We Are Bigger Than Our Mistakes

This is good inside. And I'm Dr. Becky. Today we're talking with Lovey Ajayi Jones about troublemaking. No, not the bad kind of troublemaking. The good kind.

I feel like I'm giving little Lovey the lessons that I wanted to make sure I would have received over and over again. That sometimes I did for my mom, sometimes I might not have, and how, like big Lovie, now I know when I make mistakes, it's often hard to remove myself from the mistake itself. It's okay to make mistakes. You just have to learn and grow from them. Also, you are bigger than the mistake that you made. Like, you are still lovable. You are still worthy of confidence. You are still somebody who deserves grace and compassion.

Lavi's latest book is Little Troublemaker Makes a Mess. It's the children's version of a book she originally wrote for grownups and then adapted for teens. What I love about the book is that it shows us that good kids with good intentions sometimes struggle to make good decisions. And this doesn't call for punishments or lectures, but for connection and learning. We'll be back in a minute. You have now written three books about being a troublemaker. That is, three books about being a troublemaker. And so I just want to know more. And where I want to start is, I guess, where I'm often curious about with people. Like, were you always a troublemaker and kind of who inspired you or what inspired you to become a troublemaker?

Yes, I have actually written three books. It was not the plan to write three books about this, but, hey, that's where we found ourselves. But I think I actually have always been a troublemaker. And for me, what I determined that to be is, like, the person who will do the thing that they know that other people might not like because they feel like it's the right thing to do. So I was a kid who got in trouble for her mouth because I would challenge authority. Being Nigerian, a big part of culture over there is just respect for elders. As a Yoruba person, specifically, like, you're taught early on that you need to have deference for anybody who's older than you. Like, to the point where in Yoruba language, there's actually pronouns for when you're speaking to somebody who's older than you. We don't have pronouns for he or her, but we have pronouns for when you're speaking to an elder. So I was a kid who got in trouble because, like, my brother, who's four years older than me, whenever he would challenge me or he'll say something that I didn't like. I would always say something back. And technically I wasn't supposed to, but I'd be like, look, he disrespected me first. Like, that wasn't fair. So you just happened to hear the part that I said back to him. So I would do that over and over again. And so when I got in trouble, it was literally for that all the time. So. So. And I'll do it. And then afterwards, when I got in trouble, I'd tell my mom, whatever the punishment that I got was afterwards, I'd go, mom, I don't. I think you owe me an apology. Because that wasn't fair.

And she would say, you're out of your mind. Or she would say, oh, yeah, I'm sorry, lovey.

She would literally just laugh me off. She'd just be like, go sit down somewhere. Okay. But, like, I. I felt better because I said what I felt like I needed to say. Like, I couldn't withhold what I had to say. So I'd be like, well, I said it to her, so I did my part.

So can you walk everyone listening through, like, kind of an arc of, like, the main theme of what little Lovey does, how she kind of makes trouble? Cause I'd like to kind of get into some details, but it would require setting a foundation.

Yes. So I've always wanted to write a story about little me because I think about all the little girls who were kind of overconfident, had a lot of mischief. They were really. They're really kind. They have big hearts, big feelings, big personalities, and kind of the ways in which we show up in the world. Because the confidence gap for kids, especially girls, starts at, like, 10 or 11. So I was like, I want to start writing about this little girl whose problem is the opposite. She's overconfident. And she has to learn that sometimes you might not know everything. Sometimes you might need help. Sometimes you actually do need to listen to the people around you. And I see your heart, I see your kindness. I see where you're coming from, and I want you to be able to channel it properly. So Little Troublemaker Makes a Mess is about this little version of me who wants to do something nice for her mom and her sister's like, let's not. Okay? There's food in the fridge. And she basically tries to cook herself, and it goes awry. She makes double messes. And at the end of the book, she learns that one, you gotta listen to people. Because sometimes rules are There to keep you safe. But then two, I love you anyway. Even though you made this big mess. I love you anyway. But help me clean it up.

All those. So many things can be held as true there. Yes. And there's so many things, Lovey, that resonate about this book and the story. And one of the core things that I think you actually illustrate.

Right.

That's illustrated in this book, is she is a good kid who is having a hard time. She's a good kid with good intentions.

Yes.

Who hasn't quite figured out the exact way to turn her intentions into a helpful reality. But because she made kind of that mistake, that doesn't mean the bad thing made her a bad kid. Like, her identity is separate from her behavior. You really show those as separate, which I think. I think it's so easy. And I'm gonna put myself there too. Right. I have three kids. Like in the moment when you're like, oh my goodness, my kid just created a disaster in my kitchen, it's really easy to scold your kid in that moment as if they are the mess, as if they are the mistake. What is wrong with you? And I always can act it out.

Well.

Cause I said it so many times. I've had practice with my own children. But separating instead, in your book, this is a kid who's trying to do big things. Don't we want our kids to do big, helpful things in the world? But she hasn't figured out how to channel that yet.

You know what's interesting is this book is actually I feel like I am giving little Lovey the lessons that I wanted to make sure I would have received over and over again.

Yes.

It's okay to make mistakes. You just have to learn and grow from them. Also, you are bigger than the mistake that you made. Like, you are still lovable. You are still worthy of confidence. You are still somebody who deserves grace and compassion, even if it's embarrassing. So it's interesting. I actually wrote it for grown up me. Who needs to hear this and who needs to feel this. Who needs to remember the little version of her who needed to give herself grace in these moments too.

Yeah.

That's so powerful. Right? The things we needed to hear as kids are still the things we need to tell ourselves now. Probably the things we want to share with other people. It's all the same message. Yeah. I. I often think when I struggle with something, like I do, the way I ground myself, you know, when I yell at my kids or snap at someone or whatever it is, it's Like, I am not proud of my latest behavior. And my latest behavior doesn't define me. It is that separating behaviors on one side identities on another. And I think people worry. They're like, doesn't that let you off the hook? And I'm always like, you know how you can let yourself off the hook for change? You can spiral in self blame.

Like.

Like, do you wanna never change? Okay. The best way to never change is to shame yourself and blame yourself. Physiologically, it's a freeze response. And change is the opposite of freeze. So if you wanna leave yourself on milk, it's not like I say, oh, Becky, I yelled at my kids. I'm gonna go party and celebrate myself. Obviously, not that that would be kind of odd, but there's a lot between that and spiraling into, I'm a monster, I'm the worst. And what's in between, I think, is separating. I'm not proud of my behavior. My behavior doesn't define me. Now that I've separated those two things, I can then, I think, have the energy to ask, what do I need to do to change? And I think little lovey kind of figures that out in the book, because your book, it made me reflect on my own childhood. I was such a good girl. I was not a troublemaker. I was not. I'm just growing into my troublemaking ness.

It's never too late.

Never too late, exactly. But I wasn't. I think I got the message so early that all my good behaviors assured me of my good identity. And, like, so the best way to be all the good things kids want, to be loved and valued and worthy was to notice what everyone wanted of me and kind of mold myself accordingly.

Yeah.

And be convenient. Be convenient.

Be convenient. Ooh, let's talk about that. Let's talk about that. Like, convenience is a personality trait that a lot of us will adopt as a way to feel lovable and accept it. Even me, the troublemaker. There are times when I struggle with that, where I want to be the convenient friend, the one who's not asking you for a favor. The one who's not like, I need a ride to the grocery store. You know what? I'm just going to Uber myself anyway. Even though I'm going to be carrying seven bags because I want to be convenient. So I'm not bothering you, so I'm not a burden on you.

Yeah.

Convenience.

Is that the opposite in a way of good trouble?

Yes. Yes. And let's be clear. We can be troublemakers in one area in our lives and still Be the good girl, the convenient person, the other area. So it's not like once you become a troublemaker personally, you're going to be a troublemaker professionally. It is like, you will find silos. Like, I struggled with being a troublemaker in friendships because I was a kid who was like, I don't ever want to be a burden on those who are not obligated to me at all. So I want to be the friend who's just like, you don't got to worry about me. I'm low maintenance. You know, as a partner, I'm low maintenance. I had to, like, take myself out of the idea that we were not born to be convenient to the world.

It's so interesting you say that, talking about being born like, babies are the least convenient people, right? They literally are like, I am hungry. It is two in the morning. I don't give a damn. Like, I am gonna scream to get my food. And they're never like, is it too much? Is it too much?

Am I too loud, Mom?

Yeah, like, have I yelled too much right from birth? You are a ball of desire and want expressed. And yeah, you're right. Kids, it is. It's the word I think about the most with kids that I feel like people don't tell parents, like, just so you know, your child is gonna be very inconvenient. They're not bad. But when they have that tantrum in the grocery store, like, I'm also like, this is. I did not. I did not plan for this. I did not want this. This is very inconvenient. I was just trying to pick up some Honey Nut Cheerios. Like, I did not want the meltdown about the chocolate. And now I'm not gonna be late to my other appointment. It is so inconvenient when someone else has something they want that's not in line with your wants. It's inconvenient.

Yeah, it is inconvenient. But I think about how many ways have we swallowed down the truest version of ourselves because we did not want to be inconvenient? In how many instances can we think about our lives where we've lived out moments that have shaped the rest of our lives simply because we didn't want to be inconvenient? How often do we go against what is our purpose because we don't want to inconvenient? Whether it's our parents desires for us, whether it's the dreams we think we should have, whether it's what we should be doing, whether we should people, everyone Thinks I should go to college. I'm only going to go to college because I want to go. Like we define our lives in the moments when we're like, I don't want to be inconvenient, so I'm just going to go with somebody else's desire. And I just always think about, like, when I'm on my deathbed, will I be proud of the moments where I chose somebody else's wants over mine? Like, will I look back on my life and go, I am proud that I made sure everybody else got what they want, not me? Yeah, I probably won't be. So I gotta choose different.

Can you speak a little? I know. Speaking about convenience and life path and parents, there were some moments you thought you were going to be a doctor?

Yes, I thought I was going to be Doc McStuffins before Doc McStuffins was a thing.

You really missed out. That would have been a. That would have been a good cartoon.

Missed out. That would have been. Man, that would have been okay. Missed out. Yeah, I thought I was going to be a doctor because growing up, like, literally from the time I was five, so I've always been really smart. I started reading at 3. Like I was a 3 year old who randomly just like open a newspaper and just start reading for no reason. I was super bookish. So it's funny, like as much of a troublemaker as I was, I was a kid who would come home from school, you ain't got to tell me to do my homework. I literally would open because I enjoyed doing work and reading and school. And I was always number one or two in my class. I'm talking. And I grew up in Nigeria. They ranked you from the time you were little. So like when you got your report card at 5, they actually ranked you on your performance at school. So I was always either number one or number two in my class. Everybody was like, you're really smart, you're gonna be a doctor. And I was like, yeah, because I want to help the world and I'm gonna become a doctor. So I took that dream on. I had heard it so much that I took the dream on. And then I started college and got a D in chemistry and realized I don't even like science or hospitals. And that's when the dream died. But what's interesting is when the dream of doctor died, it died very quickly without counsel, because it wasn't yours, it wasn't mine. Like, I wasn't reaching out to people like, yo, should I drop my degree? It Was very clear. I was like, nah, I don't want to do this. And I instantly dropped it. And I was like, well, my mom will deal. She'd be all right. And she was all right. She didn't find on to graduation, though.

Got to keep some things to ourselves, you know? Got to be smart in our troublemaking, you know?

Exactly.

And is that in terms of when people are thinking about being a troublemaker? Right. I think. I think troublemaker, like, I don't know. I picture some, like, kid in my elementary school class, like, pulling out the seat from under me or something and, like, falling on the floor. But that's not right. Well, you're saying this, like, wait, that dream wasn't mine. Like, I. That dream of being a doctor, that wasn't mine to begin with. I've absorbed it, but it wasn't mine. And maybe I can create space for my own dream. It probably won't pop up in the same moment, but give me space to figure that out. Be less convenient to the dreams of other people that they might have put on me. Is that the type of trouble, you know, you speak of?

I mean, I think about us making trouble within ourselves, to us disrupting ourselves. Because to be a troublemaker truly just really means that you are somebody who's dedicated to being a person of positive impact in this world, and you would do what needs to be done. Which also includes honoring yourself.

Yes, right.

Like, that, I think, is the most important type of trouble we can make first is start to honor yourself. You have to start being clear about what's yours and what's other people's and then being as true to it as possible. Like, there are people who will not date the people they want to date because they're like, my parents won't like them. There are people who will not go with the career they want. Oh, my parents only want me to be this thing, so I'm just going to do this thing. So when we start the trouble, it should start with us first internally, and then we can go out in the world and make whatever that trouble looks like in the room that we're in. So I think people think about, like, troublemaking as, like, yeah, creating chaos, being a contrarian, or being the person who's throwing word bombs. That's not it. Like, at the heart of the matter is, like, are you being as true as possible?

Yes.

In whatever rooms that you are in with yourself.

I want to make two links for everyone listening. First of all, I do think, and it's especially true for us Women that even asking yourself the question, what do I want? What might I want? What actually lights me up inside? Not because I see those things light up other people when they witness me totally different, but actually light me up. It is completely normal and expected to come up with the answers. I have no idea. I don't even know what I'm supposed to answer there. Or to have some type of panic feeling because it might be a sign that, oh, I've never actually kind of. I always think about gazing in before we gaze out versus how many of us were taught to gaze out first? Maybe only. But gazing in, if that's new to you and if you were raised in a family where you were valued for your convenience, then that's a very cycle breaking, disruptive question. Don't expect yourself to have some profound answer. The troublemaking process is probably just. Just the asking yourself of the question as a start.

Correct? Correct. I think one of the things that I think about and one of the questions that I ask myself is like, will my silence convict me? Like, will my inaction convict me? In the moments when the answer is yes, I usually will do the thing like, so make the decision. It's a simple question. Will my inaction in this moment convict me?

And can you make that first? And we can make it big. Can you make that small? Like even you were saying, I've struggled to like, really be authentic and speak up in my friendships. I've wanted to be some of the convenient, you know, the convenient friend. How in terms of silence there and kind of someone hearing, like, convict me. Like, oh, am I in some legal trouble? That's not what you're talking about. So even in a friendship, where could that, where could that show up? And then how do you push yourself to, you know, take up a little more space?

Who is the friend that you are currently secretly mad at, who you have not told, hey, friend, my feelings are a little bit hurt. I think we should have a conversation. Here's how I'm feeling. Because what's happening is as you're sitting on this secret feeling, and if this friend pops up and you give them attitude or you're being short or you're giving no grace, and they're like, wait, what's happening? And the friend walks away now feeling hurt in that moment. I feel like your silence convicted you, your inaction and telling this friend, hey, I'm actually feeling this way. I feel like that's a conviction because now this friend has no idea this can erode your relationship that you've Built over these years, all because you are not being honest about how you're feeling.

Yes.

And I often find that the feelings and wants and needs we have that we don't express, maybe we gain convenience. We always end up with resentment. You end up resentful about that friend. How do they not know I'm upset. I'm resentful that I'm at this meeting. I never wanted to be here in the first place. Carrying around resentment is so heavy, and it's just. It presses you so down.

Resentment is weight.

Yes.

It sits on you. It sits on your shoulders. You wake up thinking about it. The person sees you. Like, you instantly have these bad feelings. Your chest gets heavy. It is one of those feelings that I try to avoid as much as possible, which is why I do try to be the person that speaks up. Like, if I'm upset at any of my friends, I try to not let it sit because I know me when I am mad or hurt. You will know even if I don't tell you. Like, my face will show it. The way I'm engaging with you will show it. My energy will show it. So I'm like, you know what? The thing about me is also, like, my face is an outside voice. I've always known that. I don't have a poker face whatsoever. I am not the one that you have to be like, I have to guess what she's thinking. So I'm like, if that's the case already, I might as well just say what I gotta say and tell you, hey, I'm pissed. I'm hot. Okay? And then let's talk about it, and then we can figure out what the common ground is. And every single time I've had a tough conversation with a friend, I've walked away with more understanding. Whether it's understanding of, okay, this friend really does cherish me, cares for me, is for me is a member of my village, or whether it's, yeah, I can't really be in relationship with this person anymore because they don't have grace, they don't have compassion, they don't have empathy.

Yeah.

So I always walk away with a data set that I can now move.

Forward with and, you know, love you as you're talking about the way you express yourself and kind of match what's going on inside with, you know, what you verbalize outside. There's a word that comes to mind, and it's a word I said recently to some people I work with. They're like, what does that even mean, Becky? Like, no one Says that. But you. But I was talking about the people I feel closest to my life, and they're people I can locate. That was the word I was using. I can locate them. And I feel like you're someone who people can locate. You're like, there she is. That's how she feels. That's her perspective. And I think people actually have a lot of safety and security around other people they locate. We often worry that it'll off put them. But it's very grounding to people to be like, there she is. There's no guesswork. There's like a clear boundary. That's where you start and you end. It feels very safe to people. And I mean. And it benefits. It feels best to ourselves. But it. But you can locate someone.

That is such a great, great concept and word. Because I do also feel safest with people who I can locate. Yeah. If I have to guess constantly what you're thinking, how you're feeling, if you're upset, I can't be safe in your hands because I'm spending half the time trying to solve the riddle, that's you.

Yes.

That's exhausting as a friend, it's exhausting. As somebody in a village, it's exhausting as a colleague. If you're always like, I'm not sure if my boss is upset at me. So I don't know if we're like, should I. Are they cool today? If you're hard to locate, if you're somebody who's hard to read and you pride yourself on that, just know you're also exhausting some people around you because they're constantly trying to solve the riddle that is you. Being the person that I am, I feel like I am easy to be in relationship and community with in general. Just because you don't have to do extra work with me to know where we stand, what page we're on. How I'm feeling, I feel like honest people encourage courageous people who are very blunt and direct, are actually doing the world a favor. It's one less thing to doubt, one less thing to question, one less thing to wonder what solid ground it's on.

A hundred percent. So let's bring this a little bit full circle. Why is it hard for so many of us to be located, to have some. There's some feelings that a lot of adults are like, yeah, yeah, I have a hard time locating that feeling in my own body. Anger, jealousy, feeling less than right. These are the ones like, ooh, I wish that was not me. So if we. If we Go back, and I'm thinking about your book. And we think about so many of the people listening here have kids. And I know we all want. I mean, in some ways, different things, but we all want a lot of similar things for our kids. Like, everyone I know is like, I would like my kid to be confident. I would like my kid to feel like they can have a full range of feelings. I would like my kid to know who they are and not always be motivated by convenience. Above all, like, most people are like, yeah, I'd sign on for that. And one of the ways we actually have impact in helping our kids become those adults are actually by the way we respond to them when they're struggling and making trouble as kids. Because if we assume their whole life, they're gonna need to make trouble. They're gonna have to take up space when other people don't want. They have to practice that in childhood. I always think we can't assume complete convenience and compliance in childhood and then hope for confidence and assertiveness in adulthood. Like, why would that even make sense? And so in your book, what I just love how you model is this way, there's a boundary. Like, hey, we can't do these things, and here's why. There's no permissive parenting going on. And yet the child is seen for her intention, for the new skills she needs so she can actually do good trouble instead of just kind of messy, chaotic trouble. And that difference between, you're punished, you made a mess, versus, hey, I kind of see what you're trying to do. Let's figure out how you can build the skills so you can do these things in a safe way. That is a huge difference and has huge impact for when those kids become adults.

I talk about how my mother did me the favor of letting me be who I was so I would get me. I would get in trouble because my brother's feelings was hurt ultimately, right? So really, my getting in trouble was because my brother's feelings was hurt. So she went to correct the measure. But when I would ask her to apologize to me, she didn't. She didn't respond in any harsh ways. She would just be like, all right, lovey, go have a seat. And I talk about how she let me be who I was growing up. Just in general, she trusted me with my life, and my confidence, had a space. So in my decisions, she let me have that space. You have a great point about how we're expecting these little babies to grow up to be these assertive world leaders when we're not practicing it with them. So when we live in a culture that now prioritizes harmony over justice, that's often in a dumpster fire, right? I'm always like, how do we get here? It's because we've been. All of us have been programmed, the culture's been programmed to just go with the flow. It's the fact that when kids are 8, 9, 10, their biggest concern is fitting in. In school, you're not supposed to fit in. You're not. It's just not a thing. It never happens. So just know that. And I've always had the. Maybe the gift and the curse of never fitting in, because I've always been different. Like, I look different. When I came to the US My accent was different. So being able to be different, being able to be confident, being able to work through stuff in our house can then allow us to model that stuff. Earlier, you asked me who showed me what it. What it meant to really be a troublemaker. I was watching my grandmother growing up. My grandmother was a woman who walked in any room, and people just, like, loved her instantly. She took up space without any type of apology. She didn't have a high school diploma, but she could have a conversation with the president or a taxi driver with the same type of energy. So I also kind of watched her, and she gave me permission to be this bold woman. I saw how people even treated her as a woman who was confident, who was like, I'm gonna celebrate myself and how people still deeply loved her. So I think it modeled to me early on that I can still be this girl and still exist in a world where I am loved. So I brought that into the book because my mother in the book is actually very similar to my mom now in that she would have actually treated very similarly. Like, girl, not, you tried to cook. You're not supposed to, but I see what you tried to do. But go sit down somewhere. You gonna help me clean this up? And I think, you know, just the fact that we're modeling what our parents are allowing us to, what our early authority figures are allowing us to, what our teachers are saying. Like, your voice matters. You're really smart. I was affirmed a lot when I was little in terms of how smart I was. So I actually grew up knowing I'm smart. So you can't tell me I'm not smart. I know it. People have told me this. So I think for parents, it's really about creating the space and allowing them to be confident and even having the arguments with them have the Arguments with your kids and be like, no, I don't like it. Oh, why don't you like it? Well, tell me this thing, like, have the conversation. So then they also learn that you can push back in the world when you're outside, even on the people you trust the most.

So I have one more question, and it's been on my mind the whole time. And part of me is like, this is like a whole nother episode. But I also feel like it wouldn't feel right to not ask. So here we go. So thinking about parents reading this book and having a kid I have, right. And we talk about girls, especially. I have one daughter, and it's so important for me for her to grow up knowing, like, yeah, you take up that space. You have those big feelings, like, you speak up for you. You are not here to fit in. Push back. When it feels authentic to you, speak up. And I'm also very aware my daughter's like me. We are like tiny white women.

Yeah.

And we have a privilege around a lack of the same fear of retribution or misperception around using our voice and pushing back. And so can you speak to that? I think about some parents I've had really kind of long conversations with some black parents who say very frankly to me, like, yeah, like, my world isn't your world like this. Speak up and make trouble, Becky, for your daughter, like, that's very different than for my black son. Yes. And so I'm sure you have thoughts on that. I'd love to hear some of them.

I love that question. So one of the things that I have us think about is when we're thinking about making trouble, sometimes we're thinking about, oh, I don't want to make trouble for myself. If one of our biggest values is kindness. And a lot of us will rank kindness as a high value, I think, okay, even if you're not speaking up for yourself, how are you speaking up for the person sitting next to you? And how is that kindness value showing up in the room in a real way? So one thing that that requires is for you to figure out what your privileges are. So if you're like, all right, I'm the girl who people do not find threatening, and I know I don't have much retribution or the stakes are not high for me. I think it's especially important for you to figure out ways that you can be the backup for somebody else. You can speak up for somebody else. Right. So for parents of white kids who are talking about race, who are talking about what it looks like, for you to hold your power in a room, consider talking to them about. In the times when you see some of your classmates being treated unfairly, can you use your voice for them? Because it will go further. The black boy who might not be able to push back on his teacher because he's already been considered aggressive because one time he raised his voice, he will get more quiet because society has told him, I will punish you for your voice. But the white girl who's sitting next to him who's like, people consider me safe, who is like, I will raise my voice, and people still don't consider me aggressive, should use her voice and say, hey, that actually wasn't okay, because in that moment, she's loaning her power to him, and he needs it. So I think the challenge is for all of us to start thinking about the ways in which the rooms that we're in, the power that we're walking with, the power that we're holding that somebody else might not hold at that moment, how can we use it? And I think for kids, it's a great way to also make them understand that that's an action that they can do any day that can make a big difference. So saying, hey, I support what my classmate just said, or, hey, I want to back them up here. I heard that that is exactly what happened. They were actually telling the truth. Even that moment is a big moment of difference, because you now saying, hey, I'm plus wanting what they just said. I am witnessing. I am adding my currency. I am adding my voice. That is how you shift the world. That's how you change rooms. That's how you make impact. I think people think about impact as like, oh, I have to start a nonprofit. I have to do a big fundraiser. No, I actually want you to think about the room that you're in, whether you're young or older. How do you make a difference? How do you loan your voice, loan your power, loan your privilege for somebody who's not being given the same space? So we're never too young to be able to make positive impact in the room. So for the tiny ones who are also like, yeah, I kind of just exist there, and I know I'm not big or strong. I think your strength comes in knowing your power, whatever it is, right. And using it, even in the small ways, the tiny ways to make the room better than it was. That's our challenge.

And just to connect that to something you said earlier, like, will my silence convict me? To be aware when someone else has been silenced and help them through feeling your presence and your strength, like re access their own voice. That's an amazing way to use your own power.

Absolutely. And it's one of the most valid ways. If there's one thing we can all walk away with, it is the idea that being positive making a great difference in the world. It's not in the big moments where you're being led loud, loud, loud. It's not in the checks writing. It is in the small moments when you loan somebody courage, when you tell somebody your voice matters, when you say I am backing you up, when you are telling somebody you belong here. Those are the moments that matter more than anything we can be doing outside. That's big and loud.

Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com podcast. You could also write me@podcastoodinside.com Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world and parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside Membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's totally game changing. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhey, Julia Natt and Kristen Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panica, and the rest of the Good Inside team. And one last thing before I let you go, let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves. Even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain Good Inside.