I Wish I'd Had That As A Kid

I'm Dr. Becky and this is good inside.

And then I fast forward into like now you're 25 and you are still living with me and you're playing that Nintendo Switch. You still haven't learned Japanese, but not only have you not learned Japanese, you haven't learned anything else because you're still playing Mario Party.

So I call these moments fast forward thought takeover.

And we all have them.

Me too. Your kid is struggling today. They're hesitant to join a birthday party or they don't sign up for the course they told you they want to take. And all of a sudden we flash forward and we see them as an adult who has no friends or as an adult who's lazy and never gets anything done. And it's all our fault. No wonder it's so hard to stay grounded and calm. So what can we do in those moments? How can we separate our anxiety from the actual problem in front of us? And how can we best help our child? We'll get into it after this. I'm Dr. Becky and this is good inside. I'm a clinical psychologist. I'm a mom of three and I'm on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children. I recently spoke to a mom who was visiting her parents in her childhood home in Indiana with her 12 year old son. And it was bringing up a lot of conflicted feelings about opportunities she didn't have when she was a kid and how all that she wants for her son is to take advantage of everything she can offer him.

So let's, let's jump in. Tell me.

I don't.

Tell me a little bit about you, your family and something that's on your mind.

Yeah, a little bit about me. I have a 12 year old son named Calvin and he is an only child. And I'm here in Indiana today. We're actually visiting my parents right now. And my mom was born and raised in Japan and my father is American, which means I've got a really multicultural background. And also with the other twist of growing up rural. So I had a very different upbringing of being a bit of an outsider. And by a bit I mean a lot. You know, being back here and being with my mom, I see them maybe like once a year. It's always the reminder of like how I grew up. It's always a reminder of like how I want to do things a bit differently. And yeah, I live a very different life now. You know, like my son kind of lives that. I wouldn't say urban life, but you know, the benefits of being near a city. He's very well traveled. He's got more stamps on his passport than I had before even I was 40. And so. But it's interesting coming back here. We pull up into the driveway, we drove out here to Indiana, and Calvin turns to me and says, basically, mom, you know how Obama gets. You're gonna have to be patient with her. He calls her obaba, which is Japanese for grandma. But he turns to me and he, like, kind of guides me through this. Like. Like being the one who's saying, like, just be patient with her.

I'm like, okay, and what is he. Tell me, what is he picking up on in you? Or what does he know about what it's like for you to be back in that? You know, being in our family of origin system when we are also with our kid, it's like, there's a lot going on. So. Yeah, what is that like for you?

So, so much going on. And I'm in the house. I'm in the house I grew up in as a kid. So I'm walking into rooms, and they feel different. In fact, I can't even. I was talking to my husband. I'm like, I don't know how I grew up in this house. Like, this house is the size of a postage stamp. It's about 300 degrees because my dad refuses to get air conditioning. And it's so funny, the first night I see my parents, my mom is like, oh, Calvin says he wants to take tennis lessons while he's here. And I'm like, he does? Because he's never mentioned that to me. And. And, oh, no, he wants to take tennis lessons. And all of a sudden, I'm like, transported back into my mom pushing sports on me. And I'm just like, oh, God, now I just feel like she's transferring her tennis hopes and dreams onto her grandson. And I'm just like, mom, he just wants to play tennis with you. He doesn't want to go out and take lessons. Like, why don't you just go hit a tennis ball with him? And I can just feel myself, like, I'm, like, instantly transported into being, like, I don't know, 15 again, where I'm just like, you know, I'm not a super athletic person. I, you know, sort of came to it on my own. Things like running, and my mom just, like, kept pushing these things on me. And I try really hard with. With my son to not do that. Pick something. Pick an activity. I don't care. But I'm not going to push you into competitive sports. And I'm not going to push you into anything.

One of the things you're saying that resonates with me a lot is there's times when we're with our family of origin and our kids where really there's like, confusion. It's like, wait, am I reacting for my kid? Is this me as a kid? What's me? What's my kid? Like, what year is it? Am I the parent? Am I the child? What is happening right now?

