Pendulum Parenting

I'm Dr. Becky, and this is good inside.

If my kid is upset about something and runs up and slams the door, and my response to all of that is, ugh, I know how frustrated you are. This is so hard. This is so sad. And I'm not getting to the point where I'm like, but seriously, you can't just be running around slamming doors around here, you know, Then I'm not actually doing the other part of parenting.

So the other day, I was talking to my friend and one of the hosts of the We Can Do Hard Things podcast, Amanda Doyle, and she shared a phrase that I loved, pendulum parenting. She was telling me that she grew up in a family where she wasn't allowed to have a wide range of feelings at all. And so it was really important for her to raise kids who were allowed to have a wide range of feelings. But then she wondered, ooh, did I swing to the other end of that pendulum? Maybe I haven't differentiated with my kids between allowing all feelings but not allowing all behaviors. I know this is a conversation that's going to resonate with all of you.

We'll be right back after this.

This is my conundrum. I have many conundrums. Conundrum. They are a multitude of them. But I think my main one is I am trying to understand the difference between allowing all of the emotions and all of the feelings while not allowing all of the behaviors. Because I think that the way I grew up, I was very performative. Like, I always did the right things and acted in a highly respectful way, and wasn't always sure that all of the emotions were received with the same degree of welcomeness. And so I really wanted my kids to be able to have all of the emotions, the anger, the frustration, the resentment, all of it, like, as loudly as they wanted to and the whole spectrum of it. But I'm having a hard time figuring out where emotions translate to behaviors and how not to be teaching them that all behaviors are appropriate.

Someone recently said something similarly, like, in my house, no emotions were allowed. They were like, I don't even know if happiness was really allowed. It was just, like, kind of just flat. And she's like, I might have overcorrected. Right. And maybe that's what. That's kind of similar to what you're saying.

Yes. Glennon and I, my sister Glennon and I call it pendulum parenting. That we just, like, take wherever the pendulum was and swing it all the way over. But, like, that's not necessarily correct or not correct or incorrect, but just as helpful and safe feeling for the child to completely switch in the opposite direction. And I just want to land on a place where they can trust themselves to feel all of their emotions, express all of their emotions, but not necessarily act on the emotions to express all the behaviors that they're considering. And that's what I'm trying to figure out.

And I think it always starts with this like, really inconvenient, I guess, kind of like truth where I, I mean, I don't, I don't know if this is like science backed, but, but I do think we're just, we're born with all the feelings and with all the intensity of all the feelings. Feelings are so intense. We know that as adults and we're born with no skills for those feelings. And the nuance of having to teach skills to manage feelings while knowing for a good number of years those feelings will continue while you're learning to come out in behaviors is tricky. And most parents fall on one end of the spectrum or the other. They see the behaviors and they kind of reject the feelings underneath. And they don't differentiate or it feels really important to be like, I don't want to shut down my kids emotions. Like I, I know that felt so bad for me. I know that didn't work for me. But then also in some ways those kids aren't always learning the skills for the feelings.

Exactly, exactly. So it's like if my kid is upset about something and runs up and slams the door and, and my response to all of that is, I know how frustrated you are. This is so hard, this is so sad. And I'm not getting to the point where I'm like, but seriously, you can't just be running around slamming doors around here. You know, then I'm not actually doing the other part of parenting.

So going to the other side of the pendulum, like, did you slam doors or were you like, yeah, no, I.

Would have never slammed door. Oh my God, I would never have slammed a door.

Never. By the time slamming doors became an option, you knew by that point, that is not for me. That is not allowed here.

That would not have been among the realm of possibilities that would have gone through my mind.

So let's jump into some details and then I'm sure we'll zoom out from there and then zoom back in. But maybe it is the slamming door example or maybe it's something different like what might happen in your home that kind of brings this conundrum to light.

So I'm trying to think like an unfavored activity. It's time to do homework. It's time to turn off the computer. It's. And then. So it's always like an escalation, right? So it's time to do whatever that is. And then it's. You know, the things that I would never have done, the eye rolling, the. You know, just the things that I interpret as disrespectful because it was. That level of respect was required of me. So I interpret it as I am failing to instill a respect for me in my children. And then if it's the I'm not gonna do that, then that escalates to, you can't tell me you're not gonna do that. And then we get in this cycle where it may be that I'm over empathizing with. I understand you don't wanna do it. It's gonna be really frustrating for you. But we need to set this time and do this thing. And I just don't know that, like, is it that I have to do that crap every time? Or, like, when is the point where it's like, not to be too 1950s, but, like, when your parents are like, go do your homework, or the kid is like, all right, and they go do their homework? Like, when the hell does that start happening?

Totally.

And then I start going down the road and I'm like, okay, what happens when this child grows up and is like, I no longer really covet your approval. I have this whole world outside of you that I'm entirely more interested in pleasing than you. Like, are they gonna into understanding this, or are they gonna grow so far away from caring that I'm creating a monster at that point where I don't have really the emotional leverage that I have with them now?

So let's jump into one of these things. Is it turning off screens? Is it homework? Is it we have to go visit family? And it's like, some family that, like, they're like. Or some friends that they're like, ugh, so boring. I don't wanna go visit those people. Or I have to take an errand with you. And it's not something that's enticing to a kid. And they're a little bit kind of grumpy about it. What's most visceral.

Let'S say it's like, it's time to turn off screens or stop playing Wiffle ball outside because it's time to play violin. Like, it's time to practice your thing.

Let's take that one theoretically, in theory, right? So let's actually jump into violin a little bit. Is this something one of your kids wants to do? Is this something that they like? Is this something that, you know, a lot of parents would only be you. It's like, I want my kid to play an instrument. Like, you know, I don't know.

So what's crazy? And this is another thing. I just think this is fascinating from a parenting perspective. My 8 year old daughter wanted to do it when she was 6 and she was very into it. She was very excited about doing it. I thought she is gonna be like a virtuoso. She, she's gonna be amazing. And then I set up all the, you know, found the teacher, set up all the things. And then my son's like, what the hell, dude? Like, what about me? And I was, and I was like, you wanna do violin? I thought, no chance in hell. Because he's just, he's way more sporty, his attention to detail, his like, you know, I just didn't think that that would work for him. I'm like, of course we'll do it. Zero chance. I thought it would pan out. We're six months into violin. The violin teacher is like, I think we can retire your daughter. We don't need to do that anymore. But he's like, really good.

I am wasting your money on one of your children. Just wanting to be honest, I resigned.

From your daughter, but she's very interested in my son because he's really freaking good. And it just. That was one of my early lessons of like, oh, you don't know your kids. You think you know and you have them typecast and you have them tracking a certain way and you're probably wrong on both fronts, which I was. So. He's really good. He has a really good gift and he's. I think he gets a lot of confidence from it and he's proud and he can do something that no one else in the family can do. And that I think is a really good thing for him internally. I mean, I'm, I'm making this up. But he says when he's doing really well and he loves it, he's like proud and happy to keep going. Now when he has to practice, he's like, I hate this and I want to quit. So there's no, that's a whole nother conversation about that. But he, he doesn't like playing. He loves to be a violin player.

But he likes the lessons. Does he like the lessons part? Just the practice. The practice is.

Yeah, the practice is the kick in the shorts for him.

Yeah. And so this might be a situation where I don't know if his teacher says, like, you have to practice as many days or just as a family, you know, kind of feels like that should be on the schedule.

Yeah. Like, he practices. He's supposed to practice every day. He probably practices, like, three times a week, which is, like, totally fine. I have. I have very mediocre standards.

Totally. It's fine. Best thing for children, you know, Just average. Average. Okay, so. So the resistance comes. Is that what happens? I don't want to practice. Or, like, ugh, her like, mom, you're so annoying. Or, I'm not coming in.

It's not fair. I'm not doing that right now. It's not fair. I'm not doing it. So.

So one of the things that struck me about your daughter and your son starting violin is actually just how different their starts were relative to you, how, like, it came from. Your son had to, like, really push for this. He's like, hey, what about me? I want to do this. When for your daughter there was something a little bit more within your relationship that led to it. He, like, really pushed for it.

Well, yeah.

He saw that I was signing up my daughter because she had asked for it. And then he's like, what about me? And I was like, oh, so mine. She came to me and asked for it. I was going with her. And then he was like, I would also like to partake of that benefit you're bestowing on my daughter. On your daughter.

But when it comes to things like motivation. Right. Or pride, like, often the further away someone else is from us, the easier it is to feel. I mean, I think. Right. Like, as soon as someone comes in and kind of takes away a part of that. Or now all of a sudden, my motivation is to, like, make someone else happy or someone else wants me to do it. It almost feels like, oh, I can't. This can't be my thing anymore. He started with it as his thing.

Yes.

So as we talk about, like, feelings and this difference between expressing feelings and behaviors, which this is all related, I'm also just struck by something that shifted from something that he very much, like, came to you with to now he's resisting you. Like, at first, you're like, there was nothing to resist. You didn't even want him to do violin. And so what happens next? So he's annoyed, and then is it like, oh, mom is so annoying. Okay, okay, fine. Oh. Or is it more like, oh, you're so annoying. I'm not doing it. And then there's, you know, some type of more explosive situation.

It depends. It's just like a ritual we go through where it'll be like, the six minutes of the talking through it, and you're so frustrated and you don't want to do this, and you'd rather, you know, I'm doing the Dr. Becky things. I'm saying it back. You're so frustrated. Oh, it's so hard to stop doing something you want to do and start doing the violin. You know, I'm taking my notes from you. And then sometimes there'll just be something said or an action like a door slamming, where I just don't know. Okay. Is that a child who is comfortable in this home expressing the full range of his emotions, and he knows he is safe to be angry at me, and I want him to be able to do that and not be. Think that I'm afraid of that versus, am I raising a kid who's slamming doors around our house and also potentially taking our family emotional hostage, and do we have to go through this rigmarole every time? And how do I make him comfortable with his feelings while being like, you have to do the thing, and you have to not slam doors in our house because mom and dad don't slam doors.

Yep.

Like, we don't do that here.

And how old. How old is your son?

10.

Okay. So. So it's interesting. I feel like, to me, I'm having some different questions come up for me, not so much about feelings and behaviors, but around kind of clarity and boundaries. Right. One of the things I think about a lot with my kids, because we have some financial privilege, for sure, in my family, just meaning, like, I can sign them up for a bunch of different things. And something I think about a lot is for kids who have that financial privilege, like, they never have to learn, like, what they have to put in to continue this to happen. Like, effort. Like, I'm. Like, I feel like my kids need to pay with effort if I'm gonna pay with money and time. Right. But I've learned with my own kids that it's really important to establish that in the beginning. So. Oh, you want private lessons or you want me to drive you to baseball? Okay. Like, I just wanna be upfront with you, like, taking the time out of my schedule and paying for that. Like, those are things we can do. That's not. You don't have to feel guilty about that. And that would mean you developing a practice schedule on your own and following through. And I can Help you figure that out. But you practicing outside of those lessons is, in my mind, what you would need to do. So I feel good doing what my role is. And I feel like those things aren't, like, contracted for enough. And then inevitably, yes, this is what happens. Right. It's like we kind of pay for the thing or we drive them to the lesson, which is like, something. It's a cost.

Oh, my God.

Right. And then you end up resenting your kid. That's what happens. Like, you resent them. You're like, why aren't you practicing? Maybe it's not that we have a fantasy of him, like, being in Carnegie hall, but you're like, just, like, show some effort or do something, you know, as part of this arrangement.

Yes. Right. And if you're not gonna do anything, don't just give me, like, a whole nother job, which is trying to get you to do the thing. Yes, completely.

And I think that is powerful to say. Like, look, I wanna. And I would say this to him in a calm moment, you know? You know what? Right now, at this point in your life, it is my job to help you figure out what you love to do and to facilitate those things happening. Often there's logistics. There might be driving, there might be organization, and there might be money. Those are all facilitating those things happening. It is not a job I wanna take on to get involved in things like practicing these activities outside. And I think I've become way too involved in those moments. Because then, of course, when I get involved, if I'm not supposed to be involved, really from the first place, well, now, of course, now you're resisting me. Involved, which I actually understand, because we'd all resist someone being involved in something that they're not supposed to be involved in. It's just a recipe for disaster. And so I want us to think about a new way to look at violin. What's my job? What's your job? Now, one of the best things about being a kid in our family is I'm happy to help you do your job. A lot of kids need to figure out how. Okay. Something like practice. Well, like, do I need a visual reminder? When would I actually do that? You know? But. But I don't want to do your job for you. And I think it's gonna work out better for both of us. How might he. How would he respond to that, you think?

I think if he was involved in structuring his own day. Like, if we were, like, let's look at a week. Here's when you have basketball practice. Here's when you have baseball practice. Here's the time I know you really love to play with your friends. When on this schedule, do you want to add your three days of violin practice? I think if he named it and he wrote it, that would be very different. Cause it probably, in fairness to him, feels like a whirlwind. Like, I've just reached the thing where I'm like, God damn it.

We haven't practiced in four days.

And I come rushing in. And he's like, what in the fresh hell is happening right now? Exactly.

Exactly. I do that to my. I feel like, for me, it's with my son, my oldest, who's 11, and it's baseball.

Yes, Right.

And I'll be like, oh, like, you know, he's asking to, like, play a video game. And, like, I'm driving him. I'm gonna live in New York City. I have to get my car out of the garage and then drive. My husband comes up early from work, and we're paying this money. Godforsaken amount of money. And then. And then he's like, can I play this video game? And I'm like, oh, my goodness. But that's my trigger.

Yes.

And you're right. And. And then I think when we say, like, well, is he respecting me or not? Or this? It's like, wait, maybe I just need to ask a different question. Probably the setup here isn't working for anyone. And this is where. For your son, I even tie it back to how he started. He's like, I wanna do that. I want to do that. It's not so much we can get to the slamming doors. Cause I think there's a way to intervene there. But I'm also just thinking, it's not so much what do I do when he slams a door, but, like, how can we structure this in a way where he doesn't even really want to slam a door because he's actually motivated to do something that he wants to do. That's how this started in the first place.

And you know what's so interesting, Dr. Beckett? Because it's like, the one thing is I really. The thing I want most is my kids to be internally motivated for what they want. Because, like, I have been a dancing monkey my whole life. You know, I'm like, da, da, da, da, da. Here's my straight A's. Here's my everything. And that I have always been incredibly driven and a very high achiever. And then I've been like, wait, is that because I wanted that thing I don't even know. I don't even know because I'm. I'm reaching for the next thing always. But I. But I want my kids to be able to be like, that's a thing I want. I have the efficacy to be able to figure out how to get there. And I know it's a thing I want, and I want to get it. And I actually think that I can separate myself from what I want for my kids and get behind what they want for themselves. But what you're suggesting is that that's giving them ownership over the thing.

Yes.

I call these conversations, like, with my kids, like family meetings. And I think setting it up like, that is so respectful to a kid to say to him, hey, let's find a time. And, like, give him space. Let's find time that's good for both of us. I want to do something. And if you haven't done this before, you say, I want to do something we haven't done before. Some type of, like, meeting, you know, you could say, like, at my job, you know, when things don't go well, you get the other, like, core team members together, and everyone has good ideas, and you come together and figure it out. And I don't think you and I have done that. I don't think I've done that with you. The truth is, this whole violin practice thing, it doesn't feel good to either of us. And you know what's interesting? We haven't yet sat down and been like, hey, you have ideas, I have ideas. And I just know when we do that, like, we're gonna come up with, like, a really good solution. And then to actually have a meeting with your partner, too. Not with other kids, just them. And then it's so powerful to actually bring pen and paper to that meeting and just be like, okay, we're gonna write down ideas. Like, what are. What are some ideas around, you know, a violin practice schedule? Like, you know, what's not working now? You know, what's the worst part of it for you? What's the most annoying thing I do? And then to write, ugh, you know, mom. Mom just kind of comes at me randomly when I'm playing wiffle ball and says, it's time to practice. Like, and just, like, I'm gonna write that down. That y sound pretty annoying. Yeah, right. And then you might say, and, you know, one of the things I'm going to write down is, I want to be less involved in your practice goal. Now, listen, that doesn't mean I Think it's okay not to practice, Right. I actually think it's okay to practice, but I think you're a kid who likes violins, so I actually think we're going to figure out a way for you to want to do more of this. I also want to be less involved. So I might write down, like, okay, well, I think it's important to have some practice. And I agree it's really annoying for a mom to be dictating that. Okay, Right. And in any conflictual situation, if, like, you had a husband who was like, amanda, I want to write down everything you're saying right now. It's really important. You'd be like, it's amazing. Right? Like, oh, my God. Right?

Here's six pads of paper.

Exactly. Right. So. And. And there's something about writing when your kids are upset. It stops us from reacting, and it just, like, slows down. Cause you have to be like, wait, I want to get it all down so you can, like, slow them down if they kind of go on, like, a rant against you. And then the goal of the meeting would be to say, like, let's clarify what each of our jobs are around your playing, and let's figure out how to each do less of the thing that kind of can be annoying to the whole situation. And let's end by coming up with a totally different way to go about this. And in this way, you're really saying, like, me and you, we're on. And I would say this. I think kids need to hear this. We're on the same team. We're both on a team against the way practice has been going.

Yes.

Like, that's the problem.

We have a common enemy.

Yes. And it really works like it does. Right. Just like it would for us, especially as our kids get older. Like, they feel so respected. Probably one of the things that happens that leads to some of the slamming doors is, you know, kids, inevitably, they don't feel respected. Like, I was just doing something. Now all of a sudden, my activity has really become your activity. You're controlling in me. I want you out. And the way that that all feels and gets expressed is slamming of the doors. So let's go to slamming of the doors, though, because I agree, like, slamming of the doors is, like, it's not cool. Not cool. Right. When you were saying, I'm doing all the Dr. Becky stuff. Right. Okay, probably. So one of the things I think. No, Well, I think one of the things that's really important is I love validating emotions. I love validating emotions. And I think validating emotions has to more often go hand in hand with like, really laying down where your boundaries are. Because if, if that part doesn't come. So my visual is like, I'm just like sinking into the abyss with them. Like, I want to let them know I'm like in the hole with them, but I also want to let them know, like, I, I see out of the hole. Like, I, I see, I see where we're going. We're not disposed right. So as an, oh, this is so frustrating. I know. It's so annoying to stop one thing. You love to start something different. I love all that. And then I hear myself wanting to say, like, and listen, we just talked about in our family meeting, like, this is the time and this is where you now have like, you know, more kind of capital. Like, this is the time you carved out and you practicing when you said you were gonna practice is your end of the deal around playing violin. And so I get it's frustrating. I know you're a kid who can make a switch from a fun activity to one that's a little more, you know, challenging. And I'm just, and this is, I think, important. I'm just gonna go and get a drink of water. I just, I know we're gonna figure this out. And the reason I'm saying I'm gonna get a drink of water is like, I'm just gonna back out of the situation. Like, I'm not gonna stay in your face. I'm gonna give my kid a little space to feel the independence, especially a 10 year old would need to do to be like, okay, I guess I'm gonna do the thing my mom, you know, kind of suggested, but at least that they're not in my face. I can, like, I can save face, you know, a little bit.

That's good. Yeah.

Which feels different than. I know. It's so hard. I know, I know. You're so mad. Oh, you're so, so annoying. Like, right? Like, it's like, oh, like, how, how, how many times can we really, how many times can we really say, oh.

My God, he started saying to me, can you stop saying that?

Right? Which I agree. I might be. I'd be like, I know.

She's like, what?

She's missing the other half. Like, I know.

It's enough.

You read half the book. I know, I know.

I'm always so good at 50% of everything.

Or I say to my kids sometimes, like, look, I, I know this is hard. And, and I'm not talking about it. Anymore. I'm not talking about it more. Not because I'm trying to be mean. You're allowed to feel the way you feel. I also know that just spiraling over and over and over and over in the same feeling does nobody any good. So we're not going to talk about it anymore. You're either gonna practice or not practice. We can deal with that later, but let's shift to something else. Like the loving, empathic response. I don't think it always is just sitting and spiraling in the feeling. If the feeling almost becomes a spiral, then again, like, you lose yourself in it. What. What is. And so tell me for you, Amanda, like, what is that side of it? Like, I'm done. I know you're gonna figure this out. We need to take a break talking about this. I know you can make a good decision around this, that side, which I do think for some parents, it can feel in conflict with the, like, ugh, that. Does that feel too much like my childhood? Like, we don't do these things in our house. Does that feel shutting down to kind of a kid's emotional experience?

No, I don't think so. I think that that is. I think it feels like a boundary to me. It feels like. So I have asked you to do this thing. You're asking me to do this thing with you, which is, like, wallow for a long time and how unfair it is. And we're just gonna agree that you're a big kid and all of your emotions are safe and, like, you're gonna clearly do what you're gonna do right now, and I'm gonna go do something else. No, it feels right.

Because when you said kind of taking emotionally, you had a phrase hostage or something.

Yeah, emotional hostage. Sometimes where he runs really hot and really cold, he's very deeply feeling. And sometimes I worry about, you know, we're all riding the wave in the family. And that. That doesn't feel. I want to be very aware that my daughter feels the full. Able to express the full breadth of her everything and not like she's accommodating and acclimating to that.

Yes. And I think in a way, what you're saying, and I think you can actually say these words, but you also kind of, I think, are saying them through that added boundary, is your feelings are real and I care about them, and they do not dictate what we do in this family. And I think that's the nuance in terms of the pendulum. You can feel mad at me. Maybe it's about something Else you can feel mad at me. And slamming doors is disruptive and dangerous. And I know you're a good kid who is going to learn to feel angry at me and find a different way of expressing it. And until that moment comes, the reason I'm holding your door, the reason I'm standing between you and the door is because slamming doors is disruptive and dangerous. And you're angry and you're not allowed to slam doors. And beyond protecting the family, I always think, like, this is so protective to a kid because just as I don't know about dangerous, but just as awful as it feels to not be allowed to feel your feelings is to watch the feelings that overwhelm you then, you know, take over the entire family house. That also is like, oh, my goodness, you feel like a monster.

Yeah.

And so that. That's a conversation I imagine you could actually have with him when. When things are calm, not in the moment. In the moment, you just are like, I just gotta get, get. You know, look, and I would say this to him. I'm sure you probably already have said something like this. Like, you know, one of the things I feel best about in our family is that, you know, you can feel really mad at me. You can feel so many things. I mean, I wasn't really allowed to feel difficult feelings in my family growing up. And it's so important to me that our kids are. I'm actually really proud of us for that. I love that you can be angry at me. And there may have been times that I've confused allowing you to be mad at me with allowing certain dangerous behaviors to persist. And I'm gonna start differentiating that, and you might notice that. So I might say things like, here's one of those times you're mad. That's allowed. And I will not. I'm not gonna let you, or I know that you can say this differently. I won't let you call me stupid a million times. No, I'm not leaving you. I'm walking out of this room right now because know you can find a different way to let me know you're angry at me. That feels better to both of us. I'm gonna take some deep breaths. I love you. You're a good kid. But saying these things to me over and over is not allowed. And I know you can do it differently. Right? It's. It's really. It's really loving to say that to someone. And I think just explaining that, like, hey, this was my baseline, like you said, I might have had this pendulum Right. And here's something in the middle. And then I would say, what is If. If saying, mom, you're stupid. Right. Or if saying if slamming doors all around is. Is a 10. And I'm not going to allow a behavior that's a 10. Now, remember, anger can be a 10, but I'm not going to allow the behavior. Right. There's many ways that are true to express anger. Some are safe, and some are not safe. Let's just brainstorm now. Like, what's something that is a safer way of letting me know you're angry at me? And I'd actually brainstorm, and I'd throw him a bone. I'd be like, look, I promise I'm not gonna tell you to, like, take a deep breath. It's just, like, not cool. Right? I'm not gonna say that.

Not gonna practice our meditation right in this moment.

No. But what might he say?

Um, he might say taking a minute to myself.

Yeah. And if he said that, I'd, like. I'd be like, yeah, I feel like that would be like a. Like a two. Like, that would be like. That would be really solid, dude. If I did that when I was angry, like, go. Go ahead and do that. But let's get something a little bit more expressive.

I mean, like, he'd want to, like, maybe punch a pillow. Like, maybe scream into his pillow. Great, great.

I'm gonna punch. Punching a pillow. I'd be like, that. That's an amazing idea. That is a way we get a feeling out. We feel. Feel like we feel powerful. Because you can even ask them. I wonder if one of the things that feels good about slamming a door is feeling powerful. The truth is, when some of us want to express anger, we want to feel powerful. So there probably could be another way you feel powerful. Another good thing about slamming a door is you hear impact. It's very real. You're like, I did that. Okay. So maybe there's something about that. And then again, it's like, well, how else can you feel impact? I don't know. Maybe it's, you know, again, it's punching a pillow. It's throwing something. You know, you might even share with him. You know, you could say to me, I want to slam a door. I want to slam a door. I am that mad. I want to do it. And I promise you, I will believe that you're as mad as if you had slammed a door. I'll know you're as mad. I'll believe it. Cause as soon as you can express what you want to do. I mean, it's a very sophisticated coping skill. A lot of us are working on that.

Yeah.

Instead of doing it.

I'm so mad I could scream at you right now.

Yeah, right, right. But that's. That would be. That's a huge. That's very sophisticated.

Yes, I'm working toward that. Yeah.

And I think the message to him, which is just, I think so often the message that these kids, Some kids don't get, it's like, I'm saying all these things because I actually, number one, want you to feel this feeling. I'm also saying it because you're a good kid. Like, I. I know you're a good kid. And I know for everyone expressing feelings in a way that looks out of control, it feels out of control. That's not a good feeling for you.

Yeah, yeah. He doesn't want to have that kind of power over the family.

Yeah, yeah. The last thing I'll say is at times, with my own kids, it's actually been very valuable with certain feelings to, like, make a list to be super concrete. Let's take a feeling and let's differentiate it from a behavior. Like, even just knowing that difference, like, it's not taught to kids. It's not obvious.

Yeah, that's so true.

Right. Just like, as a list. Okay. So, you know, are you allowed to feel angry? Yes. What about hitting. Oh, no, that's a behavior that's not so safe. Right. Okay. Feeling angry, you know, saying you're stupid. Oh, yeah. Not. Not so great. Saying you're stupid isn't so great. What about feeling so angry? Right. And you want your kids to be like, yeah, that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's kind of complicated. Right. But that's true. In our family, we know you can feel. Feel so angry. We can do better over time than saying you're stupid. Yep. Okay. You know what else? And then even to say, like, what is another behavior that's not so great, and what feeling is actually an okay feeling under it? Right.

Yeah.

You know, like, kids, actually, I find, like, will engage in this. There's a little bit of, like, an intellectual exercise. They're like, oh, that's kind of like, interesting to think about. And it helps them understand them themselves.

Yes.

As well.

You're good. Dr. Becky covered a lot. You always do.

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