The Importance Of Skiing Mentors - Jason Simpson CSIA Level 4 Course Conductor

Have you ever skied with a Canadian Level 4 ski instructor, or a Canadian Level 4 course conductor examiner for that matter? These ski teachers are considered some of the best in the industry around the world, and for good reason. There is an extremely difficult process they must go through in order to attain this level of certification. Today on the Big Picture Skiing podcast, you're going to meet one of them, Jason Simpson, and in this podcast we talk about his journey from Beginner Instructor all the way up to Level 4 Course Conductor. There's some great takeaways, as well as you're going to hear that Jason and I are teaming up and going to be working together with the Big Picture Skiing Online Academy. I hope you enjoy this latest episode of the Big Picture Skiing Podcast and get some great takeaways to help advance your own skiing. Jason, I wanted to ask you, what is the earliest memory you have of a skiing breakthrough?

My earliest memory of a skiing breakthrough probably took place during my first week with Club Ski as an instructor. Club Ski was a 3-ski-week program based in Banff where you get to ski Lake Louise, Sunshine, and Norquay every week. And the director at the time was Paul Kunius, and we were out skiing together, and he said to me, Jason, like, you you're way too overflexed in your ankle. And I had just come out of ski racing and I went, no, I'm supposed to be forward, you know, and, uh, sit here, try this position. And he asked me to, you know, straighten my ankle a little bit, take some pressure off the front of the boot and make some turns. And I was literally like, oh my gosh, that is terrible. I feel terrible, Paul. Like, you know, there's no way that's the right way to stand. He goes, dude, looks really good. And your skis are acting better in the snow. So he, uh, had a video camera with him, believe it or not. And he, I mean, I think it might have been shoulder mounted at the time, but he, he videoed me. And, uh, and later that, that evening we got back and I reviewed the video and I was so stoked with how I looked. I was like, wow, like it feels bad, but I'm skiing well. So I, I need to keep going with this. And, uh, so that was one of the first skiing breakthroughs was just to release my my ankle, open it up, you know, from fore and aft so that I could move better laterally. And that was probably one of the first breakthroughs that I can remember.

Isn't that crazy? That— yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean, you, you're done, done racing, and then you're given this thing, and then feels horrible. And do you think if he'd never videoed that and it was a one-off— so it's like you had this guy for one day, he said open your ankle, you do it, feels terrible, you never videoed it. You would probably not continue with that the next day, would you?

Absolutely not. I would have gone back to what felt comfortable, where I felt confident, what I'd been doing for, you know, a decade. Uh, yeah, I would have continued to stay there. And without the video— and it's interesting because I hadn't thought about it, you know, prior to this conversation— that, wow, that was the impact of video. It brought the point home and made me a believer, and I need to continue to go down this path.

Yeah, absolutely. So, so you started out before ski instructing, you did do ski racing?

I sure did, yeah. Um, I was a bit late to skiing, I would say, for, you know, most, you know, lifelong skiers. I was in grade 6, I would have been, you know, 11 or 12 years old, and it was a school trip, uh, went out with the class to learn how to ski. I was a hockey player, so I had good— I was a really good skater, not great with the puck, but I could definitely skate. So I had the, I had a good sort of proprioception, good feeling around sliding and angles and that type of stuff. And skiing just hooked me like so deep the first time. You know, I could think of nothing else after skiing. And so my parents recognized that. So very quickly signed me up for Nancy Greene, the ski program the next year. And that was it. I was off to the races and skiing. And ski racing shaped my life, even though I came from Nova Scotia and small ski hills, you know, 800 vertical feet type of stuff. The— it just, it became my life. I couldn't think of anything else, you know, year-round. Um, there's something about the aesthetic and feel of skiing that just took me over.

Okay, and so then you decide you're going to teach skiing. Where do you go and do that first?

Well, the skier I grew up at is called, uh, Ski Wentworth in central Nova Scotia. Um, and the way that happened, uh, it's a funny story. Another, uh, I wouldn't say a mentor, but certainly a collaborator was a guy named Ben Sarette, and we ski raced together. And Ben ended up taking off to Ontario to be a ski instructor when I left for university. And, uh, a couple years later, Ben comes back and he's a Level 3 ski instructor already, and I knew what that was. Dude, really? You have your level 3? And he came back to teach at our home hill in Nova Scotia, and I had taken a year off university. And, uh, he says, uh, he says to me, you should come out and teach skiing this winter out Wentworth. And I'm like, that's a full-time job? Like, I can do that sort of thing? And he said, absolutely. So I, uh, that year I took my level 1. That would have been in 1989. Got my level 1 and started as a full-time ski instructor at a 800 vertical foot ski area in Nova Scotia, and certainly a day area, not a resort, a day skier on the side of the highway. And, uh, but we rented a house out on the— at the hill, and, and I just got absorbed in it. And, uh, the neat part of that story, and this is what really affected me, and if we can think of mentors, um, that winter, uh, we had a Level 2 and a Level 3 course, like super course, at Wentworth So of the, the Maritime provinces, all the ski instructors from the, you know, probably 10 areas within the Maritimes, so, you know, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland, all came to Wentworth, to my home hill. And because there was no Level 4s in all of any of those provinces, all the— I'd never seen one ski, didn't know what a Level 4 was. These guys all flew in from Ontario and Quebec, and I saw my, like, a Level 4 guy ski and teach for the first time. And I was blown away. I'm like, these guys were born with skis on their feet. These guys and girls, like, they know so much about skiing. They speak so eloquently about it. They ski so well. They just made mincemeat of what our hardest trail, you know, the Headwall. And so that was a really influential time. So I took my Level 2 during the super course. There was 8 groups of Level 2, 8 groups of Level 3 all at once. So it was this amazing week of ski energy in this little valley, you know, in this very rural little spot. And that's what really supercharged me. I'm like, I wonder if I can be that someday. And, uh, I went back, finished my university degree, and promptly moved to Lake Louise and Banff, uh, to pursue that dream.

And is that where you met Paul?

In Banff, yes. So yeah, I met— when I arrived in Banff. And so Ben, Ben came as well. A few of us moved out. So Ben Srett also came out and I had a job with the Lake Louise Ski School, but it didn't work out that way. I ended up working in the ski shop initially. Had heard that through the grapevine and being a young impressionable guy that you don't wanna be in the ski school, man, those guys aren't cool. Like this is way cooler. I'm like, really? 'Cause teaching skiing back east was a blast, but all right. And then Ben was working with Lake Louise Ski School. He got a job with Club Ski and then he comes in and tells me about this, dude, I'm skiing at all 3 ski areas every week. They pay us to go for dinner. So I'm getting fed, I'm getting tipped. I'm like, what? You need to get me a job. And so I'm in the ski shop one day, and this is honestly how it happened. I'm working in the ski shop at the base of Lake Louise, and Paul comes in the door and asks, is there a Jason Simpson working here? And yes, that's me. And do you have a ski break? I said, yes, I do. I have a ski break at 1:30. He goes, okay, I'll meet you back here. Let's go for a ski. And, uh, he did. And he goes, you know, basically, you seem like a reasonable guy. What are you doing tomorrow? I said, why, the day off? Because we're going to Sunshine. Why don't you come with us and see what we do? So I jumped in the, the Club Ski van that day and went into Banff, slept on someone's floor, and, uh, you know, did my first day with them. And they're like, you're in, when can you start? And, uh, and that was the next 4 years of my life with Club Ski were so fundamental to shaping who I became as a ski instructor and as a ski school director. And everything that I learned, you know, from Paul and those that I skied with in Elk— I'll just to make this long story very short, that spring, you know, that very first spring, got my Level 3, and then the next year came back and got my Level 4 first go. And so now I'm 22 years old, I've got my Level 4, And I honestly didn't know what happened to me, and I don't think I was even ready. If I look back at who I was, I might have been a bit of a parrot. I was really good at repeating the things that I heard, whether I understood them or not. Maybe I was a bit of an actor. Like, I had to grow into what— you know, I was very young, and I had to grow into being a Level 4 over time. So that's how it all—

interesting.

Yeah.

So then, so would you say in that, in, in that sort of period, the people you looked at for inspiration and, and, and that helped you with your skiing, was that Paul? Was that— was there anyone else? And what did they, what did they teach you that you still hold on to today, you would say?

Oh yeah, so much and so many sort of collaborators or, or inspirational figures along the way. Man, what a time. Paul was certainly a big one because he really helped guide us. Like, within the club ski was a very small group. There was only like 12 of us at the time, and we traveled together every day in a van to and from these ski resorts. We tuned our skis together, we hung out together, and everybody was excited to train, and everybody had a goal. And it was one of the first times I'd been introduced to the concept of morning session. Like, we were skiing together every day, and then Paul did really cool off-snow training with us. And like, you know, drew the turn and talked about everything that happened within that and really laid it out for us so that we were ready when we went to the Level 4 course. And even that was not a planned thing. Like, it happened earlier than I had anticipated because I knew that nobody passes the first time. A lot of my, you know, my training partners hadn't and— but they were all going to the course. I remember just saying, I'm gonna go too! Heck with it! Like, I ski with you guys every day. I'll come and just see what this is all about, and I'll learn. Like, it'll be good for my professional development. So off I went to Silver Star to take the course, right? Because, you know, it was the course in January and the exams in spring, and I felt a little out of place. You know, I didn't have the right ski clothes, I didn't have the right ski boots, I didn't have— like, I was a little bit out in left field, you know. I was kind of more backcountry skiing than looking like a ski instructor. And sort of that dirtbag vibe maybe, you know, but I was really impressed with what I saw. And one of the biggest changes that occurred at that course, another really influential person was Cam Watson. And so I did a pedagogy day with Cam, and towards the end of the day he said, Jason, I think you've got some alignment issues. And I'm like, what do you— what's alignment? And he goes, well, just the way your boots are affecting the way you stand. I think it's getting in the way of ability. Why don't you come by? You know, I'm doing some stuff at the, you know, in this, in the lobby later tonight. So went to meet Cam and he had a bunch of, he had these like this gizmo to check your alignment, to check your canting, a little more rudimentary maybe. But he determined that I was 5 degrees out on my left and 3 degrees out on my right. Like I need to be canted inwards.. And, uh, so that was a really influential time where I had, I'd never heard of alignment before. Um, and it, and it became, to this day, it's still something that I really focus on with the people I work with is how the equipment is affecting them. Are they in the right boots and have they done the work that they can with those boots to get them as close to their morphology or their own alignment, uh, as possible? So anyways, Cam, we made a plan to do this and I, I ordered a bunch of stuff from him, and I got these plates came in the mail in a big envelope starting from 1 degree all the way up to 3.5, chunks of plastic that go into your bindings, right? And he said, don't do it all at once, you know, spend a week at each degree and then change them out. So the only issue with that was, you know, I could only scan my skis, I could only ski on the edge that the bindings were set up to, and we even just, you know, struggled to find screws to get through the thick side of that that plate down into the ski again. But that alignment, you know, that what I learned changed me greatly. Like, I was really able to then ski and move better, you know. And over the years, my understanding of alignment has changed a lot, and whether or not you require that kind of, you know, canting and planing of boots, you know, which you can now do, you know, instead of doing externally, you like under the binding, you can do it with the boot. You know, I've skied in periods without alignment since, like where like no canting, like no, no planing of the boots. And I've skied with it and it's sort of dependent on the boot and how I felt on it. And I've gone from as low as a half a degree, you know, like back then it was 3.5 he had me at, you know, half a degree to zero. And it just depends. There's lots of factors that,, you know, are built into that. But, and then skiing with you, I've learned, you know, that perhaps understanding how your body works and just learning to make sure the boot is not in your way, but you may not need to plane it, you might not need a footbed, you just need to understand how your body works and how to access it appropriately.

Yeah, you've got some, some new boots just sitting next to you there.

Oh, I do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're in the box.

This is this season's project. Brand new pair of Podium boots. And yeah, yeah, man, these are awesome. So looking forward to doing these with the big picture kind of, uh, um, approach to setting up. You got it. Yeah, you already kind of blew my mind last year.

Yeah, yeah, I remember sitting, sitting in long johns and, and we sort of traded boots. Like I said, just put the shell on and, and I put yours on and Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting because I think we determine, like, you have sort of bowed tippies.

I'm very bow-legged.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, down there. So yeah, and I have some different thoughts now around not pushing the knee over, you know, from that position. So yeah, anyway, it's going to be very, very interesting.

It's going to be exciting.

Yeah, yeah. So you, so you do the course in Silver Star. Where was the exam? That you aced, which is also Silver Star. Yeah. So what was— I gotta ask, what was your— if people don't know, Silver Star has some, has some mean black, double black bump runs.

Like, they're—

oh man, they're, they're gnarly. And so what, what was your level 4 bump run on at Silver Star?

I can't remember the, the name of the run, and I'm shocked that I don't, but it was on the backside. But what I do remember is it was unbelievably warm and raining and it was so slushy, like it was like, you know, 12 inches of slush and it was sketchy. So there was, I think there was 80 of us there and we had to all side slip, like spread out and side slip it twice to push out all the slush and try to make it a bit safe. And it was a really strange day. And I actually, I hip checked, like had a bit of a crash on my run. And, uh, still somehow pulled it off. But, uh, I remember going, oh, blew that, you know, but still in the end had enough to get through. Um, yeah, that was— so yeah, it was a gnarly bump run.

Wow, that's crazy. I can't believe you had rain at Silver. I mean, yeah, I guess it does, it does happen.

But yeah, it was late spring and, uh, you know, it was, it was challenging. We had every condition that week. And I— in my teaching day too, my second teaching day was a wet sprinkly rainy day, you know, it was so seeping into your gloves, and I was the last guy to go. And, you know, it was not— it wasn't ideal, that's for sure.

Do you remember what you had to teach?

Uh, yeah, I was teaching, uh, advanced parallel, like big turns, and I did a beginner pedagogy the day before. Yeah, nice.

Yeah, so, uh, so then after— so, so, so after that, who would you say helped you Because you, yeah, like you said, you sort of, whoa, got this Level 4. Yeah. Who do you felt helped you in that, in the next period, really sort of evolve? And maybe it wasn't your actual skiing, maybe it was your teaching, or—

Right. Well, then, because, you know, you kind of come through the, you know, you get your Level 4 and you kind of step, you know, you're kind of get to see behind the curtain. And now you, you know, the next year you get to go to the Level 4 training, and now you're with the guys that examined you. Now you're kind of, I mean, you're rookie, but you're in that club. And then I got to ski with someone like, well, with Cam Watson. Norm Kreutz was the boss at the time. So Norm is, you know, leading the charge. Then he was the Western Course director. Guy Paulson, Steve Smart, Dave Hay, man, just like the stars of the day. Doug Perry, um, just the guys that I looked up to that I met through that process. Now I'm skiing with them and, and learning from them. You know, you're, uh, I don't know what I'm trying to say there, but you're— they're your peers all of a sudden. Um, very different. So I learned a lot. Yeah, very different. And, and the respect that, hey, you've— you've— we've been where you've been. We're excited you're here and we're going to help you along. And, uh, you know, one of the guys was Dave Hay, was very influential. I met him during the Level 3 the year before, and he, he and I really clicked, and I learned a lot from him. And I, and I skied with him outside of, like, as part of my training, I, I skied with Dave Hay. It's just his approach really clicked with me, the way he spoke about skiing. Not everybody, you know, it's necessarily, you know, because when you're finding a mentor, that per— who maybe that person may click with somebody and they absolutely understand that person and someone else says, I don't quite understand that approach. And, you know, we, because we all learn a little bit differently and we all hear words a little bit differently and we interpret movements a little bit differently. But, uh, I really like the way Dave skied and his passion for, uh, his approach is very feeling-based and, uh, it really worked with me. Um, Guy Paulsen was the consummate professional, the way his eloquence with language and the way he explained things. I wanted that rhythm of speaking at the time. Doug Perry just was this exciting skier, man. I think we all kind of wanted to be Doug. He kind of had a man crush on him. He just ripped, Steve Smart ripped, and then Norm is just the godfather. Like, and it still is to this day, still trying to make a turn like Norm once in a while.

So what were you— what do you think technically then at that point you were trying to improve in your skiing? Were you trying to do things faster? Were you trying to get more rebound? What would— do you remember back then anything you were kind of like, oh yeah, I see that in Doug's skiing, I'm gonna try and work on that?

Skiing was, you know, it was in a way it was different because, you know, we were all on, you know, I was on 207, you know, like the skis behind you right now. So we, we were really trying to manage separation, show a lot of it, you know, like counter rotation was so, you know, important at the time. And then trying to, like, it was at the advent of shape skis started, it was just sort of dawning. And so then I was trying to carve an entire turn? Like, could you actually do that? Because we weren't, you know, we were sliding the top and picking up some clean edges through the, you know, after the fall in for a second. And, uh, I don't think we were as forensic looking at tracks and what was happening initially. And then over the next, you know, 3 to 4 years, shape skis start to show up, and then you're looking at the tracks differently. You're watching guys on, uh, carving snowboards and what they're doing. And like, how are they doing that? Like they are leaving this clean arc in the snow. There is no slide at all. How is that happening? So there was a lot of focus on angulation and hip, trying to get the hips inside, really get the knees inside. Um, but yet we were still on a ski that wasn't necessarily capable of pulling that off. So it was, uh, it was an interesting kind of time. So technically, um, it was for me, it was very stance-based. It still was. Trying to be over my feet like that. My center of mass and my, uh, my base of support were always aligned, um, so that I could move, you know, freely. And so that was a big focus for sure. But we were— I think it was a time of almost more of a stylistic way of skiing than it was a performance or functional way of skiing. There was a look to it still, you know. Yeah. And, uh, we— you held your hands the way you pole planted and all that was kind of important. You know, instead of the performance aspect, you know. Yeah, it was more dance-like, you know.

Yeah, but you know what, I like— I, I personally really like that. I look back at some of those people you've mentioned and the way they ski still stands out because I guess now you mentioned it, like, that was such an important thing. They would have been telling each other, your hands, I don't like where they're at, like, you need them lower or higher. That doesn't really get like approach these days. And I actually think there's, you know, I know there is the, you know, function equals form sort of, uh, thing, but, you know, I think that it can reverse the other way. And there are, there are things about it, because after you like nail a turn, like, you know, especially look at your video, you go, yeah, okay, that felt pretty good, but I look at that, I don't really like what I'm looking like there. And, and then other people watching too, like we sort of have just been talking about, certain people your eye is drawn to, you go, wow, like they have just such composure over every joint and position of their body, and they just look really in tune with things. So I personally, personally like that. And it actually brings up a question around training that era versus sort of now. Do you feel, if you look back now, you probably haven't thought of— for— thought about for a while, do you see, was, was the way people trained back then different to now in terms of, was it more kind of like harder? Were there more drills?

Were you—

what people— do people really have a stronger kind of ethic of like, get out there, and if you're not seen doing your your side slips and your, you know, different drills, like you're not really going to make it.

Yeah, it was definitely a little bit more like practicing your scales on the piano, like warming up. There was a lot of side slipping, a lot of bricolage, a lot of space, you know, a lot of separation type drills, you know what I mean? You really sense the upper and lower body being separated and then trying to understand, like maintain your alignment on something that was sliding away from you all the time. 'Cause you didn't have the grip and you didn't have, you know, the sort of the momentum or the force of the arc 'cause the ski didn't hold and the ski was long and it was skinny. So you moved with that ski more like on the front of the ski to start and on the back of the ski to finish. 'Cause like, I mean, look at that thing behind you, like you needed to get out there on it. And your slalom ski and your GS ski were basically the same ski. They were just a different length. Yeah, so it was very drill-based for sure, and you get really good at sliding. Like, I— another guy that had, you know, an impact on my skiing, um, oh my gosh, and now my mind is slipping.

Um, Andre Schwartz. Andre Schwartz. Okay, so yeah, so Andre Schwartz.

Yes. So, uh, not that I, you know, would I consider him a mentor or someone I really knew really well, no, but when I was the assistant director at at Lake Louise often had the chance to get out and sneak around and ski. And so one day I was running gates with the Lake Louise Ski Club and André, who often was out, you know, skiing around and watching everybody, he was watching myself and some ski racers running gates. And he kind of comes over and goes, hey, you, you, and you, come with me. And like, okay, like, because Schwarzy, like, he's the godfather, man. Like, Norm learned from André, right? And he wrote Moving in Motion. And so anyways, he takes us out side-slipping. And I was at that time trying to carve, and I was kind of jettisoning the concept of side slipping and thought, I don't need to do that anymore. And he had such an effect on my skiing over the next hour. I couldn't believe it. Like, I was skiing so much better, you know. And then he said, okay guys, back in the gates with what you know, and just on it, on the line, like so different. And the next day I remember taking my guy, like this, like, with ski school out for, you know, whoever showed up that morning for session to try to repeat what I just heard and I couldn't because I was so blown away and they were all tuning out and going, "Oh, we're sideslipping!" and you know, but he had such an effect on me in that short time and any other time I did run into him, Andre still— sideslipping is his belief that you have to be able to stand on something that is moving away from you. That you need to understand how to catch up with that and stay with it instead of feeling the grip that it gives you. Like, it's almost like you're cheating. Like, when you have something to stand against, it's more like walking. Like, it's more like being on pavement and having traction. But skiing is always moving, and keeping the center of mass moving with the feet is such an art, you know, to understand that.

And did you see that? That's my— did you see that's the latest video I put out? Uh-huh. Yeah, funny time, because that was what we were also— when we skied together, we were on that.

It just—

we were maybe just talking about the sensation of side slipping, but not just down the fall line. But I totally agree, and that, that's what I think is visible in that era of, of people, you know, the Norm Kreutz and the Pauls and all the— those guys, and, and, um is their ability to just be so comfortable, know exactly where their balance is on a ski that is not going where the tip is going. Yeah, but it's everywhere in between that. And if they've got a complete control over all directions of that, of that skin sliding.

Yeah.

And then when to put it on, put it on the edge. And that's totally lost. You're right. So yeah, so, and people listening like, oh, side slipping, like, you know, use that to get to a cool double black run or something on a ridge, like down past this bit or through these trees. But it's, it's not. And yeah, I think drills— yeah, drills hold so much gold inside them if you go, go more deep into it.

Yeah, I mean, the last 25 years of shape skis have made us so focused on carving that you, you sort of forget the underlying, like, the fundamentals that allow that performance to occur. And it is understanding how to, you know, how to slide, you know, and, um, and not just grip. And I, you know, um, like another guy I like, uh, I ski with is Drew Bragg, who's, you know, Drew is— we won't talk, you know, he's a little bit older than I am and he's part of that era. And again, skis with such grace and flow, you know, and he's a, he's a small wiry guy that skis completely through balance, like through the alignment of his skeleton. And it's what he learned, I swear, from those days on long skis, side-slipping around with the likes of André Schwartz. His skiing is still so— it's so elegant, it's so dance-like, yet has athleticism, you know what I mean? Like, I don't think when you see grace, like say a ballet dancer, I don't think people understand the amount of power and strength that is in those dancers. It looks so graceful but it's the power that creates the grace and that power comes from alignment often. It's not necessarily that you have to have big muscles and lots of strength, you have to have alignment and understand leverage and that's a big part of what you teach through body prep, you know?

Yeah! It's crazy you just mentioning, you know, how today very much like we're just saying, performance-oriented, like that ski-snow kind of interaction, but very much centered around— yeah, centered around like those lines. So say someone is just thinking like, okay, like before they go down the hill, they're thinking about the lines in the snow that are being left, versus you take away that and you're thinking about managing mass and momentum. Yeah, it doesn't matter what you're leaving on the snow as long as your intended direction and flow of that is good. That's going to end up more dance-like. Whereas if you— it's just, uh, just interesting thinking about that because you're right, that direction of like carving and tracks and— but yeah, but you— once you start looking beyond that and, and be able to glide sideways on skis and, and blend it in, sort of like the tracks will look that way.

But yeah, it's that whole pendulum thing and how it's moved, you know, in a couple of directions. And I think it is coming, you know, back to the middle. I think like within the Canadian Ski Instructors Alliance, uh, for like in the last couple of years, we've really started to focus on ski-snow interaction. Like that's where your, your feedback starts. Like as you look at a skier, um, what is the ski doing in the snow? But first you need to know what is the intention, what did the skier want to achieve? Without that, you know, what was their objective, then, then you're going to be off base. Like if if the ski is sliding and you say, oh man, you're skidding, 'cause your mind is focused on carving, but that was what their intention was, well, they might be actually, you know, nailing the performance and it's exactly what they need. So understanding the objective of the skier, of the turn, whatever, of the run is gonna be critical. But I think it does start on modern skis. Are you achieving the ski snow interaction? Is the skiing objective being met? And then we can flow into the body and the alignment. And I think it should still be aesthetically pleasing. Like, I think that's what makes skiing look cool, if we can use that word, is how the skier does look. So I don't want to jettison the appearance of the skier for just pure performance, you know what I mean? Um, yeah, but somehow they end up going hand in hand, you know.

I know, that's right.

Like the Mikaela Shiffrin as an example, who I think skis elegantly as well with great alignment, skis with such power. So somehow the form and the function do connect, you know.

That's right. Yeah, there's, there's something there, even though if you purely looked at it, you know, scientifically, well, it's just got to be fast and on the edge, like the other things shouldn't matter. But it seems that they do. It does come together. There is an effect. Yeah. So Jason, anyone else you would say like more, uh, recently you can remember like a real breakthrough in, in your skiing with— in my own skiing, or, or like mentors that have helped, or even you figured it out yourself? Like, what, what's the— what's, what's been— what's, what was a pivotal moment you went, oh, I've been trying to figure out how to do that, suddenly got it?

Yeah, I mean, there's so many. Um, yeah, because some of— like, sometimes I'm like I might have to admit that I'm, I've been wrong, uh, as I went through my own development. And, uh, you know, like most recently, I guess I've been very, very focused on trying to balance early on my new outside ski, to the point that I was doing it before ski's flat. You know what I mean? Like I'm on the little toe, on my little toe side of my foot, I'm still on edge from the last turn, and I'm already weighting this foot which works because it does take away weight from the, the old outside foot. The center of mass crosses over. But I think in a way, I— it, it was too soon, and I would— and kind of moving correctly and put too much emphasis on, on lower leg angulation because of it. Like, I was so focused on that that I forgot to use my, my hips, thinking that they would move passively to align. Like, as the base moved, the the center of mass would end up where it should be. And, um, and I stopped using it. And it— so what happened is I was over-angulating, and, um, like lower leg, you know, over-angulation with no— the inclination was being sacrificed in the, you know, the overall balance and freedom throughout the turn was lost. I was kind of locked in. And you could see— well, if you look at video, you can see the knees coming together and things like that happening. So, but I thought that was the right thing. Like, I'm focusing on pronating my foot and working with my little toe to my big toe, and I'm doing all of these things.

And I'm doing things early, like, like early. Like, do things— don't do it late. So you're like thinking you're on the right track there?

Yeah, I thought I was totally on the right track. And then, to be honest, skiing with you, uh, this, this year, that, you know, at Silver Star, that's when you kind of talked about that. And, and it— wow, like, once I made just a slight timing change and also thought about being more active with the center of mass, those two things created more power, a better arc, performance at the right time, yet I felt more relaxed at the same time. Like there was a freedom, there was no tension where there shouldn't be tension. So the latest breakthrough and not to, you know, to your horn, but it, you know, in big picture skiing, but it happened. It happened this winter. That was quite a change. And, uh, yeah, and you can see it in some of the videos that you and I shot, uh, in my— the final video I shot, you know, at the end of April at Sunshine was just such a different alignment, way more stacked and relaxed. And, and there's symmetry where there should be, you know, the appropriate symmetry. And so I'm excited to continue down that path this winter and see where it takes me.

Excellent. Yeah, I, I, I'm excited that you're joining the Big Picture Coaching team. That's, that's going to be good. That's going to be cool. And, uh, so I mean, speaking to that, we're offering this online academy that I run. So a small group of people to work directly with us, be able to send in video, join in weekly Zoom sessions where we'll discuss a topic like a— guess what, I think the side slipping one's going to come up. And yeah, for sure, yeah, like, like people are going to be tasked with working on the things that we think are important to develop their skiing. And then you're in charge of the group that are going to be sort of CSIA ski instructor specific. So then if they're— whether or not they're going for exams doesn't matter, they could just be wanting to be better skiers, that doesn't matter. But you're there to help sort of translate sort of language terminology used in the Canadian stuff with the Big Picture program. So I'm, I'm stoked on that. Uh, can, can I ask you, you've joined in and you've sort of sat in with the Body Prep, my offseason coaching program. Any little things you've found, you've learned from that experience that, that you think it's like, wow, okay, that's gonna help, or Yeah, you've had a glimpse into it yourself.

Yeah, I think there's so many that, to be honest, Tom, right now I couldn't hone in on one particular thing. But what I can say is that, um, and this is what I noticed in your approach from the very, very beginning, like when I first watched one of your videos with the, you know, here's the skeleton and the joints moving, and then their picture of you skiing, and then, you know, and to understand how it truly works, like sometimes I don't know if the the language that we use in our different organizations gets deep enough into how we truly move. And that's what Body Prep was all about. It wasn't about training and muscles and cardiovascular system. Not— and then when I say muscles in terms of strength, you honed in on specifically how the joint works, what muscles move those, and how that attaches to a certain point of the turn. And and that's like, it was like a mind-muscle connection connected to the practicalities of traveling on an arc on a ski. And I found that absolutely mind-blowing. We just patterned movements that we're going to need later on snow. And yeah, I can't wait to use that. So I think that, and that's always what appealed to me, like you, there was like sort of like, I think of The Matrix where the, you know, they say the question is out there looking for you, you know, like, and it's making you crazy, like, or the answer is looking for you, pardon me. And that's what it was like. There was things I couldn't answer, I couldn't explain, but I knew innately I needed to. And some of those videos that you produce, I went, there's the answer. And that's what— so I just started following you more and more and more and starting to become a bit of a disciple, I suppose. And now I can't wait to share those ideas. And that's what you've brought, I think, is you've been very inquisitive and have dug deep into your understanding of how the body moves and your love of snow sport. And, um, that's an amazing, you know, uh, connection. So, uh, yeah, I don't know if I answered that question appropriately.

Yeah, no, no, no, uh, yeah, thank you very much. I mean, I think, uh, you, you put it really well in that mind-muscle connection and then taking one step further to, and then in this situation, this part of the turn, that's when you're going to need to feel this. Like, that's what we're doing it— we're doing this stuff, and we're not doing squats or this and that, like, just getting generally stronger. It's like, no, no, no, like, what, what, where are you putting the weight of this part of your body on this joint? Do you realize it's creating this leverage, which is forcing this muscle, muscle to work, and you're, you're countering it with this part of your body? Have you tried countering it with another part of your body and see what, what does that do? Does that— how does that position your mass? And so it's hopefully going to help. Like, you're hopefully going to come into this season, even though you're already a very experienced skier, with just another level up on awareness. Yeah, of like, of things, and be able to sort of put even more style into your skiing.

So, um, exactly. Yeah, I think that that's what's great about, you know, I think that's what attracted me and kept me in skiing for so long is the pursuit of the perfect turn. I don't know if that's a thing, but it is. It takes a long time to be really good at this, to be consistently good at it. And there's always new learnings and, you know, new epiphanies that come along. You know, uh, I think you— one of the things from this year was you also— and it's in one of your videos— that your legs may not be parallel from your hips. To your feet, right? Because of Q angles and things like that. And so maybe don't try to have parallel legs, probably parallel shins, but maybe not parallel femurs. And I thought that, and, and just that little tip changed me a lot. Like, because I'm not pushing my knee somewhere that it shouldn't be in an effort to— my inside knee, especially in an effort to make my legs parallel. And looking for that in other skiers and understanding that may not be appropriate for their build, you know.

Yeah, like you said, now you, you really have the answer to say, hey, this is why I don't— you don't need to— you would have seen it but then not known how to answer it correctly and said, well, I know you're trying to not, you know, A-frame, and so you're rolling that inside leg. And before this, you would have known, well, I don't have an account to that because if they take that and they go back, they're probably going to A-frame. But now you go, hang on, I always knew there's something wrong there, but I can explain why. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's so many cool things. I can't wait to get the winter rolling.

I'm really looking forward to that. Yeah, yeah. And that gives us consistency. So, you know, yes, we're going to be able to, over 10 weeks or the whole season, 20 weeks, be able to go, doesn't matter if you haven't got this in the first few tries. Keep going, keep submitting video. We'll keep, like, checking, like, different things until— maybe it's a boot alignment thing, and we can check that online— that is, that is stopping you from being able to release both skis simultaneously, or whatever it is. And, um, you know what, you know what I find is it's always amazing. You get to this point, and, um, you know, someone will hear you say, so, like, say the inside knee, like, don't roll your inside knee so much because of blah blah blah. The, the thing that's probably been getting in someone's way was something from maybe 3, 4 years ago where someone with good authority said, hey, you need to do this, you shouldn't do that. And so they've held on to that belief and really patented in, and, and that is the thing that is getting in the way of, of progress. So kind of blowing common, yeah, misconceptions out of the water, that sort of stuff is, is really fun. With this length of time we get to work with people. I like to work with people for a longer period of time. You can have a better—

Oh, I think so too. Yeah. And I'm not going to tell the whole story, but I can tell you in my own development, there was certainly misunderstandings along the way. And we spoke of one of them, but like, people should not be frustrated with how long it takes to learn something, or if they maybe even need to unlearn something. Don't be frustrated with that. I was a, you know, level 4 for 15 It was 15 years when I had a massive breakthrough and realized I had misunderstood something, and it changed my scheme so much. And I, I'll tell that story at another time, but don't be frustrated and put the time in and know that, you know, in our culture, our microwave culture, where we think we can fix things immediately, we want what we want and we want it now. This is career-long development. And so 10 weeks, 20 weeks, that'll just set the stage, you know, for the development. And you might learn this it'll make sense next year. You know what I mean? Exactly. You picked it up now, you know. So, uh, yeah, I think you're, you're very right. Long-term and, and lots of reinforcement. And that's what, um, the online, you know, academy can do for you. You know, for those that are going to participate, you can submit a video or two every single day, and you can— and you will own that video. It'll be recorded and, uh, archived and downloaded with you so you can go back to it over and over again. And it'll take some time, but, uh, but work with it, you know. And so yeah, it— long story short, this is— long-term development is where it's at. It won't happen overnight, but it will happen if you have the perseverance.

Yeah. So, so on that, if people are interested in joining the Big Picture Skiing Academy, whether just to— you don't have to be a CSIA member, but we've got that program as well. If you go to bigpictureskiing.com and at the top there is an Academy button, you click on that, Winter Academy, and there's an application form there. And so we're taking applications, we'll go through it, and if we feel it's the right fit, we're going to organize a time. So Jason or myself are going to get in touch with you and we'll have a chat like this over Zoom, look at some of your skiing, discuss your goals, and yeah, see if it's the right right fit for you. But that's, that's the process if you, if you're interested in doing something like this, this upcoming winter. Absolutely.

Yeah.

Awesome, Jason. Uh, thank you very much for your time. I've really enjoyed the stories. I mean, I'm a huge fan of, of, of, of skiing sort of from, from when you, you started. There's just so many, yeah, just good lessons, amazing skiers. Like methods of, of doing things back then that I think, yeah, I, I'm trying to incorporate and bring, bring into my, into my own skiing now. Because yeah, that you don't have to reinvent the wheel. Um, so, so thank you for your stories and your insights. Thank you for joining the, the coaching team. Thanks everyone for listening, and we'll hear from you next time.

Excellent. Thanks very much, Tom, and thanks everybody. Look forward to skiing with you this winter.