What You Need To Know About The Emotional Lives of Teenagers

I think that, Becky, if you or I were to try to do a Teenager's Day, my third period would be like, I'm out. I'm done. I'm not putting up with one more adult who's telling me what to do, or I cannot stand that kid who is sitting next to me, and I can't take it. They put up with a huge amount.

Dr. Lisa Damore gets teenagers. She's a clinical psychologist with 30 years of experience working with the pressures, hormones, and emotions of teens. So if you have a teenager in your home, or if one day you will have a teenager in your home, then turn this episode up.

We very rarely with teenagers in our own homes, get a very good picture of their overall mental functioning because they are more vulnerable at home. They are more likely to express concerns. They are more likely to fall apart. And we should not generalize that to think that that's what's happening. And I would say, like, usually, like a huge, massive majority of the time, the fact that they can lose it at home or fall apart at home or be weepy or kind of all over the map at home is what allows them to be the sturdy, solid, reasonable human beings they are under conditions that are actually quite difficult.

Dr. Lisa Damore now has three books on teenagers, and all of my friends with older kids have told me that they are required reading. She's the author of Untangled and Under Pressure, and now she's written a book for teens of all genders, the Emotional Lives of Teenagers Raising Connected, Capable, and Compassionate Adolescents.

I really wasn't planning on writing another book. I was sort of taking a little bit of a breather. But the combined effects of teenagers suffering as they did through the pandemic, and then also the cultural understanding of what makes for mental health and how we help kids with distress becoming a bit off course in my mind. I really felt like it was time for me to try to lay out what we know from the academic and clinical side about what healthy development looks like and what actually the place of distress in our lives is, which is actually a very important part of our lives, and to try to offer reassurance to parents that there's so much they can do in their own homes to care for their kids.

I'm Dr. Becky, and this is good inside. We'll be back in a minute. So mental health and teens. I feel like this has been a headline everywhere. The statistics. Right, so just mental health. How do you think about that term? What is mental health?

So really, the book centers on a definition that I. The way I describe it, but, you know, you're a clinical psychologist. I think, you know, it's how we all think about it together is that mental health is actually not about feeling good. And this. This is a huge issue because I think that equation has emerged in our culture. Rather, it's about having feelings that make sense in the context you're in, and then, most importantly, being able to handle those feelings well in ways that give relief and do no harm. So there's a lot of room for distress in how we talk and think about mental health.

Let's just jump right into an example there. I'm just gonna paint a picture and maybe could you respond, like, from the feeling good standpoint, here's what a parent would think a kid should look like. And from a mental health as defined by Dr. Lisa Damore standpoint, here's what it would look like. Okay, so my kid gets cut from varsity soccer. My kid is in a lot of really difficult classes, is not doing as well as they might like. A couple of their friends start dating people, they feel like nobody likes me. Actually, I feel like I don't look as old as the other kid. Okay, I'm gonna stop. Yeah, Give me, like, the fork in the road. Because I always think our framework determines how we feel, what we do. And I think you're talking about a big framework shift. So let's lay those two things out.

Sure. And I mean, what. I love what you just described. I mean, you just described a week in the life of a teenager. Right. Like, everything you're describing is, like, right down the middle of the road of what families are living with. And so let me just zoom us out a little and then zoom us back in. Everything you're describing is going to upset a kid. Right. Getting cut, struggling academically, feeling like they're a little bit on the out of what's happening on the social scene. And all of those things are going to foster distress. Like, there's no getting around that. And what you said about the headlines, I think that part of what parents are up against right now is that in a lot of the headlines around the adolescent mental health crisis, which is real, there's no meaningful distinction made between adolescents being in distress and adolescents having a mental health crisis. And so what I am up against in my clinical work is parents who are living with a kid who's having that crappy week. Right. That week that is completely garden variety, seeing tons of distress and thinking, do we have a major mental health concern? Because my kid is in so Much distress. So that is what's scary. Okay, so to go to your idea of like, okay, let's. Where's the fork in the road? Yeah. If your kid gets cut from a team, as they do, we should fully expect they will be upset about that, right? They will be. You know, it has vast implications sometimes for kids, and it's very, very distressing. The presence of distress is actually not something that you or I, Becky, become alarmed by. In fact, this is the real fork in the road. It's evidence that the kid works perfectly. Right. It's evidence of their mental health.

Yes.

Okay. Where the road forks is what happens next. Okay. So does the kid who is sad about getting cut from the team or mad about getting cut from the team, go listen to angry or sad songs to kind of catalyze those feelings and have them out a little bit, talk to their good friends about what happened and get some support? Maybe cry. Crying is a great way to express distress that does no harm and gives relief. Maybe go for a run, maybe then resolve to figure out how they're not gonna have this happen next year or what else they're gonna put in that place. Okay, so that's as good as it gets. Those are the outcomes we're looking for where we become concerned. And there are places, right? It's not like all of this is okay where we become concerned. If the kid is like, I am so upset. I'm gonna get super high to deal with this, and I'm gonna stay high all week until the feeling dies down. Or I'm gonna get on social media and be really crummy to the kids, you know, about the kids who made the team. Or I am going to hop on my video game and be there for a week so that I don't have to think about this and cut out all other aspects of my life. Then we're like, okay, so the kid is getting relief. You know, trashing people on social media is coping. You know, getting high is coping. Hiding in video games is coping. But it's relief that comes at a cost. And so what we're looking for is coping that is not costly. As long as your kid is coping in ways that are not costly, that's as good as it gets. That's adolescence at its absolute best. The distress is a done deal.

So, you know, this lines up with something I think about a lot, about feelings and reactions to feelings. And often when we see our kids really upset, we're like, oh, no, my kid's really sad. Or my kid feels so Left out or my kid feels less than the other kids, our kids are gonna feel upset and left out and less than feelings for the rest of their lives. I just know this as a fact. Cause I feel that still, as adults, like, the feelings are part of human existence. And how we react to the feelings, how we learn to cope with the feelings, that's where it's at.

That's where it all hinges. It's where it all hinges. And I will say, so I have a daughter who's 19 and a daughter who is 12. And so I've done. I'm on both ends of adolescence, actually, as a mother myself. And I will say there is such value in having seen what intense adolescent emotionality looks like in your own home. And I will tell you, Becky, like, my kids are great. They're doing great. They're sturdy, fabulous kids. I'm really lucky, and I know it. But that experience of seeing the full strength of a teenage emotion, I can hold two things in mind at the same time. One is. That is harrowing. That is terrifying, right? That is so intense. Even if it turns out an hour later, the kid doesn't even remember what it was that made her so upset. And then side by side by that, thinking, okay, I'm a psychologist. I've seen a lot. I know that this is actually not grounds for concern. But I've had moments in my own parenting where I have thought, if I did not know this is standard fare, I would be terrified right now.

Like, what? Give us, like, give us some examples. This is part of adolescence. Like, it's hard. It's gonna be tricky. And it's part of it.

Absolutely. So one of the stories I tell in the book is about a friend who I had lunch with, who I see her shortly after Christmas, and she's like, oh, my gosh, I almost called you. And what she goes on to describe is that her daughter, who has just turned 13, had meltdown after meltdown through the holidays over things that were, even to the girl herself, small. She didn't get what she wanted from the grandparents. And that wasn't the issue. She just felt bad about not wanting it. She was really sorry to see Christmas getting, you know, put away. And the kid's response was that she was doubled over, sobbing. Doubled over. And even as she was doubled over, sobbing, the kid was saying, I feel crazy. I feel like I do not know what's happening. Because that kid could hold two things in mind. Like, one, I am overreacting. And two, I cannot stop. And so I was so glad my friend brought it up because I could say, okay, what you are describing as really, like, outrageous as it feels in the moment. That's standard fare. Especially the kid was 13. 13 is a wildly dysregulated time in emotional development. And so having that awareness that the distress, even at that volume, is not necessarily grounds for concern. What the kid does next is what we want to pay attention to. That was thankfully reassuring to my friend. But that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. The parents are like, what is this? And how worried do I need to be?

So I imagine a parent listening to this right now being like, oh, okay, that's relieving. And then I feel like a lot of them would have this question, Lisa. So when that happens, like, what?

What should I do?

What should I do in that moment with my kid?

Okay. I think the first thing we have to do is to serve as a steady presence, even if that means we have to fake it. I really mean that and I'm not a big believer in faking it. But here's the thing. When your kid is freaked out, it is very easy as a parent to meet them right there. And here is why. Either we want to try to be steady or we want to pretend as though we're steady outwardly. Because the first thing that's going to happen. And you know, I use this analogy all the time. And this comes up in your work all the time. Right. If we think about toddlers, they fall down and scrape their knee. They look at their knee and then the next thing they look at is your face. Okay. So the adolescent equivalent of that is the kid is doubled over sobbing over Christmas gifts. And they are really, really alarmed by it. They are looking at what's happening and then they're gonna look at your face.

Yeah.

And if you are on the ceiling, the experience for that 13 year old. So I, you know, like, I'm 52. Right. So if you're on the ceiling, the experience of that is, okay, I thought this was a 13 year old size problem, but the 52 year old is freaked out. This is a 52 year old size problem. This is terrifying to me. So part of what we are doing is with our composure helping keep it down to size. So that is the first thing you do. And it can be really hard.

I'm curious if you say the second or third is. I mean, I actually think for everyone listening, like that first thing, I don't know, I feel like it's probably like 95% of the thing and it's also like, whatever. The other 5% probably doesn't matter that much if we can't kind of work toward at least that first step. And I always think about things visually, too, and it is a teen, a toddler, an adult, you know, to adult relationship. When one person is so dysregulated, their feelings are greater than their ability to cope with those feelings in the moment. It's like a tornado. Right. And if you picture a tornado like a spiral in a big glass container, the tornado can only go so far. You're like, oh, there's a tornado, but it's contained. Literally. If you picture a tornado without a glass container, you're like, oh, that's not as safe in my house. And when we're steady, when we're faking steady, when we're saying, okay, Dr. Demora, this is normal. This is normal. My kid's good. Nothing's wrong with me or my kid. We are the container for a kid's tornado. When we. And I've been there, too. I know Lisa's been there. We all add our tornado to our kids tornado, and we always will and just hope to do it a little bit less over time. But when we add our tornado to a kid's tornado, of course the tornado gets bigger. It's not even our fault. It's just like. That's like. I don't know, it's like physics or weather, you know, it's just like. It's just what happens.

Yep. And it is hard. And I, yes, I've absolutely been there as a parent. I have absolutely thought, like, okay, if I can't keep it together with all of my training and knowledge, I can't imagine what this feels like for other families in their homes. Right. I mean, it's such a good thing to have your own children if you're helping people with their children. And so I just agree with everything you're saying. And I also agree, like, if you could get that, you know, the steady presence. Right. That container. Right. Probably doesn't matter much what happens next, though. I do, I do in the book, and I do try to be, like, incredibly concrete in the last two chapters of, like, let me give you 10 strategies for helping kids express emotions. Let me give. For helping them get things back under control. So I do really try to equip parents with. I call them a playbook. Playbook four. Playbook five. Right. Like chapters four and five. And usually the first play is you let the kid talk. You let them talk and talk and talk. And I love your tornado analogy. Like, it can only go so far.

I always say it can only go so far. And how it's such an act of love. And if you think about yourself, like, I always think, imagine I went to, like, a party, right? There was, like, some big party with, like, everyone I knew, and I was just, like, in a mood, okay? And I was going around to everyone, you know, my husband was there too, just being like, you're the worst. I hate you. Like, I hope awful things happen to you in your life. I don't know, right? If my husband, like, kind of did pick me up and, like, carry me to a room and sit with me and just be like, look, something's going on. But, like, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna let this thing destroy the world around you because you're not gonna feel good about it. It's not cause I'm embarrassed. It's cause, like, I know you. Like, this doesn't. I'm gonna sit with you, and we're gonna be in the smaller room as a container. It's not done because we're mad at our kids. It's done because we're on the same team and we're still protecting our kids.

Absolutely. And one of the beauties of adolescents is, right, they suddenly have a whole lot of language. And so I think about the toddler version of containment and the adolescent version. And containment meaning, like, helping kids get things back under control so teenagers will talk. And one of the studies I detail in the book that I need the reminder as a parent is that the act of expressing one's emotions actually confers its own relief. You know, we do neurological studies where we put electrodes on people's skin to check emotional arousal, or we look at the activity of the amygdala in real time in their brain to check emotional arousal. And when we ask people, we've put photos in front of them of distressing things and natural disasters, things like that. And to half of them we say, tell us what it feels like to look at this photo. And to half of them we say, tell us the facts of the photo. No one is responding. They're in a machine. They're alone. But the mere act of saying, I feel really anxious, I feel really upset, I feel really worried, or whatever it is the kid is feeling, we see from these objective physiological markers actually brings their distress down. So I think for us as parents, like, so step number one, fake or actually be a steady presence. Step number two.

Can you double click step number one so for parents, like, okay, I'm gonna do that. But like, do I say certain words? Like what words? What is it? Just do I take a deep breath and say something to myself to calm my own body? Like what? Let's just give them one thing. Like a steady presence. Maybe we each could. Could mean what? What are two different ways to be a steady presence?

Okay, so one is I. I mean, I think a lot of it is like, manage your face, right? Because the thing is about our kids. I don't know if your kids are doing this with you yet, but like, they will pick up my mood before I have picked up my mood. They'll be like, what's going on? And then I'll realize that I'm holding my face in a way that I wasn't even conscious of, but that they're aware of. So I would say first thing you do is think, like, can you put reassuring look on your face? Like that would be the place I would have you start. And it may involve taking some breaths, maybe rubbing their back. Right. I mean, language is probably not gonna be your best friend here, right? You probably are gonna do this almost entirely non verbally. And one of the analogies I've played with at times is, you know, if your kid is flooding, you need to be an emotional sandbag, right? So like whatever sandbag looks like to you, that's you in that moment.

Great. So I love that and I agree. Our kids feel our intention more than our words. Sometimes words can put our intention into action. So I think another option, I just find there's something about saying to a kid when they're really upset, like, I believe you and I'm here that like, is kind of like, I see the tornado, I believe it's real and I am that container. I'm here. So, you know, I think that's great. Like, check your face and maybe if you want language or like, I know, like, what do I say? I need that sometimes too. Just try that. I believe you and I'm here. So simple.

Yep. I love that. I love that. Okay, so then step number two is let the kid talk. Just let him talk. I mean, just listen, listen, listen, listen. And it feels like nothing. It feels inadequate. And what I love is when you try it and make space for it, you get reinforced in doing it again because kid is like, oh, thank you so much. And then you're done. And you're like, that's it. That's all it took.

So when you say listen, because like presence is an action, it feels like nothing But I always say that to myself, Becky, presence is an action. And I feel like what you're insinuating when you say is like, less is more.

100%. 100%. But I also. Let's just go deeper on this idea of like, presence while listening. So one of the strategies I offer in the book is something that I find I need, especially when a kid is upset and I'm moving into activating, want to give advice, want to sometimes just shut it down mode, to be honest, is to think about what really to listen means. And what it means is what I use is the idea of like, I pretend that I'm an editor and that the kids rant or meltdown or whatever is my reporter reading me their article of their distress. And my job is when they get to the end of the article, I have to produce the headline. So I am distilling, I am not adding. I am getting the essential meat of it back to them. And what you say, Becky, about like, they sense our intention. If you are listening so hard because you have, you know, to come up with a headline at the end of that article, they will sense that, right? They can tell, oh, she's really listening. She's not waiting for me to pause just to tell me what to do, right? She is actually, actually listening. And I will tell you, I very rarely get to a good headline. Like, I very rarely. I'll. I'll tell you the one time I did a really good job and it's in the book because I think it's helpful to have example. But mostly I don't or I blow it, but it doesn't matter because like you're saying, they can sense that you are all in on paying attention. So I'll give you the good example. My older daughter was a high school sophomore when the pandemic struck. And I would say end of March, early April, the full reality of what had become of school really, I think, snapped into focus for her. And she'd been home, obviously for a few weeks at that point. I remember where we were standing in the living room and she had a rant and she was like, oh, my God, like, they have taken away lunch, they have taken away seeing my friends. They have taken away clubs, they have taken away sports, they have taken away dances, they took away everything fun. But they left us the APs, they left us the homework, they left us the lectures, they left us the duties. And she was just beside herself, rightly so. And I listened, listened, listened. And at the end I said, oh, honey, man, it's like school is now all vegetables, no dessert. And she goes, yes. And then she walked out. And for the next hour she was okay, you know what I mean? Which, honestly, under those conditions, that was as much of a win as we were gonna get. But that's what we're going for.

Can we role play something? Can you give me a teenage rant? Because I think, you know, I think one of the things that happens when you're a parent is you hear your kids say something and you have this instinct, like, I'm gonna help them look on the bright side. I'm gonna tell them an example where that actually isn't true. And it's such well intentioned, like your gu. Well intentioned, but it literally always inflames. But I feel like role playing, it could be helpful. So, you know, teens rants, like, what?

Oh, I love this so much because I like, I truly love teenagers. Like, and I love how they describe the world. Right? And describe their own world. Okay, so, okay, so. Oh, my God, you will not believe what happened today. So here I am in AP US History and we were given a group project. And, like, I got an A in that class. I've worked so hard for this A in this class. And the group project, the grade will actually affect our overall grade. And this kid, Troy, who I have known since the seventh grade, he is one of the three people in our group and he does nothing. He does nothing. He is going to be bossy and annoying and useless to us, and this kid is going to destroy my grade.

Sweetie, look, it just seems like you're focusing on, like, the worst parts of your group. And I'm sure the other kids in the group will, like, really help you out.

You don't get it. Right? I'm still the teenager.

What's my grade?

Oh, yeah. D minus.

D minus.

But, like, also D minus for what you said, but like a plus for intention.

Totally. But. But I actually, I'm gonna challenge.

I'm challenge it. Okay, you're gonna challenge your grade.

We're all doing the best we can with the resources in that moment. And I know every single parent wants to do right by their kid. 100% of parents. And we've been fed over and over this idea. I think a lot of us were parented this way, that when people are upset, in distress that our job is to, like, pull them out of that hole. Or I always think about it like, they're sitting on some bench of, like, distress. I'm on the bench of. I got the Worst kid in my group, right? They're on the. Ugh. Troy and my group bench. And my job is to pull them off that bench and be like, look at this sunny bench. It's the. At least I have Anna right? Where our job is to sit on the bench with them. The part of distress that's the worst is being alone in it. That's actually the only really impossible thing. And so in your example of like, this, it sounds. Again, it sounds like nothing. You're like, did I even do anything? But I always feel like if I ask myself with my own kids, Becky, what's the equivalent of just sitting on the bench? And then I know I'll be like, oh, that stinks. Oh, you really wish Troy wasn't in your group. Oh, the one kid you didn't want. I feel like when you're starting this, I tell parents, just don't have the conversation without a pen. Write down what they say, and then read it back to them. And I don't know, like, is that closer to an A? Like, what do you think a teen wants to hear?

So this is what I love about teens. Like, they're very strongly opinionated, so you cannot take notes and read them back to them. That you will lose them right there. But you can do that with a younger kid, right? So don't do that. But I think, honestly, you said it, which is. And I was taught this by a 9th grader in New Jersey. What they mostly want to hear from you is like, oh, man, that stinks. That just stinks. And I will tell you, 90% of my parental utterances at the end of the day are like, tell me more. And, oh, man, that stinks. Like, and that is all teenagers want. They're like, thank you. Thank you. Because here's the way we want to think about it from their standpoint. They got the group assignment in class, and they did not scream, throw themselves on the floor, look at Troy and scowl. In fact, they almost certainly walked over to Troy and were like, okay, what's your cell phone number? Let's see if we can find a time to work together this weekend. They were awesome. They were fantastic.

They crushed it.

They were crushed it. They did everything we would ever want. And the thing that allowed them to do it was the knowledge that they were gonna come home and be like, you are not even gonna believe what went down in AP US History today. So when they're bringing it, they're not bringing it like, I'm bringing it because I have this problem. I want your help. With sometimes they are. And we can get to when that's happening. They are usually bringing it in the form of I have held myself together all day and been the solid gracious citizen you want me to be at school all day and I just am bursting to tell you this and I need to discharge it as much as anything else. And a solid, oh man, that stinks is usually like boom, the end of the sentence, job done.

I love that so much. To remember when your kid comes home. Oh yeah, I got Troy in my group. And also the lunch was disgusting today at school. Why don't they ever give us anything good to eat and to almost hold on to like a different image of your kid walking around, getting Troy's number, walking to lunch, probably going like this, but then eating and moving on. That probably happened, right? Because we get locked into this one version of our kid and front of us and then we think that's going to be them forever. We actually think like my kid's going to be the 40 year old is going to. Right. Like we fast forward their lives. Like I often feel like, especially when cuz you're younger, you're like my kid's a sociopath, they're going to be in jail like, like in a second, right? Like, like how did I get there? But when they're teens too, and your, your explanation for all the parents listening that like your kid needs to like let out steam to you so they can like function and perform and be the version of themselves that can adapt the other moments when they're exploring the world.

Absolutely. And I don't know if you had this experience in working on your book, but I did with this one. Becky, the section where I'm sort of thinking some of this through about the fact that we very rarely with teenagers in our own homes get a very good picture of their overall mental functioning because they are more vulnerable at home, they are more likely to express concerns, they are more likely to fall apart. And we should not generalize that. To think that that's what's happening. And I would say like usually like a huge massive majority of the time. The fact that they can lose it at home or fall apart at home or be weepy or kind of all over the map at home is what allows them to be the sturdy, solid, reasonable human beings they are under conditions that are actually quite difficult. I think that Becky, if you or I were to try to do a teenager's day by third period, we'd be like, I'm out, I'm done, I'm not putting up with one more adult who's telling me what to do, or I cannot stand that kid who is sitting next to me, and I can't take it. They put up with a huge amount.

I love that. Like a simple but right on perspective. It's hard to be a teenager. And I think sometimes parents are like, it's not hard to be a parent of a teenager. Nope. That's also hard. Like, they're just both hard. It's hard to be a parent of a teen. It's hard to be a teen. And probably just saying that to your teen once in a while is probably builds some connection capital. Like, it's really hard to be 16. Just, you know, I know that's true.

That's all.

Walk away after.

Absolutely. I mean, like, would we want to go back, Right? Or would we want to do it now? Right? I mean, I think if we can put it in those framings, I mean, I got off easy. No social media college was easy to get into. You know, I mean, it felt really hard then, and it was really hard then.

Can you give us a little bit about that? I mean, technology, social media. Neither of us grew up with this. Right? Not in those years. How can parents help their teens? Kind of like, I don't know, like, minimize the downsides or talk about it in a way that it doesn't just explode, like, you don't understand. You know, any. Any brilliant advice?

I have advice. You'll decide. Okay, so you said something, I think wildly important just in the framing, which is minimize the downsides. So one of the things that I know to be true about social media is that there's probably not a kid on the planet for whom it is not simultaneously both good and bad. And you have to start from that understanding. Because when we roll up on them, like, oh, your social media is terrible. Like, get away from your phone. You've already lost them. Because they're like, you are making it clear you do not understand. This is where I have a lot of fun. This is where I have deep and meaningful connections with people I care about. This is a place where I'm creative. This is a place where I'm learning discourse at a level that is, like, way above what we had as teenagers. So if you leave that piece out, you're already talking to the hand in some ways. So I think that the first thing we need to do is to recognize it has pros and cons. And the nice thing about teenagers is they'll be the first to tell you that again. I quote a kid in my book, I love my phone and I hate my phone. So meet them there. So get a lot of information. One of the ways to do this and one of the ways, I think, to not have the door slammed in your face when you're trying to talk to your kid about social media is to remember that what it means to them. We really. We don't understand. We never used it like they use it. We were not teenagers with it. And no one wants advice from somebody who doesn't really get it. Right. Like, nobody does. And the analogy, this sounds kind of goofy, but it actually really works. If we come up to a teenager and say, I need to talk to you about your social media, we should imagine the equivalent would be them coming up to us and saying, I need to talk to you about your mortgage. Right? Because we'd be like, go away. Like, what do you know about mortgages? And so instead, if your teenager came up to you and said, do we have a mortgage? You say, well, yeah, we got a mortgage. And then they say, how does the mortgage work? And then we explain how the mortgage works, and they say, and what are we paying in terms of, you know, what's our current interest rate? And you give them all this information, and then if at the very end of that, they were to say, do you understand that I think the rates have been adjusted and you could refinance and save some money. We'd be like, okay, but at least we'd be open to it. Yes. So we need to do the flip around social media.

So what is that? Like, yeah, yeah. What's the start?

Say, like, obviously, like, a lot of adults are on the ceiling about social media. How worried should we be? Like, ask your kid that question. How worried should be? Like, what are the good parts? Like, ask them what are the best parts of this? Like, you know, like, if suddenly phones just disappeared, like, what would you miss the most? How is it most useful to you? How does it serve you best? Like, go all the way down that road and then say, what don't you, like, where is it not helping you? Where's it ruining your mood? So that's how to have the conversation. And then you can say, is there anything you want to do differently? Is there any I can help with a teenager? That's where you're gonna win. The other thing I will say is, do not let it mess with their sleep. And it's so basic and so important. And I would say, if you do nothing else, try not to have it mess with their Sleep. And the best way to do that is to not have it in their bedrooms when they're supposed to be sleeping.

Okay, so I'm just thinking of a parent who's like, my kid's like, it's not. Nothing bad about it. Like, leave me alone. No, I don't have any problems with it. And you're thinking, ooh, there's a, there's a gap in how we're seeing this. Cause I see this, you know, my kid, you know, whatever it is, is spending so much time on there, or I see how it affects their self esteem, or I actually know about some really tricky conversations that, you know, happened on some of these apps that, you know, they maybe didn't get caught for, but could have. And it was, you know, not nice language. Like, how do you, how do you talk to parents about bridging this gap when maybe they feel like, oh, I'm not in the best place with my teens, so I do get the. The hand, but there are active problems. So what do I do?

Well, what I will say is give it a real chance to work, to be super curious about what's working for teens. Because what I find with teens is if you are earnestly curious and they see that, like, you really mean it, they are pretty open to saying, actually, yeah, like, this isn't what's working, or this is where I worry about it. So I would just say, don't, you know, even if you've had trouble with your kid around social media before, like, see if this new approach doesn't keep the door open a little bit. But it then gets into questions of, like, we still have to regulate it and we still have to make rules, and they're not going to, like, all of our rules. So. Especially for your audience, because I think it's a lot of families whose kids do not yet have it or are getting near it. This is a great time for me to say to your audience out of the gate, do not let it in their rooms. And this was a rare moment where it was an advantage to be a psychologist parent, having practiced for a while. Neither one of my daughters has ever had technology in their bedrooms. And the only way I was able to pull that off is that's where we started. And they knew from the beginning that that was gonna be the rule.

Even during the daytime.

Even during the daytime. And the reason for that is it actually still undermines your ability to sleep in that space if you've been using technology in that space. And, like, sleep is the hill to die on. And so what I would say, if your kid does not yet have access to digital technology, start there. And that alone, Becky, goes so far. Goes so far. The other thing I would say for younger families who are in the space of moving into digital technology at the moment, when your kid wants a phone, they want it so bad, right? They are desperate for it. And you will never be in a better negotiating position than in that moment. And there are kids like when you're there, like, I really need a phone. Everybody's got a phone. I really need this. Whatever, everybody's got it. You can basically say to them, all right, you can have a phone, you can touch it on alternate Sundays when the moon is full. And they'll be like, that is fine, just give me the phone. So the most important thing is to start enormously slow and add on as your kid is demonstrating that they know what they're doing or that they're handling it well. The other thing I will say, so my 12 year old has a phone which is younger than her sister got it. And the reason for that is I wanted her to be able to text her sister at college. Like they needed to have a way, a channel for themselves. The phone she has, which is an iPhone, because it's going to be her phone for a while, has no browser and it has no social media apps. She texts with her sister, she texts with her friends. And I think that's going to easily get her through sixth grade. Of course, a lot of this is regional. That's where it is in our community. I'm going to hold out as long as possible with that being basically a texting machine. So go slow, keep it out of kids rooms, do all of that and then the rest gets easier because you've really got some pretty tight reins on it and you can loosen those reins as kids are demonstrating that they are handling that well.

So, so helpful. A couple kind of final questions for you. Some maybe rapid fire. What do you think a teen would say it's like the number one thing that parents kind of get wrong about teens.

I love that question. I would say the number one thing, like it's hard because like I really, there's so much you could say. But the number one thing, they like us and they want us around. They like our company even what they don't like is our agendas. And so what I would say is teenagers want to be with and near us. They like that a lot less when every interaction is, where are you with your homework? What's going on with that teacher show me where things are with your college applications. Why aren't you working out hard? You know. You know, the tryouts are coming. That's where they have a harder time with us. But to be just quiet present. I wrote a piece years ago about being a potted plant parent. Right. Like, they just want you there. And I think it's easy for adults to not know this because it can feel very rejecting to have a teenager, but a genderless presence, man, that is what they're really looking for.

I love that agenda. Less presence. That is so good. Okay, two more questions. Biggest gap between the reality of adolescence as you've lived through it and your kind of clinical understanding of adolescence before you were in it.

Oh, man, they complain so much. I think that that was the part, like, you know, when you're a clinician, you get doses and they're focused on a particular problem that is usually, like, for lack of a better word, a real problem. As a mom, I just could not believe, starting by about third or fourth grade, that, like, 90% of what happens after school is, like, the rundown of indignities and injuries and insults and. And that overwhelmingly, just being like, oh, man, that stinks. Works beautifully. It's all they need. But I didn't expect the volume of detailed accounting of the day and its downsides. And also, Becky and I think it's really important for us to say, like, how much I don't like it. It's actually very unpleasant because I'm very tired at that point in the day. And the reason I want to say that is I feel like parents. We need to know that other parents, too, are in their homes feeling very not in the mood to hear the full grousing and the, you know, the full catalog of the day's injustices. But that doesn't mean that kids don't get to do it. And that doesn't mean it's not a beautifully working system for them to dump all their emotional garbage of the day and for us to go, oh, man, that stinks. I'm so sorry.

Yeah. So de Shaming. Okay. Something apparent listening can do today that's gonna make a difference in their relationship, even if their kid doesn't gratify the moment and say, thank you, Mom. Thank you, dad. That was. That was so bonding. What's something simple a parent could do today with their teen?

I think if you're raising a teenager, you've gotta take really good care of yourself. And I also think you need other sources of gratification. So, you know, my 12 year old, still thinks I'm funny, wants to go to the grocery store with me, like, we have a blast. I am very well aware that I am like on the clock. I'm stretching it already. And if all things go as they typically and healthily should, within the next six months, I am not going to be her favorite playmate. And I feel really grateful that I have a lot of other sources of activity, a lot of other sources of feeling valued and useful in the world because you're going to need that. I mean, by 13 or 14, your kid is not going to be the one who makes you feel good about yourself.

That is so provocative and deep and so, so good. For our kids, early years, often unconsciously, we can fill up on good feelings in ourselves through the way they need us, through the way they depend on us, through the way they lean into us when they're upset. And it can, it can really be like, I feel very purposeful, I feel very impactful. This lights me up inside. Look at this job I'm doing. There's like evidence. And that's really, I think, really helpful to think about when you have a teen. Definitely really helpful to think about also before you have a teen of, okay, no judgment. What percentage of my good feelings about myself come from my kids? Just like, where am I on percentage? And if that's not a percentage that I think is good for me or will continue to work for me, what else could give me good feelings? What else do I like? And that's so important for a parent, no matter how old your kid is. But I love what you're saying, Lisa. Like, when your kid is a teen, one of the best things you can do. Yeah, for you, but for your relationship with them is really lean into more of figuring out those things for yourself. Probably helps you tolerate when they're melting down and being rude because you're not looking to them to kind of fill you up in that moment. Oh, so good. Thanks for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com podcast. You could also write me@podcastoodinside.com parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world and parents deserve resources and support so they feel empowered, confident and connected. I'm so excited to share Good Inside membership, the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like valued parents. It's totally game changing. Good inside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent Noise. Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhee, Julia Natt and Kristin Muller. I would also like to thank Erica Belsky, Mary Panico, Ashley Valenzuela and the rest of the good inside team. And one last thing before I let you go, let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside.