Birth to Net Worth with Greg Herlean

Join us as we unravel our deep-rooted relationship with money, from earliest memories to eureka moments and building wealth. Birth to Net Worth with me, Trystan Trenberth. Hi and welcome to another edition of Birth to Net Worth. Have we got a great guest for you today. I met Greg probably about 2 years ago, um, you know, in the green room of a conference he was speaking at and had some products he had available that were really intriguing to me. I'd heard a little bit about these products before, but I'm sure Greg will speak a little bit about the products that he works with, how he came to work in that area. But Greg, he's founder of Horizon Trust, which you'll hear during the story, is his business. He's a great family man, husband, father, car enthusiast as well, and, you know, has a lot of time in real estate. I'm going to welcome to the stage here Greg Hurley. Greg, thank you so much for spending some time with us today.

Thanks for having me, Trystan Trenberth. Yep, looking forward to it. So thank you.

Fantastic. So Greg, give us a little background of, you know, what you're doing at the moment and, you know, how Horizon Trust has changed your life but multiplied that impacted so many thousands of other lives that you've helped through the business?

Yeah. So, man, I can unpack a lot with that question. I, I've, you know, most importantly today where I'm at today, I've got 5 children that keep me pretty, pretty engaged and in life and they're my why. And but I have really built and created success through real estate and actually maximizing and understanding how to avoid paying taxes and using retirement funds to build a business. And so I own a trust company called Horizon Trust, and we help individuals unlock their retirement accounts to invest in things that they, they understand and like rather than maybe the stock market, for example. So that's what I'm currently doing. But getting to where we are today, I know we're going to talk about that, but it's— this is near and dear to my heart. Because I, you know, at 21 when I dropped out of college, I, I actually jumped into this subject of self-directing. And, and so I start— I've been doing this for 24 years. I understand it. I understand how to, you know, find money to build business, to build real estate where it's at. I learned at a young age because I had no money. I started with no money, my family had no money. And so, so I know that works. I've had to do it a couple times. And so, so yeah, so that's, you know, I have a great team, a great office that supports me and our clients, but spend a lot of, a lot of time teaching people about a few concepts that most people are not aware of.

Brilliant. I know that Kelsey and your whole team has been very helpful with me and any clients that I've referred or potential clients I've referred to you and I think that leads really, really well into, you know, what was your first experience of money, your first memory, and what was the formation of your relationship to money? What did you decide money was?

I'll never forget it. I was 21 years old and my mother set me up on the— I came home from college for a long weekend and my mom set me up on this date with this girl from her church. And, you know, she— you know, mom's wanting to set you up. And so we go on this date. It's, it's a Wednesday, it's a lunch date. And for some reason, um, this girl— I understand why— probably was trying to a little bit flex or show off, if you want to say it that way, uh, and she— we, we, we go to her parents' house, you know, where she was home for the weekend from college as well.. And it was the first time that I saw what maybe most people had seen before, or maybe in the movies or on TV. But it was a Wednesday at like 2 o'clock after lunch, and her dad was washing his boat in the driveway of this mansion. And I— there, you might have heard boat and mansion. But the one of the most critical parts that I said is Dad was home at 2:00 on a Wednesday. Yeah. And, and I was like, now my dad is a great guy. He, you know, he worked a lot and he taught me how to work, actually. So I appreciate that. But Dad worked. He wasn't home on a Wednesday at 2:00 ever. And did we have a boat? Not a chance. But most importantly, I saw that and I was like, man, whatever this guy is doing— when you said, what's your relationship, your first experience of money? This was it. Because I, when I saw that and saw what money can do, I was like, whatever he's doing, I'm going to do it. And I didn't even know. I actually a month later dropped out of college and started working for this guy. And, and it didn't really matter as long as it wasn't illegal. I was going to do it because I wanted lifestyle. And so that was my first experience as far as creating my why and understanding what money can potentially do. You know, I had obviously lots of other money experiences right after that, but that's the first thing that I think of when I think of money and the benefits of having it.

Fabulous. So if we wind back a bit further, how did that contrast from, you mentioned a little bit in your intro that you know, you're talking about family and money. How did that contrast from your understanding and experience of money within the family relationship before you got to the boat and the mansion and the 2 o'clock in the afternoon on a Wednesday?

Yeah, I mean, look, my parents taught me— my dad, I mean, they taught me how to work. And we never went without. We had a roof over our heads. We had food. We We went to Orlando on vacation every year. That was our family vacation, Disney World, and literally every year in the minivan. And so, you know, my experience with money, he taught me, you know, my parents taught me about, you know, I had a newspaper route. I cut lawns. I mowed, you know, I mowed lawns and I shoveled snow in Chicago in the winter and, and, and I earned money and I, you know, I would tithe., you know, pay the church. I would save, um, and I would spend on, on things that I wanted. So I was learning about money and hard work at an early, early age. And, and, and that's, I think, obviously helped me as well. But I didn't— I wasn't able to totally dream of what I could do with that money or with money someday because I, I wasn't around me, you know, like even today, you know, today I'm doing things today in my life that I would have never dreamed of in my 20s, didn't even know it was possible. Um, and I do reflect on that, and I, and I try to appreciate that, those blessings, because I, when I was in my 20s, I never knew you could do or live the way that, you know, that, that a lot of days I live. They're not all that way, but there's many days that are a dream.

Uh, and so, so yeah, it's, it's funny how we we take for granted the accomplishments we make through life and don't necessarily make those contrasts. And I think gratitude being one of the most powerful growth, um, nutrients to our, our life, I think having gratitude for those— wow, I never even— this was never even on my radar to dream of, you know. I was looking to be a racing driver or a pilot or something like that when I was super young. But, you know, we look at pilots these days, they're not really earning that much money, and there's a lot of work to get there. And, you know, reading Rich Dad Poor Dad, yeah, really set things into shape for me as far as how this works. And you found your rich dad— is that contrast to the different lifestyle and the different application of money in a different way than you'd learned before?

Uh, 100%. Um, 100%.

So how— what were you doing for this guy? Was it the clichés in real estate and that kind of got you into that business, or was it a different aspect of business business that allowed you to later find yourself to that, that area?

He was actually in life insurance. Oh, it was terrible. Um, he was selling life insurance and annuities. And so, um, I, I— but it didn't matter to me, remember? I was like, okay, this is what we're gonna do. So, um, but he also dabbled in some real estate. And so what would happen is he would give me these dead leads or old leads and referrals, and I'd set appointments and find out who— what they had and if they wanted to meet with Chris. And so then I'd go with him and I was kind of like the secretary. I would do— I would fill out— I'd take notes, I would fill out applications. But when it came to annuities and investments, every time that, that investments came up, I only worked for him for 18 months, by the way. Yeah, but, but, but every time investments came up and annuities, people would tell him all the things they invested in. And so I met with, I don't know, probably a couple hundred different of his investors. And I got to see these wealthy people and I'd see that, you know, see what they were investing in. And almost everybody had real estate in their, you know, in their portfolio and they were excited to talk about real estate. No one's excited to talk about life insurance or annuities. It was his job to try to teach them or sell them on why they might want to invest in that. And, and so I was able to also learn how to sell, how to build relationships a bit. I did go on a mission that helped me a little bit with that as well, but I was able to see him in action, but then also see how people responded and what triggered them. And so I learned really quickly real estate was the triggering concept in the industry that people wanted to talk about. Everyone wanted to talk about real estate. And so that's when I started understanding, okay, people have money. And these people that have success have real estate that we're meeting with. I need to be involved and engaged in real estate. And so that's when I started really paying attention, studying real estate, going to the back of the room events and just understanding what real estate was and how it worked at the age of 22 years old.

What an incredible age. I mean, as a conference this weekend, I think the youngest that was really fully participating was like 17 years old. Wasn't real estate then. Um, this guy called Sean Callagy does Unblinded. He's spoken with Tony Robbins and different things. But yeah, having that early start is such a huge advantage. I mean, Warren Buffett, they say if he invest— started investing 5 years later, he may not have had more than about half of what the, you know, the wealth that he has now due to the power of compounding and, you know, other events that took place along the way. So Yeah, the early start's an incredible head start. But another thing that I'm working on at the moment is something called Midlife to Millions, which is to inspire middle-aged people, fathers, husbands, people that have responsibilities and costs in their life to be able to level up and know that they can reach and attain those, those accomplishments from a later start in life. And I think the statistic says that most millionaires gain that status in their mid-40s because they've had life experience. But if you've got to that point and you haven't had those aspirations or had a clear path to it, real estate is probably going to be one of those paths that accelerates people to get to that status. I think that's going to be really helpful for me when I'm working with teams like yours to redeploy people's money in a way that they haven't thought of before to, to multiply the wealth that they do and can build. During the years they have until retirement and hopefully bring retirement 15 years forward. If we can get a plan for a 5-year freedom number, build enough cash flow, it's retirement in the sense they don't have to work, but it takes away their survival relationship to money.

Yeah, I mean, you can't say— I mean, that's such a great mission that you have because it, it really is about Learning from your mistakes. I mean, look, I, I'm just trying to like apply what you just said, how that— I mean, I learned this at 21 years old, 22 years old. But guess what? 2009. So that was 15 years ago. At 30, I lost everything. So, so I had to kind of restart all over again. And I'm much smarter now. So people that are in that, in their 40s, having to start from scratch and/or start building their business, it's absolutely doable. And in fact, my business partner, when I partnered with him, he was 52 and I was 35. And he was— and I mean, in 15 years, if you do it right and you take advantage of kind of the rules, the vehicles out there, the compounding, avoiding some of the taxes, you can absolutely do it. And so that is, I mean, that's really encouraging. That's one of your missions and things that you help individuals do because it's, I think people get deflated, discouraged, like, oh man, I'm not there yet, or I'm starting at zero. Guess what? Even guys that don't start at zero, most of them start at zero, excuse me, just a few years ago. So it's okay.

Yeah, I think for somebody that's been in real estate for, you know, pushing 5 years now, it is easy to, you know, and looking at my earlier days to see kids that are getting in young, they don't have the bills, they don't have the families and that kind of stuff to think, oh, they got an unfair advantage. Well, if we look at the unfair advantage that I have in my mid-40s, I've got a whole life of experience to nail. I've got a whole life of networks and contacts that I have who, you know, I built relationship capital with. And the power of that could be well beyond that 10, you know, the, the 50-year, 20-year-old that's just getting into the business themselves. We have a different advantage, but we both have advantages, and there's no disadvantage if we look at it in the positive state of, state of being.

Yep, 100%. I mean, my son's in it. My son started at 20, you know, basically 18 months before me, and He's on his own journey and it's been fun to watch and be part of.

Yeah. So let's, let's— I remember hearing you speak at, I think it was Clever about this, about how you moved from the insurance side of things into the next steps that took you to starting Horizon.

Yeah. So actually, even before I started Horizon, when I, when I started in real estate, One of the natural things that happens is people are— and I was looking for money. I needed to find money and lenders, partners, etc., and banks weren't lending to me. I was young, I was new, and— but someone taught me this concept at an event, this self-directed concept. And obviously that's what I own. And what I do today is I own a self-directed IRA company. I didn't at 22, 23 years old, but I understood the concept of that there is tens of millions, actually at this point today, there's almost 100 million IRAs in the United States. Almost a third of our population has one. And that these individuals with IRAs can unlock and/or use part of their retirement funds or all of them and invest in me. And at 22, to understand that there was millions of people out there that had retirement accounts who were frustrated with the stock market and who would love to be involved in real estate rather than the stock market, this, this was a godsend message to me. I was like, this is it. This is how I'm going to find partners. This is how I'm going to build my business. It's exactly what I did. I focused on a vehicle that people are already unhappy with. To share and teach a message to them so they could potentially partner or lend to me. And so I screened it to the, you know, back then there wasn't much social media, so I was, I was sharing it. I was at RIAAs, I was at different, you know, I was at meetings, but I was, I was meeting people, talking to people about the subject. And then I found a handful of partners that would lend money to me or partner with me using their IRA. And that was a complete game changer for so many reasons. But in today's world, you know, since there's 100 million, which is over $4.5 trillion in these retirement accounts, there's no reason why anyone who says I can't find a partner or money to fund my deal, that you should never, never say that. They're, they're all around you. And so if you can't get them people that you know, then you probably just don't know how to share the message. Yeah. And that's okay, by the way. You got to find someone that can help share the message. And that's a little bit of what we try to do at Horizon Trust is, is, is because I know it works and I did it for 10 years before I started a trust company, I applied these principles to my business and now I go out and teach people that they too can use their retirement funds to either fund their own business or partner with others or syndicate with others. And, and it's not that hard to do. And so I just try to help people overcome that obstacle of fear or the obstacle of it's just new. My advisor hasn't told me about it and just treat— teach people so they then have at least the tools to make their own decisions on where they want to invest their retirement money.

Fantastic. So where did you start looking for these people? And you went to REAS, but how did you figure out, you know, REAS and other places were good places to go? Because there's a lot of people with 401s that are actively contributing. Um, there's a lot of companies that are matching or at least contributing as well where they can't move those. And I know one of the huge benefits and skills of your business is is releasing the capital from this, the rigid 401 and making it self-directed process. How did you determine where to look for these people initially? I mean, I know you went out on a mission, not to make that the reason or methodology, but was it knocking on every door you came across or was it, you know, looking into a particular demographic, different particular employment structure or role that you knew might be somebody that had a lack of knowledge and still a, a, um, a determination to have the best retirement that could be that crossover of, um, the ideal candidate or a candidate that would be a solid candidate to, to, to touch on?

Well, first I will just mention and reiterate what you said, uh, that, you know, people that have a current 401 with their current employer today, they most likely are not able to self-direct or move their monies into a self-directed company like ours at Horizon Trust. I'm talking about individuals that have old 401s from previous employers, which is almost half of America has changed or moved jobs in the last 5 to 7 years. So there's a ton of America that has an old 401 hanging out there that they're not even paying attention to. Those 401s you actually can self-direct, not ones that you're currently working at and making contributions to. Got it. And then also the IRAs that I explained, there's, you know, 100 million of those. It's actually like 98 million IRAs in the United States. So those were the ones I'm talking about. So, you know, how did I— you know, there was, there was a few creative ways, you know, marketing 20, 2 years ago is different than today. Yeah. The quick answer— and I can give you a couple or at least one long answer as far as what I did— but the quick answer is a little bit of what you did say. I didn't literally knock door to door, but man, I talked to everybody that I could about self-directing. I changed my message. And I think that that's probably the best example I can give you is when I first started and I was talking about real estate deals, you know, just think about this right now. Like if I were to go to you right now, say, Trystan, I got this deal, it's a real estate deal, I'm going to pay you 12%. Well, on your money, lend it to me or let's partner on it. I mean, how many times have you heard that? You've probably heard that 1,000 times. Everyone's— everyone's got a real estate deal. Everybody thinks they're a real estate expert. I found that out real quick. Like, you talk to your neighbor right now. I, I have flipped hundreds and hundreds of properties and huge commercial projects as well. And my neighbor next to me literally today has flipped probably 4 to 5 homes in his life. But do you know what my neighbor thinks? He thinks he's a real estate expert.

Yeah.

As he is. He has bought and sold homes. Yeah. So, so if you're in that boat or if you're listening to this and you're thinking, man, you know, my message is not— it's not sticking with people. I'm not able to raise dollars. It's probably because you need to change your message. My message was, I've got a deal, look at my deal. But why is my deal any better than yours, Tristan? It probably wasn't. And that's why I was failing. So I changed my message. So now when people ask what I did, even though I didn't even own a trust company, I said, I teach people how to unlock or how to get access to the retirement funds, invest with me in my real estate deals.

Perfect.

I didn't even talk about interest rates. You didn't talk about the deal.

Why?

Because there's deals everywhere. I started sharing a message that was unique and different that they hadn't heard of. And so, you know, it's like when you go into a room, if you've got nothing interesting to talk about, no one wants to talk to you.

Yeah.

And if you got the same deal as everyone else, which is the same fix and flip as everyone else, Well, how are you different? You got to— you got to make yourself different than everybody else. And so what I learned at a young age, and I did— obviously I'd learned some of these things from my mission, but then I learned a lot as well after that. I had like— people weren't paying attention to me, so I had to figure out what got attention. And that was self-directing. There was low-hanging fruit. People are already frustrated with the stock market. They don't get advice and/or You know, when's the last time your advisor calls you, say, hey, I got this great stock tip for you? They don't. They don't want the liability and they don't. The only time they call you is when they ask, you know, do you want to invest more money with them? Yeah, because they get a bigger fee. Yeah. So, so people are already innately discouraged by the stock market, frustrated with the stock market. So it was an easy conversation. So I changed my whole message from real estate to IRAs, and I didn't even own a trust company back then. And what happened is people were, were engaged and interested and, wow, I didn't know that. My advisor never knew that. Told me that I could move part of my money and invest in real estate. Sure, I'll invest with you in real estate. They didn't even ask me the interest rate.

Yeah.

So, so that's the conversation. Getting out and about, changing your message. And in today's world, it's easy to do with all the social media and all the boardrooms and masterminds and everything, all the places, clubs you can go to, you should be changing your message to something that intrigues and interests people. And I still believe— I'm sure I'm biased, but I still think since only 4% of Americans even self-direct, that there's a huge body of a huge audience that is still interested in this message. They just don't know that they can self-direct.

Yeah, I love that. I think that's an incredible way to put it because Everyone's asking about a particular deal and that puts the, like, the commission breath, the desperation that they need something right now, where you are talking about the bigger picture and an opportunity, which is nondescript as far as time, timeline, return. That's the thing that engages the aging people because it's not using scarcity mindset to try and get something from somebody else. It's really putting an opportunity in front of them to work with you as a more trusted person that's not just asking for something right away. Is developing that relationship and enabling the conversation if they choose to continue it. And they might say, well, no, no interest in that, and you haven't wasted your time, you know, spitting the numbers that you're going to give them on returns and the— all of the information.

Well, I would just refer, like, and I wouldn't— and I think that was an important part of my message, or that a learning curve that I had was I had to stop being, um, stop sharing and educating for selfish reasons. And look, when you're in your 20s, that's hard to do when you got a young family and kids. It's like, oh, I got to pay my bills. But as soon as I got over that and started sharing this message of self-directing, still before I even owned a trust company, I just was going out sharing that this is something out there that you can do. And if I— and I started doing it without trying to get anything back in return. And, and as I did that, more and more individuals started self-directing. And then by default, they'd come to me and say, hey, I did that thing you talked about. Do you have any deals that I can invest in? Without me actually even pitching a deal to them. So I just, I really changed my message and tried to give and educate and provide interest in the subject. And some people would go off and self-direct and invest in their own deals, which is fine. A lot of people thought they were going to do that, but then found out how hard it was to find a deal. So they originally didn't think they were going to either invest with me or somebody else, but eventually did invest with somebody else or with me, maybe.

I think the best situation there is where they do go and do it themselves. They do make a bit of money, but realize how hard it was to get the money. And then they think, let me be hands-off, Greg. Let me, let me just give it to you. I don't mind making a bit less, but I just don't want the hassle of picking the carpet and picking the curtains or whatever it is that they're— because a lot of these people get into it thinking they've got to choose everything instead of just following a budget, a formula that gives the most profit. I mean, you see a lot of these people that overpaid over the last 3 years for flips, their first, second, third project, and they might have exited with maybe 5 or 10 grand at the end of it, or maybe even made a loss because they just went full out on everything and didn't just think of creating the product that, you know, matched or slightly exceeded the market comparisons.

So, Yeah, I love that.

Yep. So, so, um, let's, let's talk a little bit about, um, obviously self-directed is your primary vehicle as far as helping other people. What have you done to diversify your wealth strategy for your legacy and, and managing yourself without going into sort of personal details?

Yeah, sure. Um, Look, I've learned a lot of lessons over the last 20-some years, and I, and I say I learned them because I feel like I've changed the way I do things based upon decisions I've made. And even though I have a— I'm a deal junkie as far as I like, I like different deals and opportunities, I really focus my energy in in the real estate segment. And when I say real estate, specifically lending and/or flipping commercial or residential deals, and that's— it's what I do. I don't diversify into much anything else, not because it's not good for you or me, but, but I'm a proponent of investing heavily in what you know and understand. Rather than diversifying into different market segments or industries that you're not as familiar with. And so do I do it once in a while? Yes. And those are the things that probably give me the most heartburn and have problems. But in general, I would say 90% of what I do for my own personal investing is lending and flipping in different commercial residential deals. And so that's I don't hold. I'm not a buy and hold guy. My son buys and holds and that's his model, which I love. You know, he's figuring out his model right now. But that's, that's what I do. And, and I will probably continue to do that to the day I die. I love real estate and I love what I can do. Fabulous.

So do you get involved with like whole life you know, using some of that to also sort of diversify your investment?

Yeah, yeah, I do. And I actually don't consider that too much of an investment because it's, you know, it's— I kind of think of that as my bank account or savings account. I don't think of it much as investing. But yes, I, you know, I definitely have a handful of policies and continue to do these whole life policies that have the the fixed guaranteed— I should say guaranteed, not fixed, but guaranteed interest rates that, you know, with solid A-rated companies. And that's where I'd rather bank and put my money than a lot of these, you know, Wells Fargo's of the world. And so I get a better return. I get obviously some death benefit. I can borrow against my policies and invest it in real estate or other things. But yes, that's kind of a parking place for my savings account money.

Yes. Fantastic. It's amazing how long it's been around and how, I mean, they say that the government doesn't like advertising on those kind of things because it's based on contract law, not tax law due to its seniority, I suppose. But yeah, I think it's one of those incredible vehicles. You know, it's not going to be the only investment vehicle to invest from, I suppose, rather invest in. You're investing from that, like you said, with that being the bank.

But that's right.

So let's, let's talk about the comeback. You mentioned that you lost it all and you are where you are now. I think this is one of the things that can inspire somebody in their middle age like myself. You know, what happens when you do lose it all? Because there is a risk with everything. It's a, you know, I only go to Vegas to gamble on myself, to conferences and personal growth. I don't put my money into those things. But you know what happens, I think, you know, myself included for a long time during life, is, is the fear of failure. Well, if I fail, then I'm going to look bad. And if that's the worst thing that can happen, what are the upsides of the failure? And where, where did you elevate yourself more quickly, both, you know, emotionally, spiritually, and, and financially from that, that event or series of events?

Well, look, the 2009— well, 2007, I was all in. I kept investing my profits and kept building and borrowing. And so in 2008 hit and the market started plummeting. Excuse me. Everything dropped at least 30, if not 50 or 60%. And I was mostly invested in Nevada. And so I went on paper, you know, I was probably worth $10 million on paper as a 32-year-old. And on paper, right? And I had some cash in my account, but a lot of it was in real estate to having a negative $22 million swing. Yeah. Why negative $22 million? Why? I lost almost everything. Everything was upside down. Couldn't make the mortgage payments. And I had bank loans of $22 million on some pretty substantial big apartment complexes and dirt, etc., that we were building. Yeah. So all the equity was gone. And I, I had banks now knocking on my door my partners filed bankruptcy and I was the last one standing. And I had a decision to make. One, if I was going to file bankruptcy. And number two, I had 3 kids at home and a 4th on the way and a wife. And I just felt like I had to figure it out. So I was down and out for a few days, days like 3 or 4 days. And, and I get— I think that's part of my story is I had no other option. And I think that's part of when people have some of their best successes is when their back's up against the wall. I was like, well, look, I got 3 kids, one on the way. I'm at negative $22 million. I got to effing figure this out. If I knew what I was doing before, then I need to really do it now. And, and so it always comes back to relationships, right? So I went to a couple relationships that had some success the last 10 years. They were in a similar place. We got together and, and literally this all happened within a week of everything coming to a closure and fall to me. And to me, I'm just, I've got no other option about except for succeed. I mean, I'm going to succeed, I'm going to push through. And that half of it was mind frame. I would say where my mind was, and then the other part of it, you know, actually it's probably in thirds. It's your mind, your work ethic, and your relationships. And those three things are, in my mind, the most important pillars. And so I had to get my mind straight and then I had to work. And then there's no easy way out. I had to work my ass off. Yeah. And face banks and sit with banking panels and tell them why I couldn't pay back the $22 million and negotiate that debt, not file bankruptcy, build, you know, go and put together a new business contract. With some new partners to go start a new business, to go make money. I did all that and just hustled. And, and I think that's a part that a lot of the world takes for granted. I see all these, you know, do some videos or some social media or they do, you know, go to a class or a mastermind. That's just part of it. And that's just like 5% of it or 10% of it. You got to do all your other work. So that's what I did. I mean, I structured— I actually started buying with another two partners. We bought homes at the footsteps as they were being foreclosed on. Yeah. And we bought and sold them as we bought them. We were just within 90 days selling them, making money. We probably bought about 200 homes in an 18-month period of time, helped pay the bills, start building up things, start building the company. So I started Horizon Trust Company then. Yeah. And, and and the Horizon Trust Company didn't make money for 5 years, but I knew what it could do. And so I just, I was building a business that was going to be around for a long time. So, you know, that's the Cliff Notes of what happened. Emotion, heartstring, hard work, back to the basics, back to singles and doubles, not being overaggressive, which got me in this $22 million deficit. Of saying, oh, if you can do homes, Greg, you can do apartment complexes. You know, you don't stay in your lane. Do what works. Just do it over and over and over again. And so that's what I learned. And I got back to the basics and found success.

That's, that's lovely to hear. I mean, I lent some money to somebody last year and they, the hard money company foreclosed on, on the property because they wouldn't drop the price a year ago to sell it at a price that was going to work. They stopped making payments in October, so they incurred the penalty interest rate. So I know from the other side of things, but, you know, unfortunately the guy decided to file bankruptcy and sold, you know, he'd sold his house a year and a half before. So there was nothing that I could put a lien against to allow him to, you know, work it off in the future. You know what I mean? So, yep. I really admire, I think success in many ways is not stopping. Taking the time to feel the pain and feel your way through to what is the next step and taking that on. That is success in itself. And then you're just raising the level of successes as you move through and, and take it to the next, the next high, basically. So I think that's incredible. So I would say, you know, the last kind of section of the show, maybe from, from this, is How did that impact you? Obviously they were probably quite young at that time when that was going on.

They still— yeah, 32 years old when that happened.

And how old are your kids at that time?

You had one on the way, but, um, I had a 9 and 7 and maybe an 8, 6, and 3, and one on the way. Yeah.

So I'm sure they got some sort of memory, or the, the older ones probably have some sort of memory of a drastic life change in a short period of time. How did that— how did you kind of convey that to them? But more so, how does that impact your raising of them through your expression of struggle and, and times that were different from the earlier success, and how that's impacted you bringing their mind around to financial literacy, understanding life and the risks, but also the rewards of these, you know, these experiences that we have in life?

Well, that's a good question. I think my answer might surprise you a little bit. Maybe not, but there's two parts of the answer. Yeah, the first part of the answer is something I regret today, which is my family never knew what we went through. I did not want the stress to be put upon my wife at the time and children. I wanted them to continue to live the lifestyle they had. And so I bore the brunt of that and shared very, very, very little. With my wife at the time. And, and I think that was also one of the things I've learned about relationships, about marriages, is the importance of communication. Now, you know, that I'm not— I'm now remarried, but it wasn't because of this, by the way. But this was one of those examples that could have made our relationship stronger, is working together through what I was feeling and the heaviness and the hardship, and I took it all on my own. And so, so they— I would say they didn't learn anything at that time of what was going on. That being said, I don't regret what the kids didn't learn then. I only regret that I didn't share with my, my, my spouse at the time. So that would be that part of it. But what I will share with you is I have made it very apparent in the last 7 or 8 years. You know, my oldest is 21. So, you know, 5 years after that, I've, I've communicated and shared very, you know, in-depth of my experiences where we're at, you know, appreciation of where we have. And I believe most importantly, my kids have been able to see me work hard. And explain and teach them about working hard. And, and, and so because of my experience, I parent differently because of what I went through. I parent differently and I try to teach them and they're going to go through their own stuff and I let them know that and it's okay. And so I've shared with them since and they've seen it and feel it and we talk about it. You know, when we get on, you know, do some of these special trips, some of these places in the world, we talk about it. You know, when you get on an Emirates flight, fly in business class as a family, I say, look, let me tell you what this— what this cost.

Yeah.

Because— because you won't have this if you don't work hard. And this is— and there's— so I try to share those things. But I think the most important thing you can do, I feel like my kids have really learned is, is spending time— quantity, not quality— which is different than what everyone says, by the way. Um, of course we have quality time, but it's all about quantity with your children. They see what you do, how hard you work, what you do, how you serve others, how you give to others. When your kids see you serving and helping others, I think is one of the most important lessons that they can learn, because it instills in them what they should be doing is giving and her helping and serving others, and being grateful for what you have. And so still have some work to do. But I'd say I'm super blessed with where my kids are today. And it's not just me, it's a village. It's my— it's their kids' mother, who's incredible. It's their kids' mother's husband. It's, it's my better half, Jessica. It's, it's all of us. And, and I think taking the time to reflect and ask questions, and so they can understand what's happening and why they have certain things, and have a high expectation for them, um, is what makes them, um, great kids today. So a little bit different angle than maybe you're expecting, but that's, that's what I'd say how it got us where we are today.

I, I can kind of relate to that. I went through a divorce in 2010, and, and I think I, I hit a lot of the struggle emotionally, financially, that, you know, during the roller coaster and I look back in a similar light. I think that there was, there was some benefit to— I don't regret anything because I believe that we're perfectly where we need to be, and I've gained a gift from realizing that that might have been a benefit to them. But we are where we are, and, and it's just taking on with the growth that we gain through relationships, experience, and, and being able to relate to that differently. But I certainly think that kids knowing the value of things And knowing that they're gonna do what we show them, not necessarily what we tell them, you know, align with the, the amount of time can be very important because they more— the more they become familiar with you and your work ethic and what's involved, the more they're going to take that on and, and align with that, rather than use short space of time telling them to do something and they don't see the relationship and the fruition of what that hard work means. 100%. So what do you have coming up as far as, you know, what's your vision of the next sort of 12 to 24 months as far as we're in an interesting real estate market, interesting investing market? Where are you pivoting or adjusting the sail to guide the boat, you know, towards your horizon?

No pun intended, but It's that, look, I, I feel like whenever there's uncertainty or there's market volatility, there's opportunity. And we definitely have that right now. We have an election coming up which is going to force rates to come down because everyone wants to say the market's going in the right direction. So you have the stock market, right? It hit its all-time high yesterday, but the market changes. So the volatility in the stock market, the elections coming up, the interest rates being kind of so high, there's just opportunity. And so what that's, that's, you know, without getting too deep into it, I am eager and excited about what's to come in the next 12 to 24 months. I feel like if deals right now can pencil out these high interest rates, they're going to be phenomenal. If you can buy them now and refinance them in a couple of years. So I'm a buyer. If there's a good opportunity that can pencil with some financing, I buy. And, and, and if you can sell for a profit, great. If you got to hold on to it for a little bit, which I think you might have to right now for rates to kind of settle down a little bit and then sell and get these higher cap rates and/or exits. That's the model. And I think there's just a huge opportunity. So I'm like, real estate's historically, as has always been, the industry that creates the most millionaires and success stories. So I see this next kind of cycle doing the same thing.

Yeah. Are you generally a GP or are you generally a debt partner on these sort of multifamily type arrangements? I know you flip residential and you know, obviously do value add for commercial. Is that something you are looking to get into with your clients' funds potentially? Or do you have a fund created by your clients that, you know, they want to direct their self-directed and you create a fund of funds to invest in other projects? How does that work?

Yeah, no, so I've really focused and moved over to just Horizon Trust Company, my my focus. I don't solicit and/or raise dollars or have a fund that raises money. I have people, you know, that interview and stuff that have their own funds, do their own investments, etc. So I, but me personally, I invest in other people's funds. Sometimes I'm a general partner, sometimes I'm a debt, you know, I do debt and lend. I don't do a, it's, you know, it's 3 to 5 projects a year. It's not a huge amount and I'm maybe one of several investors on a deal. That's kind of been, you know, my model and to, you know, eliminate some of the work. So yeah, that's, that's, that's how I structure it. But no, I don't, I don't do— there's so many deals out there and lots of people are raising money for different projects. There's plenty of things people can find. Fabulous.

So How can people work with your Horizon Trust? I think I've got a link from your colleague yesterday that I'll share in the bio and at the end here so that people can reach out to Horizon. How would people best bring you value as far as I'm guessing clients, people that might want to invest with you? You're not raising capital necessarily from others, but how would you, you know, what would you like to share?

Well, look, I appreciate it. For me, it's my message of self-directing. I, I see what it can do and helps so many, literally thousands of individuals at our company and our clients of ours. And so, you know, I don't have investments that people can invest in with me, but I will say, you know, if people want to reach out to me or send me an email, you know, find me at greg@horizontrust.com. That's my email. I'm easy to get a hold of. I respond to everybody or I have my team respond if it's certain things I can't answer. But follow me on social media, email me, you know, set an appointment with my team if you're, if you're in that boat. My mission is to help individuals open up self-directed IRA accounts. If you have an old 401 with previous employer, you're sick of it, or an old IRA, you can move a portion of or all of it into trust, an account with us at Horizon Trust and start investing in what you know and understand, what you're passionate about, what you understand. Like, that's, that's my, that's my mission. That is my vision. And I, and I want to teach as many people how to do it. And then, you know, not only share with them how to do it, but get— walk them through the process and get them to do it so they can start having their own successes. And so that's it. Find me, talk to me, email me, work with our company, invest in, you know, in individuals like yourself, Trystan Trenberth, and then invest in people that you know and understand. And that's my message.

So here's one for the parents in the room. How young can they start a self-directed IRA for somebody?

They can start young once they have income. Doesn't have to be 16 or 18, it can be younger. If they have income, then they can start contributing to a Roth or a traditional IRA. So if they're set up on payroll and they have income, absolutely.

That's not a problem. Fantastic. So that's a message for all of you entrepreneurs out there that may be putting your kids on payroll for helping with sales and marketing, being on brochures and models, that kind of thing, doing work around the office. This would be a great, great way for you to get them starting their compounding very early. You know, adding to the, adding to the self-directed and then getting that money invested. And you guys presumably as an intermediary, I know you've helped some of my lenders in the past. What's the process and how's that different if it's a minor child that's on payroll, has some investments? Can the parent do that on their behalf or is there some other oversight that needs to be in place?

Yeah, no, parents can do it with them or, or on their behalf. But yeah, that's not an issue. So I mean, if you've got a child that, you know, that's earning income that wants to make a contribution to a Roth or traditional, contact us, we'll kind of walk you through it, how it works, how much you can put in, what the limitations are based upon how much, you know, money they've been paid. And then from there, you know, we've got people that will have their kids, their wife and themselves, they all have these Roth IRAs, let's say $5,000 each, let's say. And so there's 4 accounts and each has 5, it's $20,000, can invest and lend or partner in a deal or wholesale and flip it. And those proceeds all go pro rata back to the kids' and parents' accounts. And so, you know, there's a lot of different options. So if you're thinking about doing this, you know, contact us, we'll walk you through it and see how it applies to you or your children.

Sounds like a great way for a family to work together on an investment strategy that educates the young whilst, you know, creating legacy wealth for future generations as well.

So for sure.

Yeah, perfect. Is there anything else you'd like to share? Events or, you know, anything you got coming up that you'd like people to know about, Greg, before, before we wrap up?

No, I mean, we always have something usually every month coming up, but, uh, I don't— it's not the top of my mind right now. I just say, look, just follow me on social media, you know, just Greg Hurleen. Um, you know, that's where I kind of put some of my information. And, uh, contact us if you have any questions. We just, you know, we look forward to helping, educating, and giving as much as we can.

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Greg. It was an insightful conversation. I mean, I've heard some of the story, but I think the conversations we have on here are just very different from what most podcasts cover. And I think there are definitely some gifts in here that some, some people will pick up and it can maybe change the trajectory of their life. Just having, you know, that one degree change, or maybe it's a, you know, 45-degree change for them. So Thank you for joining us. Thank you for being the guy you are and supporting so many people in changing their future lives. So I appreciate you, Greg. Thank you everybody for watching. We'll see you on the next edition of Birth to Net Worth. Have a great day.

Thanks, Tristan.