Motherhood: A Hero's Journey

I'm Dr. Becky, and this is good inside. Jessi Klein is a writer, producer, stand up, and the author of the fantastic book I'll Show Myself Essays on Midlife and Motherhood. Not only is it hilarious, it's also very poignant. And I think many moms who read it will feel very seen.

Motherhood is like a hero's journey. We think about the stories of, like, adventures, you know, and, like, saving Private Ryan and war stories, and, like, someone is saving lives. And the thing about being the mother of or the parent of a very small child is 24 hours a day, you have to be sort of passively saving their life, right? You're like, I have to make sure 24 hours a day you don't eat a penny and choke to death on a penny. And so my vigilance is the same as if I was in a life and death situation. But none of my surroundings look like what I've been taught. A life or death situation, adventure, heroic moment. Looks like I've just been taught that this all looks boring to people.

Jesse and I are about to get real about motherhood. You don't want to miss it. We'll be right back. Let's just jump right into it. And I'm going to start by reading something you wrote. Becoming a mother alters every inch of your body, your routine, your soul, your heart. There's so many different solid questions to that, but, yeah, tell me where your mind goes. I mean, those are your words. So where do you go next?

You know, that was just spiritual speaking. From my experience, the kind of full body truth of it, My son is 8 years old now. He just turned 8. And I wouldn't change a word of how that feels. It still feels that way to me. It feels like fully. You have to kind of butterfly out of what you were. I can't speak for other people, but I just feel like I. I kind of have had to become mostly a different kind of person than what I was.

But no one says that, right? Like, you're pregnant, and they're like the baby. And do you have swaddles? And what kind of bottle are you using? Are you breastfeeding? Are you bottle feeding? Where are you giving birth? What are you gonna name the baby? Right? Like, no one says, hey, just a little FYI, becoming a mother alters every inch of your body, your routine, your soul, your heart. Just tuck that. Just t. You might. You might need it. It'll normalize some of.

Yeah, there's a lot of focus. I just remember. Yeah. When I was pregnant. There's so many lists, right. Like you. There's a lot of passing along of the lists of things that you need for the baby. There's your. Your registry. If you're doing one of those, there's, like, what to pack for the hospital. And it just, like, lists and lists and lists, but this big sort of explosive truth about what's going to happen to your, like, heart and soul as it regards yourself feels very unaddressed. I think that was a lot of what really made me want to write this book.

Yeah. You know, one of the things I always hold dear is, like, true throughout every area of my life is we can't change the hard. We can change the alone. And being surprised by a truth or by an experience. There's such an aloneness when you're surprised. Right? Like, why didn't anyone tell me this? And am I feeling this way? And no one talks about this. And then we do this thing where it's like, well, we must be the only person who has that thing where your book and I want you to kind of speak about this and your sharing of your experiences. It doesn't change the heart, but it definitely will change the alone for anyone who reads it.

That was my hope, and it's been really nice to gather. I did get a lot of feedback from mostly mothers, a few dads, but a lot of women wrote to me on Instagram and just said the phrase that kept coming up over and over again was, I feel seen, I feel less alone. And that's the greatest gift as a writer I could ever receive. And really was. Yeah, I just didn't feel like there was a book that was really about the mother's emotional, emotional journey as a full human being outside, like, after having a baby. And it feels kind of built into the system for a million reasons that I bet you could probably articulate better than I could about just why so many kind of core, hard, dark truths about being a mother are, like, unspoken and unshared.

When did it hit you in the face? Was it like labor? Was it a week after? Was it six months in? You know, like, when you're like, wow, everything has changed. This is so hard. I feel shook kind of to the core. Yeah, like, when. When was the first moment?

I think really it was. I mean, even just being in the hospital, like, I wrote a chapter called the Underwear Sandwich where, you know, the labor nurse, God bless them all, like, comes into my room in the middle of the night and is like, okay, I'm going to show you how to make an underwear sandw. I was like, what are you talking about? And I did know, you know that you're going to be bleeding. And I knew about that, but I didn't know about the kind of level of equipment and in singing you have to make an underwear sandwich with your witch hazel pads and your mesh underwear and an ice pack and then squirty bottle and all of these things and how hard it is when you just don't want to move, but you're in so much pain. So the underwear sandwich moment was sort of the like kind of a almost comedic one. But then I would say, yeah, just from the moment I got home that whole first week, realizing that breastfeeding was essentially like an around the clock, like non stop, almost every minute moment, like just being trapped kind of in the bed, I was like, oh. I was, what is happening? I'm a writer. I used to do stand up. I'm like a gal about town. And now I have this velcro pillow around me like kind of 24 hours a day. I was suffering with postpartum depression, not surprisingly. It's just a huge. I was like, where, where am I? When do I ever come back? So I would say it was kind of pretty instant.

Yeah. Just to double click on the breastfeeding thing for me and for anyone listening. Right. I too was like. I mean, I was a girl about town. Never after. Like never after like 10pm so you can't really be so about town.

Yeah, girl about town. Girl about town. With an end date. With an end time. Yes.

Like I like to go out to lunch. Okay. That was the kind of get a.

Coffee here and there, a white wine lunch. Yes.

So that's the kind of person I was. But that actually was a thing for me. And I used to say that, like, I loved that. Like on a nice day I could be like, I'm gonna go get a nice coffee and I could like go and treat myself to that. Right. So let's just take that. I could go get a nice coffee. I could go say hi to a friend. I'm gonna go do X. Right. And. And to me the visual of that is like I'm sitting on my couch and like I have this idea or maybe it's a want, earn urge. And then I'm like, oh, and you can see me. And then I'm like up and I'm gonna like go to my car. I live in the city, so I'd go walk. And then I'd like that urge and desire in my body, I was able to meet with movement and an action to then go express that urge or fulfill that desire. And then in some ways, like, the loop was closed. I did the thing I wanted to do, and then I'd walk. I'd probably see people. I'd probably, you know, I don't know, have some social interaction. I'd move my body. We all know that's good. And then I'd return, and I'm like, look at me. I'm a girl about town. I got myself a nice coffee. It's been a crazy, crazy Saturday afternoon. Okay, so now you have a baby. And you're like, I would like a nice coffee, right? Maybe you're just, like, so overwhelmed. You're like, I don't even know what I want. But, like, if you are lucky enough to remember what you want, you might be like me and be like, I want a nice coffee. And I'm sitting on my couch again, and I have this inkling, which I'm also so accustomed to, like, kind of pairing with movement and action and, like, fulfilling that loop. And instead. Jesse, Right? Instead. What? What. What instead is the experience?

Like, I mean, I don't. I hate to use this term, but I guess we'll just. I mean, I just felt like I was in, like, jail. Like, you can't move. The thing that was so shocking was. Was truly like, I had been told, like, you have to feed your newborn. I think I'm remembering this right, but it's like, every. Basically every 90 minutes, they need to. They need to eat. If they're awake or even if they're asleep, you kind of have to wake them up. But what I didn't know was that it was like, it's every 90 minutes from when they last started, not from when they finished. And then my son was just, like, the slowest, Just like. Like a. Like an old man at a. Like an Atlantic City buffet. Just, like, just slowly cruising around. And the feed itself would take to get him to do it, and learning how to do it would take about an hour and a half. And then I was like, oh, my God, now I have to. But now I'm starting again. It was just insane. It felt. It really felt like I was trapped, right?

So then if you think about the huge gap between, like, I want to go out of my house, I want to go check this thing off, I want to get something for myself, then I have the freedom of movement to go do that and complete the action and have the fulfillment and maybe wash, rinse, repeat. Again, instead of that, and this is obviously just such a small example of it, but instead of that, you're like, oh, like, you're just like. You kind of sink back to your couch, like, kind of defeated. Even if, like, your baby, you're like, I'm defeated just because I was like, I guess I can't do that thing I wanted to do and so used to doing. I have this. This baby I'm feeding. And I think something that was surprising for me was how hard feeding was. Like, no one told you. It's just like, it's hard. It's a struggle. It's like, they might be crying, and you're like, I literally just want to be getting my lattes.

Yeah, please. Right.

Instead, they're crying. It's so different. None of that kind of fulfillment happens of, like, you're in that moment. Desire. And instead. Right. You are responsible for, like, sustaining this human through food. Right. Like, that's right.

I mean, over and over. It's your only job. And to be very clear, I wanted more than that latte. I really. I was like, I need a drink, which I did occasionally allow myself to have. And I. I also want to. I feel like it's just important to say, too, because I feel very strongly about the pressure that exists on mothers now to, like, exclusively breastfeed or honestly breastfeed at all. And I just. I just wanted to take the moment while we're in this kind of visual to say, I'm such a believer in dumping those pressures right out the door. And I gave my son formula from, like, day one. Basically. I wasn't making enough milk for him. And I just. It was. And then I also. I breastfed until he was like, eight months. And I was like, I'm done.

I want to jump into something you just said, because I want to double click on it. I'm the same way. I gave part formula, part right from day one. But it's so interesting how insidious this narrative is, because what you said, Jesse, is something I say to people, too. I wasn't producing enough. Right. Just. It is also. Okay, just be like, I am giving my kid part formula, all formula, period, period, period.

Absolutely. Period, Period. Yeah. And what was really shocking to me also was, like, very good friends of mine, very educated women, very feminist women, like, extremely independent women, outspoken women, all fell sort of victim to the same shame and guilt about the breastfeeding of it all. I know a couple of friends who were pushing themselves to the point of just. I don't. A nervous Breakdown about, I can't give my baby formula, but my baby is coming close to not thriving.

And.

And it was so shocking to me. If I have, like, one thing that I want women to know, it's just like, if you just gave your baby formula, it would be fine. It would be fine.

I mean, maybe even break. Like what I often say. I. Yes, I often think that that stress, that panic, that total spiral into the abyss that moms can go into around breastfeeding. I have a think, like, what if you're just giving your baby liquid cortisol? Like, that's literally what's coming through your breast milk? Like, I don't know anyone who's like, that would be great. Right? What any child needs more than anything else at any stage of their development is the sturdiest parent possible. That's really what they need. Because that is actually how you form the best bond with your child, the secure attachment with your child. Right. And that is the end goal. And then the conduits we all have to get there are different for everyone. For some people, breastfeeding, they're like, I love the way I showed up and how that bothered me. Amazing. And if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, my goodness, I am just like Jesse and Dr. Becky. And for various reasons, like, formula made more sense part whole. Any of it, that could be the best decision you've ever made.

Because it's such a bummer to feel like, like you're missing out on being able to enjoy any of it. And I will say, also my experience was. And the headline for me is I went into having a child as someone who was, first of all, ambivalent about whether I was going to have a child most of my life. But I just knew I was never going to be a baby. I knew, like, my time to shine to whatever degree I'm ever going to shine as a mother would be like six and up. So it's very. I was having a hard time enjoying babyhood anyway, but I feel like just because the sleep, all of it. But I think if I had also allowed myself to kind of fully buy into the crushing pressure to only have my baby survive on milk I was making, I honestly don't know that I'd be alive. It feels awful when I see women posting on Facebook. I'm still in a lot of mom Facebook groups, which have been such a savior for me over these many years. I still see women in knots about it. It makes me so sad. I wish we could release everybody from that judgment.

