Deep Dive: @sharonsaysso on Preparing Kids for Social Media and the Internet

You're listening to good inside with Dr. Becky. I have so many ideas, strategies and scripts to share with you right after a word from our sponsor. Hi, I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside. I'm a clinical psychologist and and mom of three on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children. I love translating deep thoughts about parenting into practical, actionable strategies that you can use in your home right away. One of my core beliefs is that we are all doing the best we can with the resources we have available to us in that moment. So even as we strike struggle and even as we are having a hard time on the outside, we remain Good inside. I'm so excited to have the one and only Sharon McMahon with me on the show today. You might know Sharon from her amazing Instagram page, Sharon says so, or her podcast by the same name. Sharon is a former high school government and law teacher on a mission to combat political misinformation. Sharon has amassed hundreds of thousands of followers online, affectionately called the Governers, who look to her for truth and logic and also for connectedness. I met Sharon through my own Instagram journey and she and I immediately hit it off. While we aren't talking about politics today, we are talking about something that's extremely important and also controversial. Social media and Internet use in teenagers. Sharon lets me in on how she manages these dynamics in her home, where her kids push back and where their current struggles lie. With all of that in mind, let's jump in. Hi Sharon, it is so good to see you in this way. I'm so excited to be talking with you today.

Oh, thank you for having me. This is just an amazing opportunity to get some of your incredible parenting insight.

Oh well, thank you. And so let's just jump right in. Tell me a little bit about you and your home. Tell me kind of a topic that is kind of tricky or something you're wanting us to think through together.

So I have four kids and I have three teenagers and a nine year old and my husband and I are both working parents. I'm a busy entrepreneur. My husband has a job, you know, like a high level job at a non profit. So busy like a lot of families. And one of the things that has been challenging, and I think this is challenging for a lot of people, is family figuring out how to deal with electronics, including telephones and your adolescent children. When your kid's five, it's easy to be like you don't have a phone.

You know what I mean?

But when your kid is 17, it's a different matter entirely. And it's very, very tricky to set limits around phone usage, TV usage, you know, gaming usage, all of that kind of stuff without it dissolving into massive power struggles and fights.

Great. So we're gonna, we're gonna solve that. Every aspect of it.

Good.

Okay. We're gonna solve it 30 minutes flat. Let's. Okay, we're gonna do this. I think this is one of the trickier topics, especially as you said, when our kids get older that I know. I've worked with families who say, I used to say to my child, hey, let's come up with screen time rules together. And we'd kind of have this meeting and we'd come up with, oh, you get one show, sometimes two shows, and sometimes there'd be a tantrum, but sometimes there'd be an agreement. Now it's, I'm just throwing all that out the window because now my kid has a phone. How do I manage that? I have a phone, I'm on my phone a lot. My kid loves to call me out on that. How do we kind of manage these dynamics while maintaining a relationship? Also knowing our kids are going to be independent from us very soon, like your 17 year old. So, so nuanced, so tricky. These are the things I love thinking through. So can you kind of describe a situation where all of this might come to a head? Kind of something specific, specific. So we can all kind of imagine it.

One of the challenges that I discovered was when I would have a set time limit on how much my. Let's just go with my daughter could use her phone, like we're going to be done with it at certain time in the evening or you can have an X number of time after school. What I discovered and what she discovered is that she was excluded from almost all of the social interactions at school because they were having happening via text messages and via other platforms, Snapchat, Instagram, et cetera with her friends after the time that she was, you know, like not allowed to be on her phone anymore. So one specific scenario, she came home in tears on a Friday and I said, what are you upset about? And what she was upset about was all these other girls in her circle of friends had planned to have, you know, like a movie night at a friend's house and she had not been invited because she didn't see the notifications. Like the, her phone had been turned off for the night and everybody was like, oh, do you guys want to come over tomorrow? And so they made all these plans and then they didn't talk about it while they were at school because they were busy. And then she found out like I didn't get to go to that because I didn't have a phone. And that's just one example of times that, that she had been excluded because she didn't have access to her phone in the same way that other girls her age.