Definitely interesting. We started talking about tennis and having things pushed on you. Because what I find myself doing is pushing. You know, even though I'm telling you right now as I go, I'm not pushing sports on Calvin. What I do end up pushing on Calvin are things like reading. The reason why I'm bringing this up is that if Calvin even just says, oh, I'm. Oh, I'm very interested in African art, like, I'll run out and, like, buy a bunch of African art books or buy. Or just. Or, you know, just, you know, I'll start throwing things out, like, just throwing opportunities at him. And then he feels overwhelmed. You know, I've signed him up for Japanese lessons because once he said he was interested in Japanese lessons, and I'm like, I'm going to give him an opportunity. Because when I was growing up, I didn't have that. This comes from growing up in a rural area when we didn't. And I grew up at a time there wasn't any Internet of feeling. Like I didn't have a lot of opportunities. I had to make things happen.

Yeah, well, no, it sounds like. And tell me this is right. Like, you wanted things that you didn't have access to when you were a kid. Do you remember those wants?

Oh, absolutely. I remember when I was in elementary school, I wanted to learn French so badly, and that just wasn't an offering. I had, like, birthday allowance money, and I bought a French dictionary. And I didn't realize because I was so young at the time that you can't just string together words from a dictionary. And I remember trying to get a French pen pal, and I just gave up on it because it was obvious, like, I didn't have anybody to do this with and I didn't have the resources.

That really strikes me. Like, there was just this wall. Like, you. It sounds like you're actually pretty independent and resourceful, and that takes a lot of motivation and. Right. A lot of confidence. Like, I'm gonna go put things in order for myself, and I'm Gonna really hunker down. And then I was like, wait, this isn't the thing and the thing that will really help me. It's literally not a possibility. I'm now at a wall. I have a wall.

Exactly. I've had to work through a lot of resentments. I mean, 10 years ago, I probably would have completely gone off, but I just felt like I just couldn't go further with any dream that I had or any. You know. And for the record, I still can't speak French. It never happened.

Well, I'm gonna actually. I think we're gonna end up circling back to that. And to me, the reason it's so important to understand our past is not because there's something magical that happens when we talk about our past. And then there's rainbows and unicorns. That's not the case at all. But our past often lives itself out in our present. And if we don't go back to the source, then we're actually not living in the moment. As a parent with a kid, we're actually reliving something old. And nobody thinks that's productive. So it's. So now you're in Calvin's room, and he says, kind of off to the side. Maybe he doesn't even wholeheartedly believe it. He's like, oh, mom, I want to learn Japanese. Or, mom, I'm interested in electrical circuits. Okay. So you hear this, and I'm just now transported back to your childhood. You have an interest. You take your body to the store with money you've saved. You find the right book, you take your body back. You open up like, there's so many points of action to try to turn this desire into a behavior. And what happens in that moment with Calvin? He says, I want to learn Japanese. And what do you think goes on for you? If we had a movie and we, like, paused and we, like, looked inside your body, like, what? What's happening?

Oh, I think it's joy for him. And to be clear, when he says, like, oh, I want to do this, I'm like, oh, my goodness. Like, oh, you want to do something? You've got a dream. Okay. How can I best support you in that dream? And so immediately I'm like, how do I quickly nurture this? Yeah. It's like, no, but it's like, how can I nurture and encourage and interest and living where we live? It's like, oh, well, there's so many opportunities. There's so many resources.

Yes. What would have been like for you? Let's even Take the French example. I'm sure there are other examples. What would have happened if that interest was paired with opportunity and support from your parents?

Oh, then you're talking about, like, oh, what would my life have been like then? Oh, well, what if. What if somebody had actually helped really guide me through. Through college application process? What if there was a French tutor? And then you start to, you know. And it's not like I spend my days, you know, wistfully thinking about, you know, my life in Paris, but I'm just like, oh, could my life have been so much more richer? Could something else have happened? And it's not that I'm unhappy with my life now, but that's important.

So let's pause on that, because when you think about what would have happened if I had access to a French class and support, your mind does naturally travel. Oh, what would it have been like if I had access to support and. And resources to turn my desire into outcomes? It's amazing. It's really interesting.

Right.

You were this kid with such motivation and such persistence, and there was a limit because the resources weren't always a match.

Yeah. And I have found ways like, my life is fine. Like, my life is one. It's not fine. My life is wonderful. So it wasn't like, oh, woe is me. But it's sort of. When you have sort of like a dream that you feel like you could have fueled a bit more, you can't help but to wonder, sort of like, oh, well, what if?

Of course, there's loss. When we become parents and we see what we're able to give our kids, if those things weren't given to us, there's really understandable loss there. Two things can be true, right? We can appreciate a life we have now and mourn a life we didn't have. We can feel grateful for all we have today, so. Or even all we even had in a childhood and be sad about the things we didn't have. And especially if we're parenting a kid who has a version of a life that we didn't have and would have wanted or wished for. If we don't actually attend to the feelings of loss, we better bet those feelings will be acted out in any anger toward our child for not taking advantage of the opportunities that they may or may not even want, but we actually did want for ourselves.

Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's. That's absolutely right.

If. If we go back to Calvin's room and he says, you know, he says, oh, Mom, I think Japanese is Interesting, right? Sometimes it can be as little as that. And we're like, oh, we activate. Here's the irony. You didn't have a lot of resources. You had a lot of independence and motivation. Your child seems to have many more resources and much less independence and motivation. Right. In some ways you activate for him. You hear he likes Japanese. You're like, I could put it all in place.

Yeah, that's exactly it.

And, and not only I think is it important to think about your own trigger just because it doesn't feel good for us as parents to show up and yell and say these things. Right. That just doesn't feel good for us. So that'll end up feeling better for you. Also, my guess is side by side, it's gonna be helpful for Calvin in his life to start pairing his interest with his own planning and activation, not to learn that when I get interested in something, my parent activates and puts a plan in place for me. Like none of us want that for our kids when they're 30.

Yeah, yeah. It's funny you bring this up because a couple of weeks ago Calvin was telling my husband, every time I tell you and mom I have an interest, it's like you do too much for it. And then I feel pressure.

First of all, I think that just says so much about your son that he can articulate that. Such impressive self reflection. When I express an interest, it kind of goes from interest to pressure for me. And then I don't know if he said this, but what I hear you saying is interest, pressure, loss of interest. And I think like I'm familiar with this. I think we all are as adults, like if you say to, I don't know, a partner, you know, I really want to get up early and start working out. And then they're like, yeah, yeah, do that. You should do that. You're going to wake up tomorrow, you're like, I'm not working out. Like, right. Like it just left. Like somehow it was my interest. And then something happened where my interest entered your body and you co opted it as your own. Now, well, there's none left for me. So I'm just left here doing nothing.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean as a parent, when we see this with our kids, like it can feel juvenile. Like it can feel like they're just giving us a hard time. Okay, fine. So I signed you up from a class, but now you're not interested. Right. It can seem like they're almost like making a big deal out of nothing. But there's a really like deep existential, almost like thread here, where being interested in something, it enlivens you. Like as a person. You're like, wow, like, I feel alive. This is my thing, this is my interest. It lives in my body. Watching someone else take it over, that is also a loss because like, where did I go now? My thing just became your thing. And what am I left with? I guess I'm left with nothing. And so there's a conundrum as a parent. Cause something you said earlier really stuck with me. How do we support our kids in their interest? But I think the next question is, how do I support but not take over? How do I support but not co opt? What does it really mean? Your son's kind of letting you know, I need the two of you to redefine what you think of as support so I can maintain my interest and motivation. I. Let's do that together. My son says, I'm interested in Japanese. So if on one side we have, oh, that's amazing. Guess what? I signed you up from a class and it starts tomorrow and I'm gonna drive you there. And I even packed you a snack and here's some books. Okay, that's like, maybe. Okay, so maybe that's like more toward the taking over side and I'm gonna just give you the bookends. And the other end is, well, I don't care. Like, well, go figure it out yourself. And you know, nobody cares what you have to say. Okay, those are our two N's. What's in the middle?

Yeah, and I think the gap that's missing is, is the conversation and the feedback. And I think, and also giving enough, what I would call like an opt out. So in other words, like the one extreme that you described, which is probably, I don't think I go that overboard, but I'm sure that I do. Like, I'm interested in Japanese. Okay, well now I'm going to get on this computer now and I'm going to like look up, oh, are there online Japanese classes? And then I start researching it. But before I even do that is the question of, you want to learn Japanese? Like, all right, what do you want to do with that?

And just, just, just pause there. Cause actually I think it's a really underutilized skill as a parent. Me too. I'm all talk. I don't do this enough with my own kids. Okay, Mom, I want to learn Japanese. Just listen to me. You want to learn Japanese? No one can see this but you. I'm zipping my mouth. It's really the essence of reflective listening. Maybe if I'm going to add. And tell me what he'd say after this. Oh, you want to learn Japanese, Calvin? Tell me more about that. Okay. You play Calvin. What would he say?

I want to be able to talk to my relatives.

Wow, that's really cool that you're interested in that.

Maybe there's some words I can learn.

Yeah, that seems like a great place to start. And look, Calvin, I'm just telling you. I totally see. I could sign you up for that class or we can make this a bigger thing. And I'm working on letting you figure out next steps that you want to take. Because after all, this started from your interest. And I want it to remain your interest, not mine. So let me know if there's ways you want me to help you turn that interest into some next step. I'm here to help. But I also know you're a really smart, capable kid. And you probably also know some of the resources out there. So maybe you could take that next step and then let me know how I can support you.

Okay, Mom. And then he'll probably. He could say, you know, I could never hear from him again. And that's fine.

This is great. I'm so glad you went there. But it's fine. And let's be honest, like, it's not totally fine. We're like, oh, shoot, did I. What if I had signed him up? Because here's a much bigger picture for us to think about, right? Everything I think about with parenting, like, I'm thinking about now, but I often do with my own kids, think they're out of childhood for way longer than they're in childhood. They're gonna be living outta my house way longer than in my house. So I like to think about, like, the process more than the outcome. Cause whether or not I get my kid to sign up to learn Japanese today, like, okay, years 18 and above, they're making those decisions. But how cool if I can help my kid learn a process where they pair their interest with taking an actionable step and maintaining their interest, and then maybe taking another actionable step if I can have any impact on my child building what I call that circuit that is going to be more helpful for my child in life than whether or not they took a Japanese class at age 12. So let's play that out, because now we're gonna kind of intersect this intervention with our own triggers, right? And that's where all the magic always happens, right? So I had this great conversation, and I Finished. I'm like, wow, I crushed that moment of parenting. That felt uncomfortable, but it was new. I expressed interest and, and I expressed support, but I didn't take over. But now it's three days later and he hasn't done anything. And I'm like, this too. I can veer toward the more controlling side after three days. Like, I actually can feel in my body, my heart racing. Like, I'm like, oh my God. He didn't sign up though. He didn't ask me to sign up. And he never bought that book. And I did this intervention and he didn't do anything. This is my trigger, this is my struggle. I think in that moment, one of the things that's powerful to consider and I wanna hear from you about this is what fast forward error am I having. I'm in the moment where he didn't yet sign up for a Japanese class or a book. And if this is so triggering to me, three days later, I've probably fast forwarded my kids lives like, I don't know, six months or a couple years. And I've predicted, I don't know, like, they're like a good for nothing person who will never be able to do it. I don't know. So tell me, where does your fast forward thought go?

Yeah, my fast forward thought I would probably see him playing his Nintendo Switch. And then I fast forward into like, now you're 25 and you are still living with me and you're playing that Nintendo Switch. You still haven't learned Japanese, but not only have you not learned Japanese, you haven't learned anything else because you're still playing Mario Party.

Yeah.

Great.

Just noticing that is huge. Whenever we notice a worry we have, we make it much less likely that that worry converts into something we scream or into some behavior.

Right.

Noticing a worry or noticing a feeling makes it less likely to act itself out. There's just so much power there. Wow. All of a sudden, Kelvin's 25. He never went to college, he never got a job, he never learned anything. He's just playing Switch. Okay. And you're laughing as I say that, which is great because we're like, whoa. Like, how did he just go from 12 to 25? Like in the matter of a, like a moment, like, and then after we notice our fast forward thought, like, we can just come back to the moment. Like, I really, in my own house, I put my hand on my heart. I try to actually put my feet on the ground and I just say, okay, Becky, today is. And I say the date and then I generally use this mantra around my own triggers when I can remember it. Like, I'm safe. This is not an emergency. I'm gonna figure this out. And then maybe as a next step, I'd reflect, okay, am I, am I worried about the amount of video games he plays separate from Japanese? Is that something I want to reassess? Is that something I'm saying separate from whether he signs up for the class or not? I really do think we have to have a conversation about not doing video games right after school or only doing it in these situations just to leave space in his life for other interests, for being bored enough to try something else.

Right.

For, for maybe. But maybe I even say to myself, I actually. No, like, I actually feel pretty good about that. Maybe he's just letting me know right now that he was interested three days ago and right now he's not. And maybe the answer is to talk with him about that. Maybe the answer, if I know I've maybe overstepped my boundaries with him in the past around his interest is just to say nothing and get on the phone and text a friend saying, please remind me that my son one day is, is going to be a functioning member of society.

