Are We There Yet?

I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside. I'm a clinical psychologist, I'm a mom of three, and I'm on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children. Okay, everyone, I have exciting news. My book is out. And in thinking about how to really bring the book alive on this podcast, I kept coming back to what inspired the book in the first place. So for the next couple weeks, I'm going to do a deeper dive with, well, many of you, the listeners who have called in. I just know you will hear yourself in each conversation because the parenting struggles any of us have are truly the parenting struggles all of us have. We'll be right back after this. You. I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside. For my first deep dive, I'm joined by Paul, a father of two young kids zooming in from England. Paul sent me this voice note. Let's listen together and then jump in.

Hi, Dr. Becky, my name's Paul. I've got two boys, Robin, who's nearly three, and Arthur, who's a month old. As we both know, when taking a car journey of any length with kids, pretty much the whole house seems to need to be packed for the trip. From spare outfits, today's most favourite toy, the hat and sunglasses that simply have to be brought even on a cloudy day. What I'm finding now is that while my partner's looking after the little one, Arthur, I'll be getting Robin into the car along with the various bags and items and worrying about what I've forgotten. And it's making me short tempered. I'm prone to to snap or get irrationally frustrated about minor annoyances like tangled car seat straps or having a toy or a book to hold in the car. Suspect this comes from my childhood experiences of long journeys, but I'd like to break this cycle of releasing that anger near him or around him. Thank you so much.

Let's just jump right into it. What's the worst part of it like as you go through that or even think maybe you say something you don't want to say or the tone or it's the tantrum or the tears or the request. What's the worst?

I think for me it's my kind of my shame on my own part of thinking that he might remember the journeys of his childhood the way I kind of remember mine, of sure, being there was fun wherever there might be, but getting there was never fun. And I don't want that for him, for either of my kids. And I know that if I keep Doing this, it could well be the case.

So before we jump into kind of some ideas and strategies which I promise we'll get to, there's another layer here that you so poignantly identified, which is like your very real history with your childhood car rides. So add some color to that. Cause it's also part of the equation.

We have a lot of family up in Scotland, and we spent my whole childhood living south of England. And it was a once a year kind of a trip, but there was no real deadline. We were staying with family or friends. And over the years, I mean, there was a lot of layers to it. I was car sick. I was probably. I don't know, I even want to say that I was probably difficult in the car. But then I don't want Robin to think that he's difficult in the car. So maybe it was.

But let me ask you about that, just because you already kind of put a pin on it, because that's a. It's powerful for all of us in adulthood to look back in our childhood and be like, oh, what self belief did I kind of develop about myself that probably still even lives with me? And like, does it work for me to think about myself as difficult? And I would add on, so many kids internalized that they were difficult when really they were having needs that just happened to be inconvenient to their parents.

Yeah, I can. Looking back, I can see that that was likely the case. You know, my dad was one of those. He wanted to miss the traffic. He wanted to be past Manchester before rush hour or past there before then so that we don't get snarled up in this thing. Don't bother me while we're going. We're just going to get there. Haven't really thought about it until now. And I'm starting to sort of notice this behavior, this dysregulation in Robyn.

It's so interesting because I grew up with some similar dynamics around traffic. Like, how many of us as kids noticed that avoiding traffic was more important than attending to our needs? Like, you knew, like, you gotta be past Manchester by a certain time. And so if I'm nauseous, like, I better swallow my own vomit before asking my father to pull over and hit the traffic that's gonna kill us all.

I mean, as I grew older, I realized there was no deadline, there was no requirement to be. It was just an imposed, self imposed thing. Bayard and I guess it was just his way of avoiding that stress for himself and not really recognising the stress. It was Causing.

Well, being in traffic is a very out of control feeling. Because you want something, there's nothing you can do. And so any adult who really struggles to regulate when they're not in control tends to be an adult who will kind of like organize their whole life around avoiding traffic. They think they're avoiding the traffic, but they're really just avoiding that really overwhelming feeling, you know, that feels awful. And so, okay, so this is your childhood history with journeys, with car rides, and what's going on for Robin. You think, like, what's this about? Is he just an annoying kid with a million requests who's looking to make his dad's life miserable? Maybe. I don't know. So I'll put out one option.

I don't think so. I'm really not sure. We try to make the journey fun. We break it up. I think it's just being on a deadline and I would guess the loss of control. We're going in the car. He's got no choice about it may. Not necessarily. It's usually slightly out of the ordinary, so he's possibly not aware that it's going to be fun the other side. Or he's not clear on where we're going. He's young to understand that. But.

So let's bring this to you. I actually think this is really powerful because I often ask the question, people, what do you think's going on for your kid? And most adults are like, I have no fucking idea. That's why I came here. Okay? Like, why are you even asking me that question? But it's a powerful question that even when I say to myself about my kid, I literally don't know my next step. It's usually a cheat. Let me replace me with my partner and let me replace my kid with me. Right. Because kids are closer to us than they are to any other animal species. So, like, if I put myself in that situation. You have a partner. What's your partner's name?

