Changing the narrative of inclusivity in the beauty industry, one box at a time. The Bili Balogun Story.

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Today I'm talking to Billie Balogun. She's the founder of Tribe Beauty Box and she is amazing. So we're gonna talk about how she is winning the subscription model and how she's creating customer relationships, deep customer relationships with her focus on retention and profits. We're also gonna touch on a very important topic which is diversity and inclusion in the beauty industry, but also overall in the e commerce industry. And we're gonna talk about some serious entrepreneur ment, such as the imposter syndrome, such as the challenges that an entrepreneur is facing, especially in our case as women or as minorities. So join in today to understand more about how you can win if you are a female entrepreneur, if you are a person of color, if you're a minority. Let's talk about what are the actual challenges that we're dealing with and how to overcome them to really win at our business.

I'm here with Billy Balogun. She's the founder and CEO of Tribe Beauty Box. Thank you for coming today. Billy.

Hi.

Awesome to have you today. I just, I'm excited to talk about your business model because I see is growing a lot in the market and I think it's fun and I think a lot of people just switch to this subscription type of model in. In e commerce because.

Especially since COVID Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And I want to know how are you guys, you know, managing those things? But first things first, this is what I ask everyone coming in the podcast. How did you get into E commerce?

I kind of got into E commerce.

By.

I would say by not luck, but just by comfort. You know, it's as you know, I like, I'm a millennial. I don't like being in an office with like people, you know, so many energies. So I'm like, okay, I get to figure something out, do for myself, work for myself, you know, do my own thing. And I figured it out. Both my parents are actually entrepreneur entrepreneurs. My dad has never worked for anyone in his life. So it was kind of natural that I guess I would go down this path. E commerce was great. It was pretty accessible for me, you know, with Shopify, the rise of Shopify, ebay, all of those, eBay, Etsy, all of these kinds of platforms and of course, just Canada being a huge space for growth within the space. Not too saturated, lots of space to grow. I decided, you know what, I'll take the bite. And here we are today.

That's awesome. So you're located in Canada. Canada has been really, really blowing up in E commerce lately. I really think that in the podcast that we have, this is like the 11th episode and I think this is the sixth one with a brand and a company from Canada and you guys been really killing it there.

Thank you.

So, so how did you go to the subscription model? Did you started by subscription or you started with one time and then you went to subscription?

I started with subscription and then we started having one time products. So I guess I did the opposite of what everyone did last year where they already had one time products and then they moved into a subscription.

That's cool. That's cool. So I was reading about about Tribe and I saw that you're calling it like a channel, right? A direct to personal channel for brands that you guys partner with. So you are basically partnering with brands and you're selling products throughout your subscription model.

Yeah, it's a very interesting model because a lot of people don't see the dual sides that subscription boxes have. So to the brands that I work with, we're just another marketing channel. We're just like a Pinterest or like a Facebook ads where it's even more. Sometimes it could be more rewarding for them because we purchase all the products. Well, I purchased all the products that I put in the box. We don't ask any brands for free products. So we make sure that it's ethical, you know, it's fair. And we're making sure that everyone's getting paid always, you know, and then on one, on one end, you know, we are the marketing channel. On the other end, we're like a sampling channel for, for our subscribers who want to try new products, are curious about new beauty products, but don't necessarily want to pay full price for that. And I totally relate to that. There's nothing more annoying than buying like a really expensive, like moisturizer or like lip gloss or whatever, and it just doesn't work. Like, it doesn't look good. And then you, you know, returning things, the hassle, you don't want to return it. And if you do know how things work in the beauty space, like for example at Sephora, most times they actually destroy their returns whether you open it or not. So I have that sensibility to waste. And I never want to return things because I know they're just going to destroy and they're not actually going to resell, which I get it. They don't want to get into any troubles. You know, let's say someone buys a resold item and gets an allergic reaction or whatever. So it's just a huge. A ton of waste. And we, we don't like that anymore. You know, the world has moved from, you know, just like a plastic using world. At every single. Every time we go to the grocery store, you get another plastic bag. Like, thank God we're changing bags, right?

Every household in my house, I have a bag of bags.

And I think, right. So the world is definitely changing. And the whole point of my vision is to change and evolve with it.

Yeah, I really, really agree. I didn't know Sephora was doing this with the return products. Like, I learned something today. I had no idea.

Yeah, they actually do. And the worst part is that you even see some pictures on Facebook and stuff. There's some people, there's literally a community of dumpster divers. That's what they're called. So they'll go behind these big stores, Sephora, all these, and then like, dive into their dumpsters and pick out items. So now what these brands are doing now is like pouring like all kinds of, like, substances so people don't get the. It's just so wild. It's unnecessary.

I had no idea about.

Yeah, it's the same thing with food, you know, like, like Starbucks and stuff like that. Sorry, Starbucks and stuff like that. They don't, they don't give, donate like their, their food. At the end of the day, they have to throw it away, you know, and it sucks.

That's. That's yeah, it's, it's cool. It's. I, I had no, I had no, no idea about that. But I'm curious. Like, I've seen the beauty industry gold like through, you know, highs and lows during the pandemics, mostly because, let's be honest, we're all at home. Nobody has the energy to even like, you know, I mean, I'm talking about myself right now like this.

Yeah, myself as well.

And you know, there's like days when I wake up in the morning and I'm like, damn, ain't nobody trying to look good today. I'm not trying to.

This is the first time I'm wearing makeup since like mid last week, I think.

Same here. I only wear makeup on podcasts and. But the thing is that we still take care of ourselves. Like, we're still gonna use a moisturizer, we're still gonna use lotion and, I don't know, hair product and so on. But like, I'm curious, how did you feel the effects of the pandemics? Because in the beginning, the sales, but then I thought it was a drop. So where, where were you?

