Birth to Net Worth with Jeffrey Donis - Episode 9

Welcome to Birth to Net Worth with me, your host, Trystan Trenberth. On this episode, we're joined by young entrepreneur in the multifamily space, gentleman named Jeffrey Donnis. Hi, welcome to Birth to Net Worth. This, I believe, is episode 8. We've gone— come so far in the last few months. We've had some amazing people on, and we're not stopping there. We've got an amazing young lad here who's— who I met through a community about 2 and a half years ago briefly, and, uh, we've had fleeting contact over the last 2 and a half years, but part of a wonderful family, a couple of brothers that are all working together in the real estate world. And let me introduce you to Jeffrey Donnis. Jeffrey, welcome to Birth to Net Worth. Thank you for joining us today.

Yeah, thanks for having me, Trystan. As you mentioned, we met a while ago and we've been on and off in regards to our communication, but I never forgot about you for sure. Always seeing what you're up to and I'm happy to be here. I definitely appreciate you giving me the opportunity to speak with your audience.

Well, thank you so much. So give us a little bit of your background, Jeffrey. Tell me about where you live, where you've maybe moved around the country a little bit and a bit of background. To you and your family.

For sure, for sure. So, uh, I, like you said, my name is Jeffrey Donis. I work with my two brothers. Um, I have an older brother and a twin brother. I'm 20 years old. I was born in Queens, New York, and my mom is a single— she grew up as— I grew up with a single mother. She's from Guatemala, so that's my background. I grew up speaking Spanish, moved to Durham, North Carolina, which is where I still live today. When I was about 2 years old. So pretty much been here my, my entire life. Um, planning on moving sometime soon, but we'll see, uh, eventually. In regards to how I got in here today, my brothers and I were all in college 3 years ago when we came across lots of different things, but specific— specifically, if no one's— you can see this, I have a book behind me called Rich Dad Poor Dad. I'm sure a lot of you have heard of it. That was one of the first books that we read And while we were reading that book and reading other books like Think and Grow Rich, we started watching YouTube videos about wholesaling real estate. So as we just started going down that rabbit hole, started listening to podcasts like BiggerPockets, Wholesale Hotline, and found ourselves with other types of thought leaders in the space. But that's really what got the ball rolling and our minds started moving and we started getting very interested in real estate. And we didn't start taking action until we went to Guatemala, which is where my mom is from, for the first time in December of 2020 going into 2021. That was when we first went to Guatemala and we saw firsthand where my mom grew up. We met our aunts and uncles and cousins for the first time and realized how much of an opportunity we have here and how we were taking all of this for granted in regards to our upbringing in the United States because a lot of people that come from similar backgrounds as myself, it being low income and, you know, single mother, it seems like we're told this narrative and almost convinced of it ourselves that we have this sort of— it's easy to have these limiting beliefs and to think that you really have a reason and excuse not to be able to shoot for the stars and go and do crazy things. And it's really easy to get sold on that because that's what a lot of people like I've come across And regardless of that, we ended up realizing that we have an opportunity that no one else in our family had because my mom was one of the only one of her siblings to come here. So eventually came back and not to make a long story— to make a long story short, ended up getting back to the United States, started learning a little bit more, but we kind of cut that paralysis analysis out, started taking action, and eventually landed our first deal.

That's amazing. What was your first deal?

Yeah, it was a wholesale deal. Um, are you asking in regards to the amount?

Not the amount, but just what was the background? What was the action that you took that led you to find that opportunity?

For sure. So my brother, he was the one that was pulling lists of data. It's wholesaling, right? So you have to pull the list of data, you have to skip trace it, and we were cold calling for about 6 months while we were in school. At first, and then COVID-19 happened. And for a lot of people, it was obviously an unfortunate event, and for us it was somewhat of a blessing in disguise because that brought us all back home. Since at our universities, we were all at different schools here in North Carolina, we weren't allowed to stay in the dorm rooms any longer because of the pandemic. So they sent us all home, and now we were just all inside and had no other excuse other than to cold call all day. So we were calling from 9 to 8 PM Eventually, just following up with people, learning about the business while we were cold calling, actually. We were watching these videos. And eventually, we had a lady that ended up calling us back. We originally gave her an offer about 2 weeks before that at a certain price. I don't really remember the numbers exactly, but it was lower than what she wanted. So she told us she was just going to end up renting it out. We were like, "That's no problem. Let us know if you change your mind." 2 weeks later, after driving back from another property that we walked, she ended up giving us a call and said, "If you're still able to do that price, we can move forward." We ended up saying, "Yes, that price is still on the table." We sent the agreement. Eventually, this was the first deal, so kind of just learning and failing forward. So eventually we just made a post on a few Facebook groups about the deal and had a lot of interest since it was in a really hot market and it was a really good price that we just didn't know. We could have made more than what we made, but ended up getting it closed with one of the few buyers. There was a lot of buyers that submitted offers, had a deadline. At the end of the deadline, we accepted the highest and best. And then to end the story, ended up closing on that deal. It was the first one. We were in about $7,000 of credit card debt at that time. So it came at the right time, but we took a leap of faith and it paid off.

Perfect. So receiving a check like that versus being raised by a single mother, I mean, I'm sure there wasn't a lot of extra sitting around in that situation. Yeah. How much of a change from looking back even, I don't know, maybe it was 10 years ago, to that moment when you got that check with that number on it? Is that the first time you'd seen that amount of money on a piece of paper?

