haven't learned like a new trick in a really long time. Like I haven't like, well, of what I'm doing is basically like I learned it when I was younger, and then now I'm adapting it to a new space, which is adding difficulty, or like I'm basically doing tricks that I haven't done in, in a very long time, or adding small variation. So I would say like a lot of the like groundwork that I have was kind of like put in at that like young age by like Mike and everything. And I always do think like maybe like on the takeoff and like Like I was saying with the cork 7, like being patient and like not rushing it and like the same thing with like where your head's looking and everything. But I honestly think about it as, and this is like, this is just in general, like a coaching debate, which is like how much when you're going off a jump that's like 25 meters and you're gonna go upside down 3 times, how much can you actually think about your takeoff versus how much of it is like fight or flight instincts?

Yeah.

So basically what I try and think more than anything when I do tricks is just keeping like a very calm mindset and like basically like using those nerves that I have to my advantage and not letting them consume me. Because if I let them consume me, then I'm going to forget the training that I had and I'm going to rush my takeoff and I'm going to like be hopped up on adrenaline. I'm not going to be doing my risk versus reward. Like, uh, Appraisal correctly. So like when I'm doing the big tricks, I'm almost not thinking too much about like technique. Like I might think like, okay, I know, like, for example, like this is maybe like the small crux of the trick, which is like, I need a good takeoff or, oh, okay. Like I usually end up spinning too much. So I need to think a little more flip, but I'll think like, uh, maybe something like vague, if that makes sense.

Yes.

Or maybe not something super like my hip needs to be here and this here. But I think like vaguely, like, okay, like if you have to try and nail one part, what's that one part that you're gonna nail? But so I'll think about that and then I'll think mainly just about, okay, how do I regulate my emotions and how do I think correctly and how do I think like, um, like sound despite the, like the nerves and despite the desire to get the shot and despite all that stuff. So I'd think about it as like 20%. technicality. And also one thing I will say, these days you have like airbags and stuff. So like, if I do do new tricks, I generally have already kind of more or less done it into an airbag. So it's like the technique is usually there. And then the on-snow is like the mental part.

Yeah, okay.

Okay.

So airbags, really, like if you grew up in an era without airbags, obviously the progression slows a bit, right? Like that's just opened up Massive.

Yeah, so I did grow up in the era without airbags. So like airbags came when I started exiting slopestyle skiing. So now I get to use airbags and I'm like, wow, this is a cheat code. But I also am not that jealous either because with that cheat code then comes the floodgates. More risk. And yeah, exactly. Because you are able to train and you're already able to test things out and then Like, it's just like, it's just making it so the sport's progressing super fast, I think, or it's one of the contributing factors. So I feel like it's like there's both pros and cons, uh, to both. So I'm not jealous though, because I'm like, I'm happy.

Yeah, yeah, your time. Yeah, the, the timeliness of when you made your rise in, uh, in skiing was good. So then I think we share a similar passion in filmmaking. Like, I loved skiing, but then making videos about skiing, uh, and I did it in the beginning because I wanted it— it was for me to be like, so I could look back and remember it, and, and it was fun. When did you start playing with video editing and skiing?

Definitely, I think it was like, uh, it's like the same thing. Like, you just want to get tricks of you and your homies to just like see what it looks like, compare yourself to your idols. So like, you go on New Schoolers, you'd find people's season edits And then you'd see what kind of tricks they were doing. And then I think like a lot of like how I got into filmmaking was just to like emulate like those season edits or emulate what other people are doing. And just like to like the joy of like doing a trick and having it on film and being able to just show people like that was probably where it all started. And then I just realized that like I do love like filmmaking in general. Like I'm a huge like movie nerd and like I generally do enjoy Just like the act of filmmaking. So it kind of was just like one of those things where it just started as just like getting clips with homies. And then I realized like, wait, like the act of filming with my friends is adding enjoyment and is something that I actively like. And then that's sort of when I decided to like try and like step up the filmmaking to make ski movies and to sort of like go from there.

Have you seen anybody get really good at skiing without Doing much filming stuff, or do you think they go hand in hand because of the feedback loop?

So I think like, okay, so 100%, like nowadays I think you have to, not you have to, but like filming yourself, it's insane what good quality phones we have in our pockets and like how much basically like filming and rewatching the film to see your movements is gonna help you. So I think you like have to do that to some degree. But I would say like, I know a lot of skiers who like got really good at skiing with pretty much zero interest in the filmmaking side of things. So like the film is basically purely to just like, they don't care if the shot looks good or if the angle or if the song hits good or anything like that. They're just like, all right, somebody gotta clip me. I can see what my takeoff looks like. Boom. Okay. Like, I'm just gonna like. keep cranking tricks. So I think that it's like 50/50. I think some people start filming their skiing and then think that that's fun and go into it. And I think the other 50% just see it as like a means to the end of basically like seeing what their set looks like or seeing, you know, how their skiing looks.

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Yeah. Okay, cool. So, you've taken that passion of filming and worked with some video editors to now make a YouTube channel. Uh, lots of people these days, especially young kids, are like, want to be a YouTuber. Can you give us your maybe like bit of advice on that? And is it, is it as easy as maybe it seems, uh, or, or not? What's your take on becoming a YouTuber?

Definitely. So I'd say like anybody who's like, oh, I like, I want to become a YouTuber, I'd be like, me too. Like, and I think that that's like the basis for Like anything. So I think if you have the desire to do it, I would actually be like super encouraging to tell you that I think you can do it. And that it's just like this. I almost think it's like very similar to like how I do like skiing and how I approach skiing, which is like first I was a fan. And then like once you're a fan, then you're like, okay, I want to get involved. And then you basically then you start trying and then when you start trying, it's not going to be good first attempt. And then you just sort of like learn and learn and learn. And like, I think I'm constantly learning on the YouTube front and like that I have so much farther to go in that basically, like, I just see it as like a constant evolution of like a skill. And like, that it's like pretty similar to skiing, which is like, you start with the passion, you decide you want to do it, and then you work your way by starting and then through doing it, then you get better and better and better. And then you sort of like work your way up in talent.

Like, what's the, what's the most recent thing you've learned about YouTubing then? Like that you are, you're like, oh, it took me a while to figure that out, or I was making that mistake?

Uh, I think that a lot of it is like, oh, I'd watch somebody else do a video on a certain topic and then I think like, oh, if I just do a video on this topic, then that's also gonna go good. Or like, oh, like my favorite YouTuber does this in their video, so if I just copy this, then it's gonna go good. And then realizing that like, There's a whole lot of nuance. And like, so for example, like maybe your favorite skier is like super great. And they have like a great set, they have a great grab, but their landing's poor. But if you don't know enough about the technique, and you copy their landing, then you're just copying potentially like the worst part of their thing. So I would just say like, getting really nerdy and like trying to see like what works, what doesn't work, try and watch videos and like, kind of like reverse engineer, like what was it about that video that was really good? What would it like I try and improve on this? And sort of like not just necessarily copying everything, but more trying to like figure out like, okay, like what do I think they do good and what do I think is contributing versus what do I think maybe is like the sloppiness and whatnot and trying to figure out to emulate what I think they do great and then to give out sloppiness. And then just like skiing, how to embrace like authenticity. Like I think that A lot of skiing can be emulation, uh, and it takes a long time of emulating to then put your style on it. And I still think in YouTube, maybe if I were to critique myself, like, I still feel like my personal style hasn't truly come forward yet because I'm— I've been still in the, the learning process.

Would you say, is there a video you've created so far that you feel maybe didn't go like gangbusters, but do you feel there's one that you're like, this felt more like My style, or you really enjoyed, enjoyed creating it or doing it a certain way?

