Ep. 44: Mailbag Episode: How to Boost Your Book’s Online Presence

Welcome to the Pub Date Podcast, the show where two book broads discuss what should happen before, during, and after your book publication date. Brought to you by Broad Book Group with your host Vanessa Campos and Jen Dorsey.

Welcome to the Pub Date Podcast. Vanessa, hello, how are you? Happy Friday.

Happy Friday! I'm doing pretty decent. There's a lot of work to be done at the BBG offices, but you know what? I like taking a break hanging out with you.

I know, right? I feel like we've been very head down on all kinds of things because we have fall books coming out. I see some behind you for all of our, our tens of YouTube watchers. We have some books back there., and we're getting ready to put a very big book to bed, at least to the printer, uh, hopefully today, possibly tomorrow, um, putting last minute touches on that.

So things are exciting here, very exciting. Um, it's— and then, you know, we're rolling and dealing and having conversations, and I think that one of the big things is, you know, the questions that come in through, um, through DMs and the info@broadbookgroup.com, where if you do have questions you can always send them in, but we've been getting a lot of, uh, interesting questions that we think that we should probably make a podcast episode about.

Absolutely. I love these kind of potpourri mailbag Jeopardy-style shows that we do because there are— there's just so much to learn. And I feel like every time we do, you know, a 30— 20, 30-minute episode about one topic, it just spins out, you know, a bunch of other topics that we should do shows. Right. So For sure. Today we're going to hit some of the highlights of those. So one thing that we have talked about multiple times in the past is book covers. Yes. Speaking of the beautiful ones behind you. We know the importance of it because that's what we do every day and our designers know the importance of it as well. But one question that we had was, I've heard a lot about the importance of a good book cover, but what about the back cover? Cover. Does that matter? Is it important? What's the scoop with the back cover of a book?

I think the back cover is just as important as the front cover. And I would, I would say that if I'm going to rank them, it's going to be— okay, all right, so if you're on Amazon, it's going to be front cover, back cover, and you don't even consider the spine. But if you're in a bookstore, consider the spine, then the front cover. Than the back cover because the spine— most of the books on the bookshelf, like physical bookshelf, what's going to stand out is that spine. And I love it to be something striking, something that is not used, um, right now it's not in fad. I like going against the grain a little bit. Um, you know, and when you pick up a book, think about the consumer, pick up a book, you go to the COVID you look at the title, You like the title? Tell me more about it. The subtitle. Let's talk about the subtitle. So the title can be something like, okay, for example, our, our April book, the title is The Shift. If you were to pick it up, you want to know more about the shift, right?

You do. Absolutely. What am I shifting?

What are you shifting? And that's where a subtitle comes in. And I think that that's the key to any good book cover is making sure that a, your cover is beautiful, visible at 25% for Amazon, but also that you have enough content on your subtitle, that your subtitle makes sense and it delivers what the value of the book is going to be.

Yeah, absolutely. I think so too. It's, it's the explainer. It's a, you know, the hook is the title, it grabs you. The subtitle says, and here is the why. Here's why you want this or you need it, or here's how it's answering your problem or your question. Right.

So for our April release, The Shift, the subtitle is Scale Your Business and Multiply Your Wealth Without Sacrificing You.

Ooh, I wanna do that. Cool. Okay.

Right. We're done 24/7 grinding. It's not gonna happen anymore. We need to think smarter and work smarter, not harder. So then it comes to the back cover, right? So what is important on the back cover, Jen?

Well, first of all, I like the, the tagline at the top. That is very important because that tells me yet even a little bit more. It draws me in a little even more than the subtitle. Then the back cover copy, I think, is the next big thing because that really drills down to the big takeaways of why you want to buy this book. It's the why, right?

And so we're going to keep on with The Shift, you know, shameless promotion here, but I have it right in front of me. All right, so the headline on The Shift is, here's the truth. Your business can scale without sacrificing your time, family, or health. And I think that's like everyone who is an entrepreneur, an intrapreneur at any business, at any larger company, we're grinding all the time, especially now that we're like in the off— in our home offices 24/7. It's kind of harder to get away, but this book is—

that's the promise.

And the reality that you can actually do this. And I think that that leads you in, you know, in design-wise, in a design world, if you work with an amazing book designer, they're going to know how to take that image or that big statement on the back cover and have it stand out so that you want to keep reading. So it's this beautiful art direction that you're going to have to do. And we think that covers are beautiful, even the business book covers, because it does something. It attracts your eye and it has you leading down the book so that you read the entire thing. You see all the bullet points. But let's talk about— okay, so that's in-store. But why is it important to have not just a well-designed cover, but a really great cover copy and back cover copy for digital retailers like Amazon and Barnes Noble?

