Ted Ligety - Innovating Ski Technique And Adapting To Become World Champion

So like at that point, actually it already had like a very peculiar boot setup with head. Like I had a lot of cuts, I had a lot of carbon in the back, all these things, um, that had like made my setup before this rule change really good.

Yeah.

And I didn't want to mess with that too much because I liked how like the position it put me in, especially like I mean, this is another like side tangent. Course setting at the time was like really tight and turny, and so you need something that turned a lot. Nowadays, like back then it was like 24 meters from turn, GS turn to GS turn on average, and like pretty turny. Nowadays it's like 28 meters and dead straight. So like the sport's changed a lot as far as like course setting in that, like that time frame.

Yeah, okay.

Um, But so like you needed something that would like crank a tight radius and like you could hold across the fall line as well.

Yeah.

Um, and so like I just had a lot of like cuts in it.

Welcome back to another episode of the Big Picture Skiing Podcast. I'm Tom Gellie, and yes, that was Ted Ligety talking about the change in radius skis and length of skis back in 2012-2013. And that era was an era Ted Ligety dominated the sport in GS. He was a cut above everyone else. I can remember watching races where he would win by over 2 seconds, which is just outstanding. And so we kick off this interview with exactly what did he do, what changes did he make, because he was actually a voice against the change in the skis back then, yet he was the one that rose to the top. And what's really cool is just before this, I was skiing in the east with Manny Osborne-Parady, a Canadian Olympic skier and World Cup speed skier, and he actually posed the question to Ted. I said, what would you ask him? Anything you could ask Ted Ligety. And he asked him, what did you do to dominate the sport, and what did you do with training, equipment, physiology, technique to get there? So there's some really interesting insights now that Ted is retired, that he can talk about. But I think you'll find some really new insights, some things you've never heard from Ted before in this podcast. We get into some nice things like talking about skiing with children, so his son Jax, and what he's done to make that a fun and enjoyable experience. He talks about his recent partnership as an ambassador for the online digital ski coach Carve, which is really interesting. So he's now helping to develop training programs and drive that new technology, as well as the story about Shred, his brand of optics and protection wear for skiers. So I think there's some really cool stuff to bite into here, to listen from a man who has achieved like such high levels of ski racing and dominance, and if you're a ski nerd, you definitely know who Ted Ligety is and want to listen to every little ounce of information he's got. A final word from me, if you're a skier that loves learning, that loves getting better, loves improving, and you want a resource, I've built something, Big Picture Skiing, I have an app as well, where I produce videos, content, all sorts of information that is designed to help you improve and take ownership of your learning and really get to the, the highest potential of skiing that you can get to. So on there, if you want to check it out, I invite you to visit bigpictureskiing.com. There's a 7-day free trial, you can see what the videos are about. There's just been new content released in the last few days, lots of great feedback from the subscribers and members already about that. And I'd just like to say a big thank you to those of you that listen to the Big Picture Skiing podcast and all the Big Picture Skiing social media channels. Thank you, I'm really appreciative, and I will continue to bring out more interesting content to help you enjoy and love the sport we all love here, which is skiing. All right, let's get into the podcast.

I'm going to kick this off not with me, but I've been hanging out with Manny Osborne Parady the last few days.

Yeah.

And I said, what would you ask Ted Ligety if you, if you had to ask me a question? So I'm gonna, I'm gonna play his his question and then, uh, we'll kick it off there.

All right, Ted, so Tom and I have been chatting this week and he was excited that you're going to be on his podcast and whatnot. And I— he was saying, hey, listen, what, what kind of question would you ask Ted? And I actually, I knew right away what question I would ask you because I think it's, it's very cool. Um, I was just wondering, now that you're not, uh, you know, racing. I'm sure you can share this, but just how you got the confidence in yourself to, you know, change from Rossignol to Head, and then when that needed to happen, and then how did you just change your, your skiing approach and your tactics to getting to, uh, to getting proficient on the longer ski? You were really, you know, you were a huge voice of, of reason but negativity, uh, with the longer ski and the longer sidecut and how that maybe was not as advantageous to viewerships and all that stuff. But again, you then were able to like shut that off and go and relearn how to ski on a ski. And you, I mean, essentially you innovated a new style of skiing on, on how to get around the gates, which is like super cool to me. I have like tons of respect for that, to to say, hey, listen, you know, the style of skiing that works now isn't the style of skiing that needs to work in the future. And, and, you know, the payoff was huge. So, you know, kudos to you, my man.

Okay, yeah, there, there's a lot of pieces to that, that, uh, so if I can— so the first question, I guess, is like the switch from Rossi to Head, which like when I was on Rossi, I like won the GS title, and the next year I switched to Head. So like I'd done well, but I actually considered that season like a little bit of a failure because I didn't win Olympic medal in Vancouver. And I mean, honestly, it was like kind of an easy switch because I tested the Head skis, I liked them, I thought they like matched well with my skiing. And like in some senses, like sometimes like switching ski companies like for racers, like kind of like a kick in the butt, a motivator, like you're like, and it kind of reinvigorates you. And Head was in a place where they wanted to throw a lot of resources and were like, okay, you need a new boot? We can make you a new boot. You need a new what? They were just doing all that. And Rossi was in the inverse place where they're like, what you get is what you get right now. We're like in, they're in bunker mode. So I mean, for that sense, that was an easy decision, I think, in my, on my side of things. And then he was getting into like the 2012, 2013 like ski switch. So that came out the year before that. And initially they decided like, so originally like our skis, my like race skis when I won like the title the next year on Head 2010-11 were like my, the rule was 27 meters and the skis just had to be over 185, which nobody ever skied on a 185. Or a 27-meter radius. My skis were like a 29-meter radius in their 191s. And initially they first had the rule come out as like 40-meter radius. And like, that was a complete joke. And actually like Head was part of that like testing that FIS was mandating. They made a pair of those and they like, we brought a pair down to New Zealand that year. And like, I wish I looked as good as Phil Maier. Going down the course, you know. It was a, it was a complete joke. And that like made my blood boil and a lot of other people's blood boil when they actually did that. And I think like after they had like tested a couple times, they realized like, okay, this is like a really horrible decision. They took it to 35, which still at that point was like still old school skiing. And like, so I was like pissed, A, because I think like my personal view on equipment rules is there should be no rules. They're like, we should self-regulate ourselves. Like, I don't want to put a pair of equipment on myself that like maybe I maximize speed, but like I am in a dangerous position. Because like for me as an athlete, like my longevity and like ability to be consistent is more important than like maximum speed. So I think like as us athletes, like, I want a pair of skis that I can consistently make at the bottom of the course without like the skis forcing mistakes on me. And that's going to be the fastest but also the safest way. So like, leave it to me to regulate myself. And so that's, I guess, my viewpoint on that. So like having a ski rule come through that is like in a way perceived to be like designed against me because it's Tony Geiger, who is the head of the Austrian Ski Federation, kind of coming up with the rules and doing the testing. And then like none of the athletes had any input. Like that just pissed me off on a fundamental level. And I thought that it was going to be bad for the sport. I didn't think it was going to change any injuries, which is really the impetus for doing it. Like the reason there's injuries in skiing is that you have a 2-meter-long lever arm attached to your ski. Attached to your foot. Like, yeah, there's no way around that. Like, whether you make it straight or sidecut, like, it's still 2-meter long lever arm, like, attached to your leg that you don't want coming off in high-G situations. So therefore it doesn't come off always when you fall. And so they— that's really, I guess, the core issue of, like, safety there. So I didn't think, like, sidecut really had anything to do with it. Um, So I was pissed, and I like, so I obviously voiced my opinion, wrote some things and yada yada. But like, once it was done, I was like, head, let's start making prototypes. This is a year before it came in. Like, let's start making prototypes now, and I can start iterating because like, we're gonna have to get creative on ideas to make these things ski in a way that we can like keep a modern technique on. And there's like We're gonna have to start manipulating ways to do that.

Yeah, so what things can you then manipulate within what they've sort of said, these are the rules, to then make— what did you start doing to make it work?

I mean, first just like start iterations of like what the current ski was within the confines, and then like the first big thing that like nobody else was doing at that time was we just basically made like, we took a an idea out of like the powder skis and made a reverse camber tip. And like, I don't think anybody else— like, they didn't actually make that in the factory. We would just like go and then bend it after it came out. Um, and so that just like made the front of the ski like hook in.

Yeah.

Um, so that was like one piece. Um, with Head, we made like— so in reading the rules, like where they measure the sidecut we made like a fishtail ski. So like instead of being a 195, like if you were to truly do the sidecut, instead of being a 195, would have been like a 192. And then the sidecut would kind of like come— the tail of the ski was really narrow. And so where they would measure, where they measure would be narrower. And so the side— you'd manipulate the sidecut. And 2 weeks before it sold, and that was like my fastest ski, was that rule became illegal because they like saw that that was like happening. And so then we had to go back to like the second best pair of skis at that point, which like obviously was like working well for me at that point. And then another piece is like we made the boots way softer. Also, really, because like you just knew you need to like hyperflex everything in order to like be able to pull the radius and you need to like have the boots soft enough that you could like hold that position, like not have like the boot rebound you out of it. Yeah, so you like hold that position longer, um, to be able to keep the turn shape going to actually pull the ski around. Yeah.

Um, so with, with— so the boot thing, like I've listened to some, uh, podcasts where Bode talks about boots and he seems to be really into like, you know, like the direction it flexes and how that affects like the radius of the ski, or you flexing, it affects how the ski turns. So did Head give you the opportunity to, with the boot thing, did you have some influence over, I want, I want the boot to kind of work this way? And, and if so, can you, can you, can you help me understand how that works? I think I sort of get it, but I'm trying to get my head around, like, so when your ankle flexes and it's on edge, like, why would it be flexing one way and make it turn harder versus less?

Um, I mean, so like my personal boot at that time, I mean, I like— so I guess to break it down like in that sense, like, so if the boot like doesn't allow you to like flex to the inside, which would be like into the turn, or like that would make it more aggressive going inside, but like if it could still flex forward but push you out, that would give you like that support onto the inside but also would let you flex forward. Is like one way. I mean, for me, I like to be aligned like pretty straight. Yeah, like, um, I didn't like my boots like push me out one way when I started flexing. Yeah, I just kind of like liked my, like, the way my natural anatomy would work, just like flexing straight forward. And that would like, you know, the boot, like, if you like stand in a pair of boots, especially it's warm, warm in your like house, the boot smushes out on the sides. Yeah. And that's what like delivers the power. To the ski. And so like how you manipulate that is important, but also like how that like rebound comes out is important too, because that gives you power out of the turn. Yeah. Um, so like at that point actually it already had like a very peculiar boot setup with Head. Like I had a lot of cuts, I had a lot of carbon in the back, all these things, um, that like made my setup before this rule change really good. Yeah. And I didn't want to mess with that too much because I liked how, like, the position it put me in, especially, like, I mean, this is another, like, side tangent. Course setting at the time was, like, really tight and turny, and so you need something that turned a lot. Nowadays, like, back then it was, like, 24 meters from turn, GS turn to GS turn on average, and, like, pretty turny. Nowadays it's like 28 meters and dead straight. So like the sport's changed a lot as far as like course setting in that, like, that time frame.

Yeah.

Okay. Um, but so like you needed something that would like crank a tight radius and like you could hold across the fall line as well. Yeah. Um, and so like I just had a lot of like cuts in it and like it wasn't just like down cuts, it was back cuts.

And like, so the whole like the top of the boot, so you're saying actual like cuts? You took like a knife?

So the, the plastic, like a Dremel, and just like cut U-cuts down and then cut U-cuts back, but then like load the back of it with carbon to like keep the structural integrity of the boot while allowing the boot to kind of like fold.

So move more like an ankle joint. Yeah, it would move but still be rigid all around. So yeah, laterally and back and stuff.

It was still stiff. It was still stiff plastic. Yeah. Um, but it just had a lot of cuts so that you could like, you could actually like start cocking your angle without actually like having the boot just like zip, or the ski and the boot just like zip in. Yeah, to the top of the turn. Um, this is getting like very wonky obviously, but like, so, and like, so like in those iterations like throughout the winter before it actually came, the rules came about, I started figuring out a lot of these things. Um, and also like another piece I'd figured out was that like in ski racing, like in GS course, they're like generally like a minute to a minute 20 long. But like at that point it felt more like running, like at the bottom of the course, like my analogy for like what you feel like in the finish area would be like running a 400 with like a 50-pound backpack on. It's kind of like what— so you're like winded, you're like your legs are heavy and winded. But like after skiing on the 35-meter skis It felt like somebody told you to do max squats as many times as possible. So you didn't feel winded, but your legs were absolutely cooked. Like you had like just no more like muscle endurance or muscle strength left after like a fraction of the time because you're like so much more like manual usage of turning. Yeah. Like using like full, you're like your full muscle strength, like muscle these things around. Um, so like that gave me cues on like what I needed to like work on in the summertime.

Um, so you got stronger.

So I mean, so it's like if you're talking about like the physiology of like a ski racer, like if you're a cyclist, it's really simple. Like you do 90% A1 and you do a little bit of like threshold and you do a little bit of like super high intensity and that's like your workout scheme and like because you're trying to like build your efficiency. Ski racing, we don't like fit into one of those things. It's not like, it's not just strength, it's not just like endurance, it's not just anaerobic. It's like this weird mishmash of all those things, um, which I think makes it like complicated to like train for in a sense. But I also think it also makes it so there's not like one simple solution for it. So like one of the things I would like do was like, I do these like muscle endurance workouts. Like you can actually look it up on YouTube 'cause like NBC did film like one of those. And like it was basically, I do like 10 squats at 315. I do 20 deadlifts at, I think it was like 285. And then I would do a quad mill, which is like a rotating platform and one single leg for 45 seconds, other leg. Like leg extensions heavy for 30 reps, hand curls for 30 reps, um, like do like a slack line. And then what was like the other thing I would do in there? Something else. And then the end, I would— we had this eccentric leg press machine, so like you lift up one side, the hydraulic would lift up the other side, and then the way down you lifted both. And I do that for as many reps as I could. And that cooked you. Like, you were like breathing hard, kind of, but like your legs were gassed. We would do, uh, like centimeter, like leg girth measurements before and after. Yeah. And like, we'd— I'd get 3 centimeters bigger. Like, my legs would just be like so fucking pumped with blood. Like, you're just like— like everything was like puffy.

So like, so strongest you've ever been?

Yeah, really strong, but also like I could lift, you know, like near my max weight 5 minutes into a workout as the same as I could at the start of the workout. Wow. Which is like, if you talk to somebody who's like a trainer, there's not like— that doesn't necessarily like match with any like any other normal system, like system training. Like, yeah, so, um, that was like a big part of my, my training there. And, um, and honestly, like, those skis and the setup worked well for my skiing. Like, my skiing was like a loopier, more like consistent pressure, completed turn, versus a lot of people who were like— would kind of like skid 10% of the turn and like hit hard. Yeah. And like, I would like do like a swoopier turn, and those skis really punished you if you slid them. Like, you wouldn't get any rebound of the ski, and it almost got dead—

more dead.

Yeah, they're like— they didn't give you anything. Yeah, unless you like fully arced them, they didn't give it give you anything. And so like every single turn, if you like— obviously in World Cup you can't arc every turn, but if you can just arc 10% more of those turns and swoopier and getting the rebound, yeah, made all the difference. So it matched my technique better too.

So yeah, you actually— so, so if I'm following along here, right, boots, getting the boots sort of right and, uh, and allowing a bit more flex and not too like reboundy Yeah, uh, changing the skis, physical stuff, but your technique wasn't— you didn't really change that that much. Is that right?

In a way, like, I could just like amplify my strengths. Yes.

So that was your, your strength? Because we're talking with like, like Manny, he was saying that like, like he's, he's an excellent glider. Yeah, like in all the gliding sections, he was saying like he was always faster, not on the other bits. And so that was his strength. And he's saying when you know as a racer your strengths, like, you really have to exploit them hugely and you don't try and take on other new things because that's a risk because you almost don't know if you can pull that off in time, you know, if you're going to work on something new. So, so your technique was already like, yeah, yeah, you were partway there with it so you didn't have to.

Yeah, I would mostly agree with that. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool, cool. So do you, like, now free skiing, like, do you play, do you play with your boots much to this day?

Not really now because, like, I mean, I'm not trying to, like, race, and I, like, I'm really lucky, like, my foot fits in a small boot without much work. I mean, I barely ever punched or ground or anything like that, so, like, I was lucky in that sense. And like, now I have like, for a normal person would be considered an extremely stiff boot, for, for me is it considered extremely soft. And like, that works well. And like, the latest Head boot that I helped them develop a handful of years ago, I think is like fun and awesome. I mean, I have it like, I have a ton of lift now that I don't have to like be measured and, um, and things like that. But otherwise, like, I don't do anything too crazy.

Yeah, I did work— because you've got bare feet, I was looking at your feet because I'm the opposite. I've like quite a broad foot, really bony, and it's always been painful. Yeah, and I've noticed a lot of people that kind of do well, they do, they can just get in a ski boot like a lot of the time, a plug boot 92, and just ski like for the whole day and they're not, not in pain. So that was something that's probably like on your side from the beginning. Like, you're looking at your feet, you haven't got like really—

I don't have like, I don't really have any bone spurs. Yeah, no.

No, not even on your heel or anything?

No, I get like the little like navicular thing on the top sometimes, but that was about it.

Yeah, okay, cool, cool. Yeah, because I know I've heard in other, other interviews you've done, you, you liked tinkering. Are there any other things that you tinkered with that are not within the realms of, you know, cutting into the boot and adding carbon Did you tinker with like binding lifts, binding placement?

Uh, yeah, I mean, all those, every variable. Um, I mean, like one thing that like a lot of people would like make fun of me for was I did a lot of skiing with like one boot on each foot in training. And like, that's funny, like I talked to like some of the athletes who like when they're testing like in the middle of the season, they like need to be everything like perfect, like each foot's each foot. And like, I was like, I— you can go through twice as many setups if you just like zero in. Like, if you trust your feeling and you're like, okay, one— it doesn't work in slalom because slalom is like too tight. Like, I can't have two different boots in slalom unless they're like almost identical and feel the difference. But in like GS and speed, like, oh, like you can really feel the difference from foot to foot. Um, and so I did a lot of that. That was like kind of new, different, that like not very many people were willing to do. But like, in the time it took me to go through 10, 20 setups, you know, somebody else is going through 5. Um, so like, in that sense, like, I did go through like a lot of iterations and experimented. And then the same goes with like, um, I think like every person, like, I think has a place where they mount the bindings on the ski and ramp angle that like kind of works for them and it ends up working for them across the board. Like I found out, actually I learned this like my first year on the ski team. Like it was cool, like my coach at the time, Adam Chadbourne, that whole summer we didn't time against each other once, but we timed against ourselves. So like we wouldn't actually know if like we set up a slalom course, if it was 30 seconds long and I was 30 seconds on the dot. I didn't know that Andrew Wibrach was— what his time, if he was a 31 or 29. I just knew that I was— this run was plus 4 tenths my first run or minus 3 tenths my first run. And so yeah, he kept that secret from us all, all like summer long. So we only worked on our skiing versus ourselves. And then like, so within that, I like we tinkered a lot because you weren't under like the competitive constraints of like, oh, I gotta beat Andrew today because like I wanna like, you know, because I'm competitive, like that's just the nature of it. Yeah, like, oh, I need to like— I can go play with all these things. And so like that year I figured out like I always like my skis mounted, you know, 2 centimeters behind the recommended, and I always like, like kind of like my toe between— kind of depended on the skis or what was happening— 2 to 4 millimeters down on the toe. And that was—

you mean like, yeah, toe low? Toe low? Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Um, and so that kind of like spread itself out, um, throughout. I think on the 35-meter skis I went even, actually, because you sanded. Yeah, I was— yeah, I had on the bindings, just the same height on the toe as the heel. All right, because when you go up at the toe, it makes the front of the ski hook up more. And I just— I needed the ski to hook up more, so I was building, like, building it up to be more aggressive because it could be. Um, but same, like, principle. I was still way behind. Like, me versus Alexi Pintarot is like, I was 2 centimeters to 3 centimeters behind him all the time.

Yeah, wow, that's quite a difference.

Yeah, yeah, like even like my freeski skis now, I'm like, am I always mounting like 2-3 centimeters behind recommendation— recommended? Yeah, that's like just because I think I use my center of mass and like I go dump everything way forward through a part of the turn where if like the ski's mounted normally, it just like feels like it's like it just comes back to you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you can't open the turn up. Yeah, enough. Yeah, okay. Hey, like switching gears a bit, you've got a little boy. Yeah, Jax. You ski a lot with him?

Yeah, Jax and I ski quite a bit. He's 5. He actually broke his leg when I was skiing with him last year, so he didn't like— he missed like 6 weeks in the middle of season and started skiing actually again last spring. But yeah, skiing is fun with him. I mean, I— he was a ski school at Deer Valley as well, which is a lot more fun having them teach him, and then I go out and like reap the benefits of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, because he's then like psyched to like show off to me like what he's learned or like these little zones he goes with them. Um, because he's not that keen on like me being the leader in that sense. So that's fun. And then I have 2-year-old twin boys as well, which, um, one of them is like into playing pass the baby on skis. The other one doesn't want the skis clicked onto his feet.

Yeah, okay, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, and do you—

would you say there's anything like— because I got a— my boy, he's, he's into skiing, and I was really afraid that he would not like skiing, and I've tried to not push him and just bring him along, but if he doesn't want to go skiing, we, we don't go skiing. Is there anything you've learned that you would say pass on to like to other, you know, keen skiers that have kids? Like, words of wisdom? Have— has there been points where you've pushed and you're like Regrettable?

Yeah, I mean, ski school is a beautiful thing. Yeah, I think other people teach your kids is often, uh, you end up reaping the benefits. I mean, maybe that's like, I am stubborn and my son is stubborn, and that's maybe like he has that piece of him, a piece of me in him. So, um, that's like my recommendation. But yeah, I mean, like, at that age, like snacks and hot chocolate and yeah, and bribing to stay out is always, uh, is always a worthwhile thing, keeping them warm and all those things. So they're, you know, they don't get too pissed, you know. Yeah, inevitably there's going to be like kid breakdowns in the mountain, but yeah, absolutely.

And are you like, are you, because you've joined the Carv team, the digital ski coach, and so now you're kind of in this role of influencing people's skiing. Yeah, right, so through this app and you have this new mode where you can, it's like you've sort of developed a bit of a progression or suggested things to do. What have you learned from like now, like it's not really about racing, it's just general skiing? Yeah, can you, can you talk to that at all? Like, was it, um, are you kind of like, oh, it's hard, harder to teach people than I thought? Or, or yeah.

I'd say like I was, even as like a racer, I was generally very open about like sharing my like so-called secrets. Like I don't know if you look at some other racers out there, I don't know, Mikaela or Marcel or whatever, like they don't want anybody videoing them or watching them or telling anybody anything. And like I was like, if I figured it out at this point, then like if you're copying me, then I'm 3 steps ahead of you. So I might as well just like blurt it out there. And like, so I guess like I'd always like kind of shared what I learned. Like, I did that like New York Times thing and like also like post a lot of my video and like thoughts on that over the years. And I would coach every summer at Mount Hood too. I had a camp there. So like, I was kind of like in, in that sense. And then also like, I'm a technique nerd, I guess. And so like, I've thought about these things a lot over the years, and skiing and ski racing is very technical. I think like when I started first started working with Carv, it's like, okay, like take all these things I've known and learned and try to work on my skiing and then like adapt it to what we can measure within the unit, which actually like I was shocked by, like was more than I would have guessed. Yeah. Um, and also like I've always believed like that like skiing starts from like the ground up. Like people like get really hung up on like what people are doing with the upper body, and I'm like, no. Like everybody's like always would see me in GS like swinging on my arms. Like that's the timing thing, and it's like maybe a way to like manipulate a little bit more speed out of the turn, but it's not like— that's not a technique thing. Like everything else is like happening like waist down, or you know, yeah, nipples down basically. So I guess I was always in tune with that. And like the Carv unit like lends itself really well to like measure those things. And, you know, like a challenge for me always was like trying to like keep my shins parallel because I did have like a tendency, especially like in slalom, to like be over my outside ski, but then my inside ski would like be way out in front and not like not tipped over enough, like the edge similarity side of things. So like have something that I worked on that is like the most easily measured by this was this unit. Yeah, was, uh, by the Carv was really like validating, and it could do it like simply accurately. So, um, you know, when I first like started talking with those guys, I was like very skeptical. Like, I've seen a lot of these like ski gimmicks come and go over the years and been approached and talked to by a lot of them, and most of them are BS, or pretty much every single one I'd see to that point is was BS. And so When I gave it a try, I was actually like pleasantly surprised. Like, actually this thing is measuring things in my skiing that are real and like picking out things that like you think are important, that I think are important, but also like things I know in my own skiing that like my coach would know who's been with me forever, but I could see like in a particular day or a turn, but like the average person will never notice. The average even coach would never notice in my skiing. Yeah, um, where this could like pick it out, which I thought was, uh, was pretty unique.

Yeah, yeah, I had a similar experience when I first tried it. Um, I went down and then I was looking at the stuff and it's like, your fore and aft balance is, is really not very good, you're really back. I was like, no, I'm not, like, or I didn't feel it. Anyway, so I try, um, I was talking with a friend and he's like, you should try a gas pedal, like perhaps something's going on there. And anyway, so I put some business cards under the toes and did it and did another run. And, and as you just mentioned before, like with your binding with the longer skis, tip hooked up and I could feel my forefoot for the first time probably ever, like, or more than before. And so it just helped me to figure out, like, for my anatomy, and I needed a flatter sort of boot board. So it was just Without that, I don't know how long it would have gone before not ever really feeling the front of the ski have control. So it's, yeah, it's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. So how did the Carv camp go? That was just on recently.

Yeah, I just did a camp with Deer Valley, and we used the Carv as kind of the augment and use as a tool. And also, like, because they have the program within Carv, like, it's kind of like a way to— within the camp, we like worked on like the the same things that we work on within like the actual app in my like TED mode or training Olympian, whatever, whatever you want to call it. So like it is cool to be able to like use what we like can learn about somebody's skiing within Carv and coach them like on the hill personally, but also like it gives them like a path to like keep getting better because like 3-day camp, like there's only so much you can really do. Like you can change somebody's skiing and give them a lot of ideas, Um, but this, like, they can then go measure the ideas, and then with, like, because I have a program in there, like, they can also kind of follow the same kind of criteria. Yeah. Um, so that was fun. Like, everybody's really psyched on it, and I think, you know, like, a lot of people, like, skiing did actually make a big jump. Yeah, cool. So it was, it was, it was fun in that regard.

Yeah, yeah, nice. And, like, totally different topic But you, when did you start your goggle and protection company? Was that, that was while you were still—

Yeah.

So, and was that your idea or did someone approach you? Like, how did that all, how did that all start?

Uh, I mean, so like originally, like, I was my first year on the ski team, um, I was at a FIS race in Italy and this guy in the race had these like carbon fiber shin guards, um, that looked really cool. And at the time, like, all the shin guards are just cheap plastic looking things. And a team man and I just like, hey, where'd you get those things? What are those? He's like, oh, I made them in my garage. And he is an engineer working for a carbon fiber company and just made these cool shin guards in his garage. And we're like, hey, can you make us some? He's like, yeah. And so that's how I originally met Carlo, who's my partner in Shred. And so he started prototyping protective gear. Carbon fiber shin guards and then like carbon fiber arm guards, which they're like the first actual arm guards like worn outside of the suit. Um, and so we just kind of developed this like friendship there. And then after the 2006 Olympics, I didn't want to be caught dead skiing with a Uvex, a Brico, a Carrera, or any of that stuff outside of a race course. Like, and that was like really the only options, but also like if I raced with a Smith or an Oakley, it just wasn't going to work because like the frames weren't big enough to be able to like have a big enough field of view to see in gates, which honestly for like the normal consumer, whether it's like somebody going to sideswipe you or skiing trees or whatever, like the product just didn't like, wasn't good. So I was like, there needs to be, I need something that I think is cool, but also like I need something that helps me in my own racing. And I'm, And because I was like a tinkerer and I love like the product side of things, that was like the initial idea for Shred. And Shred was like a nickname a coach of mine gave me when I was like 10 years old, Ted Shred. And so Carlo was actually out in Park City staying at my house, we went mountain bike riding, and I was telling him about this. He's like, actually, I know where a goggle manufacturer is. Let's go see if like they can make something for us or what they have and what we can do. 6 months later we started it and started getting product out. What year was that? That was like late fall or late November 2006, and then early 2007 when we first started selling them. Okay. And so yeah, we've come a long ways. I mean, nowadays, like, he ended up going to like MIT for business school, and so we work with MIT Sports Lab for a lot of like our projects, like our lens technology. And like, so for being like one of the only, or probably like the only, innovative like independent company out there, like having, you know, patents and technologies that like not even the biggest companies out there have or can perform, is pretty cool to be like on that cutting edge. And I mean, we always like think of it like, okay, like I want to solve a problem that like I had, or like, yeah, better my performance. Like, I don't know, an example would be like flat light. Like in racing, like you're skiing flat light and then the sun pokes out, that's like 2 seconds. So if you can like create a lens that is a little bit better in flat light, instantly like you can shave a half second off your time. So that's like a big thing we worked out. Like now we've worked with MIT for a few years and creating like our latest lenses that like Can you kind of, can you kind of speak into maybe simple language how that's like, what things factor into that? It's, uh, like lens tint and like polarized filters.

So like, what can you make it better than the human eye? You can help the human eyes.

Yeah, because you can add— so like, there's always like— so we have like a polarizing filter. So like, there's always— but if you do full polarized, you don't catch all like the glare. So you need some glare off the snow because snow is reflective. Yeah, even when it's like full whiteout, you need to like filter out a little bit of that because then they actually see— you can like pick up a little bit of the shadows and definition. And then the right tint can actually like bring out some of that, um, that contrast as well. Um, the way we do that is like in a Lightroom where we like have snow simulated and simulate flat light Yeah. And then we do like human and AI testing and then we map it out and then that way we can like do hundreds of iterations really, really fast. Yeah. Wow. And that's how we like came out with our latest contrast boosting lens 2.0. That's like wild. So to give you an example on that, like athletes don't generally like switching equipment up, especially like something like goggles in the middle of the season.. And we launched that right before the Olympics and 90% of the Olympics was full sun. So it didn't really matter. Yeah. And the guys used it, but then on the men's GS day, it was nasty. Like snowed a ton. And, um, one of our athletes, uh, Mathieu Fèvre, he was, you know, getting 5th to 20th every race and like it was nasty out and he got 3rd and he used that lens when normally he was not like somebody who would've just switched it up on a race day. And he did and had his best race of the year. And a couple of our athletes in that race also had the best days of their year. And not to credit that all, but that definitely I think had a slight play in that. The small percentages all add up, right? We always try to not think about the marketing gimmick, but actually what's gonna help the best person in the world. My wife like is not going to go skiing when it's flat light. She is in the lodge. Yeah, um, she's not, she's not keen to go out there. And so if that keeps her out on the slopes, then it's a win that helps anybody.

So can she rip a turn?

She's a good skier. She grew up like playing soccer and then skied for fun here and there, and then she was a snowboarder when I first met her, and now she's a skier again. So I, I don't coach her. I don't think she'd appreciate that, but she, she can ski anywhere, and she She skis fast, she skis faster than I'm really comfortable with, I guess, a lot of the time.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And she, like, she gets out like a few times a week and—

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool. It's hard not to when you live in Park City.

I know, yeah, and this season has been awesome too. Yeah, so is your, your season now, what does it sort of look like? Do you get to still spend a lot of time at home and, or are you off around different places a lot?

I mean, now, I mean, versus when I was racing, I'm home a ton more, obviously. Um, and this year, yeah, around quite a bit. I mean, I still like have to travel a little bit here and there for, um, either business, shred, or like some various like stuff with sponsors or, or whatnot. Um, so still some travel but not anything too crazy. Like, it's generally like 5-day trips versus before was weeks and months trips.

Yeah, yeah, cool. Hey, so I've got like maybe one, maybe one, two more questions, but I've asked a lot of people, uh, like racers, what their favorite drills were, like effective drills, like, and probably thinking like more back when you were developing, like as a junior. Like Schloepi was like one ski, and, uh, and I don't know if you know Jimmy Krupka, Yeah, he was like, yeah, one ski for sure, and like that up and over drill. And yeah, so is there— do you, do you have some like, like one or two drills you thought really were influential in helping you like really get like foundational technique? Not like what, you know, arcing the turn, but just like good solid ski technique.

So I actually have like really strong opinions on drills. Like, yeah, I find it really annoying when people are doing drills, they're not on an arc. So like for me, I hated drills growing up, and if it wasn't a drill that wasn't arcing, I thought it was pointless. Because like if you're doing a drill, you need to see what it actually influences in the arc. And so like I see on the World Cup, like all these guys have these little drill rituals and they're just like sliding these turns and doing these weird arm movements. It's like you don't even know how that's influencing your ski. Like do it on an arc and then you know how it's influencing the ski. So that's like one piece on drills. So drill I do love is like one-ski skiing. Like, I do love that, especially on like a flatter terrain. And, um, not only for just like the ability to like have the balance and like switch the edge, but also it just like helps you get the feeling of like locking your hip in and also like strengthens like glute med and glute and all those areas that like— so I think that's like a great fitness drill, but also like a drill in general. Another one I like is like javelin turns, also like on kind of flat where you can arc. So that also does the same thing, like feels like you lock your hip in.

Yeah, that, like that, that what you say there, that lock the hip in thing, I know what you mean. Yeah. And would you probably say that the people that came on your camp, like, you would have really loved to just been able to have like an injection needle that just gave them that feeling because a lot of them don't have it.

It's like, I mean, it's just like staying strong over your outside foot in like a manner that like you're stable in, you know. Like a lot of people will like try to push the outside ski out to like get around, um, or doing all these motions. It's just like, it's really just like resisting the force and like doing, you know, one ski or javelins.

Like, why do you think the javelin? Why do you reckon the javelin?

Because, you know, so if people don't— I like how like it like bringing the tip over actually like brings you— like it twists your hips just enough that you're actually like loaded even better over the outside ski.

Um, so it kind of teaches the part where you've got to like have this little rotation.

Yeah, just like a slight like, yeah, counterbalance of it.

Like, yeah, not much, right? But just, yeah. And so you get that feeling from that. Yeah, from that drill.

But yeah, I, I like your, uh, And then on flats, like railroad tracks, just trying to keep the shins perfectly parallel and whether you reach down and you're inside hand your inside knee, trying to push your knee against the hand is a good one. But yeah, overall, there's some other more drills that I like, but generally I'm not a big drill fan.

Yeah, so yeah, like you said, when you're In the sort of development stages, you would get annoyed, like, oh God, like wedge turns.

Like, why am I doing wedge turns right now?

Like, why do you want me to slide a turn?

Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm trying to learn how to arc here, not— and I want to feel like what manipulating my body feels like on an arc. Yeah, yeah. Not just like smashing through the boot on a slided ski. Slid—

slid ski. Yeah, yeah. It was funny, like, because, uh, Manny, after he broke his leg We were talking, he went and did— after it's like, what am I going to do? And he did his levels in Canada in ski instructing, and like he found it really difficult. I mean, you know, relatively speaking to— he was like, this is like the first time I slid a turn in like 10 years. Yeah. And like he's being made to do all that. Um, so yeah, but I get your point about like if what you're trying to do is really be fast on an arc, like do everything that makes just that. So yeah, yeah, cool, awesome. Well, thanks for your time, Ted. Yeah, really appreciate your, uh, your insights and, uh, yeah, sharing your knowledge with us.

Yeah, thank you. No problem.

Awesome, sweet.

That's it.

Cool, thank you. Easy.