Round Two w/ Xavier Waterkeyn Part 1 w/ Reality Transurfing

Hello everyone, and thank you for tuning in to this special edition of the RT Podcast with Xavier Waterkeyne, the International Man of Mystery, the YouTube Man of Mystery. Everybody's all lit up over— I mean, people loved that last podcast. It was amazing. It was like at least 4 people that said they watched it.

I've noticed that your subscriptions have risen also.

Yes, they are going up. Well, I'll tell you why. Something's happened and now if you Google Reality Transurfing, my YouTube videos are popping up on the first page. Ah, so I think this is what they call getting ready to go viral, I hope.

Well, I'm hoping it's a snowball effect for you because it takes— those first few hundred take a long time, but then after you start picking up and picking up, it's like the snowball effect gets bigger, bigger, bigger.

Yeah, it's like I'm highlighting a sector of reality that exponentially more YouTube subscribers appear.

Excellent. So you can spread the word more efficiently.

Yes. Spread the good word of Reality Transurfing. So cool. I appreciate you taking the time to do this again. I really look forward to this call. And yes, I think that, uh, there is— I'm not sure why people are like— I was, I was thinking that maybe not a lot of people would watch the last one and then a bunch of people did and said they liked it. So There's something going on. They like, they like you.

Well, maybe it's also the glamour of being Australian.

Oh yes, yes.

Can you see the aura of light above me?

The questionable accent. Where is he from? Is he South Africa?

Yes, the extremely questionable accent. I mean, I can sound considerably more British if you want me to.

I thought you were going to do your Oakey accent though.

Oh, my Okie accent. Like, oh, okay. I've got to, I've got to think about that because I don't, because I've got to tap into that one. I've got to tap into my inner Dr. Phil. So, you know, no, I won't get it immediately. I'll have to, I'll be great if I could have a linguistic model for it, but I just can't get it right now. I'm not channeling Phil at the moment.

You'll get it triggered.

Yeah, Dr. Phil, I'll get a trigger at some point. All right, I mean, I can, I can do a generic Southern United States, which doesn't really belong anywhere, honey child.

That sounds like, that sounds like, wait, that's not Texas, that's like Louisiana.

Louisiana. Louisiana.

Yeah, Nolans.

Nolans. I quite like all of those accents. I think they're charming.

Yes, they are. I actually had, for a number of years after I left my hometown, I had what I later learned was a— referred to as an urban accent. So people would ask me in the United States, which country are you from? Can you understand?

That doesn't surprise me because overseas, I don't know whether a lot of Americans know this, but overseas Americans have this perception of being very insular, that nothing really happens outside of the United States. I mean, when you have a population of 330 million people which are divided into very broad categories and zones, each of which could be an independent nation of its own, own. It's more like an empire. Yeah. But even within that, a lot of Americans— well, the rest of the world has an impression that a lot of Americans are very, very narrow in their focus, and so they're surprised about anything that happens that isn't American or somehow goes outside of that field of experience, which all, if you think about it, all cultures have. We all are trapped in our own little bubble of uniqueness, and stepping outside of the bubble is probably one of the greatest things that you can begin to do. You had a podcast recently about stepping out— yes, it was about stepping outside of your comfort zone because of Self-sabotage.

Oh yeah, today, the video today. Yeah. Yeah.

So I thought, yes, I understand that. But there's so many things that you can do about that. There is so—

because it's wild. Yes.

Yeah. And the thing is that you can do it in the comfort of your— and privacy of your own home. If you're just sitting on your couch or just lying down in bed, there's nothing unsafe about imagining a particular scenario until you've imagined it so often that, like I said in my commentary, it feels like a comfortable old sweater or a broken-in pair of shoes rather than a new pair of shoes that will give you blisters.

Yes.

There's so much you can do about just gradually acclimating yourself to a new reality. I don't have a particular choice because I was talking to you just before we started recording that I was going to mention my peculiar Physiology. I have a condition called mirror-touch synesthesia. Have you ever heard of it?

Mirror-touch?

Mirror-touch synesthesia.

No, but it sounds very intriguing.

Well, do you know what synesthesia is?

No.

Synesthesia is when you mix, uh, sensual modalities. So for example, you You see sounds.

Oh, yes, yes, yes, I've heard of this.

Or you hear colors. Or you taste— or particular names have a flavor. Like Tom might be the taste of pineapple. Renee might taste like chocolate or something. You see what I mean?

Yeah.

Because there's something peculiar in the wiring of some people because that's what their thing is. Mirror touch. Refers to the fact that when I look at something, I feel it somatically. So it's especially true with gross motor movements. For example, I can't watch a football game because every time somebody gets tackled and lands hard on the ground, I feel it as if I'm actually being pushed and falling down onto the ground.

Whoa.

So if I'm watching an action film and somebody's being punched, I feel a little bit as if I'm being punched.

Is that just a— it's just a neurological birth defect, or—

I wouldn't call it a defect. I would call it a variety, a variation on what seems to be possible within human physiology. But it does—

You didn't get like a head injury or something?