Ooh, ooh, ooh, I know.

Yes, you, Jen.

Yes, thank you. Longtime listener, first-time caller. It's because that translates into what the retailer copy ends up being. So when you're scrolling through that product page on Amazon or B&N or Bookshop or wherever you like to shop, you're going to read a full description of the book. If it's not exactly word for word for the book cover, at the very least it's going to draw from that book cover and tell you more. So yes, I, I don't think most people click through the look inside to look at the back cover. I mean, you can because it's usually included, but they usually read that retailer copy. That's their back cover copy experience. That's akin to what you would do when you're in a physical bookstore.

Yes, I agree. And I think that there's additional content there that we need to talk about, which is Boom, boom, boom, the metadata.

What? We talk about that all the time.

Metadata is our friend.

It must be important.

Yeah. And the metadata is really our friend because Amazon and other retailers, what they do online is that they are sneaky little spies and they like to see how people are shopping for books that are like yours. So they're looking at phrases. They're not just looking at, you know, the name of the author. They're not just looking at the title because you might not know this specific author or this specific book, but it's the content that we've written on the COVID the subtitle that will help draw in a larger audience. So say for instance that you don't know who Kim Walsh Phillips is. Shame on you. You should know.

You should.

But you are interested in, in, you know, learning how to spend more time in your sweet spot. You want to become a market leader and the go-to authority in your niche. You wanna make health, family, and fun a priority rather than an afterthought. Those are all things like, those are top of mind things. So when you're looking for a book to help you do that, you're typing in certain things.

Mm-hmm.

That are, if you're thinking about it, the way that you talk, right? And it's not just like book about this, it's book to help me do X or book to help me solve Y. So you gotta think about those things and how your consumer is, is thinking about these problems and what these solutions in your book are and how you're gonna communicate them on paper and on your website, or book retailer website.

Right, absolutely. I think, you know, put yourself in the mindset of your reader and think, what is the problem and how am I solving it? And that can help drive you towards some of those keywords and phrases that are important. So for example, if I'm Kim, I'm thinking, okay, one of the, one of the X's that this solves for is work-life balance. Okay, I'm going to make work-life balance one of my keyword phrases, right? Or have more time to myself, or manage family and work, right? So I think all of those kinds of phrases are related. So you just kind of almost need to do like a, like a mind map or like a brain tree. Come up with a few major, like 3 or 4 things that this book does or that it tries to solve or that it tries to answer. And then just start shooting off little branches everywhere and think of every keyword or key phrase that associates with those 3 or 4 main ideas that you can use as keywords. It's not that different from writing the good old traditional 5-paragraph essay where you're kind of mapping it out. It's a similar thought process. Yes.

And you know, there's a good chance that a lot of these, um, hints and clues, and you've already have them in your book. So take a look at your table of contents. Do your table of contents reflect what each chapter is going to be from a perspective of you talking to another human being? Exactly. I think that's really, really important. We'll get into AI maybe one day and why, you know, AI is cool, but it may not be the best opportunity to write a book. Don't write a book with AI.

Please don't. Please don't.

So I said it, you know, I said it in a moment of websites and all the websites, but I think a lot of people forget, you know, when you're doing a book, you think, okay, the book is out there and the retailers are gonna do all the work. They're gonna do all the work and we're gonna include all the metadata. But what about a webpage, a splash page for your book on your website? Or if you don't have a website, you make one.

Yeah, you kind of need it. Yes, I think that's absolutely a must-do. And that ties into this whole conversation about discoverability and, you know, getting a better footprint for your platform and all that good stuff. I would say if you already have an existing website, you know, you're a speaker or you're an expert in your field, which if you're writing nonfiction you absolutely should be, otherwise you maybe shouldn't be writing the book, um, you know, you should, you should absolutely put a landing page that's just for the book on that site. If you don't have a website yet, or if you're still kind of in the early stages, yes, just a simple splash page, landing page to direct people there, then to also direct out to retailers is something you, you absolutely need to do. And that also helps your searchability and your discoverability, right?

The more content that's out there for your book that matches as much as possible to the Amazon and Barnes Noble and Bookshop data, the better. Um, you got to think about the way that Google matches everything across, you know, you gotta think about the spider webs that are in the internet that are making the cobwebs happen so that everything talks to each other.