Absolutely. Yeah. So there's actually a factor that I don't know if it's just a general industry term or just something that my friends about, my friends and I talk about, but it's called the honey months during the pandemic. So the honey months is basically when people had a little extra money, whether that's through stimulus, unemployment, or whatever it was that the government was giving. And people actually use it to purchase things that they didn't need. You know, it's like the government's like, hey, here's $600 for you to pay your rent. And they're like, yep, I'm gonna go shop. So the honey months were great. Like, we were seeing insane revenue numbers. Last June was our highest revenue numbers ever. And it sort of coincided with like stimulus and all of that and also with all the political climate that was going on in the US Last summer. So people needed something to feel good about. And everybody knows retail therapy, it actually does work. No matter what anybody says, retail therapy works. So people were purchasing more, but what we were noticing is that people were purchasing more self care items. So we're noticing people were buying our skincare fridges. People were buying more of skin care bundles. People were buying tools and things like that. Even candles, you know, and I don't know if you are, you know, I'm sure just people in this audience have read but like sales for candles skyrocketed like historical in 2020 because everybody was home. You know, you wanted to decorate your home. You wanted to have something cute, something that smells great. I've bought so many candles since last year, more than I usually would. And I also noticed that I was buying more from artisans, from small businesses, from small merchants. And that's, you know, more expensive. Like I just bought like a $38 candle yesterday. In 2019, I wouldn't spend more than $15 on a candle. Like, are you insane? That's so expensive. But because there's a feeling of it being a small business wanting to support during a pandemic and also it just being great hand made and poured candles. I'm spending more. So people think we're not spending more, but we are.

We're spending shitloads of money. I bought a whole bunch of useless stuff. I have a sneaker product problem. So I'm not really going that much anywhere. But I, I don't, you know, I don't spend that much money on clothes or whatever. But I have very expensive taste when it comes to sneakers. So I'm just buying sneakers. I'm just like, man, I'm feeling down today. Let me go on this. Let me get some Jordans to make myself feel. Oh my God.

Yeah. Sneakers are so expensive. They're such a crazy resale market.

And the problem in Romania, they're like, obviously Romania, you won't have the same quality as you would have from the uk. So I have to order from UK to come to Romania. Yeah, because the ones that are here, if you go to the retail shops here, they don't have the same quality of Nike as you would get it in the US or the UK because it's made for Eastern Europe. And of course, we are not as worthy to the world.

Now.

It's cool, it's cool, it's cool. But it's. I get it. And therapy with purchasing stuff and retail therapy is a very real stuff.

Yeah, retail therapy is great. It works. It really does work. And brands have definitely been milking it. Like, I'll be honest, like, we've used the skincare angle, like as a sales tactic. Like, we've done all of that. So it works.

No, I agree. I actually invested a lot more in skincare products and I have looked for very good stuff. But also, yeah, to make yourself feel better because you feel like shit. You're in lockdown, it's bad. And you're just trying to make it to comfort yourself. So what were some struggles that you guys have dealt with in the last year. We work with a lot of beauty brands and I think it was a struggle in a way because a lot of type of buyers appeared like people that purchase for the first time online, people that are new, that are not necessarily computer literate. So it was crazy, you know, because there was a lot of purchasing, but there was also a high ticket volume in customer support, a lot of phone calls and a lot of issues with the rumors. So how did you guys encounter that?

So I'll say the first thing that I noticed directly since the pandemic started is a higher ticket volume in terms of customer service. You know, usually like we have our loyal base who know our brand, who know what we're all about, but we had that huge wave of first time buyers, whether they're buying a subscription box for the first time or they're just buying online for the first time. We had a funny, not funny enough, disappointingly enough, we had higher chargebacks. So people just, you know, kind of taking advantage of the system and being like, okay, I'm going to purchase this. I know, I know I can't afford it, but my bank is going to give me back my money because it's a pandemic. So we had that. But other than that we definitely had issues with forecasting inventory because we would have a month where we would send like 500 extra boxes and then the next month we would send like 200 less. So it was a bit of a struggle. But what we're able to do was just diversifying platforms. So we actually got on Amazon subscriptions which they, which a lot of people don't know. Amazon has subscription box platform where boxes like myself, other boxes list their stuff on there. And we've been seeing really great growth with that. So that's been able to help us with like inventory levels to the point where Amazon at one point was growing faster in subscription numbers than my own website because we shut down ads. So another thing we did was shutting down ads because it was so uncertain, you know, it was so expensive to run ads, it was so noisy. Brands were bidding against each other because the only way they could market to people who were sitting on their phone all day, you know, is through these paid ads. It was really, really expensive. So we just had to hone in on referral programs, loyalty programs, all these kinds of things. We did a ton of organic reach, email marketing, boosted that up and we're still able to hit like, you know, 2020 sales goals. But this year, now that things have kind of like quieted down a bit. Definitely going to try ads again. They do well for us. But when, like especially in the summer of 2020, it was just so noisy in the ad space. It just didn't make any sense.

It's true. And the CPMs have grown like crazy, are insane.

It's just so like in 20, at the end of 2019, I think we're, we're spending like 27 to convert a customer. As of like end of summer 2020, I was seeing conversion costs of like 60 something dollars, like more than double. It was so insane. And I'm like, I can't afford that. You know, it's just. And that's another thing that some brands had to choose to do. You know, you kind of, you either choose profit or you choose growth. And in 2020, we chose profit because we didn't know what the year was going to look like and we got to keep our lights on and we got to pay the bills. So I had to focus on profit.

I like, you brought the great, you brought my favorite topic on because I like. Yeah, no, I, I actually talk a lot about customer lifetime value and customer retention. This is what I'm known for besides my shenanigans. And yeah. So I want to ask you because this, this is actually, you just jump in my super hill of topic. So tell me, how did you guys. And congratulations first of all for moving to a profit focused strategy because a lot of people in E commerce confuse actual growth with growth generating factor. So a grow generating factor is the revenue, which is great, but it's very expensive and it's very tiring to constantly chase these acquisitions when you're, you know, you're bleeding customers in the back. So you couldn't have done anything better for yourself. Especially because the subscription business depends on loyalty and retention and on customers relationships. So how did you, how did you approach, you know, this, you know, this movement towards retention? How are you, how are you, you know, building relationships with your customers? Share some cool stuff with us.

Yeah, so one thing we added kind of at the same time, well like about a few weeks before the pandemic started unrelated is customization. So we allow custom to pick 1, 2 items in their box so that they feel like they have a say in what they're getting. They do have a say in what they're getting because we do post spoilers before people get charged. If they don't like this, if they don't like a few spoilers they can skip, they can cancel. You know, most likely we prefer them to Skip. So we started doing customization which allows people after they get billed to pick between a few items that we offer. And that generally allows them to get things that work for their skin tone. And that's where the inclusivity part comes in. You know, I never want anyone who especially looks like me to get a product that wouldn't work for them. I'm a black founder and there's no way that any of my black customers would ever get a product that does not match them. It's just never going to happen. So add ons were, customization was great and then on top of that we added add ons. So add ons were lit have literally transformed our business in the sense that after you get billed there's a one week window where you get to pick items exclusive to subscribers at a crazy discount. So you can see discounts as, as steep as like 90, 70% off. And the point of that is to help us as a brand increase our, our average order value per customer, you know, our box is $34.99. We can't just cap it at that. If people are getting five products to try, they probably want to get more products already, right? So we show them items from either past boxes that were really popular and they can just re up on or we have partnerships with brands and tell them that hey, these are add ons. We'll cover your cost but we'll get customers to try these products from you. So for example this month our, our hero item was a $55 eye cream that on our add ons was 9 bucks. So that obviously sold out like within an hour of us putting in all the add ons. But people are like this is so incredible. But in reality that eye cream costs us like 250. So we're making a good amount of profit on the product. Customers have that perceived value that they're saving over 40 something dollars. And you know, it's just, it's just a win win for everyone. So this is something that people I feel like don't really do in E commerce it's that post purchase strategy. You know, you don't just stop after the customer purchase from you if they've purchased from you. If they've jumped the loop of understanding your website, that's probably low key, crappy. We all have a kind of crappy website. Well, let me just speak for myself.

I agree with you. I don't know about, I didn't see nothing bad but there's always something on a website.

Yeah, there's always Something on a website that customers speak on. You know, they, they've, they've jumped through those hurdles. They've jumped through the hurdles of understanding you as a brand, of trusting you as a brand, of giving you the credit card information. And you want to tell me that after they purchase from you, you're not trying to sell them more.

That's like to me.

It'S like money down the drain. It's money down the drain. And you, you know, and that's where like when you run ads as well, that's where your profitability comes in. Like you can see let's say a hundred dollar product, you spend I don't know, $60 on Facebook book acquiring that customer. After your cost of goods, your shipping, you're probably making I don't know, 12, $20 at most on the product. And then that's like versus $100. So you have those post purchase opportunities where people can, you know, buy more and just your, your profit margin per customer average order value increases. And the good thing about our add ons is that we advertise it as free shipping. It kind of is free shipping because it ships in the customer's box. But we, you know, from the weight obviously changes depending on what the customer orders. So it's a great, it's a win win for everyone, for us, for the brands, for the customers especially. And we always want to make sure that our customers are the biggest winners at the end of the day.

Yeah, I like that. Actually I think it's a really cool strategy because it gives you know, that sensation of control. You're also getting the element of surprise but you're also feeling like you did a good deal.

Exactly.

Yeah, I like that. And I think for subscription it makes sense a lot because I mean you have to build some sort of, you know, it's not only like the delightfulness and whatever, but it's also like the emotions that you create in people that you know and then I mean if they're happy with the product after you cannot have, you know, post purchase just be like, you know what? Better luck next time. Thank you for your business.

Yeah, you want recurring customers and it doesn't only have to add the, the concept of add ons don't only have to work in a subscription like for a one time product. What that would be is like a cross sell. Right. Or like a post purchase upstair. So what we have on our website on certain products, let's say someone buys like two eyeshadow palettes, will, you know, there's a. There's an app we use that that kind of bundles similar products. And, like, hey, since you already bought two, here's two more. One more for a discount. You know, it's like, if they're already gonna buy multiples, they might as well get a full bundle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's. That's true. It's true. And this is what I like about subscription versus one time in general. It's just that you. You can play more on the, you know, on the experience that you give. And I want to ask you, what about the unboxing? I. I need to, you know, I need to order from you guys to see exactly the whole experience. But what is the unboxing experience? Experience.

Yeah, so our boxing experience. Like, I don't have a box with me. I should have. But we have a. We have a pink box that's a staple box with, like, doodles on. On them that we got a designer to do. And it's just very simple. We have pink. Pink crinkle paper. We have bubble wrap in it, and we have the products, and we have our insert cart. Funny enough, there was a time where we kind of. What's the word? We kind of went down on packaging quality because we wanted to send more products. So there was. There was a really, really big palette that I was able to get right. But if we had put it in the box, first of all, we had printed, like, 10,000 boxes, and I really didn't want to print more boxes. So we're like, okay, what can we do? So we printed our box design on bubble bags, which would be able to fit the big palette and be able to still ship under first class, which is what we try to keep it at. For cost. Right. Because the difference between, like, first class shipping and priority shipping is like $3. It's ridiculous. Times thousands of customers. That's a lot of money. And customers still pay the same price in shipping, so it didn't make sense for us to ship it in the box. We got a few complaints. People were like, oh, I don't like the box. I don't like the bag. Like, it doesn't look good, but you get bigger products and more products. Right. So sometimes we do that just to give customers more products. But for the most part, we've always noticed that people like the box, so we'll continue doing that.

Yeah, I feel like the unboxing experience is something that really builds into the customer experience. And it's cool when people just.

Yeah.

And they film it and they post it Online.

Exactly. Oh, my God.

Then, yeah, it's cool. It's cool.

Box. Like the front. The. On our box, the front facing flap, it has our social media on it. So, like, whoever opens it, you know, you check. Once they take a picture, it's like, oh, try at. Try beauty box. Let me go check them out. So that's the whole point. Like pe. There's. There's such huge real estate in packaging that people don't take advantage of, you know. Same thing with our inserts and our inserts. At the back of it, we have a QR code where you can scan it with your phone that takes you to our referral program where you're like, hey, I just got my box. I love it. I want to refer a friend, because the first thing you think about when you like something is to share it with a friend immediately. We're giving you an opportunity to earn a discount towards your next box and give your friend a discount too. So that's the whole thought psychology behind it.

Yeah. And it's real because, I mean, it's a very. When you buy in the beauty industry, I think it's a mostly, like, very intimate experience. And I want to go back to something you said earlier. You know, you know, it's like this when you are. I have issues when I'm. I don't really buy cosmetics online, mostly because in Romania you have three colors. You have white, you have semi white, and you have. And brown, but it's like an ATVS brown. Sorry, Podcast. Sorry. But yes, the audience can. Can, you know, forget about my drop there. So when I buy online, even on Amazon, because I. I buy a lot of product from the US So via Amazon, because I don't find it here. And in Sephora here only, they barely introduced Fenty by Rihanna, which you can. Yeah, like, they barely. I mean, they are there, but you don't always find what you need. So until I get the foundation, I just give up. It's very hard. So what. How are you. How are you guys, you know, taking care of this to make people feel comfortable that, you know, the colors are gonna fit their well.

So first of all, like, in our box, generally, and most boxes, we don't send complexion products. The most complexion product we would send is like a blush or a bronzer. And we allow people to pick from these two options. Right. So this month we had a.

For.

We had a gold bronzer or we had like a more porcelain type. Sorry, a gold highlighter or a more porcelain type highlighter. And we also swatch these products on both skin tones. So we swatched the porcelain products on dark skin tone and the gold one on lighter skin tone. So people see, you know, sometimes, you know, you want like a gold look even if you're not like a deep, a deep skin tone person. So. But the first thing that we do above the customization allowing people to pick their shades is just making people feel included. So that's in the visibility of it. So if you go to our Instagram, you see different skin tones. You know, that's so important. I hate it when like if I go to a brand's Instagram page and I don't see someone who looks like me, I'm not purchasing from you because I don't know what it looks like on me. And that's so important. And same thing for the other flip side, you know, like if you for example, go on, on a page that only has, has dark skin tone people, you're probably going to be like, oh, this, how is this going to work on me? How's it going to look on me? We're, we're a visual species, you know, we need to see what it looks like. And it's, it's so weird to me that brands still don't do that with all that's going, whether it's the economic or political climate. It's so weird to me that brands still choose to be exclusionary. Like you can't exclude people. It's just not possible.

The reason, and I'm just going to keep it dead as real, the reason why I think this happens is because they don't have black people working in the company and they don't have people of all colors working in the company. So they have no one to be an advisor. That's why you see so many mess ups in the, you know, with the what's his name, not Fendi, the other guys with Gucci. You see all these brands that are doing really messed up stuff.

Yeah.

You know, different cultures but you know, black people got it the worst. And then you, and then you check in there, you know, when they look in their organizational chart and of course they don't have no one to advise them.

Exactly.

They like the black dollar, they like the Eastern European dollar, they like whatever dollars, the Hispanic dollars. But they are not hiring these people.

Yeah. For the most part most brands advertise to minorities without representing minorities. And in no way does that make any sense. You know, you can't capitalize off a certain type of people and not include them in the decision Making process. Like, it's. It's odd. There's like this huge brand in the makeup industry, obviously, in the beauty industry, obviously will not be disclosing their name. You know, they're like. Like a. They're like a spa and they target melanin women, but they don't have any melanin estheticians.

Yeah, it's so weird, like, how Sway, you know, like, you're like, yeah, exactly.

So it's just. It's just so many. Full pause. But another thing that we need to be careful about is that people need to realize that outrage, like, social outrage actually is a way for people to monetize. So brands will purposely do these things that will cause outrage. And you know what they say? No, no. Bad PR is still. Is still pr, right? It's still people talking about your brand. It's still someone in the middle of nowhere being like, oh, they were racist. You know what? Let me go support them, because I also.

Yeah, I'm racist too, you know, like.

So it is what it is.

Yeah, it's. It's not even. Like, in a way, I feel like from how I see it here in Europe is just like a very big ignorance problem. It's like a lot of people are not really aware of what the hell they're doing. And I think they just. Like, I used to work for a company. I used to work for a brand and customer support that were selling music distribution. And they were always. So for Black Friday, and I have no shame in saying this, for Black Friday, they were using someone that was black to promote Black Friday. I was like, do you know what Black Friday represents? I stopped it in the last second. And I was like, if you get the voice of reason from Eastern European, like me, like, what are you guys doing? You know, like, check the stats. And I stopped it in the last second because a lot of people, like, okay, I get the Black Friday is important in E commerce, but let's talk about what actually Black Friday was this in the history. And you're in their market, right?

Yeah. And that's why, like, there's really important movements. I don't know if you've heard of the pull up or Shut up movement. No, no.

Tell me about it.

Well, basically, it's a movement started by the owner of. Her name is Sharon. She's a Nigerian woman. I'm Nigerian too. And she's the owner of a brand called Uoma Beauty. And what she did, basically, basically is an organization that challenges all brands, not just in beauty, in the beauty industry. To, to show their percentage of staff by race. So there you are seeing people, you know, and, and not only that, she was saying that not only like your entire staff, but your executive staff. Like, we don't care if 90% of your warehouse workers are black. We want to know how many people who are executive executives who make decisions are black, Asian, East European, all of that. We want to know what that is. Because how can you call yourself a global brand? How can you call yourself a brand that, that sells to everybody, but you don't have a single person in your decision making process that represents, you know, like, we don't care if you're a warehouse staff is black or Asian or Asian.

It would probably be Eastern European because we are being known for being cheap to hire.

We don't, we really don't care about that. It's like, who are the people who are making decisions? And that really got brands to, you know, mobilize and hire, hire new people. Some people were making excuses that, you know, in their city there was like a low percentage of Asian people where there's a low percentage of this. But how can you say that? We all work from home now. It's, we're in a pandemic. You can hire virtual staff, you can hire staff that are working from home. So you have, there's, there's literally no excuse anymore to just not represent everybody.

It's it, you know what it is? It's like that, what bank was it that they were saying that they don't find talent? And I'm like, really?

I think it was, I don't. You know what I'm talking? Yeah.

Like, who does that? Like, who has, who has these people? Like, God is just like making anybody these days.