Oh, so many things going on. Because these platforms really are the place that kids are socializing or planning. And when we want to limit the kind of negative impacts of some of these platforms, we are also kind of taking away our kids ability to engage and plan in some of the positive aspects of being a teenager. Right. Which we don't want to do. So a couple thoughts, maybe just to start to get more information. So what goes down next between you and your daughter?

Well, I mean, it just was like me trying to comfort her and you know, me telling her that there'll be more opportunities and oh, I understand why this is so upsetting. You know, just trying to empathize with her emotions of feeling like she was excluded because that feels bad and I can, I can relate to that. I had that happen to me as a teenager when I was excluded from something and it feels legitimately terrible.

Yeah.

So I just did my best to empathize. But then that is just one step in like an escalating situation of everybody else is using their phone to do homework related things. Everybody else has access to YouTube, everybody else has access to, you know, all of these other things. And I am the lone weirdo who can't. Whose parents are randomly super strict about this. And it's causing me to feel ostracized and excluded in my peer group.

Yeah. Okay. And to get a little bit more background, you and your husband tell me a little bit more about. I'm hearing there's values or beliefs or concerns you have, which is one of the things that leads to some of these guidelines with your kids.

Well, my job is largely online, so I'm clearly not somebody who is fundamentally opposed to things like being on Instagram. But I do have concerns about the types of things that happen on platforms like Snapchat where you hear about bullying, you hear about access to very age inappropriate material things that get shared and then they're shared and immediately disappear because of the nature of Snapchat. So it's very difficult to then check up on what actually is happening here because all that stuff disappears, but yet it impacts your child's life. So to me it is less a value judgment of like all Online stuff is terrible. And more like, I want to try to protect you from all of the bad things that are happening in the world to the small extent that I'm able.

So it makes me think of two kind of approaches that I think we can do both with our kids. But two things come into mind, which is kind of protecting them from the things they might see on Instagram, on Snapchat, on YouTube. I actually, I'm totally aligned with that. And then also it's not an. Or preparing them to be mindful, thoughtful consumers of media and developing relationships with our kids as early as possible that helps them identify. Ooh, that's uncomfortable. Ooh, what's going to happen next? Ooh, I might need to go talk to someone about that. Because one of the things that. And you're closer to this age, much closer than I am with my kids is when our kids leave our house with a phone or when they go to college. Right. Well, all they have are kind of the skills we've given them. And at that point, having kind of protected them without having prepared them can lead to kind of just a binge situation or. Well, I'm no more prepared now at 18 than I was when I was 15. Right. So I hear the protection side. I think about this a lot also with my kids, that there's some role, as long as my kids are in my house where I can say other kids are doing X, I don't think X is good for kids your age. And I need to prioritize your safety over your kind of approval of my decision. That's part of my job as a parent. Now, separate from that, I think about what are the core things kids can learn with us to be more kind of mindful engagers with Instagram, with Snapchat. Right. So here are some of things I think about, and I'm curious if these are things you do in your home, because to me, one of the things I know I'm thinking about with my kids is I will feel more and more comfortable with them being on some of these platforms if I truly do see evidence that they're not just going to mindlessly engage with certain content and if they have the ability to kind of be critical users, to have some dissonance with some of the things they're seeing. So Instagram is one of them even. Right. Where you and I both do a lot of things on Instagram and in some ways are part of this, like, educational community on Instagram. Right. We're not posting. Not yet, at least. Right. Kind Of, I don't know, pictures and tropical places and kind of maybe, you know, in our, you know, string bikinis. But that's usually not what our teenagers are using it for. Maybe in part. Right. And I know, I think a lot about self worth and just the way that's built for kids in so many of their early years while they're in this world that just filled with external validation seeking. Right. Snapchat. Right. There's a lot of, ooh, what do people want of me? Maybe a little less like, what do I want for myself on something like Snapchat? What do I want for myself on YouTube? What am I seeking out? What happens when the next video starts? Right. And all of this, of course, side by side with the fact that our kids brains are less developed than ours and it's really hard for them to resist the temptation of kind of of the way these monsters are being built to captivate us. So I'm curious about that. Let's start with like one of the things that there's some struggle over. Maybe it's Snapchat, maybe it's YouTube, maybe it's Instagram with one of your kids. And I think it would be really kind of powerful to think like, how do we, in addition to putting some limitations, how do we simultaneously build our kids kind of media literacy skills and psychological skills so we can start to have more trust in our kids using these platforms?

