The Power of Letting Kids Struggle

I'm Dr. Becky, and this is good inside. Reese Witherspoon is someone who doesn't exactly need an introduction. But what you might not know about Reese is she's written her second children's book, Busy Betty and the Circus Surprise, that is out today. And she's also one of my favorite people to talk about parenting with.

I see this a lot with parents. I don't know when we stopped letting our kids fail. Like, I learned so much from the paper I didn't turn in or the demerits I got. So I got detention. I was suspended from school when I was in fifth grade for talking in class and being disruptive. And my parents didn't say she didn't deserve that and take me out of school. They actually let me sit in it and feel uncomfortable. So I think learning from failure is actually a valuable tool that you can't take away from kids. Right? You rob them if you don't let them sit in the discomfort of the experience.

In her book, she brings to life so many of the themes that we hold really dear here at Good Inside. Letting kids struggle instead of taking them out. A struggle. Resilience, creativity, holding onto big ideas, and the true definition of confidence. I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. We'll be back right after this. Hi, Reese.

Hi, Becky. Or do I call you Dr. Becky?

You know, either one is fine. I feel like we get each other.

I'm comfortable you went to that school for that long. I'm gonna call you Dr. Becky.

Okay, I will. I will embrace the doctor. Call me Dr. Becky. That's what it is. So good to have you here.

So nice to be here.

I want to hear all about this amazing book you wrote. So, so Busy Betty is like a whole series, right?

Well, this is book number two.

So there's two.

Is that a series? That's a series.

I think it's a series. It's a character that's now, you know, being developed. I feel like you're someone just like Betty who dreams of big things. So I don't know. I just don't anticipate it ending at 2. So maybe I'm just looking to the future, but who knows? I don't know anything. No one knows. Maybe Busy Betty and the circus. Surprise. So can you just. Like, I like to always understand first to me, like, I like to understand the backstory. Like, what's underneath this? Like, what was underneath this for you? What's under Betty? Who is she? What does she mean to you? And how did that even lead to the second book in the Betty series.

Well, when I was during the pandemic, I went through all childhood photos. That was my project. I kind of finally went through the boxes and sorted things and scanned a lot of stuff so that I would have archives and things. And I found all these really interesting pictures of me creating little businesses in the backyard when I was a little girl. And I thought, oh my gosh, I forgot. My brother and I would build these businesses together. We had a barrette business where he would go to the mall, buy the barrettes, four for a dollar. I would write people's names on them and personalize them and then we'd upcharge it to A$50. So we were making a profit. And he told me about profit margins in the third grade. But we also just had fun. And so that's what sort of started this idea. I was also talking to my kindergarten teacher because my son goes to the school that I went to. Uh huh.

And there's the same teacher, is there?

Patti Wright? No, Patti Wright, who, who knew me when I was 5 years old skipping around the blacktop and the playground pretending to be Dolly Parton because I was obsessed with Dolly Parton. And I'd say, Ms. Wright, I'm going to be famous one day. And she said, what are you going to do? And I said, I'm going to be a singer like Dolly Parton. And she said, okay, Recy, I believe you. I'll go see your concert. Okay, but you have to go play with the other children. And so I, I sat down with her and I started talking to her. I said, you know, talk to me about the different kids that you teach and what do you do with kids who have a lot of energy and creativity. And she was like, you were just high spirited. I always had to direct your play and your creativity. And you just didn't want to play with other kids. You were so imaginative, you wanted to play alone. So I'd have to tell you, how can you think of a game that would get the other kids to play make believe with you? And she changed my socialization and she helped me make friends. I didn't have friends for the first three years of elementary school. I just was very much like in my own head and doing my own thing and, and I had a brother. So I was just hanging out with my brother all the time.