You know what? Above all, like, I always say this, that, like, we need to stop complaining about what people are not doing and mobilize ourselves. Like, I don't buy from certain brands just because if they're not inclusive, just because they don't have enough people that look like me, that's enough for me to not support them. In the middle of the BLM movement, a lot of apps that I use on my website were silent. They didn't say anything. Same thing for the Asian hate movement that's going on right now. I unsubscribe. I stopped working with them. Like, very simple. You need to put your money where your mouth is as consumers as well. Like, it's easy to complain, but you actually need to mobilize. And I always say this, you know, hit people where it hurts. And that's their. Your pockets. The only thing these people care about is their money. So stop giving them your money and they'll start listening to you. That's as simple as that. That's why strikes happen. That's why unions are a thing in workplaces. It's so that people keep corporations accountable. You will not keep them accountable. If there's. If brands are making 200 year over year, they don't give up. Bleep. If you're screaming to the heavens that they're not inclusive, but let that drop to 50 or even negative growth. Oh, they'll hire a DEI team. They'll hire a manager of inclusion. They'll. They'll start these conferences. They'll. They'll. They'll give money to the naacp. You know, like, they'll do all of that. It's performative. But as long as, you know, they're giving us their money, like, I don't care.

Yeah. Again, as I told you, everyone wants to show sensitivity, but no one is actually hiring black people or Hispanic people or, you know, whatever bio.

You know, above all else, there also needs to be an actual, you know, solidarity between minorities. Like, I know. Yeah. You know, we're getting. This is getting really deep. But, you know, there's some minorities that feel higher and more other minorities. And it's like, bro, it doesn't work like that.

We're.

We all are minorities to these other people.

For real. It's. It's so true. Oh, my God. Like, I know, right? Everyone thinks. Like, it's. But you know, what's the problem is, because I. I don't even know. Like, maybe this is. We should end because we're gonna stop doing. There's gonna be no E Commerce. But just like, one last thing that I want to say is that. Because the. How the systemic oppression works is to make some people feel higher than the others. But it's coming from the same source.

Yeah.

To create division into. In the society. So it positions some people higher while putting others lower. So it creates this, you know, fight against minorities. But at the end of the day, we're all up. And that's the reality, you know, like.

To tie back to. To E Commerce. At the end of the day, like, you have to be include if you want to get. If you. If you truly want to monetize and capitalize from people, why only try to target one, like, one group of people, one audience? You know, it's like. And it's the same thing with size. Size inclusivity is so important. And it's so weird. And same thing with disability inclusivity. Like, it's. It's just so weird. Like, if I go to a clothing store, you know, I'm like, I'm a medium. But if I go to a store and I'm shopping, I notice that they only go to, like, large. I'm like, even I don't really want to shop there because I'm like, this is weird, you know, like, why are you only offering small, medium, large? Like, like small, medium. Large is like a very small percentage of everybody else, you know, so at the end of the day, like, you want to target multiple audiences, and that means inclusivity and diversity, period.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think again, to tie back to tribe beauty box, I think it's. It's amazing the fact that you are carrying this mission and this, this legacy because they're not that many people that do it, unfortunately. Yeah, like this and the crazy, you know, and what's hurtful in a way, and it's mind blowing, is that the movement only comes from people of color. It doesn't come from people in power. You know what I mean? So I think, I think it's really amazing the fact that you are helping, you know, people feel included because beauty is intimate no matter what it is. So if you are not gonna make that the consumer feel safe, feel comfortable with you as a brand, they will not come back. And people really think about this thing. So I want to ask you something about. There's a. In the beauty industry, there's like two patterns of purchasing is like the mindful purchasing takes into consideration everything that we have discussed about, but it's also the mindless one. So I must assuming that you are focused on creating that mindful type of shopping with the consumers that you have, right?

Yeah. Yeah. And we do that. Like, we've done that since the beginning. Like, one of the first things that I. I always used to say when I first started is that I did not want to make this a monthly box because there's no reason anyone should be getting five new beauty products every month. Like, again, like back to my sensitivity to waste and just the earth being cleaner. There is no reason why you need 5 more products every month. Like, it's, you know, I'm a capitalist, but also like, I have a heart. So I'm kind of like dancing in the middle of, you know, get up, get five new products every 60 days. That'll get. Give you the chance to actually try these things. Like, there's some. There's some boxes out there, that sandbox every month. And I'll always see like customers saying, oh my God, like I have another box coming. I haven't even gotten a chance to open what I got last month because we're busy people. We're working long hours a day. Most people have kids. Most people have other things to do other than stay at home all day and try new makeup. You know, so that's always been my sensitivity from the beginning to, to get customers who are mindful and above the cadence that we send our box in. We are deep, deep, deep on education. Like we have, for example, next month we have a product, a face mask that has that, that has Matcha in it. And we did a whole campaign about the benefits of Matcha not only for your skin but for your body. Because I drink Matcha when I don't drink coffee, which is every day. But you know, it's so good for you. And we focus on education and that gives our customers more things to think about. You know, we don't just want more value. Here's a shiny new thing. It's great for you. It's, it's anti inflammatory, reduces your pores. It does. Like that's not what it's about. Like let's get into the granular things and the ingredients. And it's a shame that more brands aren't doing that. And it's almost like, why not? Is there something you're hiding? You know, like we're, I'm very, very careful in the products that I choose and pick into the, the box, which means that I have more to talk about with each product. It has substance, you know, but in everything across that, across even our webinars. Like we don't just focus on, on beauty products. Like we share things about, like even investing, you know, like how women can get ahead. I'm a big, big investor. I invest in so many companies and I want to make sure that every woman or man, whenever they want to, chooses to, to, to, to do better. You know, it's not. Beauty is, I feel like beauty is a surface level. You know, it makes us feel good. But what is what makes you feel good inside? What makes you feel good inside is when you have a safe, secure house to live in. You have your, your, your emergency fund, you know, like I don't want customers to, to purchase. And like, like sometimes we have customers email like this, this is a very clear example. We had a customer who emailed us and was like, hey, can do you mind like saving me a Box, because my disability check is coming next week, and I'll be able to purchase the box with that and in one hand. Like, some people would be like, oh, my God, great. Like, she's. She loves our brand so much, she'll use her last to shop with us. But me being who I am, I'm like, why would she do that? Like, if I was on disability, the last thing I would want to do is purchase things that I don't need. I would just get my essentials, you know, So I just want to make sure that people aren't just mindlessly shopping. You know, we want to capitalize, we want to make a ton of money, but we want to do it with people who actually have the funds to shop more and not people who are shopping with their last. That's something I'm very, very mindful of.

That's. That's a great example. And I think a lot of people. Yeah, I think. I don't. I didn't hear. I probably. And I talked to a lot of brands. I. I never heard this one before.

Yeah.

That'S. That's. That. That's. That's super. That's super cool for you to. To say. And I think people don't, you know, brands don't really think like a consumer or, you know, like, in a way, not all of them talking about the big ones, you know, because when you're a smaller brand and you, you know, when you're an entrepreneur and you know what's behind it and what's, you know, the ins and outs of a business, you sometimes you either forget where you come from or you carry your values and your, you know, your principles are, you know, in your brand value proposition.

Yeah.

So which. Which prompts me to ask you the question, what were some things that you really struggled with when you start the tribe? And, you know, like, what are some, you know, big struggles as a female entrepreneur that you encountered?

Yeah, so what I started, I had a lot of imposter syndrome. You know, I really felt like I didn't meet. I didn't. I wasn't supposed to be here. I don't have the skills to be here and stuff like that. But, you know, it's a. It's a tough industry. It's extremely competitive. The big competitors get millions of dollars in investment. Like, I've got nothing like that. But I think that above all, it's like, what's really helped my growth is just people being able to see. See that this is something that's moving from the heart. You Know, it's not something that just, you know, quick buck and you leave. If I need a quick buck, this is the last industry that I would work in. Like, I would do other things. You know, I do drop shipping. I do, like, so many other things. But when people do see the passion for what you have in your business, it fuels them and it also fuels you. Another thing that I really, really struggled with is just connections, you know, like, when I started the brand, like, I was fresh out of university. Like, I. I went to school for political science. Like, I had no clue what was going on, so I had to consume large amounts of information really, really quick. Thank God that I went to a school where I had like five essays to do every week. So I was used to doing that, you know, And I think that a lot of the struggles that I had internally, I had to just ask myself, like, if I was a man, like, would I have these problems and sometimes not, you know, like, I have a couple guy friends that are also in the E commerce space, and they just do whatever they want, like, without even thinking about it, you know, they're like, oh, yeah, man, I'm gonna try this. And I'd be like, thinking things over and over and over again. And, you know, not to make it a gender thing, it's definitely also more like a psychological thing. You know, I've worked with therapists. I've worked with so many people who've helped me overcome some of these problems. But it's really important to know that you belong where you want to belong. Like, there's nothing like who's who, who says you can't do what you want to do. You know, it's, it's, it's not possible. Like, you can do anything you want. Like, nobody can put a stop on you except for you. And, you know, when I was able to, to overcome that, I. I've noticed so many new stripes. You know, I've been able to talk to people more comfortably. Like, when I started the business, I think I was like 23, three or something like that, or 22. So talking to people who were like, 37, like 40, 45. I didn't know what, what to say. Like, I would read emails over and over again. And also I was very, very apologetic. Like, I'd be like, oh, my God, thank you so much. Like, in my emails and stuff like that. Now I'm just like, hey, no, no, no, no. Okay, cool, great. Let me know when you're. When this is done. And again, like, I work with people that are older than me in terms of like, I pay people to do things within the business that are way older than me. So sometimes I'm a bit, but not, I'm a bit insecure about that. Like, oh, there's like again I came. I grew up in a very traditional home where you respect your elders and stuff like that. So I had a bit of that. But I'm like, I'm the boss. Like I don't care what my age is. So I'm not going to apologize for your fuck up. I'm absolutely going to point it out and I'm going to expect you to fix it. And also I say no all the time now. When I started, I was so scared of saying no now. And I, and the thing is that now I say no and I don't give an explanation. I. It's, it's just no, it just doesn't work. It just doesn't work for a business. Before if I would like talk to, to a merchant or like an app that that's trying to work with us in an agency, I would write a whole email about like why doesn't. It's not a good fit and things like this now it's just like, hey, at this moment, great fit, you know, we'll keep your contact in saved in case anything comes up and point blank, that's it. Yeah, you know, I'm not going to apologize for not for things not working. So those kinds of things are stuff that I focused, I struggled with. And it's funny because a lot of these things were actually personal problems. People don't realize how much personal development goes and ties directly into the projection of your brand. There was a time where I was so engulfed like in growing the brand and focused in that that I stopped learning. And I would notice like no matter what new shiny strategies I would try, the business wouldn't grow. And that's because I wasn't trying and taking time to learn to be in tune with industry trends, new things going on in the industry because I was just working, working, working. So now like two times a month, week, I don't do any work. All I do is I, I do webinars, I read, I catch up on what's going on in industry and I've noticed that one, my life is way easier and two, the business has been growing, growing because I actually have time to learn, you know, and also like not working 24 7. I don't know who said if you want to, if you want to, it's definitely a guy. If you want it hard enough. Like, you sacrifice, like, what you. Hell no. Like, if I have to sacrifice my health, my family, my friends, my myself for this business, I don't want it. Because the point of having a business is to. Is to elevate your life, you know, is to break through things and have an easier life, not to have a harder life. Like, who wants that?

I relate 2000% what you said because I dealt with all those things, and I just. I want to say something cool. So I'm reading this book right now. It's called Dark Horse. And it's basically about people that are moving outside standardization. Because standardization means you're gonna be put on a path, and you have to follow that path. And this is the way you can achieve status and fulfillment. But people that achieve fulfillment before from stuff like family, like love, like, you know, belief in God or other stuff, and then the. The part that they have to achieve in life as a professional is just like the plus or the extra. Because at the end of the day, you know, it's if you ain't right within, how you can win, right? You cannot win if you're not right within. So I used to think that if I don't work 247 every day, I'm not worthy.

Yeah.

And I was like, guilt tripping myself, you know, in. Yeah. Like, I was like, damn, she's sitting. And I'm like, I got kids, you know, I got a husband. I have a house. Like, I have other stuff to do. But here I am on this laptop.

Trying to figure out probably not being productive. That's the weird part. It's like, yeah, I just sit on my computer and I'm like, what am I doing here? Go to the couch, you know, like, it's like, I'm not. I've done all my work. It's like, what am I sitting here? But because sometimes, you know, like, I'm an early riser, I usually start my day around 6:30. And honestly, like, if I'm focusing from 6:30, like, no distractions, I'm done work at like 12:31. Except if I have meetings. So sometimes I sit and I'm like. And I talk to my friends. I'm like, oh, what are you doing? They're like, oh, yeah, just taking meetings. I'm like, they're like, oh, what are you doing? I'm like, oh, like, I don't know, feeling guilty. So I get back on my desk and I'm not doing anything, but I just feel guilty that I'm done working. And then I just do random stuff. But it's like I truly am done everything I need to do. And the reason why I'm done everything I need to do is because I have a roadmap. And that's why it's important to have a roadmap. I have a roadmap of everything I'm going to do in the week, everything I'm going to do in the month, everything I'm going to do in the quarter and anything else is additional. But once I finish a project, you're done working, like you don't have to work 24 7. So sometimes I finish work at 1pm, I take a two hour walk, I run in the middle of the day. You know, I cook extensively. Like I do what I need to do and like I'm such a happier person. When I used to work 24 7, I hate, I hated my business. And like this is something that a lot of founders don't talk about. But there are times where you hate your business, you hate your customers, everything ticks you off, you start having panic attacks and that's when you need to step back, you know, you need to be healthy. So I like, I always say now like I just want to start soft life, you know, like the whole reason of starting this, taking a risk of not having a corporate job, not having like the standard. And there's nothing wrong with corporate jobs. I always say this. There are people who are supposed to be entrepreneurs and there are people who supposed like I would, my business wouldn't be running if my customer service staff wasn't so great. My business wouldn't be running if the person who does our marketing isn't so great. We need a mix of everything to work. And that's why I never shame. And you should. No one should ever shame corporate jobs. And if it works for you, do it like you have a stable salary. You have money coming at the end of the month. If I don't hit my numbers, I'm not getting no money. It's, it's like it's very simple, you know, so you know, it's, it's a whole world and it's, it's, you know, it is what it is.

No, but it's true. It's like it's no shame to work a 9 to 5. It's no shame to work in corporate. It's just that everyone is built in a way. Yeah, exactly. It's just like everyone is built as they are and everyone is working so hard. But I guess like the main Takeaways here is to stop sometimes and take time for yourself and smell the roses. And I said this in a podcast before, I was like, if you don't make time in your life and if you don't clean up your act in your life, you don't make space for. For other blessings to come. Because if you want blessings to come, where are they gonna come if you don't have any space? Your mind is always, you know, cluttered.

Yeah. And the thing about E commerce is that it's 247 your website. You don't shut down your website like it's when you're sleeping, there's sales going on. So are you going to be a strategic person and put things in place for, for that to work without you, or are you going to make sure that you have to make every decision? You know, it, it just, you just have to choose what you want to do in life. And the whole point of E commerce is to be able to make money when you sleep. That's what we all say. Even the stock market. The stock market closes. E commerce doesn't close, you know, so why not be strategic and focus on making something, on building something that's efficient versus something that needs you at every moment of the day.

Yeah, of course. Because if it needs you, it means it's not working good. Because you have to be there all the time. You need to learn to scale outside yourself. And that's actually the win of being an entrepreneur. The moment when you manage to scale outside yourself. So that's exactly.

And do other things. Because if you like, I'm already building my next company. Like I'm like I'm my work here.

I was about to ask. We are right now the last day of this quarter and this is my almost last question for you. How did you did in this first course quarter and what are your plans for the next?

Yeah, so this quarter for me was a lot of cleaning up. And this is I guess, something that people don't do. I took like two months just clean up stuff like that. Like I just had like apps, for example, on the website that just didn't do anything. Our referral program was kind of wonky. Like it's something not, you know, you'd find like one random coupon code in the back that's been inactive for like a month and you forgot about it. Especially when you're one person. Like, you know, one person leader, team. So a lot of cleaning up, a lot of cleaning house. Hired. I hired someone to do social media two weeks ago. So she's been running that. She's a champ at that. And, like, I have way less things to do now, which I love, because I can do other things. So I took three months to really focus on what are the things that I'm not good at, what are the things that we need and hired for that. And now, like, I can do everything else I want to do.

That's good again. See, this is how you make space for blessings. And what is the next business? What? What?

Working on a game, which is so funny.

Why? Tell me. Tell me why I'm working on a card game.

So when it's ready, I'll send it to you.

Oh, my God.

Yeah, it's just something that I, like, I use all the time with my friends, like, jokes we tell each other all the time. And, like, I'm building at. Into a big card game. So I was actually up last night talking to manufacturers and stuff in China because, you know, like, when you're starting, you can't afford US Made. Canada made. Yeah.

But, you know, anyway.

Yeah, so I, you know, to get it on Amazon, to get an Indigo, to get in bookstores and stuff like that.

That's awesome.

See how it goes.

You need to show me what game you're.

You're gonna love it. It's fun. You have the personality for it. It's so much fun. It involves alcohol, so it's even better.

I'm on live, and I cannot deny work and for nothing when it comes to alcohol, but, yes, I'm in. Awesome. Well, thank you. We.

We.

We. We reached the end. This was the most refreshing episode I did, because.

Thank you.

I needed this. So my. It's like, I did this for you, but for me. But for you, but for. For me.

I'm glad you feel that way. Yeah. You know, I love having these conversations, and I think that, you know, it's great to talk about e commerce, it's great to talk about business, but there's so many other things that matter along with it. It's a whole ecosystem. And, you know, and, like, for me, like, I have some epic, like, I. I'll listen to, like, a very technical business podcast, and then sometimes, like, I'll just listen to a fun podcast learning about, like, who a founder is, like, what they do outside of their business, you know, and it's. It's very refreshing. It gives a balance. So I feel like this episode was, like, a good balance of both. You know, businesses are human beings. Businesses have people, and they are who they are. And so you have to. People have to remember, especially customers. Customers forget that businesses are run by human beings with emotions.

Yeah. That's why I wanted to do this podcast, because I was tired of the sausage fest at E Commerce is. I was tired about. This is how I call it. It's a. It's a sausage.

Yeah. It's like.

It'S my podcast, so it's what it is. And it's. I was tired because I was trying to get on podcast myself to promote our business and what we're doing. And, you know, like, no one would want the Romanian woman that this. You know, where's Romania? And it's like I said, okay, cool. So I'm just gonna do my own podcast. So what I did was I only. I have, like, a few male, you know, you guess that came. But my podcast is, like, 85% women.

Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Because I wanted to put women first. And, you know, I put some shine on women because no one else is doing it. So if I had to do it, that's. That's. That's how it went. So I'm just happy to. I mean, my. My. The scope of my podcast is not to talk about tech or strategies or whatever. I just want to talk about the human being. Because, you know, at the end of the day, we are so lost in the hustle that we forget that we're people. And, you know, I always use this quote from Gucci. It's good to have sauce, but it's very bad to get lost in the sauce. And a lot of us are getting lost in the sauce every day.

We are. We are. And, you know, like, it's. It's all about, you know, it's all about the hustle culture. You said it's. For example, like, I stopped, like, I. I had, like, 2019. I stopped going to networking events. Like, 2017 to 2018. I was a. I was a serial networker. Like, any network event in Toronto, Like, I would go there, and it was just so stupid because, like, you would meet people, and the first thing they ask you is like, hey, so what do you do? Like, what do you mean? Like, what do I do? Like, you're looking at a human being. Are you going to give me a label and put me in a box? Depending on who I am or what you. What I'm doing, you know? Exactly. And back then, I had just started my business, so I would talk about, and I would just see, like, their energy level just drop, like, oh, and then they'll start already, like, looking at, like, other people. In the room to talk to, and I'm like, what the hell? Like, you're talking to me. Like, that's so disrespectful. So I stopped going to networking events. I. I barely take, like, any, like, engagements and stuff like that. It depends. I'm very selective about that because, you know, some people, like, hey, you know, we want to have you on our Instagram live.

For what?

Like, it's. It's. It's exhausting, you know? And people. I know people see other people as stepping stones, and I hate that. I hate that so much. So, like, when I'm even with my friends, like, I always tell them, like, they're like, oh, how's the business going? I'm great. And I change topic because I want to be your friend. Like, I don't want to hang out. And we're talking about my business. Like, I do that all day. Let's talk about other things. Let's talk about ridiculous things.

Yeah.

You know, so even, like, one of my friends, like, listen to my podcast and stuff like that, I feel so weird because I'm like. Like, you don't know me. Like, you don't know me.

In this.

Like, serious, like, suit, you know? You know me as, like, who I really am. Like, I'm silly. I'm fun. So. So, you know, people. People have to. You don't have to seem so serious all the time. Like, I have a Twitter, and, like, my Twitter is full of jokes. Like, and people know that I have a business.

I'll follow you on Twitter right now. Hold up.

I deactivated yesterday, but I will reactivate just to follow you back.

Okay. I added you. I added you on LinkedIn. Yes.

Yeah, I have you on LinkedIn. So LinkedIn. I'm sure you noticed I don't post anything because I hate LinkedIn.

You will. You will like my LinkedIn. I'm trolling massively on LinkedIn. I'm like. I'm. Trust me, you will see my post on.

Yeah. You know, so people are like, oh, my God. Like, you're retweeting this, like, you know, like a. Kind of like a dark humor joke. They're like, oh, but you have a business.

And so I cannot be a human being. Right? And in fact, my post today on LinkedIn was, what are y' all fake caring about today? And you know where that comes from? And people were like, commenting and commenting. My job, my clients.

Yeah, it's always the same, like, four, like, sentences. I have the honor to. I have the privilege to, like, I'm.

Humbled and blessed, bro. Like, I met a lot of people on LinkedIn. I mean, it's cool. It depends on who you're networking with because I have a full network. But also, you know, it's always gonna be those people that are really virtual signaling themselves for the smallest that they do. People that they're beating themselves up for.

The everything, you know, tooting their own horn. But you know what? Like, we need a mix of everything. Yeah, I'm, I'm big on like laughing at people and especially laughing at myself. So hopefully, you know, I hope people like that keep doing that because it makes my day. Like, it's just so funny to me.

If you don't laugh at yourself, I think you really have problems with, you know, because if you cannot, like, look at your own fuck ups and, you know, look beyond your fuck ups, that there's not no growth from there. And this is what really trips means. Like, I have the balls to like, take myself, you know, not so seriously all the time. But that doesn't mean I'm not gonna, you know, be very good at my job and help you with your story, whatever I do. So like, you know, I just like maybe like a year or so ago, given all that happened for us minorities in general, I just stopped, I stopped code switching.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I don't code.

Yeah, I used to, I used to. And I was like, hey, how, how are you all doing? You know, I don't even sound like that. Yeah, like, I don't sound like that.

Yeah. And another thing is like people pronouncing your name properly. I used to allow, like, kind of let it go for people to like mispronounce my name. But now I don't, like, I don't do that anymore. If I can pronounce John, you can pronounce my name.

And I don't care your name. That's why I asked you, because I have respect, because I know how it is. And I always ask people if it's not like, you know, obvious, I got it. Because, you know, a lot of people would probably Americanize your name, but I don't want to.

Or the people who would like, try to say the name and then they just don't. They're like, ah, never mind, let's move on. Like, no, that's. What do you mean, never mind?

That's my name exactly. No, no, I don't, I'm not even gonna try.

No, no try. I'm gonna wait here until you get my name properly. Simple.

Yeah, it's what it is. And I'm lucky right now that my. I have an American name that because my husband is American and people have. I don't have issues to, you know, to say it, but it's what it is, man. It's. It's life, I think, you know, it's just based an opportunity for everyone to be who they are. We just gotta make sure that, you know, we attract the people that help us grow and make us better instead of people that are always, you know, trying to feel the light.

That's why I call my company Tribe Beauty Box. This is a tribe of people who like us, who are like me. You know, it's like some people, it's like, oh, I don't want this. Cool. That's not for you. It's not. And you're not. You're not for me, I'm not for you.

Cool. Yeah. And I think we should normalize this the that not everyone is for everyone and anything is for everyone, and that's it. Like, we should just move on and, you know, it's what it is.

Yeah.

But thank you. This was really fun. I needed this. I know.

I feel like we're friends as well.

Yeah, exactly.

For having me. You're awesome.

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