Yeah. And sort of an aha moment when you were talking about that is really separating out the ability to separate out these things. Because what's happening is like, here is ambition and dream and desire, and that's one thing. And then. But it's really hard when I'm seeing video games because I'm just like, I just feel like video games are just to me, this lazy entertainment and you're not. You know, I just, I walk past and I just like, see a video game. And like, to me, that's kind of a trigger for me, that fast forward trigger of like, oh, God, I just see a video game console and all I'm imagining is you're still living here. And it's like, but those are, these two are two different things. Like doing nothing with Japanese. Like, you know, this, this is here. Video games are here. And I. And also, it's just so easy as an adult. You get on that adult treadmill. And I sometimes I just take Calvin along with me mentally and I'm just.

Like, oh, I got to work, I.

Got to do this and that, and it's easy to forget. Like, and also he's 12, so he's not going to go get a briefcase and go to work.

That's exactly right. Right. And I think I said we would circle back to this and it's on my mind now. I'm curious about the conversation between you and Calvin that looks something like this. Hey, you know how we've talked about your interest in Japanese, and in the past you've said you wanted to learn more, and maybe it's kind of paused for now.

Yeah.

Interests can do that. You know, sometimes we want to take a next step, sometimes we don't. You know, one of the things I realized part of the way I react to you is based on the fact that I was never presented these opportunities. And you know what I'm going to do? I signed up for a French class for myself. That's something I always wanted access to and I never had. And I also know the more I really pay attention to the things I've always wanted and wasn't able to get and maybe start to give myself some of those things now I'll probably be able to show up in a more grounded way with you. So I just wanted to let you know that's happening. Tell me about that.

Yeah, I mean, so rarely do I speak to Calvin about my own dreams and ambition and not even ambition, honestly, because it's not like, oh, God, I'm going to go sign up for French. I'm going to go work at the French Embassy. Like, I'm not going to do that. But I think also being able to demonstrate doing something that's just kind of like, for fun, like, I don't have to do this.

Yeah. Our unmet needs, or even our unmet interests, our unlived dreams, they haunt our parenting. And one way to look at that is, oh, look how triggered I am with my kid. I'm an awful parent. Another way to look at that, which I much prefer because it feels actually empowering instead of shaming, is, I wonder what these moments are telling me that I always wanted and I'm still waiting for. And what if now I'm adult enough to give that to myself? I actually think it'll benefit our parenting immensely because, again, we can finally then distinguish past from present. But more importantly, it just feels good to give yourself the things that you've always wanted and haven't yet explored. And I think that the point of taking French class in adulthood.

Right.

Is just that. It's. That this is not so outcome driven. This is an interest. And you're pairing an interest with activating that interest.

Yeah. And also being very real. My parents couldn't quite nurture that. That whole French thing, it's. They also nurtured other things, too. And so I Think it's easy to look back at our own, you know, looking back at my past, my childhood, and be like, oh, I can only see this, this narrative. And I'm like, well, that was part of. Wasn't the whole thing.

Yes. And right there you're speaking to, you know, our childhoods were nuanced. Right. And I think the thing with our triggers that's the most powerful reframe is when we start to look at our triggers with our kids as moments that really almost teach us what probably a part of us is looking for in ourselves. Right. Instead of looking to change our kid about the thing we're triggered by, oh, if only he just had more follow through. If we say, whoa, whoa, whoa, some circuit is activating in my body. That circuit was probably there before my child even existed. So this is probably less to do with my child than it is with me. But not from a what is wrong with me? Place from a, oh, is my body giving me clues to something I might need and just see what that's like. And then I do think you and Calvin in a calm moment, not in a triggered moment, in a hey, I just wanted to share something with you I've never shared with you before moment to talk to him about these dynamics. It really leads to so much trust and connection to have these important conversations between a parent and a child. And it's so then relieving too. It's not some secret, it's not some burden. It's just out in the open because it's powerful for a 12 year old to be able to say, hey, mom, I think this is your hope, not mine. I know I'm interested. And you're doing that thing you can do where you can change it from interest to pressure. And for both of our sake, please back away so it can stay as my interest. Like, we want our kids to call us out on that a little bit. And so those foundational conversations really allow for those moments.

Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you for your openness and, you know, and your willingness to have this conversation and truly would love to hear how things go in a little bit.

Awesome. Thank you so much, Dr. Becky.

Thanks for listening.

To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com backslash podcast. You could also write me@podcastoodinside.com parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world. And parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts. You trust with a global community of like viewers, valued parents. It's totally game changing. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsome at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhee, Julia Natt and Kristin Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, Jill Cromwell Wang, Ashley Valenzuela and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain Good Inside.

Sa.