No, no, no. In fact, I lived with it for many— for most of my life and thinking that everybody everyone else was like this too. It's like when you're— if you're short-sighted and you don't know you're short-sighted until one day you try a pair of glasses on that belongs to a friend and all of a sudden everything becomes clearer. You think, "Oh, there's something peculiar about my vision." Yes. But because you've never had a reference for it, you assume that everybody feels the same. I could never understand why people behave really badly towards each other or hit each other because I said, "What's the point? You just feel that back." But apparently not everybody is wired like this, obviously. But I had to— I ended up Googling a couple of years ago, "When I see people falling down, I feel it." And then a whole bunch of references to mirror-touch synesthesia came up. And I realized I wasn't the only person on the planet that had this condition. It's unusual, not hugely rare. Maybe it's in 1 in 100 people have it. To various extents. To various—

100, that's a lot.

It is, but probably a lot of people out there are walking around with it without even the slightest idea it's going on. And it varies from day to day how I experience it. I had an experience a couple of months ago. I was simply walking down a path and watching some flowers sway in the wind, and I felt myself—

Interesting.

Swaying too. It makes you empathetic, but not directly, because I can't necessarily feel your emotions, but because I feel what's going on in your body, I can link that to an emotional feeling. But it makes life interesting in that, for example, my body always thinks that it's moving even when it isn't. So I'm constantly experiencing exercise even if I'm lying down. As a result, even though I don't do much exercise— and this is what led to this discussion earlier, you said that since this thing started you're not doing much exercise. I don't have to because I can— I watch other people moving and my body thinks it's moving too. So I can maintain reasonable muscle tone spending all day in bed.

Really?

No, I have the— no, truly, because my body is constantly convinced that it's moving. I have the bone density of a 25-year-old because my bones are constantly being given tiny little shocks. I've often thought of renting myself out to NASA because I thought if you could somehow mimic this— yeah, if you could mimic this for astronauts Yeah. They would be able to experience exercise without having to spend hours and hours on a treadmill so that when they come back to Earth, their bones are not the bones of an 80-year-old.

Yeah.

That's interesting. And it's interesting to speculate on the huge variety of different ways that people can experience reality, even just neurologically. Because it makes you very much a relativist. You cannot assume that anybody experiences reality in the same way that you do.

Yeah. Cause as you said that, I was like actually thinking about, you know, certain perceptions that I have and I'm like, oh, is there— do I maybe have something that would fall along those lines or thinking of other people? Like, yeah, I mean it's, it's fascinating. It's like vision, right? They say that no two people see the world in the exact same way.

Exactly, and there are, for example, a lot of women are tetrachromats, which means that they have an extra ability to perceive colour.

Yeah.

Which is unavailable to the majority of the human race. There might be a few very rare male tetrachromats, but there doesn't seem to be much scientific investigation of that. But the point is that you cannot assume that Anybody perceives reality the same way you do. We all exist in our own particular perceptual universe, and it's really dangerous to project your assumptions of how you experience your universe onto somebody else. And this goes— and this is very relevant to Reality Transurfing or any other modality because it awakens you to the idea that what might work for you might not work for somebody else purely because at the very base level of interaction with material reality, your consciousness will experience a different way of being in the universe. And I would argue in addition that we all live in our own particular universe, right? Right now you experience your universe. I'm experiencing my universe. The scripts are parallel at the at the moment and I'm looking through my script at the moment and say, okay, page whatever. But once we finish this conversation, our scripts diverge.

Yep. Yes. So you can't—

As it would for the people watching this.

Yes. And you can't just have two scripts merge or cross over and then you get triggered by somebody else's perception of reality and respond. Based on your own— I mean, this is a very interesting conversation when it comes to the topic of empathy, right? I mean, because there's obviously people that are very into animal rights or into anti-death penalty or whatever, right? Like huge—

Yeah, because they'll have a different narrative because that's yet another layer of abstraction. There is the immediate as much as you can say raw input of information or the field of experience, but then there's the story you layer on top of that. And even identical twins, which one would assume would have very, very similar immediate inputs, nevertheless, especially if they're brought up in different households, would have very different narratives going on about the meaning of things. So, yeah, it's, it's— and that you had another podcast recently about not wanting to change people.

Yeah. Oh yeah, just letting people, just letting people be. Oh, because just the energetic economics of it alone. I mean, sure, because I've had, I've had people like putting myself out there you know, doing what I'm doing, talking about Transurfing, I've had people come up against me and be like, "You are wrong!" You know, I'm just like, I'm like, "Whoa!" I'm like, "You are wrong!" I know, like I've had people just really like, "You are wrong! How can you say that?" And I'm just like, I'm like—

I'm giving you my pure point of view.

I'm like, "What book are you reading?" Like what, you know, like there's no— You know, and adopting the idea, adopting the mentality that everyone is right. You know, nobody's wrong. Everyone is right.

That, that, but that's an inevitable consequence of the primary understanding that we live in an infinite omniverse. If everything that is conceivable, and I'm not just talking about conceivable from a human point of view, I'm talking about anything that is conceivable exists as a script in the omniverse, then no reality is more real than any other. And at that point, you can say either everything is true and simultaneously say nothing is true.

Yeah, well, you can also say nothing is true for sure, but I like to say everything is true because then you're not negating somebody else's point of view. You know, then you're like, you're agreeing with them, which, you know, there's evidence to support both theories. Everything's true or nothing's true. So, you could go with nothing's true, but that's going to challenge somebody else's belief system. Whereas if you just agree, right? I mean, coming just from just a really, really basic stance of non-duality and just be like, "Oh, yes!" You know? Yeah, I see what you're saying.

It's perfectly reasonable to give somebody that. That's your truth. Great. It doesn't really work for me, that truth. Or it might work for me or whatever. But you do you.

Yeah, you do you.

Feel free. Feel free to do you. We might not be able to have any sufficient common ground to continue to interact. I'm not going to take away your right, or in fact it's not even a right, it's an inevitable consequence of consciousness that it will filter out from the field of potentiality, the space of variations, whatever that consciousness chooses to experience in that moment. And since there is an infinite number of consciousnesses in the omniverse, What, why are you gonna, yeah, I know.

Me with arguing now has become completely like, you know, I really started to, it started to evolve within myself. Some of those videos that I sent you for the, that podcast.

Yeah, the philosophical ones, Schopenhauer, Kant, and Spinoza.

Yes. So, I started listening to those probably about 2 years ago. And for the listeners that are watching this, this gentleman has these podcasts that are very nihilistic in nature. And he talks a lot about—

and he talks in a very depressed English accent. And it's all very, oh, I'm having a terrible time and my wife is away and I'm just staring at the walls. I'm going to talk to you about a philosopher who died 200 years ago and how meaningless— and how meaningless everything is.

Yes. And I absolutely love it. And the reason that I love it is because it helps me to shrink down in size where I feel like I'm insignificant, my actions are insignificant. Anything that I do is purely for entertainment. The sake of entertainment, right? Even my ways that I make money or my relationships or whatever, none of it actually has any meaning, right? So no real meaning, only the meaning that I assign to it.

So yes. Okay. That's very postmodern of you, but yeah, go ahead.

It is very postmodern. Yes. I can be a little bit of a postmodernist, a little bit, you know.

Whatever works for you, yes.

But here's the thing. Well, no, I wouldn't say it's postmodernism. Nah. I would say it's a little more— it's a little more just like bare-knuckles, like bare-knuckles realist. Okay. Bare-knuckles realist is what I would say. So when I was listening to this stuff and I started resonating with it, it. And I'm like, God, it is true. Nothing has any meaning except for the meaning that we assign to it. And then, and then I started to become a little conflicted because I was like, well, that's not what Reality Transurfing is really saying. They're saying that everything has meaning, right? Look for signs and, you know, the soul frail and what your soul is connecting with is why there's a lot of meaning. And, you know, there were these two almost polarized philosophies.

—To me, I don't see the polarity. I see two sides of the same coin.

Well, there are absolutely ways that there are two sides of the same coin. But there are other sides, like one of the podcasts that I sent you, he said, "Try talking to the universe." And then he actually gives an example. He's like, "Universe, can you hear me?" He's like, "See? Nothing. Nothing came back." And for me, It's— I like to, I like to sort of load up one philosophy with details and parts of another that are going to help me round out my philosophical viewpoint so I don't become an extremist, right? I don't want to become an extremist. I don't want to become so super narrowed in my focus that I believe this is the only way that things could be.

I'd imagine that you don't want to become a Transurfing fanatic, nor do you want, nor do you want to come across as a proselytizer, nor I imagine do you want to turn Reality Transurfing into some sort of religion with a dogma.

No, I want, if it were to become a, if it were to become an entity, that was larger than it is now, I definitely would want any of the adherents of the Pendulum to feel as though they could take it or leave it at any time. I wouldn't want people to feel like they were hooked in.

Having said that, though, there are people who have natural disposition towards wanting to be part of a dogmatic worldview. Well, I can certainly— They want to feel right.

I can certainly make that part of their desire if they would like. I can do that too. Yeah, I can do both. But here's the thing with just—

I mean, you'd better, because otherwise you'd be wrong.

Exactly. Or I wouldn't be intense enough, right? Because that's what a lot of people are attracted to, is the intensity of it. But so listening to this other stuff, it really helped me to clarify something within myself. And that was, you know what, because I felt conflicted. How can I like this and I like this? And then I realized, oh my God, I totally have the freedom to like whatever I want. And it doesn't mean if I subscribe to one theory, I can't subscribe to another. I have to say the whole conversation of free will, I subscribe to both. Human beings have free will and then they don't. They're just programmed and they're just acting in the way that they've been programmed to act and that's it. But on the other hand, they can have free will and create their own reality. Also, and I know that's confusing to people because they're like, well, and I've had people challenge me over this before, well, how can you view it as both? Simply because there is evidence to support all theories. There is no truth. There is no ultimate truth. So in me doing this work within myself and being able to go to a Christian Sunday service, which I've done, and I can sit there and I can enjoy it. You know what I'm saying? I can go to a synagogue. I can enjoy sitting at a synagogue. I could go do prayer. Practically anything where anyone is talking about any sort of philosophy or religion or politics or whatever, and I could put myself in the shoes of the people there and be like, okay, I can understand why people are following this. So in doing that, I have become incredibly tolerant of others, you know.

As a writer, I have no choice but to do that. I'm currently working on a project that's dealing with demonic possession and exorcism or deliverance. Now I'm being challenged by people in my life who are saying, how can you ascribe to that worldview? And I said, I'm not ascribing to any worldview. I am describing the worldview of other people. And then they ask me, well, do you think the demons are real? And I'm thinking, in an infinite universe, there must be universes in which demons are real. Yeah, exactly. As there are universes in which angels are real. The question is, do I currently inhabit one of those universes, and does it matter?

Totally, totally. This is exactly— so a couple years ago, I did a seminar on Reality Transurfing, and I asked everyone at the seminar to either draw or write out a description of their visual representation of the alternative space or the space of variations. And what people came up with was beyond fascinating. There were all these really, really great, like, just far-out descriptions. One gal said that she imagined she was in her own little spacecraft and she could fly around the alternative space and land on different planets. And each planet represented a different life track. So, getting to exactly what you're saying, these parallel realities, and does the presence of this thing exist? Yes, most likely it does. It's how I view tapping into any other genre. I'm simply landing on a planet, and when in Rome, I'm just observing whatever it is. The adherents of that pendulum are observing, and I just tune into the same, you know.

And people, if people want that, if people want to experience a reality in which demons exist and angels exist and where there is a constant fight between good and evil, great cosmic forces, I'm quite happy for them to have that. I'm quite happy to accept the fact that that is true, that that is real. To what extent my personal consciousness and my personal universe interacts with that in some sort of Venn diagram, if you can imagine, here's my worldview, here's their worldview, and where it's just enough so that we can touch on it, is up for debate. But it doesn't really matter to me because it's important that they're having an experience. How they describe their experience and the narrative that they have to accompany it might not be my narrative, nevertheless they are experiencing something. And so my expectation is that when you write a book, you are describing one of an infinite number of possible worlds. And therefore you are providing people with an opportunity of saying, okay, here is yet another vision, feel free to cherry-pick what you like from this, experience what you want to experience. When you've had enough of that experience, move on. But I'm also hoping that people who read the book eventually, who, if they are having demonic experiences, or if they are having experiences that could be classified as being invasive, other consciousnesses invading their body or leeching their body, etc., if they're having something like that and they're confused about it, if they read this book or books like it, they can say, well, they can at least think they're not alone. Yes. Um, other people have had these experiences. And if you can move, if you can choose that reality track, then you can choose another one in which you are liberated from this. And maybe that's part of the fun. You get into, you dive deep into this world of terror and horror. Only to realize through process of experiencing it and emergence out of it and feeling triumphant. Yes. And I'm not going to take that feeling away from somebody.

Yeah, totally. I mean, why would you? Yeah, the, the idea of negating anybody's perspective, um, regardless if it's like a political perspective or something like a mental illness I mean, it's like, what is the— what's the win there? You know, like, what is—

I don't see it as a win, but I think that you still need to realize that you are capable of saying no to somebody else's offering. If somebody presents to me in a particular way, the first question I ask myself is, what in me is allowing this presentation of this person? And that goes back to an idea. Have you ever heard of ho'oponopono? Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that, that world, that worldview is I am responsible for everything that happens in my reality. If you're showing up as a crazy person, I ask myself, what part of me is allowing the opposite pole of that so that you can, so that the end, so that that presentation of you comes into my reality sphere? And then if I choose to accept that, that's fine. But if I don't like it, I can clear myself. Yeah. I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. I love you. I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Thank you. Or whatever mantra or whatever formula works for you, then do it. And it'll either— that person will either change their presentation to you or they will move out of your field of experience.

Yeah, just disappear.

Well, yeah, and they're still going to be in their universe. This is the irony of all this, because there are an infinite number of universes and everyone, every consciousness is at the center of their own universe. None of us really cure reality. Yes. None of us. I mean, I have enormous amount of respect for people who are out there in the world, want— seeing the world as an objective thing outside of themselves and seeking to change it because because it doesn't— they don't like it. They don't like poverty, they don't like hunger, they want to change those sorts of things. But the fact of the matter is, the reality behind that is, no matter what you do, that universe persists. Yes. Oh, absolutely. The book will still be in the library, the DVD will still be in the DVD collection, the scripts will still be there, whether or not anybody interacts with that.

Absolutely, yes.

So we don't, so we don't really have the, we don't really have the power, nor do we need to have the power to change the universe. We only need to choose. You only need to choose.

And I think that's why Vadim says in the book that every theory has the right to exist because of the time that it took for the theory to become a thing in our reality, right?

It had something, and it's not even a matter of right, it just exists. Whether the right is irrelevant, it's still there. Yeah. It's so, ah, okay. Right. I can't change the world. I can change myself. I can change my experience of reality, but the space of variations, the infinite probability field will have all possible outcomes. Okay. I'm not changing anything. Yeah. Nor do I need to. Yeah.

Because if you look at it from, if you look at it from a Transurfing perspective, Arguing with someone would be like trying to eradicate a theory via a single human being.

Yes, that's an interesting way of putting it.

You know, I mean, don't you think? You're trying to eradicate a theory or trying to disprove a theory by arguing with another human being.

Well, the other thing is also— the other thing is also comes back to a Buddhist idea of that what you resist persists.

Yes. Oh, that's very much true.

So that if somebody presents something to you that you don't like, I argue even in the act of arguing, acknowledging that that exists. Totally. And— but you're acknowledging that it exists within your perceptual framework. Yes. The only way to beat, if you like, a reality that you don't like is to move your focus away from it and think about something else. Exactly. I'm swiping— what is it, swiping right or left, whatever it is. I'm not familiar with the apps. Swiping left says no. Is that what it is?

I think— wait, let me go back into my— yeah, because I would say that I would— are you talking about like the dating apps? Yes, exactly. So I used to— I put once I had a profile and what I said on there, I think it was swiping left. The only line I had on the profile, I didn't describe anything about myself. All I said was, I swipe left to the beat of the music, and that's all it said. And I would just boom, boom, boom.

Highly, highly ambiguous of you. Did you get any, did you get any results from that attitude? Yes, it's all because men looked at you and say, and were judging you entirely on your appearance.

Yeah, I didn't have to say— I could put whatever. I could say whatever.

You could say that you were an axe-murdering psychopath, and if they liked the way you looked, they'd swipe right. Totally.

I could say the worst. I could— I could— and I've done that before, just really list all your bad qualities. It's amazing. I mean, it kind of sucks who you end up attracting, but I used to.

Yeah, because obviously if you list all of the so-called bad qualities, you're going to attract people who want to engage with that part of you. So, I mean, I'm really wondering about that as a marketing tool. I guess you putting out there what you're actually saying, okay, this is how I want to engage with you. Okay, bit screwed up, but hey, I'll give you that. Anyway, we're talking about realities, and yes, we're swiping left on realities, right? Yes. Somebody presents something to you, and this idea of staying in the center space of being conscious instead of reacting to somebody saying blah blah blah and you automatically going into a reactive mode. Yes. Either positively or negatively, because somebody might present something that's a really attractive package. Yeah. And you might find yourself unconsciously going towards what you think is attractive. But if you stay in the center space, you become aware of, okay, stepping back a bit, what is this person actually offering me?

Yeah.

Yeah. And in that center space, you can make a more conscious decision. And that's really what all of this stuff is about, this Reality Awakening movement. It's all about making conscious decisions instead of reactive decisions.

Absolutely. So let's, let's talk about that a little more actually, because I think that In the last couple weeks, I've seen a lot of, I've seen a lot of posts on the Facebook group, and I've noticed a lot of little challenges for me where I was challenged by something, and my, of course, you know, because I have my, my, my normal instincts to react, but really getting it down to an art where I can catch myself like a split second, you know, just a sensation, just a very, very, very brief sensation. And I wake up and I'm like, okay, that's it. You're reacting, right? Stop. And the amount of energy that I have been saving, do you know, just even just little, little, little tiny things challenging me and just being like, I'm awake. I'm not playing, right? So why, why do we— why are we so wired?

Ah, I've got an answer to that. Yes. Okay, so this is how, this is how life works. Remember how in the last podcast, if you haven't seen it already, please click on, maybe you can do a little connection on one of the— in the last podcast we did, I talked about this, the journey from say the hydrogen atom to consciousness all the way to God, that we're on this endless journey towards becoming ever more conscious so that we can ever create ever more greater and more elaborate realities. Think about the very beginning of the journey. You are completely without free will because you are completely at effect, in the effect stage. Everything else impacts on you. By the time you get billions and trillions of years later, by the time you get to be a developed consciousness enough to have a human body and to be able to have conversations on pieces of equipment that other than other consciousness and human bodies interact with, I would say that you're maybe halfway along the free will journey. There are a lot of things that have to be unconscious. Purely because if they were all conscious, it would be very, very difficult to live. Are you aware of something called aerobic glycolysis?

No, I've never even heard that term before.

OK, aerobic glycolysis is what happens when you digest sugar in the presence of oxygen. There are various numbers of chemical steps in that process. You breathe in, a whole bunch of enzymes interact with the sugar molecules that are floating around in your bloodstream inside the cells, and inside the cells there are little little organelles called mitochondria that combine with the sugar and the oxygen to create something called ATP, adenosine triphosphate. You don't really need to know that, but that's basically the energy currency of the cell. All of those is a series of steps. Can you imagine how difficult your life would be if you had to do every one of those steps consciously? Oh, gosh. Exactly. Digesting a biscuit would be a lifetime of work because you'd be saying, OK, fine. I've got to, I've got to find that enzyme. Oh God, I, I've, I don't have enough vitamin B12 to interact with that enzyme. I've got to get more. Oh, now I've got to coordinate all my movements, et cetera, et cetera. So all of these things have to happen subconsciously or unconsciously. We, our consciousness is this tiny, thin, thin layer on an ocean of tremendous automatic systems. Right? It is therefore unsurprising that when you awaken to a greater level of consciousness, you realize that the whole bunch of things are happening subconsciously, including programming that you accepted before your consciousness was developed enough to be able to say, okay, I'm now going to look at this. Yes. You see how that works? Yes, totally. So what happens then is as you develop your consciousness, more and more becomes available to your consciousness to be able to interact with it. This is why I think of things like whether or not it's a religion or whether it's astrology or any sort of philosophical system is again a pre— is like a prepackaged module for being able to deal with reality until you're ready to deal with that directly on your own.

Got it. Yeah, that totally makes sense. You got that? Yes, it's like training wheels.

Yes, it's like training wheels, or it's also like picking off the rack before you're able to take your skills as a tailor improve or a seamstress improve to the point where you can tailor your own clothing. Yes. So people are always buying off-the-rack realities. Yes. Because they're there. They're easy. They're easy. And of course, in Reality Transurfing Language, you can call them pendulums. Yes. A pendulum is simply an off the, on off the rack reality that you can choose to interact with or not. If you're unconscious, you'll take it wholesale. Yes. It's a bit like buying a generic iPhone, right? And never modifying it. But gradually as people become better at their iPhones or their smartphones and they put different apps on it, they tailor it and it becomes more and more unique to them. So you buy something originally that's off the rack, which has the potential of having a whole bunch of other things put on it. But every, every smartphone is unique because every user has tailored it to their ability and to their needs, to what they want to do. It's the same with their consciousness. We tailor our consciousness to what suits us in the moment based on our ability to add, if you like, modules or apps to our consciousness.

So I totally— I feel what you're saying 100%. And so when— so when you're in—

so when you interact with somebody and you have a knee-jerk reaction, that knee-jerk reaction simply is showing you, oh, here I— here's a module reacting. Yes, I said input. I can override that with my consciousness. Yes. And then say, I will have— I have free will, but I also have free won't. My freedom of will, I can employ to the extent that I can say, okay, that conscious, that thing, I don't have to interact with that thing that's being presented to me, with that module. I can, I may I might, because it makes sense to leave that on automatic. Yeah. And sometimes it can be a very pleasurable thing to leave things on automatic. If you're having a very pleasant sensual experience, you don't want to overthink it.

Yeah. Or if you— and this is me. I'm not a super political person. I don't vote. I mean, I adhere— Oh, you have that option in the States.

In Australia, it's compulsory. Oh, really? Yes. Oh, we get fined if we don't vote. We must participate in democracy whether we like it or not.

Oh my God, I didn't know that. That's kind of scary.

Isn't it weird? It's so totally different to the American perception of freedom of the individual. Is enshrined in the Constitution where the freedom includes the freedom not to participate. Wow.

That's, yeah, that's impressive. Wow. That blows my mind. I never knew that. I'm a, I absolutely, from a Transurfing perspective, I'm not talking about politics at all, from a Transurfing perspective, I love Donald Trump. I absolutely love him because I think he is the ultimate Transurfer. I mean, talk about creating your own reality, right? I mean, he battled pendulums and just did all this crazy stuff, and it's mind-blowing from a Transurfing perspective.

And that may be part of his popular appeal. You've got somebody who says, I don't care, I don't give a damn, this is my perspective. Yeah, totally. Whether he sinks or swims or that is irrelevant. Totally, totally. It's that primary attitude to say, "I'm not going to be apologetic about the reality I'm creating." Exactly. Of course, the danger of that is that you end up with the Steve Jobs problem. I mean, Steve Jobs was often credited with having a sort of reality distortion field around him. Oh, of course. But that presumes that there is an objective reality to distort. Exactly, yes. And so from a Transurfing point of view, you would say, well, there's no reality, there's no ultimate objective reality to distort anyway.

That being said, if somebody, like, I like Donald Trump from a Transurfing perspective, but if somebody told me that I had to go and vote, you know what I'm saying? Like, I would have a really hard time with that. Exactly.

I mean, also because But the political pendulum also creates a format where it's very black and white, yes or no, especially since in many countries there really are two major parties. And the problem with that is that you might agree with a lot of what the one party says and a lot with what another party says, and you just wish that there was somebody that would mix the best bits that you like. Well, that's supposed to happen in parliamentary democracies. It doesn't really, although Italy is a pretty good example of a chaotic political situation that can still work economically. I don't know whether it still is, but it has been in the past. Anyway, going back to this idea of reality, sure, the problem is that like Steve Jobs, you can have a reality that says, "Oh, I'm going to treat my cancer by drinking raw fruit juices." or raw vegetable juices, and then you're dead because you didn't take advantage of the pendulum that already existed that said, "There's a cure for this. It's called chemotherapy. Just do it." "Oh no, I'm Steve Jobs. I've created a multi-billion-dollar technological empire. I must know everything about everything." Or, "I'm Donald Trump. I managed to be elected President of the United States." when everybody else thought that I was just a lunatic, or I'm whatever, or I'm a bit— or I'm Mohandas K. Gandhi and I can beat the British Empire on the basis of running around in a loincloth saying, "I'm not going to do— I'm not going to play your stupid game, Empire." Yeah.

Yes. It's the very qualities that make—

that can change the world are the same qualities that may be your undoing. Exactly.

And that's exactly why I don't think I would ever vote for Trump or anybody like Trump, is because although I appreciate the—

and admire that level of chutzpah.

Oh yes, yes. I mean, yeah, exactly. I appreciate it and I value that, you know, bombastic kind of appeal, but I don't want to be responsible if something goes wrong.

I have, in the course of my career, edited books that support the Trump worldview. I can tell you that by the end of editing those books on the Trump worldview, I am more than half convinced that he's right about a lot of stuff. I have also edited books that are totally the opposite of the Trump worldview, and by the end of those books, I'm totally convinced that Trump is a crazy is a crazy person. Oh, totally. If you're open-minded enough, you can go either way. Any reality that's presented to you. Yes. Whether or not that reality will ultimately work for you is something you've got to judge for yourself. So the responsibility always comes back to what works. So ultimately, I think I'm a utilitarian. Yeah, I don't care what your philosophy is. I don't care what your politics are. I don't care what your religion is. I don't care whether you believe in demons and angels or God as this old guy sitting on a chair in the sky, or whether, or whatever. I don't really care at that sense. I'm more concerned is, is it working? Yes. Is it working? Is it working for me?

Yes, totally. Exactly. So this gets back This gets back to what I was originally going to say, and that is that I'm not a terribly political person. I don't vote. I, um, you know, a lot of times I don't take any stance, and if I do take a stance, it's kind of like a very— I would, I would probably put myself in the category more of like a libertarian than anything else. Like, I'm more about freedom, you know, so it's whatever kind of goes with that sort of—

well, you have liberty as one of your your, your, your scar markings.

Yes. And it's big to me, right? Like freedom, freedom is really, it really speaks to me. So anything that sort of, you know, anything that, that little freedom magnet I carry around, anything it attracts, I'm kind of good with it. That being said, you know, I, I, I live in a small town and I have to entertain myself. Right? I have to entertain myself. I'm entertaining myself now. I entertain myself with my different businesses and the things that I do, you know, with Transurfing and all that stuff. And it's the same for getting heated about a political view. I will allow myself to go into that, into that character that feels strongly about something. But I know that when push comes to shove, it's really not a super steadfast thing that I absolutely believe in. I'm just having fun with that ideology or philosophy or political view or whatever it is. And I know, just like you were saying about editing the books, right? At one side, you could be totally convinced Trump's right. On the other, he's a total lunatic. I know that if I were to meet a group of friends that I thought were super cool— I don't know, maybe this wouldn't happen right now because I am probably a little more steadfast than I give myself credit for. But let's just say something happened and I moved to San Francisco, right? An hour and a half away, I moved to San Francisco. And I was suddenly immersed in that culture, I could just as easily adopt that stuff too, you know, like not super easy, but it would— we are pliable, we are pliable human beings. And I guess the point that I'm trying to make is whatever you, whatever you latch on to, if you wanted to, You could offer yourself, in a number of different ways, the opposite viewpoint and figure out a way to adopt that as well. We could do it. It ultimately has no— there nothing is— nothing is— we are capable of believing anything. Hence, there are people all over the world all believing different things. Different worldviews.

The ancient Greeks had a particular way of doing this called rhetoric. And the idea of rhetoric was basically the capacity to be able to argue two totally opposing points of view with equal conviction and with equal evidence, etc., etc. That was considered by their culture to be a really great skill. If you could pull that off, they thought Wow. Yeah. I'm interested in the fact that you talk about the way that you interact with life as being entertainment. I actually have always maintained as a more fundamental viewpoint, a playful attitude to life. To me, the universe is a playground in which we play different games. Totally. And you can tell a lot about a person by the way, say for example, they play board games. I've played chess with people who take it very, very, very, very seriously, and I've also played chess with people who don't take it seriously at all, and believe me, I have a lot more fun with the people who don't take it seriously. Purely, I mean, I've often played chess with pals, and it's like, okay, let's make up new rules. In this rule, we'll assign numbers to the various chess pieces, and we'll roll the dice, and you have to move that peace, even if it's disadvantageous to you. And there are all these things that you can have, and you can actually have a ball by doing different rules because it becomes fun and it becomes playful, etc. It's very difficult to sell a playful attitude to people who have very competitive attitudes and who want to win. And I think that's a lot of the problem when you're interacting with people who have different worldviews. They often just want to win. It doesn't even— okay, that's fine. And I'm quite happy to give them their win because my ego isn't caught up in their— in that I don't have a stake in it. And stake is something really important. If you've got a stake in something, you're invested in it. And that's great too, but I think it's also a great ability to be able to be deep deep, deeply connected to something and totally see something from a particular worldview and then extract yourself from it, leave it and say, well, that was an interesting trip. Totally. I could not have— I could not have had that experience had I not dived deep into it. But I— but I also took myself out of it. Yes. And I guess consciousness evolves to the point where it does that very easily. And I speculate that if you want to talk about God, God is the ultimate non-committal creator. God doesn't give a damn what people create as long as it's created. There's no evidence that I can see that God has preferences about which game gets played or not. Yeah, exactly.

