In this interview, Tiago explains how he leveraged his "second brain"—a personal knowledge management system—over a decade to address a mysterious chronic throat pain that began at age 22. He outlines three distinct phases: (1) using the system as an administrative hub for medical records, doctor notes, invoices, and treatment instructions; (2) turning the second brain into an experimental lab, planning and tracking diet, lifestyle, and symptom experiments in line with the Quantified Self movement; and (3) adopting expressive writing and reflective practices inspired by Dr. John Sarno’s mind‑body theory, using journaling, blog posts, and year‑end reviews to surface emotional pain that manifested as physical symptoms. The conversation then shifts to broader themes of creativity in digital tools, questioning the left‑brain/right‑brain dichotomy, and discussing habits that protect creative flow—such as turning off the computer, moving the body, and deliberately translating real‑world observations into the digital second brain. Tiago emphasizes that a second brain should be an experimental, expressive space rather than a rigid productivity system.
Chapters
Who is going to break the ice? Go for it, Tomas.
Hey, Thiago. Hey, everyone.
Hey.
I was wondering, how did you use your second brain 10 years ago for coming across your health issue that you have in those days?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks for the question. So for anyone who doesn't know, my, my kind of original use case, you know, building a second brain, especially 10 years ago, was not an easy thing to do and was not a normal thing to do. And so usually I find people who create these sorts of systems have a kind of pressing issue, either a problem that they're trying to resolve or say a big goal or project they're trying to take on. And for me, that was this kind of mysterious, unexplained health issue that started when I was about 22, I think, which was basically just like a numbness and then pain and tension in the right side of my throat, like right here. I'm actually about to publish. I get this question so often 'cause I sort of mention it in the Building a Second Brain book almost in passing, but then I don't fully kind of follow up at the end and like complete the story. And so everyone's like, well, what happened? Like, how did that, how did that end up? So I'm about to publish a blog post that's, that's like very extensive where I just detail that whole story, like the whole journey that I went on, all the things I tried, the, the insights that I had. And so that's coming soon. I think it might even be coming Tuesday. Is that right, Julia? The Unspeakable Pain one. On Tuesday, we have the 10 transformative, most transformative books. Oh, yeah. And then 2 weeks later, the Unexplainable Pain. Okay, so in 2 and a half weeks, it's coming. But to answer your question, the TL;DR version, Tomasflores, is— so it's funny, even with that one that one project, and it really was a project, my use of my second brain changed over time. Initially, it was like medical records, you know, it's like, it's like, okay, I was seeing many different doctors over years. Every doctor was triggering, if you, if you know anything about the US medical system, a cascade of forms and notifications and insurance forms and bills and invoices. And then on top of that, every doctor was telling me things like, do this, don't do that, watch out for that. Let me know if this happens. Like, it's a, it's an absolutely mind-numbing amount of information that is dropped on you when you have a chronic condition, which is the worst possible time to have information dumped on you because you're already suffering. It's like completely crazy. And so initially it was just like, it was just like very, very like administrative. It was like I was my own secretary. Here's the, you know, like every doctor had their own folder, the notes from that doctor, you know, a mix of different invoices and bills and then like notes from the appointments. From there it shifted more into experiments, right? Because, 'cause oftentimes the doctors tell you things like, hey, try not eating these foods because maybe the problem that you're having is acid reflux, right? Well, I don't know, I don't know how other people do this, but to me that's, that's a full-fledged experiment that you have to, like, think about and plan. You have to, like, write out what are the foods I'm going to avoid, right? What are substitutes for those foods? What period of time am I not going to eat those foods? How often and how am I going to check in as to how it's like— it's like a whole— it's a whole experiment. So, so the second phase was a lot more things like that, like tracking. This was when I got really into the Quantified Self movement. The quantified self movement is all about like analyzing yourself, tracking yourself, tracking how you feel, how you function, your symptoms. And then the third era, the third phase, the third era was much more about— I mean, what I eventually discovered through a book called— there's a book called The Divided Mind. It's called The Divided Mind: The Epidemic of Mind-Body Disorders., which was probably the single most helpful book that I found because it basically said it's by this, this guy, Dr. Sarno, who has basically developed a whole methodology, a whole theory that many chronic conditions from back pain to carpal tunnel syndrome to all sorts of things are essentially psychosomatic, which is not to say they're not real. They're very real, but they're essentially like starting in the mind. They're generated by the mind. And it's incredible because he basically said, like, I'll summarize the book for you. The main takeaway from the book is that these symptoms are created by the mind as a distraction to distract yourself from emotional pain. That's the takeaway. You have anger, you don't want to feel the anger, and so your body starts making your foot hurt. And this sounds so almost like too simple to be true, right? Or, you know, you have, I don't know, unresolved trauma towards your parents. It's too painful to feel that. And so you start, you know, having migraines. You have, you know, some sadness that you're not processing. You don't want to feel it. It's too hard to feel. And so your back starts hurting. And the solution, the treatment, which even Dr. Sarno admits sounds almost too good to be true, is to express the pain. Is to just write it, mostly write about it, read about it, write about it, talk about it, just bring it to the surface. And so that was the third phase of my second brain usage, which was just trying to get out. And it's, you know, it's a lot of stuff. It's writing about my past. I've written a lot of blog posts just about my past, trying to understand my past. It's journal entries. It's like reflective exercises. It's year-end reviews. It is my blog writing where I'm actually you know, working through and trying to integrate more intellectual ideas, all these different ways of trying to express, basically trying to express myself, which was in opposition to, you know, keeping everything inside and just like pushing it down, was, was the thing that actually worked, incredibly enough. Which I know sounds ridiculous, it sounds too simple to be true, and maybe even sounds insulting. If you are, you know, feeling very visceral pain in your body, you're like, can't be can't be that simple that I just need to express what is inside. But I found that, that that was the most effective thing and continues to be the most effective thing. And that's, that's sort of the 3 phases, the 3 seasons that I've used my second brain to, to resolve this, this health issue.
And in what I see is from the beginning of your second brain, it has always been a motto of it to experiment. And to express with.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, it's, it's a place to experiment, to, yeah, to experiment is a great way of putting it. You know, like it's, it's funny because we have so many online platforms now, you know, the average person uses 2 or 3, 2 or 3 dozen different tech, you know, tools, but how many of them are designed to inspire creativity? Like, honestly, creativity. Like, you might think of, like, you know, the creative, the so-called Creative Suite. Oh my God. Entering freaking Photoshop is like, kills my creativity instantaneously. Like, there's, there's no less creative environment than the so-called Adobe Creative Suite, right? How many of those platforms are freeform? You can do whatever you want, right? Whatever you want. How many of them are completely private? How many of them are ones that only you control? Hardly any. Digital Notes is like the only one that I know of. How about you, Tomas? How are you? Are you also using your second brain for experiments?
Yeah, I am in this phase of my second brain. I am experimenting a lot with all my projects, connecting all the notes. But in the first time when I just started with my second brain, it was more the registration, just take notes and just jot everything down and not connecting anything. But I am starting to see the experiments and to connect the little subtleties of the real life, the real interaction with people and with everything around. And it's how I— one question that I like to have is how can I bring that creativity from real world into the virtual world so I can continue with that in my second brain?
It's an excellent question. It's an excellent question. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's— it's not— that's not widely done because I think, I think most people when they use any technology, they go into their left brain kind of work mindset, work mode, or like analytical mode, which is one reason why so many people turn to paper notebooks or paper in general or physical tools, Post-its in general, when they want to be creative. I just don't think that necessarily has to be the case. Like, who said everything digital has to be left-brained and everything physical has to be right-brained? Like, that's an artificial, you know, what's the word, dichotomy.
Yeah. And one thing that is fun about it, it's how the time itself works differently when working in the virtual world and in the real world. Because being in front of a screen like this, makes the brain, the first, my first brain, work in a different way and a different setting. So I can perceive the time passing different when I'm working either with logical or analytical way inside my computer.
Totally, totally. Yeah. So it's up to you to create the environment and the constraints and the habits and the environmental cues. So that even when you're on a computer, you can be creative and spontaneous and open-minded and all these things.
Yeah, and how not to let all the productivity systems and workflows eat all the creativity when working on it.
So that's a great challenge. Absolutely. What's working for you these days?
On that, these days is, uh, turning off my computer. It's just, I know what I need to work when I go into rehearse. It's okay, I need to work in this thing and this thing when I really I don't really need to stop making anything, any progress, quote unquote progress in the productivity, in my productivity system, in my second brain. I just turn off the computer and say, okay, I need to move my body to be in the present, to be with the noises that are around, just going back to those little subtleties, those inputs that come from the real world so I can translate it into my body and then translate it into my thinking through my second brain.
I love it. Yeah, I love it. Awesome. Okay, thank you, Tomas.
Thank you too, and hope you're doing well in this year in Mexico.
