Tips on selecting your next pair of skis - Advice from Phil at SkiTalk

Who doesn't love getting brand new ski gear? Well, today I'm hopefully going to help you in making a really great decision in choosing your next pair of skis, and I've got some fantastic help from the likes of Phil Puglisi from SkiTalk.com. So I wanted to get in touch with Phil to talk about ski reviews because he's done a great job of it for one, but done so much of it over the years. So utilizing Phil's extensive knowledge and long history of gear testing, we're going to get 4 really useful things to think about when we go and test skis. The first one is the conditions. The second is the ski tune. The third is what effect the binding has on the feel and test of the ski. And then finally, the ski itself. So I found this really informative and useful to think about when you go and try new gear. It is not just the ski you are demoing, when you go and demo skis. There are these other factors, and if you take those into consideration, you're going to get a much better overall idea of what you are feeling and what you are really looking for, especially as you go on and try and buy new and different skis down the line. Getting the right gear can really make a difference to your skiing, and I mentioned this in the show that I find a lot of people that come to some of the Big Picture Skiing camps or lessons with me are on gear that is not really helping them improve as fast as they could. So make sure you pay attention to sort of some of the ideas Phil gives around that sort of daily driver ski, because I really think it's some great advice and will help you in your pursuit of getting better. And if you're looking for some help with your ski technique, I can highly recommend you check out my website bigpictureskiing.com. There are video lessons on there from the intermediate level up to the expert on things from how to ski moguls to carving steeper black runs. If you've ever looked at yourself on video and thought, I could really improve my technique, then this is exactly what Big Picture Skiing is designed to change. There are people all around the world improving their technique with the help of Big Picture Skiing. Just check out the Google reviews on the landing page to get some reassurance on that. So get ready, this is a really interesting episode, ton of takeaways from someone with a lot of experience on gear reviewing. Hey Phil, you are in the lucky seat that you get to test a lot of gear, and particularly skis. Each, each year you're doing ski reviews. Now just before we started the podcast, you mentioned something really interesting that I think people need to consider when they test skis. So can you share what that, that is?

Um, Tom, everybody likes to try skis. Everybody likes those shiny new objects. They want to see what's out there coming next, and that's where demo demos are really popular with consumers. Again, we even— there's some people say, oh, you must demo a ski before you buy it. Well, yeah, that's all well and good, but there's some caveats that really come into what it takes to demo a ski. Now, I did an article a little bit ago, and that is the 4 things to consider when you're demoing a ski. Well, first of all, you think, are you out there just for fun? You just want to try this stuff, or you're looking for something for yourself? If you're looking for something for yourself, are you looking to replace something or complement something? So it's a lot— really depends on how you want to— what your purpose for demoing is. Do we want to build your quiver, or you're looking for that one ski to do everything equally poorly? So, and in that process, in demoing, when you're demoing, you're demoing 4 things. You're demoing the conditions that you're trying that ski in. You're demoing the tune that is on the ski. You're demoing the binding that is also on that ski. We get into a lot of variables there. And lastly, we're demoing the ski and the feel of the ski. But those first 3 things really come before we even think about that ski. Now, in that process, where are you getting your information from? Where are you demoing that ski? Are you at an industry show, or you've got a bunch of tents out and all the reps are there and you're going from tent to tent to try skis? That is usually your best option. Now, a lot of resorts have demo centers where you can try skis. Now, when you walk into these, look around. Most of these also are rental centers. You're really not demoing a ski. You're taking out a high-performance rental, a ski that really might be going out every single day and not getting the care and tuning that you would expect in a new ski for considering it. So take a look at the ski. It's been beat up, it's been out on snow a lot. Take a look at the bases. If it's not conditioned, you're wasting your time really in this process.

So I mean, Phil, if we, if we start there on the, on the tune side of things, like you and I have done a lot of skiing, are there any tips you would give people feel-wise to go, oh, this ski doesn't feel great, but maybe I should rule out that it's the tune first. Are there some things you kind of feel for? You go, oh, I can't fairly judge this ski yet because it's the tune.

Tom, that's happened a lot at demos, and this is at industry shows where they're trying to sell retailers on carrying a ski. And I've seen poorly tuned skis there, and some of it is no fault of the manufacturer. They're rushing to get these skis to the demo. They're unwrapping the skis first thing in the morning. Putting bindings on it and maybe putting a tune on it. But a lot of these skis are raw coming over from Europe or wherever they're being produced and getting ready for demo that morning. So I mean, on a professional level, we run into that problem. I'm sure you've experienced that yourself. But as a consumer, what you also have to consider is, again, what, what do the bases look like? What do the edges look like? Most of the skis are going to have a basic simple, uh, 1-degree base bevel and 2-degree side bevel, which is your average tune for the majority of the people. It's an acute angle which cuts into the snow, and you want that ski to react nicely. Now, if you run your fingers down the edges and you feel burrs on them, you know that ski hasn't been set up yet. So that's something to take into consideration, and that's usually the case from a rental, a demo center. Versus from an actual demo, where the actual demos, they're really to help you purchase the ski. The rental center, quite frankly, is just a profit center for the resort. They don't care if you buy a ski or not. They're out there just to get you as many feet as possible. Exactly, exactly. Which is really unfortunate.

So I was going to say, like, one thing I, I mean, I feel the often the worst kind of tune is when, say, like the, the skis are a bit railed or really grabby. Like, if a ski is feeling that, like, you don't often find— would you agree— a ski where the construction is giving you that feeling. If you feel a very grabby, hooky tail or tip, that is a sign that the tune is not probably really refined enough. And so you might want to not judge that ski as really hooky, whatever, it's the tune. Would you, would you kind of—

very, very much so. Very much so. I mean, all the skis now, the performance window is much bigger than they ever were in years past. I mean, we used to have performance windows that were this big on a ski. Now you'd be fore on a ski, you'd be aft on the ski, and just relax in the ski, it's still going to perform really good. It's the same way an old Porsche didn't really come alive till 100 miles an hour., where a new one is just as comfortable at 30 miles an hour as it is at 130 miles an hour. Same thing with skis. Now we've got a big performance window on these skis. If you feel that ski is really grippy and you can't work the ski and feather a little bit, chances are the ski is flat or it doesn't have a proper base bevel on it, or the structure on the ski— and that's the finish on the ski— might be a little bit aggressive and grippy, not allowing that ski to be worked at all. So that's where you you have to almost take a look at that. And then the other area where this kind of delves into is the bindings and how does that binding react on that ski. Yes.

And that's what I'm going to set you up on this one.

Okay.

I think this is, uh, that's a really interesting— so I think, yeah, people are— if you're going out testing skis, I think you mentioned it quickly, but there's conditions. So, you know, first of all that's— you're testing the condition, so the ski might not go well there. But, but the tune, really important. So if that's all right, then you're getting closer to testing the ski. But then, yeah, you mentioned the binding part, and I think this is probably the least— is the most overlooked aspect, right? So say I went and tried those, uh, let me— I'll give this a vocal, a vocal with a vocal Kendo with a demo binding, and I love the ski. I was like, yeah, this is the best ski for these conditions, I'm going to go buy it. And then I bought it, Phil, and a slightly different binding was put on it, and I go out and I go, this ski feels not the same. Why is that happening?

A couple things. One is the stack height of the binding, and that's the height of the binding because of that demo track adds a little bit because they need the adjustability on it for an F and up and down. But it's also a little bit higher, which changes how you tilt that ski onto the snow. That's part of it. And Marker, again, very progressive in their bindings and what they've done through different series. But I've got 3 different Marker, 3 different Marker demo bindings here that have different deltas and different heights on them. Some of the Markers have, um, a 5mm— I'm sorry, 11mm stack height, both toe and the heel. Some of them it's a 16mm toe and heel, and some of it has actually 11 on a toe and 16 on the back, which changes that delta, which changes how you pressure the tip of that ski. Now, that is also much more prevalent with women and, and guys with smaller boots, because as we move this closer and further out, it changes that delta of the binding. So that's where some of that could have changed in that. Now Marker's in right now is evolving some of this to mirror the stack height of their demo binding with their retail binding. And the brands that, that work with Marker that are under that Marker umbrella, and that will be Mark— that will be Volkl, K2, and Line, do prefer their skis to be demoed with their binding on it, which is understandable. They feel it was— the ski was designed with their binding, therefore it should be skied with their binding. And just to take into consideration now that new demo binding is closer to mirroring their retail counterpart, so your experience demoing that is going to be the same. Now the Delta— we, we talk about this a lot in Delta. We're seeing a lot of changes.

We should probably explain that just for people because I think, I mean, it's great if you go on to skitalk.com. Yep. Phil has actually reviewed all the binding manufacturers. And within that, so say like Tyrolia, you can look at the binding that's on the ski behind me, like the Attack 14, the one that's on my Fischer Curves, all the different bindings there. And Phil has got metrics on how high the toe piece is and how high the heel is. And that part is probably the most usable bit of information you're going to find there. So, so if you have a toe height of say 5 millimeters or, or was it 17? So you're 17 millimeters off from the ski, and then the heel height is 24 millimeters. Then you've got this difference, and your heel is higher than your toe, and, and that change in height really affects how you stand on the ski and, like you said, pressure the ski. So, so Phil's got all this information there, which I think is like amazing. Um, so anyway, I was—

so that—

so there's that part of it. So So people don't realize that again, when you're testing the ski, you're testing also the feel of that delta and the, the height off, off the ski. So, um, yeah, why would have I— why might have I felt a difference with the— can you use the, the, the Marker one, for example? I know they're changing, but just for— because someone might have done that this season, right?

Well, and again, you get into your stance and you want to be skeletally stacked over the ski. So you're very neutral. And think about a spring. If you're squeezing a spring down from the top, you want— and just press on top— you don't want that spring to squirt out from the side. And if your body stance is skeletally stacked, that's pretty— that body works like a spring and it adjusts. What happens sometimes, and again, this varies from person to person, there are people that like different ways, so we don't want to make a blanket statement that one is better than the other. This is why there's a multitude of different stances.. But you want— what I'm looking for is consistency in it and consistency in that process and taking that variable out. So if you want to have this, the same stance angle, and say your, your boot is a 4-degree ramp inside the boot and a 12-degree upright, if you've got a bind that is a -3mm delta, it is changing everything and changing your stance. Where some people might have difficulty pressuring the tip of that ski. When you do that, they might— if you've ever been on a ski, do you feel that ski is coming out from underneath you in the front? You can't press the front of it. That could be the binding. So, I mean, and I'm not saying it is, but it definitely could be. Now, behind you working with Fischer, have you gotten on the new Curv GT 85?

I haven't, no, not yet.

Okay, so Okay, really nice ski. But what they did with that binding also is they changed that new plate on that, on that, on that System binding. So the Delta will stay identical no matter if somebody's in a 22.5 or 29.5. They've changed that Delta.

So it has like a, oh, like a ramp that goes the other way. Okay, okay. And I'll quickly, I'll jump in there because if you can picture in your mind, if you have a really short foot, like a— like my wife's foot is like in a 22.5, like a really short foot. If you're on a binding that has 17 and 24 in the heel, so 7mm difference, yeah, the closer the heel and toe are, the more tip forward you feel. And if you're in a 29.5, it doesn't— you don't really notice as much. So what you're saying is this new binding, basically it's consistent whether you're in a massive boot or a little boot. The, the stance angle you feel is the same.

Yeah. So the partners that work with Tyrolia, Alon and Fischer, they're getting variations of this new plate. Head has one for their new Super Shapes for next year. Is they— theirs is actually like this here. So as the boot comes in together, stays the same as it comes out, it actually, again, it stays the same also. So we're seeing a lot of that.

Um, that's a pretty cool innovation because I mean, yeah, like, you know, you could test it and you're in a 26.5 and say, you know, my friend tests it and he's at 28 and you're gonna get a different— like, it's gonna, it's gonna take away some variables, isn't it? Basically it's just keeping, you know, so then you go, well, actually I prefer more delta, I prefer less, and so then people can get individual.

But at least the consistency, as you mentioned, Yeah, and the thing with those bindings, I mean, they, they're standard on those, those specific skis, on the Curve GTs, on, on the regular Curve series from, from Fischer. It had also all the Super Shapes have this system on it, so it's not a matter of somebody's going to buy that ski then go out and put a different binding on it. That's what you're getting with that ski.

So it's more those like flat, like the Ranger or a Kendo or a you know, like wider skis. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, so I guess I think it's really useful. You've done the research and the, and the measurements. I'm just thinking like people should go and whatever they're on, they should go check their binding and then maybe even check it to like their P ski or their other powder ski and have a look at SkiTalk. Where would they, would they find that? How would be the easiest way to find the, the binding gear review bit?

That's in, that's in our community section in the, in the gear review section. It's a sticky at the top where we have all of the current year bindings from the 4 major manufacturers, um, a little bit about the bindings. We got the weights, we've got the, this toe, the toe height, the heel height, um, the pluses and the minuses of certain bindings, uh, things to consider in that purchase process. So, right, we've got that. And I mean, while, while we're on the topic of bindings we get the, we get the discussion a lot of why should I spend $400 on a binding, or I, because I don't ski a binding above a 7 or an 8, why do I need a binding that goes to 15 or 20 or whatever the case may be? Bindings are about two things: performance and safety. Every binding, if we put it on it, on it, on a machine and test the calibration, it's gonna— and with certain numbers, it's going to come in with range of the same Newton meters as, as it should, what it's interface to release that binding. But we also have to remember, binding is a coupling to the ski, and it's holding your boot to the ski. So we want as snug and solid of an interface as possible. When you're buying a better binding, you're not buying just a bigger spring. In most cases, you're buying a better housing, so the binding is built better, so you're going to get a more solid interface. So when you've got that ski up on edge and you've got the boot pressing down the hard snow, that ski isn't moving underneath it as you're pressuring it. So it's going to stay constant through, and it's less chance of pre-release even running it at your, um, ideal settings. Got it. So because you're going to get, again, a better coupling and the less— that's fine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, interesting. Yeah. And you know what, I was just— I'm just thinking, because of the kind of skis I get, I guess I, I am in that range of bindings that tend to snug up to my foot. And then when I'm teaching people on like bindings that aren't like that, there are certain things they can be feeling that I'm just taking for granted just because my binding, the way it is, holds me to my ski more securely.

Yeah.

Do you want to mention to then, like, if then people are going, right, okay, well, I need to upgrade it, are there some things people want to consider? Like, as you mentioned, the, the number range, like, you know, 8 to 20 or something, and then, or 3 to 11. Yeah, people should be— it's, it's still recommended you want to be ideally in the middle of that number, somewhere in there. Is that still the—

there was a time that was the case. Now, any of these bindings that— if it's a 6 to 15 or whatever that range is, you could put that binding at 6 and run it all day long and not have a problem. When we put it on a machine to, to torque it and to make sure it's functioning with the range, it's going to be fine. If it says 6 in a window it's going to work fine. So you— there's no— there was a time when bindings weren't quite frankly as refined as they were. The machining wasn't quite as good as they are now. Right now these are pretty foolproof in the design and the way that they function. Now with that said, I would be hesitant running it at the top end for the simple reason we want that spring to have some elasticity. If we got it at that very top end, that spring is compressed, so we're losing some of that elasticity and that function in real-world application. We put on the machine, it's going to function properly, but in real world, we might lose some of that elasticity in that design.

Okay, perfect. Hey Phil, what do you— what have you found works really well for your body shape, your skiing style, in a binding? Like, have you got a preference? You're like, oh, if I'm gonna put a binding on a ski, I get this and I like about this much toe and heel. Like, are there any of the things that you prefer?

There is. Um, with— we're going to get to some brands here, there's no way around that. Um, I like a longitude— there's two types of toe designs, a lateral spring and a longitudinal spring. And, and you're— we're familiar with the bindings that have lateral springs. That's gonna be the Marker Royal bindings. That's going to be the The Tyrolia attacks, uh, and what that does, that creates a very fast return to center. So it keeps you over the center of the ski, so there's, there's not as much elasticity, but it's very responsive over the center of the ski. And there's, there is a school of thought behind that. You should be over the center of the ski, or if you're not on the center of the ski, you should be off the ski. Okay, and, and that's, that's like with Marker race binding. I mean, the Comp bindings, it's been emulated by, by the Arma Group with their bindings, that it's one of the best functioning race bindings, that you're just over the center of that ski. Great, that works for that application. I personally like a longitudinal spring, that spring that runs north and south on the binding, and what that does, that for me gives a little more elasticity in the binding. Before it releases. And what I personally like about that is it allows me to run the binding at a medium to even lower setting without worrying of pre-releasing, because I've got a lot of room in that binding before it does release. And that's the confidence level. And again, bindings are about confidence for people. We know we want to hold this in, we know we want to release it, and where's that balance of confidence for you? There, I mean, anything above a 12 or 13 is a quality binding. There's no ifs about it. And I mean, we can talk to nuances and personal preferences all day long, and we're never going to get anywhere, but they're all good. But as you get a little bit better, is we get into a little bit better built-up binding. And again, that helps increase that confidence without the cost of safety. Got it. Because that, that the better binding is not going to function any different than a lesser one.

What about— do you— have you found you like a preference? Like, say you get on a binding and you can straight away go, oh, this is changing the feel of the ski because of the ramp, uh, the, the delta. Do you want to speak? And again, personally, I'm just interested, like, what have you found works for you?

Um, yeah, I, I, I like a positive delta, which means the heel is higher than the toe of about anywhere from 3 to 6 millimeters positive delta. I, I ski in a smaller boot. I ski in a 25.5, so that I'm a little more sensitive to binding delta than a lot of guys because I am in that small boot. I know some guys who run 24.5s, they're extremely sensitive, but because again, the leg lever again tends to be a little bit longer for, for guys, especially even if they're in that smaller boot, so they, they do feel that. But yeah, I, I like that. And I also like a shorter mount distance, and that's where the Look Pivot comes in. It's got that very short mount distance, allows that ski to flex very naturally underneath the boot. It also creates a very low rotation weight on it because of all of the mass has been brought in, uh, very close to the boot. So even though it might be a little bit heavier if we put it on a scale than some other bindings, but the rotational weight and the feel on snow can be a little bit lighter of a feel. One of the reasons very popular freestyle instead of doing a lot of spins and rotation, it helps keep that mass towards the center of the ski where it's, it's, it's less sprung weight, kind of like, like a wheel on a bike.

Yeah, it makes sense. So then if you— to help people maybe get more in tune, because I was talking to you, I was saying you must have like— you've tuned your sensitivity to gear to such a high level because you're responsible for imparting this kind of knowledge across a broad range, whereas, you know, me, I just have to care about me. So like, a lot of people I don't think are sensitive to these things, but getting like— taking a leaf out of your book, if they are being more sensitive, like, what do you feel if you get on a binding that doesn't say the— say it's flatter in the delta? Do you notice, oh, are you like on the tails more? What do you— what do you put—

what I find that I am, I'm a little more neutral. I like to pressure that tip into a turn. And you would ask me earlier what actually, what characteristics do I like in the ski. I like a lot of flare on the tip. I like a tip as I engage, as I roll that ski over, that tip initiates across the hill. And again, I'm not saying get into a full slalom shape in a ski, um, in the tip and the tail, but I do like a little flare in that tip. And I found that with the new Volkl M7s for this coming year, the Mantra M7 and also the Secret 96. Volkl added about 6 millimeters the tip of that ski, another 2 to this, the tail. And we've said in boot fitting, in millimeters a mile, in this ski design, this is 6 miles difference. I mean, that new Mantra initiates so beautifully without losing what that Mantra was always known for, is that crud-busting ski.

It just makes it a little more intuitive because that would be one thing that I've even— you know, I used to ski a lot on Volkl, the Kendo and the Mantra. It just, it just felt like a bit too much work that I didn't want to do to get the front of the ski. But I— so what you're saying is this new one, and it just in general ski design, a little more sidecut, like wider shape in the tip and you— that's pulling you into the turn.

Just, yeah, yeah. Where that old Mantras can feel a little vague in that tip unless you really pushed it. And in 3-dimensional, in 3-dimensional snow, that was fine. But when you got in the firmer conditions, when you needed that, now that ski does have that in that new design. They added it also to the, the, um, the Blaze 96, uh, for this coming year too. So we're seeing it there then. Uh, looking into the future, I'm sure we're going to see it expanding across both collections, uh, going down to the Mantra 88s and, uh, the rest of the blazers too.

Okay, so then moving, we've kind of eliminated, or we've, you know, people are aware of the snow conditions, uh, the tune on the ski, the type of binding they're using, how that's going to affect the feel of the ski. We're up to the fit, the feel, the ski.

Let's circle, let's circle back a second. To the conditions. Um, my suggestion when somebody's going out: ski that first run on your skis. That way you get a feel for the snow on what, on what it's like in your skis. So when you're feeling a difference, you're actually, you know what you're feeling. Is it the tune? Is it the shape? Is it the bindings coming from your skis? Or a combination, all the above. But start the day on your own skis. And if you're— if you're demoing different— if you're demoing different skis, try to demo them all the same day, in the same conditions, on the same run. So, and ideally in the conditions that they're designed for. If you're thinking about a one-way powder ski, don't bother skiing on a groomer day. You— that ski is really not designed— that's not the, um, not the wheelhouse. That ski— ski the ski in the conditions that it's supposed to be skied in.

That you want to ski it in.

Perfect.

Yes, I think that, that's, that's a real— because humans, we need something to compare. We need an apple to compare to another apple or an orange to know.

On—

and the day, day-to-day conditions change all the time.

So yeah, nice one. And it's, it's funny, on, on that note, we get the people that they're on a, oh, Rossi Bandit or a Salomon Extreme, and you need to go out demo skis. No, just go out, buy a damn ski. I mean, anything that you get on is going to be leaps and bounds better than what you have now. And it's just a matter of getting on that ski and just making it and just controlling the ski. So if you're on anything more than 15 to 20 years old, throw a dart at the wall, whatever looks good to you, grab that ski. And I'm being half facetious here, um, but if that person does want to ski and they've got a list of 5 skis that they're considering in that, that to buy, and they've got a chance— and I'm talking perfect world utopia situation— they got a chance of demoing all 5 skis, but in their mind they got one particular one that they're really leaning towards. Don't demo that first, demo that ski last. You're coming off of 20-year-old technology, and what you're going to feel in those first couple of skis is not so much the skis but difference coming from your skis. And not till you get into those later skis is it going to start clicking for you, saying, oh yeah, okay, yeah, now I'm feeling those differences. Then you can get— maybe get into the nuances of what 20 years have done in technology over, uh, in those skis. But for the most part, any 85mm skis will be fine for them. Cool.

So we're up to like feeling the ski. So all those other things we're aware of, and, you know, hopefully the binding is more in the, the ballpark of what we like. Yeah. What are the things you kind of feel for that are characteristic because of the ski design and construction? Like, um, I know this is a very open-ended question. Let me see if I can narrow it down. Okay, say you're looking— feel you're, you're looking for a new general daily drive a piste-type ski, there's not a lot of fresh snow, that kind of day ski. Personally, what do you— you talked about the tip sort of engaging, maybe you could talk a little bit about the flex and, and sort of with things that you, that you personally like.

Oh, for on, on this thought process, right now the industry and the consumers are looking in 95 to 105mm kilometer skis as their daily drivers. That's not really a good ski for that. That is a ski for the conditions we hope to get versus the conditions we actually get. Let's think about a ski for the conditions we actually get, and that the majority of the people are going to be in that low 80s to upper 80s width segment. Now we're into a lot, a lot of ski skis in there, and that is a melting pot of design. We've got two, two build philosophies. There's a lot of overlap. One is a narrow-wide ski, and that is a wide platform like a Mantra that's narrowed down to a Mantra 88 or a Kendo 88 that people are familiar with. But it's that wide platform narrowed down. Or your Fischer behind you, there's a Fischer 80 94, along with the Fischer 90 and the 96, that are wide, that are narrow wide skis. Then on the other side, we've got wide narrow skis, and that is the, like, the Head E-Titan. Narrow skis as far as shape-wise that are brought into a wider platform. So these are skis that are really good. You can get two 85mm Fishers, the current, the GT 85 and the Ranger 84, that could almost coexist in the same quiver. They are that different. But on that, that narrow wide ski is a ski that is a little more finesse oriented. You roll that ski, it's going to come around, make really nice round turns for you. It's a little more, uh, on-groom, on-piste biased with some off-piste stability. The, the narrow wide skis are more off-piste with some on-piste stability. There's— there really isn't one right or wrong. It's what you're looking for in attributes of a ski. Now then, we also throw in what we use as a power finesse scale. Finesse ski is a ski that likes to be, um, ridden. A power ski likes to be driven. And this is where, again, I use cars a lot as analogies because people have driven a multitude of different cars. Think about driving a Lexus versus a BMW. The Lexus likes to be ridden and nice and smooth, very supple. Nice and quiet. The BMW likes to be driven, a little more performance-oriented. What are those characteristics are you looking for? Now, in this process and talking to— if you're looking online and looking at reviews such as ours and, and some other various sites out there, or going into the shop, be careful where you're getting the information from. And what— either there's biases when you go into the shop, and unfortunately, I'm not sure if you're seeing it where you are, we're seeing a change in the quality of shop employees. We no longer have the lifer in there, in the shop, that has been there, that's been on every incarnation of a ski since it came out in 1984, versus the guy that's only smart as his last clinic that the rep was telling about skis. And there's a sales promotion on that ski— if he sells 10 pairs, he gets a free pair. That his eyes are on him. And be careful talking to the person that talks more than they listen. You need a salespeople that have two ears and one mouth. Somebody that's gonna ask questions and listen to your answers and not gravitate towards a ski or first grab a ski off of the wall and say, dude, this is what Hoji skis. Well, I'm not Hoji. Yeah. Yeah. I'm 60 years old, so I, I don't care what he skis. I don't care what a lot of these pro skiers— it's irrelevant to me. What's going to be best for me? Where do you ski? The conditions you ski? Is it— are you happy with where you are ability-wise? Are you looking to improve? Again, are you looking to add something? Are you looking to just to complement, or you're looking to replace? What are you looking for, for your ski that your current one is not doing?

That type of thing.

Perfect.

I, I got, I got a question for you. This is legitimate because I— so I've skied that Fisher Range in '96. I've never skied the '84, but I really want to try it. And then I've got sitting over there a pair of the, the Curve GTs, okay, uh, in, in the '78. And I loved skiing those this, this last season because I've been on the, the CT for a while, which is a really stiff, like Oh yeah, it's like the Porsche, you got to drive that thing.

Yeah.

And the GT was such a nice— I felt like I could ride it more and I could really feel the bend in a turn of that ski. Like, I could feel it flex without as much effort, and, and it felt— I felt more confident, sort of more comfortable, less, less exhausted. Um, and on the other end, you know, I took it to a really steep groomed black run one day and I could feel where its limit wasn't as high as the CT. Okay, so I like that, I like that, that Curve GT, which is sort of sitting in that range of what you're saying is the wider, narrower sort of ski. Like, it's, it's getting closer to that, that spectrum. The Ranger 84 has come from the other end. It's the, it's the wider ski made narrow. What, what would I feel like? What are some things you'd say? Oh, I, I'm going to expect you'll come back and say this, Tom, and this. If I say, say we even use like the G, the new Curve 85 versus that the Ranger— what, what are some things, feelings, you know, you would, you would expect people to come back with?

Great, great question. And that, that Ranger 84— and I've got actually, I've got 3 sizes of it here in our demo fleet. I've got the 167 that Tricia's been skiing, and I've got the 176 and the 184. And so I've got all 3 sizes on it. I'm kind of personally in between this 176 and the 180, the 184 in, in that ski. Um, I like this ski in about a 178 to 180, but I'm kind of splitting hairs on that. And people fall in, in between sizes on certain skis. I just happen to here, and I'll just say with that caveat, what I like about the, the, the Ranger 84, that is that ski. And this gets into a question that I know we're going to circle back on later, is what is a good ski that's good, and what's the ski good in the bumps. And people say, I want a ski that's going to help me get better in bumps. And that GT— that, um, that Ranger 84 is one of those skis. And if you don't mind, I'm just going to turn this around here so I can just talk about this ski a little more. We've got some of our test skis here behind us, a full array of skis from a lot of different manufacturers. So, and I've got the Ranger 84 right here. And what I like about this ski is a couple of things, and oh good, I got this pretty accessible, and that is the—

there we go, there's the— so yeah, and just so people can see, this is, this is a visual representation of Phil's narrow ski made wider with the Curve written on it, and the wider ski made narrow in the Black Ranger there.

Exactly, and you can see the difference in the tip shape of these two skis, much more flare here, straighter through here. Same thing in the tail. We've got more taper.

Yeah, you can see that.

And more flare with the curve. Okay. So let's think about what that's going to do when it turns. This is going to be a little more gradual into the turn. This one's gonna be a little bit quicker into the turn. And that tail, because of the flare, is going to come out around a little bit stronger. Now going to the, to your question on the Ranger 84, we also have some rise here in the tip, nice gradual rise here in the tip, and also some rise in the tail if you can see that. Yep, we can. And this is a ski that is really going to help and hold somebody's hand as they want to get better in moguls, and I'm not talking about World Cup zipper line moguls, I mean, that's a completely different sport. I'm talking about you end up at the top of a bump trail and you need to work your way down, and you want to with some confidence, and you want to make the bottom without looking like an idiot. And that's where a ski like this is gonna be really good because we've got some nice gradual rise here that's going to come up on that mogul nice and easy. It's got some flare in— uh, sorry, not much flare in the tail and some rise in the tail, which allows this ski to be worked a little bit. So if you're skiing on top of the bumps and pivoting, pivoting around, coming down the other side, this ski is going to work nicely.

A little more surfier, kind of looks slightly looser. Yeah, that curve's going to require more finesse in your edging, kind of release ability. Like, it's going to catch more times. If you— you'd feel less worried about the catching in the Ranger.

Exactly. And again, flex-wise, a balanced flex, the whole ski bends where so many skis we might see really stiff in the center and just the extremities flexing. This ski is going to bend nicely, so when you're in the troughs coming up, that ski's going to come up gradual for you. It's not going to be very hingy for you, pushing you fore and aft. So they did, they did a really good job. And this is probably Trish's favorite Ranger of all of the Rangers in the collection. Just loves the ski. And she's got this teal one back here, if you can see that over here. I mean, that, that that's her ski. Another point of ref with this ski is we had some of our testers on this ski that they can come here, grab any ski they want to go out, do reviews, that they went out and bought these skis with their own money to have them, which says a lot for a ski. Yeah, when somebody who can ski one of these skis for free will go out and buy a pair for themselves.

Yep. So Phil, I'm going to now say, so Okay, if I'm putting myself like I'm in the shop, Phil's shop, and I'm like, do I get the Curve? Do I get the GT 85, the Curve 85, or do I get the Ranger 84? I'm thinking, okay, well, actually this season I do want to spend a bit more time working in the off-piste and some moguls, and, and then, you know, not meant to be too much snow. So I think I'm gonna go the, the Ranger 84 because of that reason.. And then if my, you know, friend Tom 2 is like, you know what, I'm working on my carving more this season, he might buy the 85, the curve with more flare. And, and so there's a good— probably exact, like, like you said, it's kind of the moguls, off-piste, right, element that steers you towards that narrow wide skis, as you call it.

Yeah. And this is, this is, I think for the East Coast in the U.S., where it tends to be much— we don't get a lot of snow, but we do get the occasional snow. We get the late-day snow that's all piled up around. That's where a ski like this is really good. Still carves well and holds well on firmer conditions, yet if you get into mixed conditions, the power's there for it too. That's where something like this is really, really nice.

Yeah, sorry, I'm really curious about peak skis is— have you got the— can you tell me, like, if— so then I'm like, right, okay, I really like the sound of the Range Ready 4. Is there a peak in that kind of narrow wide, and, and what would it feel different? Because the way it sounds like when I've looked up some videos with Bodhi and heard him talk about it, sounds like it should feel completely different. But I'm kind of like, how could it be that different? So can you help me out with that one?

Sure, and the Peak and Outrange is going to— well, there's, there's two now. There's the Peak 88, which has been in the line since they started. Um, this is the second year for it. I don't happen to have one here. Um, that— it's, it's a really bright blue. I mean, the colors they did this year compared to the first year are very good. Um, actually, there's gonna be a lot of similarities through the Fishers and the Peaks, the way the shape of the ski is. They both have some nice gradual early rise. They don't have a lot of flare at the extremities, so there is some similarities there. Um, one of the things that Bode and Peak are hanging their hat on is their Keyhole technology, which when Bode raced back with Rossignol years ago, the, the 4S, 7S, and such had the Voss plate on it, which was a vibration absorption system on, on the top of that binding. If you want, I can grab one to to show you here, but, um, what he did is he peeled that plate off, and on the top sheet of the metal, actually, that was cut out to accommodate the vibration absorption system. And he felt the ski had a little bit of torsional flex there that allowed that ski to initiate smoothly for him. He brought that over to their Peak collection, uh, and whether it be the 88, 98, 104s, and 110s. They all have that, a couple different constructions in there also with the DAB construction, which are a little bit lighter. And also, which I think is buried here, is the— oh, that's right here— is the new for next year. This is the Peak 78. Oh, so this, this is a new ski for them, and this is another one of those skis that's a narrow-wide ski, and another one of those skis that is going to be good in the bumps for somebody who wants something even a little bit quicker edge to edge in the bumps. It's 78 underfoot. With Peak looking to get into Europe and to make the skis a little more aware there, we know Europe likes a little bit narrower of a ski, and that's where the 78 is going to work well for them. As far as this design on this, um, it's a little bit longer of a turn radius where a lot of the skis like your Curve curves are going to be around a 14 to 15 meter radius, even up into that 178 inches. This one feels closer to 16 to 17 meter radius, so it's a little more gradual in that ski. Again, another all-mountain ski that's going to be a really good mogul ski too for somebody looking to get into some bumps.

Can I ask then, what's been your favorite, uh, narrow wide ski season? What have you just kept going, you know what, I've had just so much fun, you know, on that? Can you, can you, can you put one ski in that, in that position?

It really, really is tough. I'm taking a look around here. I mean, I've been on so much, so much, they start blending in. Um, looking, uh, towards next season in that range, I think this Fischer Ranger 84 is really good in that range. I like the direction of what Vogel's doing with this new, for the 4 radius drive, the new Peregrine here, which actually, that's more of a, that's that wide, that's going in the carving kind of, yeah, that's more in that carving side there. So, but yeah, I would have to say Fischer, even this GT85 from Fischer, even though it's got some flare in it, it can be worked in a lot of conditions. They did a really good job with that, which goes up really— and I've got a cage match coming up against the Atomic, the Q8, uh, the Q9.8 there, the Redster, uh, which is again in that same category, in that mid-80mm range of a ski. I think the, the Stöckli Laser AX and 85 is a really nice ski in that range. Yeah, with a little bit of a gradual rise of a ski.

I think, like you said at the beginning, it's like these days you, you can't get a bad ski. It is just more about knowing a bit more where you're going to ski that ski and your sort of style, and then that narrows it down and, and you're going to be having a good time.

Yeah, and I mean, any of these skis do 9 out of 10 things really well. What are you looking for? What are you willing to give up? Yeah, that's where I, I think there's really, um, as far as in the choosing of the skis, I'd hate to be a consumer out there to buy skis. It's tough. How do you make the decision? And you're always second-guessing yourself in that process. I, I don't envy anybody that way.

Yeah. Hey, all right, awesome. That was, that was really helpful, um, because I was, I was going to switch gears into the the Ski Talk forum world next. Okay, I was thinking, um, but before we do that, I think my takeaways are like when I'm talking to other people now about skis, it would be the 4 things you're testing to be mindful of that. But when you get into these sort of these skis, I think a lot of people are missing this daily driver. Like you're saying, a lot of people are in this bloody 96 and upwards ski and Like, people come to these camps and they, and they're like, oh, I haven't been able to really get better at carving, and I see these videos and photos. It's like, well, you're on the wrong ski. And although, yes, Markus Kasten can rip a turn on a really wide ski, he's been skiing forever on race skis, narrow skis. Anyway, I think it's like, in this daily driver 80-ish range, um, then narrowing it— that's really helpful, narrowing it down to the, to the narrow wide or the wide narrow.

So Yeah, it's really, it's really frustrating, and I, and I don't envy the consumer because this is what they're being sold, is that 90, 95mm plus wide ski. I'm not gonna name the magazine, but there was a publication not too long ago that did an all-mountain segment of a ski— what's the best all-mountain daily driver— and of the 13 skis that they had in that test only 2 were under 90 millimeters underfoot. Everything else was over 90 millimeters. And it's a carton for the horse that the manufacturer— is that what the manufacturers sent them? Is that what they asked for? So that's the difficulty that the consumer unfortunately is left to deal with and pick up these pieces. And that's where I think it's been very difficult for them to make a decision. Now, one of the things I'll plug as far as our reviews, a little bit in that aspect of it, is one of the things that's also different with our reviews is they're not static, is that they're interactive reviews. So anybody could ask any of the questions and test the questions about those skis. What do you think? This is what I'm thinking about. Which one's going to work for, for me? So they can ask them those questions about those skis, which I think is very helpful. And the other difference is, is all of our testers are regular skiers. We're not level 12 PSIA X-Racers that can get on two 2x4s and make them, yeah, make them work. We've got regular skiers that can actually convey the differences in real-world conditions for our readers.

Yeah, yeah, I really appreciate that. I like that fact. Um, so actually, and then I would just add one more thing, okay? Just again, from experience, I've just found, like, I would just encourage people, if you don't have a ski like we're talking about here in that quiver, like, you are really holding back if you want to improve your skiing. Because I just get— yeah, it's just really difficult. Once you get better, sure, you can then expand it, but that ski behind you, those Curves, the Range 84, like like the, the Peak 78 in there, you are going to get better faster. It's just, it's just definitely from experience I've found that. So, um, yeah, awesome. Now, Phil, forums, because eTalk, did it, did it start out a lot with the community forum, or was it just a gear review site first?

Uh, actually, it started going back in the old Epic Ski days. Um, which Epic started around the turn of the century. And I still love saying the turn of the century now, but we're 25 years in. But, um, Tricia was the site manager for that, I was the gear review editor, and we ran that for years under previous ownership. Then Vail came in and bought the sites because they wanted to control anything Epic related in the ski industry. Understandable, that was their trademark for a for a lot of things. So they bought it, they had us on for a while, then we got, we got a phone call one morning, your services are no longer needed by us, which kind of put us, uh, reeling a little bit because this was basically our, our livelihood. Since we were pretty much the content creators on that site, the community rallied around us and said Guys, you need to do your own site. They came up with the name Pugske with our last name being Puglisi. They found us the URL. They bought us the URL. They crowdfunded us from the community to get money together to start the site. One of the members on the site was a web developer, came to us, said, you guys have been giving away your knowledge for too long. Let's build you a site. He built us a site. We had it up and running in 2 weeks. That was in 2015. We evolved on both sites, coexisted for a while, then Vail decided, uh, for whatever reasons to shut down the other site. And then our site did grow a little bit from there. In 2020, through the years, we, we always had Ski Talk at a Higher Level as our tagline. We did some shows as Ski Talk.. And we came to realization, why aren't we SkiTalk? So, and then instead of Pugskeet, so we grew out, grew kind of outgrew the name Pugskeet, and we became SkiTalk. Uh, found the URL, it was available, bought the URL, and then we switched into that. The odd thing in that whole process, uh, for the internet geeks out there, our bounce rate dropped dropped from about 35% down to less than 10%. Bounce rate is somebody comes to your site, looks at it once and leaves. What had happened was a lot of people coming to PugSki looking for pug dogs, looking for an Eastern European site, and that— and once we changed it to SkiTalk, bounce rate just dropped by a third. Oh, but yeah, then we evolved over to SkiTalk.

Uh, but yeah, we're going on 10 9 years, almost 10 years now running, running the site. Yeah, fantastic, fantastic. I was, I was asking you before we started. Yeah, you know, when people communicate over the internet, social media, that sort of stuff, um, sometimes things can get taken out of context and heated and, and that sort of stuff. Yeah, I thought it'd be great since you've been moderating and overseeing forums and that stuff for a long time. Do you have any tips on what you see creates a great forum member and then therefore a great kind of community, online community? Are there things when you communicate that people should consider?

It's tough. I mean, everybody likes to get their opinion out, and some, some people a little more adamant with it than others. They feel a little bit stronger that, and they're unwilling to listen So, I mean, that's a fine line and that's a constant adjusting with people as far as in that. And we do get the pot stirrers and it's something that we don't have time for it. And if we have people that are there just to try to create angst, you're done, you're gone. It's our site. We get to decide who gets to participate. It's a privilege, not a right. So we do do that, and the community also is very protective of it. Also, the longstanding members, the ones that are extremely active since day one, they, they like— they, they've taken ownership of it. And one of the things that we really try to live by, and I try to explain to people over, is we get a lot of questions asked on the site and try to explain to people, when you're answering that question, you're not just answering that person asking the question, you're answering the other thousands of eyes of the people that either, A, might have the same question and they're afraid to ask it or don't know how to ask it, or they might just have that one question. So, there is— we try to be conscious of that with the people too. And treat people the way that you want to be treated. I say to their— say to them online as you would to their face, and don't hide behind just a screen name. Um, and just try to be a little more forthright in the way that you treat people. And I think we've done a pretty good job with that.

Yeah, nice, nice. Yeah, because I think that— I mean, it should almost be something that's taught in schools now. The more we're going to be online. Yeah, I, I think it's a shame that some people do hide behind a different name, sort of an avatar, and don't treat people with the same respect as you would in person. So yeah. Do you have a favorite channel or were you going to say something there?

The one thing that I think is one of the biggest compliments both Trish and I have got is when somebody meets us in person, they say, you're exactly like you are online. And to me, that's That's a big compliment. Yes.

Whether that's good or bad, that's good.

There's no fake persona or whatever.

So exactly, exactly. So just, uh, if someone's not been to SkiTalk, can you give a bit of an overview of some of the discussion channels so people can know what they can talk about in there?

And well, pretty much all things skiing. We have a tremendous resort section. So it's really good if you want to go to, say, a Jackson Hole, an Alta, Squaw Valley, wherever, and you put it out there, I'm going these states, chances are you're going to have somebody to ski with and somebody to show you around the mountain, which is really cool to be able to have access to that local knowledge. We've got a lot of manufacturers' representatives on our site that are there to answer some tough questions about product. We've done a very good job of helping consumers with the access that we have and through some of our high-level members, if they get a problem that they can't get solved, we're able to help with that, whether it be a boot cracking, whether it be a problem with the binding amount, or whatever, whatever the case may be. But also, we've had situations where— don't make your user error a manufacturer's problem because you mismounted a ski or you left your liners out and ripped the tongue out, putting the, the boot on. That's not a manufacturer's fault. And there's a lot of people that are going to call you on that. We'll help you try to get it resolved, but, but we're not going to say no, no, no. The customer is not always right that, that this is their, uh—

that's a great resource. You've got people like, if I wanted to know specifics, if on maybe a binding angle or something from 2020 or something chances are there might be like someone from Fisher that, that will know those numbers in there.

That's, that's in that community. Yeah. And again, I've— there's a lot of searching on there that you can do. Again, if you're looking for that, that delta on a Solomon STH, uh, steel from 2009, we'll have that information. And if it's not there, somebody be able to go into the garage and you see the bindings I have up top here with all the— wow, the history, history of the findings up there. We've got all of that information. If, if we don't have it right there on the site, we've got somebody who can get you that information.

Fantastic. Yeah, I, I've— I, I don't go on there too much, uh, these days, but I've— I used to go on there a bit and it was— it's really interesting. Just, it's a lot of things. I mean, today brand, like that, that binding review part you've done, that is incredible. I think that is so helpful, and, and I'm glad you're on that front and trying to, you know, encourage manufacturers to, you know, get consistency or even just mention it, because I know a lot of people, yeah, just don't know that that's a thing. We—

I've been fortunate to have the ears a lot of product managers, um, and there are a lot of products on the market that I've had direct influence, uh, in the design of that product and changes through the years.

Bill, as a final thing, is there anything more interesting in your SkiTalk garage you want to give a bit of a tour on, of what, what things you use for testing? Or like, because one question was, where do you put all the gear? Like the— it's all the stuff you get. Yeah. Do you— is there anything interesting, first of all, in there, like, that you can show us?

Or— it's a little bit of a mess right now, kind of, kind of between seasons. But I do have all of the attributes for boot fitting. I've got ovens, I've got, um, grinders for them, boot spreaders, all of the tools behind there for that. Um, I work with a lot of the local race teams So I've got all of the different soles for the race boots, for planing boots. I got all that there, a workbench. As far as, again, the bindings, this is all of the looks, pivots through the years. We can come over here and there's some old markers, all my jigs for mounting skis that, that are still in wrappers and might have pulled the bindings off of. Want to come over here?

Got Salomon through the years.

Sweet.

Oh, that is— I love the binding across the top.

I love all those. Or Teskis. And this is before I even get into the museum that's in the house. Okay. Fortunately, I have a wife that has the same passions as I do. But yeah, we, we've got I do a lot of boot fitting here, a lot of specialty work, a lot of canty alignment assessment, um, of boots and working with racers and a lot of the local pros. Uh, they've been coming to me and, um, same thing in the boot sales.

Uh, people— sorry, on that, is— have you got scope if someone watched this and they're like, I want to come and see Phil, where, where are you and can you get some boot work done?

From you, Phil? Yes. Um, yeah, I'm in Northwest Reno. We don't— I don't advertise the boot fitting. Um, it's more word of mouth that we work that way. Um, but yeah, I do have boot fitting as far as you need footbeds, can alignment assessment, punches. I've got the ability of doing all that. So yeah, but we're in Northwest Reno, um, Nevada.

So, and I've had people come from the other side of the country, from other states. They can go on SkiTalk and email—

is it info@skitalk.com? Info or phil@skitalk.com, either one gets me. Um, we got Tricia, who's also a high-level boot fitter too, if they're looking for that woman's touch, um, in the boot fitting. We've got a lot of flexibility there.

So yeah, it's a lot of things as far as helping out people with the boots.

Thank you very much for—

oh, my pleasure. I mean, I was just really— I was like, who could I talk to that would have this like broad expansive view of, of that. And that's, that's you. You've been doing a long time. You don't work for a brand, you know, you just test stuff for people to, to try and, and give your, your opinion on it.

And again, I've got a great history. I can go into every evolution of a ski in the past 50 years and where it started to where it is now. So I've got a great history great history of that, right? Yeah, so if somebody's coming in with an older ski—

yeah, I know, I know, like you said. So people, the way you can utilize Phil's knowledge in a way, and that is SkiTalk, is skitalk.com. And then in the gear, is there a channel called the Gear Reviews?

Yeah, at the top of our page there's Gear Reviews, and we have a, a ski selector in there which you plug in the brands that you're looking at. We've got, I think, 6 or 7 years worth of gear in there. Some attributes that you're looking for, but on that ski selector page, um, and that's a good way to start. And that's what, um, as far as working in that aspect of it. And you have questions on a specific ski, put it in there and you'll get an answer to it from, from either the person that skied that ski or somebody else that might have skied it that might not have a review in there.

But yeah, there's a lot of things. Brilliant, brilliant.

Awesome.

Phil, thank you very much for your time. Thank you, Tom, for reaching out. Yeah, no problem. I, I need to get myself a pair of these Ranger 84s. I'm, I'm sold now. And then the GT85. And the GT85, yes, sweet. I'm gonna get a similar feel to the 78 GT, but just that— like, what would be—

what would you say is— it's gonna be a little more versatile, be a little more of a wide body. They've got, they've got the, um, the 3D radius side on that with— so that works really well in that ski. But it's an amazingly versatile ski for a wide narrow ski.

They did, they did a super job with it. Nice, great. Yeah, I've heard that quite a bit already. So okay, another one for my list. Okay, thanks a lot, Phil. Okay, Tom.