Yeah. So, but I want to jump in on that. Yeah. Just to make sure it sounds like during those years you weren't lonely, you didn't have Friends and you weren't lonely. Both. Both are true. Because, you know, one what strikes me is actually, it's. It's crazy timing is this conversation I was recently having with a parent a little different. But her daughter really likes to read at recess. She loves reading. She's, like, 7. And the mom is extremely social, like, social butterfly. And she's kind of entering, like, what's wrong with my daughter? And she's never gonna have any friends. And. And one of the things that was really helpful to explore, Lore, was kind of the difference between the parents fear and almost her putting herself in her daughter's shoes. Like, I wouldn't have wanted to read versus her daughter, who I know actually seems like, like, at this stage in her life, she. She's happy to be doing that. And so your story, I feel like, is such a poignant one. Like, people. People hear your name, I think everyone's like, yeah, like, Reese Witherspoon's figured some things out. Like, she seems to have, like, adapted. Okay. You know, like, you're right. And so. But to hear, like, oh, like, there's a way when kids are young and they're figuring out who they are and what matters to them, that their version of satisfaction, you know, could actually look very different from another kid's.

Yeah. And I think that we. It's our job as parents and caregivers to understand. Just know your players. Right. Each one of your kids is going to be totally different. Teachers know this. Right. But as parents, it's our job not to make them to conform to who we want them to be. It's our. It's our job to figure out who they are and help them play to their strengths.

We both have three kids, and, yeah, my three kids, like, completely different from each other. I keep wondering, like, if I had four or five or six, would they all be equally as different from each other? My guess is there are, like, innumerable permutations. And so I'm curious with you. You have three, too. Is it hardest for you, in some ways, to parent the kid who's most like you and you see stuff in them and you're like, oh, my goodness. Or to parent the kid who's in some ways, least like you?

Hmm. That's a really good question. I think probably both is also a lot. I mean, all three of my kids are so different. I have one very introverted kid, very quiet. I have a very social kid, and I have a kid who's very talkative and very inquisitive and, like, almost Endlessly curious. There's so many questions. I don't know how to answer all the questions. You know what's kind of fun is I got to combine all of them into Busy Betty. So a little bit of a little Busy Betty is who I was as a little girl. High spirited, lots of different ideas. Learning from Failure, which is a big piece of the book. And then a lot of it is literally things that have happened to my children or questions they've asked me.

Speak to the learning from failure part, like, give people a preview of that. And I think you're naming it because it's so important, you know, for kids development. Right.

Yeah. I just. I see this a lot with parents. I don't know when we stopped letting our kids fail. Like, I learned so much from the paper I didn't turn in or the demerits I got. So I got detention. I was suspended from school when I was in fifth grade for talking in class and being disruptive and writing creative notes and passing them to my friends. And my parents didn't say she didn't deserve that and take me out of school. They actually let me sit in it and feel uncomfortable. So I think learning from failure is actually a valuable tool that you can't take away from kids. Right. You rob them if you don't let them sit in the discomfort of the experience. I'm going to. I will tell a story about my daughter and I hope it's okay if I tell this. She was in third grade and she was. She wanted to be on the basketball team because all of her friends were on the basketball team. And she went to the practices all the time. It was really hard for her. She couldn't do the layup. She couldn't. She just couldn't get the coordination with the dribbling. And she just wasn't. She didn't like it. And so she went. And then she had her last game of the season and she went home and laid down on the bed and started to cry. And she was like, I didn't score anything. I didn't score one goal. And. And everybody scored goals this entire season. I didn't score any goals. And I was like, yeah, I know. I said, I know that that probably feels really bad. She's like, yeah, it feels terrible. And I said, you know what? Also, maybe you're not good at basketball. She was like, what? What? Can you tell me I'm not good at something? I was like, it's actually really important to learn what you're not good at. Yes, yes, I had a very similar experience with the volleyball team. I did not make the volleyball team in sixth grade, and I cried so, so much. And. But I learned I wasn't good at volleyball.

And, you know, this is music to my ears. This is like such core of the philosophy I talk about. And I actually think it's the essence of what we get wrong about confidence. Confidence isn't feeling like you're the best at something. Confidence is feeling like it's okay to be you when you're not the best at something. And that is the biggest gift of all. Right. And yes, you reflected that back to your daughter. It sounds very similar to the way we generally talk about, you know, things with our kids too, where to me, the biggest gift. And I really do. I get this, like, excitement, like, And I know that sounds awful, like when my kids are a little upset where I'm like, wait a second, if I can tolerate their distress, they're going to think it's possible for them to tolerate their distress. And then it could be small. It's like my son's struggling to do a puzzle, right? And instead of being like, here's how to do it, you know, kind of quote, keep him happy, you know, I'm like, oh, puzzles are so hard, right? Or, oh, I forgot to bring my computer to school. This happened to my sixth grader. Right. And I did know. I could have told him, here it is. But when he came home upset, I was like, you only learn from feelings. If I am robbing you of disappointment, you're not gonna use the feeling to become more responsible. And I know I don't want to remind you about your computer for, for the rest of your life. Like, I want to work myself out of that job, and I won't do that if I don't let you experience the reality.

