Revisit - Kids! Parenting When They're Not Just Like Us?

I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside.

So I am an extrovert, and, like, the most extreme extrovert that I've ever met. And my first son, he's seven now, is not. I don't think.

What do we do as parents when our kids seem to exist in the world in a very different way than we do?

He's always been a kid that's a little. Has felt different from me since the time he came out of the womb. And I think, you know, kids are here to teach us as much as we're here to teach them. And he's definitely opening me up to a whole different way of being in the world.

We'll explore this right after the break. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. I'm a clinical psychologist. I'm a mom of three, and I'm on a mission to rethink the way we raise our children.

Today I'm talking with a mom who's struggling with how best to support her.

Son while still honoring what makes him his own independent person.

Let's listen.

As a mom, there are more and more situations where I'm struggling to figure out how much to support him, let him know I see him as he is. I trust his feelings. I respect his needs. He doesn't need to change for the world.

And.

And I know from my own experience all the opportunities and advantages of being an extrovert and also the joy of it. And I don't want him to put himself in a box or limit his growth. Yeah. So it's kind of long winded.

No, I think that's really kind of direct, actually, in, you know, and I think I can relate to, you know, not the specifics, but really this theme of, like, what is it like to have a kid who's really different from you? It sounds like he's really different from you.

Yeah. And has been since the beginning.

Yeah, right. You said so. True. We have these kids who come out, and then we see them years later. You're like, wow. Like, I really can trace this from the start. Like, you see the temperament so early. So let's jump in with, like, something specific. I love to, like, kind of hear a specific situation and then use that to kind of zoom out and understand some bigger themes and come back with some kind of strategies and concrete ideas. So what comes to mind with your son? Like, what's a situation that would make you say, oh, my goodness, in this moment, like, our differences were heightened, or that difference between supporting him versus colluding? Right. Like, that's always hard to figure out. So, yeah, what comes to mind, I.

Mean, so many examples. I think one that comes up a lot is that he has one friend at school who he adores and has been his good friend since last year in kindergarten. And he is not super interested in meeting other kids in his class. And every day when he comes home from school, I'm dying to ask him, who did you play with on the playground? And when I do, he's like, you know, and says his best friend's name, and his best friend is not there. He says, I prefer, you know, sitting and watching everybody. And he'll even say, you know me, Mom. I'm content with my own company, which is great, and I don't want to push him to go make other friends. But also, he's missing out on people. And social skills are important to learn.

So right off the bat, let me say I completely resonate with this conflict.

And.

Knowing, like, what does my kid need me to respect in them and what new opportunities does my kid need me to expose them to? Yes. Is something I can tell you as a parent, I've never figured out. So, sorry, maybe I started that sentence being like, yes, yes. Like here. No, I didn't say, like, I've never figured that out as a parent. Um, I don't know if there's parents who figure that out with respect to their kids social life or sports or academics or, you know, anything we can say, what is my child? And I need to kind of respect that. And what is a way as a parent, I need to kind of move them further along. And I really do believe that just struggling with that difference is, like, the best we do as a parent. It's just asking those questions is. Is. I can tell you that's where I am. And I think just first giving ourselves permission to live between those two and ask ourselves that question without being certain that what we're doing is the right thing is a sign that we're approaching this in a really thoughtful way. So that's step one.

That's comforting.

Good. I know we can maybe let's all, like, we can, you know, take a deep breath there. So let's go into that moment. So he comes home from school, and you want to come to him saying, like, well, who did you play with today? Let's just unpack that a little bit. What do you think you're hoping for there? Or what are you hoping he's gonna say? What feels better to you? What does one answer mean versus a different Answer mean, let's unpack that.

I mean, I think my dream easy answer, which I don't anticipate will happen, is saying, oh, you know what? I played with three new people. We had a blast. We played this game, and I'm looking forward to seeing those people tomorrow. That would be what would be fun for me on the playground.

And I want to take it a step further. If he said that to you, like, what belief would come up about him? Because, like, the things we're looking to hear from our kids represent always something bigger about them. Like, it might be like, oh, he's going to be fine when he's a teenager. Let's, like, think about the leap your brain makes just so we know what's really at hand here.

I think it is that it's, he's gonna be fine. He's gonna be fine as a teenager. He's gonna be fine in the workforce. He knows how to seek other people out and open himself up to them and speak confidently and be included.

Yeah.

And I think at the base of it, maybe the big fear beyond him not being okay is even more specifically as someone who feels so much fuller when I am seen by friends and I feel connected to people, that he won't have opportunities for that. He won't know how to get that kind of satisfaction.

