The Sandwich Generation is Feeling the Squeeze

You. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is good inside.

I thought now that my girls are in school full days now, it was kind of going to be my time to go back to school to pursue some of my dreams, kind of head in those directions for a while. And it's very hard to prioritize my own personal goals when I have all of these competing, I guess, priorities, seemingly more important priorities that are calling for my attention.

Advocating for yourself, for your own wants and needs is hard. And we all know it's especially hard when you're also a caregiver to children. Well, it's doubly hard if you also take on caregiving duties for your parents. This week, I'm talking to a mom of two girls about how to put herself back into the equation while not losing the essence of what makes her a great caregiver to everyone around her. So let's just kind of jump in. Tell me a little bit about you and what's on your mind.

Okay. So I recently moved from Canada to the U.S. to be closer to my parents. And they're in their 70s, and so I knew, you know, they're aging. We've never lived near them. And so kind of my husband and I felt that urgency of the time is now to try it before the girls are in middle school, high school. You know, they're kind of at a better age right now. So we had a lot of motivations for the move, but definitely being closer to grandparents was part of it. We came in August, and I have been caught off guard by how much my parents have aged in the last few years and how much, I guess, helping care they require from me already. And while I knew it was coming and I felt prepared for the idea of parents aging, I had never thought of helping my aging parents at the same time as having preteens and teenagers. The two had never merged in my brain. I just saw them as two separate things. And now I find it's starting and I'm not prepared for it. And I haven't been able to come across a lot of resources that speak to it. But I also know I started having children in my 30s, which nowadays is pretty common. I think it used to maybe be earlier in life. So that just leads me to believe I'm not the only one in this situation right now.

I would say two things are true. You are not the only one. And even if you are the only one, it would still be important to understand. And it sounds like you're like the ultimate caretaker. You're swiveling both sides, noticing people in need.

It's very hard to prioritize my own personal goals when I have all of these competing, seemingly more important priorities that are calling for my attention.

We'll be right back. I'm going to double click on that. I thought I was going to go in a different direction, but you said something I want to pause on. Seemingly more important priorities. I'm curious. So you're saying I thought this was going to be the time to prioritize. Like me, like, I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to do my thing. I'm going to feel fulfilled in this new way.

Right.

And do this learning. I'm going to feel lit up inside by those things that I love. And I'm just thinking about that. Compared with that phrase you use, seemingly more important priorities, I'm not making a judgment about which is more important. Arguably, I don't even know if we need to choose, but I heard you say that. So what falls into that bucket?

Well, I do feel like the care of the people that I love. Specifically in this situation, family on both sides is my priority, and I'm not resentful about it. I'm grateful for the opportunity to be there. It's part of why we moved. But also it comes at a cost. And so I guess that's nothing new. It's not a revolutionary idea. But when you're struck with it all over again, when you're hitting a new phase of life that you thought was going to be one thing, it is a grieving process.

For me, I think about this sometimes when we're going through something really emotional and those emotions can be hard for us. It can be easy to almost externalize it, like when you're going through, when you're in a new stage. But for you, you're saying I, I is this right? If I'm speaking for you, you're saying I'm in a new stage. I expected to be spending my time differently. I was really hoping, you know, to go back to school. I was hoping to kind of reclaim more hours in the day for my own pursuits. And here I am now kind of back into caretaking. Not of my kids, who maybe those hours are in school, but now of my parents. On some level, we move back to be near grandparents. But I didn' say I moved back to take care of my parents.

True. Yeah, I moved back. We moved back. It was both my husband and I to give our children that opportunity of having their grandparents built into them. We've Always lived away from family. We wanted our kids to have the opportunity of having grandparents built into them, which is happening not in the way I thought and not in the same way I saw them do with my older nieces and nephews, if that makes sense.