Well, I have a daughter who is 14 and she is going to ninth grade. And so she's moving away from her more isolated peer group in middle school and moving into a much bigger school now. And up until recently she has. Well, she still doesn't have Snapchat and YouTube on her phone or TikTok. All of those things are things that she, if she wants to watch a YouTube video on, whatever she, she really loves engineering and videos about building things she loves, like Mark rober content on YouTube. So if you really want to watch something like that, you can come down and use the computer in our living room and you can watch your YouTube videos there that are, you know, like the fun content that you enjoy. But that is currently one of the challenges my husband and I are kind of up against of do we let her install all of these things on her phone as she is getting ready to head into high school? And how do we prevent all of that, like the mindless addictive scrolling that happens especially, you know, on Snapchat and TikTok, et cetera.

And so if we just name it, what's the thing you're most worried about the, the habit or the content she's going to come across.

The content is a greater concern because I think that has the potential to be more damaging if you are habitually watching videos about how Congress works. The habit of that is less concerning to me than the Damag content that is very difficult to parentally restrict on apps like Snapchat and TikTok.

Naked bodies.

Yeah, that's part of it, yeah. Suicide related things. Just content that is very inappropriate for a 14 year old girl, in my opinion.

And is this stuff you talk about directly with her?

Yeah, because she asked me all the time why, why can't I have TikTok, why can't I have YouTube, why can't I have Snapchat when everybody else does? And so we've had this conversation dozens of times about the kind of stuff that is on these platforms. And her perspective is I am an intelligent 14 year old, I get good grades, I have a babysitting job. I, you know, like, she's not a behavior problem, she's not a behavior problem at school, she's not a behavior problem outside of school. She's like, what else can I do to demonstrate that it's acceptable for me to have a YouTube?

So I don't know why I'm picturing you sitting down with your daughter and saying one of the things and I'm not saying right now, but that might over time make me feel more comfortable with you having more discretion is knowing that me and you have actually really talked about some of the topics you might come across. And so this might feel uncomfortable right now. So I'm just gonna say it and you can kind of turn around. We can talk about it another time. But I don't want YouTube to be, you know, the way you really learn about sex. I don't want YouTube to be the first source of information about mental health and how depression can impact people. You're old enough for us to really talk about those things. And I'm not trying to say moms can replace YouTube. Certainly they can't. Or you should ask your mom anything, or you can talk to your mom about anything because you're getting older and you're allowed to have things on your own. And yet I think it's important for us in our relationship to have a baseline and connection around some of these, you know, kind of really tricky topics. So at least you have information inside of you as you at some point do come across other information, you know, when you're on your own. So maybe you're think that's already happened, but tell me about that because one of the things I see a lot in my practice is the kids who are especially obsessed with getting information elsewhere. There's been a shutdown of their curiosity, not just on YouTube, but just kind of a little bit more across the board that when I do see families like, yeah, we, you know, we've talked about sex, we've talked about porn. These aren't, you know, it's not like every dinner table, this is the only thing we're talking about. Right. But these aren't taboo topics in either. And I feel good about my kids knowledge that they can have a baseline of engaging with content they see on YouTube or even hear from peers. Right. Because of those open conversations we've had.

You're absolutely correct that the, you know, like developmentally children need to separate from you emotionally. It's not like you're dropping a newborn off at college. Right. Like they've had 18 years to separate from you so that they can become independent. That's the goal is to raise independence humans who you continue to have a good relationship with, but they have to gain some level of independence and it needs to be appropriate, clearly. But I love the idea that this is a skill that I need to teach you of how to engage with information online that makes you feel uncomfortable, that is inappropriate, et cetera.

Yeah. My oldest is nine. Right. And one of the things as we're thinking about the Internet that I thought a lot about this past year is he was in virtual school. Right. And I wasn't sitting in his room the entire time. How the average age in which kids come across, like naked, as an example, naked pictures of bodies is really young, is. Is somewhere around the age of 10. Right. And even younger. Right. Kids have access to the Internet. Kids who are in virtual school are, you know, in the Internet world. And one of the things I think about a lot with my kids is I want to be the first one in that if I'm not talking about something explicitly with them, they're going to figure out, even if I don't allow it in my home. They could be at the library and looking at something. They could take a friend's phone when they're out. And I don't want something they come across outside of me to be literally the first piece of a circuit around what is sex? What is pornography? What happens when people feel really, really down. Even we said the topic of suicide. I wanna talk about that with my kid before anyone else talks about that with my Kid or before my kid is in a situation where they're essentially like, what? What is this? I have no baseline that actually we can build. And it's interesting, Sharon, I'm thinking about so much of what you help people with, which is to really engage with information, right. To kind of be like thoughtful and to really get down to facts as opposed to everything being kind of so biased or kind of confirmatory. Right. And I actually think about in similar ways with all these psychological developments that if I can kind of prep myself and I can like look my, look at myself in the mirror and be like, becky, today I am going to talk to my son about the fact that he might end up coming across pictures that are really inappropriate. And I want to at least talk about that with him rather than if that happens, and I have it named that that could happen, that is such a worse situation. And I think we're all living in an age now where we can't reasonably say, there's no way my kid's gonna come across that. Right? We're past that point. I think we've been past that point for a long time. Again, let's get one more level of concrete. So it's me and my 9 year old son, or me and my 14 year old daughter, and my kid's like, I want YouTube, I want YouTube, I want YouTube.

Okay.

You know, one of the things on YouTube that I'm hesitant about is you might be trying to look up a video about science and you might start that video about something about microbiology. And all of a sudden there could be something that feels really off putting, almost like scary, because you really didn't expect it and you don't understand it. There's a lot of videos online, even on YouTube, that are really inappropriate almost for anyone, definitely for kids. And then I'd probably pause and say, I'm happy to be more detailed because I don't want to beat around the bush. I just want maybe us both to get our bodies ready. Because I know this is not sometimes the stuff we often discuss. This is gonna feel a little bit different than for both of us, right? And in some ways we then, I think, need to take that first step, right? Because I think often our kids, especially our teenagers, are kind of asking parents without explicitly asking, is it okay to be curious about these things? Is it okay to talk about certain things? Is it okay to know certain things? And if we don't make that explicit through our relationship with them either, we turn off a kid's curiosity, which for a million Reasons we don't want to do. Because you can't turn off curiosity about some things and leave it on about all the things we want to leave it on about. Or. Or a kid learns. My parent just isn't someone I can express my curiosity to about X number of subjects, which just means they are that much more driven to go to YouTube on their friend's phone or, you know, at the library or, you know, somewhere else. So what might that sound like if I say so? Look, one of the things I am concerned about you coming across is pornography. It depends on the age of my kid. And I say is. Is that a word you've heard about? Is that something you know about? If not, I'm happy to talk to you about exact what that is so we can have an honest conversation about it.

I think that's incredible advice just across the board when it comes to things related to topics that are sensitive online. When you are like, do you know what this is? I'm happy to talk to you more about this. There's a good chance at some point you're going to come across it online, accidentally or otherwise. And let's talk about it before that occurs so it doesn't blindside you.