Mm-hmm.

And do it sooner rather than later because from what our experience has been is that the longer your website and webpage is up, the better chance of it actually ranking and getting traffic into their algorithms. And by there, I just mean the ethos that's out there. I don't, I have no idea how Google works. But the longer that it's out there, the easier it is for people to start seeing and searching for it. And those keywords start helping your book page or your splash page rank higher in, you know, it, it, it will likely show up on page 1 or 2 versus page 52 of your Google search.

Exactly. And, and I wouldn't, say that you shouldn't put some money behind it too. Uh, you know, put some money behind ad dollars on search, on Amazon. Speaking of which, um, a couple things adjacent to this for discoverability. A, you need to claim your author page on Amazon. As soon as your book is in the metadata and it's showing up on Amazon, go claim your author page. It's easy to do. We can drop in the show notes where to go for that. There's just a simple Amazon author page website. You go through, you link yourself to it. You have to do that. Your publisher, if you have a publisher, can't do that for you because you are the controller of your own personal Amazon account, and that's what it will ultimately link through. Um, but I think you need to do that and then also sign up for, um, for an Amazon Ads account. And again, if you have a, have a publisher, they can help you do that or do it for you on your behalf. That, that they can't do on your behalf, the author page they can't. But once you get into that Amazon Ad account You can kind of tinker around with setting up ads for your book, and one of the things that you can do is go in there and select keywords that are associated with the ads that you run. So that's— that kind of does double duty there. A, it helps you run Amazon ads more effectively, but it also shows you what keywords are working in their algorithm, which you can then put into your metadata, you know, with your publisher.

Yes, I always forget about Amazon Author Central accounts. Those are so crucial. So crucial. Amazon, I feel like, I mean, I don't know if they were going to come out and say it, but I feel like Amazon favors authors who have their author pages ready and set to go.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, so let's say this is a first-time author and they're ready to go. They've got a good cover, they've got great copy because they worked with, you know, a team like Broad Book Group, uh, but they're, they're right. And, and you're, you're ready, you're going, you've got your Amazon Ads account going, but you don't know where to start. What are some tips, do you think, that an author, you know, other than setting up their keywords? I think my, my recommendation would be to see what your competition is doing.

Yes, absolutely. Because if, if online retailers are similar in any way— and they're similar in many ways, but a big one is they will link your books to books that are like yours, that are in the same content area, basically books that are competitive or in concert with your book. So yes, I think you— we've said it many times on the show, you need to become a student of your category. Um, that's just wise to begin with, because you don't want to go out there and publish a book or pitch a book that has already been done. Uh, you need to be unique and have a unique selling proposition. But, but especially for the marketing piece of it, I think getting what we call in the business comp titles is really important. Um, not everybody thinks that they're a special, magical, unique unicorn, and you are, you all are. But when it comes to pitching your book, it really does have to be a special, unique, magical unicorn, and that it's got to either address a new topic or address it in a way that's never been done before or counterbalance, you know, a narrative that's already out there. So the way that you figure out how to position yourself uniquely in that way is to see what everybody else has done. And I assure you, the things that you're thinking of for your book have probably been done. So that helps you not only— it helps you from day one. It helps you hone a book proposal or, or figure out how you're going to structure the book all the way up to the point of marketing. How can— how am I going to market myself differently, right?

Exactly. And I think that, um, it's quite all right to take a look to see, have a running list from the time you start writing your book, doing the outline, even having that brainstorm, like, okay, what other books are out there? And like Jen said, be a student of, of the topic. Go out and buy those books, read those books, keep a running list of, you know, take a look at Amazon. How does Amazon categorize them? Are they ranking number selling one in a certain category versus another one? Is there a— and then dive into that category. You never know because Amazon is the World Wide Web of all things books, sadly. But then also I really do like Amazon. I have a conflict of Amazon. I'm sorry.

We have mixed feelings, yes, but it's the discoverability site, right? It just is.

It really is. You know, when you walk into a bookstore, you have the one-on-one with somebody who's there like, hey, I'm looking for this. Oh, I don't have this, but I do have this other one. It's just kind of like, oh, you might like this. It's that personal touch. Amazon is less personal, but they're watching you, so they probably can have a good guess as to what other people are doing, which is really good for marketing purposes. Because once you get into a category, then you're gonna start seeing books that are ranking in the top 10, the top 20, that day, that hour, et cetera. But it gives you an idea of kind of like going back to that mind map. You start with one competitive author.. And then you start seeing that they're competitive authors and they're competitive authors. So it gives you an idea of like where to start looking if you are first time doing this, need a list of keywords, need a list of categories.

