Reparenting With the In-Laws

What happens when you want to do things differently than how you were raised? And yet the people who raised you are intimately involved in your life and in the raising of your children.

We have done good work from the beginning setting boundaries with the grandparents, saying what's important to us, picking our battles, planting our flag where we felt we needed to, and letting other things slide when we could. But now it's much more about a narrative. It's much more ideological. It's much more about like an overall approach to how we raise kids and the stories we tell about them. And that feels a lot trickier to me to figure out how to set the boundaries or how to have those conversations.

Hi, so nice to meet you. So nice to be talking today. Why don't we begin? Just tell me a little bit about you and what's on your mind. Hi.

So thank you for doing this. I have two young kids. One is almost 4, one is 10 months. They're both girls for now, as far as we know. And the thing that is on my mind is that I am very fortunate. My partner and I are very fortunate that we have the proverbial village that everyone says they want, which is family, which is mostly my partner's family, extended family. We live in a neighborhood very close to them. And we're also really committed to this idea of reparenting. And what I'm finding, at least I won't speak for him, but what I'm finding is that if you are lucky enough to have the village and you're also committed to reparenting, inevitably some of the behaviors or patterns or ways of operating around children that you're trying to reparent from will appear in that village. And so I am wondering, how can we continue to foster these really important relationships, benefit from the support that is real and important, and also not let some behaviors that I think are harmful impact our kids. And the added dimension of this that is challenging is that of course this isn't my family of origin I'm talking about, it's his.

Yes. There's like a trifecta, the village reparenting in laws.

Yes.

The ultimate, you know, kind of adult trifecta. But really you're actually raising something that I haven't considered until you illuminated it in that way. This. We want the village. We want that mother in law or my dad involved or the great Anne. It's so amazing to have so, so many people. So you really don't feel alone. And with all those people around more often we a little bit kind of inherit how do they think about gender roles and boundaries and feelings and behavior? And if I know I want to do certain things, many things, one or two things differently, then I am then clashing with those people in my village more often than if I didn't have such ongoing support. Is that kind of where you're at?

That's exactly what it is. And I can say that this is something that we've confronted from the moment my firstborn was born. But the reason it's feeling stickier for me right now is because as my older daughter approaches four, I'm noticing that she's just absorbing messages, narratives, conversation to a degree that's new. Right. And different. And that's been the case for the past number of months. But she's just with it in a way that she wasn't before.

I'm Dr. Becky and this is good inside. We'll be back in a minute. So let's jump into a specific or two, because I find getting super specific allows us to zoom out after. Right. So let's zoom into something specific. We'll get into kind of the details and then I think that'll be a good jumping off point to understand what's going on. And I promise you by the end of this conversation to give you many concrete strategies to actually use.

Sure, yes. So I have three kind of areas that this is appearing in and I can just pick one. But you mentioned gender roles, so that's a big one. And that's the one that I notice the older daughter is starting to absorb more. So there's a lot of focus on appearance, on how pretty she is, on how pretty both our daughters are, what they're wearing. And we are very deliberate at home about not emphasizing that as much. And we'll try to say, you know, like if my father in law says, oh, like this is my most beautiful granddaughter, you know, we'll say inside and out.

Right?

Like inside and out. He'll be like, yes, yes, inside and out. But, you know, doesn't quite stick. That's one. I'll tell you the three and then you can pick which one you want to do. Two is a real discomfort with feelings. And my older daughter is a sensitive kid. She might be what you call a deeply feeling kid, I'm not sure. But she's certainly very sensitive. And we've got them to not say things like don't cry. But now they instead will just kind of do whatever she wants to get her to not cry. So the discomfort with the feeling is there. They're just doing the like hyper grandparent thing of just like, let me give you whatever you want. And then the third is just a general story they tell about being good and behaving a certain way in order to be good. And so they don't speak English, they speak a different language. So it doesn't quite translate in English. But essentially what they'll say to my daughter and to her cousin is don't do this or you have to do this because you should be good. So your idea of that we actually are good and we don't have to behave a certain way is not the story that they're telling.

So here's the best part of our conversation. I promise you. We could dive into any of them and we're going to touch on themes and strategies for all of them. So I'm not the expert of you and your family. You are. You pick one to jump into. Could be any vivid. Anyone that has kind of like a vivid moment.

Okay, let's do the last one because that one to me feels like actually the one that touches everything else.

Great. So like where are you? What exactly happens? Like walk me through that kind of moment and then we're gonna go for it together.

Okay. So I go pick up my daughter at her grandparents house. I have my baby with me and I give her a heads up. My older daughter, like, hey, we're going to get going, I'm going to help you put on your coat, it's cold outside. And she yells no. And like runs and jumps on the couch. Which like not the ideal reaction, but.

Also nothing to write home about, you know, nothing to write home about in my book. Right.

I'm like, transitions are hard when you're three years old. She needs to exert some autonomy. It's cool. Usually she does that and you know, then we can keep it moving. And when she does that, my baby, who was nine months at the time and is learning to mimic sounds also kind of gives out a shriek. So she's learning to imitate. And so I go over to my older daughter and I start talking to her really quietly and just telling her what's going to happen. And that usually works really well for her. But as I do that, my mother in law comes over, starts talking over me and saying to her, no, no, no, no, no, don't do that. We're not going to do that because you need to be good and your sister is going to learn from whatever you're doing and you're responsible for making sure she learns. So you need to be good. And she needs to be good and you need to make sure she's good. So don't do that. And kind of just like goes on and on. So it's not only about a narrative about being good. It's also a narrative about you're responsible for your sister, which is also something that I'm trying to keep separate.

Well, the responsibility. And you need to be the kind of good kid role model because then if not, you're also affecting this child. So there's a, there's a lot there.

Right.

Okay. So I have so many different ideas. I don't know if they're going to come out in the exact right order, but so be it. First of all, one of the things that strikes me in talking to you is just how intentional of a parent you are. And I feel like you're someone and you could tell me, if not, I've known you for 10 minutes, who really like notices details. Like you pick up on a lot, you notice a lot. Is that, is that true?

Yeah, that feels true. I, you know, we talk about how my daughter, the older daughter, is like my mini me in personality. And so she's a very sensitive soul. And I think I'm sensitive in some of the same ways.

Yeah. And so those are all amazing things, right? Like you're very intentional. You know, some of the things you want to do differently, you're into reparenting. So one of the things just at baseline, right. I think that's important to know about ourselves is am I kind of going to notice all of the different things that happen maybe that are different from the way I want to do them, or am I someone who's like, might not even register? Like, I can tell you me, like my in laws say something. My parents, like, my husband might be like, becky, did you hear that? And I'll be like, I don't even, I don't even hear it. And so being so intentional and cycle breaking and being so detail oriented, it's hard as an adult in a way because we feel compelled to kind of react to everything or oh, is that a big deal that they said that? So I think that's just a good baseline to appreciate about yourself. I'm very intentional and I notice a lot of these things. Like that comment from my mother in law is going to ring in my brain like for longer than maybe it would for someone else who's like, yeah, maybe she said something annoying. I don't know. I was busy like getting my kid out the door. Now the other thing I wanna Say related to that is I think sometimes when I talk to parents who are really invested in re parenting and cycle breaking, those are like my type of, you know, my type of parents is we unconsciously have this belief that when we do things differently, like the people around us also need to do things differently for our kids to benefit from our intentional, different choices. And so there's this belief like, okay, like there my mother in law goes saying all the things that maybe me or my partner inherited that we really don't want our girls to inherit. And here it is. And it feels like it's like working against like all this effort and again, an intentionality and detail we're putting into our parenting. And I guess what I wanna say, and this is not the only piece of guidance I have, there's a lot of other details is I just wanna like assure you that other people around you doing things differently than you do them. Not only what I say doesn't get in your way of cycle breaking. I actually think there's a lot of ways where it enhances the impact. Okay. And here's why. We don't notice the things, we don't register the things that happen everywhere. Which is part of when you're an adult, you're like, wait, my family did this thing? So weird. I didn't even notice until I was 30. Right? Because if everyone did it that way. So having grandparents who say things about gender, about responsibility, about feelings, I really mean this. It gives you this amazing opportunity to highlight to your child how differently you see things, how important your perspective is. Now that's not to say I'm excusing harm or something like super aggressive, but because she has grandparents who actually see things differently, I just want you to consider the perspective of. You can highlight further for your kids these values that you really, really want to impart because they're no longer so passively absorbed, they're much more actively and intentionally noticed. Does that make sense?

Yes, in theory, yes.

So then we go a step further. Cause like, okay, but like how like, obviously the things they say impact them too. So here's what I want you to consider. We're gonna take it out of your kids for a second and we're gonna, you know, bring it to you and your partner. Let's say you're at, I don't know, some cocktail party with your partner, only adults, okay. And you're kind of quiet, just like in. Is your partner a woman? Man.

He's a man.

Yeah. Okay, so you're kind of quiet and someone Comes up to your male partner, and it's like, oh, your. Your partner, your wife, whatever they assume you are, she's so subservient. Look at her. Just quietly letting you have that conversation. That's amazing. Like, and they look at you, and they're like, it's so good that you've really adopted this subservient role. Okay. Then they walk away. Okay. And then you're home that night, and your husband's thinking, like, that was, like, kind of messed up. I don't believe that. Like, first of all, maybe she's not. Second of all, like, that is definitely not the thing I'd want to reinforce in her. That seems pretty messed up. Would you rather your partner be thinking about what he can say to that fellow partygoer, or would you rather your partner be thinking about what to say to you to mark that experience and the fact that he sees it differently? Sure.

Certainly the latter.

Right? Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think I would. Right. Because we do this to bring it back. And then I want to go back to the example. We do this all the time. We hear, like, a grandparent say something like, don't have a tantrum. Like, don't be so bad. Like, you're setting a bad example. And we're like, I have to talk to that grandparent. Like, I have to explain to them, tantrums are healthy, and tantrums a sign of your mental health, and tantrums are a sign that you have a sense of your need and desire. Like, all these things that I firmly believe, too. But the truth is whether a fellow partygoer thinks that, like, a woman should be subservient, it actually doesn't matter to me that much what that person thinks. What matters to me, if I were you, is my husband saying to me after, like, wow, I don't see it that way at all. Like, that probably felt different. You know, that's not the way we think about gender in our partnership. I'm sorry that they said that that probably felt different. It is true, Becky. Some people do think that about women, and that's actually probably good for us to acknowledge and be prepared for. It's really not what we believe. And so let's bring that back to this situation of your daughter is, you know, I don't know, protesting, leaving, whatever it is. And she has a grandparent who's basically saying, be good, be good. And you're thinking, oh, my goodness, this is, like, everything. I don't want to pass on to my children this whole, like, good as really subservient, submissive, not having your own space. What might be something you say to your 4 year old in the car on the walk home, whatever it is, to kind of be an equivalent of your partner to you or my husband to me, kind of offsetting, creating dissonance with the comment that was just said.

So it would probably be like, you know, I noticed that your grandmother said this and I want you to know, like, I think you're good no matter what you're doing.

So just pause there. Okay? I really mean this. I felt that very, like deep in my body, like, because I think that that is so powerful for, for me and you right now to reflect on moments in our own childhood where probably we were like, what?

Like, I don't.

And like how powerful it would have been for an adult. I mean, definitely a mom or your dad or whoever, right? Coming to you and saying, yeah, we didn't agree with that. We do not see it that way. Right? Because you said all these things are related. So maybe being good often is more equated in this world with being female. There's more pressure to kind of be good. Meaning good is really just a euphemism for don't take up space, don't have needs, don't be, quote, inconvenient. So it kind of all comes together. You know what's interesting? Grandma kind of thinks about gender. Grandma kind of thinks about your reactions to my requests differently than I do. I don't know if you've noticed that, like when you say, no jacket, no jacket, she says, oh, come on, be good for your sister and your mom. And I see it differently. I see it as, oh, it's really hard to leave right now. You're kind of letting me know that. And then maybe we kind of find a fun game to make it easier. That's really different now for you, for everyone listening. Okay. It's easy to be like, oh, is that, like, is that something my 4 year old's going to grasp? Because my 4 year old's not going to look at me and saying, mom, thank you for this profound intergenerational moment. You just stopped a message and gave me a new pathway. Of course not. Okay, but. And your 4 year old might say to you, like, can I have my pretzels now? You know, But I really believe our kids at every age understand those communications because what you're talking about are messages that are different from the messages you believe kind of being in the ether around our kids. And you want to make sure that those Aren't the loudest ones entering her body and forming her self concept and her idea about how she needs to operate in the world. And to me, when you say to someone, I don't know about that or huh, Grandma sees it kind of differently than I do or grandpa reacts this way. And in, you know, our house, just in our immediate family, we do this instead. To me, the visual I always think is like you have the behavior and then you have the reaction. And instead of those getting paired together, you've created space. They're like two separate things. I always think like you're creating dissonance. It's enough for someone to say, huh, huh. Just this morning I was at my kid's school and my son, my youngest one, was clinging to me the whole time. And he's like my most independent child. He's all like not able to participate in the activity, cannot do recess. And there were very well meaning parents who were like, hey, go play with the kids. Your mom like is doing this activity here, go play. And all I said to him was, mom's not at school a lot. Right. Like you just want to soak up every ounce. You can play or not play, whatever you want to do. I don't really need to convince the other parents that it's okay. I don't even really need to convince my child that's okay. But I just want to put like some dissonance and like a container around those comments so they don't just kind of unconsciously, mindlessly, like pass into my kid's body.

I have a follow up question which is about like the consistency with which my kids are going to be exposed to these messages because I completely get what you're saying and it feels not different. But it's just a question I have because it's not a one off comment.

Right.

It's like maybe every week or something.

Yeah. So for sure more complicated. And look, there definitely can be a role to talking to the other adults who have influence over your children. But I think one of my main points here is that that's often the place we stress and focus. And to me that's like icing on the cake. But number one, isn't a place we really have any control or power and we often miss our ability to have real impact where we can with our kids helping to digest things. Because here's the other point and then I'll get to kind of the repetition in the grandparents. Your kids are gonna go out into the world. They already are in the world and they're gonna hear a lot of stuff like when we're cycle breaking, when I'm saying to my kids too, you know, all these messages, there's a difference between your feelings and behavior. I'm not gonna let you act this way and I love you and you're a good kid. And I kind of like sometimes that they don't just always listen to me right away because I, I can't imagine. I want them to be 20 year olds who just like listen to authority all the time. Right. And yet they receive different messages all the time. And one of the things I think about is when they're young and in my house, like, I hope, I hope they hear all of those perspectives and they go through some of those experiences early. Because if for the first time, my daughter is 22 and she's like, mom, you know what? Like some people think women like shouldn't take up space. I'm gonna be like, yeah, like I've known that for your 22 years. So like I probably could have prepared you better for that. I often think about protection versus preparation. I don't wanna protect my kids from anything. I really don't. I mean like, I wanna prepare them for things. That's not to say I don't also wanna help them become agents of changes, but I don't think any of us think that those two have to be opposed. I wanted them prepare and I think one of the ways we prepare them for the world and help them be agents of change in the world is actually when they have disparate experience helping them metabolize that and understand that. Right. So again, when I think about you being a cycle breaker like your daughter, I really do believe this, like I think will really absorb so many of the messages you have because not only you live by them, you also have repeated opportunities to say, yeah, that's not the way we did things. And if they're your in laws, maybe it's your partner who says, you know, I remember when I was your age and I used to say, I don't wanna go to bed yet. Oh, I did not have a parent come in and say, yeah, it's hard to go to bed and help me kind of make that transition. I really did hear a lot of, come on, you're not being good if that's, you know, relevant. And so you're actually like telling this cycle breaking intergenerational story which is really powerful for your kids to hear. So in terms of going back to what you said earlier, like this is not just the Grandparent visit. This is our village. Like, they are fellow caregivers, caretakers. Right. Of our children. Like, they're very, very involved.

Yeah.

So is that the thing that makes you wonder, like, is there an effective way to talk to them given they're around that often? Is that where your mind goes or you think about it? Or, like, are my attempts at kind of cycle breaking and reparenting, Are they failing given that they're so present?

Yeah, it's more like, if we're being, like you say, so intentional to do this on the home front, is it then kind of gonna be for. Not if I'm then, like, sending her over to their house and having her be exposed to those narratives or those stories, those messages.

Yeah. You know, there's so few questions that I can answer. Simply that one. I actually can definitely not. Like, I have zero percent worry. What I think is very confusing for kids is when they have different experiences. Sometimes it's with parents who don't live in the same home. They're divorced, different reasons. Sometimes it's, my grandparents are really involved. Sometimes it's. The school I go to every day is like, I hear this a lot. People are like, I don't believe in sticker charts and good kids and bad kids and people writing boards. You know, their names on the boards, but the school does that. So talk about repetition. You're like, that's every day. And, you know, certainly there are moments where we think, I want things to be in alignment. I would love if the school is aligned. But another perspective, and I really, really do believe this is assuming there's no major harm to done or worry. Those are important experiences for kids to have and actually can highlight how differently their kind of family's values are. So the school example, I think that's a school your kid is at. You're not moving for different reasons. And maybe you're like, it's not horrible. It's just very different. Like, hey, that's so different. When kids struggle in the classroom, the teacher writes their name on the board and they have to stay for 15 minutes and miss 15 minutes of recess. Right. Wow, that's. I wonder how we'd handle that in our home. And then a kid really has the opportunity to say, yeah, you know what? I feel like it would go this way instead. Like, if I'm a parent, what a better way to show. My child has internalized the way we do things because they notice how different those things are. For all I know, you work with that kid. They're a little Older. I want to go to the administration. I want to talk to them about that. I don't think shame is the best way of motivating behavior. I want to explain that to them. Talk about being like a change maker because of how solid your family home feels, how intentional your parents are, and then you are actually prepared to notice how different things are in different environments. And I really do think about that because how cool will it be when your daughter says to your mother in law, whether I put on my jacket or not, I'm the same good kid. Like, I feel like you're gonna hear that one day and be like, boom. Like, there is no article I would have sent. There is no anything I could have said to my mother in law than watching my daughter say that. And I bet that will happen. I would bet on it. Cool.

I believe you. No, I understand what you're saying. Yeah. Does make sense to me. The idea of really internalizing it.

Yeah. And your ride's home, your ride's there. Posing questions I think that our kids aren't quite ready to answer yet is one of my favorite parenting strategies. And there's a reason for it. I think we think we ask our kids questions so we find out answers. I ask my kids questions so they learn to ask themselves those same questions. What's gonna be different at grandma's house today if you say you don't like dinner? I wonder how she'll react. Huh? I wonder how we would react in our house. Oh, that's so different. Meanwhile, my kid in the backseat, my 4 year old is not like saying, oh, I'm so glad you asked me that. Here's my essay. No, but I promise you, you say things like that over time, your child's gonna be going over and one day they're gonna just hear in their own voice, I wonder how grandma's gonna react when I, you know, when I say, I really don't want to do this activity with her. Yeah, that's going to be pretty different than how my parents react. That question. The act of asking yourself a question is actually what's protective in life. Like, we know this as adults. Like, I wonder what it's going to be like when I go to this dinner where I don't know anyone who knows what it's going to be like. But I promise you, I'm going to be better at that dinner, having wondered that on the way than if I show up and I'm like, I don't know anyone. And this is horrible. Right? If I say, yeah, it Might be hard. It might be lonely. It's gonna feel really different than when I have dinner with my best friends from college. Let me just get ready for that. That's protective.

And when you are asking those questions, are you then just letting the question hang?

I do. Or I'll like, act it out myself, like. So let's get into. We'll dip into another bucket before we end. So we've kind of. We've covered. We've fixed gender. We have fixed goodness. So we fixed those. What was the third?

We fixed those feelings.

So, feelings.

Grandparents having a hard time with the crying.

Yep. Great. You know, I'm wondering what's gonna happen if you're doing a puzzle at Grandma's and you're like, this is hard. I need help. This is hard. And I wonder. I mean, love's act up. I wonder maybe, like, maybe if that was our house, I would say, yeah, it is hard. No, I'm not gonna finish it for you, sweetie, because I know you can do another piece or two if you want. And I believe in you. And this is just frustration. Everyone feels frustration. I wonder if Grandma will. Maybe Grandma will say that.

No, she won't.

Come on, Becky. Come on. No, I wonder how she'd. She might say, oh, oh, oh. No reason to cry. Here, here. That's so different. Oh, that's so different. In our house, teaching you how to manage that feeling really matters, which means not taking away from you. A grandma's. You know, she thinks about feelings differently, and it's not bad. It's not better. It's different. So she'd probably finish the puzzle for you, huh? That would be really different. Anyway, sorry. I've been talking to myself for a while. What song do you want to put on? That's how it would be.

Got it.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like the act of noticing and wondering in front of our children, it's really what helps them build their own kind of, like, mentalization capacities. The ability to, like, kind of think about your own mind state and other mind states. That's really what you want your daughter to do. You want her to be at a different house and be able to say, like, this is different from how we do things. That's really it. That's so protective. This is different. This is not really what we do in my house. And so wondering, noticing is not even judging. Cause, again, like, not the way you and I necessarily would do things. But it doesn't seem like there's any active, like, harm or aggression or meanness involved. It's different, you know, different generations thinking about things differently.

Exactly.

Because again, what's a win is one day she's gonna say, you know what we said she might say to your mother in law, but like the day she comes back to your house and says, you know, when I'm upset, Grandma like says such different things than you say. You'll be like, you're so right. You really notice that. Tell me more. Maybe she's like, no, that's it. But that will come just from really building that awareness. And that awareness to me makes us less porous to anyone else's influence. It just makes us more think, okay, someone said something that's outside me, do I want to bring that in or do I not? Because at the end of the day, that's how we really determine what influences the US.

That makes a lot of sense to me and I think speaks to the nervousness I've had, which is that like all of these messages just infiltrate her too. And then we're like doing battle inside of her somehow to like win the message. Win the message war.

Exactly. And I think that then like the main thing to kind of end with and to me is really actionable because actually it doesn't have to be so grand is just reminding yourself, like these noticing statements. Grandma says different things about feelings, right? Yeah, she does, huh? Right. Or you're reading a book and again, maybe it's about similarly a kid who is really, I don't know, their parents always want them to be happy. Oh, that's kind of like how grandma can be, right? Like that's a little different. Like we might say this instead of that. Anyway, all those little comments, I feel like each one of them, when I think about those moments, they take 18 seconds, they're not long, they add that dissonance, they add that layer of protection so it doesn't just flow in. And it has such a bigger influence than it seems. And I'm 0% concerned that your intentionality will kind of be muddied by this. I actually, I really mean this. Like, I see it being accentuated. Like I see it as an opportunity.

That's great. That's very reassuring. Thank you. And this is really what I was hoping for because, you know, we have our own relationship with them as adults. But I'm really thinking about her and it's exactly what you say, you know, with any adult other person you're trying to negotiate with. You have such little control. But that's especially true with your in laws.

So it really is. That's the ultimate truth. The ultimate truth. We'll end on that. Well, thank you. Definitely. Like, I always love to know kind of circling back, like how things go and how you feel in those situations. Because you're gonna be able to turn your focus from like, what do I have to do with my in laws? Which can be very anxiety producing because you're right. It is just kind of powerless. Like we kind of know that to, oh, wait, like I can do something small with my child. That will actually have a really, really big impact. I think that will feel really empowering.

It's true. Those, those individual moments are overwhelming and they catch me off guard. And in the moment afterwards, I'm always like, oh, I wish I had somehow said something, come up with the exact right thing to say in that moment to interrupt it. And it's just impossible. There's just the kids are always screaming.

You know, it's just not gonna happen, you know, 100%. And going back to what I said, also knowing you're so detail oriented and so intentional. Right. And probably then so focused also on the moment someone says something separate, differently than how you would want to portray to your child. It also is possible your kids aren't registering when they're screaming and running around without their jacket. It might not even be as massive to them as you hear it. So I think the combination of that knowing, yes, after a day later, you can always say that thing, hey, that was different than I would have said. That's where the impact is. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com podcast. You could also write me@podcastoodinside.com. parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world and parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's totally game changing. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsome at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julia Natt and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go, let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain Good Inside.