Uh, I would say so. I would say, I mean, I, I think they're all, I don't know if they're all, but they all have their own blessings and cursings, but that's a diplomatic answer. I would say the one I did about the, it's called the White Rush, which was like the Chinese downhill one.

Yeah.

That one just, that one just felt awesome because it felt like a great intersection of a really cool story to tell with actual history. Plus, like, fun ski, fun and engaging skiing. And it felt like we got to tell that story. Like, be one of the first people to really tell that story. And also, like, it was such a fun ski event. Like, I, everybody I'm talking to, and I'm like, like, you should do the event. Like, you would love the event. Like, you would have a blast. Because it's like, if you're like—

Describe it to us quickly. Like, what? Because the— is the Vise a Roush? Is that right?

Yeah, the Vicerush. So it's a 500-person Chinese downhill ski race. And it's like meant for just physical torture. So you start and it's like this like downhill section. And like everybody starts at the same time. And they have like a pistol and it's like the start pistol. So they just give you a 1-minute heads up. And then within that minute, whenever the start pistol goes, then the race starts. It could be 5 seconds after the 1 minute, it could be 59 seconds. So everybody's on edge. And you do this like downhill for like about a minute. And then it goes uphill to the point that you can't like get enough speed to go uphill. So then at like 3,000 meters, you more or less have to run at max speed for a minute. And then you get to the top of this hill, and then you have more or less the entire vertical of St. Anton, like pretty much from the top to the bottom. And they don't groom it. So they intentionally wait At, till like 5 PM and they let all the moguls get as big as humanly possible. And then they groom nothing to make it so that you are like, just your legs are getting absolutely destroyed. And then at the very end, after you make it down like 3,000 vertical meters and like by the time you ran that 1 minute, you're just like life support. Like, you know, like, did you ever do the beep test as a kid?

Yeah.

Like in gym? Imagine you did the beep test and then at the end of the beep test, somebody drops you off at the top of, uh, Top of like Tête d'Anton is just like, like fall through all this stuff, and then they build these like objects at the end, like these hills with the snowcat. So then at the end you have to ski down, then you have to take them off, and the last bit is like climbing these mountains. So it's like a ski Ironman, but it's like it's not quite the endurance; it's like more like a sprint. So like to win, you would do it in nine minutes. I got like twelfth. I did it in like. Slight, I think like 10 minutes, like 10, 11 or something like that. And then like, but like people like can train their whole lives to get under like 11. But if you enjoy ski, if you're good at skiing, which you are, and you enjoy like physical effort, then it's like a one of a kind experience. And the funnest part was just like, I've never skied at that level of physical exhaustion before. And I felt like a beginner again to some degree because like when you take out your ability To think straight. You also take out your expertise to some degree. And then also it felt like a runner's high, like, like when you were like in the middle of it, like you both wanted to like stop and puke immediately. And you were also like, oh my God, like this is like insane. So it was like just a great physical rush. And telling that story about the event was like something that I felt like it was authentic to me and it was like an interest of mine and Also, I got to do storytelling. So I'd say that was like an example of like, uh, putting a flair onto something.

Yeah, I really enjoyed watching that one. I watched that with Archie, my 8-year-old, and he, he really, he really liked that one too. So yeah, that's cool.

He can be a champion. You can start training him young.

That's right. That's right. Oh man, my— your legs going down. Yeah, after running, because I saw you, you took the strategy of not trying to like skate up. You took your skis off and ran with them after you've done that 1 minute and just full bore. And yeah, your legs are just done by the time you gotta bomb these, these moguls. And again, I guess another cool trait you show in that is utilizing expertise, like seeking out— you sought out someone who's done it before, got some tips, right, to try and help you not suck at it and actually give yourself the best chance. Oh yeah.

I would say like, just in general, if I didn't like, uh, talk to anybody, like that would be, I would've been so screwed. There's so many like small intricacies of that like event that more or less like you have, not you have to, but like people like usually like have to do it many times to like figure out, like for example, where's the best place to start and what's the best type of equipment and, and all this stuff. So it's, it's definitely a life hack in general, like if you can find somebody who's like more talented than you at something and you're humble enough to, to listen, then, uh, then it's usually a good thing.

You're gonna do well.

I don't know what the quote is, but it's just like, anybody can learn from their own mistakes. Uh, a smart person learns from somebody else's mistakes. Yeah.

Hey, why did you start a ski company?

Uh, we started a ski company, um, Mainly, it was a friend of mine, Parr's idea, and then he sort of just like pitched it. And then it sort of just the stars aligned and it worked. But I would say it was like a little bit of like, we were mainly all professional athletes, and we were working with ski companies. And then we were like, wait a second, like, you know, like, there's like this big, you know, pie, which is like, you know, a ski company And then like the professional athletes are just like this tiny like marketing, like, uh, like slant of this pie. And that basically like, I mean, the upshot of that is you deal with none of the business. So you're just, you're getting all bonus, which is like you're part of the marketing. But it did feel like, wait a second, like we ski these things every day. We're super tied into the culture and like we believe that we're, you know, Or that in general, like, freeskiers are worth more than just this, like, small pie. And like, if we want to, you know, ever be more than a small pie, then we kind of got to do it ourselves. So it was kind of this, like, naive idea that ended up working, which was like, hey, why don't we just start our own one? And then we can, you know, like, rethink things. And we can sort of like do things the way that we see fit with our perspective of having been athletes and dedicating our lives to skiing.

Yeah, you know, I was— when, when we skied together in Hintertux and we traded skis for like the skiing back down to the, the Ferner house or whatever, I was like, oh, these skis are gonna suck because it's like they're just made for park skiing. And I was like blown away. I was really surprised that I actually enjoyed them. And they kind of— they're not super narrow at all, like, and they held a good edge. Um, yeah, it was really kind of fun. So I think you've done well in making a— like, it's a good ski because I've tried some like freestyle skis that sort of don't, don't make it, don't turn very well. But those ones, I don't know what they were, but there was kind of this cool mixture of still soft in the tip but held well enough, um, in there. So yeah, credit to you. I'm, I'm impressed, man.

I, I appreciate that, and I will give the credit elsewhere. If I was the one designing these skis, they would be noodles and they would be terrible. But luckily I'm like, uh, For somebody who, like, just in general, it sounds so weird. I'm a very untechnical person. I'm— I love, like, ideas and I love blah, blah. But the technicality, even on tricks sometimes, is maybe not my, like, strength. And so, like, for example, my friend Par Hoglund or Pabin, like, he does the R&D and, like, he grew up ski racing and he really has a mind for, like, all aspects of skiing from ski racing to freeriding to park skiing. And he also has like a really good mind for the specifics of what a good ski are. So I'll give him full credit that, like, it's awesome when you start coming with your friends and then you figure out that your friends are actually extremely talented and that they— yes, that they definitely— that they got it.

Yes. So what's coming up next for you? Like, what's, what's on the horizon? What are your next projects?

So on the horizon for me, I would say Uh, well, one, I'm really enjoying getting to like ski a lot and really enjoying getting to have like a, basically like a job that is able to then like give me the opportunities to ski in cool places. So I would say just appreciating that and enjoying that is definitely high up on the priorities. Then there's always like visions of like where you want to go forward. So I would say that I, uh, been starting to do like freeriding and I've come really close to qualifying for the Freeride World Tour, like, uh, basically all 3 years on the Challenger Series. So I would say that I would love to continue my freeriding journey and to be able to eventually qualify for the tour. And then also like the same thing with like, you know, the content that I create both on YouTube and short form is like, basically like, how do I enjoy where I am at the present? But also like, how do I keep developing those crafts and how can I make, uh, videos that I feel like represent me better or more authentic or able to perform better and reach more people. So I would just say like, uh, it sounds like bad, but like basically just do what I'm doing, just do it better and keep developing is basically what's on the horizon for me, I feel like.

Yeah, nice, nice. Where's the next trip to?

The next trip is to your neck of the woods. Uh, the next trip is, uh, I don't know when this releases, but I'm gonna go to Australia. I'm gonna go to Perisher and Thredbo. I've actually never skied Thredbo. before. So I'm excited to go back. I think it's been 10 years and gonna go do some park skiing at Parisher, but then also have some YouTube video ideas. And hopefully, potentially, I would love if you were involved in one of them and also like work on my ski technique and, you know, get some days, get some days working on that.

Yeah, nice.

Nice.

Hey, Alex, The, the only thing I want to close out this conversation with is I was really, uh, surprised. Surprised is the right word? Maybe not surprised. You came across as very health conscious when I met you. And, uh, and you know, like coming from like the freestyle world, it can be a bit loose, right? You know, that culture of whatever, F the man, that sort of thing. And then you're like, no, I need to get my sleep. I'm not eating this, I'm drinking that, I've gotta, you know, get all that right. Would you say, do you really feel that part is pretty important? And I'm, I'm, this, this is, you're speaking to like the younger generation whose bodies are like, you can flog them pretty hard and they don't really notice. And then like me and older where we really are starting to notice the effects of what we do with our body. Yeah, any, any advice there? Like, was there a lesson or something that you went, I need to take better care? Or like, yeah, speak to that.

Definitely, definitely. No, I would say like, uh, I'm— what I basically learned is like, when I was younger, I could basically just ski all day and then make pretty much any like choice after skiing, and I would be like fine. I'd be able to go up and ski the next day and whatnot. And then like, as I got older, I started to realize like, wait a second, like I have like a finite amount of energy, and I might have also like a night amount of time to be able to like put into skiing because I can't just like do it like at maximum and then do it at maximum again and maximum again. So I have to like try and basically plan like when, like when I'm doing it, like how am I gonna make the most out of it? 'Cause I love skiing at maximum capability. And then started also thinking like, okay, like what are the things I can put around myself that will like maximize that window? And like for me, I would say like the biggest thing is just like a really good sleep schedule and like routine. So like I just try and like basically make sure that I'm constantly getting like approximately, let's just say 8 hours of sleep and that I'm consciously like, if I have a great day and everything's feeling good and like maybe I do want to, you know, keep talking at the, at the bar with my friends or something, I'm like, wait a second. Okay. Like if I want tomorrow to be also like a day where I have like energy and to not borrow from tomorrow's time. Like I have to have like discipline today. So I would say for myself, like, and what I found like worked really well for me, uh, to help give me more energy to be able to ski more was just basically like coming with like a pretty consistent sleep schedule. And then also I try still like even in the winter to do like about like basically like one, like, uh, basically like morning exercise, like a, like a day. Like some days it doesn't work if it's like a really big ski day, but like more or less like 5 days a week, like how to have like a physical routine and basically how to be like keeping your body like active and not just like doing it through the sport, but doing it also like proactively and doing that with like long-term thinking. So I think in general, the biggest shift was just short-term thinking to long-term thinking.

Yeah.

And then focusing mainly on getting a good like day routine and like basically like thinking long-term of like, if I maximize my days, It's great short-term, might be harder long-term. And then same thing with like exercising. Like it's like, it might not feel good every day, but I know that over the long period of time it's gonna make my body hold up. And I also think too, to like tie this in a little bit, like also has to do with like mental health as well. Like just like I also realized that I'm a person and I think many people who find their way to skiing are attracted to the adrenaline and they love getting up and they love like the, like whatnot. But I started to realize like in my personal life that I had like all these goals and that the goals demanded of me consistency and that like going like super up and super down was not the best way for me to get consistency. So it was also like part of like an overall shift too of like basically like I want to feel like happier in my skin and I wanna feel like more consistent in who I am, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

And like part of that too was like committing to like long-term things like sleep schedules and not sleep schedules. I'm not like that militant about it, Actively thinking about like how much you're sleeping and like thinking about like working out and whatnot. And I felt that that helped obviously myself as a skier to be able to get the most out of my like physical, uh, limits. But also I felt like just as a person, just like how do, how do I feel more authentic and how do I feel happier in my skin?

Yeah. Yeah. That seems to be another, uh, sort of theme with you. The, um, like how you realize the 40% more time if you went to the West Coast than the East Coast. And so I was like, you're just thinking a lot like, how do I maximize things? And so now you want to keep skiing, making videos, not be wrecked doing it. What have I got to do right now? The decisions I need to make so, so I achieve that. You're super driven, man. That's why I can just— that's why I wanted to do this podcast. I remember spending that little bit of time with you, the hour and a bit or whatever, to film that YouTube video and on the, and on the T-bar, like chatting just very quickly. And I was like, holy cow, this guy, like if he wants to achieve something, he just, he knows what to do to achieve it. So yeah, really impressed. I hope there's been some things people, people can take away. From this, uh, from this conversation. Any final words you want to say before we say goodbye?

Uh, I would just like, like flip it back, and I thought the same thing about you. I was like, holy cow, like this guy like lives in Sydney, he's like a professional ski instructor, and like, you know, just like how much it takes to be able to juggle that. And you have like a whole family and you're crushing it on the ski instructor, crushing on YouTube. And also like, how did you develop all this amazing expertise, like growing up in Australia? Like, cause like, you know how I was saying like 40% more, like you stack the cards in your favor. And I feel like in Australia, like it would be more difficult. So I have a lot of respect and I think you're also going out there and getting it. And then also just like your demeanor is just amazing. Like when you were instructing me for a day, I was like, this is like the best instructor I've worked with. Like you're so patient, you know when to be analytical, you know when to be emotionally supportive and I was like, this guy's clearly put a lot of time not just into learning skiing, but also learning basically how, how people work and how people best learn. So I would flip it back to you, which was, I was also, when I met you, I was like, this guy's awesome. Like, I, I'm super impressed. Yeah.

Pound it, man.

Woo.

Hey, thanks so much, uh, for your time, Alex. If people wanna find out more, you should search Alex Hackl on YouTube, Alex Hackl on Instagram. And check out Thousand Skis. Is that right? Yeah, that's—

yeah, 1000skis.com.

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. All right, well, I look forward to catching up with you hopefully in a couple of weeks down under in Australia with me. And, uh, yeah, we'll see, see what happens there.

Awesome, I'm looking forward to it, and, uh, it's gonna be a great trip.

There we go.

This episode is sponsored by Carv, the digital ski coach, and one of the updates I've really enjoyed this season is the addition of separate Ski IQs for moguls and short turns. In the past, Carv scoring was mainly built around carving metrics, which meant everything was viewed through that lens. But Carv have gone deep on that research and completely separated what makes a great short turn or mogul turn different from a carved turn. To give you an idea of how accurate it's become, the person at the top of the Carv leaderboard right now isn't a carving specialist, it's Olympic mogul skier Matt Graham. So the best Ski IQ in the world at the moment is coming from someone who lives and breathes bumps, and to be honest, my own highest Ski IQ is also in the moguls, which makes sense because that's my favorite type of skiing. What's really exciting this year is the addition of turn tempo, so basically your turns per minute. It's such a simple external output that's incredibly fun to play with. So good skiing isn't just about edge similarity or parallel skis, It's about how you interact with the terrain and whether you can change your tempo on demand. So seeing numbers like my quickest tempo of 117 turns per minute in the bumps gives you something concrete to compare, refine, and work toward. I've been working with Carv since 2020, and every year I'm genuinely impressed with how much the product evolves. They keep expanding what you can measure, and they're covering more and more of the turn types that skiers actually use all over the mountain. So if you're interested in tracking not just your carving but every turn you make on the snow, check out Carv. And a big thanks to the team for supporting this episode.