Yeah, no, I mean, like 2 weeks before that, we were going back to my mom to get access to our savings account because she has access, she had access to it and we needed it to fund the business because we hadn't made any money and we were running out of money. So we needed the money that she had. And she was like, at first she was very reluctant to give it to us. She didn't want to give it to us. And she said, this is the last time because you guys aren't making any money and you guys are just wasting your time. And we were like, okay. It was hard to believe her, but then we were like, you know what, like all these podcasts, we hear all these success stories, it's going to happen. So for sure, I mean, we were asking her for like $500, and to us that was a lot, but there's the book called The Millionaire Mindset. And in the book, that was one of the first books I listened to as well as an audio version. And it talks about the financial thermostat, which we touched on before the call in regards to us. And now, now it's like very relevant and very obvious to me in the way I think now. I think in big numbers because we're buying multimillion-dollar apartment complexes. But even back then, I started looking at my marketing budget and I was making thousands of dollars and I was spending thousands of dollars on marketing. And 2 years before that, I couldn't even make $1,000 in a summer, you know what I mean? Or in a year. Like I was making no money. Growing up, my mom, single mother, we was always paycheck to paycheck. And that's really why we got into the business was to retire her. So when we first got that check, what it showed me was I didn't have to go the traditional route, one. I didn't have to go to school and get a degree to make money. And at the end of the day, personally, that was why I was in school. I was in school to get a job. And I realized once I got that check that I didn't need to do that. And in fact, I can make a lot more money and build the life that I want to build for myself and for my family without actually having to go through all of that. So that's really what it proved to me. And then I showed it to my mom And I just wanted— it kind of like, it felt really good to finally show her something that, you know, it pays off and it's real. And we obviously, we tied to organizations that we care about, but we also help my mom out. The reason, like I said, to get in is to retire her. So there's no better feeling than finally being able to at least start on that journey.

And what was her response to seeing that result?

She just said, let's— we need— yeah. You know, that first I met her and she like, she's an interesting lady and she's amazing, but she's not the kind of person to like always ever say, "I'm proud of you." She'll say, she'll just show it. Her love language is like doing actions. So I could just tell she was really happy. And she, the one thing that I will say is she understood that we wanted to leave school after that. So during that transition, she was still a little bit reluctant and she was happy that we made money, but she wasn't necessarily happy that we were leaving school. Um, so she was still like really upset during that time, I'll be honest. But eventually she's happy now, I definitely can see. And hopefully she's proud.

Oh, it makes me so happy hearing that story because, you know, mum's going to be proud, they're going to be happy. And however they show it, it's just amazing to be able to witness something that you've caused, you know, in that way. So I think that was a lovely introduction. So growing up, obviously, you know, maybe some scarcity and casting aspersions here, but, you know, single mum, I'm sure she wasn't in a million-dollar job, you know, bringing home everything as you mentioned. But how was life growing up as far as attitudes to money? Because going to high school, yeah, we see different kids with different parents in different financial positions. Some kids are born with this, you know, the proverbial silver spoon in their mouth, so they're used to having money. Again, that thermostat is set here. And for those of you not, not familiar what we're talking about, um, there's a book by a guy called T. Harv Eker called Secrets of a Millionaire Mind, and he talks about how, how when we're raised, we're used to having a certain amount of money around us based on what we've experienced and what we've been exposed to. But then when we earn more money, we often— as a human habit is, if we earn more, we can spend more. So we're actually spending more but we're holding less. And Robert Kiyosaki's book behind you says It's all about— it's not how much you earn, it's how much you keep. And that's where resetting your financial thermostat is, to be able to up each level and know that you can either maintain your cost of living or at least compress it to a degree that when you grow your income, that your expenses don't increase at a proportional level, that you're growing faster than your, your costs are. So I guess rounding back to where I was going is Yeah, from the variety of people and kids around you, probably stayed at, you know, your friends' houses after school for a period of time, witnessed different things going on. Yeah. Were there any feelings in you of what you saw and witnessed in other kids of, oh, I haven't got much, or they've got more than me? And I'm not saying that's— you're a selfish person, but as a kid, you're not— you're not making it negative, it's just an observation in your mind. You might see different things. Tell me about some of the things you noticed.

Oh, for sure, for sure. So I grew up playing soccer, and I'll tell you one story that stands out that I have never shared on a podcast before. So I was, uh, it was probably like, I was probably like 10 years old, and, um, I used to watch WWE growing up, which is like the wrestling. Um, it's not even real, it's professional, but they, you know, I think it's fake anyways. Uh, I would, I was really like a big fan, and I wanted this belt, and I would tell my mom that I wanted one. And we were in, I don't know exactly what store it was, it was probably Walmart. And we were walking and there was two belts. One of them was like $20, the other one was like $35. And for her, she was like, she didn't make it obvious to me, but I could now looking back, I kind of get this guilt. And this is where one of the many burning desires that I have stems from this. And I would say it's an insecurity. She wanted me to get the cheaper one, but I really wanted the more expensive one. And to me it was just, I didn't look at the price. It was more so what I wanted. Um, and eventually she did. She, she bought it, but she hugged me and said— and we were going through something with our family at the time, but, uh, we were in a tight financial crunch at the time— and she still bought me the thing, but she hugged me and said, um, you know, I won't— I don't know if I'll always be able to buy you this, this toy. I, I was happy that I got it, but looking back, I always feel guilty for that. Now, to go into my soccer, I grew up playing soccer, and I'd always have to get financial aid to play for every team that I played for. We'd have to apply, and my mom, she was from Guatemala, like I said, so Spanish was her first language, not English. So I would be the one actually signing up when I turned like 10. I was booking hotels, I was booking my own, like, all the information. And I'm sure a lot of the kids, some kids might do that themselves, but typically the parents do that. And I was seeing, I was one swiping the card And she would let me know, "This is getting— this is very expensive." Like, I don't know, she'd really make me feel guilty. I don't think she did it on purpose, but I would hate like the idea, and I would hate the day that I had to go and swipe the card. Because we were traveling with the travel team, we were playing at a high level, and you'd go to like all these different states in our region. And obviously, you know, you're going to stay in a hotel or somewhere because you don't want to— that's what my mom was willing to do. She would work really hard for it, but she would definitely let me know that it's expensive. And I never will forget. And I say all of that with a grain of salt. In my opinion, I have heard this on multiple podcasts. I think growing up in poverty, quote unquote, in poverty, from my perspective, it was a privilege and was the best thing that happened to me. Because one, I understand now, looking back, I know where I'm going to end up in a few years. And, you know, I want to help people do that as well. But at least I know I can remember when I didn't have it. And I think I'll be a lot more grateful for having it now. Um, also I have that burning desire. I have that chip on my shoulder that I don't think a lot of people— I'm blessed to have that burning desire because I have something to work for. And I think it's so easy, especially if you're young, to look at it as a negative. It's almost like the default. Um, and growing up, I was like— to go into my childhood, I mean, I would hang out with all of my friends that played soccer. A lot of them did have money, their parents. One thing is that they were always very nice. The parents had an abundance mindset when it came to those things, like paying for things and things like that. And I would— my mom would give me money all the time, but I'm sure the parents could tell, like, you know, it's not, it's not too difficult to put two and two together, and they would be more than happy to help with things without me having to. I would try to pay, they just wouldn't let me. So I grew up around really nice people, and they tended to be wealthy just based on, like, the size of their house, right? So you can kind of just tell. Yeah. But In regards to like the insecurity, I mean, I always, I always could like feel like it was a little weird. My mom wasn't always around me. I was typically alone at these tournaments when I'd go and travel by myself. Everyone else had their like both their parents and the whole family, and it seemed like they didn't necessarily have the financial burden that I subconsciously knew I had. Yeah. And growing up, like I said, I really didn't— it didn't bother me that much, but I always had that insecurity. And then in high school, similar story, my friends would go on trips and I would know I couldn't go. And that burning desire of like, I know I don't want my life to be like this forever. Like, this just can't be it. And then you start reading these books and you realize that, you know, it does not have to be like that and you are in control. And I started to, okay. And now I'm blessed and I'm still at the point where I haven't retired my mom, but I'm very grateful for the upbringing because without the adversity, I know I wouldn't be who I am today. I know it wouldn't, it wouldn't be as fruitful either. I don't know if you disagree, but I think it'll taste much better. All right, I'm not saying that like the journey is— it's all about the journey, but I know it'll mean more to me than if I already had it.

I, I think your perspective is amazing because I've heard the, the analogy of the two brothers. The father was an alcoholic and, you know, one was in jail, the other one was a multi-millionaire. They're both, both their excuse for their path was I am this way because of my dad being an alcoholic. You know, one chose that he was going to rise above and the other one just surrendered to, you know, an inevitable future for not taking that, you know, that, that choice. And, and even up to a few years ago, this concept of controlling your thoughts— well, choose what thoughts you have— that was an alien concept to me. It was like, well, I can't change the drunk monkey in my head, you know what I mean? That's just telling me what it wants to tell me. And that's, that, that is what is. But then when you start doing more— I mean, I've kind of been doing personal growth on and off since about 2007, and, and I've— there are some challenging times, but those are the best times because those are the biggest parts of the resistance you need to break through, to, you know, have the breakdown to have the breakthrough. And, and from what you're saying is you, you very much had the clear perspective and at least the awareness that there's a different perspective than just insecurity, but there's obviously a positive to it as well, where you've taken this from, you know, even before receiving that wholesale check, that there's something better on the other side of it, and there's a, there's a benefit for me to experience this. As they say, life is a, life is a series of, of well-managed failures. And whether that's a failure of yourself or failure and others around you, that you gain from those experiences. And that's what builds us as people. It's a, it's a series of experiences that build our future experience, and how we deal with those and how we surmise those and how we, we take those on is, is absolutely down to us.

100%. And I'm grateful that my mom didn't hide the fact that we just— because obviously, like, um, some people would say it wasn't ideal, but I think it being real and actually the pain, I think that's where the growth comes in, that's where the lessons are learned. Uh, and also, I, I, I just like simply put, I think me growing up in the poverty that I grew up in, which Like I said, it's all subjective. Like my family in Guatemala, nothing the same in regards to like the poverty they live in is very different than mine. And I'm blessed, that's what I'm saying. So like, yeah, still it's subjective. And I think everyone's going to have their adversity. Even if you do grow up in like a, uh, with a wealthy family, you're still going to have your own problems. Um, but at the end of the day, I think it's all based on like what you can take from it, which I think is the great thing. And like I said, for me, I'm very grateful that my problems were my problems. Because now I want to— I hope to have learned from them. Always looking to learn more, but it definitely gives you that, that different edge, and I don't think a lot of people maybe don't grow up with it.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I, I just— I mean, I think I'm guilty of it myself, and, and it's not a criticism myself, but an observation, because whatever's happened has happened. But to not let your kids see struggle is, is a detriment to them because they don't know that if they think everything's perfect, it's like looking at Facebook and Instagram. If they just see perfect lives all the time and there's something wrong with theirs, then there's something wrong with them. But if we don't see that, if we don't show our kids that there's financial struggles from time to time, or emotional struggles and all these other things, we don't give them permission to experience it and overcome it. And we don't show that we overcome those things. I think that's terribly damaging to kids looking back, that that they're not going to understand that either. Even though something's not right, there's nothing wrong either, because there's, there's an opportunity the other side of it, or it's just an opportunity for us to transform and transcend something, you know.

100%. And you touched on it with like the, the problems. I think like a problem is a good thing. If you don't have any problems, one, I think you're not growing, uh, but two, that's where the— the obstacle is the way. Ryan Hardy, I think, wrote a book called The Obstacle Is the Way, if I'm remembering correctly. But literally, if you see the problem, that's where you should move towards, right? The discomfort is where the growth will happen. So a lot of people— and it's not like a— I think it's natural for us to want to do that. Like, my mom would want to protect us from that. But at the end of the day, there's certain things that my mom just couldn't hide from us. Like, it was just too obvious, you know? And something that she just never even found out, like what I'd experienced at school and things like that. I wouldn't come back home and tell her. Um, my brothers and I, we would like talk about it, but definitely grateful to have gone, gone through it. And I think at the end of the day, it's a mindset thing. So eventually, um, you were able to pull yourself out of whatever situation you're in. Just think it comes down to the people you meet and the books you read, and I think everything else will fall into place.

Yeah, absolutely. So, um, let's touch on a slightly different topic. So yeah, As far as financial literacy, obviously you just described the experience of relationship to money and experiences around money. Were you taught, or were you seeing your friends were taught to balance checkbooks or do the basics of understanding what income, you know, P&L was basically effectively? Is that something you were aware of when you were growing up, or is that something you've kind of discovered since going to college, leaving home? Because I, I was never taught that specific thing. And at school there was no financial education. It was, oh, here's— we've got an on-site temporary bank that's open between 11:30 and 12:00, staffed by students, and they go and walk down to town with a bag of money and deposit in the bank. That was, that was as close as we got. What did you experience through your journey?

Yeah, I think there's another topic that I would like to know why they don't teach us about that in school. I have my own theory, but yeah, yeah, but no, I didn't.

I was very— conspiratorial, but yeah, I think that's really why.

I don't know if it's even a conspiracy, but no, definitely. I wasn't taught anything about financial education or P&Ls or bank statements or anything, or profit and loss statements or anything like that. I didn't actually look at one until I was reading Rich Dad Poor Dad and it was on— I don't know what page it was, but I read a lot of his books. Recently too, there's a lot of new books that I'm going through and I'm realizing that that's a big problem to me, that they don't talk about that, but yet they're willing to have you go into debt for the only thing that— the degrees, more degrees are being given out each and every year, yet the value is going down, which doesn't make any sense to me. You know what I mean? In regards to why they don't teach you that in school, I'm not really sure. I think it's possibly because the people teaching it also aren't perhaps taught that either. So how are they expected to teach it? But I think the real problem stems from why they're not teaching it to them either. So it goes back to the curriculum. My mom, not to like throw any negativity towards her, but she wasn't taught that. She didn't actually even graduate from middle school because she grew up in Guatemala and they have to pay when she grew up going there. So she came here when she was very young. She cleans houses. That's what she does for a living. And that's why we want to retire her. But obviously you don't, I mean, she is able to get her own balance sheet and understand how to pay the bills and buy ourselves food and things like that that we need. But in regards to like building her investment portfolio to be able to produce passive income or things like that, no one was going to teach her that either. So really what taught my brothers and I was wholesaling. That's what the gateway was. That led us to Rich Dad Poor Dad, which led us to BiggerPockets. Which led us to all these other types of thought leaders in the financial space and investment space and really just teaching us ourselves, eventually finding different teachers outside of the traditional system. And they are, they are now our new teachers that we look up to. And that's why I left school, was because I realized they weren't teaching me anything that I thought I didn't know. Not to say that I couldn't have learned things that would have been applicable, but I knew that I think personally, I know what I want to learn and I'm always looking to learn more. But at that time I understood that I don't necessarily need to go this route to be a lifelong learner. I'm not going to just stop learning because I leave school. I just now know what I'm interested in and it's not what I'm learning here. I know if I like join, I go to at least 5 to 6 real estate seminars a year and they'll talk about all of these things that I'm actually using in my business to grow my business, to grow my network, things like that. I think there's intentional too with them leaving it out of school. Obviously we need people to go into the bureaucracy and to go into the workforce and do different things like that. But I think there's no way that they leave it out without an intention. I think the people that are doing that, I mean, I don't know what you think, Trystan, but I think it's such an important thing to leave out. And all the things that you're spending so much money to learn, why is financial literacy not one of them?

Yeah, I, I find it ironic that it seems that educational debt or student debt is the only unforgivable debt, right? Yet that's the foundation of the country, is the education and kids getting degrees and getting educated. Yet that's the only thing they won't forgive. They won't forgive it for doctors or nurses or teachers. And I'm not saying from a political standpoint, but if there's a need in the society for a particular skill why not give an opportunity for people to go into that profession, you know, work in that for 5 years and then, you know, get credited back for the— for what they've spent on the education and encourage people to go in those directions. But certainly not have a debt that they can't be forgiven from in the situation that, you know, again, not to get political, but it's just ironic there's one thing that isn't forgivable and that's that. But there's many other things that are forgivable that maybe shouldn't necessarily be forgivable where people are making decisions, you know, in a sound mind, yet they, they can get away with those things. But I, I certainly think that the lack of financial education is, is not unhelpful towards the government, um, making more interest, making more tax, and causing more money to be created through debt. And that's consumer debt by people misusing money, and that just generates more and more interest, which is money out of thin air, which devalues the dollar, causes inflation. Obviously we're seeing a bit more in a different way right here, in a major amount. But having that lack of understanding is definitely one of the helpful things for, you know, whether we call it a New World Order or otherwise, being more controlled in the situation that's going on, if that's your way of thinking.

Yeah, and I mean, I guess I don't know if this is political, but they're also— there's definitely an, uh, like most people, it's almost like, uh, groupthink. In all these schools, there are a lot of the— I personally was like going to high school and it seemed like there was this movement. Now we don't have to like speak about the specific movement, but everyone starts to think the same as well. So that's why another reason why I think they actually do want people to go to school and they incentivize it by easily giving you this money. Like I got like $5,000, I got a lot of money to go to school. And yeah, my grades are pretty good, but it's not like I can use that money for anything else other than go to school. When the return on investment, I don't even know if it's there anymore, right? Especially not what it used to be. So, right, um, yeah, there's definitely some questionable things about it.

But yeah, and the interest rate isn't linked to the main interest rate either, is it?

It's a lot higher.

It's crazy. But anyway, so, so I, I think that with financial literacy not being available, what could be done as a, as a, you, you being a younger man? Yeah. Bridging that gap between possible future parenthood and being a child of your mom. You've explained that background. What do you see in that important kind of joint stage right now where you're kind of straddling— I'm not saying you're a kid, but you're just straddling that adolescence to adulthood to a full-blown career. What could you see that could be done either in the home or in schools potentially, or in another arena that I'm not aware of that could help kids understand what money is and how that could be a vehicle for something better than just surviving paycheck to paycheck?

Yeah, and I think there's different types of different ways I can approach that question. I think it's an amazing question. So Robert Kiyosaki created a game called Cashflow. Have you played? Have you heard of it?

I'm sure I have it on my shelf. I've not yet played it.

Also, I mean, I played it a few times and I do have two of the games. And we had like a Cashflow Club here locally for a little bit because the first time I played, I was actually with Robert Kiyosaki in Belize 2 years ago. Wow. And it taught me so much. And I thought I knew, like, you know, I thought I knew a little bit about it. I'm like, wow, there's actually a lot left to learn, which thankfully there always is. Um, but in the game, for someone that's brand new, uh, one, Robert Kiyosaki always talks about the best way you learn is by doing it hands-on, at least by actually doing whatever it is you're doing. So in the game, you can kind of simulate as if you were a doctor or police officer and you're trying to get out of the rat race. And the way that you do that is by— you're drawing these cards and there's different investments that you can buy with money. And as you build your passive income, the goal is to increase the amount of income that you're getting from your passive investments and to make that higher than your expenses. And as a doctor, those are like really high, so it's harder. The cool thing about the game is it shows you as a doctor they typically have higher expenses when it comes to their lifestyle. So it's harder for them to get out of the rat race than it is for a police officer or someone that has smaller expenses. And maybe they do make less money, but you can still, if you're just being really, really strategic with it, you can get out of the rat race very quickly. Another thing is you can actually use, like a hack to the game is using a loan from the bank. You can take out, kind of, you can actually do these real things by like going to the bank and getting money. It's called good debt versus bad debt, right? You're using the money and you're arbitraging that loan, paying that interest rate for another investment that can pay a higher interest rate. So just actually having a hands-on things for young kids, you'll make it fun, make it applicable, and you'll see it in, I guess, a simulation. Another thing that we'll do, my brothers and I, because I'm 20, so like, I mean, I'm not that much younger or older than a lot of the kids that hopefully would be getting into the point in their lives where they're starting to at least be interested in some type of future or something like that. So what we try to explain is, what— why do you want to go to school? Why do you want to— like, what's the purpose behind that? If you want to go and do it for a certain thing, great, that's why you should go. But if it's just to make money, which unfortunately a lot of my friends, that's really what they want, like they want to get a job. And that's what I used to do. I used to look it up on Google, what's the highest paying job I can get, um, through like whatever. And I thought that's— I thought in the terms of I work for money, but Robert Kiyosaki talks about you want to work for assets. That's what the wealthy do, right? They work for things that will pay them to own it. So that's something that through our content we're explaining. Okay, well, let's say you don't even want to do— you don't even want to be an attorney or a doctor, but you do want to make a lot of money because you want to be able to live a life by design. What does a life by design look like? Well, that means you have Location freedom, time freedom, and financial freedom. So how do you do that? Well, we'll talk to them about real estate and what it's doing for us and what it's doing for the people around us. Because I don't think a lot of these people that are young, they just don't really understand the importance of getting into it at an early age. There's such an advantage to it that if you do it at an early age, you can at least understand it. You can, one, you can prevent yourself from getting into these big debt like college education. You know, if you don't have to get into that and you don't even want to go to school, you don't have to. I think it's, you know, that's just something that we want to show people that is out there. There's other paths you can go. And also to really understand, like, financial education. That's really one of the main things that we're trying to do on our platform as well, because obviously I know that it's not in schools, so it has to come from somewhere else. And how do you reach these young people? Social media. Yeah, putting a lot of content out there. They're already there. If you can just make it something that they're actually interested in and get them to engage and paint the picture, I don't see why they wouldn't be at least open to learning about it. And I think some people, it might be a little too late. They're kind of too ingrained in what they think they want. But at least as long as you expose them to it, I think social media is the best way to do it on a mass scale. But if you're looking to do it in the home, in my opinion, doing things like Cashflow board games with your kids, that's something that would be amazing. I plan on doing that with my kids. And also, just personally, I haven't all have it all figured out, to be honest. I don't have kids yet, right? So sure, um, that's something that I'm still trying to figure out in regards to how I would approach it. But those are some ideas.

It just sounds, sounds like open conversation is one of those things instead of being insecure about it, but share with your kids, not to cause guilt, but that might cause that feeling that you had that wasn't intended to be guilt. But I think your mom was just trying to share awareness with you Yeah, in, in kind candor, if you wish, to use Gary Vee's term, just use that kindness to kind of share with you, just to at least have you positioned at a subtle level, just to have that awareness. And I think that's done really great for you. And going back to just having that open communication, not telling me how much every single bill is and all of that thing, but just have that level of openness where, yeah, I'm having a struggle with you know, mentally right now, or financially, you know, we got to be careful on what we spend here. Don't worry about it, it's not a long-term thing, but we're just gonna— what my dad said— tighten our belts a little bit, you know what I mean? For sure. Which is the result of cutting back, do you know what I mean? Not the access, you know.

For sure, for sure. And something that's, I would say, very, uh, that you can almost include in financial education is also just learning real skills. Which in school, unfortunately, I do think that's another thing that it lacks— sales skills, marketing skills. Like having perhaps your kids at a young age learning how to sell or the importance of it. Because I think attaching it to something else— this is my theory because I haven't implemented it yet, I don't have kids yet— but if you can just help them understand why it's important to know these certain skills at a young age, then you'll just set them for more— you'll set them up for a better way to success and whatever that means for them. It doesn't have to look like whatever you're doing, but everyone, it doesn't matter who it is, going to have to learn how to sell and sell their way through life. It doesn't matter who you are, you know, what you're looking to do and what industry you're looking to work in or whatever path you choose to take. You're going to have to sell yourself to someone eventually. And then marketing as well. I think these are lifelong skills. They don't teach you this in school. I was going to go to school to be like a sales major in sales. I don't even know what that would have looked like because I didn't get that far, to be honest. I highly doubt it would have been like me actually talking to people and doing the real thing. And I think those are the valuable experiences that if you can teach the kid that failure is good— that's another point in school, they don't really teach you that failure is good. It's the opposite, right? If you fail the test, it's really bad because you get a bad grade and you're competing. And Robert Kiyosaki says in school they call teamwork cheating, which, yeah, I mean, I think you're still cheating if you're like, if you're like obviously copying someone. But you see the point, right? It's like to work collaboratively, which is such a, like, it's such an important skill that I don't think a lot of the A students, that's why he wrote a book called, that's why the A students work for the C students, because the C students understand that you don't need to know everything. You don't need to always be right. You just need to surround yourself with the right people. And that's unfortunately the thing that I've been able to at least slowly start to learn little by little, but just teaching the kid at a young age. And I think that that's like the thing that it's not like you're a, going to be making them feel, I guess, without— I think adversity is good. So it's not like you're just trying to make them— what's the word I'm looking for—

spoiled, right?

Yeah, I think there's a balance, right? But definitely just trying to teach them there's real skills that they can use.

Yeah, I mean, it's leverage at the end of the day. Andrew Carnegie talked about it, or, you know, Napoleon Hill did about Andrew Carnegie leveraging people. Henry Flagler did. Then Henry Ford, the story of he's got 5 buttons on his desk. I don't need to know anything about this business, but I got these 5 buttons that will tell me everything that I need to know about what's going on in my business. And it's not just like you said, leveraging money, but leveraging people as well. And I think that's something Alex Hormozi talks about often is leverage. You know, how can we rise above and get somebody else to do a job that we can hire in and outsource to do to allow us— it's the who, not how, very simply. And you know, it's a challenge for some people, but it's where, I'm kind of stuck in the S right now, trying to get over to the B in the cash flow quadrant, is just trying to let go of certain things that I need to just outsource and just have somebody take on and know that there are going to be some failures on the way to success. But, but that's part of the learning curve of bettering systems, bettering automation, bettering processes and procedures, and ironing out the kinks that aren't necessarily there when you're doing something yourself. You don't have that visibility, but when you have somebody else do it, then you can see some of the kinks because you're not automatically accounting with the things that you already know to pivot to. But same, same with money and everything is, is you can have some failures sometimes, and hopefully mum and dad are there to kind of help you with it sometime, if even if it's not financial, but guide you in the right direction to stand, get you to stand on your own two feet and get around that.

Yeah, I think letting— in my— I mean I just hear stories, but I think letting the kid fail is probably one of the best things you can let them do and kind of let them figure it out on their own. Obviously you want to like be these, um, I guess guardrails to not fall off the cliff and then not be able to get back up, but letting them figure it out on their own will teach them more in my opinion. Because I always learn— this is how they always say, like, don't be a fool and not learn from other people's mistakes. But I do think that you learn best by failing. Yeah, that's how I personally learned the best because use your real experience. So, um, not protecting your kid too much. And I think a lot of people might end up doing that, but yeah, that's just something that I've learned for myself.

And you talk about, you know, meeting these people that you and I know, and that some of them are the same people, some are different people. Yeah. Why wouldn't we compress what we learn from people that have already made some of these mistakes? We're going to make some of those similar mistakes, but nobody's journey is exactly the same. Yes, we might make the wrong decision that causes similar outcome to what somebody else has, but there's going to be lessons we can learn from it. And even go and talk to those people about how did their error come about, how did their failure come around, what was their transformation or transcendence that allowed them to get past that. And these people are willing to help us. It's not like this scarcity mentality we grow up with, you know, like when teamwork is cheating, right? That's completely the opposite mentality where you've got to just suck it up yourself. Not that somebody should bail you out, but, but somebody's there to lend a hand and say, hey, I see what happened there. Let's work through this together and we can get you to even higher level than you saw, you know.

100%. 100%. And school— I mean, and to go back to the school system, I think a lot of people are individualized almost, which, um, I understand why they do it, but I think like not everyone is like, uh— everyone's a genius. Robert Kiyosaki talks about this. Everyone is a genius in their own way. Some people are genius on like the football field, Other people are geniuses at math, but it's almost like they're measuring everyone using the same metrics. And not everyone is just naturally born for the same thing in regards to the gift that they might have. And it's almost like they suppress that genius. And that's why a lot of people end up coming out of school and not really understanding what they want to do. And that's kind of what was my— me, I was a little lost. Napoleon Hill talks about it. I was somewhat of a drifter. The year after I graduated high school, I grew up playing soccer. And that was my thing. And then when I stopped playing soccer, I kind of was just drifting. I honestly didn't know what I wanted to do. I thought I just wanted to go to school to be a business major because I didn't know what else to do. That's why I chose that major. Um, to not go back down that path, but I think just understanding that like there's different metrics that you can measure and you don't have to know everything, which is the best thing that I've ever been taught. It's all about who you know, right? Who, not how. And you just surround yourself with amazing people and then find that one thing that you're really good at. And obviously you don't want to just try not to improve in other aspects, but understanding what you're really good at and focusing on that and then finding other people to fill those gaps, that's, that's one of the best things that I've learned so far.

Yeah, it's like trying to, trying to, trying to measure a fish against how well it can climb a tree. It's just not suited to doing that kind of thing. And putting everybody in the same academic testing scenario isn't, isn't helpful for them either, because there are many things that they'll be excellent at if they were given the opportunity. But these academic people aren't aware of so many of the sort of, you know, empathic, the, or spiritual and non— right, you know, vocational things, because they've got their mentality on excellence being A grades and, and excellence in this particular area, but they're not open to thinking that something else is great.

For sure.

And yeah, football field that's earning a million dollars a year that didn't get the degree but is doing great. And no football player has a degree. Many most of them do. But it's just that, that conflict between, well, you'll only support academics here, yet you'll support somebody that didn't do that, but you're okay. But if they don't fit your thing in your, your world, then there's a problem, right?

It's interesting because I think the, the student that— I mean, people that typically will do well in school tend to take less risks. Um, that's just, that's why, like, twin scenario, I have a twin pair that I won't name because because people will definitely know them. But one twin, it was just less risk, he was more risk averse and the other one was willing to take risk. And that's why they ended up in different places. And one was a better student and the other one wasn't. I don't think that's a coincidence, right? I think that definitely plays into the role of this person was that way and they had certain traits and this one wasn't. And maybe he didn't excel in this environment, but now after school and quote unquote, it all is subjective in regards to how you measure success. But if we're going to measure it in regards to freedom of, you know, time and location and the ability to build a business and have a lot of passive income, which this is a financial podcast and trying to teach people that. That's something that we definitely want to strive towards. It shows you that you don't have to be a good student to be successful in that way.

Yeah. Yeah. And several of the people that stand on stage that we've been to speak, hear speak, have been in jail and they've been in all sorts of situations. And, you know, from your humble beginnings, It's often when you get to the bottom that you suddenly see where the top is and that there's nowhere further down to go, that the only way is up. I mean, Simon Cowell from— I think it's American Idol you call it over here, isn't it? It's Pop Idol in the UK. He was down to his last, like, £5 note, you know what I mean? His last $5 bill. And it wasn't an instant, suddenly became a millionaire, had an idea overnight, but it was the genesis of his rebirth and his re— you know, leaving behind the previous mentality that he had, this previous mindset rather, and just building himself into the confident, skilled, talented human being that he is, and finding all of the traits that were, yeah, inside of him all of the time. And then just discovering that path was no longer for him, that it served him well in whatever capacity it did, and, and he got to where he is. There's a lot of soccer players in the same way you know, that, you know, they've come from nothing. I think Maradona was one of those that came from little or nothing, wasn't he?

And then, yeah, yeah, I think all of them. I mean, not all of them, but like I'd say majority of the athletes, period. Um, yeah, obviously not all of them, but you know, a lot of them, like the Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, you know, pretty much all the big ones that I can think of came from humble beginnings. And one thing that I want to touch on is the books and the people I think those two things play the biggest role in my life in regards to how my life has changed. So as I've grown in all aspects of my life, so has my network. So has the number of books I've read, the different authors I've been able to read, and the people that I've met. As I level up my network, and I guess to put it in like a very simple term, that has changed. And I think a lot of younger people, or just people, if you're new to any industry or if you're young, you may have this circle, and it might be like a fear thing that holds people back from outgrowing that group for whatever reason. Perhaps you want to fit in, perhaps you're scared of what they'll say and they judge you, they judge you for changing, because I was judged. I think that's one thing that as soon as you understand, it's okay, it's honestly good to outgrow some certain things and environments. That means that you're changing, you're growing. And also, it's sometimes crucial that you do that because it may not be the best environment. And a lot of younger people, they're I mean, I was literally in high school like 4 years ago. I know what it's like to like the peer pressure. It's not even peer pressure. It's almost like you want to do it because you want to fit in, right?

So it's a herd mentality, isn't it?

Yeah. I mean, it's the cool thing to do is to do these certain things. So, uh, you'd almost like be— it's like almost against your natural instincts, right? Um, to, to not do whatever they're doing. So that doesn't always— that is not typically— it's not the right thing in a lot of cases. Maybe some it is, but actually let's say in that, in certain cases it's not the right thing. But let's say that you're hanging out with a group of successful, vibrant, you know, fulfilled human beings and you're able to get into that environment. Now your natural instinct will be to fit in. And that's why I think it's so important for you to surround yourself with people who are living the life that you'd like to live. And if you're young, maybe you don't understand what that looks like yet because you haven't had the time or the exposure. But that's why it's so important to read these books and to go to events, to meet these people, ask them amazing questions. As you— my opinion, as I've learned a little more and more, I've gotten— I've gained the ability to ask better and better questions, which teaches me more and more, which leads me to more questions. And I think it's amazing to hang out with people that know a lot more than I do. I really, really love doing that because I'm like, I'll ask a question and I just sit back and listen. And it makes me so happy because it actually works. It helps. It works. And you can try to bring value, of course, because it doesn't matter where you are and who you are, you can bring value to others. But that's the one thing that I can say is it doesn't matter if you're young, especially if you're young, and you mentioned, you know, a lot of the mental health that people might have at a young age, it comes down to who you're hanging out with. Because it's very, for me, it's very simple as the content that I'm consuming, the music I'm listening to, the books I'm reading, the people I'm hanging out with, all of that immediately affects the way my thoughts, the way, I think. Yeah. And like you said, um, about the thoughts in the beginning, we were talking offline about, or I don't, maybe it was just on this, but you mentioned that you didn't think you, you could control your thoughts. And I don't think you can control all of them, but the way that you react to them, the voice in my own head.

Yeah.

I've, it's come such a long way in my own head. Like, and that's why I'm able to wake up, uh, really early every day regardless of how I feel. Cause I'm not thinking about I don't think based on my emotions, right? And I learned this. So I think it's a lot to learn, but it's definitely possible to change your life in amazing ways.

Yeah, absolutely. And, and it's just cycles of change. And, and as long as we're on that upwards, you know, positive cycle of just growth, it's just, it's just like a roller coaster in many ways. I mean, they say that the path to success is not a straight line, right? But it's just this roller coaster. If you get to the peak of one hill, there's a trough before another higher peak, and You know, it's finding your way along and, and, and finding people that will give you a hand up on the way along. I mean, yeah, it's just, just such a great, great environment to be in. You know, it's funny, I don't know how many years ago it was, maybe 20 years ago, maybe more, I did some sort of personality test. I think it was in the UK, and my polar opposite personality type was a motivational speaker.

And I'm not surprised.

It's not that I'm seeing motivational speakers, but I'm very motivated by the speakers that I see.

Right.

And I think, you know, as I look back on my kids and look back on my experience of motivational speakers with that less— I won't say evolved, that doesn't sound right— but without the growth that I've had with my mindset, I certainly wasn't able to see that motivation there. It was more of the kind of the calling the bullshit. That guy can't be unnaturally happy like that. That's not natural. That can't be that way. And obviously they're not always in that exact mindset, but to not understand that because of my mindset at the time, I'm looking back and seeing that. And now, as kids, I wasn't interested at that age in that. Certainly, you know, we're talking, you know, 30-odd years ago from now, a lot of the industry was— it was a big industry, but it wasn't a big industry compared to the, you know, the annual spend there is now. And I couldn't have imagined myself looking at— even, even in the— even the way that I met the people I first did energy work with back in 2007, if I hadn't met them in the way that I did, I still may not have been in the mindset that— that growth mindset was there, you know, and addressing different things. And, you know, tonight I'm going to go to somatic breathwork with, with a friend of a friend.

Awesome.

And I've done it a few times with one of my closer friends. She's amazing. And this, this person's been trained by one of her teachers, and, and it's just such an incredible experience. And, and I was telling my eldest about it yesterday, mentioned it to her before, and they're interested in doing it, which, which really excites me because there's so many different levels to it. And even told me this 20, 15 years ago. Oh, you're gonna go in a room and breathe rhythmically for an hour and a half with somebody telling you, talking to you, you know, why are you doing it? Are you full of shit?

Do you know what I mean? Right. Yeah, no, no. Yeah, yeah, I do. I mean, it's something that I do, and I didn't do it all the time. I'm thankful that I got into it when I— entrepreneurship opened this door for me, man, like in all aspects— my spirituality, my faith, my financial education in every aspect, my health. That's something like I used to— I diet now and I never used to do any of that. I never used to meditate, do yoga, wake up early, read consistently. I hated reading. I'm not going to blame— I make school seem like it's a bad thing, but school just really— I was reading things I didn't enjoy and I thought my brain kind of put the two together and reading is boring. I hate reading, you know.

Yeah, I learned saxophone when in my early teens, and I was— I wasn't learning saxophone music. I wanted to be learning, you know, Careless Whisper and crap like that that you probably never heard of. I think, yeah, around TikTok in recent years. But, you know, I wanted to learn stuff like that that was actually a saxophone playing, not Eleanor Rigby, which was— I love the Beatles, but that was something different. That was the melody of the song, not the sound, not the melody of a solo or stuff like that. It's not that I didn't like the saxophone, but it didn't motivate me to learning it. And then when I became, uh, when I, when I got divorced, like, what was it, 10, 12 years ago now, I went and bought a saxophone again. Then the first, I was looking around for a teacher, and the teacher said, oh, what kind of music do you want to learn? And that question was just, that just opened me up. It was like, oh wow, great, now I've, now I've found what to do. I don't play anymore, but I'll probably get one, another one at some point.

Yeah.

But that is the question. It's like you go to school and they teach you this androgynous stuff that means nothing really. You can't get a relationship to or a context, right? Except if they had— if they had asked you, what do you like playing with? What do you learn? What do you like doing? And then they structure that learning around, oh, I love Legos, I learn building things, engineer mindset maybe. I'm not saying categorizing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I like drawing, I like painting, I like music. And then you can structure something in a way that they can learn each of those topics. I know this is extreme, but even just the minor way of understanding whether people speak inferentially or literally and whether they're kinesthetic, whether auditory, and all of those different types of listening, hearing, learning, speaking. The skill of a teacher is not just conveying information, but it's conveying information in a way that's meaningful and understandable to to the student. And there are many that do a really amazing job at that, and there are some that don't do such a good job, and there are some that get demotivated because they can't express that, that to, you know, kids as they develop. So, you know, it's an incredible skill which is, uh, missing there, you know. So, um, yeah, so yeah, perfect.

No, yeah, I completely agree. And in regards to like the doors that entrepreneurship opened for me, it changed my life for the better. And I think, like you said, when you first heard about the rhythmic or whatever word you used, sorry, I butchered that.

Rhythmic breathing.

Yeah, yeah, rhythmic breathing. I meditate every day and to be honest, I do get stressed out because of my what I do throughout the day in regards to work. And I'm always like, how do I— because I get like to the point where I tell my brother, I talk about it too. I'm very open about it. I've never been this stressed ever in my life. And it's day by day. And it's not a healthy thing. But how do I still maintain the ability to come back to my homeostasis or like my home base? And I tie it back to I meditate every single day and throughout the morning, all these thoughts are rushing as I'm sure you experience when you're meditating. And you're able to come back to this one place through breathing. And it's practice. And as you said, there's levels to it. So 2 years ago, I used to just lay there and fall asleep. But now, like, I've gotten better and it works. And I apply that same method to my work throughout the day. When I'm stressed, I'll just breathe and, you know, meditate for like a minute and things like that. But small things like that, people think like, why would I do that? As a young person especially, you're like, why would I do that? Well, if you have all these thoughts that aren't making you feel good, or you're stressed out about a test or you're stressed out about some relationship, something like that. And all— and I think all these decisions would— you make better decisions if you're able to be clear-minded, one. Two, you'll feel better. And you're— I think my life has improved, and yours can too, if you start picking up these habits that these people that I learned from— I'd be the most successful, and that's why I'm doing it, because it works for them, it might work for me. So that's what I do. It comes down to spending time with the same different people and I consume that content and then apply it to my own life. And I think for any young person, it's not something that like you'll ever regret getting into too early on. Or if you're not doing it, then you're never going to regret getting into it.

Yeah. Well, fabulous. That was quite a journey we took today, Jeffrey. So, so grateful you joined us. It's been so enjoyable. And, you know, I'm sure your brothers have got their own perspectives and experiences of the same experiences. And I think that's beauty of everything. But what you've shared with me and us today has been so unexpected but so grateful. I never know what's going to come up, but it's always just a joy to hear perspectives and examples. And so is there one thing you'd leave with us to think about as far as now your future journey is ahead of you? What are your goals or, you know, plans in the next 3 to 5 years maybe?

Yeah. So the first goal is to retire my mom. That's the burning desire right now. Truly, and foremost, that's the first one. After that, I want to— we have investors that invest with us, so I want to help them build a life by design as well. That's something that I want to do for myself. And I tell every investor that I speak with here, it's not just about, yes, the investment, we're trying to make money, but at the end of the day, it's about why. You're trying to invest with us. That's why I always ask each investor, what's, what's your why? Like, why are you investing? So that I can understand if it's a good fit, because we want them to live a life by design for many reasons. But the main one is I think most people will be more fulfilled and happy if they're able to do what they want with their life versus having to do it for money. So that, that's one of the biggest things over the next 3 to 5 years is helping more people accomplish that goal, help my mom retire, and then eventually live a life by design for myself.

Fabulous. And I think you'll find that sooner than you think, really, you know, with the, with the, with the, with the meaning you're putting behind this and the, and the cause that you have. I think you're going to find that very much sooner, you know. So yeah, Jeffrey, honest, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate you, and, uh, we will be seeing much more of you. And, uh, I, I wish you a wonderful rest of the day. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Trystan. It was a pleasure.

Thank you for your time to join us today. Please use the links below to follow Jeffrey and see what projects and investments he's working on, see how you can get involved. See you on the next episode of Birth to Net Worth.