Mm-hmm.

And you're starting to see like, okay, this author is, is similar to me and it's not, it's competitive. So we're not saying the same things. Or maybe they're complimentary. And that's another opportunity for partnership.

100%, and, you know, going back to my academic roots, one thing that we always learned in grad school in my PhD program was, okay, lots of things have already been said about the thing that you are writing about. How do you enter the conversation and be a valuable part of that conversation? And I think maybe that's a very good and positive way to look at competition. You don't want to go out there guns blazing saying, I'm the best and all these other books suck. That's not the way to go. You know, it's— yes, it's competitive. Yes, the marketplace is competitive, but it can also be, as you mentioned, complementary. And so if you go in with the mindset of, I have a unique thing to say, it's similar to X, but it's different from Y, and here's why it's important, and here's how we can all play in the sandbox together. I think that's a really good way to look at competitive titles, because when you go out and you're either selling them to a buyer or if you're, you know, trying to find a publisher and pitch it, that's the thing that they're going to ask. They're going to say, okay, where does your— where is your niche? Where do you fit in here? So think of it in that way, and you'll have a lot of really strong, productive things to say about how your book is different, right?

And if you're sitting there and thinking, my book has never been done, there's no book out there like this, there are books X here but nothing like my book, I suggest you stop and go read another book because there is likely a book out there that's like yours. You just haven't found it yet. And that's a wonderful thing. And you know, about Amazon too, is that they have all of these books at your fingertips. You can find a book that's like yours. But if you are dead set that no book is like yours, take a pause, take a breather, and reconsider what you're doing.

Absolutely. And, you know, speaking about that collaborative complementary piece, that works in your favor with digital retailing because, you know, your people are going to search for books that may not be yours, but your book may then pop up on that. You may also like this, um, kind of ad. And so it's, it's good to, to play well in the sandbox with others, for sure.

Oh yeah, good to play in the sandbox with others. And don't be afraid, like, if your book talks about, um, We, I, I was working on a different client and they have a book about warbirds, which AKA are planes that were used in, in wars, you know, from history in World War I, World War II. And the book was releasing around the time of Top Gun.

Nice.

So it kind of like matched up. So we tried a little bit of keyword searching through that and, and it ended up doing okay. Not the best obviously because we were competing with Top Gun merch and hats and all of that stuff because everybody else else's. Sure. You know, if there's something that is, is in the media right now, that's a really good opportunity to attach yourself to it. And I'm not saying don't do it, but if there is a big name out there that has released a book like yours, might want to keep that in your keywords and, you know, try to run an ad against that, against that book on Amazon. There's a good chance that you'll populate and, you know, people will discover you that way.

Absolutely. Yeah, don't be afraid of those sponsored ad tags that you see when you do a book search and the top 2 or 3 books say sponsored. Um, there's nothing wrong with that. All that means is that someone's putting ad dollars behind it, and why shouldn't that someone be you?

Exactly. Spend the money. And then it's not— you think that it's overwhelming, but it really is— you can set your own, uh, you can set your own budget for the day. You won't go over X amount of dollars per day. And it's interesting, you learn a lot more about your categories that way than you would ever, you know, just by reading the books. It's really getting into the nitty-gritty. And I realize that's not for everybody. There are people out there that can help you with that. Reach out to us at info@brodbrookgroup.com. We can put you in the right direction for Amazon Ads.

Yeah, absolutely. We are very lucky to know people who know what they're doing when it comes to this. I only know enough to be dangerous and minimally dangerous at that.

Right, within budget, daily budget.

Yes, right. It's super fun to play with though, and if you are a data nerd, you will love it. I mean, you can find so much information. You can get your ROAS, you can get your TACOS. If you don't know what those things mean, look them up. There's just data aplenty, which I think is really cool and gives you that power for sure.

Right. So let's talk about ads and how they kind of sneak into your everyday, into your social media. So say you're writing a book or you're going online and you're writing, you're typing in how to write a book in 30 days, nonfiction, not recommended, how to do this, how to do that, because the internet is now putting together all of these things that you're obviously thinking about writing a book. So then if you're on social media, after you're typing in about writing a book, marketing a book, etc., all the things that we're talking about, there's a good chance that you're going to get served an ad in your social media about writers conferences.

Yes.

Social media, writing publications, all of these things. You're probably gonna get bombarded, and then you realize that the man is listening to you and always listening to you.

Always.

But let's talk about writers conferences. Jen, what do you think about them?

Yes, speaking of playing in the sandbox with others, um, I have mixed feelings about writers conferences, and here's why. Because I think some of them are money grabs, and I don't know that they always serve the needs of the intended. That is not to say all writers conferences— please do not me and get grumpy with me about that comment— but there, there are some out there that I think are just capitalizing on, you know, I just think they are. And, right, and, and whatever, right? Conferences have to make money too, I get it. But I think it depends on what your goal is. So, and please let me preface this by saying I cannot speak to the fiction world. That's a whole other world. Um, the same thing with all of our conversations, right? So I'm talking just about nonfiction. I think if your goal is to go and build community and meet other writers and possibly get to, you know, hear some cool editors or agents speak, and just kind of, you know, feel the vibes, then I think yes, you should spend that money and go to the writers conference. If you are going because you think today's the day, or this weekend is the weekend that I'm gonna find my agent, or I'm gonna find my editor, and I'm gonna have that magical moment, and I'm gonna get discovered, then I think you need to save your money, uh, because those things happen infrequently, as much as people love to say they do happen. I'm not saying they don't, but it's not going to happen for everybody. For 99.9% of the people who attend that writer's conference, that is not going to happen. You know, if that's your goal, I would focus your time on building a great proposal, learning how to pitch to agents, learning how to pitch to publishers. Spend your time doing that. Networking is great. You can network for free in other ways. Um, but yeah, if you, if you want to go and build community and meet people, I say do it, but maybe stick to your topic area. Or maybe stick to a broader conference like, um, like AWP, or, you know, a nonfiction writers conference that is run by a trusted organization. Those are the ones that I would trust. If it's Joe Bob's Nonfiction Writing Show, then I wouldn't go. Um, but yeah, that's my two cents. They're great for what they are, but don't have unrealistic expectations for what's gonna happen.

Yeah, that's like going to, uh a Tony Robbins event, you're gonna drop all this money and you're like, he's gonna, he's gonna fix all of my problems. And that's probably not gonna happen cuz you're one in a million. And that's usually what happens. And that's, I think that's also my peeve about conferences is that they really don't focus so much on nonfiction, or maybe I just haven't found the right one. But you're right, AWP is a really good one. I wouldn't shy away from doing virtual conferences. A lot of local organizations, or not, let me take a step back, a lot of regional areas will have like the San Diego Writers Association. There are groups that you can do a little bit more of a community feel with it, right? And you don't have to drop a lot of money to do it. A lot of, they'll host virtual events. Facebook and LinkedIn are really good places to find writers groups.

I mean, yeah, is great.

IBPA, PubWest. They're all out there, and they, they find something that is going to give you resources not just for the writing part but the entire journey, I think.

Exactly. And I would say to piggyback on that too, sometimes your money and your time is better spent going to conferences that are within your topic area, especially if you're an academic. I mean, there's so many academic conferences, and so You know, I would say prioritize those to really kind of dig into your content area, right?

Playing in the same sandbox, see what other people are doing that are different. And you know, you never know when a good, a good partnership can come out of something like that.

Absolutely.

And if you walk into a place and nobody wants to talk to you because they think that, you know, they're doing the same thing as you and then they're going to steal your ideas and you're going to steal their ideas, etc. That's not Walk away.

Right.

Walk away.

That's not a sandbox you wanna be in.

No.

No.

And that goes, that goes the same with, you know, uh, when you're looking for other people to work with, if they're not willing and I mean to share the information and get you into the right partnership, then red flag.

Yep. Find another sandbox. As for us, our sandbox is always open. So come on over and play. We're @BroadBookGroup on all the socials. And, uh, that's all we have time for today. This was great. We've got to do another mailbag soon. Always.

Oh, absolutely.

Well, thank you so much. Uh, have a great weekend. We want to thank Paul Roberts, our producer, and Emily Carpenter-Pulskamp from Little Red Communications, our executive producer. Thanks, everybody.

We hope that you gained some valuable insights into the world of book publishing. Head over to broadbookgroup.com to learn more about us and all our services. And be sure to check out all our social media @BroadBookGroup. Until then, keep publishing.