I think this is connected, though, right from the start to so many other things you talk about. Right. I think this big theme is the ways we've unconsciously defined good motherhood and how linked it is to sacrifice. And as soon as you say it, I think most of us hear that, we're like, what? That's messed up. Why should. But it's actually really linked to so many of the things that we assume, quote, good moms do. Right? So again, we're not talking about breastfeeding only. We're talking about the sacrifice of, I don't know, essentially becoming a very, very torn down version of yourself for supposedly the betterment of your child. Like, in some ways we're saying, oh, being a good mom is becoming the smallest, weakest, most tortured part of yourself. Like, that's, that's really what we're saying. Right. And I think one of the things you talk about in so many areas of your book or like, I don't think you say this explicitly is like, good motherhood, good parenthood is not defined by, like, any single action. And actually every parent does a range of things. And this is what I want you to do. Has a range of struggles, has a range of thoughts. Right? You say unimaginal thoughts. We have, yes. All of us have moments where we find ourselves imagining that we are capable of doing unimaginable things. We don't talk about this enough. These are your words. We just live with the secret feeling of being guilty. Little monsters. Tell me about this.

Well, you know, and again, I want to caveat it by saying, like, this is going to sound dark. And at the same time, I don't want to caveat anything because I feel like one of the traps of how we've landed here is that women aren't allowed to talk about the dark side of motherhood and the dark feelings we have. And that's why then when you have them to your point about feeling alone, because we're not allowed to talk about them, we all feel alone. But. So the caveat, dark thing that I wrote about in the book is just to say, you know, at least I gave birth in New York. Don't know if this is a national thing, but when I left the hospital, they, like, meet, they give you a pamphlet that you must sign or something that you've read about shaken baby syndrome. Everyone gets a pamphlet about shaken baby syndrome. And you have to read it and acknowledge you've accepted it and seen it. And, and the reason for that is not because, like, only one person in the history of the world has ever accidentally, like, really hurt their baby. It's because they know, like, something is going to come up where you're going to probably lose it. You need to know, like, everyone needs to know this. And when you can lens like, yes, we're all going to, like, reach our limits. That's what I talk about in the book a lot is for me, motherhood has been a journey of just feeling like, oh, my God, I'm at my limit. Like, and you obviously. And this is why you and your work means so much to me. Hearing you over these last few years sort of talk about how we all reach our limits and that that's okay and how do we handle that without hurting anyone and also how do we handle it and take care of ourselves feels. I just think that notion that, like, women are supposed to be limitless is so deeply threaded into everything about patriarchy. We all have limits. We just do.

You know what's interesting? My thought, as you said that I never thought about it until this very moment. Women being limitless is just saying women are boundaryless. Women have no boundaries for themselves.

Yes.

Because one of the reasons we feel like I'm at my limit is we haven't. We haven't learned that it's okay to set a boundary sooner.

Yes.

Yeah. Right. That we are supposed to do everything for everyone and meet everyone's needs and always be patient and always be caregiving. Right. And then, yeah. It's no wonder why we have certain moments. We're like, okay, I guess I have found the limit. Or maybe the limit is just smack me in the face. I haven't even found it. It's just smacked me in the face.

I mean, I will say too. And I wrote a little bit about this in the book, too. I had a really amazing OBGYN Dr. Shout out Dr. Tanisangvi. At some point, she had been talking to me about. She's like, would you guys be able to hire a night nurse after the baby comes? Because we really didn't have family available to help us. And I had a lot of guilt about the idea. I'm like, what's. Who hires a night nurse? Like, that's for rich people. That's so indulgent. Why am I having a kid if I'm not going to take care of the kid myself? And she was like, stop right there. She's like, we are not living the way we were evolved to live where you are in a village and you are giving birth when you're 18 and you've got a grandparent, a great grandparent, maybe even a great, great grandparent in a village of people who are all relieving you at various times. We're living in this way where we were never intended to spend this many hours straight without relief with babies and small children. And that was such a revelation for me. I was like, wait. I was like, Dr. Tony, that makes a ton of sense in the modern world. She's like, we're just so much more isolated than we ever would have been. And I think just bringing it back to the idea of limits, like, I do naturally feel like, especially when my child was that age, you know, a baby toddler, I was kind of like, two hours is when I start to feel my. Myself starting to crumple, just even from the boredom alone. And again, I. I'm always worried when I say these things that people are gonna hate me. But I. I think I've had enough encounters with other moms where people are just like, yeah, that's how I feel too. And it's not everyone, but I think.

It'S a lot of people, so say more. Paint the picture of that boredom. I'll jump into. So I won't even leave you alone in this conversation, but I know someone's listening, being like, I hope she.

Oh, I could go on way longer than this. Talk about boredom. Become a very boring podcast to keep describing it. But the one. The image in my mind of when my son was, like, 2 and 3 years old, was he his favorite? He just loved cars, and he loved to play cars. And somehow, and I don't. His dad's not super into cars. Cars became it. Loved cars. Just wanted to push cars on the ground. And he, because we live in la, he got obsessed, I guess, with playing parking. And then he wanted to park the cars. And it's like, what's more nightmarish than parking? Trying to find parking in real life is just playing parking for hours on end. Hours and hours on end. And it sort of brought back that newborn baby feeling of being strapped into the nursing pillow where I'm sitting on the floor. It's Saturday, so, like, no one's coming to help. There's no preschool. And we've been up since, I'm gonna say, 5am because my son's always an early riser. And it's like, now 10am We've been up for five hours, and we've been playing parking for, like, three, and it's 10, and he doesn't want to stop. And you're just like, how will this ever end? I'm not enjoying this. I don't like being a mom. Am I a bad person? I feel like I've seen diaper commercials or other commercials where it looks like women are enjoying this and I'm not. And then this is controversial too, but I have a chapter in the book about how if we got to the afternoon, that is when I would be like, I'm having a drink. I need one drink to get through this, or maybe even one and a half, because I have not just reached my limit. I've now evaporated so far past my limit.

Well, okay, you've just said everything someone could say in a whole narrative where I would like to go back and kind of click on a couple different things. So I'm going to click. Okay, okay. First of all, when my friends asked me what it was like to become a mom because I had my first pretty, young, and at least in my circle of friends, young. And so they all treated me like I was like the first human to, like, ever have a child ever. Like, oh, my God. And I've always. I don't know, I've always just kind of said things how I've seen them. I'm not like someone who sugarcoats things. So whenever they said, how is being a mom? Like, how would you describe it? Cause, like, I'm gonna get pregnant soon, whatever. I'd always say it is the most interesting combination of insanely demanding and insanely mind numbing. And I've just never experienced those two things at the same time. And that's the. That's exactly, I think what you're talking about. We're not used to that. Becoming a parent. Like, you have things that are demanding, but when they're demanding, they're, like, interesting and they're kind of provocative. And then you have things that are. Are mind numbing. And like, those tend to actually be, like, relatively easy tasks to do, but, like, they're just mind numbing. But to have something that is demanding and totally exhausting and at the same time so monotonous and mind numbing, I think is like a very new experience for our body. And so that is what so much for me at least, of what early parenthood was like. And then what you're saying two years later, two hours of a certain type of play with your child, if it's not aligned with your interest, if you are a car aficionado, you might have loved it. I don't know. You know, never know. It could have been a good match. But often it's not aligned. And the thing about that, that I found interesting about what you said, right, is if for a moment you imagine yourself being there and you just say to yourself, like, I'm not enjoying this. I find this pretty boring. And then you just kind of watch that thought. The thought on its own doesn't actually give us a lot of distress. It's like, well, I guess it's as distressing as the thought of anything boring. It's just unenjoyable. The thought that gives us distress is, is that the fact that I find this boring and mind numbing makes me a bad parent. And to me, this is like the core thing that I like to talk about, which is the way we collapse behavior or thoughts or feelings into identity. I'm thinking this. It makes me a bad mom, right? To some degree. Again, good mom is equated to sacrifice. Or I just love doing whatever my kid loves to do, in which case we're talking about a person with no limits. Because there's actually no boundary between what I like to do as an adult woman, which is probably Matchbox cars and cars for like four hours in a row, okay. And what my child does. So all of this is like really coming together. And I mean, there's so many different things to say about this. But what I want everyone at least listening and you, Jesse, I'm sure you've given yourself permission for this by now is like really holding separate. Like, I am a good parent who is not enjoying this. I'm a good parent who, like so many other parents, doesn't like doing things hours and hours at a time like my child does. And. And then it begs another question, which is, do I give myself permission to say to my son? Maybe not after five minutes, but definitely before I'm ready to, like, I don't know, you know, like, let out a vicious scream. Can I say after 45 minutes, hey, you know what I am? I'm car parked out. You seem not to be. Okay, you know, I am. And if you want to do something else together, here are the three things I'd be happy to do. I'm going to give you three. You pick one. And if you're really, really into parking cars, you know what? This is actually an amazing time for you to watch yourself learn how to enjoy something you're doing without me. And I'm going to, like, go to the kitchen and like, have a cup of coffee and like, write emails or whatever it is that you want to do.

I mean, that, gosh, how I wish this conversation had existed when I was sitting on the floor with those cars. Like, if you're not enjoying it, it doesn't mean you're a bad parent. I think, like, that's so magical to hear. And I. I also think, like, just what you were saying about, you know, and it goes to even maybe that younger age. Like, you know, what I was writing about too, was the idea that motherhood is like a hero's journey. And we're so used to, like, when you talk about things being demanding and high stakes, we think about the stories of, like, adventures, you know, and, like, saving Private Ryan and war stories. And, like, someone is saving lives. And the thing about being the mother of or the parent of a very small child is 24 hours a day, you have to be sort of passively saving their life.

Right?

You're like, I have to make sure 24 hours a day you don't eat a penny and choke to death on a penny. And so my vigilance is the same as if I was in a life and death situation. But none of my surroundings look like what I've been taught a life or death situation, adventure, heroic moment looks like. And at the same time, part of this does feel boring to me. But you are continuously in high adrenaline. Like, you're saying at the same time that you're bored. And that is just such a specific, I feel, like, female journey.

Yes. And. And what I thought you were going to say, which is another angle. It's like, if you think about being a parent as, like, a hero's journey. And, like, that is what we're in the business of doing as a parent. Like, I guess you could phrase it in a lot of ways. You're saving lives.

You are preserving life.

Yeah, you are preserving life. And, like, you're hopefully setting up your kid in a way that helps them, like, live their best life. And I'm not talking about best life. Like, look at me on vacation, living my best life. No, like, there doesn't have to be a boat. No, you don't know boat. Okay. Being the best version of themselves. That is a hero's journey. And again, like, nobody ever says to a soldier, like, did you love every minute? Like, did you love it?

Was it your favorite?

Nobody. What people say is like, thank you. And you are so courageous.

Thank you for your service.

You've done something really important. I'm crying again. It's the. It's. There's such a big gap between what we're sold and just what is. And that gap More than the reality is actually what spirals us.

Yes, yes. And the only way that it feels like that could ever possibly change. I mean, the way you put it just now is so perfect. It's like, what we're sold. And the reality I'm trying to think of, I mean, I guess in the moment, the other examples of that don't matter, but it is such a chasm that exists, at least in this country, society, between, again, pamper, commercial land. Just a beautiful mom staring into a beautiful baby's eyes. And everyone's smiling. No one's crying or screaming. And that's just not what it is. But I feel like the only way we can ever kind of collectively get past that is just through talking about it and telling these stories. Yes, that's. And like, women sort of saying, being able to tell the truth. And I think the fact that is still so hard for women to say this truth again, lots of women who I think just people I personally know, who I see as being so brave and outspoken and smart. Still, the shame that we carry about saying this is hard. I don't, like, feels awful.

So, Jesse, I could continue this conversation with you forever, but in the name of the stories that are being told. And I'm thinking about all the moms, all the new parents who are listening to this, who are actually right now writing their own story of new motherhood.

Yes.

Like, what are. Maybe we could go back and forth. What are a few of the things that you would like if you were sitting next to them on that couch when they wanted to go do something and couldn't because they're instead, like, feeding or they're too tired or the baby's, you know, has to go down for a nap. Well, what would you whisper in their ear?

Oh, my gosh. I mean, the first one is the one that's probably the least helpful, which is just, like, it gets better. It won't always be like this. Like, this feels like forever. I remember that feeling. I was like, this is. I'm trapped this way. This is now the forever. And it just so. The feeling is so big, it, like, shorts out any intellectual knowledge that they won't always be that way. Gosh, what else would I whisper? I'll just throw out a few. I mean, you are allowed to go on antidepressants. You should reach out to your doctor if you're feeling blue. And there are things you can take that will help you through this time. You're not a bad mom. If you want to say, like, I need to Give the baby to, you know, if you have a partner, give the baby to partner and take a walk or just take a break. I guess I would say, like, anything you can do to take care of yourself, please do it. You're not a bad mom for needing to have some kind of self preservation here.

I'm going to add on a few things too. You know, one of the things you said that I always think about the hardest thing about my early days, you just said it feels like forever. Like whatever's happening. I always said it feels like whatever I remember in that time, whatever the reality was in front of me, it felt like the truth. Like my baby's not feeding. I have a baby who. Who doesn't feed well. I have a baby who doesn't eat well. I am a mom who's not gonna figure this out. Like this moment felt like the single truth and so related to that too. If I'm sitting next to you, I'm just saying I know this feels like the truth and there will be another truth soon. Like they're equally true.

That makes me cry. Even now my son is 8. I feel like every. Every few months, there's the behavior or the thing just the same way with the baby where I'm like, oh my God, he's being so rude and now we're stuck this way. Or like, and this is forever. Is he like this, did I meet. Is this my fault? I made him this way. There was a period where he was having tics, like anxiety tics that kicked in and it was very. So upsetting. I'm like, oh my God, this is the truth. Now he's those words, like, this is we're stuck here. This is now where we are and. And always it ends with and it's my fault and we're stuck here. And it's never been true. I will say we've always moved through the hardest, scariest. Yep. Things where I thought, this is it.

That's exactly right.

Yeah.

And you know, there's also, I think at a time, if I was sitting next to a new mom, I would just probably say nothing and give a hug. I would say, whatever you're feeling. I have felt that way too. Yes. Motherhood comes with the entire range of feelings from excited to down and dark and angry and jealous and mad and all of that. And then I hope new parents are able to really start. To me, it's like a practice of saying to yourself, like, I am a good parent who. And then filling in the blank with the thing that they think threatens their good parenthood. I'm a good parent who's not enjoying this. I'm a good parent who's bored. I am a good parent who's daydreaming about all the things I used to be able to do before I had a baby. I am a good parent who's who. And it really like separates that. Like, wait. Good parenthood as an identity is separate from anyone feeling or any one moment. Right. And it's like a little verbal trick we can say to ourselves to separate that.

Yeah. Yes. That's so powerful. I mean, that's what I would say to basically all of the women who were taking the time to write to me that they felt seen by the book that they're like, there are so many women are like, I have a four year old, a two year old and a one month old and I'm sitting, I'm. I've been overwhelmed and just, I don't know what to do. And I would just always write back, you're doing a great job. You're doing a great job. And also probably the moments where you the least feel like you're doing a great job, that is actually when you are doing the greatest job because you are in the struggle, you are doing the heroic thing. Like that moment where it feels impossible and you are going to get through it. Even if it's yelling, even if it survives. It's like if everyone has survived the day, you're doing a great job. Yeah.

Yes. I love that. I love ending on that. Thank you, Jesse. Thank you for this really honest conversation. Thank you for sharing your story with so many moms and dads who need to hear it. So thank you.

Thank you so much. Dr. Becky. Thank you for all the work you do.

Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com podcast. You could also write me@podcastoodinside.com parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world and parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's totally game changing. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Natt and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico and the rest of the Gooden scene. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves. Even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside.