Stepping Stones to Mastery of Skiing w/ Josh Duncan-Smith

In this episode of the Big Picture Skiing Podcast, you'll meet Josh Duncan-Smith. Josh is a British citizen but actually spends a lot of time all around the world, as you'll find out. And what's interesting, like really interesting about this episode, is Josh talks about stepping stones, and so how he has met some really influential masters, some gurus of skiing, and how these people, each of them have given him something different and just at the right time to help him step, progress, keep moving forward in his quest to become a real master of skiing himself. And I really admire this about Josh and think it's like a great trait and quality in any person that is in the pursuit of mastering their own sport. So I think it's a really enjoyable listen. Josh shares all these sort of people he meets along the way, and you'll recognize a lot of the names he mentions. And I hope at the end of this you also perhaps get some ideas on how you can take your skiing and mastering this sport to the next level. And it's seeking out a coach or seeking out these people, these experts, is really going to open these doors and allow you to take steps towards that goal. Enjoy this inspiring episode, and also please check out Josh and Harry, his business partner, their website theskicode.it. It's just something they've started, and I think it'd be great if you're looking to take your skiing to the next level. I think joining these guys for a week or 2 weeks on one of their camps would be such a great step And, you know, you'll be able to learn all the things that Josh has learned through meeting all these, these absolute legends of the sport. Okay, let's get into the episode with Josh Duncan-Smith.

Hey, so I'm here with Josh Duncan-Smith, and Josh is tuning in from Italy, Sestriere, and it's great to have him. I'm interested first because I got Josh on really the main reason was to ask him about stepping stones or the process he's gone through to get better at skiing and seeking out masters I would call, like, real gurus of the sport. But before we get to that part, Josh, like, what's the latest? What's news? It's the start of season. Give us some— give us an update what you're doing.

Um, well, thanks for having, having me on, Tom. Um, So yeah, so right now I'm in Italy and, um, we're— myself, Harry McFadden, and Lena Peraldo— we've started up a business called The Ski Co. And, um, we franchised the Rookie Academy from New Zealand, so we've brought it over to Europe and based in Italy. And really, we're just, we're just pushing to, to get that off the ground and, and, you know, get people to, to come out and ski with us during these challenging COVID times, you know. So, um, so I'm really right now just focusing a lot of my energy on that and, and, um, having a great time skiing here. I mean, it's, it's weird. Last season I was in Switzerland when COVID was, was popping off, northern hemisphere, and It's the same here in Italy. Is Monday to Friday, there's no one skiing, so you have literally the entire resort to yourself and it's incredible. And then on the weekends, it's mad. You've got every— everyone is— all the locals, everyone around the area is all coming up and going skiing. So Monday to Friday is just beautiful, you've got the whole place to yourself. The weekend gets a bit chaotic. So just trying to get the business off the ground and, and ski as much as I can. Really?

How long have you been skiing for already?

Um, so I left New Zealand in, um, October and came over to Italy for a little bit, and then we went to Austria to do, um, 3 weeks of race training on the glaciers in Gitzsteinhorn. We managed to get 2 weeks of training in, and then essentially the government, the regional government in Austria, kicked all the tourists out because the vaccination rates in Austria at that point were a little lower. And so the hospitals were starting to get a little bit overrun, and in the Salzburg region, and so they essentially shut skiing for 1 day kicked all the tourists out and then reopened the mountain for the locals, um, which, hey, I mean, fair enough. That's what they want to do. That's what they're— that's their, you know, prerogative. But, um, we got 2 weeks of training in there and then just been back in Italy. And, and thankfully, the western side of the Alps, it's been a fantastic start to the winter. There's been a lot of snow.

Um, and so you posted some powder skiing that That's just like recently, that, that was the footage?

Yeah, that was, um, that was just over a week ago. Yeah, just about a week ago. So it snowed, I mean, must be about, um, a meter or so in that storm. And it was literally like full Japan, like, yeah, full. I mean, like, yeah, you could pick the snow up and you know, blow it in your— blow it out of your hands. And light snow, deep, and it was just full Japan. It was beautiful.

Yeah, yeah, excellent. So I'm going to get into the racing, ask you about the racing a little bit later. And also I want to get into asking you, now you get to run your own programs with, with the SkiCo, like, what— how do you want to run it? Because you're not running anyone else's thing. It's like So you get 5 people, how do you want to make them really good? So I'm interested in hearing that. But, but first of all, we rewind the clock. Like, I remember meeting you at Thredbo, and I can't remember what year that was, but, um, you know, you could already tell there was this guy who was super driven to become the best skier he could be. And from that moment on, I've seen you seek out people like JF Buliot, Takao, Riley, Paul Lorenz, and, and, you know, these people are friends of yours now, and, and other people that we can chat about. Can, can you start first with, like, you know, is that just something you do? Because you also play golf. Like, do you ever— do you have the same kind of, like, right, I'm just gonna go to the best source I can, not dilly-dally around? Like, is that something you do? In all sports? And then, and then two, maybe you want to start with like why you sought out the first person in this sort of stepping stone approach.

Yeah, yeah. Um, I think if I, if I look at that question, I take it back a little bit. Like, I played competitive tennis when I was, um, coming through school. This is before I got into skiing, really. I remember I was— it's for me, I get— I love being inspired. And I remember watching my dad showing me Roger Federer. And I mean, Roger Federer is arguably one of the greatest, if not the greatest tennis player of all time. But, and, but I remember just watching him play and feeling so inspired. And then I tried to model my game, like, the way I played off him. And so when I got into the ski scene and got into teaching skiing, I, I didn't really have a, a great understanding of, you know, World Cup races at that point and how the season ran and who the top guys were. So the people I met and who I was inspired by were ski instructors. And like, I remember that season distinctly in Threadbo, seeing— it was yourself, Paul, and Riley. And I remember we had a training session on a really cold day and everyone was freezing, and you taught us how to do speed turns. And I remember it was just— I was like, oh man, this is so— you know, this warmed us up. And it was just this different way. I mean, no one had shown me what a speed East Turn was, you know. And so, and I was a Level 2 at this point, and so it was, you know, it was just this different approach, this new thing. And it sort of got me, you know, got me thinking, okay, you know, like drills, exercises, like what can, you know, what can you do here? And then Riley McGlashan, um, taught me how to do— I'm gonna say like a proper short turn. And he— I remember one thing he said, he just said— I was, I was in a pair of Full Tilt boots, right? So, and they were, they were a size too big. And, um, that season I actually got like a proper 4-buckle boot on Riley's recommendation. Um, and Riley, he told me the simplest thing. He was like, what do you feel inside your foot? And when you ski? And I was like, oh, I don't know. So I tried to figure it out. I was like, oh, sort of just feel my foot. Didn't really have a direct, you know, approach. And Riley was like, when you get through, as you go through the turn, try to feel your heel. And it just, it just made such a difference because I had like this sort of focus point to go to. And I, you know, so it's— that's— I think for me that's the thing, is like I found people who, like, be it Roger Federer or Riley, Paul, yourself when I was in Threadbo, who were better, you know, better than me. And I watched them and I try and emulate them. And then I have, as you said, I've had the sort of privilege to work alongside people, and so I've been able to ask them questions to sort of help the process along.

Because did you go after that season, did you— you went to Canada because you were chasing— you're doing your Level 4, right?

Yeah, right.

But you— yeah, you— that's your goal was Level 4. CSIA. So you went— so then after that, did you start— did you get to work with JF then, or was it not until he came to New Zealand?

Yeah, not until I came to— so after Threadbar, I went to Canada, and I again was— I had some people I was inspired by. But at that point, I remember there was one video that changed my life, and it was a slow-motion video of Ted Liggerty skiing this pitch of Solden.

You might—

I'm sure you've seen it. I mean, I think that music— yeah, yeah, yeah, that, that music. I remember that music. Yeah, you know, makes me feel nostalgic when I hear it. But I remember watching that video, and I was training for my Level 3 at this point, and, um, seeing, seeing the way Ted moved inside the turn and the amount of edge angle he was able to cut. I mean, he was basically like lying down on one left footer. He came out over the roll lying down on the left, and he had created so much performance that it just— he exploded out of that turn, you know, went up, lost ski-snow contact, and the— and landed on the snow, let the skis sort of track forward, created just as much angle, and he was back into it. And I remember watching that video, and that spurred me on. So I pushed my skiing as hard as I could that season to try and be like Ted, and, um, passed the Level 3 skiing but failed the Level 3 teaching. And because I just hadn't— I hadn't trained my teaching, you know, I hadn't thought about the intricacies of what a good lesson is and how to do it. And so I then went to New Zealand the following year the following, you know, southern hemisphere season. Yeah. And passed the New Zealand Level 3 down there. And, um, at this point still hadn't skied with JF, but I had the head trainer at Cadrona. He's still there. His name is Dave Taylor. He's a Scottish guy who lives in— has a family, lives in New Zealand. He probably had one of the biggest impacts on me in terms of how to be a professional in the industry, like how to train and how to better myself. And, and so like, I can, I can, you know, I can take it back to even sort of finding figureheads and people. Like when I was in school, I was really bad at maths, and then I found this one teacher who was also the rugby coach, and he had probably the biggest impact on my schooling career. He sort of like taught me how to revise and how to study and got me through my GCSEs, um, uh, in maths for sure. And, um, it's the same with DT when I was at Cadrona, like just sort of inspired me in such a way to take real ownership of how to be the best that I can be, how to be better and, and turn skiing into a career. And, and then I went back to Whistler with that mindset and that approach, and I skied with two trainers, a guy called Otto Kamstra and Russ, and, um, passed the Canadian Level 4. Um, that season on the first go. And it— and I honestly put it all down to the mind, like, the approach and the mindset I got from DT. Yeah. And that season, because— and like, I've— yeah, I guess with me, if you— I think, I think if you ask my mum this, she'd say, you know, I can be quite stubborn, but if I'm properly motivated to do something, I, I give it everything. And I think now in my life I have the ability to— but I'm 29 now, so I think now in my life I have the ability to motivate myself. But honestly, when I was going through the, you know, levels, instructor levels, I needed to have that come from someone. And I think I got that from DT, and then I got that from Russ and Otto in Whistler. And then that next year I came back to New Zealand. I was a full cert in two countries, and, you know, I thought I was, you know, thought I was all that and, you know, hotshot. And then I met JF, and I think— and we talked about this just before— but I think at each point in my career, I've met the sort of the right person at the right time. They've inspired me and sort of helped motivate me, and, and then I've, I've run with it. Like, I've really— I've taken it as far as I could. So I remember paying to go and train with JF with two guys. It was John Gass, Ali McGrane, and myself, and we paid Dean and Garrett at the Rookie Academy, um, to train for two days with JF. And I remember just being blown away by the way he trained, the way he talked about skiing. I mean, you've skied with JF, you know. Yeah. In his, in his, you know, sort of French-Canadian accent when he's talking about, oh, skiing suspension, or, you know, we must, uh, you know, foot placement through the turn. Like, it's like, it's a, it's a, it's like it's poetry. Like when he speaks about skiing, it's like it's poetry. And, um, and he told me, he said, ah, you ski like I did years ago. You lift the foot, so you come up, remember, you know, don't waste energy up. And I was like, oh my God, you know, it was like he opened the door because he— it was like, okay, you're a full cert now, that's great.

Yep.

Now, now really explore skiing, like look at how you can create more performance and, and move beyond sort of instructor qualifications. Um, and so through that training with him, what I took away was, was obviously don't pop up so much, but it was also there's a world beyond qualifications. And so at that point, it sort of spurred me on, right? Who else can I find 'Who else is out there who is pushing skiing and instructor skiing like JF is?' And so that sort of brought me back around to Paul Lorenz and Riley McGlashan, who I'd met in Threadbow, and so had, you know, a relationship with them. And then I remember getting to ski with Riley, not Paul at this point, but with Riley in New Zealand that following year. And, and again, it's just one of the— like, I, I reconnected with Riley, I guess you could say. We sort of rekindled a friendship in New Zealand. And, and at that point it was— I mean, you know, this is, this is before Riley had anything going on with his hip. And I mean, he was skiing at a level, you know, I mean, it's just out of this world. I don't think I ever saw—

destroying the mountain.

I, I don't think I ever saw him make a mistake, you know what I mean? Like, not even— like, I think the most—

or if he did, it was like the coolest— it was a trick, it wasn't a mistake, it was the coolest trick.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so he, you know, so, and at that point it was— I mean, and he's incredibly knowledgeable, so I was just picking his brain all winter. But really just watching. I was just watching and being inspired, and it was sort of like learning to ski a different style, you know. Like, I had my, I guess, classical sort of instructor short turns. And I mean, carving, always you're trying to ski like Ted. I think, I think for years everyone was trying to ski like Ted when it came to long turns. It was just how much edge angle can you get, like how far can you move in, and, um But I remember watching Riley do short turns and I'm like, and bumps, and I'm like, oh my God, like, that's different. Again, door opened. It's like, why do you have to ski a certain way? Why can you not have, like, you know, why can you not have more clubs in your bag? Like, more different styles of short turn, or, you know, different techniques for different situations, like, in your bag. And so the door that opened to me there was not only for JF, it was there's a world beyond levels. Go find it. With Riley, it was like, there are different ways to do this, and, you know, it's— you depends how you want to look at it, not right or wrong, it's just there are different ways to do this. And Riley's open-mindedness, and, and I've got this from him over the years, you know, Riley and I are good friends now, and that's one of the things about Riley that I admire the most is how open-minded he is to skiing and his approach and what he's looking for. And definitely that was sort of the door. It's like he opened it up, like, there are different ways to do this, go explore, like, go and try different ways. I would—

yeah, I can remember, uh, like skiing, like training a lot with Riley and Threadbow And one season in particular, I was like, I'm gonna get better at short turns, and Riley's the man. And I can remember him telling me that he feels when he makes a short turn well, it's like a heel push and a hip dump. And what is really funny is you and I both know, as many instructors, those two things are meant to be a bad, bad feedback. Don't heel push and don't dump your hip. And he's like, but that's what I feel I'm doing. And so it was cool. I was like, I'm gonna trust this, do that. And, and of course, like, it doesn't end up being the same heel push and hip dump as, say, you know, an examiner or whatever is looking at and describing. But it's so funny that, like, that feeling and, and taking that like that, like, just goes with what you're saying about Riley being open-minded. And he's like, I don't really tell anyone this because they'd tell me don't you— you're trying to teach people to ski bad, or you know what I mean? So he keeps, he keeps quite quiet. Like, that's, that's really— he's quite humble. And just like, if people ask him for info, he'll, he'll say it, um, but he's not out there like ramming down doors saying, do it this way.

Yeah, yeah, no, totally. There was— so I'd say there were two, two people. Oh no, I mean, DT is in there, he's the third. But I would say the two people who have provoked my thought process about skiing at this point in my career the most was Riley and then also Jonathan Ballou. So Jonathan was, um, he did back-to-back winters for a long time. Now he just resides in Aspen. Um, I think if he can come to New Zealand again, he will. But he was, um, a senior examiner with the NZSIA, which is sort of the instructor organization I'm mostly involved with now. Um, and Jonathan ran technical indoor evening sessions, and this is when I was training for my Level 3, and then, and in the years beyond that, he did it as well. And I remember Jonathan saying to me, and it always stuck with me, is he said, let's challenge our beliefs. Like, within this room within this sort of space of people we have, like, let's challenge our beliefs and let's expand how we understand skiing. And Jonathan is incredibly bright and very studious. You know, he loves to study and understand more. He's got a thirst for knowledge and it's very admirable and part of why he's so inspiring. And, And so I remember at that point in time, like, I was getting this information from Jonathan, like, challenge your beliefs, you know, don't see just one turn, try and see more, open your mind. And then a couple years later, I was talking with Riley, still trying to challenge my beliefs, and I remember Riley said to me, I don't teach if beyond a beginner— or I'm pretty sure he even said that, she was like, I don't teach like leg rotation, like a rotation of the ski. He's like, I believe it differently, I teach it differently. And I remember when Riley said that, I was like, ah, I am definitely challenging my beliefs now. This is so out there compared to what you'd been, you know, that pedigree of ski instructor pathway that you, you know, you get brought up on. And, and so For sure. I mean, I got that from Jonathan, and I definitely got that from Riley, of like, just challenge your beliefs, understand skiing for what it is. And, and definitely, I mean, that both of them in that regard spurred me on, opened the door, you know.

Yep. And then, so you did some skiing, so that's New Zealand, Riley. Who came along next? Did you get to— was it probably Takao was the next maybe influence, or Richie, or—

yeah, so at the next point in my career, I— at this point, I, I finished— I left Whistler, um, and I moved to Japan, and I worked for Paul Lorenz at Niseko-based Snow Sports, NBS, when he was still the ski school director there. And so this— now enter the, you know, I guess figureheads inspires masters of sport. Now enter Paul Lorenz. And again, I met Paulie in Threadbo, but when I went to work for him, sort of rekindled a friendship. And, you know, we just got together again and became friends, like better friends. And Paulie at this point was, was doing the technical competitions in Japan. And so the inspiration for me, the opening of the door at this point that I got from Pauli was Japan and the technique and the way that the Japanese look at technical skiing and the whole, you know, competition scene and what's going on there. And I remember sitting in a gondola with Riley, Paul, Kaskonen, Benji, um, I think James Wilkins was in there, and my poles were like 2 handles higher than everyone else's in the gondola, you know, because we're sitting there, you know, with our poles and skis are outside. And I remember looking around like, I was like, I've got long poles, you know. And everyone was like, oh yeah, mate, out in Japan you got to chop them down, you know, technical competition pole. And so I was like, okay, wow, all right. So, you know, I think at that point even I was like a 115. So I had chopped down, but I think, you know, and that season I went to a 110 in my pole length, you know, because I was like, right, I mean, why do I need long poles? You know, I'm not, I'm not starting, I'm not pushing out the start gate, you know, racing. I'm, you know, I'm not, I don't need to lean on them, you know. I just, I need the poles for a purpose, and that's to ski with more performance on soft snow, trying to sort of emulate the Japanese guys. And so That, through Paulie, that season definitely it opened me up to really a different way of performing, and that was in, in like technical competitions. And, and that was really eye-opening because I did the competition that year. I made— my goal was to make the cut. Right, so after day 1, there's, I think there's about 300 male competitors in the Hokkaido state competition, or maybe 250. And after the first day, they cut about 100 to 150 competitors are cut because their scores aren't high enough. And so my goal was just to make the cut, and I did. And I remember standing at the top of the bumps line on day 2 with Riley. Riley and I had, I think I had was bib 134, on day 2, and I think Riley was like 130, and they just ran in numerical order on the bumps. And I remember seeing these, these Japanese guys. I mean, this is West Tiger. To give you an example, um, if you've skied Whistler, it's like the saddle. So you come over the roll, it's like the sort of saddle, that steep slope. Um, if you've skied in, well, Japan, in Hokkaido, would be Tiger. Um, in Verbier. It's sort of the steep black on the Nonda side. I'm just trying to give a bit of reference.

Yeah, it's a steep run.

And I remember Riley and I were there and we just saw people, I mean, skating into this zipper line. There were 3 zipper lines and they were just pushing in, bang, bang, bang. I mean, a couple of guys would just go like bang bang and explode everywhere, you know. They were giving it everything. And you would see, I mean, some of them were just wizards. I mean, absolute wizards at skiing these deep round bump lines. And I remember Riley looked at me and I looked at Riley and I was like, I was like, man, I've got to work tomorrow. I'm like, I can't kill myself down there. And Riley was like, I know. He's like, I've got— he's like, I've got a 10-day booking starting tomorrow. And, um, and so Riley and I both— I mean, Riley skied it better than I did, but I sort of like puttered down, you know. I, I just skied a very round line and just tried to avoid the holes and, and just not kill myself. And I just remember that, that instance being like, wow, these guys are pushing it. Like, they really are trying to push their skiing. And so I stayed in Japan for another— I stayed and taught in Japan for another 3 seasons after that. I did the technical competition, uh, twice, and both times was just immensely inspired by, um, by everyone in that scene and trained really hard to try and do better. The second time I did the competition, I wanted to be in the top 50, and I did. I think I came 45th that year. And I think Paul— I think Paul and I, um, were the only two guys to make the cut because Riley didn't do it. Um, I think I came 45th and I think Paulie came like 38th. That was the year Paulie had that video, it's like Spider-Man versus the Hulk thing. Yeah, some people might have seen that because I was wearing red and blue and he had the green. Yeah, yeah. And so that was fun because Paulie and I sort of made like we weren't really going to make the, the cut to make the finals. They don't allow, um, or they haven't allowed foreigners to make the cut, the state cut, to represent Hokkaido at the nationals. Um, Paulie has been the closest. I think he's missed out by, you know, like one or two spots. So I think there's probably a bit of a, I don't know, politics, a bit of Yeah, political controversy there is to really— but, but anyway, it is what it is. And, um, and again, that was an incredible— that was incredibly inspiring because at this point now I had skied, as you mentioned, in those 4 years I skied with Takao Maruyama both in New Zealand and in Japan. And I'm— I know that you'll say this like a bit of—

for a bit of perspective, the competitions you're talking about the national Japanese one. I don't know how many times Takao Maruyama has won it, but it's 4.

Yeah, I think 4. So he's—

I think 4. Like, he's been considered the best technical skier in all of Japan at least 4 times.

Yeah.

So this guy is— this guy's up there. Yeah. So you now get to ski with him. What do you—

what do you get from Takao? And I firstly, I said, and I know you, you, you agree with this as well, Tom, is Takao's one of the nicest men I've, I've met. You know, he's just a— he is a great gentleman, like just a— yeah, an absolute gentleman. And, you know, just a really sweet man, like he's really caring and compassionate and, um, just engaging. Like, he'll, he'll talk with you about skiing as long as you want, you know. He loves it just as much as we do. And, um, so I've sort of had inspiring figures who at certain points have opened doors to me. What I got from Takao was firstly, it was inspiration just through watching him. Because I have videos of Takao saved on my phone. And he was actually nice enough, he actually gave me some training videos of his because I said, oh, Takao, what are you working on in your skiing? This is when we were in New Zealand. And he actually goes, oh, I'm trying to change my short turn for the comp. And so he, he's given me some videos. And so firstly, it's, it's really been just blown away by the beauty in his skiing. Like, he said to me when I first started skiing with him that he wants— he tries to be powerful but elegant. And I think part of that elegance is really to do with how soft the snow is in Japan. Like, you can't grunt. You know, like, you watch some World Cup races who are incredibly powerful because of the ice that they're skiing on and the, you know, just the difficulty of the slope. It can be grunty at times, you know, big stivet, hit the edge hard, get off the edge as fast as you can. And it can be a little, um, a little more grunty. I think because of the texture of the snow and how soft it is, I think he has to be elegant. He has to have a lot more touch. On the snow, because if you push down on it, I mean, you just bury the ski. Um, and so I remember just watching him being like, right, he told me that he wants to be elegant. I'm like, you are the most elegant skier I've ever seen. I mean, it's, it's madness, you know. Every movement he makes is, it's like a dance. I mean, every movement he makes is choreographed to perfection. And, and it's to create a performance. I mean, he does generate insane ski performance, you know, like I've seen him just be like Ted. I mean, like completely upside down coming down Main Street, which is the main run down to the base of Treble Cone, just like upside down on his— I think he's got a 25 or 23 meter like long turn competition ski. He's just like upside down on it. You know. Yeah. And, um, so he generates such performance. But when it came to training with him, what I got really was— it was just, it was accuracy. It was, I think, the biggest thing. I mean, I definitely got a lot out of my own skiing from him. You know, how to—

like, what would you say? Because I— do you remember that, that training session he did, um, where like Jazz Bruce was there? And yeah, with the rookies early season. And, um, and I remember you, Riley, and I were there at the bottom of Main Street, like the session was over, where they're like hammering Dak Alphamore. Yeah. And Riley and you were there asking him, so where, like where exactly you're pointing your pelvis. And because remember, he was like talking about like a turntable, like, yeah, yeah, like, so there's the pelvis being like on a turntable on the hip. So like, don't— like, I feel that unlocked, that unlocked something for me literally that day.

Yeah, that was— I definitely remember that session. I've got, I've got video of that actually. I think you filmed, I think you did film the whole thing, and so we got that. Turntable bit on video. But I think with, with my own ski performance, I think with Takao it's two things. I'll finish the accuracy point and then I'll come to what you just mentioned there. But I've learned a lot how to train, like how to be a leader and a trainer from him, in just how to be really accurate with what you want your students to do. And, you know, take your time, be a gentleman, all of that. But But really, like, the way he teaches is, is beautiful. I mean, I've— for rookies, I've had to edit, um, like, uh, training vid. Like, I film, you know, Takao, Seth Michel, um, Riley, whoever. I think it's mainly been those two, but, um, their training runs, uh, training sessions. And I've had to, like, chop and piece it together and put— yeah, edit a video for for Rookie YouTube. And when I edited Takao's, it's— and this is not taking away from anyone else I've ever filmed, but it, it was the easiest thing I've ever edited that hasn't been—

I know exactly what you mean—

that hasn't been my own content. Every piece of information he said linked on from the net, from the previous, and it all just— it's to say it all fits into line.

And he's speaking English, which is English.

Yes, second—

getting better at it, but you know, yeah, it's not— doesn't come easy.

Yeah, so I— so that was— when I say accuracy, that's what I mean. It's like when I've trained with him— and again, this is not taking away from anyone else I've skied with, they're all incredible trainers— it was just maybe it was because he was a second language But he's— it's just so to the point and so sort of like succinct. This is what needs to happen. And then he gives demos that, that show exactly what he's saying.

Yeah, yeah, he does exactly what he says. It's not like, I think I see what he's talking about. You, you see it. Yeah, yeah.

And I remember at, um, at Interski, the Interski I've been to in Bulgaria, um, I think, um, we at the NZSA had like— I had a real decent show on our one. We had about like, I think 60 people came along. I think Paulie had, um, Paulie, uh, had maybe like 70, 80 people came along. I literally think the whole of Interski came to Takao's clinic. He had like— he had like a— he had like 150 people there, you know, all just want— because I mean, at this point now, you know, with social media and everything, like the Japanese ski technique was causing controversy in some circles and inspiring others. And but anyway, there was a lot of discussion around it. There was a lot of like, who is Takao Maruyama? What does he do? You know? And he, I think he literally had like 150 people at his clinic. And he, he, he said he had a translator there. And he said at the beginning, he's like, I'm gonna try this in English. And it was like, mate, like, awesome, go for it. And And it was just so to the point, you know, with all of those people there, it was so accurate with what the Japanese methodology was and how they wanted to demo it. And, and so that's the accuracy I've gotten from him at that point in time when I started training with him in my career. And in terms of ski performance, the turntable thing you're talking about, for me, he was talking about allowing the hip or the pelvis essentially to like rotate rotate into the turn to help with the, you know, with the creation of edge angle. And at that point, I— it was, it was definitely lost on me a little bit, you know, how to, how to make this, how to make it happen. And then, um, I would honestly, I'd honestly say in the last 2 years, yeah, the last 2 years like sort of New Zealand season just gone, the northern hemisphere season, and the, you know, the southern before that, it clicked for me. And I was like, ah, it was a feeling too. You got this. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was, it was a powerful, like very, very strong on the top of the turn. Yeah. And particularly in short turns. Yeah, like particularly in short terms. And, um, in long terms, I think, you know, for me right now, I've been this way for a while. I'm just trying to really be as aligned as I can to manage the load and the force that, um, that I want to generate. So for me, through long terms, it's really, um, working through phases of alignment. And, um, and I've been with that for a while. I mean, the hip move, the hip roll is there a little bit, but not as much as it is in the short turn. And I skied in Switzerland last year with a guy called Jamie Kagan. So he's the head of education for IAZI, and he's a Canadian level 4.

And, um, you know, I used to work with Jamie at Silver Star. He, he and I used to go to the pub together. And yeah, it's funny. Yeah, the same people are going staying like in the industry, you know. And so what—

yeah, you got—

you skied with Jamie, sorry.

Yeah, so, so we were, we were in— so I was in Switzerland, um, and I wasn't working last season. We were just sort of investing in the ski co, in the building of the, um, company, creating content, that type of stuff. But Jamie runs, um, ES Nonda, so he, he's based there, and we were living in Nonda, and, um I hadn't met him before, got to meet him, incredible guy, really, really, really lovely man and, um, great skier. But I remember we were doing some training together one day, and I've been really trying to work on this in my short turns because I was trying to create sort of as much early edge as I can. And I mean, as we know, you know, if you, if you hold the hip back and you just try and rotate the the femur, there's so much you could get, but if you allow the hip to rotate with it, you can just create more. And I was explaining this to Jamie, and Jamie was like, oh, he's like, that's different. He's like, I've seen it in skiing, but it's interesting to talk with someone who's really an advocate for it. And Jamie said, let me— we've been training a little bit together. And Jamie said, let me follow you. And I was like, sure. So I did some short turns down the main pitch into Nonda, and Jamie got to the bottom and he was like, ah, he's like, I can see it now. Because you can sort of— he's like, I could see it from the back.

Essentially, it's easy to see from the back.

Yeah, so it's like through transition. And, and I think— and now I think Jamie's trying to work on that in his skiing. I think that's what he said.

I must say, I did see a scheme the other day just because he posts some stuff, and I was like, something's changing. There's— and you know what's like, for want of a better word, there's— it's smoother. Because I think that, yeah, like the, the, the hip roll, what Tackhouse have introduced us to— well, first of all, I would say that was definitely one of those things that if it didn't come from someone like him, you would you would think someone's trying to teach you to rotate your upper body. Yeah, like, and again, another like no-no. Like, you're all through your ski career, you're trying to not rotate your hip, you know. Instructors will know this. And so Takao is saying rotate it, rotate. And that's funny, it's like the Riley heel push hip dump. I hear this, I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna do it, I'm in, you know. Um, but, but, you know, like, yeah, I think it's just interesting that those things have led to really opening up people's skiing. It's just— and again, it's an interpretation of like, like when you do it, I think is really important, right? Because I think when people get stung for it, it's, it's a different time, and they're also not really focused on edging as a result of the hip rotation. And then the hip rotation thing is an edging thing. So yeah, and what was the other thing I wanted to point out was like you said It was like 2 years. And I just think like something is really important in that because a lot of people say like, you know, Jamie was— has been given this like, ah, new thing, and he's like an inter-ski level skier. He's not just got it. And I think it's just a good message that, you know, you— we all like— we're work— it takes years. And, uh, and what I think people do is they just drop it because they're maybe not getting results. Maybe that's part of what you've learned is like, get something, and if the season is literally just that, that's what you need to do. Would that be fair to say?

100%. I mean, I've like— I think so. A couple things on that. I think one is the timing. So like, I've met these figureheads, and I think there's still one we could probably talk— we will talk about, which is Richie Berger, who came last. But, um, I've met these people at certain points in my career. Like, to get me to full cert, I met DT, and he showed me how to be a professional and how to train. And then I met JF, and he showed me that there was a world beyond qualifications. And then I reconnected with Riley, and he opened my mind to all types of skiing, right? Then I met Then I reconnected with Paulie, and he opened me up to, you know, this world of competition in Japan. And then from that, with rookies as well, met Takao. And he basically— it was— it's on the same level of like, he showed me how to be a better trainer and gave me information to create more ski performance and, and push my skiing further within this sort of hip alignment world. And, um, and so I think the timing of when you hear information, when you get it, is, is really crucial. Um, for me, I was lucky enough to have these doors opened at the right time, um, so I could just walk straight through them. But with that, as you're on your point of taking 2 years to get a click or to feel it, is, um, you have to be obsessed. Like, I'm, I am, I'm truly obsessed with skiing. Like, I love the— like, I love trying to master it, you know? Like, like, I, I— this is literally yesterday. I'm, um, because I'm out here trying to do, um, some sort of race stuff, um, for some qualifications still to do in Europe. And so I'm only skiing on my GS skis at the moment. I've got a 25-meter GS and a 23-meter GS. And just yesterday I went out with Harry and we were filming, and I've got one run out of the whole day. I've got one run that stands out to me that I'm— that I like, and it's just— I'm obsessed with it, you know? Like, I'm, I'm looking at those videos and I'm like, okay, here's that one run, and on that one run, here are two turns that I linked together that I'm— this is what I'm trying to do. When I'm, you know, performing a long— like a long radius carve turn.

Yeah, out of hundreds of turns. Yeah, you know, and like, I think that's so crucial. Like, at this point, you're looking for that little bit of a sniff of like, ah, I can change, improve. There it was. And yeah, I totally agree that you see it and you, you just like watch it, watch it. And it sinks into like exactly what you'd done differently to before, and you're really trying to hold on to that. And I think it's amazing today with video and phone, like, it's, it's— you can accelerate things, I think, faster than possibly what, what it could be like back, you know, yeah, 20 years ago for sure.

Like, what were the things you liked in those, in those long turns? What, what is it? Essentially, it's, it's just the, the way in which I move in So I've got a new— like, the cue I'm working on myself with right now is connect to the particular— particularly my right foot, but I mean both feet— connect to the foot. So like, connect to the outside foot and then release the hip. So that's my little sequence. Yeah, in a sequence. So through, through transition, it's connect to the new outside foot and then release the hip. Now that's— I've sort of— I was working through that sequence, different wording, in New Zealand this, this, um, summer. But when I came to Italy, there's, um, I mean, just the, the instructors, so like the Italian trainers, I mean, are just beautiful on-piste skiers. I mean, just really, really great skiers. There's one guy in particular who I know, his name's Jack Demmer. And, um, he was— I just asked him, you know, I'm always asking people, I'm like, so what are you working on? What are you thinking about in your skiing? And, um, because we on day one, I'll just say like we were skiing and it was a bit icy, um, you know, when I skied with him this season earlier. And, um, there was over this pitch, I came in, skied the pitch, but it was a bit slick, so I had to give a little bit of a, you know, a little bit of a skid of the ski and then find the edge a bit later. And sort of work the pitch that way. Jack came down and made it look like it was, you know, midwinter piste. And I mean, he just demolished the slope. I was like, oh fuck, I was like, right, okay, I need to do that now. So, um, I was chatting to him and he said to me, ah, he said it all starts with connecting to the foot. It's like it all starts with the outside foot. He's like, if I need to get on that outside foot earlier— and the Italians have a slightly different style to, I say, what I do. They're a bit more up and over, classical. The more I am. But Jack was saying, he's like, it's all about connecting to the foot. And it got me thinking about— just that conversation got me thinking about, like, how do we pressure the outside ski? And— or not to say how, but how do people perceive pressure to the outside ski? Because you hear a lot of World Cup racers talk about you've got to press on it. Like, they'll, they'll say, like, you— like, I've heard Ted say before, he's like, once you find it, he's like, you've got to literally, like, push as hard as you can into the outside ski to try and generate, you know, force. I've heard when I've spoken to Alice Robinson, she's talked about that. Um, and someone like Jack, the way he was explaining it— now, his English is second language— the way he was explaining it to me it was— it seemed like it was more of a purposeful force application. And, and it's— that's not necessarily what I've thought about over the years. Like, I've thought about a connection to it, but essentially, like, being balanced on it without a doubt as early as you can, but allowing pressure and force to build to, like, to the outside ski. Not try and push it away. Because if you haven't created edge angle, like enough edge angle, some platform angle to let the ski— so the ski will hold, then essentially when you push this, the outside ski will slip away, right? Like, what I mean, I teach people, you know, you don't want to push on the ski because if they're not— but if they're not balanced on it, they're literally going to make a wedge, right? They're going to stand their foot away. But talking to Jack this season, it just got me thinking about like the magnitude of internal force you, you want to be applying to the outside ski as early as you can, as Jack put it. And so that's where I've rebranded in my mind the— my sort of I guess, mantra or phrase. Yeah, training. So connect to the outside ski and then, and then release the hip. And so I'm, I'm playing around now in these long turns. I think I did it with just the amount of like pressure I'm trying to apply, not that I'm receiving back from the snow, but the amount of sort of force to the outside ski I'm trying to apply. And then once I have that connection I then release the hip and, you know, move in and at the same time shorten the inside leg.

Yep. Yeah, cool, very cool. And like, I get what you mean with that because I probably— I guess it's the kind of people we work with on, on most occasions is not— we're not working with Alice Robinson, you know, like, so we're probably shying away from those kind of cues. Which leads into us doing the same thing and demonstrating in our own skin the same way. But it's cool, you're, you're again finding another one of those like things that's like, huh, I need to like explore this. And that's exactly what you're doing. And through hundreds of turns, you got two.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm doing it.

Um, so then do you think you can see it How does it come? How is the outcome on video? Does it look— would you be able to show and say, look, see, Tom, see, I push, uh, like, do you— or how does it look?

So the way it looks to me is like I can move inside, or begin to move inside, with a little bit more sort of purpose earlier in, in the turn. And particularly on the Gieski, so on the 23— the 23-meter was the one I was using yesterday. And so I feel like I just have a bit more, more ability when I'm looking at those two turns to essentially like shape the arc sort of in a tighter radius, if that makes sense. Now, I mean, if you're increasing edge angle, you're going to be bending the ski, you're going to be tightening the radius. But it's just, I guess, the sort of emphatic nature that I was able to do it in those two turns. It, you know, and but connecting to the outside ski is not a new No groundbreaking thing by any stretch. I mean, it's what you learn on day one. Once you've changed some direction, it's like, okay, this is the outside ski. It changes each turn. It's probably your— it will be your best friend, you know. Stay with it, you know. Yeah, so, um, it's nothing new. It's just— I don't know, talking to Jack, it was interesting. I guess in my mind what it inspired in me was, am I being too passive Am I, you know, am I aligning to the outside ski but not doing enough with it fast enough? Yeah, you know, and I remember, and again, this actually got me thinking about, and this is where the obsession bit comes in, I remember I reminisced after this conversation with Jack about a conversation I had with Jonathan Ballou years ago. And Jonathan said, like, watching World Cup races, he just— it was a bit of an off-cut, off-comment, but he said he was like, oh, it's, it's just a race who can get to the outside ski fastest. And, and it just— when I have this conversation with Jack, it just got me thinking. I was like, oh, I was like, Jonathan said that years ago. And, and I was like, right, okay, am I getting to the outside ski fast enough? And when I say getting there, I mean, am I doing anything with it? Quick enough. Yeah. And so that's, that's where it's, it's sort of— that's this connection to the outside for me that I like.

I think it doesn't, um, yeah, it doesn't do it justice, does it? Like, the way, like, you hear yourself talking about it, but really, like, in your mind it's so much more elaborate, isn't it? Like, there's these feelings and, like, you know, like, and pictures in your mind, do you know what I mean? Like And I think that's where it becomes really hard to teach and coach skiing, because here's you again still working on what you teach a Level 1— find the outside ski, you know, connect with it, maybe press on it a bit.

Yeah.

And, you know, years down the track, like, but it, but it's really— it would be like at Level 1, a stick figure drawing of what's going on, whereas this is like a Matisse. Like, I may, you know, like the way you think about the outside ski, it's just you have to put words to it which really don't do it justice.

It doesn't.

It's just like, it's a shame.

Yeah. And it's like each step of the way, you know, I mean, on that is like the skills of skiing essentially don't change, you know, from, from a beginner skier all the way to what you and I are trying to do on snow. It's all the same. It's just you know, the timing changes, right? Like, uh, when you're making a wedge turn, you balance on the outside ski later, you know. Now I'm trying to, you know, balance on it, you know, as early upside down in a way. Yeah, yeah, like trying to balance on it upside down. And, and so, yeah, it's just that, that situation changes as your, in, as your goals and your intentions and you know, your performance threshold changes as you go through your, you know, as you get better and better at skiing, you know. And I remember—

oh, go ahead, go ahead.

I was just gonna, just to finish this point off, actually, I was just gonna say at the beginning of this last New Zealand season, I was privileged enough to have a— be able to meet Alice in person and actually like have a couple of, like a good conversation with her. And being the ski nerd I was, I had to ask her about when it changed for her this last season. So at the beginning of this, like, last World Cup season, she wasn't performing as she can. I mean, um, you know, I think Shiffrin has said that when she's on, Alice has the fastest GS turn in the world, you know. So I mean, Alice Robinson's ceiling is number 1 in the world in GS. That's literally her— where she can get to. And she wasn't quite performing that way. And I said, so, you know, what changed for you? Like, was it technical, you know, what was going on. And she, she just said to me, she was like, I was able to generate pressure earlier and I was able to ski my, my line through the course. And I was like, right. And then she elaborated on it a little bit, and, and she was essentially just saying the same thing. She was like, I'm working the outside ski through the path I wanted to take earlier in the turn. And she was like, that's what clicked for me. She was like, I got a feeling of basically being more round, as she, she calls it. Her, her line is a round line. That's what she says she likes to do. So, um, she, she said she doesn't have the touch of like going at the gate, feathering it, hitting the edge, and then getting off, um, as maybe a Bassino does, someone like that. She said Alice is like, I'm more powerful and I'm, I'm rounder when I get to go round and I can generate this pressure or this feeling of pressure earlier through the outside ski. She's like, then I'm feeling good. And that's what she said clicked. And, and it's to say, it's pretty much the same. It's— yeah, she's on a totally different level than I am, but you know, it's, it's, it's essentially the same thing as what I'm talking about now with connected, same part of the turn that's really key to, yeah, success of the rest of it.

So yeah, okay, awesome. That's really interesting. Now we, we get to Richie, Richie Berger. And you know, so people don't know, absolute legend. He's— I don't know, how old is he now?

Is he— I think— no, he's 50. No, no, no, he's 52. I think Richie's 52. 52.

Yep. But skis like an— like a beast everywhere. What did you— what did you get from him other than like of the obvious inspiration? Like, I mean, this guy's getting better as he gets older almost.

Yeah, I, I was— I first time I skied with Richie and met Richie, I was in Niseko and we were in Japan, and Riley had organized a night training session for Um, because in, in Niseko, for those who don't know, you can ski from 8:30 in the morning until 8:30 at night. They have floodlights on the whole front face of the mountain. Um, and so Riley had organized this in March, so end of this— end of the— coming to the end of, um, the Japanese season in sort of mid-March. Um, it's start— the snow starting to go into a spring cycle. And Riley had organized this night session. I think I was there, Paulie, Riley, Benji, Cass, just sort of like the crew that we have, the tech crew that we have there. And it was like coral reef, just really hideous snow. And we got to the— we got to some bumps, and Richie just— I mean, he top to bottom, he just went from top to bottom. Didn't, you know, no mistakes made, nothing. And, you know, I remember just like watching that and I'm like, right, okay, all right, okay, you know, this, this is— you're watching, you're watching a true master here. And so I sort of just— I really— that training session, I skied, I skied, you know, trying to get better, but really I was just there watching and listening. And, um, I remember we, we went— we had— he took us up to Super Ridge, which is just this outside part of the, um, the front face. And he went down, and I mean, he made it look like he was skiing powder like butter. I mean, it was like just so graceful, so just precise. Then Riley went down, and you were like, oh yeah. And then Paul went down, you're like, oh yeah. And I think everyone else fell over on the way down. You know, because it was just like— I mean, you'd land in it and you would just punch through, like, I don't know, a layer sort of this deep of refrozen spring snow, and you punch through into like that corn stuff. And it was just— it was, it was brutal, brutal snow. And just watching him and then Riley and Paul go down, and so for sure. That was my first experience with him. And just listening to what he was talking about, a lot of the technique was— he said he likes when skiing looks easy. So he's trying to make skiing look easy. That was his sort of message of the night, was good skiing is easy skiing, um, but while going fast. And, um, and the technical concepts I got from that evening, um, again, weren't anything overly groundbreaking. It was more just trying to go from full line to full line and, um, being disciplined. I think really is what he was talking about, was just being disciplined with the body from these two sort of like pressure phases to pressure phase, particularly in that snow. And And then went away with that concept, and then we arranged another training session with him that, um, spring in, um, Kitzsteinhorn, so on the glacier in Austria. So that was Riley, Lena, Harry, and Nina and myself, and the purpose of that was to ski bumps. And I have a video somewhere on my hard drive of— he was talking to us just all about a variety of lines, and one of them was like trough hopping. And I remember I have a video somewhere of him going on this zipline on a pretty steep red run, and he hopped every single trough down. And I'm standing at the bottom and I'm just like, how like, what are you doing, man? Like, how is this— I mean, he was just faster and faster and faster. And then I think the last couple of turns, he just took it back in. I think he's going a bit too fast to keep hopping. So, so yeah, so I remember on that session, or like on the, the 3 days we had him— I think we had him for 3 days— he, um, he just— it was like a history lesson in skiing. It was. And, and at that point, you know, the door that opened for me then was essentially what, what it could be. It was like a look at— and I'm, I'm not saying I'm gonna be Richie Berger, I mean, that's, you know, impossible— but it was just like a look at, like, you know, like what an ideal career would be in a sense, you know. I mean, the man's like, at this point now he was 50 when I skied with him, so, you know, 50 years old and still head and shoulders above, showing up these young guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it was, you know, for me it was like at that point it was like an opening a door of like, okay, like this is, this is what you could, you know, this is what you could be doing, you know, carrying on a career. Like this could be the future of the career, right? Sort of being someone like that. So it was more, it was more inspirational but through a, a future sort of like a future.

No, I get Yeah, yeah, because you— this, this guy is like, yeah, doing it still at such a high level, showing you things that, you know, like this, this, the trough skipping thing, and not just like let's skip 3 troughs and stop. It's like incredibly, you know, well above, you know.

And one of the, one of the best things that we got from that was he just, he literally just had us in the zipline basic parallel turns around the zipper. So you don't go in the hole, you stay— you don't even go into it at all. You just do like a short, short basic parallel turn over the bridge and around. And it's really hard, it's really hard, particularly, you know, if the snow's not ideal. Yeah, because you—

and catch— ski catches, right? It's very hard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've got to be so precise with where your feet are and the timing of your balance and weight change to the outside ski and how much you steer the ski, how much you edge the ski. So it's a real precision. And that's, that's, you know, that was part of it, was like if I was looking at him and the doors and the inspiration I got was like being precise and exact with what you're doing and just enough gives you the ability to have longevity. And then if you're operating at a high level for the amount of years that he's been doing it at, you know, there might be opportunities down the line to build, you know, a sort of work— working repertoire like he does. You know, like, I would love, you know, future me in this industry to have an opportunity for a group of young instructors like, oh, let's, you know, book Josh for you know, a couple weeks to do a bumps camp like it happened in Kitzsteinhorn, you know. I think, yeah, what I got from Richie was, you know, if you, if you hold yourself to this incredibly high standard and you're always exact in what you want and in your own performance and, and you're consistent for all of these years, you're just consistently doing it at that level then, then that's where you could be later, later on in life. I think that's what I got from him. And, and he is, he's a true, true professional and a really, really just incredible advocate for, for, um, a professional ski instructor, like what a professional ski instructor is. I mean, he really is, really is.

Hey, so On the bit techy skiing side, what did you get from— what was he trying to do with the trough skipping? So because that's pretty brutal, right? Like you're, you're basically colliding into a bump, into like— you're not— yeah, you're trying to take it head on. What did you get from it?

What was it? So the intent— his— it was, it was the context of it was different lines for different situations. So we ran through— I mean, so round that you're on the outside of it, um, like safety checking. So like in the bump, like, like where can you safely scrub a lot of speed, um, trough hopping, um, then there was the round line, direct line, um, gosh, I think there was one— I think there was one more. There was sort of like— yeah, I call it a round direct line, but essentially it's It's like in between around and straight. There's like that middle. Now, Tchaikovsky's that line quite a lot. Um, yeah. And, and so, yeah, so it was, it was all the context was it was like he was showing us all of the lines you could possibly do to make sure that you're prepared. Yeah, you're prepared and you're demonstrating a consistent amount of performance the whole way. Like, you're not getting— when I say performance, I don't mean ski performance, I just mean that you're not getting blown up out of the bum. So he was saying, like, if you're going too fast, like, if you've hit a big wall and you get a bit back, he's like, you have to then hop the next one. So he was like, you then hop that next one, hop that next one. Now you're back on your feet, you might be going a bit too quick. Into this next bump. Here's the safe place where you can control your speed. Then you take it into a couple round ones, then you go direct again. But essentially, you're, you're maintaining your descent and you're demonstrating great skiing even though things to you feel a bit off and you're having to change lines. Yeah. So, so that was the, the context behind that. And then, um, Yeah, we— with Richie, we did— we asked— yeah, we did some— we did a bunch of exer— we did a lot of exercises, um, you know, wanting to know sort of what, like, how he trains himself when it comes to drills. Um, one of the big ones he does is in the morning, and I, I do this every now and again, um, don't let your poles touch the ground when you're warming up. Your first, like, 2 runs of the day, like, don't let your poles touch the ground at all. Don't pole plant, just discipline there. So when you move inside, your inside pole doesn't touch.

And it's like standing no-poles, basically, almost.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty, pretty much. Yeah, it's just keeping the pole, but, but you have, you have them there. And yeah, so yeah, so that was, that's one of his warm-up exercises. And then we got into, um, like sit-down hockey stops. I thought was really fun. I'd never seen that before. I've sort of taken, taken that on. And I love that exercise, um, and, you know, as a way to move inside, but doing it in a, in a really slow way. Yeah, like a really slow and safe way. Yeah, you don't have to go fast, but you get a feeling for moving inside. And then also you feel the alignment, because sometimes people like come in and sit back, you know, and it's in a sit-down hockey stop. And he's like, no, this is bad. You have hip counter and you're behind the center of your feet. So it teaches people that, you know, I think honestly one of the, one of the biggest feelings that skiers have to get when they're trying to take their skiing to the next level, particularly if they want more performance out of the ski, is to work the ski, like to move the ski through the arc, to move it forward through the arc, but at the same time, their, their body or their center of mass has to move with that ski as it comes through, you know. So it's like, um, yeah, so I think that's one of the big— and that's something that we got from Richie, and, and he showed us that in the sit-down hockey stop, um, you know. So, so yeah, a bunch of— it was a great, really great 3 days.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I think like he and Riley in particular, uh, drill, drill people. Like, let the drills do the teaching. And I think probably the most consistent way a skier could get better is drills, right? Like, get good at all these different drills. And yeah, I think a lot of people skip that. People, they just don't want to do the time.

Yeah. And I remember, um, I remember when I was training for my BASE Level 2, and this stuck with me, this has stuck me all the way through. Um, the trainer I had, his name was Rupert Tilsley, a BASE guy, and, um, he said— I had, at this point I was quite into freestyle skiing, so I had quite baggy clothing— and, um, he said to me, he was like, I can't see what your legs are doing, your pants are too baggy, you have to exaggerate the movement. You have to exaggerate the drill. And I did it, and I kept doing it because he kept telling me to exaggerate it. And my skiing changed, funnily enough. And yeah, funnily enough. And, um, and so that— I think that's one of the things is like doing an exercise, but in the— the purpose of the exercise is essentially to break down and isolate a movement pattern that, you know, impacts the ski, right, for a certain performance. And so you, you exaggerate it and you repeat it, and then over time it builds in and you don't have to do the exercise.

Yeah, because you get that feeling, you just need that feeling, right? And I think people, they do the same crap inside of a drill even though it's, you know, might be to try and help it, but they're feeling the same feelings. And like, to Rupert's thing, like, keep doing it, keep doing it. It's kind of probably lucky you had baggy pants.

In a way, it was like, yeah, he was like, of course he couldn't see it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Um, Josh, we're coming up on a pretty good amount of time here, and so maybe we should wrap it up. But I've, I've really enjoyed chatting with you again. I, I feel like these podcasts are cool. Like, this is probably a very normal conversation. Like, we catch up in New Zealand, I don't think it would be very different, you know, over— yeah, over a pint of beer, you know. Like, we just We're obsessed with it. Hopefully people have enjoyed that, and I think there's a ton of stuff in there. I just, yeah, I've been really wanting to chat with you because of, like, you know, if I had, if I had a visual, like, artist's impression of you, it would be you skiing with, like, all these different, you know, like, part of you would be Japanese, part of you would be French-Canadian, part of you would be Australian, part Do you know, like, um, it's just such a cool melding because you're not just looking for one, one source. You keep exploring, and I think it, it shows up in your skiing, man. It's a— your skiing is incredible, so keep it up. On that, if people this season keen to get skiing with you in Italy, what would a week— you know, now you can run your thing, you're not running it under SIA or under anyone else's thing. It's like your program. How do you— give us a quick rundown of like what you would do with people.

Uh, well, I mean, you know, firstly, I'd just really want to connect with people, get to know them, you know, make sure that we're all on the same page about what we want out of our skiing, um, and then try to, you know, inspire them through my ability to explain skiing and demonstrate skiing, um, and help people overcome whatever barriers they might have to, to reach that, that next level in, in performance. You know, I think that's something that I've got all throughout all of the stepping stones or doors that have been open for me, as, as we've talked about here, is, is just I have like an open mind to skiing, and it doesn't necessarily matter the way you look, but there are some sort of, you know, crucial points in the turn where your physics and biomechanics dictate what you need to be doing. And essentially, a week with me is understanding those truths So the physics of how the ski works and the biomechanics of how the body needs to align to, to handle force. And then once we understand those truths, we're on the same page about them, then it's just learning through experience and, and trying to sort of overcome hurdles of performance, you know.

Nice, man. I would, I would sign up if I could get over there easy. I'd like— after this, you've inspired me. I would, I would just be like, right, just give me the stepping stones, drills, all the key, you know, bits that helped you. And I'd be like soaking that up. Um, yeah, so, so cool. So thanks so much, Josh. If people want to get in touch and actually do that, where should they go?

Um, I mean, any social media— yeah, any social media platform. So send me a message on Instagram, um, comment on YouTube, or, um If you— we have a website, it's just www.theskicode.it. Theskicode.it. Great. Theskicode.it. Yeah. And then, yeah, same.

So Josh Duncan-Smith on Instagram.

Yeah, yeah, Josh Duncan-Smith on Instagram. Um, and yeah, and, and I'm sure people will find— just reach out. Yeah, hopefully. Yeah. And, and hopefully we'll get to ski together in New Zealand this summer. Hopefully. Yeah, New Zealand's open up a little bit more. I think, yeah, fingers crossed.

Yeah, we get to know the rest of the world can come to New Zealand too. Like, I mean, that's what you're probably saying, but yeah, I truly hope so too. It'd be cool to get the, the Rookie Academy happening full charge again. So thanks again, Josh.

Yeah, pleasure. Thank you.