You're so right. You're so right. And also, I think the hard part too, as a parent is age appropriate failure.

Yes.

So we are supposed to intervene when they, their, their, you know, their little hands can't cut correctly. We're supposed to help them with motor skills. Right. So intervening with certain things at young age is different than what once you're. So what do you think? I actually want to ask you developmentally, when is the good time to start saying, I see you failed? Yeah, it's hard.

Well, I guess I'm thinking about something like, in between even that. Like, let's say it's your, I don't know, it's your 14 month old, and they can't. You know, I don't know, get the food they want on their fork and they're trying to use it.

Right.

Of course, like, we want to help. I'm not going to be like, well, I'm not going to let you eat food until you can do this by yourself. Like, that's definitely not my parenting approach. But to me, there's a big difference for what our kid learns from. Okay, here it is. Okay, stop crying. Versus if I can calm my own body first and just say, Becky. And this is. I really do need to say this to myself. I'm safe. This is not an emergency. This is not an emergency. Like, I need to remind my body that. And then I might say something different to my 14 month old, which is, ah, so tricky. Or, oh, you're working so hard. And even if that only lasts 5 seconds, 10 seconds before I do say, I'm gonna help you with that fork. I've literally increased my child's frustration tolerance for 10 seconds. That's actually how they learn to be successful. Kids learn to be successful by lengthening the amount of time they tolerate struggling. The success finds itself. And when we beeline a kid from struggle to success, they grow up thinking that's entitlement. They grow up thinking they shouldn't have to struggle. Like, kind of, where is the easy win here? Where is the person rescuing me? Right. Because actually their bodies are like, I've never really had to tolerate struggling before, so I'm scared. I'm actually scared of this feeling.

Yeah. And we all know that feeling, even as adults. Yes. You have it over and over and over again. And I do think that's so well said. It's like your tolerance for the struggle of literally everything in life.

Yeah. I really, like, I've said that about my kids. Like, I hope they're good at struggling. I think that's like one of the best predictors of success. The longer you can. I mean, not to the point that it's like, you know, really working against you or, you know, something like that. But, like, this is hard. Okay, what do I do next? And in that way, working on a puzzle a little longer when you're three is really no different than, than like writing the script you want to write. Because even then you're going to have a moment of saying, I can't do this.

It's too hard.

And if you can draw on. Wait, let me take a deep breath. I, you know, I'm going to figure this out. We all know what happens next.

Yeah.

So let's bring this Back to Betty, because she is. She's industrious. She's industrious. She's. She's full of big ideas. And she believes, I think, in her ability to bring those ideas to life even when there's obstacles in her way. Right?

Yes. She has incredible optimism and creativity. And I think a big piece of her, too, big piece of writing the books that was fun for me was the teamwork aspect too, because that's a big part of my life and my creative work. I have a big creative brain, but I can come up with a million ideas. Only really two of them are able to be executed with the right team around me. So I'm always deeply appreciative of my team. There are different perspectives. I always like that Betty has a friend who comes in and sees the mess and goes, that's not a mess. This could work. We just need to adjust one thing so they're adaptable. There are kids who are figuring it out on their own. This is actually one of my favorite things to do with kids, too. I've been a parent since 1999, so I do little things that are fun social experiments with them, too. Like, I'll give them, well, look, I mean, we did so many lemonade stands, right? So I would start to say, hmm, how can we make it different because there's so many lemonade stands. What do we add to the lemonade that's going to make it special, that people really think it's something creative and interesting? What, what, what else can we add with the lemonade for a lesson amount of money that might make it more appealing? And so I get them thinking about it, and then I make them actually do it. We had a snow cone stand. Snow cone stands are a big popular one in our family in the summer. And we kind of model the whole business, like, what is the startup cost and how are we going to market it and who's going to actually make the product and who's going to sell the people and who runs the cash register? And it's fun to watch their brains work.

