Pardot vs HubSpot - Salesforce-HubSpot History, platform comparison and migration framework

Hello and welcome to Markle's webinar on Pardot vs HubSpot, why teams are switching and how to do it right straight off the bat. I know it's called Marketing Cloud Account Engagement and I will be referring to it as Pardot throughout this, throughout this webinar. So let me just make sure you can see my screen. If you can, then please put it in the chat. If you can't then, then let me know as well. Perfect. So I'm going to jump straight in. I'm Tom, I'm founder and CEO of Markloud, very certified in Salesforce and HubSpot. So I've got a lot of experience in Pardot Marketing, Cloud, sales cloud and also HubSpot. So should be in a good position to, you know, give a lot of good information today and hopefully you get some value from it. But please feel free to put questions in the chat in the Q and A section because there will be a Q and A at the end of the webinar so I'll be able to hopefully be put on the spot and answer any of those difficult questions. So who are Markleoud? Markle are the Salesforce and HubSpot marketing automation experts. We have worked with lots of different clients, lots of different sizes, lots of different to a high standard across the globe. So it isn't just UK and I, we work with the us, Canada and lots of European countries as well. We've collated all of that knowledge that we've got or collected over the years and put it into our proprietary ROI framework, which is essentially a framework to help you get more ROI out of whichever platform you're using, if it's Salesforce or HubSpot or sometimes both. And we also have the ISO 27001 certification, which is really, really important because we work with data day in, day out. Now what we're going to go through today is a little bit of history because I think that's quite important. To bring us up to speed on how we got here in terms of our HubSpot Salesforce environment, why teams are switching to HubSpot and I'll also touch on why users might want to stay. I'll give you a platform comparison so I'll put both systems side by side so you can make an informed decision yourself as to what's best for you. And then assuming you are going to migrate, whatever direction it might be, we'll give you a five step migration framework to help you move seamlessly and to not make the mistakes that other companies make. And we'll go through some common pitfalls as well. So very briefly, very quickly, just an official partner statement which is important for trust. We are a Salesforce and HubSpot partner and our role is to provide impartial advice to help you, our priority, the clients to make informed decisions about what's best for your particular use case. So whilst this webinar is going to focus on HubSpot and why people are moving, we will advise you on whichever platform you used, providing it's best, some common pitfalls as well. So very briefly, very quickly, just an official partner statement which is important for trust. We are a Salesforce and HubSpot partner and our role is to provide impartial advice to help you. Our priority, the clients to make informed decisions about what's best for your particular use case. So whilst this webinar is going to focus on HubSpot and why people are moving, we will advise you on whichever platform you use, providing it's best for your needs. So with that said, we'll jump into the history. So, I don't think everyone knows this, but Salesforce had a really, really good relationship with HubSpot back in the sort of 2010s, and in fact they actually invested in HubSpot and HubSpot even used sales Cloud as their CRM of choice. Shortly after Salesforce tried to buy HubSpot and it's reported that Brian Halligan rejected that offer, which prompted Salesforce to go and buy Exact Target. Now, it just so happened that Exact Target had bought Pardot a year prior. So this is why Salesforce have two marketing platforms. They have Pardot, they have Marketing Cloud Engagement, which is Exact Target and that is, that is essentially the reason why. So HubSpot then got competitive and they said, right, we're going to build a CRM. And their approach was to code or build their code base themselves and build out the HubSpot platform. So this is why, you know, they can bring updates so quickly. They are always sort of innovating on a regular basis. It's because they've built the platform outwards themselves, whereas Salesforce has grown by acquisition. So if you look at Informatica, if you look at Slack, if you look at Tableau, Exact Target, they kind of grow by acquisition up until recently last year, where Salesforce then decided to build their own marketing automation platform and that was their first attempt to build their own tool built on Data cloud and bring customers closer to the Salesforce ecosystem. To visualize that this diagram is really basic but quite important for a Couple of reasons. First one being if you can see the padlock, that's essentially a connector. So marketing Cloud connects into sales cloud via MC Connect. Pardot connects into Sales Cloud via a connector, but so does HubSpot. So largely HubSpot, par, Marketing Cloud can do similar things because they're all integrated and they're all connected into sales cloud. The difference here is marketing cloud growth in advance, where it's built on the salesforce platform and you're within that ecosystem. There's no need for a connector because it's built on the platform. Now there's pros and cons to this because if you think today marketing teams are the decision makers for what marketing automation platform they use, once this goes inwards, it can then move into the sort of operational IT budgets. Depending on the organization, that could be a good thing because it comes out of the marketing budget. It could be a bad thing because the marketing have less control. Now if the organization questions, you know, the integration between PAR and sales cloud, we can kind of say it's a similar story. HubSpot connects in in exactly the same system architecture way as Pardot does. So why are teams migrating and considering HubSpot? There's a number of reasons and I'll run through them. First of all is Pardot has very, very little development in the last couple of years. And I see some comments in the chat talking about the email builder, which seems to be a common theme. The email builder hasn't been touched for a long time, for example, and that is a big pain point for some users. Some things are very good though, to balance this out, for example, business units. I think that's a really good system architecture, but I'll touch on that a little bit more in a second. Some customers are seeing the true value of marketing cloud advanced, but what's happening is companies are actually using this as a kind of wider review. They're not blindly going in or blindly making decisions anymore because budgets are quite tight at the moment. Which means that rather than marketing teams saying we need to go inwards, the companies are saying, well no, you need to compare it to other platforms. And sometimes price plays a part, but sometimes vendor lock in plays a part as well. Companies are a little bit wiser to price increases, to how fast AI is moving and the price considerations there. Some companies are unsure about credits and how they work. So that fear of vendor lock in is quite a big thing for some organizations. I talked about how marketing teams can own the decision. So if it's external with a connector, it's kind of the marketing department's decision making. If it's just something that plugs in because that's kind of how the business sees it. Plug that one out, plug this one in, no problem. It's your budget. Some teams are looking to have data cleansing and enrichment sort of baked into the product that they're using. They're seeing other platforms and seeing how far they're coming along and they want to have those tools on their platform because it makes their life so much easier. So enrichment is such a big one because data is the foundation to be able to use AI and all these other features. And of course reporting, there's a desire to use AI without the need for a computer science degree. That's really, really important. So ease of use. How easy is it to get an agent up and running? How easy is it to plug it into AN LLM like ChatGPT or Claude and is that even possible? So a lot of these questions are now coming up as kind of requirements as opposed to nice to have. For balance though, why would teams stay on Pardot now? There's a number of reasons why you might have a setup that is already deeply integrated. It's all working really well and it's talking to CRM whichever one it is normally sales cloud and you will be having a good time with how it's currently set up. You might be pushing the system as well. You might be using engagement Studio scoring and grading, B2B campaign attribution modeling. Although I will say I've not seen a huge number of companies do this amazingly well normally. That's why they need our help to be able to set up campaign attribution modeling. But I think I have seen one or two in my time, budget considerations and timing. So it might well be that your contract ends in two years time. So we're not going to absorb the costs today. We're going to consider moving when the time is right, nearer to renewal time. As I've said, business units, that's a big one. I really like the system architecture. It's also possible to do in HubSpot in terms of having multiple HubSpot portals. But I do think the PAR business unit structure, especially for enterprise level, as being quite a nice and strong solution. It's also a path to marketing cloud on core with data cloud and agent force. If you wanted to sort of hold Pardot and keep things ticking along whilst you sort of transition over and similarly you might just be happy as things are and waiting to be pushed instead of jumped. I'm going to say anything more about that. I don't know any inside info, but that might be a thing that people think. So my job now, as in terms of platform comparison, is to present you with some information from both platforms for you to make your own mind up about what is right for you and your requirements. So hopefully I do a good job of conveying this. So I've picked out a couple of things, first one being visitor tracking. So Pardot can track visitors. Now this is on the assumption that Pardot, the Pardot cookie has been placed. So you've accepted cookies and you've got your visitor tracking and it will look at the IP and it will try to find out what the company name is and it gives you this, this dashboard. How this is done in HubSpot is slightly different. So it will identify who has hit the site. You can set up your ICP in HubSpot so you can basically say for us it's any Pardot users. For example, we might say if the company uses par, they're our target market and it will show up in this list of who they are, what pages they've looked at. And we can also enrich them. So we can enrich that company and put it into our database and maybe start some account based marketing. It's also got a nice funnel approach, so it will give you the total addressable market based on your icp. It will then tell you how many of those have viewed your website and then of those, how many are in your database. So you've got this really nice rapport and clear view of who to go after. You know, we work with some clients, especially in pharmaceuticals, where the total addressable market is quite small. So you need to be a lot more strategic in how you find data and approach it. Touching on some of the comments in the chat, which is quite clear, the email builder is a big point of contention. Here's a short video. This is the PAR email builder. So the original one anyway, the what you see is what you get editor. Now the pros of this is that if you are a developer it is very good, you can make it pixel perfect, but you do need to know HTML and CSS code. You know, within the actual builder itself. You can move things up and down, you can delete things, you can duplicate them, but realistically you're going to need to know code to have a really good, solid, robust email template. Now you can do litmus testing, you can do ad testing, all the normal email marketing things that you'd expect, but you would probably need a HTML and CSS developer to get the most out of that builder. Jump over to HubSpot's email builder. Slightly different in terms of approach. It's very drag and drop. But one of the cool things that I like is the AI being baked in. So I created a HubSpot Salesforce image just for this demo. This is a demo Org. You can fix the branding, you can make the sections how you want them and change the GDPR consent or GDPR compliant footer if you like. But it's very drag and drop. You can add buttons, you can add social icons, you can add dividers and you can make different columns, etc. You can even build dynamic content or smart content within the canvas here. And I'll talk about that a little bit more in a minute, but as you can see, it's a little bit more friendly for the traditional marketer who doesn't like or know how to code. Now this is one I've added in as an extra because I quite like the feature. There isn't a comparative tool in par for this, but I want to show you it anyway because I think it's quite nice. It's called Content Remix. So you can grab your marketing content or collateral. Could be a PDF, could be a blog, could be anything. And you can put it into a pool and use AI to produce more content off the back of it. And even better, so that content is editable. So this just created an email. I can then jump in and then start amending the images and the content etc. And I can go back, I can create social posts, I can create blogs, I can create all this, these different assets using that source material, which I think is really, really good. And I'd probably recommend that, you know, this might get you 80% of the way there. It's not going to be, you know, social ready straight away. You would still want a human to then give that the sort of the vetting it needs before it goes public. But it does speed up small teams sort of productivity and efficiency, which I think is really nice. Onto campaign creation, there's two very different approaches here. Neither are wrong, but they're very different in terms of the kind of approach. So Hardot's campaign creation process relies completely on Salesforce campaigns. Now it's a very data entry approach or a data entry driven approach. If you fill in the information, you'll get lots of data off the back of it. Sometimes marketers don't fill it in, but they should because then it will produce nice reports. And you'll get the information you need. Now, the cool thing about Salesforce campaigns is the hierarchy. And that's quite important later on for reporting when you start to look at what's working, what's not working, working. And you tend to align that with your business objectives and organizational structure. And assuming you do that, you can then lead your business to campaign attribution modeling. And it's all very, very important. But contrast this with how HubSpot approaches campaigns, and it's very, very different. In my opinion, the HubSpot campaign creation process is very much or more aligned with a traditional marketer approach. So this big image here is a canvas. It's just a view of creating a campaign. This is the sort of canvas view. You can have a calendar view, a kanban and a list view. And what you would do, I mean, you could drag in emails, sms, video, all sorts of content into this canvas and create it as your campaign plan. Now, you can also add in the campaign brief who you're targeting. You can add in some images and documents to basically steer the AI to then produce more assets, just like in that content remix that I showed you. So, very, very nice approach to building a campaign as an umbrella. You can build a campaign like a marketer. You can collaborate with your team, which I think is a really nice touch. You can add comments, sticky notes, send things for approval. It's quite a nice collaborative approach, especially for remote teams. And there's a lot of remote teams nowadays. And campaign attribution is by design. You create the campaign first and your assets underneath it. And then subsequently, later on, all of the associated data will roll up into that campaign, which is quite nice and logical if you think about it. We still do a lot of work customizing reporting and customizing how marketers need to see ROI in, in HubSpot or Salesforce. But this is a great place to start and I think this is really good. So on that note, then, campaign attribution modeling, how do the two platforms treat this and how do they do it differently? So within PAR Dot, you will lean on data going from pardot to sales cloud to tableau. And within Tableau you'll have an app called B2B Market analytics, which is what that image is on the left. Now, the reports are really good, they're interactive, you can drill into the data, but it really does require that you have a solid campaign hierarchy, number one. And number two, you need to be using opportunity contact roles, because if you don't, then data can be missing from the first touch. Even Touch Last Touch and custom attribution models. If you don't trust that that process is being followed, then you need to lean on AI Einstein, which is a different tier. So really, really powerful, really good, but relies on a lot of process. Similar story to HubSpot. If you don't, if you don't do the thing, if you don't follow the process, then you won't get the data you want. So process is really, really important. The thing I like about the HubSpot one is the, obviously the campaign canvas, because everything's associated to campaign from the outset. But then also there's attribution for contacts and other objects, not just revenue. So if you meet a really good introducer, for example, if it's financial services, maybe there's a broker, particular broker that now sends you a lot of deals, you'd want to know how you met that broker. Was it an event, was it an ad, was it social, was it Google? You can actually figure those things out with these different types of attribution reports, which I think is really powerful. Further to that, HubSpot's very capable and very powerful when it comes to UTMs. So you can get really, really granular with your reports and you can go really, really in depth, providing you actually use UTMs and that's part of your, your normal process. This was nice to have. I kind of added this in. This is somewhat preference, but also kind of, you know, just illustrating the different approaches to the platform. So Pardot on the left, you've got your sort of fixed, rigid view. Some people like it, some people don't. Sometimes the custom field section gets a bit too long if it doesn't get cleaned up. I quite like the insight section because of the scoring categories, but it is what it is. You can't Change that in HubSpot though. You've got a very, very customizable, flexible view, which is actually, it can be really, really good. It's more of a CRM view, but for marketers, when you're marketing to sort of individuals or when you're looking at the individual record, and it also gives you this AI. Again, AI is baked into the whole platform. It gives you this AI summary on the top right as well. So your records are actually, you know, being being summarized in a roundabout way by the AI, which you can ask a question, et cetera. And back to my original point a couple of slides earlier, you can enrich this data. It's just a couple of clicks away and you can start to fill in the gaps, whether it's the information about the company, about the individual. But you've got that enrichment process built in. If you remember the original diagram about how things connect in with the connectors, you need both systems achieve similar things just with a slightly different view or a take on how to present it. So on the left hand side you've got Salesforce, that's Pardot and Salesforce. You can put in all the engagement history, you can put in all of the clicks over time, what content they've engaged in, scoring categories, etc. On the right hand side you have the HubSpot component in sales Cloud. Again, you can put in all the activity, you can see all of the related objects in both systems. You can trigger what you need to happen, you can add them to lists, you can put them through automation, you can do what you need to do basically. So it's quite similar in that regard, but there might be a preference based on UI or just general behavior. So, moving to the future, moving to AI agents. So PAR doesn't necessarily have agents per se, but it does have some level of capability within Agent Force. So again you're kind of jumping over to Data Cloud and then Agent Force and there are some actions that it can perform. And if you look at the best thing about AgentForce, in my opinion is the customization of it. However, a caveat to that is you will need to know Apex and you will need to be able to create those actions to do what you need to do. Building an agent for Pardot or whatever marketing activity you have so very open kind of approach. It's kind of giving you the creativity and the, the, the freedom to do what you need to do, which contrasts with HubSpot. Now HubSpot agents are kind of pre built to some degree. There's a lot of options, there's a lot of agents that already exist, for example social posting agent, there's a blog research agent, a company research agent, and the majority of this is prompt engineering, which is far more within a marketing person's skill set than Apex. For example, I wouldn't expect a marketer to know Apex. So contrasting approaches, but still very, very, very powerful. I quite like the out of the box agents because you can get up and running very, very quickly within HubSpot. And here's just my quick list of things that HubSpot can do that PAR can't. Because if you think about the differences in development, HubSpot's come a really, really long way, especially on the marketing side. So just a couple of things that I Like, I mean if you went to the mark cloud website now, you'd see a pop up if you haven't clicked it already and it invites you to the webinar. So we actually drove a fair few registrations for this webinar using the CTA pop ups. The smart content or dynamic content based on list membership for me is really, really powerful. If you imagine someone goes onto your pricing page on the website, you can create a list of those people and dynamically change emails based on those pricing page visits. So I think that that's a really nice, nice approach to personalization. If you think about how traffic to websites is generally on the decline, the visitors that actually now land on your website are worth so much more because it means that they've gone through some more steps, gone through or skipped past AI recommendations to get to the website. They're probably more likely to convert. A big one, surprisingly, is actually how you actually use the platform. So managing all form submissions in one place in one workflow, it's actually quite a big USP for some companies. If you think, you know, we've seen some part users have over 100 forms in their account now if they have a completion action to notify someone across all of those hundred forms and I have seen something like that, but in the past it means you have to go through every single form just to update that completion action. Whereas in HubSpot you can go to one workflow, you change one thing and then it's changed across the board. So it's a much nicer, quicker, easier way of managing, say a simple process. The social side's really good. There's the posting and listening and there's also the social agent, the mobile app, pretty good business card scanner. There's also a recorder if you're for in person meetings, for transcribing, you can take card payments via email. There's a calendar booking form. If you didn't want to use a standard form, you can have a, you can link it to someone's calendar. Just simply have a calendar booking slot to skip a couple of steps. And there's nothing more annoying than going back and forward on email saying what time are you free managing ads. This is quite a big one. So especially with the recent news that Salesforce are deprecating or retiring Salesforce Marketing Cloud Ad Studio, that's going to no longer be a thing. They're going to push people towards data cloud ads, which again very capable, very good. But if you're not interested in data cloud then this could be a Consideration, you know, move to HubSpot to manage your ads because if datacal is not the direction of travel, it makes sense. Third party integrations. HubSpot's very big on that. It integrates with the large majority of things. I won't go through many of them because there's a lot and the marketplace is kept up to date quite frequently. There's a really, really good community of people, people building, building apps and other things. Cool. So five step framework for migration. Just some tips and guidance here. So things to think about. If you are to migrate, first thing is auditing your current account. So you really want to understand why you're doing what you're doing. Why are you moving? Why are processes in place? Because it could be that you have a process and you were led by the technology at the time as opposed to actually wanting that specific thing to happen. And that discovery phase is so important because then you can start to make things better in the new world, in the new platform, you need to define your objectives. You should start with an MVP so you don't bite off more than you can chew. You're starting with a real basic goal where you understand what success is, what failure is. That's very important. Allowing for crossover time, you know, if it's par.HubSpot, you're looking at maximum three months. So as long as you've got that window of time, you should be good to go to allow for that crossover time. Clean the data, don't lift and shift dirty data. Because if you want to start using AI features, you can't have bad data. Understand what CRM you're going to use. In some migrations, they go the whole way. They move from Salesforce entirely over to HubSpot. Some teams are going over from Pardot to Marketing Hub but still maintaining Sales Cloud as their CRM. So in that instance, how are things going to look? How are you going to set up the integration? Is it going to be the same with that connector approach? And if so, you need to map that out on planet. Think about custom objects, training the team and building a roadmap. So once we're on the platform, what are we going to do next and how are we going to make sure we keep pushing forwards to do what we need to do now, the common pitfalls to avoid. There's only four. Trying to do everything at once is a big one. So migrations can become quite overwhelming. There's lots of moving parts. You still have your BAU to do your day job, so make sure that you're either leaning on a partner and keeping things simple, keeping things achievable is quite important to stick to MVP and take things in small steps. You should always bring your team along with you. So it's a big decision and you don't want people falling back into bad habits. You don't want people to just repeat the same practices in the old system in the new because that could lead to again bad data, bad processes, lack of attribution and that type of thing. So invest in onboarding, Lean on a partner and make sure it goes smoothly, underestimating the time needed so that window of time to be able to actually successfully move forwards. Make sure you plan for it. Build in buffer time. Use a partner. You're getting the gist of where I'm going with this. Lean on a partner and pitfall 4 avoid a lift and shift. So don't just copy and paste what you had before because you'll have the same problems. Use it as an opportunity to make everything better and set yourself up for success moving forwards and use a partner because that's the best way to get the most out of the platform. So on that note, if you want to speak to us about your tech stack then please do scan the QR code. Speak to me on LinkedIn. You can visit the website. Lots of different ways to get in touch with us, but please do speak to us for a no obligation chat. We'll be more than happy to speak about Salesforce or HubSpot, but be great to get your thoughts on today. I will jump to the Q and A. Now I have seen there's a few things from people so if you have any questions on the back of that, please add it in the in the chat. So we've got a lot of comments about the email builder. We have a comment about Pardot being behind all the other marketing automation platforms and that's that's probably true. There's not been too much development on Pardot for a long time. Someone's saying it's massively clunky. Heard that a lot. Lack of support. Pardot actually used to have one of the best live chat supports and it was so good that lots of Pardot users said there's no way this can last because the live chat team were just so good. And they were right. It didn't last forever. Someone's asked is Content Remix available within specific version level of HubSpot? So yeah, it's part of Content Hub. So I mean I don't know if you use HubSpot already, but if you do, then please speak to your ae. But it is part of the Content Hub and I think there's an addition where you can have Marketing Hub with Content Hub, which essentially means you just get the whole marketing suite with the content pieces. But Content Remix is part of that Content Hub and it's really good. So does the HubSpot email builder offer the same level of coding as Par Classic Email builder? So yes and no. Yes, you can code custom HTML components, definitely. You can still use HTML, but you wouldn't necessarily go for the whole HTML end to end, if that makes sense. Primarily because it's just way easier to use the drag and drop functionality. We do have a question on. I'm going to skip to the BTMA one because I like these ones, they're quite difficult. So what is your feeling about the strength of HubSpot and Tableau for reporting? So, good question. Tableau is just known for being amazing at reporting and I think the key thing here is understanding where your data sits. So for example, if you're using Pardot, that data needs to be reachable by Tableau, and that's kind of the reason why BTPMA was, was created to be able to sort of reach those data sets and then convey the data. However, in some instances data can be missing. You have to consider the time lag and that there's differences there. HubSpot's very good and there is a lot of deep customization. And from a marketing perspective, I would probably say for marketing specific data, if you're using HubSpot, it's excellent. If you're on Tableau, you're probably using it not just for marketing data, we're using it for wider business data in which it's very, very good at, you know, conveying that information. So it would be interesting to have a chat to talk about, talk about that and look at that in more detail. Hopefully that was a good enough answer to satisfy that question. So one of the big issues with the newer Pardot builder is that the modules aren't customizable, so you can't save branded modules. Does this differ in HubSpot? Yes, it does. You actually one of the first steps of setting up HubSpot is that you would set the branding. So in that example I gave, where you're using the AI functionality to build templates, you would actually, you could just lean on the branding that you've already set with your hex codes and, and logos etc, and the AI would just build it with those in mind. So it kind of saves the brand for you and similar in that canvas as well. You can set the the branding in there as well. Hopefully that answers your your question. Is there an appetite from Salesforce to get Pardot to a level similar to HubSpot? No, there's not. You can probably expect Pardot not to be developed any further. What's going to happen is it will go more towards Encore. So essentially I'd probably say that if you're on Pardot, you've got what you've got what you've got at this point and you'll be moving towards Marketing Cloud Advanced, because that's where all the innovation is going to be. It's built on Salesforce and they're basically building that out as opposed to Pardot. Quite a good question here. So how would you justify the high cost for HubSpot versus Pardot? So probably one to take offline because obviously partners don't tend to get involved in Salesforce's pricing. However, they are similarly priced and it just depends on the level of discount that you may have got at the time. I'll stop there before I get in trouble. So what's this one? So, SQL Automations, based on scoring and grading AI, how is AI accounted for in HubSpot and Salesforce? Are you able to elaborate? I'm not 100% sure I understand. I'll come back to that one. How do you feel about HubSpot as a replacement for Salesforce for the CRM portion? I've only been exposed to those who use HubSpot for marketing and Salesforce for the rest. So it depends, it depends entirely on the business and processes and way of working and operational structure. So it's one to be, to be mindful of. Because obviously if you've got a lot built on Salesforce, if you have a complex sales process and it requires a sort of deep level of customization, then you probably end up staying on Salesforce. However, you know, what we've seen is that HubSpot can more than handle the majority of sort of standard business cases. So it just completely depends on the use case. So it's hard to give a sort of blanket, broad answer for that one. But yeah, we've seen a lot, a lot of companies switch from Pardot to HubSpot and maintain that sales cloud integration. Sometimes the reasoning for that is, as I sort of said in the webinar, whereby marketing users don't have the authority to make that decision. So they've got control over the tool that connects into Sales Cloud, but they don't necessarily have the authority to say, right, we're moving Sales cloud over to HubSpot. And that's often why you'd see that scenario where HubSpot links into sales Cloud, because just the way the budgets work and the authority works, if that makes sense. So, yes, thank you for elaborating. So context here is we pass prospects to sales teams based on scoring and grading qualifications. That's great. I would just like to get insight into how this would function in HubSpot. Perfect. So to answer that question, it's a similar, similar story. So in Pardot, we've got scoring and grading. Scoring is how interested a prospect is in you. Grading is how interested you should be in them. Now, in HubSpot, there's a similar thing. There's scoring and fit, but then also there's a third score and it blends the two together. So it's. It's basically using the score and the fit to come up with a new metric to say, overall, here's another number out of, say, 100 to then go, this is how much this person fits. It's just a different way of doing it. So there's three metrics instead of two because it blends it. And you can calculate how weighted. You want that to calculate. How does HubSpot handle form handlers? So we use Gravity forms for form handlers. Does HubSpot have functionality related to this? Yes, it does. So you could do that. My recommendation would be to use HubSpot forms because they're quite intuitive, the behavior's really nice. You can make them sort of behave how you want to and slide across, and they're quite good. And the implementation is actually better because Pardot uses an iframe method and HubSpot uses a script method. And obviously that's a better way of implementing forms. On the website, there's another one. So does HubSpot integration disconnections between Salesforce better than PAR? So is the. The connector better or worse than par? So back to that original diagram. I wouldn't say it's better or worse. I'd say it's very, very capable. Now, the integrations, any integration needs to be maintained. In Pardot, you have sync errors. In HubSpot you have sync errors. So it's all about how you set that connection up, which is really, really important, and how you plan on maintaining it moving forward. If you're creating more custom objects in Sales Cloud, it's exactly the same story. As you would behave in PAR and HubSpot, you would need to connect them up and do what you need to do. So I wouldn't say it's better or worse because it's kind of the same architecture. It's just a connector in and the connector's pretty good due to the history of the two companies. Amazing. And I have a ton of use cases and questions. Love to run them through with your team. So, yeah, we'll take your take your calendar link and we will reach out to you after the webinar. Do we have any other questions? If not, then thank you very much. Thanks for joining. Hopefully this was helpful. If you would like to reach out, then please do. We'll be more than happy to have a chat about your tech stack, about what your your plans are for the next year or two. But yeah, thanks for, thanks for turning up. It.