That makes a lot of sense. And I think that's important to separate. I think there's a lot of us who feel like, yeah, I want my parents, my kids, grandparents to be involved. I want them to be in my kid's life. So we imagine like, grandma picks my kid up at soccer, grandma's able to do this carpool, Grandma comes over for dinner, or grandpa and one of my kids does this activity. In a way, what we're imagining is our parents, like, helping us, like, helping our kids, lightening our lope, like they're lightning the lope. Right. I don't know anyone who's like, I can't wait to have grandparents involved so I can take care of people on both sides of my age. That's not usually a fantasy we have. You know, we see I'm gonna be able to go to class, maybe feel less guilty, not have to rush out, talk to the professor after because my parent is home with my child and that's covered. But you're saying not only is that not what's happening, it's more extreme than that. Right. It's an added responsibility, an added call on your time, on your energy. Is that right?

It is. And in things that I hadn't fathomed and I'm not equipped to handle. One example that I like to use is I have two girls, and I spend a lot of time preparing myself for how to handle the Internet and social media. But guess what I also have. I have aging parents who need to be protected from the Internet, too. I don't know how to do that. I'm not equipped. It's in a very different way than what my children need, but it is equally important. Yeah. And I need some help, I guess. And I just. I think other people probably have those questions too.

So. Question for you that keeps kind of coming up for me in a loud way. It seems like you're this very involved, thoughtful, deliberate caregiver of your kids. You feel called to be a thoughtful, deliberate caregiver of your parents. Where in the equation? How do you think about being a thoughtful, deliberate caregiver to yourself?

Yeah, that's a tough one for me. That is a skill I'm trying to develop through a lot of my own counseling that I'm trying to build into. I Was the youngest of three kids by quite a bit in a family of entrepreneurs. I've always been a helper and I recognize now in my 40s that that's where I got a lot of my positive affirmation was in that supportive role. Everything went well. Everybody was happy when Renee was self sufficient. And I'm wrestling with that now and trying to figure out how to prioritize when at the end of the day, for me to pursue some of my goals, it is a little selfish. I mean, that's how it feels to me. But it requires me to prioritize myself over other people, which is so hard for me.

Tell me about that word and what it means to you or what it feels like selfish. Like prioritizing myself connects, right. To feel selfish. Like a little selfish.

Yeah. I don't know how to expand it beyond that. It, it's, it is definitely an internal struggle. It's like I know that it's good for me to have goals, it's good for me to pursue them. I understand that in my doing that there's life that I get inside that serves everybody, but it comes at a cost to the people and it limits their ability, say for my kids to be involved in other things for time with me. And I think that's such an important role. I take it very seriously. My husband's incredibly supportive of me pursuing all of those things. He's phenomenal. I understand my parents aren't asking for these things of me in their words, but in the way that they're relating to me now that I live nearby, they are asking me. And you just fall right back into those childhood patterns, don't you? Even when you're consciously aware.

So let's play that out. Let's play that out. Let's say I'm going to make this up, but like, you know, next Wednesday there's this one day class seminar. What would be the topic? You fill in that blank for me. What would be the topic? They'd be like, oh, I like really want to learn about that.

I would be drawn to going to. Yeah, anything. I, I have developed quite a interest in psychology. I'm taking business classes. I'm pursuing. That's always been my bent. But now I'm developing a passion for specifically grief counseling. That is really interesting to me. So anything along those lines is something I would be so fascinated to be a part of.

Great. So, you know, your dreams come true. There's like, you know, the most respected grief counselor, someone who's a super compelling speaker all the good things is this one day, you know, seminar. It's on, you know, coming up, and you're like, oh, I really want to sign. Sign up for that. And you're about to. And then you get a call, I don't know what it is, from one of your parents with a request. What might be a request that happens in reality. Or maybe it's not a direct request, but it's something that's like, dropping the seed that makes think, oh, that's going to conflict with that class. Like, what. What would that be?

Yeah, it would probably be just my. If my parents are planning something entertaining. So entertaining is life giving to them. So if they had planned a party at their house here or something like that, and are asking for my help to support them so that they can pull it off because they don't have the same energy or abilities that they used to have.

Great. Oh, Renee, this is great. You're free on Wednesday, right? Like, you're free. Like, we're gonna have this party. It's gonna be great. Can you. Do, you know, X, Y, or Z? So just. We're just gonna pause. We're pausing. And just. If you kind of literally do gaze in what's going on for you right now as you're, like, wrestling with that moment.

Yeah, that would be so hard. And I would. I would absolutely cancel my plans to enable them.

Oh, you already. We paused. You can't cancel anything. Remember? We paused your life. So can't make decisions in a pause. So you get a redo. So we're going back to this pause, and I just want to hear. Let's do this. We're going to isolate first the part of you that really wants to go to this class first. That doesn't mean there's not also a part of you that's screaming like, you can't do it. Like, you have to help your parents. What's wrong with you? That part's just, like, in the waiting room for now. Okay, she's there. She's in the waiting room. Okay. So we're going to. You matter. We're going to hear from you, too. You're going to get your time. Don't worry. You're in the waiting room. Give you our full attention in a moment. But right now, the only part of you that's gonna speak to me is the part that, like, really wants to go to this seminar.

I cannot explain to you how hard this is for me. I don't know how to tap into that person that.

That's already really Important data. And I'd give yourself credit for that.

Okay.

I don't know if that part has words. And in a way, if you think about our own development, if. And I was like, hey, tell me about the part of you that really wants to, like, I don't know, you know, jump up and down on the couch. Like, I don't think I'd expect the one year old to be able to, like, say much to me.

Right.

That would be like a hard question. And there are ways in which parts of us may have learned that their expression was like, so kind of dangerous to the family system that they stop themselves from, like, developing the words kind of. The words aren't even loud enough inside us to be expressed outside of us. Does it kind of feel like that?

That is accurate. And I've been starting to see that in myself the last few years. And now, of course, it's just front and center. I don't know how to access that part.

So what I imagine is. And there's like, I think the visual of this layer is even powerful. Wanting things for ourselves is like the most basic human experience. Like, we know this. Going back to babies, like, I'm guessing when you were one day old, you know, I can't imagine you're lying in the crib being like, you know, it's 3:00am, my mom's gonna be tired, my dad's gonna be tired. If I scream. So I'm just. I can wait to eat until 9am I'm gonna let them sleep in. Like, do you think you did that?

No.

In the first go? No, definitely not. What did you do?

I absolutely cried until I got there. Right? Yeah.

So what I always think about is we are born, like, feeling very free to express the wants and needs we have, no matter how much they inconvenience others. And they really inconvenience others. Right. Like, we remember those days, me and you. Like, it was annoying to get up, like the entire night. No one liked that. But still, our babies did their thing. It's kind of like they're a ball of desire. And now here we are in our 40s, right? Being like, oh, what do I want?

What do I want?

And then often it's like, why am I having a panic attack? Why am I having a panic attack? Stop asking me that question. Ask me any question but that question. Yeah, right?

Yeah.

And I just want right now to honor that there is a part of you that knows what you want. There's a part of you that knows why you want to go to this class, because that's the same part of you that knows what they want in general. Like, that's the same part of you that knew you were hungry at 3 in the morning. And it must have been adaptive. And you're so reflective. You're aware of this to kind of develop another part, like, put a layer on top, probably speaking to that part often, like, sh. Stop it. You know, be quiet. You're gonna ruin everything. This is not the way we do things here. And so if you think about those two layers, there's almost two parts. There's the what do I want? And then there's something I developed to protect me from that wanting part. Speaking up, that protector part. Renee, I don't know, how much practice do you think she's had?

Oh, she's had a lot of practice.

Yeah, she's good. Like, she's probably really good at her job. Right.

So I can't fit that skill.

Right? Exactly. She's really good. And that part, where I think it's really important, really started from a place of adaptation. It must have been adaptive. And you reflected on this to be so helping, so externally oriented. So who can I take care of? Who can I kind of make their life easier for? What can I do for others? I always think you probably had a lot of experience gazing out at other people's wants, you know, everything people want. It's amazing. I bet your parents could drop a random sentence and you'd be like, they want me to go to the store and get them these paper towels for their party. And like, maybe someone else is like, they didn't say that. And you're like, no, they do. Like, I trust me. Like, I can, like, decode it. Right?

Yeah.

And yet when it's like, why do you want to do something that gazing in, it's like that protector part swoops over. Don't ask. Don't ask such daring, selfish questions. And I just wanted to say one thing about the word selfish self. Selfish is a word our protector part uses. It's not a word we would ever use originally to describe our wants and needs. And so just what I want to do right now as a little exercise is I just want you to really kind of connect to your body in whatever way you do. And if you're like, I don't have a way to connect to my body, that's fine too.

Okay.

And really just send, like, appreciation to that protector part. Because we often get mad at it when we want to change. Like, come on. Like, why can't I just know what I need. I'm 40 something years old. Like, I should be able. And then, like, it just adds so much shame and blame and it layers on, you know, and makes everything harder versus what I think is much more true, which is on some level, Renee, like, saying to that part of you, like, thank you. Like, I know right now I'm trying to figure out a little bit more of my wants and needs, so you're definitely getting in the way of that. But you think you're helping me. And honestly, probably for at least 18, maybe 20, maybe more years, you did help me.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

And so something I always say to that part of me is, I really do. I say, like, thank you for your years of service. Thank you for your years of service. And over time, I'm going to show you it's 2023, not 1993.

Right.

And yet I expect you to protest. I expect you to use the word selfish.

Selfish.

Selfish. And now that I know what comes from you, I might just hear it in a different way. I might even laugh, like, oh, there she goes again. Like, she doesn't have that many sophisticated strategies, just always using that word selfish, you know? But, you know. Okay, you know, I hear you. But what's adaptive to me now isn't exactly the same as what was adaptive for me for so many years. And so we'll figure this out, right? Tell me how that lands.

Yeah, it's good. It's good. And I can definitely see how that would be so helpful when you have those initial reactionary. Oh, I need to drop this to go do this. Whether it's for the kids or my parents or whatever.

Can we give that part a name? Oh, it's so selfish. Oh, I have to drop it. The one who's always, in some ways, pushing a part of you who might want something for yourself down, but probably she's like the ultimate caregiver. I mean, this Renee of everyone but you. Right?

Yeah.

Can we call her something? There's something fun to, like naming parts of us. It also reminds us it's not all of us by, like, almost giving. What would her name be?

Yeah, I don't know. Something. I feel like it's. It should include something that includes the word should because it seems like anytime you say, well, I should do that, great is usually an indication that you're. That I am pushing down my own thing.

Great. Could be.

Should girl.

Something like that. I have to be honest. Like, I give, like, that part of me. Like, I'll, you know, when I want to talk to something and let it know it's a part of me and not all of me. I'll give it, like, real people name. I'll be like, sharon. Sharon.

Okay.

I like that you're always predicting the worst thing is going to happen. Like, you always do that, Sharon. You know, like. And it always does just make me laugh, which always changes the situation because it. If I don't do that, that voice seems so true. Like, oh, this awful thing's gonna happen and my life's gonna be horrible, and this is gonna happen to my kids. And if I'm like, wait, Becky. Becky, that's Sharon. Hi. You know, so we could call it anything. But there is something to naming something as a part of us that reminds you, Renee. This is a part of me telling me it's selfish. It's not all of me. This is a part of me saying I have to always take care of everyone else, even at the detriment to myself. That's a part of me. And a visual I often think about is I'm like the driver of a car. And it's like, in the backseat. And the only reason it becomes problematic. And your should girl has done this for a while. It only becomes problematic when it jumps into the driver's seat.

Right.

So what you are about to do right after the pause and you watch how quickly certain parts of us jump into the driver's seat, you're like, I'm canceling the class. I was like, whoa, Remember? I was like, let's rewind. Like, no one's canceling anything yet. But it's like that part of you is so accustomed to taking over.

Yeah.

And driving.

Yeah.

So let's actually play around that. If that part of you that should girl did take over, what would you do for the. For the seminar? What would you. What?

What would she do if I let her take over?

Yeah.

Yeah. We would just cancel it. And we would do the thing, and we would just choose to be fine. Yeah.

Choose to be fine. I'm gonna do a whole other thing with you on that. Choose to be fine. I have a feeling there's a lot of people listening who are nodding like, wow, that's interesting. That's probably what I do. I choose to be fine. It's very powerful language. I mean, that really strikes me. We're not saying we are fine. We're not saying we are content. We're not saying we're living in line with our values, but the part of us that presses down what we want for Ourself, probably one of the ways that she does that for us. And she also says, I'm going to just choose to be fine.

Yeah. I'm pretty big on authenticity. And so when I say the words I choose to be fine, I really convince myself that I'm okay with it. And in a lot of ways, it is. But I am becoming aware that way deep down inside, there's a piece that isn't okay. And yet I'm okay, if that makes sense, because I've learned to be okay.

Well, when you say you're okay and I'm gonna push you on this, I'm gonna say something. It might be more intense than I mean it. So maybe I'm saying it just to be provocative, but there's a part of it. I mean, it doesn't feel very authentic at all, what you're saying.

I know.

I like to be authentic. I live with authenticity. I wonder if, like, that's not really at all what you're describing. I know, right?

Yeah. And I do value it. It is my number one thing. And so I'm starting to wonder when I say something like, I choose to be fine because authenticity is so huge for me. But it's really. I'm starting to see. I really lie to myself and.

And to others.

Yeah. Because I'm prioritizing that. So I choose to be fine. And I muster it all up, and I. And I am until I'm not. And I'm starting to see every now and then, it's like the parts that I'm pushing down pile up, and they come out in kind of a gross way until that's all aired out, and then I go back and I want to break that. I don't. I don't want that.

How do they come out? How does it come out after being pressured and pushed down?

Yeah. Lately it's been coming out in just kind of out of the blue, really dark times. Like, I almost like a situational depression kind of thing, where all of a sudden, out of nowhere, I'm done and I'm too low to crawl back out. And it's just a dark season for a few weeks. The last time it happened, it was a month and a lot of counseling before I kind of broke out of it, and then I was back to myself. But I think there's a link there. Part of it, yeah.

And what about rage? Yelling, screaming, rageful moments. Does it come out in that way?

For me, it doesn't. I'm not that type of person. For me, it's More just probably, I would say dark anxiety spirals in my brain, you know, that sort of thing. Instead of.

Yeah, yeah. So I want to go back to this car image with you. I want to imagine your parents have this party, you have this seminar. And I want to make clear, first of all, in life, like, I'm not a proponent ever of any one way of doing things. Like, you know, I'm not saying every time you want to do something for yourself and people would like you to help them, it's always right to say no to them and yes to yourself. Like, that's definitely not some general rule. But most of us fall on one end of the spectrum. We gaze in for what we need for ourself, really to the detriment of our relationships. Or we really gaze out at what people in relationships with us need at the detriment of ourself.

Right.

And so the reason I wanna play around with you prioritizing yourself is simply because you're saying that that end of the spectrum is really hard for me. So let's say you are in the car, you're in the driver's seat, and your should girl, or, you know, your Sharon, whatever we're calling her, is in the backseat. Okay? She has not. We know if she takes over the driver's seat, she's like, oh, I'm actually just gonna get out of that class and I'm gonna make sure to get those paper towels for my parents and help them with the party. They really wanna have the party, and I'm gonna help them make it a great party. Okay? We know that's her decision, but if it's you in the driver's seat, okay, and you're allowing your desire, your want for yourself to inform your decision. Let's play that out a little bit because I wanna make it. I want to make it really clear for everyone that when we start to change patterns, and for a lot of people, and yes, a lot of women and a lot of moms, when you start to say, even just here and there, I'm going to prioritize something I want for myself, it is not rainbows and unicorns. Like, I wish it was. I was like, everyone's going to love it and it's going to feel amazing. No, it's actually going to feel awful. Like you actually might have something almost resembling a panic attack because your body inside is going through essentially. What is this? I'm not used to doing this. Go back to what's always been safe. Go back to prioritizing everyone else I can be fine. I can choose to be fine. Why did I choose to be in this class? I'm not even enjoying it. I should have helped my parents. They don't have any paper towels. Like, your entire experience in the seminar is literally going to be that or at least 80%, which is easy to say, well, I'm paying to do a seminar and do that. Like, I'm not even going to remember what that person said because I am literally experiencing something so uncomfortable. And I, I would say to someone, yes, that's exactly how the first time will feel. The second time will feel similar to that, maybe a tiny bit better. Maybe the third, fourth, fifth time, it'll be slightly more enjoyable. But this is the pathway to being able to prioritize yourself and balance yourself with others in a more comfortable, easier way. You don't get there until you go through here. Does that make sense?

Yeah. I'm so glad you said that because that has been my experience. As I've tried to play around with this, as I've been becoming aware, prioritizing some of my schooling has meant saying no to my parents and my children. And it was exactly what you just described. It felt terrible. It didn't feel good. It didn't feel life giving. It was very hard.

That's right. And it is very hard. Right. It's very hard to create a new pattern when the pattern feels horrible. But then what we do is say, oh, see, it wasn't worth it. It wasn't worth it. Right. But that's, I mean, this, that is not the lesson. So I want to go over a couple things. So in this exercise, you are now in the driver's seat. You are. Right. You are driving to the class. What is the part of you in the backseat that should. Girl, what's she saying to you, Renee, when you're going to the class?

She gets quieter for me. But, you know, it's the little guilt, the little guilt and shame messages that she just kind of like, maybe she's throwing pebbles at me and there's just like little, little like shame kind of, kind of things in my direction, like.

This is wrong, like, this is so selfish or this isn't worth it.

Yeah. I think for me specifically, because I have chosen to be at home with my girls for these years, the stuff that I'm pursuing in terms of classes and a seminar or something like that isn't directly related to my career or making an income at this point in time. So those pebbles are pretty hard hitting because it's not that at this point in time, yet it's doing anything to better the family in terms of providing for them.

So I want you to. I'm going to say something, and you don't have to believe it, but I just want you to say it as an experiment to see what happens in your body as a result of saying it. I'm allowed to want things for myself.

Yeah. I am allowed to want things for myself.

Try it one more time. It's just an experiment. It could be, you know, just say it one more time.

I am allowed to want things for myself. That's something I've been actually doing. I've been saying that to myself. And it. Like you described the first time of going to a seminar. It feels hard. The first time of saying that to yourself. Yeah. And it has slowly. It's an emotional experience for me, to be honest. Yeah.

And I want to model this kind of almost conversation that I think would happen inside yourself. Right. That part of you in the backseat is going to say, so selfish. Like, what is this worth? And Renee, I mean, this you're going to say back to her. I knew you'd say that.

Right?

Yeah, I knew you'd say that.

That's.

That's typical.

Yeah.

Right.

Or absolutely.

Going back to that message of appreciation for so long. That message was really helpful to me. Thank you. You still think I'm 16. You know, Dick Schwartz has this great idea with internal family systems that I think so beautiful. The visual that the parts of us that are our protector, parts like that, that one, they're so busy protecting us that they're always gazing out. They don't look at us. They gaze out because they're like, want to defend against anything to protect us. Anyone who's protecting you isn't looking at you. Right. They're looking at what's in front. And as we age, because they don't look at us, like, they'd actually be really surprised to know. Like, oh, like I'm now 42. Like, I'm not. I'm actually not nine years old anymore. Like, I'm an adult. And there really is something to reminding.

That part of you.

Like, I know this might be surprising to you. It's 20, 23. You're like, I'm 40. I know it's still hard to prioritize my own needs. It's still unnatural. But I'm not a kid anymore. Like, it isn't as scary now as it was then.

And I would add to that what I'm finding right now is all of that Is true and hard. It's a big adjustment. But if you layer back on the part of the aging parents is you have to get there because your parents aren't there to take care of you anymore. That is quickly shifting to, they need me to be the adult and the grown up.

And I would say, though, Renee, I think the model you probably unconsciously had as a mom was caregiving your kids. Like, is almost done. At the expense of caregiving yourself.

Yeah. Which was probably modeled to me. That's definitely the era my mom came from. Yeah. I'm just trying to do it differently. Right. I'm trying to do that under the watchful eye of my mother now, which.

I 100% is this added pressure and this opportunity to. On both sides. I don't think caregiving of our kids in a selfless way actually works for anyone. I really don't even understand it. I think selfless parenting is actually disturbing. I don't think any sturdy leader is ever selfless. Okay. But if we're caregiving for our kids and we're pouring everything into them, it's not that sustainable. But I get that people keep trying to do it. But here's the thing for you, Renee. Caregiving for two sets of people, two different generations, in that quote, selfless way, like, I promise you, like, you will implode. Like, it's almost the fact that you have aging parents the exact right time for you to say, you know what, like, this is literally impossible. I have to make a change in the way I think about caregiving of both sets because I'm seriously at my breaking point. And if nothing pushed me to take it this seriously until now, the fact that my parents are here in this way is probably the wake up call I needed. Not to not care about them, not to not be involved with my kids, but to start putting myself back into the caregiving equation. I can't be the only person in my life who isn't worthy of my care. I can't. And you're right, the process is going to be messy and it's going to be uncomfortable. And then my last thing I really want to ask you is who is on your team? And I mean it. Who is on your Renee carving out a little bit more space for herself. I am texting that person. They know about that kind of protector part. They know about my selfless narrative. They know what to expect. They know my panic. They know what to encourage me. Who's on your team? Because we cannot do this alone.

Yeah, absolutely. My husband. And I am so fortunate. He gets it, he sees it, he supports it. He's all in. And he is the one who pushes me to enforce the boundaries. So I'm so grateful. And then I have, I have three close girlfriends. They just happen, sadly, to be scattered across multiple countries, but they're on speed dial, right? And they know me and they call me out. So I'm so grateful.

That's amazing. And I would use this conversation to turn this into something concrete. Like, that's a great text chain to have. And let's say it's not like I'm only gonna come to you when I need your encouragement. We're gonna do the opposite. This is a proactive text chain. Every Sunday night, every person on this chain has to name something they're doing that week and which day they're doing it where they are carving out something for themselves. And it's gonna feel uncomfortable because we see it documented, you know, to text your friend, whatever her name is, on Wednesday, hey, are you actually taking that walk by yourself? Whatever it is? And we can really do these proactive experiments.

Yeah, that makes great sense, for sure.

This conversation is so important. And I promise you, I see the people listening who are nodding and crying and say, like, renee's story is my story. Renee's story is your story is so many caregivers stories. And I feel, I really, I feel excited for you about what's ahead and very, very confident that you'll be able to put yourself back in the equation while not losing the essence of the way that you care for so many other people. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com/podcast. You could also write me@podcastoodinside.com Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world, and parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident, and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's totally game changing. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jessie Baker and Eric Newsome at Magnificent Noise, our production staff includes Sabrina Farhey, Julia Natt, and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go, let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain Good Inside.