Cheryl Strayed Answers Your Questions

Cheryl Strayed joined me last week to talk about repair. And if you haven't heard that episode yet, it is a must. Listen. And because we had so many things we wanted to explore with her, she's back this week to answer your questions. I'm Dr. Becky. This is Good Inside. And we'll be back right after this. All right, let's hear from Amy, who has a question for us.

Exciting.

Hi, my name is Amy. My question is, what do you do when you become estranged with a parent and it impacts your kids? In other words, what do you do when an estrangement with your parent is impacting the grandparent and grandchild relationship? My mom died in 2018, and my dad was remarried by 2020 to a woman he didn't really care for. And just like that, my mom's memory was erased in their house. He's emotionally wounded constantly. He's distant and detached, and he barely reaches out to my kids. But then he's angry that they don't reach out to him. He compares my kids to his new wife's grandchildren. The list just goes on and on and on. And I keep my own feelings about my dad to myself, but my kids feel their own loss with him, and they struggle. I made the difficult decision a year ago to cut ties with my dad for so many reasons that I worked on. My kids are now 11 and 13. It's been almost five years since my mom died. They talk a lot about their confusion with my dad, how much they miss their relationship with their papi, and how angry they are because they were really, really close before my mom died. I'm at a loss at this point of what to do because I'm a grownup and I can handle a family estrangement. I can figure out what it's like to lose my mom to cancer and my dad, I guess to grief at a new marriage. But my kids are little and they don't understand and they don't know what to do. And there's not a rule book for any of this. So I guess that's my question. What do you do when you're estranged from a parent and it's impacting your kids?

Oh, my goodness. What a painful situation. It's Amy. Is that right? Yeah, it's a painful situation, and it's one I'm really familiar with, at least in general terms. And I think that the. You know, the question about the children, to me, first of all, it doesn't sound like Amy. It doesn't sound like your father that you're Estranged because your father was abusive or that you fear that he would in some ways harm your kids. And that, to me, is the first kind of litmus test of whether you should all be estranged from your dad or not. What I would do in this case is be as honest as you can, age appropriately with your kids about the reasons that you and your dad have had this split, but also talk to them about the fact that their relationship with him is their relationship with him. And maybe there are ways that you can foster and encourage connections between them and your dad that are sort of like maybe some letter writing start out with, you know, a few times a year on, you know, on occasions that call for it, you have your kids, you know, write him cards or letters and see what comes back. It doesn't sound like your dad is awfully active when it comes to doing that work of reaching out, but I think teaching your kids about, like, the ways that they can reach out towards him and see what happens next, at least it offers some sense of, like, hope, some sense of reach, some sense of perhaps, you know, keeping at least the threat of a connection alive in this period that we're gonna wait and see what happens between them. What do you think, Dr. Becky?

I was also struck by just how painful, you know, and also, though, Amy, like, how poignant and direct your question was. I think what comes up for me is kind of along the same lines as you, Cheryl, in terms of just how hard it is to separate what we're protecting ourselves from, what we're protecting our kids from, what's our story, what their story is. And so much of our job as a parent is we learn things in the world, and then we want to do better for our kids. And so it makes sense to think, like, I've been hurt in this way. I feel so let down in this way. And then, you know, I find it hard myself to be like, okay, is that mine? Is that true for my kids? Right. And I just wanna validate for you, Amy. It sounds like you've been really let down, you know. You know, you lost your mom, and now it feels like you're losing your dad to someone else. It sounds like you've made efforts and they haven't been reciprocated in the way that you would want. And that's very real. And you, without a doubt, have the right to make decisions according. And I think what, Cheryl, what you were talking about is kind of the next level of decisions of my kids have not actually been through everything I've been through their Expectations are also different for a grandfather than a father. They also, and I mean this, Amy. Like, they have an amazing and present mom right now to help them deal with any sadness that might come up if they reach out and feel hurt. Right. And you don't have your mom anymore to help you offset that hurt with your dad. And so I think, number one with your kids, I would name what's happened. I just think it's so powerful when we have tricky truths to start sentences our kids. Like, you've probably noticed this. You are right to notice that. You probably noticed I don't talk to papa anymore. And you're right to notice that and then to actually just share a story to help them understand. Right. Kids notice everything. They notice more than we notice. And what's really overwhelming to them is when they notice pieces of a puzzle but don't have a thread to connect them. And if we don't provide a thread for them, you know, they get confused, they get mad. Right. And it's not often the events as much as not having an understanding of how they come together. So I guess he's saying, I felt really hurt. And, you know, your kids aren't two anymore. They're old enough to understand that. And if it feels right along the lines of what Cheryl and I are each saying, you could even say, you know, sometimes it's hard to differentiate, like, what I felt hurt by, what I think you might feel hurt by. Maybe I'm trying to protect you, but maybe actually it's best for you to reach out and develop your own relation relationship with him. And we'll just manage what comes up around that and kind of, what do you think? And then I think you're really collaborating with your kids around those next steps.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it is such a devastating experience. But I think Amy, too, the fact that you're asking this question tells me that you don't want to make that decision for your family, that your whole family is estranged from your dad, that you do feel that there is some value to your kids staying connected to your dad, or at least testing if they can be still connected to your dad while you. And you're estranged from him. And so I think that's worth trusting and listening to and at least trying and trying in a way that does protect both you and the kids. That's why I suggested writing letters, you know, and, and I. And, and again, only if your kids really feel that that might be worthwhile. And, and I know that that comes with some risk, because what happens if they write him letters and he doesn't respond. That is something that I it. You're obviously a wonderful mother that I think you're equipped to deal with, and then you make other decisions based on that. But what happens if they write to him and he writes back? At least if, even though they're not having the kind of relationship they used to have, at least there is, like I said, some threat of a connection that could lead down the line to something that is important and powerful and beautiful in their lives.

And I would just add, Amy, just prepare yourself. If they do write him and he does write back, it'll be totally normal for that to almost be harder for you, you know, I mean, so just, oh, yeah, that feeling would be normal. And you know, don't blame yourself for that. Right. It doesn't mean you wish bad on your kids, but, you know, anytime where our own loss is brought up, you know, it's extra painful. Yeah.

Oh, it's hard. So painful. I wish you so much of the best, Amy, and I'm so sorry you lost your mom.

Ito. All right, Cheryl, let's hear from Jenny.

Hi, Dr. Becky and Cheryl. This is Jenny. I'm hoping that you can help me with my materialistic 14 year old daughter. She wants exclusively name brand clothes, shoes, shampoo, lotions, you name it. We give her a budget for shopping for clothes and shoes three times a year and that's in addition to generous gifts and lots of random little purchases through the year. But she always spends her budget on just a few very expensive items and then complains that she doesn't have anything to wear. She has a terrible attitude about our budget and our lack of interest in name brands and tells us that she wishes we would just chill. My husband and I both have always been very friendly, frugal. I grew up in a really difficult situation for a lot of different reasons, but money was definitely one of the issues and there was never enough. And I was on my own by the time I was 16. I was living out of my car and on friends couches and I ended up getting pregnant with my first child when I was 18. And I put myself through college on loans as a single teenage mom before I met my husband. And I did all of that to give my kids the life that I wish that I had had. But my daughter wants more. She never saw us struggle and that was my goal. But now I feel like she doesn't value a dollar. I feel resentful, unappreciated, and I'm really freaking out and experiencing A lot of parental guilt because I feel like I have on teaching financial responsibility and gratitude and I just am not quite sure where to go from here. So I would really appreciate any input. Thank you.

Oh my goodness. So, Dr. Becky, so you, you asked for the easy question.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should see the ones. I'm not playing, Cheryl.

These are, these are challenging. And what was this caller's name again?

Jenny.

Jenny. Jenny, I feel your pain. First of all, I just want to address this idea that you feel like you failed at something because of value that you hold seemingly didn't translate to your daughter. First, I want to say you're clearly an amazing mother, and not just an amazing mother, but a really strong and courageous and resilient human who has done so much work on yourself and all you've done to nurture your children against many difficulties is so impressive. And I think that the fear you express is pretty universal, at least in this household. Both my husband and I sometimes say, how is it, you know, how is it that our kids didn't absorb this value or this habit or this practice or this way of conducting themselves? And I think that that is, you know, first of all, not true. I think that everything you have modeled and lived through and taught your, your daughter and your, and your other child or children is there in them. And I think that that's not always very readily apparent when they're 14 years old. I also think that your 14 year old daughter is her own person. She might not ultimately be as frugal as you. And it's not because you did, did or didn't do anything. It's because she is who she is. And like you and like me and like Dr. Becky and like all of us, she's going to have to learn some of her values through living them. And I think that you're doing just the right thing. I mean, by giving her a budget and talking to her about the way it works, that, you know, if you spend all your money on two really expensive things you can't buy, you know, six less expensive things, I think to really hold true to what you've been doing and continue educating her, maybe even next time that she has the opportunity to spend that money you give her, the next time it's that she is receiving those funds, maybe sit down with her and say, hey, can we do some shopping together? Maybe you go shopping, maybe she's online shopping and ask her to show you what she's spending that money on and without taking command and you know, telling her, hey, you can Ultimately spend this money on whatever you wish. But let me show you, instead of buying these shoes, what about these that are cheaper? And maybe helping her in that way will open her eyes. But I think that really holding true to this, to this line that you said that this is how much you have to spend on these items. And if you choose to spend it on these few things, we're not going to then step in and save you. The way you learn the value of a dollar is to be responsible for that dollar. A dollar you earn is. And the dollar you spend, the way you decide to spend it is the way you learned about the consequences of those things. What do you think, Dr. Becky?

Oh, so many things. You know, my first thought here, I have so many different thoughts is to me, this is such a good example of when people say to me what ages of kids is like good inside stuff good for like is it best for 2 year olds or you know, 8 year olds or 14 year olds? And we all want to know like that's what we're always saying as a parent, what's the right thing? What does good look like? Right, we know, but to me this is such a good example of where these ideas, you know, span every single age. Right. So to me the first thing I was thinking about is the principle. I think that honestly Jenny, I think you're putting into place which is just family jobs, like what is my job in my family as a parent and what is my kid's job as a kid? Right. Because we actually can never know how to do a job well if we don't know what our job is. And to me a parent's job is always boundaries and validation. My job is to make key decisions or set limits based around my kids safety, but also truly what I believe is like good for them long term and validation. My other job, which is equally as important as boundaries, is validating the reality of my kids experience. And my kids job actually is to experience and express their feelings. Because the only way we ever know how to cope with feelings is by feeling them. You can't develop coping skills for feelings you don't have. And so we want our kids to deal with frustration and disappointment when they're adults. Well guess what, if we go out of our way to remove those feelings when they're young, they're gonna have zero coping skills. Right. And these jobs really work in an interplay because usually when we set a boundary, a kid has a feeling about it, then we get to do the validation part of our job, continue to hold the boundary, they continue to have the feeling, and it's like kind of wash and repeat. So your boundary is, here's how we do money in this family. Your child's very upset about it. She's allowed to be very upset about it. Right? Our boundaries, even when we feel great about them, they don't dictate our kids feelings. And our kids feelings, even when they feel right about feeling them, don't dictate our boundaries. And then the next part of our job is to understand that our kids are upset while holding the boundary. And so I think that concept, you know, is important because if not, we worry that our kids protest or upset feelings mean we're not doing something right, or they should understand. Right? So they're just separate. The other thing, Jenny, that really came up for me when you were talking. It actually relates, Sheryl, to what we were talking about with conflict, right? We are triggered when we see something in our kid that we had to learn to shut down in ourselves. And what I see in your daughter is not materialism, even though maybe that's how it manifests. She's pleasure seeking. She likes good stuff. She likes the. You know, she likes to seek pleasure. Right. She's like this. I want that. I want it. She desires so much, and she feels entitled to desire, and she wants to have the things she desire. Right. It sounds like for you, you know, with very understandable reasons, developed a lot of, you know, kind of in some ways, inhibition of momentary desire and pleasure to be able to survive and thrive. That was actually very key. Right. And so you two are a little bit on opposite ends of the spectrum now. I think what often happens when we see something we're triggered by in our kid is we do. We want to make them more like us. And it's not to say that's wrong, but we're like, hey, look at what you could buy. I actually think the intervention, Jenny, I'd recommend you doing first with your daughter would be this. Be like, you know what? I have a really hard time buying expensive things for myself. I've never told you that. I was like, do I want them? I don't know. And I have a weird thing to ask you. I'm going to this dinner, and I kind of think about a dress. But I know you would say, mom, we gotta get you a nicer dress. And I would say, no, we don't. But just this one time, will you. When you go shopping with me, like, will you help me feel like it's okay? I'm gonna cry? I don't know why I'm gonna cry. Will you help me feel like it's okay to, like, just get a dress that's a little outside my comfort zone? And, Jenny, in a way, like, showing your daughter it's okay to kind of desire or kind of want things in that way, I actually think creates more room for her to not overnight kind of access her more planned, you know, kind of moderate part of herself. And I also think it would just be a massive connection moment. Right. Because I'm sure she's heard a million times how wasteful it is or how it's so silly. And anything that's kind of paradoxical in a relationship, you know, can create a ton of movement. And so I'd be really curious how that went.

Yeah, I love that. I love that idea. And I think, too, this desire for these brand names, it doesn't come from nowhere. You know, we are. Let's just remember that all of us are surrounded all the time. Images, advertisements, celebrities wear, you know, wearing brands that then we are, you know, that are designed to make us covet them. You know, this. Your. Your daughter's desires are. Are real. And I love. I love Dr. Becky's idea of the two of you going shopping together. I also want to say, Jenny, I so relate to your experience. I grew up poor, and really, honestly, one of my childhood, deepest childhood longings was for brands. I never got to have a pair of Levi jeans. I never got to have a pair of Nikes or Tigers or Pumas. We always shopped at Kmart and bought these, like, no brand, you know, things because they were cheap or my mother sewed our clothes. And so I think there is. I think Dr. Becky is very much onto something that some part of you. This is really hitting you in some ancient sense of longing or scarcity or sacrifice that, you know, turning to your daughter with the advice that we both offer to go shopping or to. Or to talk to her and educate her about some. Some other option she might have, but also to, you know, think about, you know, how and why this feels so important and high stakes to you. Because it's probably ultimately not just about your daughter. It's about that sort of wound that you still have about all the things that you wanted and didn't get.

Yeah. And I can just, you know, speak from experience, too, although the situation's totally different. I used to be so triggered by my son's, like, constant asking for things. Maybe it's not that different. It wasn't materialism, but he's Also very in touch with desire and taking up space, right? Oh, you're so ungrateful. And, you know, just, like, all this litany of things, and until I was like, you know, I was such a good girl as a kid, which just really means a girl without desire, right? And I was like, instead of trying to make him more like me, what would happen? I literally said to myself, what would happen for a week if I just, like, started inconveniencing people, right? And was like, no, I do, you know, I do want to return this, even though it's past the return date. And, you know, actually, hey, can you. Can you stand up? I'd like to sit on the subway today. Like, just, like, random things, and it kind of. Instead of looking to shut down that part of him, what if I slightly grew that part of myself, and then the gap between us was less wide in that way, and it really did change things. I'm not gonna pretend it was, like, a massive 180 overnight, but it truly did change things. I could talk to him instead of feeling triggered by him, which, I don't know. I feel like that's the best we get.

Mm. That's right.

Cheryl, I feel like one day I'm gonna make you go on a retreat with me and, I don't know, talk to you for, like, 90 hours straight. So get ready. Oh, I would love that.

Let's do it. Let's do it. We could talk forever. I. You know, I can't believe our time is up, but, I mean, I feel like we just barely started talking. There's so much more to talk about.

So much. So I'm gonna use that as justification to reach back out to you.

Okay, let's do it.

Okay. Cheryl, thank you. Your work is. It is so important. It hits millions of people, like, deep in that part of your soul that, you know, coming back to what we started with, that I think has lived in aloneness for people and has been stored in aloneness until they've connected with your work. And I'm just so grateful that you do everything you do. So thank you.

Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much. I could say that right back to you. I'm so grateful to you for your work, and thank you so much for having me on your podcast and giving me this chance to speak not just to you, but your whole community.

Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com podcast. You could also write me@podcastoodinside.com. parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world and parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's totally game changing. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsem at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhee, Julia Natt, and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain Good Inside.