So here's what's coming to mind. Now for me, I'm starting with the baseline that you said. Like, we are so different. Me and my son are so different. I am the ultimate extrovert. Like, I am the extroverted extrovert. And I draw so much energy and so much joy from connecting to other people and making new relationships and getting feedback and interacting with them. That is such a big part of my life. And my son likes to have, at least at this moment, one friend. He does not seek out groups. He does not seek out new experiences. We are completely different. Okay, so what comes next for me is developing this filter. I think it's okay. Wait, am I putting my way of being in the world on him, or am I learning more about his way of being in the world that he's experiencing? So let's go through that from your perspective. The way I think we unconsciously put our own experience on our kids is we make the sleep. Oh, if you had more friends, you'd be better in the workforce. You'd be more fulfilled. Right. And being able to take a deep breath and say, whoa, whoa, that's my way of being in the world. Like, that's. That has worked Out. Well, for me, yes, that has given me joy, that's given me purpose, that's given me a sense of safety in the world. And one of the things I know for sure is my child is almost a 180° different from me. He is. And so, in a way, he's this creature on a totally different universe. And how you operate Right. On your planet, I don't know if it gives us that much information about what's going to help him operate on his planet. Tell me what you think about that.

I think that it is really helpful to think that he's 180 degrees in the opposite direction. I think that I've known that the way he is is super important in the world, is valuable. You need people who don't seek social validation and who work best alone. And yet respecting all that, I can't let go of the belief that the world, and especially this culture, is built in a lot of ways for extroverts more and more in school, group projects. And that part of my job is not to put my way of being on him. And a hard thing to remember is what gives me joy will not give him joy. He might be much happier on the playground, sitting and talking to a teacher or watching than going to find other friends if his best friend's not there. But I know I have to help him not stay limited within that. And he is a kid who knows himself so well.

Yep.

And when he learned the word introvert, he grabbed onto it. And I don't want him to be limiting himself because of what makes him feel safe, even though I know it makes him feel happy in a way it would not make me feel happy.

And I totally understand that. And I. I'm a pragmatist too. And, and I get that it's like, okay, yeah, there's many ways of being in the world, but maybe our world really does reward people who can develop many social relationships or do speak up for themselves. So here's what I'm going to say about that. That may be true. I don't know. Like, I haven't done the sociological studies. I haven't, you know, definitely haven't surveyed enough people. But let's just assume that's true because that's the fear that would make us want to shift something a little bit in our kid. Right. So that's the fear. So let's address that. Even if that's true, even if the world does reward people like that, one of the things that I think about your son is how much he's going to need support to navigate the world. Not being the type of person who fits so easily into a world that rewards socialization and being outgoing. Like, how almost even more important it is for him to have a secure base, if you will, to come back to and feel normal in that space, to feel loved, to feel accepted. Because I always think about this with regard to, like, exploration, because what you're saying is you're an explorer. Like, you like to go out, you like to go meet and like, talk to different people, right? You explore. And your son, like, has this base and he's like, I don't like to stray too far from the base. I have my base. Like, here I am like, I know there's stuff out there not for me. And the big irony I think around this is the more secure we feel in our base, the more open we are over time to exploration. Because exploring away from our base comes from the belief that I could always go back to my base and there'll be people there. And no matter what happens out there in the world, I can kind of recharge. I can, like, recharge in my home. And so if I make this more concrete, I think about the difference between saying, hey, who did you play with recess today? Which I think our kids also know. And I've said this too, to my less extroverted child. Like, my kid knows, like, my mom just wants to know if I made a new friend. Like, like, stop saying it like that. Like, I get it, okay? I know what you're really asking me. You're not so, you know, so suave there. So they know that. So instead of basically saying, so, did you make a new friend today? I wonder what would happen if you said something like, tell me about the part of school, you know, that was the most fun. What did you like most at school today? Or I wonder if you did any interesting, you know, experiments with colors today. Something totally different. And then if I think about him building safety and kind of building up his confidence, I think that comes less from moments of, hey, it might be a good idea to make some other friends. There's a lot of nice kids in your grade. We should really do that. And more from, you seem to feel really, really good with your best friend. I get that. And look, it's tricky because it's so nice to have a best friend. It can also be really nice to have other people we, over time feel comfortable with. And you know what? I guess the truth is you're the only one who's gonna really Figure out that balance. And what I can tell you is I'll be here for you in every moment that you do.

That makes me teary.

Well, I see that reaction. Tell me. Yeah, tell me what's. Tell me what's connecting about that.

I think I say a lot of those pieces all the time. And the piece that I don't say is, at the end of the day, it's you who's gonna figure it out. And I'll be here versus I've gotta figure it out for you and make sure I'm shaping you towards someone who will be okay.

And just. I wanna. I wanna, like, pause on that because I know in my own life with my kids, that has so many implications beyond extroversion or introversion.

Right.

The difference between my framework of, like, I know where my kid has to get and I want to help them, so I'm going to help them get there versus my kid's going to be the driver of their car. Right. They're going to steer their ship. Only they really know their eventual destination. I can be their guardrails. I can be a passenger. I can let them know that no matter what happens, I both believe in them and I'll be there when things are hard. Not from A, I told you so. You should have done this earlier. But from A, yeah, this is hard. And I'm right here.

Yeah. Yeah.

I think about trusting, trying to trust Ellie's kids a lot. And it's something we're not taught to do with kids. I think so much of the guidance out there is all about controlling kids. And I personally think control and trust are opposites. Right. Cause we really only control people when we don't trust them. It's unconscious. And I think when we feel controlled by someone, the reason we hate it is it feels like they're saying to us, I don't trust you. I know better than you do. And I know what I know from this even brief time talking to you is you don't wanna send your son the message that you know what's better for him than he knows what's better for him. And I think really to your credit, what you really wanna say to him is like, it's okay to be different from me, and I'll be a partner for you as you figure out who you are. And yet explicitly saying to kids words like, you're the only one who can figure this out. You're the only one who can know what feels good on a playground. You're the only one who knows how many Close friends feels good to you. You're the only one who knows what it's like to make new friends and how big of a barrier that feels. We're actually building up a kid's both sense of confidence internally and their security with us at the base. And that's the big paradox, is it doesn't mean you say that. And after a week it's like, becky, that was crazy. My kid made a new friend on the playground. Like, it's not that linear. But if reaching out to new people is something that really would be good for him, these are the ingredients that's gonna allow him to do that. Because he both feels confident in himself and he feels confident in his relationship with you.

Hmm. That's really valuable. I think what I you said, it doesn't mean it's gonna happen in a week. I think my fear is if I say, you're the only one who knows I and I'm here as you figure it out, that he'll say, okay, I don't ever need to talk to anybody again. And that's not him. I mean, he also does have lots of other friends. I just want to say, to his credit, but they're all people who he's met in one on one situations and he feels very safe with. And so this paradox that you outline, that actually the more trust I give him Even at age 7, the less I try to control. And I think that I, in my brain replace control with teach. And this idea that we have to teach help form our children, which is true, but the line between that and control can get a little murky. That maybe stepping away from the teach control and towards the trust will actually, maybe more slowly, but will actually let him open into the confidence that he will need to find his way in the world socially.

I really feel like that because I think we do this thing where when we see our kid today, we put the exact situation kind of a couple years from now. So, for example, my seven year old has one friend, my seven year old has one friend, and oh my goodness, when my kid is now 18, I don't want them to have one friend. So one friend as a 7 year old means one friend as an 18 year old. But hear me out. Here's the way I think we need to fast forward instead of with the concrete detail. Right now, my 7 year old has figured out the type and number of friendships that feel right to him. Like, God, I hope when my kid is 18, they still know the type and number of friendships that feels good to them. Who knows what that number will be? But that's the process I'm building. I think we get really lost in the manifestation in the number one. Or we think my kid is the only kid who doesn't join the birthday party versus my kid doesn't join something until they feel safe. My kid waits until they feel comfortable before jumping in. You know, I know a lot of people who have teenagers in college and what they would give for their teenagers to be able to say, you know, I'm gonna wait till I'm comfortable, I'm not ready yet. They would give a lot. That's what we want for our kids. And so I think in these moments of anxiety when we see our kids in this way and then, yeah, we predict kind of awfulness if we take a deep breath and say, what's a more generous interpret of this, a more generous interpretation of my kid only has one friend is my kid actually. And your kid seems amazingly confident this way. He's like, this is how I like to be right now. If Your kid at 18 knows how he likes to be and has a social world that reflects how he feels most comfortable, I promise you this is a kid who's going to be more satisfied with his life than most 18 year olds. We don't know what it will look like. And that's the thing, I think we need to trust. I don't know what that's gonna look like at 18, but what I wanna build is that self trust and trust, that process.

Yeah. That also takes the stakes down for everyone in the moment.

Right. I know, and I know this comes from the best place because you're such an involved parent. You're like, I don't want to have an 18 year old and look back and be like, oh, I could have, I should have, it's my fault, right?

Yes, exactly.

And I think, you know, again, what can really help that anxiety we have is to say, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Nothing about my kid at 18 is probably gonna look exactly like it does at 7. They're not on the playground, it's not about recess. So everything on the surface is gonna change. And what really helps 18 year old, what really helps 30 year olds? If I have one wish for my kids, really, it's that when they're older they have the self belief that says, I'm the only one in my body. I'm the only one who knows what I like and what I want and I can form a life that, you know, kind of mirrors that. As long as it's you Know, safe for everyone else. Right. But that's what I want for them, that type of real self confidence. And that's something I try to come back to when I'm not triggered, which, of course, I have those moments, too, but is. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Let me take the surface details away. Like, how can I show my kid I trust them? I think what you can continue to do is expose, is say, hey, today we are going to, you know, we are going to a family event, and there's gonna be four other families there, and there's gonna be all kids who kind of know each other, and I know they all do soccer, and I. And I know that's not really your thing right now. Right. There's a little, like, kind of movement language. It's not your thing right now. I know it's probably not gonna be your favorite afternoon. I also know you're a kid who figures things out and can get through it. And if any part's hard, you can come talk to me when you. We are gonna go. We are gonna go because all of us do things that aren't our favorites and kind of expose us to different situations. I'm exposing my child while not adding kind of any type of pressure or value judgment.

Mm. I love the language of at this time, the little sneaky things. Cause I. As I said, he knows himself so well, and I want to support it and trust it and not limit him to something that he has prescribed as his identity at seven.

And I love that. Exactly. So when he does do something limiting, you know, mom, I'm an introvert. You know, you're an extrovert. It's interesting to me. Oh, really? You know, a part of me is definitely extroverted, and it's probably a pretty big part. I also have an introverted part. I wonder if my extroverted part in my body is as big as your introverted part in your body. And it's almost like my introverted part and your extroverted part are like, hey, I'm here too. That's interesting to think about. Right? What do you want for a snack? Then I'm just planting the idea and, like, moving on. Or like, introvert. That's an interesting word. So hard to call someone one thing, you know, like, what do you do, your job?

I'm a composer. I write musical theater.

I love that. So that's a great example. That could be a powerful thing to say to him. You know what's funny? The other day, someone introduced me as a composer. You know what inside Honey, I was like, wait, I'm also someone who loves to run. And I'm also a mom. And I also am starting to knit. I'm making this up. And. But what you could end up with is, you know, I'm so many things. Sometimes people only see us as one thing, right? And then it's almost like, oh, I have to be that one thing. But good thing in this family, we know that we can be so many different things. Right? That's like a sneaky. It's like a sneaky, powerful message. And then just let that sit. And I think you get that, right? We don't have to then say, remember you have a part of you who could make friends, too. I always think when we do that, it's like, I just ruined that whole intervention. Just ruined it. Sure, right. And I feel really hopeful, really, for you and your son. And I also have to say, I think it would be probably the most powerful intervention of all if you share with him, like, your exploration of the parts that are less explored in you. Like, maybe you're not only the most extroverted, extrovert, maybe there is a part of you that cancels plans one night and you tell yourself, you know, I just needed a bath. It was like too many people. You know, it's so unlike me. I'm not used to that happening. And I just kind of listened to it and it was. It was important. Right? So there's. There's so many of these little things that are less forceful, that are less concrete. But I can see as we talk, like, you know, they matter because they hit us, they hit our bodies. Like, wow, that would be powerful to hear from someone. And I think he'll just absorb all of these kind of sneaky, powerful messages from you.

Yeah. I love this. This is. I feel like I've thought about this so much that I even wondered if there was another way to think about it. But I think there are a lot of things that came out of this. The sneaky opening language, talking about the other sides of me, which is so true. And I would benefit from getting in touch with a little bit more of my slow paced, introverted self and that it's okay to just trust rather than teach right now, and that I can take the stakes down by not projecting forward the worst case scenario.

I just, you know, usually at the end of a conversation, I like to recap it for people. But you did such a better job than I would do, so thank you for that and something you just said that I just want to highlight. I've never thought about the beauty of this line. Like I can trust instead of teach. Like maybe I lean into trusting and I really mean this. I can't wait to hear kind of what comes from that. I feel like it'll be some really good and important things.

Yeah, me too.

Well, thank you for like sharing so much and being here.

Of course. And thank him for letting me tell his story.

Yes, yes.

Today's episode is in partnership with Airbnb and Mommy's Bliss. Thank you for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com or you could write me@podcastoodinside.com Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world and you deserve resources and support so you feel empowered and confident for this very important job you hold. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership. It's the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's game changing and built for a busy parent who wants to make the most out of the few minutes they have. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhee, Julia Knapp and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, Brooke Zant and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go. Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain Good Inside.

Sam.