It's kind of like the playing field is level, right? There's no—

Oh yeah, in an infinite omniverse, all games are equally challenging to whatever consciousness wants to experience at the time.

Yes, absolutely. And there's really no, like, there's no getting back to arguing, you know, something that people are so quick to do these days. You know, my brother is a horrible example. He's constantly getting his Facebook account frozen by Facebook because he's going online and getting political and they—

Well, we're living in the era of outrage where the power is in the victim who gets offended. Totally. Which I think is a very interesting cultural exploration. It absolutely is.

But at the end of the day, when you break it down, and I've tried to say this to him once or twice, and then I realized he just wasn't hearing any of it.

Because you're still invested in trying to change him.

Well, I was in the past. Now I just laugh. Now I just laugh because he messaged me the other day and he said, oh hey, I'm sorry I didn't respond to you on Facebook. My Facebook account is frozen again. And I just text him back, I said, you're an idiot.

Well, Facebook has its own agenda as well. Facebook wants— Facebook has a worldview that it wants to promulgate.

Oh, absolutely. But the thing is, is for him, a young man who's able-bodied with a ton of energy and extremely intelligent, what is he getting from that deal with arguing with people on? There's nothing.

Well, he's got all this energy, it has to go somewhere.

Oh gosh, it just, yeah, that makes me cringe though. Why that? It does nothing, it doesn't produce anything.

Because he's not, because his consciousness has not evolved to the level of his energy.

Yes, and that's the, unfortunate that it— and I think this is probably my— the one thing that I've learned from doing this, and I think we actually had an exchange on the YouTube comments about it. The one thing that I've learned from doing this for the last 5 years, and lots of people coming to me with their problems and, you know, I want this, but I don't have it and I'm not happy I'm not happy with my career, I'm not happy with my romantic partner, or whatever the thing is, is I have noticed such an absolute waste of energy and potential of people that just for whatever reason are either channeling it into— something that does not benefit or suit them at all, or, or they are trying, and I don't know why, if it's subconscious or what, what is going on, but people that are trying to, um, almost squash their creative energetic energy by like coming home, coming home and sitting in front of the TV and watching Netflix for 5 hours.

I would, I would argue that your point, that when you feel that your point of view is too narrow, remember that you're only seeing a small slice of a small slice of a multidimensional being. They have to, perhaps part of them needs to explore that for whatever time they need to, even if that's an entire lifetime. From a human perspective, spending 80 to 100 years wasting your time might look like a waste of a life. From a much broader perspective, it might look like a very, very small price to pay for a greater awakening and expansion of consciousness.

Well, that's a very beautiful way to put it. And I— Very charitable, I think. It's very charitable indeed. And I would— and I would love to be able to adopt that mentality when people come to me asking me for help, you know, because it's challenging for me. I'm now more than ever, but I always have been a person of action and a person of understanding that those future frames are created. Your reality is created by you doing something right now in this moment. Moment that will ultimately materialize, that future frame. You're not gonna change things right now, right? You can act right now that'll change that future frame, but you're not gonna change reality in this moment. In this moment, what you can do is you can take action and you can funnel your energy into something that will actually produce something for the future. But so many people are funneling their energy into things that aren't producing anything and they're not realizing it. That's—

well, okay, but I would then also argue that people who have a lot of energy and people who have a lot of energy to spare seem to also often lack patience. They want it now. They want to have it because the energy itself creates a pressure that needs alleviation. And it's difficult to be patient in the midst of feeling that pressure.

Yeah, I get it. I understand what you're saying. I understand. But it's so—

but as a person of energy, considerable amounts of energy, enough to run 3 businesses and to have YouTube channel going and all that sort of stuff, it would be harder for you to have that, to have a perspective of saying, You know what? Step back, step back. It's not your problem. My brother is not my problem. I'm not my brother's keeper. Okay, right. Mm. Center, center, center. What can I do? What can I offer? With detachment. I am offering these answers. Perhaps you'll take them, perhaps you won't. But at least they're there. I have done my bit by giving you the offering.