Oh, my goodness. I mean, you're. You're speaking my language here because I. I think so much about the power of questions to our kids, right? And the difference between teaching our kids what to think versus teaching them how to think. I mean, I could cry at that difference. And teaching someone what to think is telling them things right? Where you could say, hey, you should really add cookies to the lemonade stand. Right? But we all remember when I was teenage, we were teenagers. Someone can Tell you what to think. It's probably not going to work, right? But when you pose questions to your kid and I, I always think the power of doing this is starting before they can answer questions. Because like when you say to maybe your 4 year old doing a lemonade stand, I wonder what else you could sell? Like, people are like, you think my 4 year old's gonna have an answer? The power of the moment happen. They might. But even if they don't, the moments already happen. Because now the next time they do something, they're gonna say to themselves, I wonder what else I could add. And that's like, that's everything. Because you. And I was thinking about what you're saying. I'm like that too. I'm such an idea generator. And I need someone to be like, gas, gas, gas to your. I mean, sorry, break, break, break to your gas. Like, nope, you know, but. And then we finally get somewhere. But I think I asked myself a lot of questions and I think I asked my kids a lot of questions. And it sounds like you do that too, which is what allows kids to become creative.

Also, I learned so much. I did a reading of Busy Betty last year and I sat in an audience and at the very end, I asked them, has anybody ever run a business? And they're all like, I said, have you ever had a lemonade stand? Oh, yeah, yeah, we've all had a lemonade. I said, you've run a business. And then we, I said, what is another business that you could sell with the same table? You could sell something different or special. One girl, I mean, said the most amazing thing when I said, what could you add onto the lemonade that would make it really special? She goes, bubbles, come on, I already want to go to that lemonade stand. I learned you learn some bubbles make everything better 100%.

They really do.

And children's imagination is so free and it's so amazing if you just listen to them and let them learn and let them surprise you and then also let them try some bad ideas. So the snow cone idea is actually good because I got this kind of inexpensive machine and we had to figure out how to get the ice to the machine on the street. The way their brains were trying to figure out how to get the ice. First they started with a cup. Uh oh, they only had one cup. Then they started with a bowl. Uh oh, the bowl melted in the sun. Then they were like, we need a cooler, we need a cooler. It was just amazing. It was so fun.

Well, because it seems like you're able to really witness the way their work and experimentation and failures led to this aha moment. Like witnessing your kid have an aha moment versus kind of like giving them your aha moment. Like, you could have said, hey, guys, like, a cooler could probably be better than a cop. You know, it's so easy as an adult to say that, but watching a kid experience the sense that they came up with an idea that clicked after their experience mounted and like, kind of just. Just watching that, it's. It's magic as a parent, right?

It is. It's so amazing and fun just to see. And sometimes they have great ideas, and then sometimes you have to just hold their hand through the failure. Or you go, okay, that ice clogged the machine. I'm gonna help unclog the machine. But I feel like those days go by so quickly too. I know, because you're so working on a. On a collective idea and a project. Also to learn about teamwork too, because you literally can't do anything like that by yourself. Yeah.

Was any of that hard for you? Like, I know I'm thinking about parents who. They know about themselves. They're like, I'm kind of high on control. I'm kind of perfectionistic myself. So watching my kid come up with ideas that are, quote, wrong or right, like they're. They're aware. They're like, it's. That's like so hard for me.

See, that's not hard for me in a creative space. You know what it was really hard for me as a parent was watching my kids go into a place like this. Sounds so odd, but I'm sure you've heard this before. Not controlling how they look and what they wear. Because I wanted to do that so badly. I was just like, no, no, no. If you just wear this outfit, it's cute. And if you. And then no one will judge you and you'll just fit in. But it's actually. I actually thought I am robbing them of learning those lessons. First of all, self expression, creativity, and you know who you are in the world in a group, how do you assimilate? How do you stand out? Which one are you? If I dressed you and told you how to be, like, literally, sometimes just telling kids what to wear can cripple them later in life because that's. Your self identity is designed around things that you succeed at. And Am I making any sense? Do you know what I'm saying? Oh, my goodness.

You're making so much sense. And I feel like for so long, I felt like I'm good in that way. And then I heard myself with my daughter. She's at the age now where a lot of the girls and they go to birthday parties. They're, they're, they're like, quote, like looking cute. Like they kind of make themselves up differently. And my daughter just wants to wear her brother's sports shirts and sports shirt, you know. And I remember saying in a way that I thought like, I just want to let you know the girls at this party are going to be wearing this.

So.

And I kind of pulled out this dress and she's literally just, just because other people are wearing dresses, why would that make me want to wear a dress? And I was like, boom, oh, oh, okay. You know, and it was, I was actually after I was like, oh my goodness, isn't that like the self esteem I'm working to gain? And I think again, it comes from this good place, like you want to all of this. We think we're protecting our kids in those moments by taking them out of failure by telling them you should wear this, by saying, hey, you really gotta, you know, remember your computer for school. But when we're protecting them from a bad outcome, potentially we're often not preparing them for life where they're inevitably going to have to deal with bad outcomes. Right. So yeah.

And I also think that we're focusing on protecting them from a bad outcome and also we're not letting them learn to self regulate.

Yes, yes.

You know, or adapt or move.

Yes.

Right. So I watched all my kids, their sense of style or what they thought was cool or evolve, you know, and also it should be age appropriate too. There's a time where they become more self conscious and puberty and you know, and learning like when to step in and be helpful and when to shut up. It's so hard. It's so hard.

What you just said about that evolution is, you know, when your kid's in a stage like they want to wear something that you're like, oh my goodness. Or I don't know, they're in some type of stage. I feel like one of the hardest part of parenting is like my kid can be in a stage that's hard for me and it just feels like it's going to be the truth forever about them versus what you're saying is like they're going to pass into some other stage. It might be harder for me, it could be easier for me. And sometimes what I have found is the more I try to control something in my kid in their stage that's hard for me the longer they actually stay in it. Because now it's a way to like, define themselves as separate from me. Right. And now we're in, like a power struggle. Right. So can you speak to that like you. It's amazing. You have kids at different life stages. Has that been helpful in parenting your third? Like, do you feel like you have a little more of a zoom out of. Like these things are a stage. It's going to evolve. Yeah.

Yeah. I think anybody who has older kids and then their third one or forth coming up, I think sometimes around food too Food, it gets to be very controlling. So I've had one kid's a great eater. One's.

Yeah.

Okay, fine. One has a very rigid idea of what is good and not good. And so adapting around food concerns. I will say. My mom was a pediatric nurse, so I got the benefit. She actually taught pediatric nursing. So she would bring me in as an example to her classes sometimes and tell stories when she came home about. I was trying to show people that about nutrition and that there's time. There's periods of stages of children's development where they don't eat very much. And we all get really worried, oh, my God, they're not eating. They're not eating perfectly. And then it's like you can hold on so tight that you're actually causing more damage. Sometimes ignoring the food controlling behavior dissipates it a little bit.

Yes.

You know when you're watching too much and you're talking about it too much, it becomes this center focus around family meals.

Yes.

So I would love to hear your thoughts on that, because I'm just observationally, that's an issue a lot of people deal with.

Yes. I mean, I think when it's similar, we're talking about appearance and clothes and food. Right. I find it helpful to think about control and trust as binaries, as opposites. And so the more we exert control, the more often without intending to, we're kind of saying to someone, I don't trust you. Right. Which is why if, like, your boss is standing over you being like, write this thing now, you're like, it feels like they don't trust you. Like, it feels so bad where if they're like, hey, this thing has to be redone. I'm going to go to my office. Let me know. I have faith in you. You, you. You feel the trust because there's like an absence of control. And. And for kids, what they eat, like, what literally goes into their body and what they swallow and that's one of the only things they have, like, full control over really is, like, it's often honestly what they eat and when they pee and poop, which are also two areas when kids are young that can make parents very anxious because they're the two areas they don't have control over.

That's right.

And yes, the irony is the thing that really helps kids in the potty process, or actually on their own schedule exploring a wide range of foods, is actually feeling like they trust their bodies to, like, figure out, in some ways, this, like, very natural developmental thing, like, okay, I have to eat. And the thing that really gets in their way is when our anxiety is apparent. You know, a lot of us, when we're anxious, we double down on control. It ends. We think it's going to help our anxiety. It actually always makes it worse, but we think we lead with it. And then, yes, kids will say, like, I'm not eating anything, or I'm, like, they're, you know, I'm not go. I'm. I'm not potty trained anymore, whatever it is. Because in a way, what they're saying is, like, this is the only thing in my life that I think I can really control. But I'm getting the message that, like, you don't trust my body. And so that really gets in a kid's way of those really important processes. And I hear myself talking, and I hear the voice of people listening, like, oh, I messed up my kids forever. Oh, my goodness. No. Nope. No one messed up their kids forever, right? No, not a thing. So I just know it's so. It's so easy to hear ideas about our kids and go into, like. It's just because we care so much. So it's so easy to go into shame mode.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Well, also, I think I really like what you talk about when you talk about repair, because nothing is an absolute. It's not over. It's not done. You always have a chance to go, you know what? And I do this a lot as a parent. I was thinking about that conversation we had two nights ago, and I want to go back. I don't think I said the right thing. And, you know, I'm just a human, too. And I think sometimes I think I'm saying the right thing. But I think what I want to be clear about is I'm not upset at you. I was trying to get to the heart of this problem between us. But tell me, you know, have you had any more thoughts about it?

I mean, it's like everything to me is repair. Because to me it's these moments. I yelled at my kid, I said something I didn't want to say, and then those moments can feel like our worst parenting moments. Like, like we'll think about them for weeks and then we tell ourselves these stories. I'm a monster. I've messed up my kid forever. If anybody ever knew the type of parent I would, they would, you know, whatever. All this judgment, like, and what I really like to share with parents, and it's not bullshit, it's completely true, is the moments after you mess up, which is human. Reese has done it, I've done it, we all do it. Those are actually the moments you can like, shine the most. That is like you're like on stage. Because there is nothing that is as positively impactful in any relationship as going back to a moment that felt bad and layering on connection and understanding. And because kids, when things feel bad and they're confused by them, no one explains them, they tend to blame themselves for them just because it's like the only thing they can do to try to like, have some understanding. When you go back to repair, I always like, picture like you literally, like you remove, you like snatch it out of their body. Like you snatch out the story that they're at fault, that they make bad things happen, that they're too much. A lot of the stories we've told ourselves, you know, for a while as adults and like I, I really, I feel like a magician when I do it with my kids. Like, it's so powerful. And you can't repair if you don't rupture. Like, you can't get good at repair if you don't mess up. So when you mess up, it's just like you're already completing step one in a very important two step process. And so yes, like, repair is, is everything. Everything. Did, did you, did your parents repair with you? Like, did you have that modeled for you?

Um, I've had it modeled with my mother at this age. It's actually really healing too because as you get older and you start to go, well, there's these parenting dynamics that didn't work in my childhood and I'm going to bring them up with my parents. To have a parent, my mother saying, you know what? I don't, I don't know if I handled that right. I'm sorry, I did the best I could. Wow, that is enormously healing. My mother said that to me. Yeah, yeah. And, and, and it's, I have such compassion for people Who. There's, you know, the accountability.

Yes.

Right. And I've had. I've said it to my own kids. I know I've messed up. And I want you to know I don't expect you to think I'm a perfect parent. You're allowed to tell me what did or didn't work for you. In retrospect, I am so here and available to hear that, like, you don't have to protect me from your thoughts or feelings about my parenting. Just.

You don't have to protect me from your thoughts and feelings about my parenting. That is, I. That is. I just want to. Really, really profound. And I think that is such a gift to kids at any age, because in a way, when they do share with you, hey, like, you know, when you were so hard on me, on this, it felt bad. Or when you used to leave me alone in your. My room instead of come. In a way, I like my image of it because at first it stings because it feels like they're saying, like, you're a bad parent. They're not saying that, but it can feel like that. But my image of it, Rhys, is like, my kid is, like, opening up a new hook in them. Like, they're letting me get to know an experience they had or a part of them that I didn't know before. They're actually, like. It's like a bid for connection. They're letting me. Because I'm sure when you were able to share things with your parent and your mom hooked onto it, like, she listened. You can feel closer to someone after that, right?

Yeah, for sure. Because also, there's a validation piece.

Yes, right. You're like, I wasn't making that up. Exactly. It's. That was, you know, And I don't anymore, but in my private practice, I, you know, worked with so many adults, and as they reflected on parts of their childhood, I mean, this, not one of them ever wished that their parents were perfect, that their parents didn't make mistakes. A hundred percent of them yearned for repair. Right? Like, that's what was. That's what they felt was missing. They're like, yeah, like, we kind of know as you get older, my parents are human. Right. But no one needs those moments not to have happened. You just need, like you said, right, that validation, that connection. Just someone to listen, not listen to try to prove you wrong. That's not listening, but, like, actually just listen to. Understand. So, yes, repair is everything.

I think a lot, too, about being vulnerable with your kids, not having to be perfect. And I Think that's probably changed for me. I think when my first kid I had, everything had to be perfect and the outfit had to be perfect, and the first day of school had to look cute and. And now I think I let go a lot of that. That need for perfection, I think. And also the idea that I'm always doing everything right or the other thing, I think moms get stuck in sometimes that maybe I'm generalizing, but I hope maybe this resonates that we're the only one that knows the right thing to do for the kid. It gets a little. I had to learn to let go because I'm a working mom and I had to learn that. I had to reframe my thinking. Like, oh, no, they're not gonna be okay. Cause I'm not there. I'm not the one putting on the soccer cleats and I'm not the one putting the bow in the hair and I'm not the doing the video camera. And I had to learn and kind of reframe it. That. No. Oh, my kids are learning to be adaptable to other parenting styles and other people who have authority, who are older or younger or grew up in a different culture, or they're actually learning to be a person who gets their needs met with different people and they're a person to learns to speak up and self advocate and that moms who think I'm the only one who can do everything, it's actually, it can be. And I'm guilty of it too. It can be harmful for kids.

I. I was just talking about this exact thing with one of my friends because I work a lot more than I used to, so my kids were not always used to me working, you know, full time. And I have been for the last couple years. And it's necessitated moments like you're saying of like, I'm not at, you know, whatever. The thing is, I didn't get to the basketball practice, the basketball game that time, or I didn't go to the orthodontist appointment. Right. And recently I had a really powerful experience with my oldest, who, you know, I kind of checked in with him. He just started middle school. And I said, like, have you any. Have you had any tests?

You know, like, I don't know.

My friends were talking about, they're like, you know, and he was like, yeah.

I've had like three tests.

I was like, oh. And then he shared with me, you know, and how he had studied and done all these things. And I reflected and I actually shared this with my mom. Recently, my mom was like always there and like that sounds amazing, but there was a little bit of what you're saying. Like I didn't realize till later that it took me a little longer to find my own capability because I actually think we find capability when we like have a secure base, but we're actually in some moments of distance and you're like, oh, look at me, like, I figured this thing out, you know, like, yeah, here I am.

And I was like, I learned how to hustle, literally.

Right. And. And I said to my mom with love, and she's so non defensive. I was, I don't know if I ever took a test in my life that you didn't know about that. Like, you know, like she was so always there and I was always sharing, you know, and, and I felt actually, I felt proud of myself. I was like that. Like my son, and now he's older, like he figured out how to like study and, and do all those things in that distance. Right. And it was just, it was such like a cycle breaking difference, you know?

Yeah.

For me.

Yeah. I can't imagine if somebody like knew every test I took.

Right.

Be great. And also a lot.

Yeah.

To manage, like it's having like a full time manager standing over your shoulder all the time going, did you do the work? Did you do the work? Did you do the work? It's like, okay, I have to trust that they're learning study habits and good skills.

Yeah. That trust again. Right. And I think we give our kids so much. And again, this is so full circle. When we trust that they can cope with hard things, when we trust that they can bounce back from a hard moment that will be there for them, to help them through that hard moment. But we don't just have to take away the hard moment proactively. Our kids benefit. They actually build their self esteem by watching themselves kind of like go through that moment. Like we were saying, like, oh, look at me, I got through that. Right. Like they have to have that experience to have that self belief.

Yeah. And skill stacking going. Oh, no, I'm actually good at that.

Yeah.

I remember having to be advocating for myself in school and I think it's why I have great relationships with teachers. I learned that I had to learn how to talk to the teachers and have conversations with them. And then I got more engaged in talking to them and. And because of, you know, the fact that my parents didn't intervene.

Yeah. Yeah. You were just there and like you had built up enough capability and confidence to trust Yourself. It wasn't controlled for you. Right there again, is it to trust that you could figure it out and then you did.

Right. Yeah. And know that I wanted to get the most out of my education for myself.

Yeah.

Not to please them. Yes.

Yes.

Literally, what was I interested in? Yes.

So what do you, what do you hope with. With Betty? Like what do you hope kids get from her or what moments happen between parents and kids? I always think about that. There's all these amazing moments that happen between parents and kids because of an amazing children's book.

I think a lot about people who have kids, caregivers who have kids that are very high spirited and high energy and ask a million questions and go, go, go, go, go, go, go. First of all, it's for care, but how to direct play. Like don't do the play, but like set up the play. Today we're going to play store, tomorrow we're going to play circus. That kind of thing I think is really helpful. And also letting kids fail, letting your big, high spirited kids fall on the floor. And it was really important to me that Betty had a tantrum. Big expressions of emotion and that she's allowed to have those big meltdowns. You just let her cry. Cry until you can't cry anymore. Let all the tears out.

Yes.

And then you pick yourself up and then you figure out what you're gonna do. I love that. But there's a lot about resilience and finding the message in the failure.

Yes. And as an extra tip for everyone listening who's going to be reading this book to their kids? There's nothing my kids love more than when I start the sentence, did I ever tell you about the time? And then I share something that was really hard for me or where I failed? And I feel like this book, like I can. Did I ever tell you about the time? And then I could see being like, I was working on this project and then this happened and this happened. They think it's going to be amazing. And then my whole block tower fell down before anyone even saw it. And because I think, like our kids see us as so together, as so having figured it out. It's one of the reasons their hard moments and failures are actually so hard for them. Because in the context of their family, it's almost like I'm the only one who struggles to put on my T shirt the right way or tie my shoes. I always think my parents are like this, this flood of capability. And so it's so interesting whenever my kids, there was this period where after I started doing this, something hard would happen. And, like, for example, I remember my daughter saying, when you were six, did you ever skin your knee falling off your scooter while riding down Broadway? Like, that's what just happened.

Just, like, it's so specific.

Yes. Because she had literally been like, you know, and I think she was just saying, like, tell me I'm not, like, what we're all saying. Tell me I'm not alone. Tell me you've been here too.

Right.

And so I think your book also, like, really allows for this nice moment after of, like, sharing vulnerably yourself. Like, I've. I've been there too.

Yeah. I love sharing my big failures with my kids. They think it's hysterical. Yeah. You know, it's interesting because, like, to my kids, I'm just this mom. Right. I'm just this mom. And they every once in a while, the outside world pops up and I just remember my kid the other day saying, wait, people think you're funny.

Why?

I was like, it's actually my job. It's like, what I'm paid to do. He's like, you get paid to be funny? Are you kidding me? I'm so much funnier than you.

Do they know you? Do they know the real you? You're not that funny.

They clearly haven't met you.

I know, I know.

But I just. I wanted to tell you, I just. I really value what you're putting into the world because I watch you on Instagram and I think it's. There's so many people don't have time to read a book. I know it. You know it. But giving people the words and modeling for them how to talk to their kids in a patient and loving way is such a gift to the world. So thank you for doing everything you do and your amazing team, because I know you have an amazing team. There's no way you can do something at this level and not have the greatest team. So.

The greatest team, 100%. Well, thank you and can't wait to talk again.

Okay, I'll see you soon.

Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com podcast. You could also write me@podcastoodinside.com parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world, and parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of, like, valued parents. It's totally game changing good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsem at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhee, Julia Natt and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go, let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside. It.