Yeah, and I know I've worked with so many parents who have found it so helpful to just say out loud to their kids. Nobody ever talked to me about this. I want to. So I'm the first person in our family history who's talking about this. So if I fumble over my words, if I look embarrassed, it's not because the topic is embarrassing. It's not because your interest in this is wrong. It's because I'm doing something that no one in our family line has ever done. So that always feels kind of tricky. And in a way, I always find naming something I'm nervous about, even not that topic. Like, I remember once in kind of a job interview just saying, I'm really excited about this job, but I'm also really nervous. So let me just take a moment. It kind of just named what was true. It eased what was happening for me. Because one of the things about our kids is we think we're talking to them about content. But what our kids are picking up on more than anything else is our tone, our pacing, our nervousness, and what actually gets encoded in their body is, oh, I'm not supposed to want to know about those things, or, oh, this is making my parent uncomfortable. So this is something that I guess is. Is bad or is wrong or I should never have been curious or want to know about in the first place. Even though usually our nervousness doesn't mean that. It just means, yeah, I'm just not so used to talking about porn with my 14 year old daughter. Like I think most people would say like if we did an Instagram poll, like, yup, not used to that. Right. And so just naming that in advance, I think both limits the likelihood that our child is going to kind of feel even more shame around this. And, and it actually makes it a lot easier for us to discuss.

I would love to hear more too about your thoughts about. As an expert on this topic. You know, as a parenting expert, what do you see as appropriate limit setting for a high school age student and how would you recommend going about that?

So if it's okay with you, I'm gonna resist the term expert. I don't know why. I really do feel I get my best thoughts from not knowing and, and being curious. So I always feel like expert as a non expert. As a non expert, I'm going to give you my thoughts. Okay. It's a little bit of a cop out answer first, but then I'm going to be more specific because I, I really don't think there's one set way. I, I really don't. Every family is different. Every kid's different. Every kid's sense of inhibition is different. Every kid's caution versus just pure exploration is different. Temperament matters, family matters. There's so many things, so there just can't be one way. What I think we want to do as early as possible is talk with our kids about tricky things and establish if there's someone in your life you can talk to about tricky topics. It's one of your parents. That doesn't mean, I think, oh, when my son's older, I hope he shares the details of his, you know, sex life with me. I'm not, no, I don't want to know that when he's older and I don't think he'll come to me with that. But when he's young, he is going to understand himself better and understand information he comes across better if we've established that these aren't unnamable things. So what I would say, ideally, starting at a young age, kids, let's say, are really curious about how babies are made. That's always the start. Usually I always think, why do our 5 year olds know about homelessness in a city? But they don't know about how babies are made. Like I don't know why these things are put off until Such a later age in so many schools and so many homes. Right. And. Or kids ask other questions, right. Like about death. Right. That's a tricky topic. And in general, I would say I want to create a home as early as possible where I say something to my kid like, I'm so glad we're talking about this. This is some of the really important stuff in life. And then I give my kid truthful information, pause, see where their questions are and go from there. Now if that's been something within your family, I think your kid, let's say at age 13, is going to be ready to consume different information than a kid who says, yeah, I've never talked about how babies are made or I've never really talked about my period. Like I don't really know the details of that. We don't really talk about what's happening and the embarrassing stories that happens. Right. Like just again these tricky, vulnerable topics. So as our kids get closer to teenage years and like you said, we're really on this project to kind of launch them into independence in a way where we feel like they're prepared for the world, then I think we do have to think about kind of dosing them with the world. What happens with shame is we can't be curious, we can't look and then we can't make good decisions. So going back more to a less cop out answer, something more specific. If I think my kid is going to have access to a phone and a computer completely on their own by 18, what I would say is again, doesn't have to be exactly age 14 or 9th grade, but our kids should start having some type of access and we should be thinking of how to help them engage with that material that they're going to have total access to by the time they're 18 years old. So what could that look like? I actually think we need to teach our kids how to engage mindfully and in a present way, which might mean actually sitting next to your kid while they, let's say, are on Snapchat. Sitting next to your kid while they're on TikTok. Let's start with that one video. One video, one video. One of the things I do try to do with my 9 year old who loves video games is set timers so he can play Madden, which isn't the same thing as TikTok, but is just again the mindlessness of the Internet. I make him pause after 30 minutes, I make him turn away his iPad and actually do 5 to 10 really deep breaths and then he checks in with himself. And he says, like, how did I feel about the time that went by? Did that go by more quickly than I thought? Am I satisfied with the amount I've played? I thought this would feel like a lot of time. Did it? Guess what? It never feels like enough. That's what these things are designed to do. But the more he combines engaging with media with in his body, practicing, pausing and checking in, I'm feeling not confident, but better that when he eventually does have permission to go on Instagram or TikTok, he's in a better position. Not because I've said to him instagram can be dangerous, but actually because he is really practicing pausing and then re engaging. So what might that look like for YouTube? Right? Teaching our kids, let's say with YouTube, asking themselves, what am I looking for? Right? I think we should all ask ourselves this before we engage with social media. What am I looking for right now? Should I set a timer? Right? Should I put in some guardrails? And maybe that's a first step. Let's look at YouTube together and just see that when you start looking for one thing, how many videos does it take before you're not looking at anything related to that at all, Right? That could be a great thing to do side by side with your daughter, right? Because what we want her to be able to do is say, I'm gonna pause this. Hold on a second. What am I watching? We want her to do that way before she gets to some suicide video or porn video. Just, I wasn't even looking for this football video at all. How did I get here? That's so protective. So I think that's a really important starting place. The other thing I think before kids start to have more access, which I do think can happen in those teenage years, is we want to make it so clear with our kids, I am someone you can talk to. When you come across something that you didn't want to see, didn't think you could see, and made you feel uncomfortable, you will not be in trouble. Those are some of the things that are the most important things to be talking about between teenager and parent. Those are going to be some of the most important conversations we ever have. Because we can't fully protect our kids from what they might see, but we can protect them from. From the aloneness of what they might see and being left to their own devices to try to make sense of something. And it's really the aloneness and something disturbing that's always more detrimental than the disturbing thing itself. Because let's just say your daughter is like, mom, I looked up this video on Alexander Hamilton and all of a sudden there were like animals and naked bodies and like all, I don't know, like something. How'd I get here? How did I get here? Right. Is that disturbing? It is. What will happen when she comes to you. I really mean this can be something incredibly resilience building. I saw something in the world that I didn't think I should see, I didn't really want to see. Now this is a point of connection with someone I feel safe with. My mom ends up saying to me, I'm so glad you came to me with this. Wow. What was that like for you? Wow. So you started watching something about Alexander Hamilton and you ended up there. Oh, that must have. I don't know what that was like. Tell me, say more. And then what happened? Oh, like there's not much to solve but there's connection to be built. And because we haven't made this off limits, she now knows it's really safe to come connect with you about this. And I'm thinking when she's 20, when she's 30, I think we want even our 30 year olds, I don't know if that point they're going to call us about something disturbing they saw on YouTube. But they might say, um, my, my boyfriend just broke up with me and I, I didn't see this coming. Right. Or I got fired from my job. And when we encode in our kids bodies early on, things that happen that feel upsetting and unexpected end up feeling a little safer when you know you have someone in your corner, then we're actually helping build a circuit that's gonna be really helpful throughout their lives.

I love that, that you're not alone.

Yeah, you're not alone. Right. And as much as I'd love to say there's a general rule of like YouTube when you're 14, Snapchat when you're 50. I really, I don't think we can. But I think the kind of more powerful question is with all of these things that my kid is interested in, if these are things my kid is going to engage in independently in a couple years, how can, how can we titrate that and how can I be part of their early consumption of these and then scaffold. Maybe it's something as simple as yeah, you can have YouTube and you can have YouTube for. I know this is gonna be annoying. You're gonna start with 10 minutes. I know you're like mom, 10 minutes. My friends can go on as much as they want. Look, 10 minutes is more than zero. And I'm trying to figure this out too. And so let's do 10 minutes today. And what I'm gonna want after is just connecting about it. Like, hey, did that thing happen that we looked at together where all of a sudden you got to something you didn't want to get to? Was there anything about that you wa to talk about? Remember, there's nothing that's going to get you in trouble. I really just want to be here for you. Right. And you'll watch how she responds. Right? And again. And Sharon, this isn't my way of saying do 10 minutes with your child on YouTube right away. I understand there's real scary things out there. Right. But I think that in general, the idea that I can't totally protect my kid forever, so let me prepare her with me kind of shifts what we might do.

So, wives, it's so true of so many life skills, like you can't stop your child from someday getting a driver's license. So we might as well learn how to operate a vehicle safely. Like we should take the classes, learn the safety rules, learn the rules of the road. And that's again, you can't keep them from ever operating a motor vehicle. They might as well learn how to do it safely while they you have the ability to impact and influence them while they're in your home.

Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I think about this a lot with Instagram too. And in terms of I put up a picture and kind of I put it up just to see how many people like it, how many people comment on it, how many friends do I have on Instagram, how much attention does it get? Right? And how we're really building this outside in system when our kids are actually just wiring their bodies for my worth is determined by other people. Right. That's terrifying from a psychological perspective for me. And I think we're all drawn to external validation. But never before have there been such powerful systems in place that we can actually be doubling down on our reliance on input from others to feel good enough inside. And so I know for me, one of the things I think about, because I think about all these 20 year olds and teenagers I've worked with in my private practice who Instagram just continues to just chip away at like their sense of who they are. And there is something I think we can really teach our kids about rather than just you can never be on Instagram, how do you decide what picture goes up? I'm Just curious, like, when you think about putting a picture up, is it from a. Oh, I really like this picture. I want my friends to see it. Is it from a. I wonder if my friends are gonna like this and think this is cool. Here's another question. Okay, this is interesting. If you put up a picture on Instagram and you like it and then nobody gives it a. Like, does it become a worse picture? Is it the same picture? Like, what do you take it down? So interesting, right? Just really teaching our kids again, actually just through questioning, not through kind of grand life lessons, but to be mindful around that. Why am I putting up this picture? Huh? And I think we know this. I can speak to this. I try to put up ideas. I'm like, I love this idea. Sometimes an idea I put up, I'm like, no one seemed to really like it. Is it a worse idea? Right. Is it a better idea if people end up liking things and passing around something that I thought was average? Right. We know intellectually the truth there, though. I think me and you probably can still be drawn into this external validation seeking arrangement that we have with our communities. And I think the best I think I can hope for in some ways is, let's say one day my daughter posts a picture, she's like, wow, no one really liked this picture, huh? Well, you know what's interesting? I like that picture. I really did. I know I liked it. That's so psychologically protective. But again, is something that we have to help our kids really develop.

Yep. One of the other skills that I have worked with my teenagers on is being super mindful about who you follow and auditing who am I following and how do I feel when I see their content? Do I immediately feel, this is so true for adults too. Do I immediately feel like, ugh, or do I immediately feel jealous? Do I immediately feel less than when I'm consuming their content? That needs to be an unfollow without a hesitation, like the chips are gonna fall where they may on that one. That is just. I'm not. I don't have time to create, voluntarily create feelings of inadequacy within myself. They're not bringing me useful, uplifting, funny, educational, whatever. Define it for yourself. Whatever your desire for content is, it's an important to me in my value system that I'm not going to spend time following them.

And I think that can be extended to this YouTube conversation. Let's pause after you've seen a few videos and just ask yourself, how do I feel right now? Am I getting What I thought I wanted. Am I feeling uncomfortable? Am I feeling like, oh, I don't really know why I'm watching this. Right. I think that's so. Right that what all forms of media can take away from us right now is our kind of willful decision making. Right. All of a sudden I'm. I keep following people who end up making me feel awful about myself, but we don't even realize it. Very rarely, it's. It' the pausing and checking in. Yes, right. Checking in. What is it like for me to consume this person's Instagram? What is it like for me to look at this video? Right. Again, just important to check in. And I think teaching our kids to do that across these platforms is. Is really the way we can protect them from being mindless consumers of either things they never wanted to see in the first place, things that are actually disturbing, or like you said, things that actually end up making them feel pretty bad about themselves.

I also love the idea of explicitly teaching your children how to use digital tools to protect their own mental health. Like how to restrict somebody on Instagram. Not just block them, but restrict them. So maybe you're worried about what would happen if you block them. They're going to notice and it's going to have social fallout at school. Well, you can restrict them and they can't. Still can't land in your DMs or.

How do I make a.

A special list of only certain people can see this content? Like those kind of tools that exist that could potentially improve or impact your child's digital mental health life?

I think that's exactly right. Because you're kind of saying these things are so powerful that unless we do put up boundaries. Right. That all of a sudden we can all be in a situation where thinking, this is not what I intended. So I think that is really empowering. You can engage in a way that feels good to you. You can put up rules, you can stop following people. You can stop people from following you or commenting on things that you do. I think that's exactly right. And I think kind of as we end, you know, one of the things I'll keep thinking about after our conversation is how can I make myself like an information source for my kid? Not the only information source, but the things they might be curious about or might end up finding online. If I've already established that that general topic is one that can really be discussed between us, they're going to be in a much better, safer place to engage with that material, to consume it, to turn away from it and to come talk to you about it.

So much non expert wisdom.

It's the best compliment I could ever get. Well, I really mean this. This is an honor. You are like a major superstar, non expert expert, total expert, whatever you like to be called in. So thank you for coming on and sharing this part of your life with me.

This was super helpful. Thank you.

I absolutely loved talking with Sharon. She is so honest and open and reflective and funny. All the things I would want in a friend. Let's tie this episode together with three main takeaways. 1. Let's think about how to prepare our kids rather than how to protect our kids. When we're in protection mode, we think about avoiding circling around the truth and making things better. When we're in preparation mode, we think about confronting the truth, talking about what's in front of us, and tolerating difficult moments together. Our kids need our help preparing for their future, including their Internet and social media use, and they can't get our help with preparation if we are in protection mode. 2. Let's say it how it is. It can feel hard to talk honestly and directly about anything that our parents didn't talk honestly and directly about with us. Common areas of awkwardness. Talking about things like sexual drugs, peer interactions, feelings. Remember this. If talking about these topics feels awkward, that's because you're doing something new, not because you're doing something wrong. 3. There's no right way to approach social media with teens. I don't want to pretend that I have all the answers. I definitely do not. I do think we want to connect with our kids. We want to include them in conversations and we want to talk to them about the things they do online. Exactly how this happens will look different in different homes. It's important to take guidance from people you respect and talk to friends you trust. But remember, no one has exact steps because there are none. Trust yourself. You're the expert on your family. Thanks for listening to Good Inside. Let's stay connected@goodinside.com you can sign up for workshops and subscribe to Good Insider, my weekly email with scripts and strategies delivered right to your inbox. And for more ideas and tips, check out my Instagram drbeckyoodinside. Good Inside is produced by Beth Rowe and Brad Gage and executive produced by Erica Belsky and me, Dr. Becky. If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review. And if you really like the episode, please share it with someone you know. Many of you tell me that sharing an episode has allowed you to start conversations about tricky topics with spouses or extended family members, and to bond and connect with fellow cycling breakers. I actually do read each and every review, so please know that your feedback is meaningful to me. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves. Even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside.