EPISODE 103: What Do Women Really Think About…? (Masturbation, Butt Stuff, Penis Size, And More!)

We've talked about this before. Like I have asked you, does it feel like your mind wanders during sex and you're like, no, like definitively, sex.

Is on my mind. And that's all that's there.

It was one of those funny experiences where I was like, wow, being a dude is so different from being a woman. Hello and welcome to the Pillow Talks podcast. We're your hosts, Vanessa and Zach.

I'm Xander Marin.

I'm a sex Therapist with over 20.

Years of experience and I'm just a regular dude. We share the ups and downs in our relationship while giving you step by step techniques for improving yours.

Make sure you subscribe for your weekly double date full of totally doable sex tips, practical relationship advice, hilarious and honest stories of what really goes on behind closed bedroom doors, and so much more. It's the sex education you wish you'd had. Thanks to Dipsea for supporting Pillow Talks. Dipsea is an audio app full of short sexy stories. Get an extended 30 day free trial when you go to dipsystories.com pillow thanks to Green Chef for their continuing support of Pillow Talks. Green Chef is the number one meal kit for eating well with dinners that work for you, not the other way around. Go to greenchef.com pillow60 and use code pillow60 to get 60% off plus free shipping. I want to start us off today with a question, Xander. What do women really want?

Me.

Okay.

Dis bony ass.

Episode over?

Yeah, no, I mean, I was just thinking. I was just thinking about a reel that we posted recently about. It was like.

About your bony ass?

No, no, no. About like what my wife thinks. Like if I go out in public without my ring and it's like, like you're off. You're off camera, like throwing undergarments at me.

I. I have to say, I really enjoy putting you on the spot. Not telling you how I'm opening up the episodes and just seeing how you respond. And I. But also you're. You do some good responses. That was pretty good for being completely on the spot. Not accurate, but it was funny.

I mean, you know, how could you sum that up and in one word or even age old question or even a sentence. So, you know, might as. Might as well just, you know, go all in. And you know me. Yeah, me. I'm God's gift to women.

So two of our most popular Pillow Talks episodes ever have been our what Do Men Really Think about episodes. So if you haven't listened to those, Those are episode 56, what Do Men Really Think about Vulvas, emotional intimacy, and more. And then episode 69, what Do Men Really Think? Part 2. Lingerie, Boobs, Money queefing, and more. So, of course we knew that we had to do a what do women really think about? We were planning that from the beginning, but we got so many questions for the what do men think about? When we posted on Instagram that we just decided to do those two. It was just logistically easier. But of course we knew that we were going to talk about what do women really think? So, so today we have all sorts of questions for the ladies. What do women really think about masturbation, about penises, about same sex encounters, and so many other questions. We are going to get to the results of our fascinating polls and so much more on today's episode.

But first, we got to do review of the week. 100% recommend.

Ooh.

I stumbled upon Vanessa and Xander's podcast and I'm so glad I did. I. I have now listened to a majority of their episodes. That's awesome. And just finished their audiobook, Sex Talks. Oh, even more awesome. That's great. This. This person loves listening to things. I think. I think this person would love our podcast sponsor.

They probably would.

Yeah. Might as well. Might as well start listening to Dipsy too. Um, and I couldn't recommend them more for anyone looking to spruce up their relationships. They have great personalities, helpful advice, and a good sense of humor too. 10 out of 10 recommendations. Blushing smile.

Blushing smile. Thank you so much for this wonderful review. Reviews go so far in helping the podcast grow. The more reviews we have, the more likely places like Spotify and Apple are to show our podcast, like, as suggested, for brand new listeners. So it genuinely does really help the podcast grow. So as our way of saying thank you for taking the time to leave a review. And if you've never done that before, no shame. I had never done that before until I had a podcast and realized how important it is. So what you do is you can only leave reviews on Apple podcasts. So you go to the main Pillow talks page, scroll to the bottom, and you'll find the reviews section there. But on other platforms, you can give star reviews. You can follow the podcast. That's also a huge, huge thing. Like literally just following the podcast.

Yeah. Follow or subscribe. Hit that subscribe button. Yeah. It's called different things on different platforms. But it all does the same thing, which is that as soon as we come out with a new episode, it has it ready for you. So we come out with episodes on. So Thursday morning Your episode will be right there ready for you. And that helps us so much too. So please, please do that.

Even if you're like, I'm sorry, guys, I'm just not going to write a dang review, then just follow it. It literally takes half a second to click that little button.

Helps you.

Helps us help me to help you. But if you do want to leave a review, we have this weekly giveaway as our way of saying thank you. So once you write the review, you are in the giveaway for life. We pick a winner every week, and if you hear your review read, wow, that' tongue twister. You can email us@infomtherapy.com let us know the username that you left the review with, and you will get to pick one of four masterclasses that we have absolutely for free. Just our way of saying thanks.

All right, so let's get into this. Vanessa, are you ready to speak for all women?

I am. I mean, we made you speak for all men twice. Twice. So I'm ready to speak for all women. And before we get into the questions, though, we did want to make sure that we gave a little bit of a display disclaimer that we obviously made these episodes around, like, what do men really think and what do women really think? But we want to acknowledge that we think there are more genders than that. We honor and acknowledge and see our non binary friends. And it just logistically, we were like, can we do an episode about, like, what do non binary people really think about this? So we did ask on Instagram if people were interested in that. So we have it in the pipeline to, you know, as a potential topic to do, but we just wanted to acknowledge that first.

All right, so how did we even know what topics to talk about on this? About what do women really want? So we kind of took a two phase approach to this. We put up a question box on Instagram and said, all right, what questions do you want us to talk about in our what do women really Think about episode? So we gathered a ton of responses, we combed through and we tried to pull out what were some of the most common or most frequent responses. So that's how we came up with, like, the questions that we wanted to ask. Then we put, put, we put those questions up on Instagram and asked, all right, if you are a woman, what do you think about X? What do you think about why? And so again, we gathered all those responses. We went through, we tried to pull out some of the most common answers. So Vanessa's Going to talk about this from her experience as a woman. One woman's experience as a woman. Speaking for all women. Just kidding. She's not actually speaking for all women.

No, I will be. I'll be sharing the responses that women.

Shared with us, and then. Yeah, and then she'll. She'll also be sharing from her experience as a psychotherapist and also, you know, sharing a lot of these experiences that all of you shared with us on Instagram. So, first of all, thank you so much for sharing your experience. To all of you listening, because that helps us. That helps us so much. And then, you know, occasionally I'll just be hopping in from the peanut gallery.

The penis gallery.

Yeah. I mean, as a man. Because it's very helpful to mansplain what women really think. Right. I think what women really think is that they would love a man to tell them what they actually think. Oh, right. Okay. That was. That was. That was cynicism. Cynicism, everyone, in case sarcasm and cynicism, in case that didn't translate.

Made my stomach royal a little bit.

All right, well, on that note. All right, well, let's get started then. Vanessa, now that your stomach has turned.

Great, great start.

Yeah. Let. Let's go in hot and heavy with what do women masturbate to?

So we put this one up on Instagram, and there was one very common answer. Nothing, just relaxing. A lot of women said, yeah, I'm not really, like, thinking about anything specifically. I'm just kind of, like, zoning out, just in the zone. The second most common response was, I don't masturbate at all. So I do have to put in a little PSA here. So if you're not masturbating because you feel like your sex life is wildly satisfying, you're getting all of your pleasure needs met, that's awesome. But I do think there's always a place in our lives for masturbation. I think there is nothing more empowering, and especially as women, because we have grown up our entire lives being sent really crappy messages about, like, good girls don't do that, and our genitals are weird and icky, and, you know, our pleasure is so complicated. So I think that the act of learning how to bring yourself pleasure, learning how to get yourself off, having that confidence and that connection with your own body is so empowering and incredible. And I really want every woman to have that experience.

Yeah. I mean, especially if it feels like your sex life isn't, you know, isn't doing what you thought it would do or you know, things aren't working as smoothly as you thought they were, or it just kind of feels blah. Like, this is, this is a great way to get yourself to the point of really feeling confident in your body, knowing how your body works. Yeah, I mean, I think that masturbation is one of the big kind of blockages that we hear about from women when it comes to really truly enjoying themselves and especially to orgasming in the bedroom. And you know, very, you know, very often it's if you are, if you are struggling to really enjoy sex with your partner, very often it's that, you know, you haven't masturbated before, you're not comfortable with it.

And yeah, it's hard to know how to experience something with your partner that you've never experienced on your own. So we always say that masturbation is the key to being able to orgasm with a partner. So, yeah, like Xander's saying, if it feels like your sex life isn't very satisfying, if you're not orgasming or not doing it regularly, then we definitely want to. Want to encourage you to masturbate. It's so great.

It's so great.

Masturbate.

It's great.

Okay, here are some other responses. Past experiences, a fantasy about me and my partner doing something we would probably never do, I. E. Having sex in a public place, having sex in my office at work. Porn celebs, I think are hot. TV shows with love stories, spicy books, and of course, audio erotica, like our podcast sponsor, Dipsy.

All right, well, let's move on to what do women really think about penis problems such as erectile dysfunction or premature ejaculation?

Okay, first of all, this is one of the most common requests, probably the most common request, probably a lot of.

A lot of men.

A lot of men.

All right, come on, ladies, please tell me what you really think.

What do you, what do you think is behind men being so curious about this?

Well, I mean, I think, I think that. Well, first of all, as a man who has struggled with this in the past, so much of various penis problems are emotional, are they're in your head. There, there is science behind there being like medical reasons for erectile dysfunction. But if you look at like all the people that are say prescribed medication for erectile dysfunction, it's actually a very small percentage of those people actually need it for true medical purposes. It is a very over prescribed thing. So the reality is that we very much get in our heads and we often kind of get into this downward spiral or shame cycle where like Something weird happens one time, and then the next time we're like, oh, my God, is it going to happen again? That was so horribly embarrassing. I am a man, and I am supposed to be perfect with my penis. And I'm supposed to, like, you know, I'm supposed to get hard on command. I'm supposed to give my partner a great time. And if anything happens that counters that, we're like, oh, my God, I failed as a man. I'm completely emasculated and ashamed, and we can't talk about it and blah, blah, blah. If we can't talk about it, then it only lives in my brain. And so then the next time we're doing it, of course it's right there. Like, hey, remember me? Remember what happened last time? So I think that guys really get in their heads about this. Of course. Like, we. We want to know, like. Like, you know, if. If you know, if you're a guy and you are with a woman, like, you want to know, like, well, what. What does she actually think about it? Because I'm scared to talk about it. I don't want to have to acknowledge that maybe I have a problem. You probably don't have a problem, but you don't even want to acknowledge it at all. And so I think that it's easier to, hey, ask on a podcast. Try to figure out, okay, is it. Could it be safe to maybe bring this up, to maybe talk about it?

Well, just as men and penis owners can get really in their heads about performance issues, which, by the way, is completely normal, every man is going to have at least one, if not multiple instances of performance issues in the course of his life. It's very normal.

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's kind of just like any kind of hobby or sport or whatever that you play, like, even if you're really good at it, like, let's say you golf. You're really great at golf. You and practicing your whole life. Every now and then, you're going to have a day. They were like, you have a stinker. I don't actually think. I don't know. All right, so I. I've played one. One full round of golf in my entire life, so I don't know what the word is for, like, when. When you lay an egg.

Wait, the next. Some sort of performance issue. Can I call it a stinker?

Yeah, man. Yeah, you. You had a stinker.

That's not gonna go over well. Do not take that. That's not advice. Don't do that.

I mean, unless you can laugh at it. I mean, it's important if you could laugh about it. God. Wow. What a stinker. What a stinker of a sexy time. But no, I mean, like. But, like, that's the thing, is that even though you're really good at something, you're not always at your best. Sometimes it's just not your day. And when it comes to, like, a sport or a hobby, like, we kind of just naturally accept that, right? Like, you know, maybe unless we're a pro athlete. And that's really hard to not accept that. But, like, most people are like, yeah, just wasn't my day, you know, I'll come back, I'll do it again next week, and it'll probably be totally fine. But in the bedroom, we do not give ourselves that grace.

So just as men get into their heads, we women get into our heads. The number one thing that comes up for women when they're having sex with a guy who's having performance issues is we think it's my fault. It's all about us. So our brains will go to places like, I did something wrong. He's not into me. I'm not attractive. I'm not good at sex. And I can speak for myself. Like, my brain has gone there, you know, in points in my own sex life. And even with you, you know, at the beginning of our relationship, I think it's just so easy. And a lot of this does have to do with the socialization that we get, but, oh, yeah, all of it.

Yeah, men and women, it's the same. Social is just manifesting in different ways.

In different ways. But, yeah, we really blame ourselves. And I think for some women, it can even go to some pretty dark places. So we'll get DMS from people all the time saying, like, oh, he had a performance issue. Like, does this mean he's secretly cheating? Or he's secretly gay? And it's just like, you know, so those things. First of all, let's just be super clear. Like, having a performance issue doesn't say anything about your sexuality. But it's really important for women to understand that performance issues. Like, actually, I can honestly say this. In my entire career of being a sex therapist, working with thousands of men who have performance issues, I have never heard a man say, yeah, I had a performance issue because it. Like, something was wrong with my partner.

Yeah, it's.

It just. It's not. It doesn't happen. And definitely not for, like, oh, she wasn't attractive enough. Or, like, oh, I'm just not into her. All Of a sudden, it's like if. If you started having sex with that person, you were into them.

Yeah. I mean, so look here, let's bring it back to the golf example to just show how ridiculous this is. If you are playing golf with your friend and they are having a stinker, a stinker of a round, how absurd would it be if you are like, oh, my God, they're having a bad game today. It must be something I said. It must be something I must. Is it. What I'm wearing is, are they so offended that I didn't wear a polo shirt? I just wore a T shirt that, like, they are having a horrible game. And, like. Like, that would be so ridiculously presumptuous. And, like, just. It doesn't make any sense. Right? Yeah, it makes no sense. How is this any different?

Exactly. So we do have a Separate episode, episode 47, what penis performance problems really mean. So go check that out. But I also wanted to share a little tidb it for any men listening who might have submitted that question on Instagram originally. I think the main frustration that comes up for women once they understand, like, okay, it's not about me. It's about he's having anxiety or it's a totally random thing. Okay, I get it. Like, the main frustration that comes up for women, and I have experienced this as well, is that when you guys have performance issues, you go up into your heads and you leave us alone in that moment. And this is understandable. Like, of course your body is doing something that you don't want it to be doing. Like, of course you're gonna go up to your head, into your head, and you're feeling anxious and like, oh, my God, am I gonna be able to, like, what happened? All this stuff. But it does feel like this very lonely experience for us women. Like, you kind of check out. We can tell you're not there, and that makes us feel, like, kind of objectified in a way. It's like, it doesn't feel like you're having sex with. With us as a person anymore. It's like we're just kind of a body that's there, and that's what feels really tough.

And in that case, I can understand where even if, you know, even if in your head intellectually, you know, it's not about you, that you might start to have some doubts if you're like, okay, well, he's struggling and he's just totally checked out. Like, God, is he. Like, is he thinking about something else? Is he fantasizing about someone Else, you know?

Yeah.

So I. I totally get that. And on the flip side, you know, as a guy who's been there myself, having, you know, if you have not been able to have just these really open conversations with your partner about what it's like for you, it can feel like you're faced with an impossible choice because it's like, in the moment, you know, you don't want your partner to think it's about her because it's not about her. But you also know, like, what am I going to be able to say that's actually going to make her believe in that moment?

Oh, yeah. If you're like, it's not you, I swear.

Oh, God, no. This has nothing to do with you. Like, that. That seems weird. So, like, what. What are you going to do? Like, you don't really want to acknowledge that you also, in the moment, don't want to. You don't want to, like, be like, oh, God, something's horribly wrong with me. Yeah, right. Like, that's not helpful either. And so it can feel like, well, the only real choice I have is to really just, like, like, get in, like, go internal and just, like, really focus on, like, stay hard, like, get it, you know, like. Or, like. Or, yeah. Or maybe just try to, like, fantasize about something. You know, try to, like, kind of turbo charge what's going on? Or, like, be like, okay, like, can I. What do I need to do in order to finish? Like, it would be better because. And here's the other unfortunate thing. I think very often you're, like, Say you're like, losing your erection. I've been here before where I'm like, it's better to. If I could just finish, because then. Then it's like, okay, well, like, we. We had sex. We did it, and we could be done. And then I don't have to explain, like, why I couldn't finish. And so, like, you can just. Yeah, it's like you just kind of try to muscle your way through the experience, and it's just. Yeah. It's like. It's like. It feels like there's no good options now. The reality is there are good options available to you. However, they do require, you know, being able to be open and honest with your partner. And I think we talk about that in our modern man's guide, which is all about conquering performance problems of all varieties. Premature ejaculation, Struggling to get hard. Struggling to get hard, not being able to orgasm, struggling to stay hard, taking too long to orgasm. We cover, like all the emotional things that could be coming up and ways to. Ways to work on that yourself and ways to talk about that with your partner. So if you are in the midst of that kind of downward spiral, I've been there myself. I know what it feels like. Go check out that guide. It is super, super helpful in. In helping you get to the bottom of what's going on and having some.

Grace with yourself and also being able to have the kind of sex that you really want to have, too. It'll help you resolve the performance issues. We will link to that in the show notes if you want to check that out.

All right, well, speaking of penises. Not the problems this time. What. What are women really thinking? What. What goes through your mind when you see a beautiful penis? Beautiful penis or just a penis?

So we put this one up on Instagram, and the vast majority of women were just like, you know, I don't think we women are as visually stimulated by genitals as men might be.

It's not. It's not like boobs.

Yeah. I mean, I think that there is. Obviously, we're speaking in very broad stereotypes here, but I think that there's an excitement that men get about seeing body parts that women don't necessarily get.

You know, I have a question. Okay.

Okay.

I. This is. This is interesting. I've never thought about it this way. There's a difference. There's. There's kind of two types of penises, right? There is a soft penis, and there's a hard penis. So what are you thinking? Like, if you just, like, walked around the corner of our house and I'm standing there with, like, a raging boner, what would you think?

Okay, so I do think that we look at it differently. When it's soft, it's just kind of like it's there. It's not really doing anything for most people. Like, it's just sort of like, okay, yeah, that's your penis. Just like, that's your stomach, and that's your kneecap. There were a lot of women who were like, I just can't stop thinking about how uncomfortable it must be to have something hanging in between your legs all the time. I think this a lot myself.

She does.

I'm like, you know, or when you're walking around naked and it's kind of like. It's, like, bouncing around, and I'm like, is it okay? Is he okay?

It's okay. He is just fine. He likes. He likes the air.

Weird. He likes the air. He likes breathing.

He likes to breathe.

I Mean, obviously, like, people who were born, you know, having penises and vulvas, obviously, that genital. Those genitals look very different, right? Like, my genitals are all internal. I can see them, but I have to really, like. Like, strain to see them versus you're just, like, out and about. So I think a lot about, like, God, is that comfortable? Like, is it gonna get squished about your balls too? I'm very concerned about your balls, like, all the time.

We've had so many. We've had so many conversations about this, and she's still concerned.

I'm always worried about them. It just seems uncomfortable and, like, it just seems like they're getting squished all the time. So that's a soft penis. A hard penis, I think is pretty different, and especially if that woman was, like, kind of in the mood or a little bit interested in that moment. So someone women wrote, I can't wait to have it in me. I love the way it looks smooth and veiny. And another person said, only turned on by it if it's my partner's. So I think it's slightly different, you know, hard to soft. But overall, there's just not that same level of excitement as there is for men.

Yeah, no, it's. Yeah, that. That. That makes sense. That makes sense. But, yeah, I feel like it's. It's just different because, like, the penis is sort of like, it's always there, and when it's soft, it's just a body part, and when it's hard, it's, you know, it's a sexual organ. So, yeah, it totally makes sense. Kind of two different. Two different experiences.

Do you wish I was wildly excited by the sight of it soft?

No, not really. I'm. I'm not wildly excited.

It's just.

It's just there.

It's just there, Ari.

But let's get into the really important part of this conversation, which is what about the size of the penis.

Oh, we know that you men are so concerned about this. I mean, I would say that for, like, the vast majority of men, this is, like, the greatest anxiety that comes up for you, isn't it? Like, you spend a lot of time, especially in your teenage years or maybe like, early 20s, like, just thinking about the size of your penis and, like, is it big enough? Is it okay? Is your partner going to like it?

I. Yeah, I spent. I spent, you know, from puberty until probably until I started having sex or maybe like a year or two after, like, until I had sex with a couple of Partners, you know, kind of came away from those experiences being like, huh, okay, like, it. I seem to have gotten decent reviews. It seems to have gotten decent reviews.

Decent reviews.

And it's like, huh, like aiming for the cloud or, you know, it's just like. It seems like these things. Seems like things have come. I mean, I'm gonna be honest. My.

By our guide, Xander is decent at sex.

I mean, I mean, I'm gonna be honest. It was. It wasn't until I think, my sophomore year of college that I, you know, started dating someone regularly to have enough regular sex to actually really feel like I was really having a good time. And I know we had some, you know, had some real capability.

We always like to normalize that. Like, it takes. It takes time and effort and, you know, to get good at sex. And it's. You restart every time you're with a new partner.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

I just think it's funny. Like, by our guides, we're decent at sex.

So. Yeah. Looping back, you know, after. After, I don't know, a couple of experiences, I kind of just stopped thinking about it because it seemed like I was pretty normal. And then it was just like, not really. I guess for me, I was like, yeah, it didn't feel good when I was worrying about it a lot, you know, when I was younger. And so I was like, okay, this isn't really serving me. And I have. I have no evidence to show me that I should be continuing to worry about this, so I'll stop worrying about it.

He says as his voice cracks. Okay, you did something interesting that I will loop back around to in a second. But let's answer the central question, like, what do women really think about penis size? So I think it's important to just to be real and be honest. Like, yes, penis size does matter. You're going to have, like, you're going to feel a difference having sex with a penis that is very small as opposed to having sex with a penis that is very big. It's just like. Like a. A logical reality of things, but one bigger isn't always better. We actually get more complaints from women about being with partners who have penises that are too big, where it's causing pain, they can't do certain positions, they can't get it in all the way. We get way more than we do about people complaining, women complaining that the penis is too small. So bigger is not always better. Girth also matters a lot more than length, I would say. And I feel like most men aren't really that concerned about their girth. Like, you're. You're always thinking about the length, right?

Yeah, I mean, I. I know. I know exactly how long my penis is. I have no idea what. What the girth is, like, in inches. Like, if someone put. You know, someone was like, tell me your penis girth right now, and I'll give you a million dollars. But, you know, it has to be accurate. It'd be like, I don't know.

And also, like, women will tell you, like, yes, I might be able to feel a difference, but, like, the size of the penis is one. Just one of so many factors that go into what makes great sex. It's actually very unimportant to us in the scheme of all things. So when you were telling your story, you went straight into, like, yes, I was very anxious about my size, and I was worried about, you know, performance and all that. Like, you tied the size into these. The experience. When the reality is that your penis is just one way that you can make your partner feel good, you're actually way, way more likely to be successful with your hands, your mouth, with a toy. So it's, you know, it's just one part of it. So it's like, yeah, there is. We can tell a difference. It does matter to an extent. But it matters so much less than most men think it does. So much less.

Well, yeah, I mean, it also kind of makes sense if you think about it. Like, you know, intercourse has more to do with the general movement, like, moving in and out versus it's not just like, you're not just sitting there still. In which case, like, yeah, I guess the, you know, the size and the girth would maybe, like, would feel kind of different. But the reality is you're moving something around. So it's like, it's not really. Yeah, it's not. It's not like, oh, that. That matters so much at all.

I think women are also just more realistic about this, where it's like, yeah, you know, if I'm with a partner and maybe his penis is not, like, the ideal perfect penis size. It's just like, whatever. Like, I love my partner. We have good time together. We have plenty of ways of making each other feel good. Like, it. I don't know if I've ever heard a woman say, like, you know, the size of the penis was the most important thing to her.

Yeah, no, definitely not. So sorry, guys. That is not the most important thing. But, you know, I get it. I get it. I've definitely, definitely been stressed out about that. I would say, if this is something that you're stressed out about, my recommendation is think about the stuff that you can control, such as what you can do with your hands, what you can do with your mouth, your confidence, your skills when it comes to foreplay. Because quite honestly, that is going to give her such a better experience than anything you can do with your penis. I hate to break it to you. So if you are not so confident in your skills, you're wanting a refresher, check out our foreplay guides. They are incredible. They will show you how to finger a vulva, how to go down on a vulva. You can also get the penis centric version so your partner can learn how to give a great hand job, how to give a great. Give a great blowjob. Super fun. A lot of people just kind of forget about foreplay after, you know, they've started having intercourse with someone. And the reality is there's so many great opportunities for pleasure and just really like, you know, ramping up your sex life by focusing on kind of some forgotten favorites.

And if you're interested in those, hang around till the end of this episode because we're going to tell you about some really exciting news about those foreplay guides. Before we go any further, let's tell you a little bit more about Dipsea. We have been hearing from a lot of you guys that you are very excited that Dipsea is a podcast sponsor. You've been checking them out their 30 day free trial and really enjoying their short sexy audio stories. If you've never heard about Dipsea before, they are really a pioneer in the oral a U R A L eronica space. So it's this app where you can go in and listen listen to sexy stories. So I know a lot of people these days are talking about reading erotic novels, but it can be a very different and much more exciting experience to hear some erotic story. It's delivered straight into your ears. If you're looking for a way to maybe spice up your morning walk while you're folding the laundry, you know, just pop Dipsy in and check it out. So we really love Dipsea. There's such a great values alignment with our business as well. They're radically inclusive. They have stories for straight and Queer listeners and 56% of their stories are voice acted by people of color. There is new content released every week so you can listen to your favorite stories over and over again or you can find something new to explore. And they're even branching out with sleep stories wellness sessions. And they also do have sex stories that you can read if you want to read things instead. For Pillow Talks listeners, Dipsea is offering an extended 30 day free trial. When you go to dips dipsystories.com pillow there's really nothing to lose. Like just check it out, see if it feels exciting to you, see if it gets you going. Like I think so many of us these days complain about feeling low libido, just not feeling like our usual passionate selves. So why not try this out and see if that might be the spark that lights your fire. So you can get 30 days of full access for free when you go to diploma seastories.com pillow dipseastories.com pillow let's tell you a little bit more about Green Chef. So we are recording this after having a Green Chef lunch. It was a delicious like teriyaki turkey bowl with rice and sugar snap peas and cabbage, peanuts. Like it was so good. And we are really enjoying cooking with Green Chef. We have been buying Green Chef with our own money since it became a podcast sponsor because we've just fallen in love with the meals that they give. It makes it so easy. The food is so delicious and we're so excited that they are offering a special discount for Pillow Talks listeners. So you can go to greenchef.com pillow60 and use the code pillow60. That's six zero to get 60% off plus free shipping. You can now choose from over 50 weekly menu and market items. I swear, every time that we open up the app to choose our meals, we're seeing new things which is so fun. Makes it feel very exciting to get to choose, mix and match all different kinds of things and they really break down meals based on different dietary restrictions or preferences. So you can get vegetarian, vegan, keto, paleo. Like we get gluten free because we're gluten free. But there's so many different options to choose from and they're also really improving their customization game as well. So you can choose to like swap out your protein for USDA certified organic ground beef, organic chicken, wild caught salmon. It just, it's great. Like there's so many options. You are going to find food that you love and it's always changing, always rotating. But yeah, yet somehow like the meals that we really like do come around often enough that we get to enjoy them as well. Green Chef just makes everything convenient, easy, seasonal, sustainable. We could not recommend them highly enough. So you can go to greenchef.com pillow60 and use code pillow60 to get 60% off plus free shipping.

All right, so enough about penises, Vanessa.

All right, I'm ready to move on from the penises.

We're done with penises. So. So what do women think about same sex encounters? Like, especially women who identify as straight.

We put this up on Instagram and we found that 60% of women who identify as straight say that they have fantasized about a same sex encounter.

Interesting.

60%. So first thing that I want to say about this is that it's completely normal for people of any gender to have. Have same sex fantasies. Like, if you identify as straight to have same sex fantasies, it's just normal to have fantasies that you wouldn't necessarily want to act out in real life. So a lot of times we hear from women who are like, oh, does this mean like, I'm secretly gay or I'm secretly bi? And of course, there's nothing wrong with being gay or bi. And if you're curious about that, you know, within yourself, definitely explore that. But just the simple act of fantasizing about same sex encounters or even watching lesbian, lesbian porn, reading lesbian erotica, listening to some dipsy stories, lesbian stories like that doesn't say anything inherently about your sexual identity. And a lot of women will say that same sex fantasies feel very appealing to them because they fantasize about having the kind of sex that feels best for them. Not super focused on penises and men and penetration.

Interesting.

More focused on the foreplay and the sensual touching and being soft and slow with each other.

Very interesting. So if intercourse is not the be all end all, especially for women, it would make a lot of sense that women tend to gravitate towards fantasies or porn or whatever it is that actually depicts the acts that they enjoy more, probably more at the pace that they enjoy more. So men out there, like, there's something here for you to take from this.

Oh, yes.

It is not all about you and your penis. Like I just said, it is not all about you and your intercourse. Try some new things. Take some notes from what women are fantasizing about and try to deliver on those fantasies. The reason they're fantasizing about it is more about the, like, activity and the vibe of it than like the actual gender of the person. I think a man can get caught up, up and be like, oh, well, like she's, she's thinking about other women. It's like, you can do all those things, dude. Yeah, like you can do all those things. Like, do that. All right, well, what about period sex?

This is another one that we popped over on Instagram. We asked women, how do you feel about period sex? 28% said, Totally fine with it. 35% said, don't love it, but I'll do it. And 28% said, Too uncomfortable to do it or have never done it. So I was surprised and a little sad to see this, that only 28% of women are, like, comfortable with it. Like we always say, our bottom line is, it's your body. It's your sex life. You do whatever you feel comfortable with, whatever feels good and right for you. All that I want to say is that having a period is completely normal. It's natural, it's healthy. There's nothing gross or icky or weird about. And so just being on your period doesn't necessarily have to mean that you're completely closed down to any sort of physical intimacy with your partner. There are actually tons of great ways to still be intimate and not even have to worry about any sort of contact with blood or menstrual fluid. We do know some people, like, have real issues with blood, no matter where in the body it comes from.

We don't want anyone passing out. Yeah.

So we do have a YouTube video all about this. This. If you want to check it out, just go over to YouTube, find our account. Vanessa and Zander. I'm sure if you just Google Vanessa and Xander period sex, it'll pop. Or not Google, but YouTube it. You know, you know how to use YouTube. Just go over there. It'll pop up. But we have some tips about how to do it and how to get more comfortable with it. Because the bottom line, your body is normal, beautiful, healthy. Nothing to feel ashamed of.

Yeah, I mean, we are. We are pretty much all in on period sex. I think it's just every. Every now and then, you're like, you know what? I'm just, like, not feeling it today, but it's like, at most, it's like.

A day we had period sex last night.

We did. We did.

There are also a lot of benefits to it, too. We talk about those in the YouTube video. So even if you're like, I don't know, at least watch the video to learn about the benefits.

Yeah. And I mean, I think. I think this is such an important topic to talk about because at least, like, men, I think, very often don't really talk about this. Men don't talk about this with each other. Really. And so it's like, I think it's so easy for. For men to, like, never hear anything from a female partner about, like, Whether she is. She is okay with it. She's not okay with it. There's just sort of this assumption of, like, okay, well, like, if she's not going to say anything, then she must not want it. But I don't really want to ask about it. I mean, God, this is embarrassing. But I had. I had a lot of just misconceptions, or not even misconceptions. I just had, like, a total lack of understanding about periods and what it meant. Like, the first real relationship that I was in in college when. Oh, yeah, I think, like, I must have known that my partner had started her period. I didn't know, like, if it was appropriate or not for me to, like, sleep in the same bed.

Oh, babe, this is so embarrassing.

I asked, so, like, my roommate, what.

Did you think was gonna happen? The blood was gonna, like, attack you?

I don't know. I don't. It was like, she had, like, invited me to, like, like, come over to her room. And, like, I knew that she was on her period because I think she. She had said something, like, in passing about it. And. And I was trying to figure out, like, oh, like, should I bring stuff? Like, am I gonna sleep over there? Or is it, like, she just wants me to say hi? And so it was so embarrassing. I didn't know what to do. Hey, this was also pre smartphone era. It's not like, you know, Google's like, not at your fingertips. And so I, like, I went in, I asked my. My roommate and his girlfriend. I was like. I was just like, oh, I've, like, never done this before. Like, they both laughed at me, and they're like, yeah, it's totally fine.

Oh, my God. I've never heard this story before.

There you go. Wow. There you go. But, you know, fortunately, I developed. Developed a pretty good relationship with period sex early on, I think, like, that, you know, that partner was basically like, yeah, no, like, it's no big deal. Like, it. If it ever is a big deal, like, I'll say something. And, you know, I realized it's really no big deal. Like, I usually grab a couple Kleenex to kind of wipe off period or not. And, you know, you just grab a couple, maybe grab one extra Kleenex, wipe off. Boom. Done. Easy.

And again, in that video, we have. Have some sneaky ways to have period sex where you don't have to have any contact with menstrual fluid if you don't want to. So make sure to check that out.

All right, so we talked about period sex.

What about some Great voice cracks today.

You know, I just hold a really embarrassing.

That was pretty embarrassing. I appreciate you sharing that. You know, I, I'm. I know. I'm laughing at you because it's cute. Just like, oh, I'm laughing at me.

I'm laughing at me too.

But we always do like to normalize. Like, this is a shame free zone. I'm. I'm laughing at Xander because we know each other and we, you know, obviously have that trust in each other that, like, we can tease each other about these silly moments. But we all. We all have stuff like this. Like, we're just not given the education about bodies and sex and pleasure and orgasm and all the things. And so most of us have some really inaccurate information that we're dealing with that's getting in the way of our sex life. So I just want to be super clear. Like, like, it's. It's a no shame zone here. I'm glad that you were able to learn that period sex is nothing to be worried about.

And I can sleep in the same bed.

Sleep in the same bed.

Yeah. So. But I think that's just a. It's a good example for, for the guys, for the men and the women out there of, like, this is, like, the type of stuff that, you know, guys are just unsure about because of the lack of general sex ed, you know, at least in this country, and, you know, just, like, lack of conversation about it. So, yeah, I mean, I think when it comes to period sex, like, you know, it is your period, it is your body. And so I think it's best, you know, to lead the way in terms of saying what it is that you're comfortable with and what it is that you want, because, like, don't. It's not practical to assume that your partner knows how this all works. One, and then two, like, like, has a strong opinion about it. So I, I think that don't. Don't wait around for, like, him to ask you if you want to do it. Like, I. I think because he's probably waiting around for you to say something. And, you know, when 20, 30 years goes by of, like, waiting around, you kind of just end up being like, okay, well, this must be gross. This must not be something that's okay. And then we kind of get, like, you know, stuck in this.

Well, it's a classic example of if you're not talking about sex openly, there are so many opportunities for you guys to misunderst other, to make up stories in your head of what your partner must really be thinking. And most of the time those stories are inaccurate. So make sure to talk about it.

Yeah. All right, so let's, let's move on. We did period stuff, now let's do butt stuff. What do women really think about butt stuff?

We pulled this on Instagram and 67% of women said that they are curious about butt stuff stuff. And there is still, unfortunately, there is still a little bit of a sense of like a bit of taboo around butt stuff. We're working on dismantling it, but I think that actually in a way can feel kind of exciting to women. It's like, oh, that's like something a little naughty or something that like most people don't do. So there is a thrill about it, there is a curiosity about it. We also did hear from a lot of women though who said that they feel really scared of being butt stuff, particularly about anal intercourse. Like penis in the butt feels very scary to a lot of women. They're nervous about being in pain. They're nervous about it, like feeling too intense. It, you know, just being like an icky experience. So there's a lot of nervousness about this as well.

I mean I, I can totally understand that. I'm imagining perhaps like if say your first experience or your first couple experiences with intercourse, you know, if there might have been in a little bit of pain, you one would then imagine that like, well, anal intercourse, like, you know, my anus is a lot smaller, a.

Lot tighter full on intercourse in my.

Anus than, than my vagina. And so therefore, you know, it's gonna, you know, it's gonna be worse or, you know, more painful or more uncomfortable than whatever I experience kind of, you know, my, my early experience with intercourse. Right.

So we do have a butt stuff guide and we will link to that in the show notes as well. If you are also curious about butt stuff, hang on to the end because we have something really fun to share with you. But one of the things, but one of the things that we made really sure to do in that guide was cover so many options other than just.

Intercourse because there are a lot, a.

Lot, a lot more than you think.

Yeah, most of us just jump, jump to that conclusion of oh, like any kind of anal must be intercourse. Or we think of it in the same way as we do with you know, like, I guess vaginal sex where it's like, oh, well, the be all, end all is intercourse, despite the fact that that's not the most pleasurable thing for most women. Like we have this kind of bases analogy and it's a. Yeah, the home run is P and V. And so if we're talking about anything anal, like, obviously, obviously, the same goal applies. And the reality is it's. It's totally. It's a totally different thing. There are a ton of different options. There's no hierarchy. And so, yeah, don't stop yourself from doing something because you're hesitant about one of 50 options. I'm just. I'm throwing out a random number, but it's like, you wouldn't, not. You wouldn't not.

Sure there are 50, but you would.

Not do something because you're just not into, like. Like, one of the things. Right. Like, if you could try all the other things. So check it out. And the final question. Vanessa, what are you thinking about during sex?

Okay, well, here's the number one response that we got from women on Instagram. The size of your penis. No, it was actually my to do list, slash, wandering mind. And that was a sad one to see. We've talked about this before. Like, I have asked you, does it feel like your mind wanders during sex? And you're like, no.

Like, definitively, sex is on my mind. And that's all that's there.

It was one of those funny experiences where I was like, wow, being a dude is so different from being a woman. Yeah. Number one by far response was like, I'm just thinking of my to do list, my response responsibilities, my tasks. You know, I just can't, like, stay there and be present. So this is such a common response that we do have a podcast episode about this. Episode 43, how to Stop getting distracted during Sex. It's a really important one for you to listen to if this is something that you struggle with. Because having that distracting mind, like, it's so hard to enjoy sex, to be in the moment, to connect with your partner, to. To experience that intimacy that we're all wanting to have. If you're just thinking about, like, oh, do I need more eggs? I gotta get paper towels, too. Like, it's. You just can't. You can't have both at the same time.

Yeah. And I can guarantee you your partner does not want that to be like, what sex is.

Oh, of course not. Yeah. No, Your partner. That's what we want from each other.

We want you to be there.

We want to feel like, yeah, both of us are there in the moment together. We're sharing something. We're having an experience. And I don't say this to shame women. Like, I have experienced this all the time. Like, I regularly have A random thought pop into my head, or I think about my to do list. Like, and I think that it does come down to how socialized we are to pay attention to these household tasks. You know, we do talk a lot about mental load here on the podcast and over on Instagram. Like, we're just socialized to have this running list going through our heads at all times. And so, of course, if we get into the bedroom, like, it's not like there's this magical switch that you flip, and all of a sudden you're just fully present in the moment and never thinking anything. So it's not to shame anybody who experiences that, but it's just to let you know there is a different way. There is a way to, like, be present in the moment with your partner. It's going to make the experience of sex so much more enjoyable for you. It's going to improve intimacy between you and your partner, and it's also going to even make you crave sex more because you're having a more enjoyable experience. So definitely make sure to check out that episode.

How often do you think you find yourself thinking about stuff on your to do list when we're having sex?

I would say, like, or has that.

Changed over the course of our relationship?

So here's what has changed. How distracted I actually get. But what has not changed is how often things will pop into my mind. And this is a big thing that we get into in that episode. So I would say that probably every two or three times that we're having, like, once every two or three times that we have sex, I have, like, a very random thought or a to do list type of thought pop into my head. So it's not that I can ever get to a point, like, we can't prevent ourselves from having thoughts, right? But we can figure out different things to do with those thoughts when we have them. So now I have these strategies and techniques so I don't actually get distracted. I take a moment to deal with it, and I come back into the moment with you, but, like, the thoughts are still there.

Okay, that makes sense.

Yeah. And you're still just thinking about sex the whole time.

I'm thinking about sex. I'm thinking about you. I'm thinking about, like, what I'm gonna do next, like, next in the sex.

Not like, I'm gonna buy the eggs.

What am I gonna do the moment I finish.

No. Okay. The second most common response to what do you think about? During sex? Was myself, usually, and in a negative way, like, specifically my body and usually in a negative way. So so many women just dealing with like, oh, does my stomach look weird at this angle? Does he not like the way my boobs look at this angle? You know, I don't want him to touch that part of me or her to touch that part of me. Like, all kinds of negative thoughts about our bodies come up. That makes it really hard for us to enjoy ourselves. So another tough one to hear. And again, like, no shame. I've been there myself. I know what that feels like. And again, it all does come back to crappy socialization that we get about our bodies. But of course, if you are just spending all that time beating yourself up and thinking about how unhappy you are with your body, like, how are you going to enjoy that experience? So we do have another episode for your here. For you here too. Episode 12, how to Let your partner love your body even if you don't. That's a great one to check out.

Because, I mean, spoiler alert. I've never once in the same way that I have never, like. Well, I shouldn't say never once, but, like, pretty much never think of, like, my to do list. I have never during sex thoughts like, oh, that looks weird. I'm just like, yeah, this is hot. Yeah, this is hot. Yeah, this is hot.

No matter how weird of a position we might be in.

What is weird? Like, it's your body, and I love your body. Married you and your body. Like, I love you.

I just think a lot of women don't believe that. They're like, no, you. You have to see, like, my stomach rolls. Like, if I'm twisted around like that. Like, it doesn't look good. Like, you have to notice that. I think that's what most women would respond.

I think it looks great.

No, I think, I think it's, you know, that we talk about this in that episode. Like, it is a very powerful one if you're a woman who has sex with men, to recognize the different ways that men and women view bodies.

Yeah. And I mean, I mean, I think the interesting thing about it is that, like, yeah, if, like, if, you know, if you are doing that, like, in a way, you're kind of like, you know, you're. You're kind of objectifying yourself. Like, you're. There's this implicit assumption of, like, oh, well, well, sex for my partner must be this totally transactional thing where I'm just supposed to look a certain way. It's like, has nothing to do with me, my personality, who I am, but just what my body Is, and I mean, yeah, in if you're, if you're in a long term relationship, like, you're in a relationship with the person who they are inside, not the size of their penis.

Maybe that's the message that men need to listen to.

Yeah. God, there's something here for everybody.

So the majority of the answers that we got were sadly pretty negative. A lot of things like, am I moving the right way? Am I being judged by my partner? Do I look good? Is my partner satisfied? Am I right enough?

Let me, let me give you the answers quickly. It's, you are moving the right way. You look great, your partner is satisfied, and hopefully, oh, no, you are wet enough. Sorry, I realized you didn't say the other one, but the next one is, will the kids walk in? And hopefully they won't.

So, yeah, the positive answers were a lot more rare. We just got a couple of them. They were things like how good it feels, the connection that I feel with my partner, like how close I feel to them, how much I love my partner. Partner. But the vast majority of responses were pretty negative. So that leads us to think there's a lot that we women can work on on our mindset for allowing ourselves to be present and enjoy sex. And I think a big part of it is just recognizing that this is something that you deserve. You deserve to have a sex life that feels pleasurable and passionate and exciting and intimate. Like, I know I already said this, but I think that's what intimacy really is, is when we can be in the moment with our partner and just there with them together. It's like the actual act of what we're doing isn't even that important. It's that feeling that we get when we're together. So I just hope all women listening, if you, whether you responded to the original polls that you saw on Instagram or you're just starting to think about this now, like, I really want to encourage you to believe that you deserve, deserve this and to take some steps to help you create that sex life that you deserve. Because we want you. We want you thinking all the good things during sex.

Oh, yeah. Well, that's all we got for, for this first part of this episode. Yeah.

I mean, if you have other questions that you want to ask us women, come on over to Instagram. We're at Vanessa and Xander. Xander is with an X. Let us know what questions you want us to ask women.

Yeah, I mean, we could absolutely do part two. That would be only fair since we do did two parts for what do Men think, right?

We did get like, you know, we need some more creative questions because we got a lot of questions from dudes that were just like, what does she think about giving me a hand job? And it's like, come on, buddy. It was just like, it was cracking me up. What does she think about me giving her a facial? So give us some more creative questions so we could do a part two.

Yes. So we did mention a lot of different products and guides that we offer throughout this episode. Stuff that's going to help you feel more confident, improve your technique, start having more fun in the bedroom. And you might be thinking like, God, that's a lot of different things. Like, wouldn't it be really nice? Wouldn't it be amazing if I could just get them all together all at once in one fell swoop, just totally up level my sex life in a single purchase.

Well, we gotcha.

We got you. It is finally time. Due to popular demand, Due to popular demand. It's, you know, it's, this is long overdue. But we have, we have put all of our technique based guides together into what we are calling the sexual mastery package. Because honestly, this is everything that you need to have an incredible sex life life. And we are now for the first time ever offering this entire package all together. Here is what is included in the sexual mastery package. We've got our foreplay guide. So that's actually a two parter. It's the Penis Pleasure Edition, which is all about how to pleasure a penis. Hand jobs, blow jobs, the Vulva Pleasure Edition, which is all about obviously how to pleasure a vulva with your mouth. Fingering a vulva, going down on a vulva.

Beautifully illustrated, tons of fun techniques to try out with each other.

This is like absolute all time bestseller.

Oh yeah. This is the most popular thing that we offer. People say that it just like dramatically increases their confidence. So these are so fun. I will say I gotta toot our own horn. Like, I think what we do really well is we help people learn all this stuff about sex that we feel like we're supposed to know, but we do it in a way that feels fun. Not like, oh, you don't know how to give a blow job. It's like, I don't care. You could be a blowjob king or queen already. Like, let me show you how to take it to the next level. Like, it's just so fun and playful and exciting. Zero shame.

Yeah. And speaking of the next level, the next thing that's offered in the package is next level intercourse which is about taking intercourse to the next level. We've got, got tons of positions. I think they're 42. 42 different positions, variations of those positions. How to get in, how to get out. They're also very tastefully illustrated adventures. Yeah, it's more than position.

It's like how to put it all.

Yeah. How to put it all together. How to transition between them. Adventures. I think some fun games that you can play.

There's all kinds of stuff in there. But mostly how to make sure that both, both partners have a pleasurable and satisfying experience.

Oh yeah. Because we were talking about how intercourse is typically not the most pleasurable activity for women. For most women. For most vulva owners. And so this guide shows you how to incorporate as many different elements as possible so that you can make it as pleasurable as possible for both partners. Next, we also have The Dirty Talk 101 guide, which is, which is really.

All about teaching you how to communicate during sex. So many of us get like frozen and we don't know what to say. So Dirty Talk is not just about imitating a porn star. It's about what we keep saying, like being in the moment with each other, feeling connected, being able to communicate. So it's all about finding your authentic voice, how to talk to your partner in a way that feels really sexy and connecting.

And then finally we got the Butt Stuff guide. Because we know you're interested in butt stuff stuff. Most people are, most people are just a little intimidated because they're scared of anal intercourse. And so this guide is going to show you all the different options that are on the table, all the, all the menu items when it comes to anal play and how to really enjoy yourself, how to take it slow so that you're not rushing into things, that you're just focused on pleasure and excitement and figuring out what activities really work for you. The best part about this whole thing is we were like, look, we want people to be able to get the whole package. The whole section. Oh yeah, yeah, you want the whole.

Package, you know, yeah, the big package, baby.

Yeah, you want to get that big package, but you don't want to pay that big price. Look at you go get that big package for cheap. I mean, we just want, we want, we want to make this, we want to make this, this a total no brainer, right? So like all of those four guys on their own together cost $406. And we said, what can we do if you want to buy them all together? Like, let's just, let's just Give you the best deal we can. So all together, we are giving you the whole package. My big package for just $249. That gives you. You all four guides. You're getting $157 off.

That's 40% off.

Yeah, that's 40% off. It's, you know, it's kind of like if you're gonna get one, like, you might as well get them all.

Okay. But here's also the sneaky thing that we did, is that we knew sometimes people feel a little bit shy and embarrassed, like, buying some of the guides. So we wanted to make it such a good deal that you could share it with your partner in that way of like, hey, Vanessa and Xander have this package. It was just. Just such a good deal. I figured, like, why not just snap it up? Like, basically, you know, for the price of less of, you know, two of the things, like, I could get four for free. So if you feel nervous to bring up a specific guide with your partner.

Like, butt stuff.

Yeah, butt stuff. You don't have to say, like, I want to get a guide about butt stuff.

Yeah, it's like, we just gave it to you.

I got this for free. Like, I got these two things, and I got two other ones for free.

Yeah, we gave it to you out of the goodness of our heart.

This is. We did this on purpose because we wanted to give you a sneaky way to suggest something for your partner, but without having to say it specifically.

Yeah. All right, so how the hell do you get this? Go over to VM therapy.com/masterry. That's our initials. VM or Vanessa initials. Well, I was like, the Marin is my name and the V is.

The URL is from.

It's Vanessa.

The olden days before. Before we were doing the business together.

It's VM therapy.com vmtherapy.com mastery. Get that 40% off the sexual mastery package. You'll thank us later.

Oh, you will. And we will put that link in the show notes as well, if you want to check it out. But mastery is spelled M A, S T E R Y.

Well, on that note, that's it for today's episode of Pillow Talks. Thank you so much for listening. Join us again next week where we'll be featuring the the first chapter of our book, Sex Talks, the five conversations that will transform your love life. You're going to get a sneak peek at the audiobook of sex talks recorded by yours truly, Vanessa and Xander.

Our initials, V.M. see you next time.

X.O.X.O.

Gossip Girl.

VM. Vanessa. VM. VXM.

Keep going.

That's all I have.

It'll be the Easter egg at the end. We haven't had an Easter egg at the end of an episode.

I hope you like our big package.

Tell me more about your package. How girthy is your package?

I have no idea. I'm gonna have to measure, like, well, I can't right now. But next time I'm. Next time I'm hard and I happen to think about it, which probably won't ever happen, which is probably why I've never done it. So.

Bye.

Wow. That is. That's a doozy. What a stinker.

You gotta wrap this up.

Yeah. All right. What? What a stinker. You know, I'll come back. I'll come back stronger next time. No, I'm just kidding. That was fun. This is getting so weird. This is getting so weird.

You have to wrap it up.

All right. Thank you so much for listening. I really do appreciate it. I really do hope that you check out our Sexual mastery package because it's super awesome, and I hope you've enjoyed this podcast. Let us know if you want part two and what questions you'd have. Okay, thanks, bye.