Sophie.

So you're in that situation, and Sophie's kind of directing you to get out of the house in this way. What's going on for you?

I guess, Yeah. I just wanted to do my own thing and know what was planned for me in the day and where I was going and why.

Great. So let's start there. And that's so in line with, really, a core memory from my oldest's youngest years is I remember, and he wasn't a kid who's terribly prone to tantrums. And I remember I put him in his stroller and he was kind of like, upset where if that was my other two kids, it would have been a full blown tantrum. Right. But. And he finally just says, where am I going? I was like, oh, my goodness, this is like the plight of a child. Like, if my husband got me dressed and strapped me in somewhere and then I was like, protesting, and then I got in trouble for protesting, I don't think anyone would look at me like, I had the problem. No one. They'd be like, you have the worst husband in the world. Like. And it struck me, like, this is what I do to my kid all the time. So what you're saying is, I think. Right on. He probably wants to know what's going on. And he also didn't want this to be happening. Like, my guess is Robin's never come to you and said, hey, can you plan a two hour car ride to go see some random family friends that I may or may not have fun with? Like, that would be just groovy. Like, he's never said that.

No, no, that one hasn't come up.

Right, exactly. And I actually think there could be other things at play, but I actually think these are the two most important things. What is happening to me? So there's confusion. And I didn't plan this or want this. This is not really in line with my own child centric world. And so there's loss of control. Loss of control plus confusion, I think is actually a recipe for dysregulation in any age aged person.

Yeah. I can see frustration or confusion of not, you know, why are you making my life difficult? Why are you interrupting my flow? Why are you preventing me just getting on and doing what I want to do?

And then one of the things you say happens, which resonates in my own house too, in my own difficult moments, is then that becomes more inconvenient for us. Right. When our kids want more information or kind of like want their feelings validated or want that extra toy, or maybe they don't want the extra toy. It's really a way of saying, please, dad, tell me what's going on and please help me understand what's going on around me. If we're focused on a singular goal, like, let's just get in the car and get you strapped in. It makes us less able to attend to this, like, very human need in our kid. We get more disconnected, more frustrated. Right. And now we're in this not so great. Right. Kind of dynamic. Does that, does that resonate?

It does, yeah, it makes. Makes a lot of sense.

So what can we do about it? Okay, so we're going to come back to all this. So now you're back in your home. Tell me how much preparation Robin gets. Not because he needs hours or days, but what does Robin know about the times you're leaving? Where does he range in knowledge from complete knowledge to zero knowledge?

Probably fairly close to the zero. He knows what we're doing. Like, he knows that we're going to a friend's for their birthday party or to visit them or for lunch. I don't go into sort of when we're leaving or the process of leaving or what we're going to be taking with us or anything like that. It's kind of just a we're gonna have breakfast and then we're gonna go, right?

And again, if we think you and Sophie, if she says to you, hey, we're go out to dinner tonight, and then she comes dressed in, like, some gown, and, you know, she's like, oh, I didn't tell you, it's black tie. Like, and we gotta go. We're going to a wedding. You'd be like, what? Like, right. You probably wouldn't feel great.

No, no, no.

But if she said to you, we're going out tomorrow night, It's a wedding. It's black. I mean, you probably. Even then, you probably be like, why are you only telling me this 24 hours in advance? Right? Like, you. You'd want to know. So let's play this out, because, number one, kids have far less experience than us, which means that when we say something, if we don't spell it out, they actually might not be able to put those pieces together. So when you say to Sophie, we have to leave in the morning to get to a friend's for lunch, she probably understands, like, about when you're going to leave. Although I think plenty of marriages, they get in arguments of, like, you didn't tell me it was that far. So adults even need it spelled out. But kids definitely do. And then, number two, I think most adults in their own childhoods would say, yeah, my parents didn't really approach me with the full respect that I probably even deserved as a kid. So we're also just not in the habit of talking to kids with the amount of information and respect they need. So we're both not in the habit of communicating that way. And kids actually probably need more things concretely communicated because they don't have the life experience. So if you think about both of those things, there's so many ways I think you can make the car process much smoother. That actually has nothing to do with the car process, but has everything to do with the state kind of Robin is in before you make those requests. Because I think one of the ways to think about his, oh, what about this? And I need this, And I need this is he actually doesn't need all those things. He's trying to cling to a world he knows, which is world at home. Because he's about to enter into a world he has no idea about, and that feels very scary to everyone. So what does that mean? The night before, I would actually get out, like, I don't know, little figurines and, like, blocks. And if you don't even have that, it could literally just be anything concrete. It could be like a soda can. Doesn't really matter. But it'd be like, this is our house. This is where I am and you are and your baby brother and your mom and almost have, like, four little people. And then I would have another block kind of far away tomorrow, which means after we wake up and after we eat breakfast and maybe even show, like, oh, you know, we'll have a waffle or whatever you eat for breakfast. This is what's going to happen. And then I'd have something that looks like a car, or again, it could be any block, and show how the four of you are going to get in the car, and then show how that car is going to slowly go. Right. And if traffic is an issue, what I would even do in this scene, right, is do something like traffic and show how the car stops. So annoying. What can we do in traffic? Well, Robyn, what could we do? What song could we sing if we get into traffic? Now you're actually helping them understand that, and you're building a coping skill in advance. Everyone wins. And then you keep kind of going until you get to the house. Then you could add another layer. For example, let's say you're going to a house with no kids, or you're going to a house that has, I don't know, four older kids. You can imagine almost playing out the scene there. And again, maybe they're bigger blocks. Oh, those are big kids. There's no kids who really love to do puzzles like you do. Oh, that's tricky. Now, Robin has a mental model now. He's not leaving a known world to go to blank existential nothingness, you know, which any of us would say, no, thank you. Right? He actually can picture what's happening. And, like, all of us, when you can picture something Happening, you immediately feel more competent.

Yeah, that's. I've never considered doing that, sort of taking him through that process.

Right. Because no one teaches us these things. Right. Like nobody ever says to us, when you have kids and you're making a transition, right. Here's something that eases the process. As soon as we hear it, like, it's like, oh, that makes sense. But these things aren't intuitive because. Right. You just leave the hospital at the child and they're like, go forth, you know, raise that human. So I think that will be hugely helpful.

Yeah.

Now, you also alluded to something before. I don't know if you've heard yourself say it, but I'm gonna bring it back. Cause it's your idea and not mine. You're like, we haven't even really set ground rules for like what he's gonna bring in the car and what he's not gonna bring. Right. Like, it's just like he starts grabbing stuff. So that's another kind of area where I think the two of you could set the stage in advance to at least now have language for what's gonna happen. Whatever you wanna say. You can bring two toys from our home. I know it's nice to bring something from your home so you know you have it, right? What two toys do you want? Or maybe you've set this up before. You're gonna bring two toys. I know you want it. Bring five, the limit's gonna be two. So you've even almost like gotten ahead of this moment, really alliance building, really respectful. And it also, as a parent, kind of gives you a baseline to refer to. He still might be upset, but now you feel like you have footing instead of feeling like you're flailing. Cuz it seems like when the car situation happens, Robin is flailing, but it seems also you feel like you're flailing. You're like, I don't know what I'm doing here. Like, I'm just going with the flow, that it's not a bad way to parent at all. It just, if it's not working, I think it's a sign, like I'm just gonna feel better if we've discussed some of these things in advance. The way that kids of all ages, and I think adults too need extra connection before any moment of transition. It can be when you say, hey, we're about to get into the car. You know what, let's have extra big Daddy and Robin hugs before. Ooh, Doing something new feels a little tricky for everyone. Let's really. And I call it let's fill up with each other. So you really, like, give a hug. Another way to build connection is to join a child in their world before you ask them to join yours. When we ask a kid to get in a car, they're joining our world. They literally don't care about getting in the car. They don't want to, oh, I know you probably wish we could stay home or I see you playing with those blocks. We are gonna have to put that away to go get in the car. So in a way, I'm picturing my son doing something and I'm almost like, getting off my planet, making a bridge to their planet. And then in a way, I form this bridge that now the two of us can, like, walk back to my planet. Which probably. Paul, it's not even something you're dying to do. Get in the car and drive for two hours. Like, it's not like your idea of a fun day, but still it's more your priority than it is your kid's priority. Two big things there, right? Connecting in that moment of transition and giving information to lower confusion and therefore lower dysregulation. Tell me what you think about that and then I'm going to save the best for last for my number three.

Yeah, it sounds great. And I mean, from one of your podcast things, we have started doing the hugs to fill up, but I feel silly for not using it now. But it's when I go to work, we do it in the morning because I'm the more absent parent when going away to work and stuff. He gets quite excited when I'm leaving, when I'm coming home, or when I'm not often but sometimes gets upset when I'm leaving. So we started doing the big fill you up cuddles before we go, and then you're filled up for the day and then ready for when I get back. But because I was going with him in the car journey, I guess it didn't occur to me to apply the same technique.

Yeah. And again, like, I always think this is like a. It's like a muscle we work. Right. Especially like, I wasn't parented this way. It's a new muscle. It's a new language. Okay, well, learning a new language is like, valiant to even try. And you're. You're doing so much. And so the last thing I want to share is really something for you. Okay. Because those moments when our blood is boiling, our body really does interpret our environment as dangerous, similar to what your dad probably did interpret traffic as Maybe he still does. Right. And so our body, if it's giving us information that there's a threat, we can't beat that just with pure logic, right? We have to really speak to those feelings. And here is my mantra that I truly use whenever I feel triggered with my kid. Cause whenever we feel triggered in any situation, I. Our body is interpreting something that probably is annoying or inconvenient as true danger. And we need to like speak to that difference. So my mantra in those moments is, becky, I'm safe. This is not an emergency. And then either I can cope with this, or this is powerful. I don't have to do anything right now that's really important. And I think speaks to even what you were saying, Paul, that there's not a deadline. Because when your son inevitably it's not gonna go smooth just cause we talked about these things, right? It takes some times to sh. And still kids are kids. So he's like, I wanna go back and get that one toy. If you're able to say to yourself, this is not an emergency, I'm safe. And I actually don't have to do anything right now. It takes away the urgency of what happens. So I'm gonna ask you to actually repeat some version of that back to me that resonates with you. Because giving yourself, even right now, a rep of building that new mantra muscle is so powerful.

Okay, Paul, we're not in a rush. We don't have to do this now. We don't have to do anything now. Great. Yeah.

And I'm going to ask you to try one on. It feels dramatic, but there's something about it. Our body likes either I am safe or this is not an emergency.

Yeah, this is not an emergency. Paul, we're not in a rush. This is not an emergency. Great.

And what's really important with that mantra is to say it. Cause even with a mantra that we say to ourselves, it's more the tone than the words. So I can say to myself, becky, this is not an emergency. I'm not even in a rush. I promise you it's not gonna be helpful. Right? Because in some ways now I'm just adding blame and shame to my state of threat. When I say to myself, becky, this is not an emergency. I don't have to do anything right now. I'm safe. I am safe. Saying to ourselves, I'm safe. It's easy to hear someone say those words. And like, I really mean it's. Have a little bit of an eye roll. Like I have to say to myself, I'm safe because my kid's asking for a toy like that. Feels like a little much. But we're speaking to the reality of our body. And if our body is getting to a place of feeling triggered and having to do something with immediacy to shut down. Right when we yell, we're just like, there's an immediacy urgency. Shut it down now. Then our body is interpreting something as a true threat. And we can't beat our body's threat system. We also don't want to. Our body's trying to help us. It's just misguided and so gently and kindly telling your body, even if it feels a little over the top, it's surprising how effective those words are.

Yeah, I'll have to practice that. And actually, I think you're right. I think saying I'm not in the rush, I think I can almost. I think they're arguments that my mum and dad would have had. Dad saying, we've got to go, we've got to go. My mum's side of it would have been, we're not in a rush. Why? So I'm almost taking the other side there.

Exactly. So we don't need to add more of, you know, our not as functional as we'd want it to be past to our present. We all have enough of that. And the other thing I should say about that mantra is if you ever actually want to even say it out loud while your son's around. It is so powerful for kids to watch their parents self soothe in a moment of stress, rather than probably what a lot of us saw and our kids still see, watch their parents just act out in a moment of stress, which still happens for me too, and it still will happen. But so powerful. And so to kind of bring it together, I think you're gonna actually get the most bang for your buck. As always with kids, it's never about what we do in the moment. It's a little bit about that. But where we really change is everything we do outside the moment. So naming what's happening and making it visual. Right. So we gave the example of play. Some kids like a visual calendar. Tomorrow we will be going to this house and they see it, oh, in two boxes. I'm doing that car thing in advance, talking about some things, how many toys they can bring, getting it ready. Right. Helpful for everyone thinking about in the moment, how to increase connection. Join your child in their world, give them an extra hug. Connection always helps transitions because we help kids feel safe and then they don't have to act out. And then the last is really thinking about a mantra that speaks to what's going on in our body and kind of honoring the reality of those intense sensations and thinking, like, what not what logically do I need to hear? Because logically probably doesn't even seem like a big deal, but just what actually helps my body. And you can even play around with that in a calm moment. Like, picture the kind of situation. Picture your son protesting, maybe picture the traffic, all of it, and test it out. What happens when I say this? Oh, that didn't help that much. Let me try something else. Right. Your body will give you clues to what really resonates. And I think those are three categories. Kind of prep in the moment mantra for yourself. That will really make a big difference.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

I also wanna say before we end, like, I really, like, notice and appreciate really your openness, your reflection, your willingness to be so honest and vulnerable. That's how I define bravery. And it just says a lot about you as a parent. And so please take that with you side by side to those, you know, maybe new strategies.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com podcast. You could also write me@podcastoodinside.com parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world and parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like, valued parents. It's totally game changing. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhee, Julia Natt, and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, Jill Cromwell Wang, Ashley Valenzuela, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even, even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain Good Inside.